Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[bvoigt]

/confirm. For the record, my church supports exotic dancing.

[bvoigt]

@Ludi: Why would you prefer speculation over typical scumhunting?

What are these dates? And why are they the recruits because of them?

From the activity report, look at the lower corner of the page, right side. They are not recruits because of the date.

From the 4 players that would make the best recruits, I chose the one that posted less recently. Also, xvart would be a favorite recruit from anyone's perspective.

Us teamsters need to stick together. Although, I don't like xvart's latest response. Caught scum?

The irony, so-to-speak, of my post is that DGBs case on me is based on a timestamp. Honestly, I get the idea of picking from a pool and I agree with that as a jumping off point.

Did you miss her post where she said that the timestamps weren't a reason for calling you scum?

VOTE: Cobblerfone

I don't think the part about Yosarian as the other scum was a slip; but I do think it contradicts what he said about "It would be rather odd for there to be only one recruit per team." Also, since Cobbler has stated that professions do not indicate roles, I don't know why he would worry about lynching a power role.

[bvoigt]

In other news I don't like battouasi's 206.

vote: battouasi

Why?

[bvoigt]

The irony, so-to-speak, of my post is that DGBs case on me is based on a timestamp. Honestly, I get the idea of picking from a pool and I agree with that as a jumping off point.

Did you miss her post where she said that the timestamps weren't a reason for calling you scum?

No, I didn't miss it. But out of the four people she identified as potential scum picks, I was selected because I had posted less frequently than the others (i.e. the timestamp).

In that case, don't you think you were misrepping the case on you?

@Albert: Do you have daytalk? Assuming things are symmetric between you and Kinetic, I may have a lead, but I'd rather not elaborate until you've answered.

I suppose kinetic can try answering too, but I'm not going to be overly trusting, obviously.

Are you saying you trust Albert more than Kinetic? If so, why?

Vote: Yosarian2

Vote is in a bad place. And his reasoning for it is bad on two fronts. One, if xvart is being run up to a lynch today, isn't that exactly the sort of player they would avoid? How come no one mentioned this. Sheeping vote with DGB is bad. Also, reading all pages in this thread is critical, your questions have already been asked and answered.

This is a terrible vote. By your logic, one should avoid lynching anyone who is in danger of being lynched. Also, what are you talking about when you mention "the fourth faction"?

UNVOTE: Cobblerfone
VOTE: xvart

While I don't want to get into too much WIFOM, ooba may have a point about Cobblerfone (which would also apply to Ludi). So I'll put my vote here for now.

[bvoigt]

@Magister Ludi: You seem to be almost entirely speculating about the cult recruiters' roles, and who they would be likely to choose, instead of real scumhunting. Why? Also, what did you mean by this?

You're too shy to mention the fourth faction in this game I take it?

[bvoigt]

Ludi, I think you're ignoring my question.

[bvoigt]

Xvart is closer to lynch than any, but

fos: any

. He's one to watch for tomorrow...

Ani is the backup mod.

sorry everyone. Here's it formatted correctly:

You have Katsuki listed as "decided to lurk" yet Kat is also one of your town reads. Consider me baffled at your logic here.

It was the way Kats announced the lurking. Though, it'll be bad if she's recruited. Maybe we should lynch Kats so she can't keep herself from showing a difference in playstyles?

You want to lynch a town read so she doesn't get recruited later?

[bvoigt]

You want to lynch a town read so she doesn't get recruited later?

I was asking if we should lynch her because if she gets turned we won't really know. Plus, maybe the threat will flush her out. I really just want the lurkers to stop lurking.

But, you're advocating a lynch on a town read? That doesn't make any sense to me. Also, is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness? (Sort of like "Visit" or "Tour the Neighborhood" in the sample role PMs.)

[bvoigt]

Also, is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness? (Sort of like "Visit" or "Tour the Neighborhood" in the sample role PMs.)

[bvoigt]

is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness? (Sort of like "Visit" or "Tour the Neighborhood" in the sample role PMs.)

