Battle for Olympus - Game Over!

[Iecerint]

Vote: AGar[/vote]

Oh man. Brings back memories, etc.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: AGar

I'm playing Dynasty Warriors 7, so I'm a little distracted. ^^;

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@ Catching up ~

I had in my head that SD seems scummy. Then I read Plum's post. UNVOTE: VOTE: SD

Page 7

SD claims Poseidon. I'm actually not really sure that this is a towntell depending upon who made the game. Poseidon, not Hades, is the "mean" God who hates the Greeks. He's on team-Troy during the Trojan war and everything. It's only the Disney version of Hercules that makes Hades into the bad guy.

But it would have to be a fakeclaim, because Greek gods are confirmed town.

AGar's comment is good enough for me for now. UNVOTE:

Mothrax is town. Axelrod is town. Dekes is scummy. I don't get scumvibes from BabySpice, though I acknowledge what people said.

I had totally missed AGAR claiming CD on CMAR. Will ask him to clarify.

I see. It is more like fence-sitting and wanting to get Cassandra points without defending a slot that looked so scummy at the time. I agree with MoI.

Someone will have to show me why diddin is scum. In the meantime, VOTE: Dekes

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Chesskid is town, too.

I'm learnin about placentas now, but I'll look at gandalf's diddin posts tonight.

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If Poseidon is the troubling sort of scum, we'll probably get water-flavored SK skills to go with it. I wouldn't support lynching him today.

That said, Poseidon being a non-town role would not surround me. In the original literature (if not the Disney movie), he's more anti-Greek than any of the other Gods IIRC. Certainly much more than Hades.

/spec

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When I played with BabySpice scum in Stars Aligned III, I thought she was the scummiest player in the universe. I do not get that impression this game, really, so I am not convinced that she is scum.

Other than diddin voting chessKid, I don't know why he's scum, either.

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OK.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LordChronos

I have no experience with scumLC, but I usually get "well-meaning but somewhat ineffectual" from townLC. Upon iso, that feeling is somewhat weak this time.

[Iecerint]

Also, can we do:

Chronopie = Chrono
LordChronos = LC

Because I've actually thought for the past long time that CK wanted to pressure Chronopie. <_<

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SD, given your play and the timing of the the Mod clarification, a reasonable person can infer that you are somewhat likely to be 3rd party and consequently a reasonable, if suboptimal, D1 lynch.

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Unless Poseidon was given as a fakeclaim or there are teamed 3rd parties, I cannot be SD's buddy, and neither can anyone else.

Also, that post doesn't really support foregoing his lynch long-term.

Sounds like you're making stuff up.

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Quadz, which VIs are you talking about?

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Why not LC?

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I mean -- why not join the LC wagon, given your complaints (?) about only VI-type D1 wagons being available?

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I remembered that post, though not who had made it. I would not have assumed that you meant "always" quite as literally as you now indicate, though.

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SD wants desperately to be lynched in spite of his Poseidon claim. <_<

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I'm just making an objective assessment of your behavior. ^^

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Iecerint’s 382 – so you don’t approve of either Top current wagon (Baby or diddin)?. I’ll go back and look at SA3 to see if you actually pushed BabySpice.

I didn't push her, really, but I thought she was scum back then. I think my replace-in posts will reflect it IIRC. The relevant part is that there is a difference in my impression (i.e. whether I pushed my scum reads as a town player in the past seems pretty irrelevant to me, at least).

I have become ambivalent about diddin.

Iecerint’s 387 is pretty scummy. You are using incomplete meta to vote a player? On the heels of Chesskid’s call? Possible distancing noted if LC is scum (which I don't buy)

I didn't like any of the existing wagons, so CK's pressure request looked good to me. The meta information was just a bonus.

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It's more like "I have certain feelings about players. Here are the results of personal introspection into the reasons for those feelings."

I am not ready to lynch LC or call him scum, no. I don't think I have done that anywhere. Correct me if I am mistaken.

I have nothing on LC beyond what I have already stated.

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Not that BS's not somewhat scummy; just that I didn't get the same scummy sirens I got when I read through SA3. I don't know townBS, but it seems like a different person. Same kind of thing as my reasoning to support a wagon on LC.

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I suppose. That's not how the logic plays out, though. The logic is:

A) I know X as Y role.
B) X currently differs from X-as-Y.
C) Therefore, X must be (X-as-Y)'.

And then I'm presuming that the explanation for (X-as-Y)' is different alignment. (Though it could realistically be other things.)

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OMGOMGOMGOMGOGMOGMGOGMG

<3

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It's irrelevant if quadz really does apply the rule consistently, though.

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The number of possible SK slots are smaller than the number of mafia slots. The chance of correctly identifying an SK is very small.

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Especially when you're not even sure it exists.

I just reread diddin in iso, and I have a townier read on him now.

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Although --

diddin, is there a reason you identified several people as scummy-by-way-of-dekes, but never really pressured dekes himself?

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I dunno. I'm making an appeal to probability (minus the "musts," which would make it an actual fallacy). I would prefer to call it "power of logic," but you can pretend it's a fallacy if you want.

@ gandalf -- The situation you are presenting is mistaken not because of the math, but because it ignores the context of the decision. The context dictates that we should lynch, and should do so to a player likely to be scum.

