Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[ooba]

/confirm

[ooba]

Vote: Porochaz

This is whom I would have recruited ..

[ooba]

Actually,

Mr Flay, could we get a confirmation over wether someone was recruited?

What is the purpose of this day, if otherwise?

@Cobbler, if roles were what they were going for, Corrupt Cop seems to be a good choice. Or go for the Vig type roles - Pharmacist, Dock Worker, Factory Worker and even Corrupt Cop seems a good fit here.

[ooba]

@Cobbler, if roles were what they were going for, Corrupt Cop seems to be a good choice. Or go for the Vig type roles - Pharmacist, Dock Worker, Factory Worker and even Corrupt Cop seems a good fit here.

See last couples of posts.

Read your post on Albert\Kinetic not being able to recruit pregame and just want the town to destroy itself if that's what you mean.

- Question if why would Flay-mod design a game in such a manner that it's an all town slug fest in the first day?
- Plus White flag rules denote they've already lost if that's the case

[ooba]

I'm still thinking it's very possible they didn't get to recruit pregame as per what I said earlier.

Starting the game with pre-decided slots as recruits doesn't seem like much fun for the CRs .. As a mod, I would have preferred to give them a choice ..

Let's give opinions about AS FEW PLAYERS AS POSSIBLE to give the mobsters as few hints as to where we're collectively heading. And let's be unpredictable, too.

I agree with the above - will keep cards close to my chest this game. I haven't played with the Magister. xvart\Hero are good picks.

Vote: xvart

[ooba]

As for saying that Kinetic and I had already recruited at the beginning of pre-game, it's very simple...we want first dibs. Even in a pool of 25 players, we wouldn't delay our choice to risk being the late end of a doublepicking.

-I don't think Flay would have made it such that doublepicking = auto loss for the second guy
- On the other hand, telling the second person about the double picking and allowing them to pick again is actually an advantage (since they would know the recruit of the first guy)
So the most probable pregame pick method was : Both of you send in your choices, if they don't clash, those are your recruits - otherwise repeat.

[ooba]

I thought we weren't mentioning town reads?

The vibe I get from his xvart's posts here are different from earlier games I've played with him. Not sure if Ley of Leithan would have that big an impact as Succession I on memory and he was recruited N1 there so trusting this read.

Unvote

Vote: Seraphim

[ooba]

I really cannot understand the attacks on Cobblerfone. Do people really think recruiters would have targeted him? No offense to Cobbler, but why would I back someone untested .. It's been two months since he joined the site ..

Cobblerfone - 4 (xvart, Flameaxe, bvoigt,

Porochaz

)

Just making a call on the two(?) recruits for D1 - Poro and Sera ..

DGB - support me on Sera - call it a strong vibe ..

[ooba]

So him claiming unrecruitable is either a "good scum play", or it's a "REALLY bad town play", and that makes me suspicious.

I'm just coming from the PoV of the recruiters, given the choice between
a) Recruiting relative inexperience and having "claim unrecruitable" as a get of jail free card (AND)
b) Recruiting the elite (you for example)
Choice b always beats Choice a because of the added risk of the inexperienced player really fumbling it up.

I think Cobbler is more scum than town at this moment, his claim does not make any sense as town, and I don't think anyone town,

especially a newbie would claim that fast under very little pressure.

Disagree with this part .. This question to Tanarin too - You've never seen newbies claim with just one or two votes on them?

DGB - support me on Sera - call it a strong vibe ..

Manana, manana...

Does xvart specifically getting lynched today an integral part of tomorrow's plan? While I see the merits in limiting discussion to as few players as possible - Poro, Sera also fit the middle-of-the-line (Good play and don't get lynched often type players) criteria and have pinged my scumdar. Why ignore them?

Cult Recruiters are people too

This made me laugh ..

I also want people to comment on what people would have happend should ABR and Kinetic both picked the same person N1.

I've already posted my thoughts on this ..

[ooba]

Re-read the last couple of pages - I change my mind about cobbler but had already written down a response to Flameaxe and did not feel like deleting it ..

---

@Flameaxe: I know I'm projecting but I think it's a fair assumption to make D1.

I went to succession and read it again. Note Me=Weird replaced Seraphim only on D1. Seraphim was the choice of both recruiters N0. *

While I won't exclude anybody from being a possible recruit tomorrow (because I can see myself recruiting inexperience if most people have good-null vibes on that person on D1), I just don't see either person recruiting cobbler pre-game.

If I am wrong about this, you can rant at me postgame

---

*398: Cobbler went to look this up??
- You know I can buy cobbler claiming with not much pressure on him (like Yos calls it "a VI situation")
- But looking up Succession for something

that wasn't specifically directed at him

- Both put together makes me rethink that people might be right Cobbler scum and about CR coaching from the background

408 - "I only read up to where Seraphim got replaced out in Succession I" - him posting a possible explanation on why he went back to that game because otherwise it just looks too damn scummy
Cobbler:

"Let me last at least one night"

---

419 @Zed - "I believe Cobblerfone's claim for the reason that Herodotus pointed out."
436 @Her - See it in this post: "Regarding cobbler's claim, I remember seeing it as him responding to the issue of being sure that xvart was town because cobbler was guessing xvart might be unrecruitable because they had the same role name."
What do you think about the fact that it might be their pregame plan if any of the other teamsters get's wagoned?

---

Unvote. Vote: cobbler

[ooba]

@Zdenek
Agree on the long term implications but cobbler looks like someone who can handle himself when pressured (Have to read his previous game because ABR said he read everybody's previous game before making a choice)

---

In one phrase, why would ABR and Kinetic have picked Cobbler?

WIFOM. And the fact that "They would have never picked a inexperienced person" argument would put us off lynching them ..

---

The point of trying to outguess the CR's is to find the scum, and it might work because the CR's are rational humans.

Get your facts right - The CRs are Cylons.

---

Upon serious consideration, I have concluded that ooba is too lynchalicious to make a safe recruit.

People find me scummy in general in all my games, but the times I've been actually lynched is low ..

---

If a CR chooses someone who doesn't play well as scum, that player may screw up and

make a scumslip

or be caught by people focusing on behavioural scumhunting.

The unrecruitable claim didn't really trouble me that much about cobbler but this phrase ("Let me last at least one night") did - Skruffs said this when he was an SK in random mafia three .. I also remember DGB scum wanting to last another day so that she can become a treestump ..

[ooba]

I believe neither recruiter would have recruited Yos - but both are paranoid about the fact that the other could have recruited Yos .. So will definitely use their recruits to see if Yos was recruited or to lynch him ..

Yosarian2 - 4 (Magister Ludi, populartajo, Cobblerfone, Zdenek, Katsuki)

I'll need to read the Magister'+tajos' posts again ..

[ooba]

@Zenek: Yes, because I think both recruits would have attacked Yos at least once in the day. And no, I don't think he's recruited.

Still haven't gotten around to reading Magister's and Ludi's posts yet ..

[ooba]

@Zenek: Yes, because I think both recruits would have attacked Yos at least once in the day. And no, I don't think he's recruited.

Still haven't gotten around to reading Magister's and Ludi's posts yet ..

I think, upon close and careful consideration, that you'll find that Magister Ludi is only one player.

Meant tajo ..

[ooba]

Posting in a few .. Think I've found scum .. Just catching up with what I missed from my last post ..

[ooba]

I support Batt in that governor on xvart. Made sense - xvart was town and game was stagnating ...

NS reaction to it does seem over the top.