I don't see how that would help. (Seeing as how "Visit" and "Tour the Neighborhood" are more-or-less the same power with different names.) And I've already adressed that the flavor will hint too much at my role.

If you do actually have a flavor name for being unrecruitable, it

is

important to me that you claim it. And the flavor argument doesn't work here...I'm not asking you for a reason, just a word or phrase. It will not hint at any other aspects of your role.

BTW, Ludi has ignored my question ~3 times.

[bvoigt]

@bvoigt: How about if I get to L-2? Why does it matter? Even if the flavor name was the same for every unrecruitable, the flavor would only be verifiable to other unrecruitables. Which would bring more unrecruitables unecessarily in the open. And I know it will be different because it is somewhat tied to my role.

Paraphrasing

Writing one word or phrase from a role PM takes seconds, fabricating a good fakeclaim takes an eternity.

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: Cobblerfone

Looks to me like he is struggling to come up with a suitable fakeclaim after claiming a role he didn't have.

[bvoigt]

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: Cobblerfone

Looks to me like he is struggling to come up with a suitable fakeclaim after claiming a role he didn't have.

OK. Since some of you are so very very, VERY dense. I'll explain it.

Cobblerfone is fakeclaiming unrecruitable because he doesn't want to be recruited. Claiming unrecruitable in a cult game is the equivalent of a day 1 fake dayvig in any game. I'm surprised and disappointed that there aren't more people doing it. It's the correct town play.

Cobblerfone town, leave him alone. I love him to pieces, but I wouldn't recruit him myself. I wouldn't have the heart to force him to lie to people.

It's correct town play to fakeclaim?

[bvoigt]

Cobblerfone town, leave him alone. I love him to pieces, but I wouldn't recruit him myself. I wouldn't have the heart to force him to lie to people.

<3

It's correct town play to fakeclaim?

I'm not saying anything one way or the other about me. But in this game it would at least draw attention away from any real unrecruitables. And with the added tast of WIFOM-sauce if a lot of recruitables claimed unrecruitable unrecruitables could claim unrecruitable, etc. Town WIFOM, it's amazin'!

It's easy for you to say this after DGB brought it up....

[bvoigt]

I am just saying that my vote is for sale, and it is for sale to whoever will get rid of the menace that is DGB.

*shakes first*

Fritz could only hope that he could make it so no one in his glorious city would even talk to her. He had to make sure that if she ever came public with those photos, that all her credibility would be shot.

I am going to address this tomorrow. Stay tuned. But I very much expect you to hold up your end of the bargain. Do we have a deal?


In other news, I have fully caught up, and I see no reason to move my vote. I'm quite happy with where it is currently.

If I have happened to have missed any questions aimed at me, please do ask me again.

Nothing new to say? What do you think of Cobblerfone?

[bvoigt]

xvart, Flameaxe, Porochaz, Tanarin, ooba, bvoigt

In one phrase, why would ABR and Kinetic have picked Cobbler?

WIFOM? I don't really know, but I'm going to trust scumhunting over setup speculation. And Cobbler has lied about his role, IMO.

[bvoigt]

tanarin, how does claiming unrecruitable help cobblerfone cult?

He tried to use it as an explanation to explain some earlier, scummy play.

Your first statement makes me believe that you would have recruited a doctor name role on the off chance that he would actually be a doctor; otherwise you are saying that you would have recruited him just because he had doctor in his name... Then you go on to say that you were trying to avoid lynching a potential PR, which your previously suggested is who you would have recruited. If the recruiters are behaving in the same manner that you are you should be lynching that person. And, your bail on that wagon makes no sense because you wanted to avoid lynching a potential PR so why did you jump on that wagon to begin with. You are obviously trying to sneak onto whatever wagon you can without making waves and then when you do make waves change your story.

I know the role I have. I was halfway sure that all teamsters might've had it too. To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable. The scum will have to lynch or kill me. That's the difference that made me not want to lynch you.

[bvoigt]

That was redundant, but you get what I meant.

[bvoigt]

I just can't see cobbler being a recruit, especially since he claimed what he claimed.

Did you really think his claim was believable?