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I just read her in iso again.

I suppose there are few less tragic mislynches, and I can't say that I get a town read from her, but I still get a significantly different vibe than I did in SE3.

Could be because:

A) That was open, this is not.
B) Her role is different.
C) Time has passed.
D) Her avatar is different.
E) She is not mafia this time.

So it's not exactly a very reliable tell, BUT I still think the observation itself holds.

[Iecerint]

1. I am a town fencesitter. You could prove this with science if you wanted to.

2. There is no backing off in that post. I am sticking to my earlier opinion that the BS's are different.

3. Those reasons are not bogus. Those are all reasons that someone's play between games can be different.

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You have a bad memory. I never claimed that BS was playing scummy based on meta. I claimed that BSkum was VERY scummy in SA3, but this BS is not as scummy as that BS was.

In other words, I said the opposite of what you are saying I said.

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Wasn't he planning to go Murderer in SA3? I remember him having funny insanities when he was lynched.

Nothing wrong with the name claim.

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I think BS looks pretty good unless the fakeclaims in this game come in the form of "full" PM fakeclaims. That, or BS is a clever enough scum that I'd be willing to let her live a few days on principle.

Do we know scum daytalk status? That would be a significant interfering factor.

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II) All groups with Quicktopics (QTs) will be able to converse during the NP.

It looks like the rules imply no.

[Iecerint]

Your word is my command.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Quadz

Now I will iso quadz.

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@ LC -- It's the little details like mentioning the rainbow color that make me think it's real.

Now, like I said in that post, it could be that scum get little mini-PMs with their fakeclaims all nicely formatted. If that were the case, the rainbow detail would not impress me. Andy/Faraday/Deathnote mod meta might be relevant. I don't recall how scum fakeclaims worked in GM1, for example.

That, and Iris is a Greek goddess, so she's town given that she's Iris.

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I actually don't think quadz is scum because of the post where he calls you an un-VI.

UNVOTE:

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Yeah, I thought she was failclaiming at first because Iris appears in the Aeneid as a Roman goddess, BUT I guess the Greeks called her that, too. <_<

Preview~Edit: Good point. Flavor for hider claim is needed.

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If Andy has a precedent of supplying fakeclaims with flavor, I am less impressed with BS's claim.

Need Hider flavor from her.

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I'm looking at my own PM, and it makes me want to have more information from BS.

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I'm aware that that post looks weird. I noticed it before I submitted it BUT both lines are still true, so... <_<

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I want her to give me flavor before I say anything else.

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Plum IIRC.

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We don't even know the flavor.

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I think the claim is genuine exactly for the reason that hider really doesn't fit the rainbow.
- If it's a mod given fakeclaim, then since they gave multicolored role name bit, I don't see why they would shaft a good fakeclaim by giving a role that doesn't fit
- If it is something scum came up with, I'd expect that the team which came up with the multicolor bit could do much better than hider

This is wonderful.

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There is no visible double voter?

What's up chrono, one of your scumbuddies a double voter and you forgot that was in the QT and not in the thread?

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(Oh, my role PM had a correction sent to me, specifically adding that I was aligned with the greek pantheon. I assumed being a greed goddess that I was anyway and never questioned or noticed that the line was missing. Combine that with SD's reaction to Charon's message and SD is def not town.)

What do you mean? What does this have to do with what happened to SD? If anything, it would appear to suggest that your PM was associated with the modpost.

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Understood.

Still need normal power flavor.

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Then my impression of the level of your Town play was in error.

I would challenge you to provide an example of a recent game I played with you that did not have the following pattern:

Accurate, equivocal statement -> attak -> self-meta

And if you can give more than one example of me doing it as scum (I vaguely remember doing it ONCE as scum, so I'm saying more than once), that's bonus points for you.

Original statement – Baby I don’t see as scum because she isn’t as scummy as she was in SAIII.

593 statement – I can’t say I get a Town read from her but I still get a different vibe than in SAIII.

In the original you were saying she was Town based on meta. Now you’ve shifted to say that your ‘vibe’ is different but you can’t read her as Town.

I clearly did not say she was town in the first post. This is you misreading or making it up.

Bolded the scum claim. Town wanting to let 'clever scum' live just because they are clever? I don't think so.

You are radically distorting that with your selective bolding. The clear point is that I like her claim unless it was handed to her by the mod, and I wouldn't feel bad about failing to lynch her in the remaining case.

Also the assumption that the Mods didn’t provide fake-claims is hilarious. We’ve already discussed how both Andy and Dana have a history of providing fully formed fake-claims.

I never made this assumption. Hell, the fact that I mention it shows that I'm NOT making that assumption, but taking the possibility into account.

The question was about the quality of the fakeclaims. And I made that post BEFORE we talked about Andy and Dana. That post is what led to bringing that information into the thread.

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Lets see. Either I quote the PM for the flavourful mod kill, or don't

I like Andy and prefer not to have him mod kill me.

You don't have to quote the flavor. You just have to paraphrase it.

[Iecerint]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dekes

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I've just heard back from Andy that I am allowed to paraphrase my own flavor. This means that BS is allowed to paraphrase her flavor.