@LL - DGB and Batt aren't scum - at least not this day ..

---

My theories on the game:
- You've already heard my Yos theory. Both recruiters didn't recruit him and are secretly paranoid that the other did. So you can see possible recruitees attacking Yos at least once in the day.
- Each recruit in the game is probably going to be projecting with his scumhunting here. By "projecting" I mean, he will make similar assumptions about the other recruitee. In short, if an player was recruited - he\she would mostly be focusing on similar players with the same experience and playstyle. For example, if I was a recruit, I would focus on players who have been here for a couple of years, don't get lynched that often, post enough so that they don't called for lurking and whose posts generally make sense.

Went through both ISOs - I don't see Magister as a recruit - like to echo the question from Zednek to DGB.

populartajo is scum. 16 posts ..
- Strong Yos paranoia
- Players attacked {Hero, Yos, Spring, Sera, Tan}
- While a townie might try and figure out who's interactions with ABR\Kinetic appear scummy, I see NO reason why the following questions would need to be asked:

recruiters, who of you picked hero and who of you picked yosa?

tanarin, who recruited you?

See town really don't care whose recruit we lynch as long we lynch a recruit. This is poptajo acting like town who's trying to figure things out. But a townie for who's figuring things out - both recruiters are symmetrical and such thoughts won't ever arise.

Unvote. Vote: Tajo

Going to check out all ISOs to see if I can find other probables ..

[ooba]

*ebwop: But for a townie who's figuring things out ..

[ooba]

Yos, then let's vote him. Your vote on xvart is wasted now anyway. Or are you waiting for a VC to confirm that?

[ooba]

LL, by that logic, a mafia faction can still lose the game in pre-game, by selecting two recruit immune roles?

P-edit: The preselected recruit + recruit choice pregame looks better than the earlier method you suggested[hr]90[/rh]

---

As a moderator I can see Flay having these objectives in mind while designing presume so as to not give either recruiter an unfair advantage:
- No recruiter should get info on the other recruiters choice
- No recruiter should get info on recruitment-immune townies

As an addition to that, I will also design a system so that both cults will get a recruit and hence, cannot auto-lose due to the white flag rule.

Here's how I would have done it:
- Ask both of them to send me a list of 3 (or maybe even 5) names as possible recruits that they'd like - one of whom will be recruited into the team. That will be done by random pick after any recruitment-immune roles have been removed.

This satisfies all criteria mentioned above.

[ooba]

Populartajo
Seraphim
Spring

[ooba]

Kinetic's bringing this up cause his recruit is getting some heat over the last few pages. Combine that with the fact that he tried to disparage my "I've found scum" post even before I posted (and after I'd said I'll be taking a look at Magister and tajo), I'm guessing tajo is Kinetic's recruit ..

[ooba]

@ThAd: Why in god's name would we include the mob leaders in this?

Also, while I can understand the lurk part of the recruit play - I certainly don't see a recruit posting in other games and not here - since he obviously knows someone will look it up ..
You lurk and post just enough so that you're not called out for lurking .. Something like this list ..

Under 1.3, but at least 1:
Tajo

Ooba

Thad
Chrono
Katsuki

I'm moving one of my votes from Sera to ThAd .. And I thought cobbler was a wasted vote but apparently not - so moving vote on spring to Cobbler .. So my list is

Tajo
Cobbler
ThAd

[ooba]

This entire process seems sub-optimal somehow .. I don't think Chrono is a recruit .. On the other hand don't see xvart or Yos either so people should just join me on tajo ..

Lady- That last post is just wrong. The best chance at hitting the scum is when there is a high amount of them. There is a high chance of the vigs weakening the town tonight if they misfire.

wtf are you talking about?

The best chance at hitting the scum is later, when there are a lot of recruits.

With a reduced number of recruits, a vig shoot is dumb.

Just wanted to comment on this -

ALL VIGS SHOULD SHOOT TONIGHT

.. When you have the chance of shooting a recruit and taking down an entire cult team before it can ramp up in power, you take it .. Because *even if you assume vigs are unrecruitable like in S1*, if you hold off on the shot too long - all you'll be playing is kingmaker in deciding which cult team wins ..

[ooba]

Doesn't

He requires prodding and then talks about going back into lurk mode. He hasn't really contributed anything anytime in the last couple of weeks.

clash with

They don't want to draw any attention and risk being lynched (see previous).

A recruit would at least post enough so that he isn't called out for lurking ..

[ooba]

I'm not sure about Cobbler but I can tell you that xvart, Yos and Chrono are all prob-town ..

populartajo - 3 (ooba, Lady Lambdadelta, Battousai)

[ooba]

I would love, more than anything else, to have Tajo lynched.

[ooba]

ooba, what is my motivation to shut down the competing lynches?

The way I read the game currently - there's no consensus on any of our reads - so I don't see a sudden shift in voting to any of the smaller wagons - so it's going to settle on Chrono or xvart (or at an outside chance - Yos2) .. So even if you shut down Chrono - it's probably going to land on xvart anyway .. So not much risk in shutting down that lynch if you're a recruit ..

[ooba]

@xvart @Magister Ludi, while I agree on the vigging - an vig list doesn't help anybody but the CRs to recruit someone who wont be vigged ..

Vote: Chronopie

because of minor town tells on Yos, xvart. All I have is a WIFOM recruit wont lurk so much tell on Chrono .. Plus Wisdom of the Crowds

[ooba]

Batt, what I was saying is that most of the xvart wagon >50% was made up by players I didn't especially like or have pro-town sentiment towards

This isn't a standard game with a scum team where that logic would apply ..

[ooba]

@Batt

"I'm not confortable lynching someone who has no better chance at flipping scum than random."
Lynching at random is a much better choice than No-lynching when you know there are cults in the game.

Sure I would like a Tajo lynch above everything else and my reads on {Yos,Chrono,xvart} are {Town,Null,Town} - Doesn't stop me from choosing one of the wagons and moving towards a lynch. One of the skills of a townie is effectively reading the game state - You definitely aren't going to get a Ludi lynch and your vote is wasted .. Got to compromise ..

[ooba]

xvart - 7 (Yosarian2, Chronopie, Fritzler, bvoigt, Lady Lambdadelta, Katsuki, Seraphim)
Chronopie - 5 (xvart, Cobblerfone, Zdenek, ooba, ThAdmiral)
Yosarian2 - 6 (Herodotus, Nobody Special, DrippingGoofball, Porochaz, Magister Ludi, populartajo)
ThAdmiral - 1 (inHimshallibe)
Tanarin - 1 (springlullaby)
Magister Ludi - 2 (Andrius, Battousai)
Cobblerfone - 1 (Flameaxe)

Not Voting (2) : Tanarin, Bunnylover

With 25 voters, it will take 13 to lynch. Nightfall will occur no later than the end of June 14th, server time;

(expired on 2011-06-14 23:59:59)

. Due to the ridiculous number of prods out right now, 12 will lynch

AT

deadline; 13 before.

Tanarin, Bunnylover, Flameaxe, Andrius, Battousai, springlullaby, inHimshallibe

need to change their votes

[ooba]

Chrono is an equally valid wagon - 1 vote less than Yos and 2 votes less than xvart .. Don't want it shut down .. I'm here 24 hours - if required I'll shift to either of the others ..

[ooba]

No - deadline is represented by a countdown tag - meaning it is dynamic ..
i.e Just click refresh and you will see the count on this page going down - we have 14 hours to deadline from the time of this post ..

[ooba]

And the page turned ..

