Succession Mafia II: OVER!
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Flameaxe wrote: I'd assume with two lynch immune stumps they get some sort of recruit...Otherwise we would be doing absolutely nothing day one.
Well, with the "white flag" rule Flay linked to, if the stump is the only member of his group, the group loses, so I think there has to be at least one extra member of each cult during day 1.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Albert B. Rampage wrote:Who do you think Kinetic and I recruited, Yosarian?
Looking at the white flag rules, if you recruit someone and they get lynched day 1, your team just loses on the spot, right?
So your priority would be to get someone who's not going to be lynched day 1. Day 1 is your riskiest day, and the town's best chance, so if you're smart, you'd play it safe. Not a VI, not someone who has an uber-controversial playstyle, not someone who's too high profile either. Day 1, I'd expect you guys to go for someone who's reasonably skilled but who can fly under the radar without really being noticed, one of the good but quiet players that never really get run up on day 1.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Seraphim wrote:ABR: that question is one giant kettle of hot, steaming WIFOM.
Heh. Get used to it, I have a feeling this game is going to be wall to wall WIFOM from start to finish.
Also, I have reason to believe you and Kinetic haven't recruited yet.
Really? Huh. If that's true, then we should all stop speculating until day 1 is started recruited, or we might just make it easier for them.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Albert B. Rampage wrote:
Very good. Who in this player list would correspond to that archetype, in your opinion?
Yosarian2 wrote:
Also, I have reason to believe you and Kinetic haven't recruited yet.
Really? Huh. If that's true, then we should all stop speculating until day 1 is started, or we might just make it easier for them.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Chronopie wrote:Magister Ludi wrote:Chrono, could you explain why these recruiters would NOT want to pick a very good player. It seems like an optimal choice.
Simple: Every knows that those particular players are a powerful force for either alignment, either cult, to acquire and maintain. Yos can attest to this personally, as much the same happened in Succession I, with him gaining a large amount of suspicion purely for being so good that he was a forgone choice for a recruit. Thus they are not good choices to recruit, specifically because they're good, which means
[wifom]We as town know they're good choices to recruit, because they're good, so they're likely recruits (As opposed to say... Katsuki, bunny, or myself, who tend to be erratic at best), which in turn means that town needs them to die, in order to kill the cult, which in turn makes them bad choices to recruit specifically because they'd be good choices, thus good lynches for town to make, thus bad recruitment choices.[/wifom](also cyclic argument is cyclic)
tl;dr: They're good, we know it, we're likely to lynch them, because they'd be a good recruit, which is why they aren't recruited, because they'd be lynched, which would be disadvantageous to the cults.
Yeah, the most high-profile players wouldn't really make a good day 1 recruit. If someone like DGB or Fritzler or Porochaz (or me, hah) starts acting really weird day 3 or so, watch out; cults might bring in the "heavy hitters" later to try to dominate the day game, but day 1 for the cults is probably going to be all about just getting through the day without people paying attention to their recruits at all.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Kinetic wrote:DrippingGoofball wrote:I will claim now.
I'm a whore.
If I'm recruited by mobster A, mobster A will fail, and I will instead by added to mobster B's group.
I have untreated STDs, herpes, HIV, chlamydia, crabs, body lice, and the brothel's bed bug population is kept in check by snakes and gila monsters.
Great claim for someone already recruited.
Or for a townie who doesn't want to get recruited. Or for a dripping goofball who likes saying wacky things.
Anyway, I agree with DGB about xvart. When I was thinking about skilled players who are not high profile, who can still blend in and be relatively unnoticed, the two that came to my mind offhand were xvart and Battousai. So, that seems like a good place to start.Vote:xvartI want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Also, it occurs to me that it would be pretty funny if someone recruited flameaxe day 1 on the assumption that he would flake and be replaced out like he always does, and that that would eat up enough time to prevent him from being lynched day 1.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Flameaxe wrote: I didn't flake Succession 1, didn't flake either of Prozac's minis, didn't flake oman's mini, requested replacement in oldy only to retract that request 20 minutes too late. Your logic is three years too old, Yos.
Good, good, glad to hear it. You're fun to play with when you stick around.
Anyway, I like the way you responded to the personal comment more then to the implication that you're scum. That gives me a good vibe about you in this situation.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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porochaz wrote:
Yos's vote on xvart doesn't seem yosish. DGB's vote is DGB, self defined as arbitrary amongst a short list of recruits. Yos who I view as a logical player and takes the bull by the horns approach sheeping that, doesn't stick
Prozac: Sheeping? Really?