BS, paraphrase your flavor.

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I just read AV in iso and saw that he had mutterings for/about me:

You've barely mentioned Quadz before Chess tells you to vote him. You only ISO him AFTER the vote? You're not putting out any solid reads and then you just sheep on someone else?

Yes.

WHAAAA. Don't like this voting behaviour. And no new vote?

Nope. Wasn't ready to make one yet at the time.

That, and Iris is a Greek goddess, so she's town given that she's Iris.

FFMFMFMFMF. Haven't multiple people already said fakeclaims are likely? Jeez.

I was one of the players who led the discussion in that direction, so I was obviously aware of fakeclaims being likely.

In fact, this should've been clear to anyone who was reading the very post you just quoted from. Let's look at my entire quote, OK?

@ LC -- It's the little details like mentioning the rainbow color that make me think it's real.

Now, like I said in that post, it could be that scum get little mini-PMs with their fakeclaims all nicely formatted. If that were the case, the rainbow detail would not impress me. Andy/Faraday/Deathnote mod meta might be relevant. I don't recall how scum fakeclaims worked in GM1, for example.

That, and Iris is a Greek goddess, so she's town given that she's Iris.

So I basically spend MOST OF THE POST (!!!) talking about fakeclaims, and then you selectively quote that last sentence and pretend that I'm ignoring the possibility of fakeclaims? LOLWUT?

Yeah. This isn't even PRETENDING not to be a misrep, especially given the little rumbles of anti-Iec rhetoric elsewhere.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: AV

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I've been a town hider who doesn't die if he hides behind scum.

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And refuses to claim flavor or ask the Mod what happens if you get Roleblocked even

after

you claimed?

Yeah. There's a difference.

I agree with this.

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-|Attention|-

The fervor of the discussion roared as assorted Gods and Goddesses heckled over the day's occurances. In a rare moment of silence, an unseen speaker's voice reaches your ears...

" "Messenger makes a lot of sense for Iris. As opposed to rainbow-hider...
Baby, can you confirm yourself via your special power?"

One shot super power, yes."

O.o

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Here you go.

I was the Higgs Boson, a Hider. XD

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I wasn't "aware" (?) of the fakeclaims, as we hadn't talked about Andy's mod meta yet. I asked about Andy's mod meta literally in the sentences before the one you quoted, though, IIRC, so your insinuation that I was ignoring the possibility of fakeclaims was bogus.

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VOTE: AV

Same as yesterday.

Don't miss the new lynch thresholds for today. The second wagon will be auto-lynched when the first one goes.

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I'm assuming 2 scumteams with diddin as a vig/SK-planning-to-fakeclaim-vig kill.

Also, I don't know why town would kill Plum or SB.

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(It looks like there are 16 alive, so it would be 9 to lynch, but it's instead 7 to lynch.)

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Glancing through your iso, I think the only other player I'd get excited about would be Chronopie.

Also, Alma, you haven't posted yet, but please nameclaim.

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I'm trying to determine whether:

A) You're scum
B) You're 3rd party
C) Shenanigans

And I think a nameclaim is the most low-risk way to get information that will help me to determine as much.

Name only, please.

@ Quadz -- Quiet.

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Quadz, if there are nonspecific reasons for AGM *per se* to forego nameclaiming, specify as much.

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Well, forget it, then. That's as informative a response as any.

One moment, folks...

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Town -- 100% Greeks
Mafia -- 100% Not Greeks
3rd Party -- Could be anything

That is how you translate that.

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Hold the nameclaim for the moment if that leads you to change your mind. I'm waiting on Andy.

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Do, however, comment on whether that information *would* have been sufficient for you to produce a nameclaim had I not just asked you to wait.

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OK, I've heard from Andy.

AGM, I suggest you nameclaim. Last chance.

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(Also, it looks like your find indicates that there aren't 2 mafia factions sooo /fail on my part. Every large I've been in since forever has had 2 scumteams.)

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Very well.

I noticed something in the midst of writing this, though...soooo...well, you'll see.

Claim: Dionysus, Greek God of Wine and Ecstasy

. Text color is lavender.

My abilities are:

Normal: Ecstasy -- I target someone at night and get their alignment (though that's not *quite* what happened -- see below). However, sanity is not confirmed. Flavor is that because of the ecstatic effects, the results may not be reliable.

Super: Drunkenness -- I learn whether a player is Greek Pantheon-aligned or not 100%. Flavor should be obvious. Sanity is 100% confirmed. This can be done at any time, but only once per game.

(NB: That this is a large part of why I was inclined to believe BabySpice, but wanted her to give me flavor. My abilities don't really make sense for Dionysus (minus the sanity being funky, which is why I didn't notice the non-match at first if you go back and read D1), but they do fit once flavor is added.)

N1 I

targeted AV with Ecstasy

. For some reason, I ended up getting

results on AlmamasterGM

, and I had to look things up to find that he'd replaced RangerOfTheNorth. My result indicated that he was

Lord Jesus Christ, God of the Christians

. However, because of the weird targeting results, I wasn't sure about things, so I tried to ask AGM about his name in a way that a 3rd party claim would be a way out. That way, I could confirm the sane result.