[bvoigt]

I just can't see cobbler being a recruit, especially since he claimed what he claimed.

Did you really think his claim was believable?

I think thats sort of the point. It's so unbelievable I doubt scum would claim it.
Imo he's town telling the truth but presenting it in a very awkward way, or town lying about his role.

Is Cobbler lying about his role as town a more likely scenario than him being scum? I can definitely see newbie scum making a claim the way he did.

[bvoigt]

@Battousai: I would also like to know flavor, please. Also, will the mod tell us that xvart is unable to be lynched?

[bvoigt]

What's anti-town about it?

[bvoigt]

Ooba, I'm saying that two people got scum role PM's from Flay. They were already scum with the Recruiters. They were not recruited.

If this is the case, then we can't let Cobbler off the hook just for being a newbie.

[bvoigt]

It also explains why he would fakeclaim, if he didn't ever have a town role.

[bvoigt]

why are we talkign about vigging dgb??

she is townier than town

NS dont be dumb

we should lynch from this pool of suspects: yosarian, spring, hero, tanarin

Yes, yes, dont see it, no.

try Lady Lambda, who has not really posted much likable since she joined.

What's your read on Yosarian?

[bvoigt]

Bvgoit, did you not read the past few pages where I outlined how badly Poro wanted Yos lynched, and how little (read: none) reasoning he gave for it?

He has a "scum" read on Yos.

But he also said "No" to a Yos lynch.

[bvoigt]

Post edit: Where did I say no to a lynch on yos?

Here, if I understood correctly.

why are we talkign about vigging dgb??

she is townier than town

NS dont be dumb

we should lynch from this pool of suspects: yosarian, spring, hero, tanarin

Yes, yes, dont see it, no.

try Lady Lambda, who has not really posted much likable since she joined.

[bvoigt]

Oh, I see what you meant.

This is a town-on-town argument.

[bvoigt]

My top 3:

Cobblerfone
springlullaby
xvart

@Mod:

I don't think NS is selfvoting.
Fixed. -Flay

[bvoigt]

Who's scum, Kinetic?

He is.

[bvoigt]

LL: IF I were you, I'd ignore it. We already know Kinetic is scum; if he talks about actual game related stuff, it could work to our advantage, but if we let him distract the town into a pointless side conversation that slows us down, worsens the signal/noise ratio, and waste valuable time, it only helps him and hurts us. Kinetic is smart, he doesn't do anything without a reason, and this is probably a gambit. It looks like he's trying to bait you for tactical reasons, trying to make you mad and keep you talking about non-game-related stuff to make you look worse, to both stall and confuse the town and probably make you easier to lynch. Don't fall for it.

In related news, I am pretty convinced now that at least Kinetic did not recruit Lady Lambdadelta. Baiting your lone cult recruit like that, making them more visible, would be terrible play; and I also don't think LL would get this angry at her cult recruiter, and, no offense, but I don't think she's probably the kind of player who's willing or able to fake that kind of anger. That doesn't prove she's town, of course, but it lowers the odds of her being scum.

This pings hard. It smells of buddying up while trying not to be obvious by adding a light playstyle berating to the mix, and while still leaving open the option that LL might still be scum. It's just not straightforward.

VOTE YOS

I disagree. He saw that Kinetic-LLD interactions made them an unlikely scumteam, but she could be Albert's recruit. So I think Yos's post was reasonable, even if it did leave options open.

[bvoigt]

bvoigt, LLD replaced Cecily, whom we have decided was a very unlikely recruit. Do try to keep up.

Yeah, I think LLD is town, but Yos's reasoning makes sense.

[bvoigt]

UNVOTE: Cobblerfone, though I definitely prefer his lynch if there is enough support.
VOTE: xvart

[bvoigt]

Looking through Tanarin's ISO, he's had several sheepy votes. Cobblerfone, Yos, Porochaz, and now ThAd. Assuming one recruit per team, though, I'd say he's still probably town.

There's got to be some kind of ulterior motive in this switch of tallying. Whether it's to get the person YOU think is the most scummy lynched, or

a theoretical scumbuddy

into safety.

