Dynasty Warriors Mafia (Shu Victorious)

[inHimshallibe]

Oh, you guys.


OMG ELVIS.

[inHimshallibe]

I don't know about you, bastard, but I'm not scum and I have nowhere to talk outside the thread.

Pre-Vote:

Amrun

Okay, I admit the joke wasn't as funny as it sounded in my head.

vote: Amrun

[inHimshallibe]

Right, I need to catch up in here. >->

[inHimshallibe]

I'm saying that, for the most part, elvis is correct. Who duels who should be left up to town. If there are to obviously growing wagons, both of which are being contested against one another, that is enough reason for a duel. They can legitimately duke it out, so to speak.

SO, I'm not talking about any 'lil argument, but one in which it becomes apparent that no other lynch will be happening.

If I think neither of them scummy? Touche, that would suck. Just note that when I said 1v1, I more or less meant the above--that there is a general consensus that at least one of the 2 ppl is scum.

The duel mechanic forces players to take a risk for the sake of power. It is a powerful tool when done correctly, but when a town loses, it hurts regardless of whether or not the person dueling them was scum.

I think we should just get the speculation stuff of the way early, so:
1) Should duels be a town consensus or based on an individuals confidence in their reads/need for power?
2) Flavor speculation: Who is our enemy?

My answers:
1)Town consensus, UNLESS, as stated earlier, it is a player is confident enough in his reasons for dueling without it. Consensus suggests that everyone is agreement on something, but the majority is not always correct.
2) I don't know it well enough, which is why I asked the question. However, given the amount of families in the game, I could see more than one scum team.

I could see scum making a post like this, be wary of ToastyToast buddying imo.

[inHimshallibe]

What do you mean by the comment about me, Juls? Defending what?

It was just a joke.

I think Juls' idea is better than the others, so far, but I don't know what she means by if someone flips scummy then they are scum. Can you explain this part?

Even that plan doesn't seem optimal, but I'm not sure I can think of anything better. If I do, I'll post it here, obviously.

This is the problem. The way your post reads contradicts this.

PEDIT:

unvote
vote CSL

"Wait... WAIT" = feigned emotion.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

AlmasterGM

- 2 - GreyICE, C-Worl - (L-9)

Amrun

- 1 - Juls - (L-10)

CSL

- 1 - InHimshallibe - (L-10)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, mykonian - (L-9)

Magister Ludi

- 6 - RayFrost, ToastyToast, Iecerint, Katsuki, Vi, Amrun - (L-5)

mykonian

- 3 - elvis_knits, CSL, DietyKabuto - (L-8)

RayFrost

- 1 - Magister Ludi - (L-10)

ToastyToast

- 2 - AlmasterGM, RedCoyote - (L-9)

Players not voting: Bastard Bros, Maxous

Less talk about the flavor? Dude, most of us either love the games, or like spyrex games.

Reading the case on Ludi.

P-Edit: Wait...WAIT A MINUTE.

C-Worl, are you saying that if you see someone IN YOUR OWN EYES that is scum, you are going to control the town? And all you care about in this game is the mechanic? You are either scum, or idiot town.

No, town's are full of VIs. I'm tired of losing games where I called who was scum and I still lost because of VIs. It's worse when you see someone who's obvtown to you about to get lynched by those same VIs. I probably won't do it normally but if I see town about to lynch someone who I believe to be obvtown while letting someone who is clearly scum walk free I will use the duel mechanic.

In my opinion that's probably why Spyrex added the duel mechanic. And why shouldn't I care about the mechanic? Those are how I pick which games I want to join. I joined this game simply bc of the Duel Mechanic.

Now that I'm here I'm going to use it to find the scum but letting a bunch of VIs decide a certain way the mechanic is used is a great way for scum to manipulate it so that it best suits them.

Yeah, this is laughable.

Who, exactly, are the VIs deciding how this mechanic will be handled? The next bit about scum manipulating its use is nonsense.

@anyone that feels like helping C-Worl out here: I want some examples of scum actually actively manipulating a public mechanic to their use.

[inHimshallibe]

Erm. Ludi, the game hadn't started yet and all there

was

to talk about was duel speculation. I couldn't even vote.

So what you're saying is nonsensical to me.

This and this read like made up post restrictions to me.

I agree with gamma that arguing about the duel stuff might not be the greatest idea early on. We're probably better off focusing on the whole finding scum thing rather than distracting from this by trying to solve the issue of optimal dueling strategy. First we find scum... then we think about the best way to deal with them.

*spreads arms wide*

Was this tongue-in-cheek? If not, why no follow-up?

[inHimshallibe]

I skimmed your first fifty posts in that game, and I don't see you proposing anything about the mechanics at all.