On the other hand, if AV was the REAL Lord Jesus Christ (and my insanity was just a factor of the claimed target, for example), that would lead to a different interpretation. And since we get 2 lynches today, I decided to use Drunkenness on AV.

AV is 100% mod-confirmed not to be aligned with the Greek Pantheon.

I thought this might give me his name, too, since Ecstasy randomly did, but no dice. Still, it's not all bad, right?

Given all THAT, my best guess is that AV is scum and scum busdrove him with AGM-nonscum (though not necessarily AGM-town) on the grounds that AV was relatively scummy yesterday and liable to be vigged.

TL;DR

AurourusVox is sanity-confirmed non-town.
AGM is sanity-dependently identified as Lord Jesus Christ, God of the Christians.

One of the players we lynch today will be AV. I'm actually inclined to lynch someone like Chrono as the second on the grounds that the implicit AGM-AV busdrive implies that they do not share alignments, and AV was the more obvious player for scum to busdrive with another player (given that either one of them were scum, I mean), so I think he's the mafia-scum of the two. And it's also possible that AGM isn't even Jesus, anyway.

AGM, if you could confirm/deny the Lord Jesus Christ result, that would be helpful.

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Here is my suggestion:

If AGM claims Jesus, we lynch AV and Chronopie. We can have a nice debate over the second one though idc. I will consider AGM confirmed 3rd party.

If AGM claims not Jesus, we lynch him after I get a handle on how the sanity manipulation works unless

A) it turns out that sanity was likely messing with things (e.g. I find out that Ecstasy doesn't normally give me actual roles) or
B) the real JC flips.

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EBWOP: To clarify, AV + Chrono sounds good to me in the latter case, too. I'm open to other 2nd lynches, though.

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Two reasons (one is fake!):

A) Because if I determine that sanity issues were unlikely to be in play last night, you are 3rd party and a minimally tragic mislynch.

B) I was constructing the scenario such that it would appear beneficial for you to claim Jesus so that you would be more likely to do so.

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~UPDATE!~

Andy just send me a PM saying that my Ecstasy ability's explanation was mistaken. It should have read that the rolename would be given. The "alignment" indication was mis-edited. Probably an earlier version of the role that they changed.

I DEMAND BONUS POWERS, ANDY! SABOTAGE! <_<

I would be a bit annoyed if he really chose insane results on the fly like that, BUT it does seem plausible...and since you replaced in, it's not that he tailor-made the role for you.

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There's still the possibility that he deliberately asked you to replace in for Ranger because of the name of the role itself, though.

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Were you on the Replacements list before joining the game? I've noticed that you're not crossed off of the list per se, though ooba isn't either.

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I was told explicitly that you were the new target. It's not the case that I just invented you as the alternate target. That's what LC means.

@ Ooba -- Did something similar to what AGM is describing happen to you when you joined?

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I doubt Ecstasy is totally random. There'd be no reason for them to fuss about alignment/rolename as what was given if that were the case (as the typo implies they did), unless Andy just wanted to make more work for himself for no reason (except for fun in-jokes).

Not saying *THIS* case is necessarily accurate; just saying that I am skeptical of your implicit thesis that it is a useless ability.

P-Edit: Why would you assume that AV is responsible for the busdrive...? O.o

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That is all correct, except that I think a busdrive is much more likely than a redirect on the grounds that:

A) Redirecting me to AGM makes no sense, even if people thought I was scum and
B) scummy AVscum being busdriving with non-scum makes more sense

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Every single role in the original Greek Mythology was overpowered, so that is affecting how I interpret my role. LOTS of themes from that game have been recycled.

(NB: That game was balanced by having a gillion scum.)

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For example:

In Greek Mythology, I was a sanity-confirmed Cop-Mason whose Super could skip Days and whose mason's Super could skip Nights AND deny scumkills AND I could also forego investigations and become bulletproof AND other toys. I was an extreme case by far, but nonetheless...

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I don't think JCAGM is scum-scum. No chance at all. Busdriving scum with themselves makes no sense. I suppose it's possible that the ecstasy also randomizes targets as part of the weirdness, but at that point it's all called into doubt, anyway.

NB: This town is not permitted to lynch AV all the way until we have a second lynch victim lined up 100%.

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I was thinking Yahweh, but that's because my mind was in Judeo-Christian land.

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Oh my. Oh. Uh.

Huh.

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@ SD -- I do not know about the 3 kills, but I know that Andy's post refers to *the* mafia faction.

@ AV -- I already responded to that yesterday. I in fact mentioned fakeclaims in the same post you quoted from. That's why that post was an obvscum move.

My super power is not a night ability. My super power can be used at any time. I used it D2, not N1.

@ Axel -- Andy's PM did lampshade that it was a different target. I see no reason to clarify flavor, come to think of it. Suffice it to say that I don't think it would be relevant to deciding who the culprit was at this time.

A regular redirect doesn't make sense because they'd have to randomly guess that I was investigative, and then redirect me. It's much more likely that they used a busdrive to protect AV.

The point of that post is that, given that AGM is Jesus, since he replaced into the slot, AGM's meta experience with Andy becomes harder to discount. I think you'll understand if you work through it a little.