Xvert was exactly who I was thinking of in my post on page 2, long before DGB attacked him. He's one of the most logical day 1 recruitment choices; have you ever seen Xvert get lynched on day 1 of a game? I don't believe I have, at least not as far as I can remember. My vote on him really has nothing to do with DGB's vote.
That being said, DGB is looking pretty town so far this game, so sheeping her doesn't sound like a bad idea anyway.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Cobblerfone wrote:
I know the role I have. I was halfway sure that all teamsters might've had it too. To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable. The scum will have to lynch or kill me. That's the difference that made me not want to lynch you.
Why would you claim uncrecrutable when you're nowhere near a lynch? If you were really unrecruitable, your goal should have been to act really town and try to "soak up" some recruitment attempts, not to claim.
On the other hand, an unrecruitable fakeclaim makes a lot of sense for a recruit to make. You wouldn't have to worry about the other side trying to recruit you and finding out your alignment that way, for one thing.
From a setup point of view, the existence of some kind of unrecruitables is probable. If the scum don't sometimes fail to recruit, the town couldn't possibly win. It's worth mentioning, though, that in Flay's last cult game, there weren't any "plain" unrecruitables; the real unrecrutables were roles like "unrecrutable 1 shot vig" or "unrecrutable recruit-preventing-doctor" or such.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Porochaz wrote:Well on page 2 your only post was confirm and I started on page 5. However as thats arbitrary I went and looked, nowhere do you mention xvart before page 5.
Sorry, not page 2, page 3.
When i said this on page 3:
Yosarian2 wrote:Not a VI, not someone who has an uber-controversial playstyle, not someone who's too high profile either. Day 1, I'd expect you guys to go for someone who's reasonably skilled but who can fly under the radar without really being noticed, one of the good but quiet players that never really get run up on day 1.
The two people I was thinking of were Xvert and Battousai, I just didn't really want to start naming specific suspects until the day started.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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ooba wrote:I thought we weren't mentioning town reads?
meh. Not sure how much good that does. They're going to recruit someone, after all, and we all know that town reads have a very short expiration date in this game no matter what.
I really, really want to find a scum today. I know that Mr. Flay does his best to make his games balanced, but IMHO, despite his best efforts, all the cult games of his I've been in have all been balanced against the town pretty significantly; it's just hard to create a cult game that isn't balanced against the town. We're probably going to need a lucky break here to have a decent shot. If sharing town reads improves our odds of finding and lynch a scum today, and thus wiping out a whole scum group, then it's worth the risk.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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In this case, on day 1, when all you care about is getting your one cult memeber to survive the day? Someone who's good at staying alive and staying under the radar. Someone who plays a solid, logical game without taking big risks or having to always lead the town.
I don't know everyone in the game, but the names that come to mind are xvart, Battousai, possibly ooba, possibly Herodotus. Don't know what your or Kintetic's experence of those players are, though.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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DrippingGoofball wrote:Yosarian2 wrote:In this case, on day 1, when all you care about is getting your one cult memeber to survive the day? Someone who's good at staying alive and staying under the radar. Someone who plays a solid, logical game without taking big risks or having to always lead the town.
I don't know everyone in the game, but the names that come to mind are xvart, Battousai, possibly ooba, possibly Herodotus. Don't know what your or Kintetic's experence of those players are, though.
STOP TALKING TO THE SCUM, YOS! It's a trap!
It's ok. I think that Albert's natural inability to remain quiet for any length of time is going to work to our advantage here.
Plus, hell, maybe he can help us scumhunt for Kintetic's recruit.
Albert, who do you think Kinetic would recruit night zero?
Kinetic, who do you think Albert would recruit night zero?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Porochaz wrote:Didn't we discuss this already? Why are you wasting time?
No, we actually haven't heard from Albert who he thinks Kinetic would have picked night zero, or vice versa. There was that fun little WIFOM thing they did with each other ,but that was them "claiming" their own targets.
Anyway, we do have limited time, but it's not like we have limited posts; it dosn't cost the town anything for me to ask questions. Why are you opposed to me asking the scum some questions?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Magister Ludi wrote:Vote: Yosarian2
Vote is in a bad place. And his reasoning for it is bad on two fronts. One, if xvart is being run up to a lynch today, isn't that exactly the sort of player they would avoid?
That is such a bad argument.
I have never seen Xvart be lynched day 1 in any other game. Part of the reason he's being voted is that he's never lynched day 1.
Are you saying that whoever we decide to vote today, we should unvote them because we're voting them?
Sheeping vote with DGB is bad.