The point I'm trying to make is that scum are rarely (and I still haven't found a good example) going to be out advocating ANYTHING unless it has been mentioned before or unless it is the obvious safe way to use a mechanic. Outside-the-box thinking like Juls' suggestion just rarely happens from scum.

[inHimshallibe]

ToastyToast as scum would be buddying e_k's theory.

[inHimshallibe]

Short version - top mafia suspects are Ray Frost,

Juls

and CSL.

This is exceptional (fixed) posting.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

AlmasterGM

- 2 - GreyICE, C-Worl - (L-9)

Amrun

- 1 - DietyKabuto - (L-10)

DietyKabuto

- 1 - Amrun - (L-10)

Drunken Unicorn Master

- 2 - InHimshallibe, RayFrost - (L-9)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, mykonian - (L-9)

GreyICE

- 2 - Vi, Juls - (L-9)

Iecerint

- 1 - Magister Ludi - (L-10)

Magister Ludi

- 4 - ToastyToast, Iecerint, Katsuki, Drunken Unicorn Master - (L-7)

mykonian

- 1 - elvis_knits - (L-10)

RayFrost

- 1 - Maxous - (L-10)

ToastyToast

- 2 - AlmasterGM, RedCoyote - (L-9)

Players not voting: Bastard Bros

vote: Drunken Unicorn Master

I'm sorry it had to be this way.

[inHimshallibe]

Also, it was pretty clear RC was paying attention to the thread already, but he's now claiming he's going to read it like he hasn't touched the material. Forced imo.

[inHimshallibe]

I think it's about time I kicked this game's ass.

Apologies for previous sloth.

[inHimshallibe]

As far as mechanics go, I think we play the game and evaluate actions. If someone wants to duel, they better have a good reason or it's probably their ass on the line. If we want to hold hands and force duels, that's fine too, but there will be accountability for those on the outside of a duel that have chosen the two duelists.

I also don't expect scum to start too many unprovoked duels.

[inHimshallibe]

JULS IS TOWNIER THAN TOWN.

Unvote, Vote: Amrun

This is an easy proclamation, and I don't like this statement paired with that vote. Reads like Katsuki is trying to force a shiny object on us.

[inHimshallibe]

Vote: Rayfrost

His comment about being scum is worthy of a vote.

Toasty is also worth keeping an eye on.

The only reason a mind would wonder to the possibility of two ro more scum teams is if the known composition of your own scum team is not very strong or large.

C-Worls 81 looks like a vote park with an easy transition to a any forming wagon. Dislike.

----------

As for Flavor about more scum teams, we have

Wu

with the Quan family,

Shu

with Lui Bei, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, and possibly a serial killer along the lines of Dong Zhou or Lu Bu.

Each probably interact favorably with duels somehow

Scum are the ones probably thinking about two teams, and then you go ahead and list them out as two teams?

For purposes of putting a game together, I could easily see Mafia portrayed as an alliance of Wu and Shu.

[inHimshallibe]

OK, so I was late to the party with that particular bit of Ludihate.

Only played #3, and I had to google to realize your reasoning behind the shu choices (only remembered lui bei). I'm sure other people are more avid players of the series than myself. Looking stuff up, I fail to see why you wouldn't mention Sun Quan (EMPEROR) or Sun Ce (brother of EMPEROR) or Sun Shang Xiang (sister of EMPEROR) when you still mention the three brothers in Shu.

What I mean is the fact you speculated in just two of the three when even a simple google search by me brings up information about Wu as well. It doesn't make sense to exclude speculation on one if you're speculating on others, yet you did.

Still, I can't really think of any scum-motivation for excluding it I suppose. Meh. Leaving the vote anyway.

If there ARE two scumteams, Ludi and RayFrost are on opposing ones. This is a bonafide-lock.

OH BUT THE GOOGLE SEARCHES. Unnecessary qualification for making an accusation. Town more likely to go "Why not X, Y, or Z?" and NOT "If you look at the wiki, you can see X, Y, and Z. Tell me more about this."

[inHimshallibe]

Hey inhims what's your craaaaaaaziest read? (do you have a read that's contrary to most other people's and reasons for read)

Possibly you, though that's more roleparanoia than anything else.

Still processing.

[inHimshallibe]

RC had a good, very town-likely posting here. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 4#p3066104 Particularly liked defending mykonian and the vote of ToastyToast.

RayFrost really not wanting to talk about Ludi anymore :noted: here. http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p3066138

[inHimshallibe]

inHimshallibe 359

et al

...

Defense of Amrun and RedCoyote heavily noted.

Post stream appears "easy".

Tricksy robotses.

Setting up contingencies. Katsuki-scum at this point is mostly predicated on Amrun being weak, but town, or there is another scumteam, to which Amrun could certainly belong.