Anyway - Dynamic deadline:

(expired on 2011-06-14 23:59:59)

(Refresh to update)

[ooba]

You basically want to lynch a null read just because you want the chance to eliminate a faction. That's wrong. Don't be surprised that I now find you scummy, unless you can give me a case on why you think Chrono is scum (link if you've said already if you want).

I dont have a scum read on him - in fact gut tells me he wouldn't have lurked this much as a recruit - But I'd rather take a chance than not lynch .. You can find me scummy for this ..

[ooba]

So we're deciding to lynch one of the last players I'd pick as a cult-buddy?

I guess so ..

[ooba]

So, I have information for the town, but I'm unsure if they'll trust me with it. I'm pretty sure I know one of Albert's recruits thanks to one of my abilities. Is the town interested in learning more?

Any info coming from you is good info. Even if it may be blatantly wrong. Go on ..

Sera
- How are you sure it's a "he"?
- How do you know it's a "track"?

Vote: Sera

@ML: I'm hurt that you club with me along with Ser.

[ooba]

Yos should claim his target N1.

Not his ACTION. I don't want his action. I want his target.

Sorry misread this post, I thought he was talking to Kinetic ..

Unvote

[ooba]

@Ludi: I was expecting more vig kills because giving town multiple kills per cycle is the most obvious way to avoid the runaway double-recruiting problem. Apparently this setup uses a different method. One possibility is a limited number of recruitment shots, another is even/odd night recruitment

My theory would be even/odd night recruitment with a kill for a cult-group on nights you cannot recruit.
Vigs must be limited shot again ..

Yos
- Why did you ask Ser that question - I mean it's usually obvious that people have good reasons for asking for claims
- Why ask that question and then not wait before replying?

[ooba]

@DGB: what was your plan?

That stupid ordered list totally ruined my plan. Notice how I didn't mention it again after that.

Is there any harm in revealing what it was now?

[ooba]

@Batt

So, I have information for the town, but I'm unsure if they'll trust me with it. I'm pretty sure I know one of Albert's recruits thanks to one of my abilities. Is the town interested in learning more?

Yos

You

should claim his target N1.

Not his ACTION. I don't want his action. I want his target.

Sera
- How are you sure it's a "he"?
- How do you know it's a "track"?

Sera said "I want his target" and I thought he was talking to Kinecic about the player Kinetic has info on. So the question which arose was "How the hell does he know that Kinetic knows the target of the player?" implying track knowledge ..

[ooba]

Well, maybe we should ask people to confirm whether or not they were at 33 (the night club/lounge) last night. (note, not were they were, just whether or not visit 33)

Wait .. How do you know 33 is the night club/lounge?

[ooba]

"I know one of abr's recruits (X) due to my ability"

"Tell me who, not your ability"

"Tell me who X targetted, not his ability"

[ooba]

ooba, it says so on the wiki (where you are redirected if you click the map) Is there a reason you didnt bother to figure this information out?

Lol. I clicked on the map but never scrolled down - just double clicked again to go to the PNG ..

And I actually speculated on what two locations might be based on the newspaper report in the signup thread to try and understand the map more ..

[ooba]

Fine.

Vote: DGB

[ooba]

The following six people should each state which of them are most likely to have been recruited:
Bvoight, Fritzler, Flameaxe, Ooba, Porochaz, Populartajo

Poro.
I might have been wrong about Poptajo cause his thoughts on DGB resonate with mine ..

Also, @Fritzler:

---

So in the space of a single page DGB goes from:
- Lynch me cause it's the only way
- ML is scum
- Will scum ever self-vote?

Sorry - not buying it ..

[ooba]

Cobber is not a recruit.

Yos, you're really stretching here - why would he announce this at D2 start given that he never may be called out on it? If I had lied to survive D1, I would just keep quiet about it as cult ..

---

This holds even more weight KNOWING there are at minimum 2 kills that can go flying on any given night.

Where did you get this info from??

---

Seraphim is also highly likely scum at this point. I have information that pretty much confirms he is lying about what he did last night.

You either have it or you don't. This kind of weak counterclaim doesn't help anyone. (is also scummy)

---

Well played DGB .. I don't think you'll ever get lynched now ..

[ooba]

Explain to me how [cobblerfone's] story makes sense. I just don't see it.

I can give you a plausible explanation, but it would be speculation on his role PM, and I'm not sure that's pro-town, as if he's scum it would help him in fakeclaiming and if he's town it would take away from his own ability to claim.
It may be best if he simply claims so this stupid town can start voting for actual scum. Most likely, all but six players are currently voting for townies.

• Flameaxe
• Ooba
• Porochaz
• Populartajo

Oh, look at this! All four of the scum who haven't answered my question are voting for either Cobbler or DGb. Am I surprised?



We can vig DGb tonight if it's really necessary. During the day, though, let's lynch scum.

A - You ask a question but aren't paying enough attention to whose answering or not ..
B - You want to lynch scum but you're currently not voting

[ooba]

DGB ~ Hero

DGB mentions Hero as one of the top candidates in #844 but no mention of Hero on D2

In 1637, he speculates I might be cult based on Kinetic's info. Therefore, on some level, he believes Kinetic's info to be true...

Warning: role speculation here.
Seraphim has hinted that he's a rolecop.
Seraphim is a "junkie", and Ooba is the only other "junkie".
So Ooba has a good chance of also being a rolecop.
Kinetic has claimed to have seen DGb's role PM. Either he's lying about that, or he has a rolecop ability at his faction's command.
The rolecop ability could be innate to the CR's, or kinetic may have recruited Ooba.

But when it comes to DGB - on whom Kinetic is actually claiming info - he says "We can vig DGb tonight

if it's really necessary

. During the day, though, let's lynch scum."
1607
Also tries to downplay the DGB lynch in same post - "
It may be best if he simply claims so this stupid town can start voting for actual scum. Most likely, all but six players are currently voting for townies." ..

[ooba]

Hero needs to clarify ..

Also take investigative stuff with a pinch of salt .. I remember Succession I ..

[ooba]

I don't, so just stop referencing Succession 1 unless you plan on clarifying your position.

My position is "take your investigative flavor with a pinch of salt" ..

[ooba]

I think his phrasing points to N2 recruit but honestly why should he tell us the truth?

[ooba]

ebwop: Actually it should be pre game or N1 recruit ..

[ooba]

Vote: Tanarin

[ooba]

I think I can back up Seraphim on his D1\D2 claims. There is no contradiction. I don't see why he should claim his action.

But, Sera, you been hitting the Liquor shops a lot?

---

- Hero, ML are not recruits unless they are both recruited

DGB, stop tunneling on non-recruit BL .. I now reconsider my stance on DGB ..
- Unless they were playing a risky WIFOM game on D2, she cannot be Kinetic's recrit
- Given ABR's "apparent" guilty on SL, I don't see a recruit of his being the first to comment or act on it
Hence town for now.

---

Which brings me back to Tanarin - was considering who would make the best recruit yesterday for the CR - Given Hero targeting\spotlight on the bigger names, I would have personally gone for one of the others:
- Katsuki: Good choice but was voted on D2
- Zednek: On VLA for 2 weeks so given what happened to Chrono, I'd avoid this person
- Bunny lover: Play really doesn't inspire me to take a chance as a CR
- Bvoigt: good choice but wouldn't try to recruit cause of [redacted] reasons
Out of NS/Tanarin, Tanarin would have been my choice.

I think the first post of D3 was a slip. Even if townies take stuff at face value, there is always a lingering doubt in their minds. The way he says makes he think he knew for sure that Poro was Kinetic's recruit..