What are you talking about? In order to get a game moving, in order to start getting information and such, you have to join bandwagons. This happened to be one that I agreed with the logic behind, so I joined it. If joining wagons is always "sheeping", then that makes "sheeping" a very pro-town action, since town obviously can't win without doing that.
Also, reading all pages in this thread is critical, your questions have already been asked and answered.
Why is everyone so determined to protect the cult recruiters from answering questions here?
Also, Is it even possible to beat the cult? If we wipe out one cult somehow today, the other will always be recruiting even as we lynch their members, always staying one member ahead of an ability we have to stop them.
I'm sure it's possible, probably due to some town power roles and/or some kind of restriction on the cult's ability to recruit. We shouldn't speculate about this any farther since we do not want to out any town power roles today.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Cobblerfone wrote:
I'm not going to respond to Yosarian2's post about the unrecruitable modifier.
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I asked you why you would claim unrecruitable, when claiming unrecruitable is so obviously anti-town for any actual unrecruitable people to do, while being a good thing for recruited scum to claim, and your response is to "refuse to respond"?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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DrippingGoofball wrote:
If anyone has an anti-recruitment power, USE IT ON ME. Feel free to lynch me on Day 3 after the plan is explained to everyone.
Lol. There is so much WIFOM this game, I love it.
Cobblerfone: I don't want to to claim anything else; in fact, I wish you hadn't claimed what you have. What I would like is for you to explain why you claimed so prematurely.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Battousai wrote:
Yos- You clearly haven't played with me often enough to know my scum meta based on your description of me.
Perhaps. I've played with you a bunch of times, and I generally think of you as a solid, reliable, generally logical player who's not too high profile, who's generally active but is rarely going to be one of the top posters of a game. I can't remember offhand if I've played with you when you were scum, though.
Since you brought it up; what would you say your scum meta is, then?
[qutoe]
Not liking Cobb or xvart, as well as Ludi. Claiming unrecruitable is similar to me as someone claiming bulletproof in a normal game. Combine that with his play - voting someone because their role is doctor (changes it for a policy lynch for an ongoing game ) However, xvart's attack on him (starting around Cobb's ISO 11) makes me think xvart is trying hard to get the lead wagon shifted over to Cobb, and not because he finds Cobb scummy[/quote]
Yeah, I agree with this. That being said, remember we're looking for two scum in opposing scum groups here. Xvart and Cobb can't be scum together, but we already knew that; even if Xvart does flip scum, that doesn't actually tell us anything about Cobb.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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ooba wrote:I really cannot understand the attacks on Cobblerfone. Do people really think recruiters would have targeted him? No offense to Cobbler, but why would I back someone untested .. It's been two months since he joined the site ..
That's a fair question.
I guess my concern is that I don't really see a pro-town unrecruitable claiming the way he did, but if I was a scum recruiter and I decided to recruit a newbie, I'd probably tell him "If you get in trouble, just claim unrecruitable. It's unconfirmable, it's safe, town won't want to lynch an unrecruitable, counterclaims are not a problem since there may be more then one unrecruitable, and it'll keep you safe from the other scum recruiter".
Basically, it's just the perfect scum fakeclaim, while at the same time, a town unrecrutable should not even think about claiming at, what was he at, 3 votes or something? So him claiming unrecruitable is either a "good scum play", or it's a "REALLY bad town play", and that makes me suspicious.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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xvart wrote:
Full disclosure: I've never been lynched D1, and I think I have only been lynched 2 or 3 times total.
(nods) Yeah, I believe it.
What day were you recruited in Succession 1?
I was town day 1, then I was recruited the night after that, I believe. Looking back at the game, looks like I was recruited at the same time you were, heh.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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springlullaby wrote:
@Yoswhy do you think cobbler's play is good scum play, yet not voting him?
I think there's a pretty good chance he's scum, and I'm considering voting him. I'm a little reluctant to lynch a claimed unrecrutable, but then again that's exactally why scum would claim unrecruitable, ect, and the main goal has to be to lynch one of the two scum today if we've got any chance of doing so.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Magister Ludi wrote:
You can see, Yos, people are running up xvart to a lynch expressely BECAUSE he if 'hard to lynch' 'a good player' 'not lynched day one'. It is not over the actions he has taken in this game, (or if people think that, the reasons are very weak and not substantiated), but over the fact that he is an ideal lynch for day one because he is NOT (in the views of many) likely to be lynched day one.
Cult Recruiters are people too. They would reason this out.
Lol. Thank you for giving a perfect example of why you never take WIFOM logic to the second degree and beyond.
"X is a low profile but good player who's never lynched day 1, but the town might figure out that I want to recruit a low profile but good player who's never lynched day 1, and might lynch him for being a low profile but good player who's never lynched day 1, so..."