Not sure why Axel is already framing AV's claimed ability as if it will fail (ala "don't target a secondary lynch suspect").

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It would not really surprise me if AVscum had a kill as his superpower. It would also not surprise me if another scum had a janitor/framer role as a superpower. This is just speculation, but that's the only motive I can see in AV's behavior. That, or he just wants to WIFOM us by "clearing" a player.

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1. Did Chrono just claim scum?

2. How are Dekes and SD interpreting one another's claims? I would have inferred a more dramatic fight between them.

3. Is AGar posting on Dekes...? I'm very confused.

4. I don't understand CK's tell on ooba. I do think ooba may be scum -- namely, he's not really doing the kind of coalition-building I see him do when he's town -- but the tell is...assuming oobaScum AVtown? AKA Something literally impossible?*

* -- Unless someone used a mass-target-fail super ability that was active DURING D2, which is bogus.

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Thanks, Chrono, that makes much more sense.

New thing that makes no sense:

Meanwhile, SD says he jailkept Dekes, who says he has confirmation that he wasn't (due to the doublevoting abilities of AGar.)

Where do we have evidence that Dekes was not jailkept (other than his claim that he was confirmed not to have been)? Chrono was the one who made AGar a doublevoter....

[Iecerint]

1. Are you catching up...?

2. Ranger = AGM

3. How did you know that...? O.o

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He's implicitly claiming messing with my normal ability, not my special one. It wouldn't have to be his special.

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Did you redirect or busdrive?

Explain your superpower.

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Why did you redirect me? Why to AGM?

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I'm glad you didn't redirect me to diddin. That would've been awkward. <_<

OK, fair enough.

That destroys ALL of my AGMtown rhetoric, unless gandalf is scum.

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I think that's only true if there is a chance my ability was tampered with. But since it's an instant super power, I doubt it.

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I think Andy is a disciple of the sort of modders who have an irrational (IMO) fear of giving scum that kind of role. But idk.

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Yeah, I agree with you. I've seen scum roles that work the way gandalf's does.

If this were Kise's game, I would call him obvscum.

But it's not. So I'm more

ambivalent

indifferent.

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On the other hand, this is indirectly DeathNote's game.

So yeah.

BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY I can see townGandalf redirecting me, and the benefits of exposing his ability like this are pretty marginal, especially since AGM already looked somewhat iffy.

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Since he's already answered, Kise's SE2 and ReaperCharlie's Brave and Beautiful mafia both had scumroles that worked similar to yours.

And I've played a game where scum had a public dayvig in lieu of a nightkill (Empking's (I think?) SuperUPick), though that was a pretty extreme situation.

I still think you're town, but it's plausible for someone to be ambivalent about the role itself. Not saying that person is necessarily CK, but ye know.

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AND CAN SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME HOW THE FUCK GANDALF IS CONFIRMEDTOWN AND WHY WE ARE NOT JUST LYNCHING THE SHIT OUT OF THE PERSON WHO WE HAVE A CONFIRMED GUILTY ON?

The first part you have to feel in your heart.

The second is because we are obligated to use 2 lynches today, not just one.

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Ooba, I think his implication is that 3 all together implies that you got lazy in the process of assigning players to categories and threw those 3 all into the Scum category at the same time.

I wonder if anyone other than you responded to my AV-is-obvscum post yesterday....

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OK, nevermind. I guess I gave him too much credit. <_<

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I don't think so...the order doesn't mean anything...any given order is just as likely as any other order....

I guess if you think Andy isn't very good at statistics and would deliberately subvert that for aesthetics, it might mean something.

But I don't think you can realistically attack ooba for failing to know about Andy's heart.

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If anything, I think scum are more likely to construct lists using arbitrary rules like the order in which players are presented. I know I do that more as scum ("Gosh, Town looks full. This one'd better be Neutral...").

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I think I was unclear. This is what I meant:

Town who does this: Puts people into categories

Scum who does this: Makes it prety

Ooba did not make it pretty. He fits the town pattern more, deliberate subversions notwithstanding.

[Iecerint]

All combinations of lottery numbers are equally likely. You fail statistics forever. This is a waste of time.

If you REALLY want to worry about this, the question is whether you think Andy would deliberately subvert it or not. But even then it's not an oobaScumtell.

[Iecerint]

THATS NOT HOW BRAINS ARE WIRED

I'M NOT ARGUING STATISTICS EHRE
Im ARGUIGN HOW THE HUMAN BRAIN NOTICES PATTERNS JESUS FUCKING CHRIST IS NOBODY READING WHAT IM WRITING?

So why do you think the "scum" human brain is more likely to present 3 scums in a row?

You're pointing out something benignly odd and then (implicitly) claiming that it's the most important thing going on in this game.

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I was correct on BS and S_B, and yet ooba attempts to paint me as this huge scummy MISLYNCH BRINGER FROM HELL

This much I agree with. I wish you'd voted AV with he and I yesterday, though, in light of your reported distaste for the lead wagons.

I know you were preferring Chrono/Chronos, but I dun even know why you would suspect LC other than PoE...

[Iecerint]

Chrono/Gandalf/AV all being scum together sounds too risky for D2.