Anyway, went back and looked at Poro's interactions with others in the town on D2, and the only big interactions I have seen is between him and DGB. I dunno if this is bussing, or if he really thought that she could have been a recruit for Rampage. I'm gonna go back and look at D1 and see if it is possible he was a pre-game recruit or not though.

[ooba]

Out of NS/Tanarin, Tanarin would have been my choice.

Wait, hold up.

This is literally the

first time

you've mentioned me.

Care to explain?

What's there to explain. Went through the list - tried to remove everyone
- Who has been on most people's prob-recruit lists (like Flameaxe, Poptajo)
- Considered suspicious and attacked by some people (like Battousai)

Hiro Battousai, Bank Clerk

Bunny Lover, Factory Worker
Father B. Voigt, Priest

Cecily "Lambdadelta" Smith, Bartender (formerly Cecily)

Paul Cobblerfone, Teamster
Dripping Goofball, Dancer/Entertainer
Fritz L. R. Hernandez, City Councilperson
Flameaxe, Dancer/Entertainer
Herodotus Greco, Corrupt Cop

Katsuki Saito, Bartender

Mr. Sam Ludi, Corrupt Cop

John "Nobody Special" Doe, Business Owner

Bob "pops" Seaton, Junkie
Doc "Popular" Tajo, Doctor
Seraphim, Junkie
Ms. Spring Lullaby, Banker

Tanarin Oswald, Dock Worker

Anahito Xvart, Teamster
Yosarian Johnson, Cook

Mr. Zdenek, Pharmacist

ISO'd the rest to see who I would have recruited as a CR yesterday night.

[ooba]

@DGB: Yeah. I know Poro's last post. Just don't agree with the assumption that he did it not knowing info about flip would be withheld - can't say for sure either way. I certainly wouldn't hard code it and say "Maybe Poro really thought X was ABR's recruit …"

Yes. Katsuki's solid. This interaction was the only reason I thought a CR might have reservations: Kat vs Cobbler
You have my vote on Kat if Tanarin doesn't happen.

---

To anybody who takes Kinetic seriously:
- Succession one did not have "was a recruit of X" flips too. Just flipped recruited with different colors.
- And powerless cult flipped "Goon" but 1878 made me laugh

[ooba]

Based on the oddities of his claimed role info that he used to get me to claim

, I think there's a fairly high chance that he was cult yesterday. Also, even if he wasn't, he went into the night last night as (basically) a claimed tracker (at least, I assumed that's what he was trying to claim yesterday), so even if he was town yesterday, there's a very high chance he was recruited last night.

I can attest that there are no-oddities in his claim (fellow Junkies sticking together). I don't know if he was recruited or not though; I am leaning towards no ..

[ooba]

No, that's not true at all. I've been trying to mod my game, thank you very much.

I tracked Magister Ludi last night and only received a location. I am willing to claim this location if people want to. Yes, I am a tracker but I think something is funky with my role. For example, my night 1 PM was probably no result but the flavor heavily hinted that I was roleblocked but that I had received partial information. However, I do not think this is the case: I think the problem is on my end or I receive bad results. I did not get a target, only a location from Magister Ludi's travels.

I don't know if the other junkie(ooba, right?) has had similar problems if he has a PR.

That *definitely* was not what I was expecting.

So N1, you're claiming to have tracked Yos - yes?. Can you paraphrase the flavor you got?

[ooba]

1570 is about N1
The first two lines in 1939 is about N2

[ooba]

Mm. The problem is is that if I claim location first, and then you say that ML either was or wasn't in that place, then we don't have any reason to believe you. I already think you're likely to be scum, so even if you do claim information that implies ML was lying, I won't trust you with it.

So if I have it right - two things to clear up:
- What happened N1 - Need sera to claim the flavor
- N2: Checking if ML is telling the truth about JKing you via Sera.
-- If Sera claims your base location correctly, ML is telling the truth
-- If Sera claims something other than your base location, then either Sera is lying or ML is lying

So Sera needs to claim flavor for N1 and the location result for N2 ..

[ooba]

Sera - claim N1 flavor please ..

N2 is fine but that's really not the problem ..

[ooba]

Flavor-wise it makes sense (somewhat).

I think Sera is town. For one, I really don't see a recruit doing that D2. Why ask for a Yos claim - don't see the percentage in that .. Don't buy Yos theory that it's probable that recruiters went after a claimed tracker N2 because
a) I would have really gone after someone who's not in the spotlight
b) The corrupted cop (since the part about "we know if the other is recruited" came out only today) is a much better PR recruit

Since Sera has breadcrumbed, I'd like ML to state Yos's location ..

[ooba]

DGB, you have yet to explain why you asked for cult docs back on D1 and yet claimed unrecrutible later on. If you are unrecrutible, why ATTEMPT to distract the cult docs.

In case you don't get it...

ANSWER THE DAMN QUESTION!!!

unvote Vote DGB

Again, there HAS to be a reason why kinetic wants DGB dead, people. She is unrecrutiable not because of her power, but because of her being recruited. It is the only solution that makes sense given the evidence.

I'm not changing my vote for the day. Quite obvious Tanarin has been recruited...

[ooba]

Kinetic

Porochaz
Katsuki
????

ABR

DGB
Tanarin
????

Note: ???? could mean a failed recruit too

Possibles: Tajo, Frtiz, LL, Zdenek, Flameaxe

Unrecruite

Hero, ML, Yos, Spring, BunnyLover, Cobbler, NS, Batt, bvoigt, Seraphim, xvart

I guess voting Kat is in our best interests today.

Unvote. Vote: Kat

However DGB screams inside info plus I don't like her defense of obv-recruit Tanarin. Something to look into tomorrow ..

[ooba]

Katsuki needs to claim .. If she's town, I dont want us to lose any info

[ooba]

He won't claim culted.

True but he should be given the chance to claim cause
- If he's town, it's confirmed info
- In a two scum team environment, one team always has info on the other - I'll take it with a pinch of salt but I'd rather have it than just hammer

Unvote

until he claims

[ooba]

Katsuki is officially within claim-stalling territory.

^This.
Katsuki should stop wasting time..

But DGB, you should stop throwing your tantrums - it's distracting ..

[ooba]

Yeah, DGB, I think we do have bankable deadlines.

I'm not sure why people are waiting for a fakeclaim though, everyone has the same role whther they are cult or town, if someone is cult they still have the same exact role from when they weren't cult. So a claim really solves nothing and is detremental if we wind up not lynching that person (re: xvart) because we outted a power role for no good reason. I'm not sure why people are waiting around expectantly for something that makes no difference.

True but he should be given the chance to claim cause
- If he's town, it's confirmed info
- In a two scum team environment, one team always has info on the other - I'll take it with a pinch of salt but I'd rather have it than just hammer

Unvote

until he claims

[ooba]

Don't we have bankable deadlines?

I'm willing to wait one more day to hear Katsuki out .. Lynching him before then is a mistake ..

[ooba]

I'll be V\LA for the next 48 hours

[ooba]

Might have got the teams switched around but nothing much changes from this ...

Kinetic

Porochaz
Katsuki
????

ABR

DGB
Tanarin
????

Note: ???? could mean a failed recruit too

Possibles: Tajo, Frtiz, LL, Zdenek, Flameaxe

Unrecruite

Hero, ML, Yos, Spring, BunnyLover, Cobbler, NS, Batt, bvoigt, Seraphim, xvart

Vote: DGB

Also Batt, did you work in the same bank? Any clue why she died?