Albert and Kinetic are both decent players, but nobody has a crystal ball THAT good to predict to THAT degree what a town is going to do in advance.
I have yet to see someone in this thread CLAIM they would have recruited xvart, instead the words are something like 'other people would recruit him because he is so good' so he should be lynched off.
Huh? If I was a recruiter, I would have recrutied Xvart. That was my whole pooint.
As for sheeping with a vote, I see no reason to. You aren't going to get buddy reactions, there are none. You didn't attempt to generate discussion from what I could see. It would almost be better if we all talked, all with whatever orginal thoughts popped into our heads, and then lynched someone off.
How are we going to lynch someone off if no one ever votes for anyone that anyone else is voting for? How can we get any information at all if we never wagon anyone?
"Why is everyone so determined to protect the cult recruiters from answering questions here?"
I asked this already and they answered about page 4-5. They had some other interactions back there, so it is critical you read that as well as whatever else you may of missed.
Of course I read what happened back on page 4. It's kind of insulting that you think I didn't. That's not actually the question I was asking, though, and if they had answered the question, I think it would have been a big help to the town.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Herodotus wrote:
Yos2, why not briefly state the difference between the earlier question and your recent one?
I was trying to get each one of them to name one specific person that they think their opponent would have recruited, not a general list. Honestly, the more we can get them to name names, the more likely they are to trip themselves up; for one thing, if they were forced to name one specific person, they probably wouldn't bring more attention to their own recruit.
Of course, Kinteic ignored me, and Albert responded by saying he thought Kintetic would have recruited me, hehe. Albert's playing the WIFOM game on a deep level this game.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Herodotus wrote:I think I get the joke. It's funny because Albert's the one who recruited you. Saying kinetic might have recruited you is irony because Albert knows that's impossible.
Hehe. No, he didn't, but I suspect that he wanted you to wonder. Like I said, he's playing the WIFOM on a deep level this game.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Magister Ludi wrote:(that being said, if someone is doing anti-town actions and it is resonable they were recruited, like Yos2 and Batt, they make good lynches)
Ok, now you're just making stuff up. I haven't done any "anti-town" actions this game, unless you think me trying to figure out who the scum are are anti-town.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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populartajo wrote:
Yosa is acting really weird, supporting the cobbler wagon with a weak argument (the fakeclaim) which is scummy as feck
...what?
I don't think it's at all likely that a pro-town unrecruitable claims unrecruitable at 3 votes. that would be an absolutely terrible move. This is one of those "scum or VI" situations, and cobbler just doesn't seem that dumb to me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Cobblerfone wrote:
Let me last at least one night. If I'm scum the other scum will kill me anyway.
Hmm? No matter if you're a scum or if you're unrecruitable, they probably won't kill you at this early stage either way. Assuming the mechanics are the same as the first game (scum either recruit or kill every night), the scum will probably start killing each other at some point later on, but at this early stage in the game, they'll probably recruit instead. Although they might make an exception if they think they can wipe out the other scum group.
From what I understand if the recruiters try to recruit an unrecruitable or another scum, the recruitment becomes a kill. I only read up to where Seraphim got replaced out in Succession I. I'll read the end to find out if it's explained there. (and assuming similiar mechanics.)
If you actually have the unrecruitable role, why don't you just ask the mod yourself what happens if the scum try to recruit you?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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populartajo wrote:springlullaby wrote:populartajo wrote:yosa:
Cobblerfone wrote:VOTE: Popular Tajo
I don't think I'm allowed to say why. But he's a "doctor". I'd recruit the doctor even if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".
this screams vi rather than recruited scum, agree?
Dunno, as newbie scum I would do that kind of "look I'm a newbie" too. It's a hard call to make.
except the difference here is that recruiters wouldnt go for newbies.
Yeah, the whole "scum probably wouldn't recruit newbies" wifom stuff is a very valid argument, and it's the main reason I'm not voting cobbler right now.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Flameaxe wrote:And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.
Hint too much at...the role you've already claimed?
Ever since I mentioned that the unrecruitable roles in Sucession I also had another ability as well, he's been hinting that he has a second ability that he hasn't claimed. Which, frankly, just makes me more suspicious.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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DrippingGoofball wrote:
Players that don't like the xvart wagon are welcome to pile their votes on MLudi.
The basically self-contradictory WIFOM arguments Mludi are using to both say xvart is town and to say I am scum seem pretty scummy, especially since he hasn't really done anything else.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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populartajo wrote:Yosarian2 wrote:So, Albert: if you were going to recruit a newbie like cobblerfone or MLudi instead of an experienced player like xvart on day 1, why would you do it?
what kind of question is this?
what VALID answer did you expect to get?