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Re: LC, I think he's been the same way in Greek Mythology and the recently ended Follow The Cop...Or Not games.

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BabySpice had self-voted and refused to give flavor. It makes it hard to interpret late pressure given her flip.

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@ MoI et al re: Lynch 2

I have my last final on friday. I'll give the thread a reread after it.

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1. Daw, I like ooba.

2. I suspect scum super shenanigans BUT we'll see.

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ONE EXAM DOWN. ONE TO GO.

I'M ALMOST READY TO PLAY AGAIN GUYS.

SORRY ANDY. <3

[Iecerint]

MY EXAMS ARE DONE AND I JUST DID ALL MY EVALUATIONS GOD.

OK now I'll read and post and then I'll play Mortal Kombat forever.

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So not much has happened in the past few days.

Gandalf's behavior is odd. I had forgotten about the SD-is-SK mantra from yesterday. That would indeed make the obvious move SD->X rather than Iec->X. The explanation that he learned that SD was not an SK *after* the events of N1 also makes no sense.

The bizarreness of his sundry claims about the situation with Dekes is matched only by Dekes apparently not finding gandalf's claims very troubling.

Dekes, have you made comments about gandalf somewhere, other than to deny having been roleblocked?

[Iecerint]

The ooba post AGar quoted makes perfect sense to me.

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Looking at the peaks of the BS/diddin/ShadowDancer wagons and eliminating town players and players I think are town (MoI, via vibe; and Axel, because his early comment about his role not matching his name fits with his interpretation of BS's claim; and AGar, because I think the situation with SD was high-risk) gives:

BabySpiceWagons

LordChronos, Shadow Dancer, mothrax, Gemini
LordChronos, mothrax, ooba
LordChronos, mothrax, Shadow Dancer, quadz08

I think the people who enabled gandalf to put her in front of everyone else at the end aren't counted here...

ShadowDancer Wagon

gandalf5166, chesskid3

(only 2!)

Diddin wagons

Dekes, Gemini, gandalf5166, Chronopie
Dekes, Gemini, Chronopie, chesskid3

I tried doing this with just BabySpice earlier, but I didn't get anywhere. <_<

[Iecerint]

Give flavor on your normal.

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He's confirmable town, and why the fuck would scum have a power that allows two lynches?

This much is my thought, especially since the details of the ability are expressly communicated in-thread. I think a scum version of them would be more likely to keep that information hidden.

That said, I'm a little surprised at the utter lack of flavor for his abilities. If anyone else has that kind of circumstance, I'm inclined to request a softclaim of "also very limited flavor." If Quadz is scum, scum already appear aware that this type of claim is okay OR they won't try it again, so I think the harms are pretty minimal.

I also agree that Hellfire flavor makes no sense.

[Iecerint]

That does appear to have been a bit premature...

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Lynch2: mothrax

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Your unflagging attitude toward him seems a bit disconnected from the thread itself. It makes you seem like a lyncher, someone with personal feelings against him, or someone trying to distract from other things rather than a scumhunter.

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Consider also the timing, though...he basically brought it up as soon as people started questioning his townieness, whereas it's not necessarily any of town's business where the doublevote came from...

I am picking up ooba-ellipses....

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So you think he is scum/3rd party trying to get town points then by making AGar double voter?
What do you mean by ooba-ellipses? Do you mean that you think there is something missing from his argument.

I agree that making town a double-voter is, on average, a towntell.

However, it is not always that big a deal early in the game.

Moreover, the circumstances under which Chrono revealed that he was responsible for the double-vote are suspect IMO.

I just mean that ooba has a habit of putting ellipses everywhere.

[Iecerint]

I would like MoI to clarify/speak to Axel's claim that MoI is using his town meta as support that he is scum.

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There's no reason for a town player to ask if anyone got a grace-related PM if the clear result of the PM would be a double vote. There was also no reason to announce that he was the source of the double vote. The best explanation for his lampshading his double-vote giving to a townie is that he wanted to prevent a wagon on himself via the implications of being a double-vote granter who gave it to town. This impulse is scummy because he's disproportionately concerned about preventing wagons relative to avoiding nightkills.

I didn't bring it up earlier because it was certainly true that giving a double vote to likely town is a weak towntell...and doublevote-givers do, via site meta, tend not to be scum.

So there are metagame reasons for Chrono to be not-scum, but I think Chrono's implicit attempt to take advantage of this metagame reasons was scummy. Overall, it's an IGMEOY kind of thing at this point.

/drunkpost

[Iecerint]

I'm happy that AV decided to claim scum.

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Well, that makes me feel pretty good about lynching ConSpiracy. It may also tell us that the fakeclaims are not full fakeclaims in this game, since it makes it sound like he was just given a name (s/p not reading enough of the thread to see the other claims, maybe).

Then it sounds like it'll be AV+Cons.

P-Edit: Forgot about CK also claiming that...

[Iecerint]

ConSpiracy -- Is there any chance that you were redirected/etc.?

AGar could perhaps y/n/m on the ConS claim...

Still pretty happy with Cons/AV as the lynches as things stands. And I'm already voting AV.

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I was operating on the assumption that everyone has some kind of power...I guess he could only have a Passive or something, though...fair enough...