[ooba]

To whoever- I do not have any flavor information from working with Spring to determine why Spring died.

The reason why I asked is because of this flavor titbit ..

"No comment was provided on why Ms. Lullaby was opening the bank by herself, an apparent violation of accepted security practices."

Where were you that morning?

P-edit: DGB attacking Tanarin? Lemme relook at D3 play again ..

[ooba]

1) You assume I'm not there because I'm doing something, why are you trying to out a PR?
2) It's kind of hard to kill someone if they are not all alone, so I couldn't have been there, flavor-wise.

I'm just trying to work out flavor reasons as to why you wouldn't be at your workplace when she was killed? The death flavor clearly points to security policies saying spring shouldn't have been alone (Could be Flay flavor for making up for the lack of any security or night guards guarding the place).
To minimize any possible PR or other info leakage - you can just reply back: "I wasn't there at the bank. Why I wasn't is none of your damn business. If needed, I will explain this when I eventually claim later"

@DGB: I've noticed that my name is on the list

[ooba]

Ooba- as I said, you are PR hunting. Even if I say I was out, that would be claiming a PR. If I say I was there, then I'd be telling you that the PR pool is down to x players. 20 bucks says cult is trying to find whoever is doing the killing right now, as they can now rule out ABR.

VOTE: Ooba

I'm not stupid enough as cult to go gung-ho on somebody just to eliminate one person from being a vig. You've danced around this enough - I want a claim -

Where you at the bank the morning SL died?

[ooba]

I threw out subtlety because you kept dodging the answer..

Claim: Watcher - Can stalk out a location
N3 Action: Lot#36 - Merchants-Produce Bank
Result: I settle in the alley opposite the bank. Nothing seems to happen for a long while and I keep dozing on and off. Near dawn, I spot SL walking across the road to the bank. She is joined by someone on the other side but it's too far away for me to see who it is or hear what they're saying. I see them entering the bank. I doze off again and next time I open my eyes, the street is empty.

Clearly Batt dodging the answer points to him being the guy who met SL at the entrance (makes sense flavor wise too - Inside man on the bank) and probably murdering her.

[ooba]

P. Edit: I feel like spring was more likely as a vig kill. What do you think?

A vig wouldn't have robbed the bank.

Also, on Katsuki, I was right about wanting the claim. Pretty sure one cult would have inside info on other cult or at least heavily suspect who could be members of the other cult. All multi-scum games involve one group ratting on the other - Off the top of my head {Pirates vs Ninjas, Star Wars Mafia}.

[ooba]

1) If I targeted SL, wouldn't you have seen me at the bank as well as SL?
2) SL was killed last night, and was a suspect of many people yesterday (if you ignore Katsuki). Why would scum kill Spring? You obviously would have to think that whoever killed Spring is scum otherwise you'd be trying to out a vig.

1) My result flavor works in mysterious ways. I miss a lot due to being "doped out", dozing off", "blurry vision".
2) Clearly the entire thing was a scum robbery of the bank

The Merchants-Produce Bank has been closed all morning, unusually for a Tuesday, but then bank robberies are unusual affairs…. even should the bank's losses be "worse than expected"

I know Flay's flavor. A Vig would have hit SL "just outside the bank as she walked to the door"

I didn't ask you if you targeted someone - The question was "Where you at the bank the morning SL died?". The more you don't commit yourself to this answer - the more it makes me think that you are the mysterious stranger.

Vote: Batt

P-edit: The flavor clearly talks about loses.

[ooba]

Claim: Watcher - Can stalk out a location

You have other actions to claim before I believe you're not a recruit.

And I see no reason to claim those right now - cause none of it is directly implicates anyone - but can be useful to catch someone in a counterclaim later.

---

@Batt - My case on you:
- I saw a mysterious stranger with SL just before she was killed
- Wanted to check if you were with her at the bank - because if you were - you either are the mysterious stranger (or) would have flavor info about it
- Your reactions have ranged from "You're outing PRs" - "It's obviously not scum. ooba's trying to get a killing role lynched" - You're doing everything in your power to avoid claiming because you don't want the risk of being caught out by somebody else by claiming whether you were at the bank or not.

Other townies - Back me up on this - I want him to commit to an answer

Unless you think I'm a VI or a recruit - I don't see why you would oppose this ..

P-edit:
@DGB
Day 2: Role related
Day 3: The Tanarin vote is explained.

@Bvoigt on your earlier point: I didn't see the point in hammering before going on VLA.

[ooba]

I would be in favor of Battousai claiming where he was last night.

In fact, was he at the bank or is he the mysterious stranger would do?

[ooba]

We have a guilty on bvoigt? Excellent ..

---

Wow people really need to read what I am saying. I don't want him to claim where he was - I want Batt to claim whether he was at the bank yesterday or not.
If he claims yes
- He obviously should know something about the kill and robbery
If he claims no (And he's already softclaimed this)
- It isn't obvious he's a PR
-- Could have been visiting some other location
-- Could have another base location
I just want him to commit to this.

It's just eliminating one townie from one particular location. You're all acting like it's a motherload of information to give away by that claim.

[ooba]

How would I know what went on at the home location? I'm not linked to SL.

And if I did know something, why would I not claim it?

. This is all just you being pointless, claiming a PR and trying to out or trim the pool of other roles for no damn reason.

Because you could be the scum behind the robbery?

And regarding linked with SL - you've already claimed that you work with SL

To whoever- I do not have any flavor information from working with Spring to determine why Spring died.

You're not claiming PR\Non-PR by saying whether you were at the bank or not - there is absolutely no trimming the pool even though you try to frame it that way ...

[ooba]

Irritated with people not backing me up on the claim. I obviously know how to play this game.
I think every person in this game has a "Visit" ability? So him telling us whether he was in the bank or not does not out PR\Non-PR status.
People supporting the claim: Sera, Bunnylover, Bvoigt

---

W.r.t DGB, these were the two tells I was talking about:
a) Sudden attack on Katsuki pointing to inside info
Day 1 posts on Katsuki = 2/131
Day 2 posts on Katsuki = 0/55
Sudden spurt in Day 3 attacks on Katsuki

b) One scum team trying to get a member of opposing team lynched
Both opposite scum wanted DGB lynched and were very strong on it - Poro, Kat

The entire
D1: DGB - "I have a plan which can be implemented tomorrow"
D2: DGB - "Can't do it now because you guys made lists"
D2: Kinectic - "Lol. DGB lies"
D2: DGB - "Lynch me so you will never listen to Kinetic again"
Also let's reanalyze D1
ThAdmiral suggests the "let's make a list of three" in 841
DGB is the first person to reply with a list in 844
While everybody else replies with lists, DGB posts at least 10 posts.
Admiral collates list in 936. DGB comments on Chrono heading the list in 943.
Admiral updates the list. Suddenly DGB has a problem in 1045??

Also there was this gem earlier in this day - "You have other actions to claim before I believe you're not a recruit."

Vote: DGB

[ooba]

---

W.r.t DGB, these were the two tells I was talking about:
a) Sudden attack on Katsuki pointing to inside info
Day 1 posts on Katsuki = 2/131
Day 2 posts on Katsuki = 0/55
Sudden spurt in Day 3 attacks on Katsuki

Hello scum,

If you were town, you'd consider that Katsuki went after me, first.

b) One scum team trying to get a member of opposing team lynched

Both opposite scum wanted DGB lynched

and were very strong on it - Poro, Kat

Both scumteams want me dead, that's a cult-tell?