[inHimshallibe]

I'm afraid I'm a bit shuked as to how those two quotes are similar.

I think elvis is just excited to be playing again and is taking the overzealous and overcareful town angle too far. I could also see myself being biased toward keeping her around because I don't like lynching people that haven't played in a while so soon.

Hmm, I want a duel. Gamma should pull the trigger on our Drunken Unicorn participant.

[inHimshallibe]

UNVOTE: DeityKabuto

VOTE: Magistar Ludi

I wish I could add some stunning, convincing point to the case, but I can't think of one.

RayFrost especially made some very good points that caused me to re-read ML carefully to find that I agree with the points made. This vote is better than my previous one.

inHim, I have yet to be told why making that joke was scummy. To be honest, I don't care that much. Your vote for such a thing at this stage of the game is weak. It was just a joke.

The bold is very probable town posting from Amrun. She recognizes a wagon with a seemingly better than decent chance at catching scum and doesn't add fluff reasoning.

[inHimshallibe]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 11

Amrun

- 5 - DietyKabuto, elvis_knits, GreyICE, RedCoyote, Vi - (L-6)

DietyKabuto

- 1 - Amrun - (L-10)

Drunken Unicorn Master

- 2 - RayFrost, InHimshallibe - (L-9)

elvis_knits

- 2 - Gammagooey, mykonian - (L-9)

GreyICE

- 2 - Juls, C-Worl - (L-9)

Iecerint

- 1 - Magister Ludi - (L-10)

Magister Ludi

- 4 - ToastyToast, Iecerint, Katsuki, Drunken Unicorn Master - (L-7)

RayFrost

- 1 - Maxous - (L-10)

ToastyToast

- 1 - AlmasterGM - (L-10)

Players not voting: Bastard Bros

DUM, post more so people will vote you.

Or I could just start bumping quotes.

[inHimshallibe]

DYNASTY IS YOUR DESTINY (SCUM TO TOWN)

TO BE DUELING
Drunken Unicorn Master
Magister Ludi

AND THEN
Katsuki
Vi
RayFrost

THAT CRAPTASTIC GREY AREA EVERYONE HATES - AT PRESENT WHOLLY UNINTERESTED IN THEIR DEATH OR LIFE
ToastyToast
Iecerint
Gammagooey
AGM
DietyKabuto
GreyICE
C-Worl
Amrun

TOWN I THINK
elvis_knits
mykonian (lol hey you two)
RedCoyote

FUHGEDDABOUTIT
Bastard Bros
Maxous
Juls
inHim

I really dislike the dirt Vi was dishing Juls' way. I also disagree with most of his reads.

By the by, Vi's post restriction should not be anyone's point of contention.

[inHimshallibe]

EBWOP: "post restriction"

[inHimshallibe]

Katsuki, I could settle on you being Town.

[inHimshallibe]

I'm Town.

[inHimshallibe]

myko raises a good point about Ray (and possibly Toasty) being on the DUM wagon. Maxous and Bastard Bros are fine, though.

[inHimshallibe]

Yo Vi: myko said he wanted to turn elvis' list upside down. I protested, 'cause I like myko and want to be friends.

[inHimshallibe]

Gotcha.

[inHimshallibe]

‪AlmasterGM 495‬... Error. Socratic response in regards to GreyICE does not answer original objection. Obstinance for sake of obstinance detected. Sarcastic gratitude issued.

I answered your objection (which was really you just saying "no") in #474. You ignored that and responded with "error." I responded with asking if you would be okay with lynching GreyICE tomorrow, and I gave two reasons why we should do this. 1) A topic I wish to discuss tomorrow and 2) GreyICE tends to become more readable as the game goes on, so it's beneficial to let him brew for a while. Now you have once again responded with "Error" and called me obstinate … but then you proceed to agree in your next post that GreyICE isn't lynchable today. So if anyone is being difficult for the sake of being difficult, it's clearly you.

Perhaps a summarized view of the conversation would make this more clear:

AGM: I think Thing A.
Vi: No.
AGM: Here's why I think Thing A.
Vi: No.
AGM: Well, what do you think of Thing A?
Vi: You are stubborn and wrong.
Vi (to everyone else): Let's do Thing A.

This is scummy.

A++

[inHimshallibe]

Vi, please to be telling me what is so different about me now than what you've experienced in the past?

[inHimshallibe]

Deity, elvis was trying to get a sense of who would be the lynch today. I do agree that it may be trying to hard to get back into the good graces of town.

Actually, your post does unintentionally bring up a fairly decent point: I don't see much reason for elvis_town to even give others the option of listing her as possible scum. elvis, elaborate?

[inHimshallibe]

GG