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Hey, isn't ConS's super kind of the same as what AGM claimed, albeit framed differently?

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Oh, I misread Consp's a little. OK.

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It's not clear how earnest CK's Chrono/LC attacks have been, anyway, since neither of those players have been under much scrutiny.

Best CK towntell I can think of was D1 when he thought BS was a mislynch pretty aggressively. That seemed real to me, and I remember thinking the same thing. Could've just thought the lynch didn't need his help, etc.

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I'd say the chances of AGM being killed tonight are pretty low. My result on him is mislynch bait pending future results if he's town.

w/e tho

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I actually noticed the color claim being a little weird, too. Wouldn't have said anything as I kinda agree with Magna... <_<

But hey.

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So there are 2 scumteams with 3 apiece?

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I understand that he's not to be trusted. I'm just trying to determine whether he deliberately made that implication. ^^~

Ah well. Just waiting for everyone to get with the program and lynch AV and Consp.

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He's not flailing at this point. He's trying to entertain us.

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Married women.*

My role was god of "Wine and Ecstasy," which was also a little weird.

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OK GUYS GOGOGO.

AV CAN HELP TOO.

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Guess 4.5 hours of the middle of the night have passed. There is no excuse.

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Guys*

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I targeted Chronopie last night and found that he was

Shiva, the Destroyer

.

The player who got the doublevote from him last night should probably make comments about the flavor that granted it to him.

[Iecerint]

(Err, I meant "yesterday," but I suppose last night works, too.)

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I doubt they're both accurate, unless AGM is 3rd party. Which, I mean. Could be.

I think targeting anyone can confirm my ability; I just need to get a Greek God result once (that matches) to indicate that it's sometimes correct. I suppose there's a case to be made for using it on leaning-town roles for that very reason, but its ideal use depends upon how the insane part of it works.

LC should claim castrator/not.

[Iecerint]

Oh. I see.

I've been assuming that each *individual* use of ecstasy may or may not be an accurate rolename.

You seem to be assuming that the ability itself is consist with whatever sanity.

[Iecerint]

I call BS.

You think I made it up...?

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@ MoI -- I am in possession of a quite (very? i suppose it may be very?) useful item, but it is not one that is used in the way you describe (i.e. to replace a night action).

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I think there are too many players for all the town to be in the pantheon...? Particularly when you figure in fakeclaims...

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My result was on Chronopie, not LC.

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The item you sent me is a dayvig, not a night-vig.

So we basically get two lynches today, too. ^^

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Lightning Bolt. It's the same item Jack killed me with the the original GM mafia. <_<

[Iecerint]

I was going to ask whether he really had to do it in-thread...

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I had actually assumed that the Egyptians were the castrators until people decided that Egyptians did that. Fits with Set's Fate and all that if Horus is the last Egyptian.

Which Egyptian god turns people into sand?

[Iecerint]

Like a rolename cop, or an ability cop?

[Iecerint]

Also, if you've an investigative primary ability, I hope it's pretty clear that you should go ahead and claim what's up, as you've kinda softclaimed it.

Ignore this post at your discretion, obviously, but ye know.

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I trust you guys to make the best decision...I think ooba makes me the most nervous as a longshot scum, and I think gandalf, if town, has made some unusual choices.

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@ Chrono -- Do you think I made up being redirected from AV to AGM D1, only to have gandalf claim having done the redirecting, too? Does not make sense.

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I think it's a little weird that there is no consensus at all about who to rolecop and certain players are nonetheless freaking out about the possibility of being rolecopped. <_<

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Yeah chesskid + LC scumteam makes perfect sense. chesskid town would go OMG ROLECOP ME THEN ILL BE CONFIRMED TOWN AND YOU'LL GET SLAPPED IN THE FACE WITH A FISH.

chesskid scum goes WHOOPS ME AND MY BUDDY ARE ABOUT TO GET OWNED

This sounds about right.

[Iecerint]

I was referring narrowly to AGM's observation.

I doubt it's 4/4, unless AV did that on purpose.

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I mean, I doubt it's a 4/4 set-up that is now 4/2 s/p two Egyptian deaths.

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I don't think MoI is scum. If he is, I would be OK with losing to him.

Gandalf is also pretty much confirmed redirecter.

[Iecerint]

Any objections to killing Dekes apart from Gandalf?

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Gemini -- up or down on whether Dekes is a Watcher Mason of some kind, regardless of whether SB is mentioned?

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Yeah, I missed her posts on this page.

One weird thing about Dekes's claim is that Apollo and Artemis had their Mason-hood *AS* their normal power in the original game. Also, I think if Andy were going to pair Artemis and Apollo again, he would have made Artemis the goddess of the moon (as in the original game) to emphasize the pairing with Apollo.

One weird thing about Gemini's Dekes claim is that making a "factional" kill implies that all of a given faction have the same flavor.

P-edit -- I do not understand gandalf's behavior at all. Dekes has been scummy since D1....

Also, I think waiting to kill is silly because we have the daykill at present.

I think we're still waiting on Chrono to come up with his stuff....

[Iecerint]

@Iec - can you hold of 24 hours to let me review the ISOs when I have time?

Yes.

[Iecerint]

OK.