Also, Kinetic-the-confirmed-scum and Tanarin/Darox and tajo are still after me, they are Kinetic's recruits. But you know that already, don't you?

Both tajo and Tanarin/Darox know that I'm not an ABR recruit, but they have to keep up the charade to appear consistent. Like you.

What is that - reinforcement - keeping calling me cult every line and hopefully it'll stick?

So what if she went first- Tajo attacked you D2 - you never went after him at all - so it's not like you've attacked everybody who attacked you

- The opposing scum team (read: ABR+recruits) wanted you dead - and pushed for it hard - Both Katsuki and Poro had reason to believe you were Kinetic's recruit. That is a very strong Kinetic cult tell.
- ABR is out of the game. Nobody in the game is an ABR recruit - what charade??

[ooba]

Both frikkin' scum teams

thought I was the other's recruit for Pete's sake...

I'll correct you here
- ABR's team wanted you dead
- I've already outlined how the entire D2 play with you claiming your plan cant be implemented now and kinetic claiming you're lying looks more like a pre-planned charade. (evidence: D1 play - specifically regarding the lists + "Lynch me so that you wont' listen to CRs ever again")

[ooba]

KINETIC wanted me dead, real bad. Read your cult QT for details.

Keep saying this enough times so that everyone thinks he wanted you dead real bad ..

Also let's reanalyze D1
ThAdmiral suggests the "let's make a list of three" in 841
DGB is the first person to reply with a list in 844
While everybody else replies with lists, DGB posts at least 10 posts.
Admiral collates list in 936. DGB comments on Chrono heading the list in 943.
Admiral updates the list. Suddenly DGB has a problem in 1045??

And really - NOTHING ON THIS??
- You had a plan in mind already
- Admiral was making lists and you obviously knew about it (Apparently it conflicted with your plan as per D2 claim)
- Yet you never stop him

[ooba]

You're a recruit, why should I waste my time following all these links?

I'm not going to convince you I'm town, I'm trying to convince the townies that you're cult.

Summarized so that you don't have follow any links:
"Somebody is making a list which is destroying your masterplan for D2 - yet you did nothing about it"

[ooba]

Admiral collates list in 936. DGB comments on Chrono heading the list in 943.

@Conspiracy -
The thing with the lists is pretty simple
- DGB says she had a plan in mind
- Admiral does something which interferes
- Does nothing while it is being done - even comments on it the first time he posts it (look above)
- Then suddenly goes "Oh. This list is bad!"??

Regarding the opposite scum team - my premise is that they would rather hunt for the other team recruits.

PR hunting? Like I said - I'm not going to 1:1 as a cult recruit for a simple claim as to whether one person was in one location or not.

@xvart
I know my role and I know what I saw. I want a claim. Don't try to play my role for me.

[ooba]

Also Ooba is right in that it is a cult tell if both cult team want you dead.

No. This is not what I said.
- Scum teams in multiple scum games always hunt for the other team
- It's a Kinetic cult tell if ABR's recruits want you dead
- Poro, Kastsuki both wanted DGB dead strongly

[ooba]

My other two games are closer to deadline (and MyLo) so haven't given this a read. From a skim..
- There is a third mysterious mafia faction in this game
- I do have a good clue as to who they are. (At least two members) However I'm not going to reveal their names as I think they are unrecruitable and don't see why I should reduce the recruit pool for the cult.
- DGB remains culted (Mafia boys - someone you should shoot tonight if she's not lynched)
- Tajo could be the N3 recruit. (DGB\PopTajo run around reminds me of my fav. scum play - Bus strongly but never bring the other close to lynch.)
- Torn on Darox. DGB thinks he's town. Not sure if it's protecting the scumbuddy or white knighting .. Vibe tells me Darox is town ..

[ooba]

Can someone please point me to where this mysterious third faction is? Or why I should take anyone seriously who is discussing it?

Quite obvious if you think about it.
- Nobody is going to lie about his role this game - recruited or not recruited. Actions post-recruitment maybe, but not role.
- There's not going to be a kill-doc just for vig and kill-instead-of-recruiting-this-night cult choice (which is stupid in most situations anyway)
- Hence, a scum group exists.

Also, DGB makes up some weird logic to vote Darox in this page - Darox is definitely town.

[ooba]

Also, DGB makes up some weird logic to vote Darox in this page - Darox is definitely town.

K, gonna vote tajo?

Tajo "could" be the N3 recruit, but you definitely are cult. So no ..

[ooba]

Sorry DGB.

- Hero, I'd like you to share your results so far

[ooba]

I threw out subtlety because you kept dodging the answer..

Claim: Watcher - Can stalk out a location
N3 Action: Lot#36 - Merchants-Produce Bank
Result: I settle in the alley opposite the bank. Nothing seems to happen for a long while and I keep dozing on and off. Near dawn, I spot SL walking across the road to the bank. She is joined by someone on the other side but it's too far away for me to see who it is or hear what they're saying. I see them entering the bank. I doze off again and next time I open my eyes, the street is empty.

Clearly Batt dodging the answer points to him being the guy who met SL at the entrance (makes sense flavor wise too - Inside man on the bank) and probably murdering her.

What made you choose the bank as your target?

I was trying to think who would be a good recruit for N3. Batt would have been my choice so watched the bank.

[ooba]

What brought about that question?

[ooba]

Ooba, where did you watch last night?

I don't understand this. DGB did the same thing yesterday too - Is it curiosity?
- Unless you think cult lose their ability when recruited (which wasn't the case last game) - you can be pretty sure that I have this ability
- The only way to catch cult in night actions is (a) Through investigative actions (b) Or catching cult in a counterclaim since they cannot openly claim some actions (Like roleblocker on Hero for example)
I definitely help in (b) - Don't see why I should claim target and tip people off as to what they can get away with. (My claim yesterday was a knee jerk reaction because I thought I had caught Batt in the bank robbery & killing SL - I still think it's true & that he is the mysterious stranger from reactions)

Hero - Sera backed me up on the flavor being ambiguous part. That's part and parcel with the flavor of Flay games.

I would be up for a massclaim.

[ooba]

I would be up for a massclaim.

Before that, there may be some advantages if you state whether you have watched "me" some time during nights 2 or 4, or you have not. (Obviously some disadvantages too.)

What are the advantages? I can only think of the possible disadvantage of giving info which can catch people in counterclaims away ..

[ooba]

Lets get the massclaim started popcorn style then. Unless Herod has a guilty. I repeat, claim those now.

Its also probably NOT a good idea to claim unrecruitable if you are, in fact, unrecruitable. Just claim whatever role you are minus that information.

Anyway, you already know my role. (There was also some minor favor about being unable to jail the cult recruiters because the residence was

too hot to handle for anyone acting alone

{whatever that means, probably nothing/ useless flavor})

I prefer we go popcorn style. I choose next bvoigt.

All nights (N1-N4): Yos?

[ooba]

Let's finish the massclaim ..

[ooba]

Okay, every body stop mass-claiming now.
Bvoigt, tell me how the church is in relation with you.

I don't really get what you're asking. I'm a priest at Holy Rosary Church.

And I intentionally left this out of my claim last time, but yes,

I am unrecruitable.

The flavor name is Incorruptible.

I believe this to be true - I got this vibe from his reactions to Cobbler's claim. I mention this here when I try to analyze who would have made a good N2 recruit...

- Bvoigt: good choice but wouldn't try to recruit cause of [redacted] reasons

Bvoigt is town.