Vote: Yosarian2
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I was asking the cult leader a question, Tajo, in the hopes of getting some kind of useful reaction.
I realize they're going to try to WIFOM us all day, but the whole "we know who the scum are" stuff is one of the interesting things about this game, and it dosn't cost us anything to poke at them and see how they respond.
I don't get at all how you can vote me for that. It's not at all anti-town, and while it's not all that likely to get us information, it's worth a shot, and it's at least entertaining to try.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Really would like you to answer my question, Tajo. Why are you so keen on trying to get me to leave the confirmed scum alone?
As far as I can tell, there's nothing anti-town about me asking them questions. You attacking me and actually voting for that really seems odd, like you're either trying to fake a reason to suspect me, or else you're trying to prevent me from getting reactions from the cult recruiters.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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populartajo wrote:
YOU ARE ASKING QUESTIONS TO CONFIRMED SCUM TO TRY TO APPEAR HELPFUL.
Bull. I have been helpful, more helpful then many people in this game. Far more helpful then you voting me for doing something that's not anti-town.
If you don't think my attempts to draw the cult recruiters out are going to be fruitful, then feel free to ignore them, i don't care. You calling them scummy, though, when they're at best potentially helpful and at worst harmless, looks like an attempt on your part to fake scumhunting.
THEIR ANSWERS ARE FULL OF WIFOM AND SHIT.
Of course they are. That's exactly why they might be useful.
I don't know where people got the idea that WIFOM=useless. That couldn't be farther from the truth.
WHAT VALID INFO DID YOU SINCERELY THINK YOU COULD GET?
If I ask a cult recruiter about recruiting inexeperenced people, do you really think that his response is going to be exactly the same no matter if he recruited one or not? I don't. People's emotions and their goals affect their posting, always, especially in high pressure situations like today would be for a cult recruiter.
Kinetic is playing his cards close to his chest, unfortunately. There's information to be gathered from that too, though; I'd expect Kinetic to be trying more gambits if we were close to lynching his recruit. On the other hand, ABR is trying to fling all kinds of BS around, he's attacking people (like me), he's playing WIFOM games. All that suggests to me that he's worried, that one of the top wagons might be his recruit, that he wants to create a distraction.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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populartajo wrote:tanarin, how does claiming unrecruitable help cobblerfone cult?
It reduces his odds of being lynched. It's a strong, important power role that he will never have to confirm in any way, and that doesn't have any risk of being counterclaimed (since there's fairly likely more then one unrecruitable townie anyway). If believed, it reduces his odds of being investigated later, or being vigged, or being targeted by other town roles. Also, one big risk of cult recruits is that if the other cult targets them and fails, then the other cult will know their alignment and the recruiter can leak that information to the town; being untargatable eliminates that risk.
All in all, it's a great claim for a cult recruit. There's really none better.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Tajo: You're just all around wrong here, and I'm going to stop responding to you, because I have no desire to give the cult recruiters any more hints. I think your pressure on this area is pretty scummy, though.
not aas scummy as Cobbler, though.
Cobblerfone wrote:
Why are you so focused on getting answers out of Rampage?
I'm hardly "focused" on it. I asked the two cult recruiters one question, on a lark. People are making way too much of what was basically a no-cost longshot gambit that took all of 2 minutes to try.
Plus, during confirmation so it's a bit fuzzy of whether you could've been scum by then, you made guesses about the set-up and the number of scum and the way the recruiters pick. Set-up speculation is one of the few scumtells I trust. Especially since you seem to have a history of it from Succession One when you were a confirmed recruit. (Though I can't find the post so if that was actually someone else, it'd be helpful to point it out.)
I didn't make any "guesses about the setup", cobbler, I talked about the setup that the mod told us in the rules, and then I guessed about who the scum woudl pick, in order to try to find the scum. In any case, in any theme game, trying to figure out the setup and the town stratagy is absolutly vital for the town to do; calling that a scum tell is terrible.
And yes, of course I did setup speculation on day 1 of succession mafia 1. I was also town on day 1 of succession mafia 1, I wasn't recruited until later. Trying to figure out the setup is a pro-town act.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Cobblerfone wrote:Yos wrote:I'm hardly "focused" on it. I asked the two cult recruiters one question, on a lark. People are making way too much of what was basically a no-cost longshot gambit that took all of 2 minutes to try.
I meant in relation to Kinetic.
I asked the question to both cult leaders. Albert responded, Kinetic didn't.