Lightning Bolt: Dekes

[Iecerint]

/dances

Is Chrono going to find a scum, too, or was he just joking about that? I didn't really follow.

[Iecerint]

And BTW, after thinking about it, I realized that if I really were scum whiteknighting for Dekes, there are two possibilities: Gemini was NOT on my team, so I knew she was town and presumably telling the truth or Gemini WAS on my team, so I knew she was scum and lying and would be lynched if anybody listened to me even a little. In either case, why the hell would I defend Dekes?

This actually makes some sense, provided that Dekes wasn't misleading us and you're a lingering Egyptian.

Then again, I think we can only explain gandalf's behavior toward Dekes as poor play regardless of his alignment.

[Iecerint]

WHOA, Gemini is a doublevoter.

When did that happen?

[Iecerint]

I BET I KNOW.

[Iecerint]

Ooba. <_<

Yo Chrono, why Gemini over me? Cuz I targeted your last night, and/or for other reasons?

Put another way: is that the only specific reason you think iffy things about me?

[Iecerint]

Oh. I missed that.

[Iecerint]

Then you had to send it in via PM...?

I'm a little sketched out by the feint tbh. Sounds like your super really might have a different name. I think I could use mine either via PM or in-thread... <_<

[Iecerint]

I've asked Andy whether he would've allowed me to do that with my super. Waiting 4 reply.

[Iecerint]

Andy said that, with an exception namely in the case of Quadz, Super abilities are in general private actions and hence must be sent via a private message. Non-PM'd supers would have no effect.

This departs from my own role PM, but Andy already told me that I got an old version of mine by mistake (i.e. when the rolename/alignment confusion with my normal happened), so maybe the discrepancy is attached to that idk.

Anyway, it sounds like what Chrono claims to have done would be OK with most supers, including mine.

[Iecerint]

Ooh, interesting re: Eris. I hadn't noticed. The other female gods have always flipped goddess. ^^

[Iecerint]

HI NACHO.

ARE YOU THOR?

THOR IS TOWN BTW YOU SHOULD CLAIM IT.

[Iecerint]

^ Scumclaim

[Iecerint]

But obviously once revealed, from the scum side of the equation taking us down first would be the only way to salvage something out of the situation."

Only applies if it's 4/4 and gandalf is a 4th Egyptian.

I think my ability would work normally if it were really 4/4...

[Iecerint]

Should be a Gemini quote. <_<

[Iecerint]

I think it'd make perfect sense for the castrator to be Egyptian inasmuch as Egyptian gods love castrating their enemies (e.g. Set).

[Iecerint]

(Not that I have any idea who was turning folk to sand.)

[Iecerint]

Is there anyone who's been ambivalent about gandalf or thinks he is town?

[Iecerint]

Well. I've probably been ambivalent, come to think of it. I am always ambivalent. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

[Iecerint]

Messanger claim is kinda fishy... I have to check for Ooba's reaction on Iris' messanger claim...

He thought she was telling the truth along with me IIRC. So that makes it even fishier.

Also, I'm not sure why he just claimed. I guess because there was massclaim chatter earlier? His claim doesn't really do anything except help to explain why he won't be killed. <_<

[Iecerint]

What did daytalk have to do with anything? Was it the fact that Hider was just utterly bizarre?

[Iecerint]

See. I remember /outguessing Hermes as a fakeclaim when BS claimed Iris and I thought she was town.

<_<

[Iecerint]

He didn't really know she was town either way, though. He'd know about the 2 scumteam status just from the size of his own group. I think BS *was* likely town for other reasons, though.

That said, I am inclined to agree with your broader point, even though I hate lynching ooba because I love him forever.

[Iecerint]

You didn't know that Iris was also a messenger of the Gods...?

[Iecerint]

And with LC's neighbourhood claim it is pretty obvious that you are Hades.

/slap

/slapslapslap

<_<

[Iecerint]

Nothing.

I agree that Nacho needs to claim NAO.

[Iecerint]

Gosh. The speed with which that brought LC to the game was eerie.

Has LC claimed?

[Iecerint]

yesyes rite; i remember now.

[Iecerint]

I know we got images with fakeclaims in Plum's Lay of Leithian, and I think Andy co-modded the follow-up LotR game.

We should've interrogated scum in the past. Ah well.

[Iecerint]

One other thing about Gandalf is that I was told my redirection. This jives less well with a scum redirector.

I'm really ambivalent. I'll go with this.

Vote: LC

I'll switch to Gandalf if necessary.

[Iecerint]

No one counter-claimed his idea of being the reason for the death stages, though...meh...

Unvote

Vote: Nacho

Will step in for gandalf if necessary.

[Iecerint]

1. I didn't say it proved he was town.
2. I think it's more consistent with a town claim because, positing that it's not associated with him or a scumfriend, he ran the risk of being counterclaimed about the significance of the lists.

Granted, that he was in a pretty bad situation, so there's that.

[Iecerint]

The wording of his pre-claim stipulates that he's the reason for the multiple death stages. Strong choice of words.

It's possible that there'd be more than one list-user, but I think it's still a claim that puts himself out there more than is strictly necessary if fake.

[Iecerint]

I wouldn't, as either alignment, though I suppose I'm really careful about things like that.