[ooba]

I am a Townie with the visit ability. My job is to transport things for the local businesses. I've lived in the Quay for my entire life and have seen the ups and downs but this is the worst it has been, even worse than another time. I don't want to see my home run into the ground.

Bunnylover is next.

Bunnylover or Flameaxe - go...

[ooba]

Also, if you're unrecruitable - don't claim that part of your role ..

[ooba]

We're finishing the claims (minus the unrecruitable part of it) ...

[ooba]

V\LA for the next four days

- Pop.Tajo & Xvart .. Stuck on the thrid - Zdenek I guess

[ooba]

Hey I'm here. Re-reading the claims and the day from start ..

[ooba]

When was the first time that the ML-Hero cult masonary was reviled? Which day?

[ooba]

Please don't lynch until I have my say. Forcing myself to finish the claim re-read once I'm back from work.
Expect a post in

(expired on 2011-08-09 20:59:59)

[ooba]

Ok. Here goes:

Hero\ML

- I've had thoughts with the cult masonary declared by ML-Hero from about yesterday night. You already know my theory on how pregame recruitment was handled ("Kinetic\ABR sends a list of list of three names; remove unrecruitables and choose one randomly of those left"). So does that mean if ML\Hero were recruited - it's auto-lose for the recruiter? (Since the other would claim D1 and get the recruit lynched).
- I'm not giving much credence to the above because it is based on a speculative theory of mine. But the other thing about this confuses me even more. Put yourself in Kinetic's position. D3 - ABR's team is gone. He has at least one recruit at that time. Wouldn't the best move be to recruit Hero and get him lynched on D4? Because otherwise - I'm running the risk of targeting a unrecruitable on N4 and Hero targeting my recruit(s). (Yeah there was the fact that cult doctors targeted Hero on that night - but those were suboptimal moves)
- However, that said - their play this day appears pro-town and does not give me "Cult'd" vibes. I'm either wrong about the above assumptions in the CR play or Kinectic has probably tried to recruit Hero and failed.
Overall: Both are town.

bvoigt

- The unrecruitable vibe was too hard to miss.
- Night actions are suboptimal but that doesn't make him cult - in fact, I'd argue to the contrary that if cult'd, his claim would have been better.
Overall: Town.

LLD

- By extension, I also expect this cult doc to be unrecruitable.
Overall: Town

NS\Batt

- I can personally at test that I've watched both people making one of their kills.
-- I lied about the N3 result. I watched the bank and actually saw both Batt and SL waking into the bank together. (So you can understand my suspicions. I framed my results and my probing in such a way so as to make the "mysterious stranger" appear scum and give Batt the option of claiming not to be him. He didn't bite.)
-- Not claiming when I saw NS making a kill but saw him walking into one of the target's locations on the night of the kill.
- Vig's were unrecruitable last time. (Don't claim if otherwise please)
Overall: Neither of the kill choices were bad. Should be considered town if they hit cult in the coming nights. Definitely not today's lynch.

Not much to say on the others but townish vibes on Cobbler and Flameaxe (even though he switches to Zdenek).

---

Yos

- See a lost of people writing off Yos because he was JK'd all four nights. He can be a pregame recruit.
- Very strong xvart support with the push on Zdenek. Is cult if vxart turns up cult.

Doc Tajo - Amrun

- Saw a distinct shift in D3 play


I scumhunt by associations and who chooses to attack who. Based on that and the above town reads, I think xvart is cult'd and once he flips, we should take a look at those promoting alternate lynches for scum. My guess is on:

xvart - 5 (Magister Ludi, Cobblerfone, Bunnylover, Amrun, Zdenek)
Zdenek - 3 (bvoigt, Nobody Special,

Yosarian2

)
Cobblerfone - 2 (Flameaxe,

xvart

)
Flameaxe - 1 (Battousai)
bvoigt - 1 (

ConSpiracy

)
Nobody Special - 1 (Lady Lambdadelta)

Not Voting - Herodotus, ooba

Vote: xvart

---

Also, I'd like to suggest a mini-plan for the night:
- One of the docs (bvoigt) protects me
That would mean Kinetic's recruit can fail in two ways - LLD protecting that person or me watching the recruit target (instalynch tomorrow)

Also I'd like each of you to confirm base location for my watching - this list is based on the clippings and assumption so would like this corrected.

Name	Location
Hiro Battousai, Bank Clerk	36. Merchants-Produce Bank
Bunny Lover, Factory Worker	1. Chase Bag Company
Father B. Voigt, Priest	8. Holy Rosary Catholic Church
Cecily "Lambdadelta" Smith, Bartender (formerly Cecily)	34. Nikos Bar and Grill
Paul Cobblerfone, Teamster	9. Lloyd-Adams Transfer and Storage
Dripping Goofball, Dancer/Entertainer	31. Limelight Cabaret
Fritz L. R. Hernandez, City Councilperson	22. River Quay Journal
Flameaxe, Dancer/Entertainer	33. Harlow's Night Club
Herodotus Greco, Corrupt Cop	3. Police Garage/Substation
Katsuki Saito, Bartender	4. Victoria Station restaurant
Mr. Sam Ludi, Corrupt Cop	???
John "Nobody Special" Doe, Business Owner	7. Delaware Daddy's
Doc "Popular" Tajo, Doctor	2. St. Mary's Hospital
Andrius Raudhr, Teamster (formerly RaudhrGarm)	12. Langsford Funeral Home
Seraphim, Junkie	24. Papa Nick's Wine Cellar
Ms. Spring Lullaby, Banker	36. Merchants-Produce Bank
Tanarin Oswald, Dock Worker	10. Uncle Joe's Tavern
Mike "The Admiral" Howell, Personal Trainer	35. Garrison Athletic Center
Anahito Xvart, Teamster	13. B & B Distributing
Yosarian Johnson, Cook	26. Dinkeldorf's Deli
Mr. Zdenek, Pharmacist	23. Getz Prescription Shop
Max "Chrono" P. Warner, (Town) Photographer/Private Investigator	28. Warner Photographic Studio
Alan "Mr. Dry-Fit Shall I Be" Wilson, Warehouse Supervisor/Townie	20. Sid's Warehouse / Sterling Company
Charles "Chaz" Poro, Recruited Business Owner/Goon	27. Yesterday's Girl

If you do not correct something which is incorrect in this list & I find out via a watch - I'll consider it as a "culled" claim.

[ooba]

Lets also ask this now. Why does 14 have that red explosion about it. And what is the place with a question mark on it?

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?tit ... uaymap.png

14 is obviously the Godfather Lounge - which gets blown up at the start of the game. No idea about the "?".

@NS, my watcher ability works by targeting locations and not people. Obviously if I get the location wrong, I cannot watch who I want to watch.

[ooba]

OOba: Fine, fine, you can say I've been defending Xvart and might be scum if he is, that makes logical sense. What it dosn't do is explain why you're voting for him, like at all. Nothing in your post does. You analyze 8 people and then vote for someone you don't even mention anywhere else in your post.

This is really the biggest reason why I just can't get behind the Xvart wagon here. Scummy looking people (Ooba, Zdenek, ect) just keep getting on the bandwagon for really weak excuses. It could be a bussing, but considering how few mislynches the town can afford here, I'm really thinking the whole cult is just pushing for a mislynch here.