Kinetic really isn't saying anything this game, and Albert's more likely to take risks in general. Albert has a big ego, and wants to prove he's smarter then me, so he's likely to go way out on a limb to try to beat me at the WIFOM game.
The truth is, though, that while I directed that question to the two cult leaders, I was really more interested in how other people would respond to it.
I was refering to what someone else had said. I still can't find it, but apparently when you were recruited and "confirmed" scum somehow they left you alive because you were leaking (false) details about the number of recruits each team had, etc.
Oh, no no. I was investigated to be a cult recruit, which meant the town knew I was scum but couldn't afford to lynch me until they found the cult recruiters. While I was "confirmed scum" but unlynchable, I played a lot of WIFOM games with the town, so I actually have a pretty good idea of the situation Kinetic and Albert are in, and the strengths and weaknesses of it.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Flameaxe wrote:I'd also expect the CRs to go after someone that would be safe on D1, and I don't recall Yos being lynched on day one that often.
I'm getting either lynched early for what seems to be shit reasonsor wagoned close to a lynch in something like 2/3ds of the games I play now, and I have no idea why. It's unbelievably frustrating. I don't know if I'm getting worse or if everyone else is, but it's to the point where I'm thinking about just quitting mafia for a while after my current games are over.
Anyway, that's neither here nor there, but let's just say that any argument based on "Yos doesn't get lynched" is years out of date at this point.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Herodotus wrote:Yosarian2 wrote:The truth is, though, that while I directed that question to the two cult leaders, I was really more interested in how other people would respond to it.
Don't leave us waiting.
Meh. Considering everyone basically ignored it, except for Tajo attacking me for "pretending to be helpful" or whatever, I didn't really get any useful reactions. Was worth a shot though.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Tanarin wrote:
This bothers me though a bit. If you know what they are going through, why even bothering asking them questions?
Because I know how easy it is to slip up in that position when you try to be too clever.
You KNOW they are gonna WIFOM the shit out of you, and make it 100x harder for yourself and the town.
That dosn't make any sense. Either we ignore it, or we try to outsmart them and figure out what they're getting at.
Everyone does everything for a reason. If they're trying to "WIFOM the shit out of me", then that's great. That means we can look at what they're doing, how they're doing it, look at what they're trying to accomplish.
I don't know why everyone is making such a big deal about this. I don't expect to get that much information from this; we might get a little bit of unreliable but useful information, or we might not. It certainly can't hurt us. Either way, we need to focus on actually hunting scum, not arguing about this.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Magister Ludi wrote:Yosarian2, how do you think and play when you were confirmed cult in the previous succession mafia? What was your thought process, how did you act, and what are you seeing in Kinetic and ABR play that reflects or doesn't reflect this.
It was a totally different situation. I know that the WIFOM game is dangerous. I was trying to convince people I was part of the "smaller cult group" in order to get attention away from me and my cult recruiter, but some people saw through it and figured out what i was doing. I don't see what any of that has to directly do with this situation, though.
Are you trying the "get person X mislynched by calling back the emotions of a different game where they were scum" gambit? That's a pretty scummy tactic, if you are.
And, would you mind linking me to the last game were you were lynched day one.
I can't think of any recent games where I was lynched on day 1, but I've either been mislynched or vigged as town in a hell of a lot of my recent games, and it's really getting frustrating.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Battousai: How does this ability you're claiming work? Will xvart show up as having no votes on the next vote count? If we lynch him, does nothing happen, or does the day just end, or what? Can we test your claim without negative effects to the town?
I don't know why we're talking about vigging DGB. She really wouldn't make a good day 1 recruitment target at all; she's the kind of person who's either leading the town or getting lynched, with absolutely no middle ground. Nothing she's done today seems scummy to me, either.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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DrippingGoofball wrote:Hey guys
Since I'm going to be vig'ed - why don't you lynch me? Really, being vig'ed is a frikkin' embarrassment. I die at the hands of scum, or I die from a lynch.
DGB
DGB: Please don't do your kamakazi thing this game. It's really not helpful.
I don't think you're going to get vigged, but even if you were, we really want to lynch scum today and wipe out one of the scum groups. If you are town, which you probably are, this is not going to help the town here.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Ooba: Yeah, Tajo makes a lot of sense as a possible scum recruit here. His whole "let's just ignore the scum" stuff isn't unreasoanble, but the way he's focusing on "ignoring the scum" but then not actually doing anything else other then attacking me for a theory disagreement seems pretty scummy. The arguments he's been using to attack me have been pretty thin anyway; it was basically just the theory disagreement, and him completly misrepresenting my attacks against Cobbler.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Yosarian2 wrote:DrippingGoofball wrote:Hey guys
Since I'm going to be vig'ed - why don't you lynch me? Really, being vig'ed is a frikkin' embarrassment. I die at the hands of scum, or I die from a lynch.
DGB
DGB: Please don't do your kamakazi thing this game. It's really not helpful.
I don't think you're going to get vigged, but even if you were, we really want to lynch scum today andwipe out one of the scum groups. If you are town, which you probably are, this is not going to help the town here.
Hold it.
What do you mean by the bolded?
This is a white flag game. If the only surviving member of a scum group is the cult leader, the scum group is gone. So, assuming that each cult recruited one person on night 1, if we find and lynch one of those two recruits today, then we wipe out that cult group completely.
We went over this a lot on the earlier pages of the game.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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ooba wrote:Yos, then let's vote him. Your vote on xvart is wasted now anyway. Or are you waiting for a VC to confirm that?
I'm pretty sure batoussi already admitted that his whole "pardon" thing was just a silly gambit and is not actually a role ability.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
The bolded was what I was looking for.
I'm interested in why you're making this assumption.
That's what we've all been assuming, seems to make the most sense with the facts we have. Why, what alternate theory are you proposing for the setup?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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populartajo wrote:
im not only attacking you, MR IMPORTANT
Really.
Name one relevant contribution you've made this game other then attacking me for a mafia theory disagreement, and your odd defense of Cobbler.
how Im misrepresenting your attacks against Cobbler?
You said:
populartajo wrote:
Yosa is acting really weird, supporting the cobbler wagon with a weak argument (the fakeclaim) which is scummy as feck
You described my attack against him as "a weak argument (the fakeclaim)", when what I was actually saying which was a comment that it's incredibly unlikely that a townie unrecruitable would claim unrecruitable with 3 votes on him.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Yosarian2 wrote:Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
The bolded was what I was looking for.
I'm interested in why you're making this assumption.
That's what we've all been assuming, seems to make the most sense with the facts we have. Why, what alternate theory are you proposing for the setup?
I'm proposing that one of the two following must be true:
There are no Recruit Immune Roles in this game!
Each Mob Lieutenant recruits more than 1 player pre-game!
Because if both are true, then that would mean thata mafia faction can lose the game in pre-game, by selecting a recruit immune role.
And there's no way that Flay would make this setup with that possibility in it.
It's much more likely that if a scum fails to recruit pre-game (and only if a scum fails to recruit pre-game) that they get another chance. Either that, or the White Flag rules don't apply until there's at least two scum.
The possibility you're talking about can happen about even without unrecrutable roles; what happens if they both target the same person, for example? One of them must fail, and then is that the end of the scum group if that happens night zero?
In any case, there almost has to be some way for scum to fail (either unrecruitable roles, or a cult doc, or something) or else town really can't win even if they lynch right every night. (With a vig, it's theoretically possible, but town probably needs more help then just that.)
(shrug) Your other possibility could be right, but I doubt it. The game is already going to be really, really hard for town to win. It's possible that scum get multiple recruitments on day zero, or a few people started out as recruits or something, but frankly, that just seems unfair.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Magister Ludi wrote:This shows pretty clearly that Yos isn't reading the game which he said he was, but thats not the biggest problem (though it is a problem).
I've already responded to that, ML. You obviously aren't reading my posts. Either that, or you just don't care about the actual answer to your questions, you're just trying to stir up some BS.
The fact is that he's incorporating emotion into his posts, talk of 'quitting' 'being insulted' and other such things. It appears to me that he is using it to make himself appear to be the 'good-guy' and so no one lynches him.
So, what; I tell the truth and that makes me scum?
Of course I'm insulted when someone accuses me of not reading the game. I don't know how you could actually think that at this point. And as for the rest, you're taking the rest of it out of context, probably deliberately so; I never threatened to quit this game or whatever you're talking about, I just mentioned the frequency I get lynched in order to counter a false meta-argument someone used to attack me.
I'm really starting to run out of patience with you just repeating the same BS over and over again to attack me even when you have to know that you're wrong, when you should be actually scumhunting.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Ooba, I'm saying that two people got scum role PM's from Flay. They were already scum with the Recruiters. They were not recruited.
If each scum groups starts with two members, and then gets another one each day, while the town can only lynch one person a day, how could town possibly win?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Magister Ludi wrote:Yos, did you remember saying this about quitting?