Fair enough point. It's my playstyle:
I can't link from my phone but you should check out Battle for Olympus Mafia where I on D1
- Spend more time discussing town reads (namely chess)
- Look at the rest (PoE) and see who's attacking who (and conversely who's soft defending who) and look at a possible scum team from there
<wifom>And seriously, if I'm cult, i'd jump on with much better looking cases.</wifom>

@bvoigt: Zednek's mostly town cause scummy people joining his wagon. (Yos, Cons, Doc.Tajo-Amrun)

[ooba]

Cobble last posts reek.

Does anyone mind if I drop the hammer?

I do. I'd still like the location + mini-plan finalized.

[ooba]

If you do not correct something which is incorrect in this list & I find out via a watch - I'll consider it as a "culled" claim.

Remind me but I remember you not having conclusive information about specific people visiting places, only more a voyeur type role knowing someone visited a place. So how does location claiming help you determine if someone is lying about their location?

When I watch a particular location, I get info about who stays there and who also visits during a particular night. For example
-- On one night, I just saw a player walk into the location (which confirmed that it was his base location)
-- On the night I watched the bank, I saw SL+Batt arriving and walking in together
So my watch results are useless if I can't accurately target the location of the person who I want to watch.

@P-edit: I am not cult.
Mini-plan is that one of the cult-docs protect me while I watch one of the others. To accurately watch - I need the location info.

[ooba]

The only people doing the killing are the vigs, and if one of our cultdoc gets killed, we simply lynch the vigilante. We can assign players 1-9 and 10-17 to each vig, if one cult doc die and the other kill comes from within the subset of players, who know who is cult.

This is not about me watching the vigs. This is about me watching a player to see if he\she is recruited by Kinetic tonight.

[ooba]

No, you implied you wanted to watch the cult docs

Mini-plan is that one of the cult-docs protect me while

I watch one of the others.

Others meaning other-players. If I wanted to imply I wanted to watch a cult doc - I would have said "one of the cult-docs protect me while I watch the other"

[ooba]

Nothing has been sorted out since:
- Nobody has agreed on bvoigt cult-docing me
- A bunch of people not telling me their base locations for my watch to be useful

I'll make it simple
- If you think I'm cult, lynch me today
- Otherwise, cut the "I'm suspicious because he wants location" BS and go ahead with this

[ooba]

Just watch 3. The police station. You have two of the more powerful roles in the game both at the same place.

But if your claims are true, one of you would know if the other was recruited anyway - so watching your substation would be a waste of the watch .. (The only situation where it's useful is a recruited-vig killing you - but it's a suboptimal move as they would put themselves in a 50-50% with Batt-NS)

And if I am right - I don't think Hero's starting location will be the same as yours - I anticipate different base locations for everyone. (Otherwise I could watch two people with one action - which seems overpowered)

[ooba]

What I *REALLY* don't like, though, is Ooba

demanding

that a cult doc protect him, when we've got claimed vigs, a claimed cop, a claimed jailkeeper, and a claimed doctor. Really re-enforces my "ooba is scum" thinking here.

- Claimed cop covered by claimed JK. And till now I thought claimed JK was covered by claimed cop.
- Vigs were unrecruitable last game and even if not this game, should give Kinetic enough pause to really think about wasting a recruit attempt.
- Both cult-docs are unrecruitable

The doc serves no purpose unless you subscribe to the fourth faction Mafia theory - even if you take him into account, that leaves:
- BunnyLover
- Cobblerfone
- Conspiracy
- Flameaxe
- Amrun
- Ludi
- Me
By cult-docing me, you make sure that I watch one of the others and can use that as a confirmed pseudo "Wasn't recruited on N5" result. So basically we're forcing Kinetic to add another layer to his recruit thoughts apart from "Who'd make a good recruit", "Who'd be shot by the vigs" - "Who is ooba going to watch?"

Just because you can't think of the obvious town benefits doesn't make me cult. And "demanding" is a stretch.

---

The vigs claiming their targets in advance is a bad idea.

[ooba]

ooba, people aren't claiming locations, what are you going to do about that? Do you still want me to hold of hammering?

People aren't claiming because of herd mentality; everybody's not taking a stance and looking at each other:
Mr. Sam Ludi, Corrupt Cop - Yes
Pops "ooba" Seaton, Junkie - Yes
Father B. Voigt, Priest - Yes
Paul Cobblerfone, Teamster - Yes if everyone agree

Hiro Battousai, Bank Clerk - No comment
Bunny Lover, Factory Worker - No comment
Cecily "Lambdadelta" Smith, Bartender (formerly Cecily) - No comment
Spiro Caan, City Councilperson (formerly Fritzler) - Say I've got his base wrong but doesn't comment on plan
Flameaxe, Dancer/Entertainer - No comment
Herodotus Greco, Corrupt Cop - No comment
Dr. Amrun Tajo, Doctor (was populartajo) - No comment
Anahito Xvart, Teamster - Responded with a question - No comment
Mr. Zdenek, Pharmacist - No comment

John "Nobody Special" Doe, Business Owner - No but will do whatever the majority does
Yosarian Johnson, Cook - No to the cult-doc on me; No comment on location claiming

So it isn't a case of people opposing the plan; it's a case of people not caring enough to comment. I'm not going to let a good plan be wasted just because of lethargy. So yeah - I want you to hold off hammering until the majority opposes or we go through with it.

[ooba]

And you don't think that the cult docs claiming their targets in advance is a bad idea? Or, even worse, the cult docs being directed to protect a certain person?

Given that we're talking about (what looks like with Hero not claiming results) town's only remaining informational role, I don't think it is a bad idea at all.

Let's analyze the two scenarios:
- Bvoigt on someone else = Someone else protected from recruit
- Bvoigt on me; I watch someone else = I will know if Someone else is recruited that night; Plus I'm protected

So there's an added informational component in the night actions under my plan.

Of course, the caveat is that I could be cult and I am wasting one of the cult docs with the plan- but like I said - if you believe that to be the case - lynch me.

[ooba]

Seriously, we need the scum to not know who the cult doctors are going to protect, because otherwise they will succeed in culting 100% of the time. We want them to fail.

Good job not addressing the part where I say my plan is superior to a unclaimed protect & just amping up the paranoia.

[ooba]

Go town!

[ooba]

@This game

Cult MVP: Yos
For surviving when we should have lost Day 1 and Day 2, and for protecting xvart from getting lynched at a pretty pivotal moment in the game.

- I think day five was the pivotal moment in the game. Yos protecting xvart was a risky move but them surviving that day made sure cult won.
- Kinetic recruiting ML in the end was a nice touch.
- I felt sorry for ABR for being forced to recruit Katsuki (who played horribly)
- I think I should have pushed for a xvart lynch more forcefully on D5. Also I can't town let Batt get away with killing me!

@On cult games
- I think people who scumhunt by associations do much better in cult games. Asking the questions "If Zdenek is cult, who is he cult with?" would lead you to the conclusion that he's town.
- I've also noticed the "feel" cult games seem to have during the game - town becomes increasingly frustrated. Paranoia? IDK.

@Mr.Flay
-

Why did the N1 recruit on me fail?

(Oh. Kinetic was blocked and Yos came to recruit me but was JK'd)
- I actually worked out Uncle Joe's Tavern as Kinetic's location. (around N3 or so) N5 - I was actually considering one option of visiting the Tavern and presenting myself to the cult. Would that have worked?

I thoroughly enjoyed the game - I also think the best team won - so kudos!

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Also - nominations. The only reason I didn't nominate for best setup is because I think the Vigs should have been unrecruitable (and you could have kept the cult docs recruitable) - 9 shots when they were town and they still won ...