"It's unbelievably frustrating. I don't know if I'm getting worse or if everyone else is, but it's to the point where I'm thinking about just quitting mafia for a while after my current games are over. "
That has nothing to do with this game at all. It was a general comment, because I'm frustrated with being run up for absolutely retarted reasons or no reason at all every single game I play. The only real relevence of that post was I was correcting the misconception that I never get lynched.
Really, I'm not repeating the same 'bs' over and over again. I brought up quite a valid point, in my opinion, about the progression of events where you asked the CR a question they had already answered (and I asked) and I said I had already asked, you denied it, said yours was different, and when I accused you of not reading the game (which It seemed like you hadn't) you get insulted. What am I missing here, really?
The fact that the question was completly different, and I already explained why it was completley different? The fact that a general "What top 5 players do you think are good players who you might want to recruit" question leaves them a hell of a lot more room for random BS then a more specific "Who did you recruit last night"? Neither one is likely to get a streight answer, of course, but the response mine got was more useful.
And as for 'scumhunting', I think i've done quite well in that regard.
Hardly. All you do is keep attacking me for changing, meaningless "reasons" that don't make any sense and don't have anything to do with my alignment in this game. You spent your posts from 0-16 "trying to get into the minds" of Albert and Kinetic, and then the rest of your posts attacking me for doing the same thing. You haven't really commented on the major wagons at all. You made a quick, silly "hand of suspicion" on Battousi, and then never mentioned it again.
You've done a complete turn around here, from spending your first 17 posts obsessing about every word spoken by Albert and Kinetic, to this:
Magister Ludi wrote:The only time I would really consider the CR's information at all useful is when they are trying to take out or damage the other recruiter. Other than that, avoid it.
And the only reason I can think of for this change is that if you take that stance now, it lets you continue to launch BS attacks against me.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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Magister Ludi wrote:
And as for commenting on the major wagons, there are two, I repeat, TWO cult recruits alive in the game. That means there are only TWO anti-town people running about. If I believe I have nailed them, why waste time at all commenting on any other people in the game?
I have you for one recruit, I had Batt as the other. Chrono's lurking/anti-town behavior has me worried though, and I think it is now a distinct possibility that he was recruited just as you were.
Well, you're obviously wrong about at least one of those. More to the point, I'm trying to figure out if you've been recruited or not, so i want to hear your thoughts about people other then "two people you can safely make halfharted attacks against to look busy because they're probably not going to get lynched today." Your case against Battousi, especially, is pretty terrible, and I think it's pretty unlikely he's scum here; I really don't think that a scum who just wants to survive day 1 at all costs would draw all kinds of attention to themselves like he has with his silly gambits.
I'm trying to figure out if all of your "scumhunting" is just you trying to look active, because none of it really looks like you're saying anything you really expect to be taken seriously.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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populartajo wrote:yosa, seriously, why cobblerfone?
do you seriously think kin and abr would have gone with a risky selection and predicted people buying the wifom to not lynch a weak player?
(shrug)
Out of my top 4 suspects, 2 of them are the "WIFOM outguess the CR's" suspects, people who I suspect because of a combination of their likeliness to be recruited and their behavior (you and Xvart), while the other two are just incredibly scummy, the most likely suspects if you ignore WIFOM stuff and look at their behavior (cobblerfone and Magister Ludi).
The WIFOM "outguess the recruiters" stuff is useful and does have it's place, but I am strongly tempted to just ignore it and lynch people who are acting like scum. Because, yes, if the scum's only goal was for their first recruit to survive the first day, it's possible that a recruiter might have been counting on us not lynching a new player today. Especially if the recruiter personally had reason to believe that they were a decent player, just an unknown one.
Cobblerfone, Magister Ludi: Have either of you ever played with Kinetic or Albert before?I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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LL: IF I were you, I'd ignore it. We already know Kinetic is scum; if he talks about actual game related stuff, it could work to our advantage, but if we let him distract the town into a pointless side conversation that slows us down, worsens the signal/noise ratio, and waste valuable time, it only helps him and hurts us. Kinetic is smart, he doesn't do anything without a reason, and this is probably a gambit. It looks like he's trying to bait you for tactical reasons, trying to make you mad and keep you talking about non-game-related stuff to make you look worse, to both stall and confuse the town and probably make you easier to lynch. Don't fall for it.
In related news, I am pretty convinced now that at least Kinetic did not recruit Lady Lambdadelta. Baiting your lone cult recruit like that, making them more visible, would be terrible play; and I also don't think LL would get this angry at her cult recruiter, and, no offense, but I don't think she's probably the kind of player who's willing or able to fake that kind of anger. That doesn't prove she's town, of course, but it lowers the odds of her being scum.I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie-
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Yosarian2 (shrug)
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