Does this really make sense? Both versions of his list had Chronopie at the top. Also, notice the bolded.

Most of us are assuming that there's only one lynchable scum per team.

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: Cobblerfone

Maybe we don't have time for this, but I'll switch back if necessary.

[bvoigt]

Unvote; Vote: Populartajo

Why?

[bvoigt]

UNVOTE: Cobblerfone
VOTE: xvart

[bvoigt]

bv/lady- Votes for a lynch at deadline are scummy. Tell me why xvart is the best lynch today or I will use my multi vig kill on you two tonight. And don't think I won't, I already fined lady once.

How so? I want a lynch, and would prefer xvart over Chronopie.

[bvoigt]

bv- Tell me why, absent of deadline, why xvart is the best lynch choice (out of everyone). The reason being is that tomorrow, all scum have to do is say "Duh, we needed a lynch so I had to vote!"

xvart isn't the best lynch choice; Cobbler is, but he isn't going to be lynched today. And scum can say that because they really were doing the pro-town thing.

As for why I prefer xvart: when DGB voted him early in the game, he misrepped her case in ISO #4, saying that it was based on a timestamp when he knew it wasn't. Then, he voted Cobblerfone in ISO #8, and was still suspicious in ISO #21. But Cobbler was nowhere to be found in his list of top 3 suspects. In fact, he wasn't even on xvart's vig list in ISO #29.

[bvoigt]

As for why I prefer xvart: when DGB voted him early in the game, he misrepped her case in ISO #4, saying that it was based on a timestamp when he knew it wasn't.

1

Then, he voted Cobblerfone in ISO #8, and was still suspicious in ISO #21

2

. But Cobbler was nowhere to be found in his list of top 3 suspects. In fact, he wasn't even on xvart's vig list in ISO #29

3

.

1

You are bringing this up again? I clearly explained this when you brought it up 38 pages ago? Even if it wasn't obvious at the time (which it should have been) my follow up explanation is perfectly reasonable: DGB narrowed a pool to people likely to be recruited and selected me

because of a timestamp

. If you didn't buy my explanation or see the fundamental reasoning behind my comment when I responded way back when why did you hold onto until a day before the deadline.

Battousai asked for my reasons for voting you. It's one of my reasons.

2

Taken out of context. I now believe Cobbler is who he claims to be. The progression of his questioning me, withholding his vote, and then when I voted for him it made him believe that our job titles were not the same, thus him being unrecruitable.

3

See above.

Sorry, I don't get what you mean with the second-to-last sentence. Could you clarify? Also, what made you decide I'm scummy? I wasn't on your first vig list, but now I am.

For someone who hasn't said much at all the entire game you sure waited until the last minute to bust out the big accusations.

Are you surprised to see that your lead wagon is having a tough time reaching the lynch threshold when most of the people on the wagon are about as active as you are? :shocked: See you in a couple days for your next one liner.

Actually, I've been doing my best to get Cobbler lynched. That's irrelevant, though. For someone who "will wear this lynch as a badge of honor," you seem pretty concerned about attacking the members of your wagon.

[bvoigt]

Also, if isn't voting either xvart or Chronopie, you need to switch to one of them.

[bvoigt]

*if anyone

[bvoigt]

Sorry, I don't get what you mean with the second-to-last sentence. Could you clarify?

Yes, my response was a little convoluted. Basically, as has been discussed, Cobbler withholding his vote on me and the manner in which his posts came forward show that he was under the impression that I might have been unrecruitable, too. When I voted him, from his perspective, I didn't think the same of him and his role. So then he voted for me.

But he voted for you just before ISO #9. You continued to make a case on him in ISO #11, and kept your vote on him for a while after that.

Also, what made you decide I'm scummy? I wasn't on your first vig list, but now I am.

When I was responding to your last post and went back through your ISO I realized how you haven't really taken any stands, been very involved, and been very active; so therefore you fell into the category of people playing like a recruit likely is playing.

I guess that's reasonable.

For someone who "will wear this lynch as a badge of honor," you seem pretty concerned about attacking the members of your wagon.

Yes; if and when I get lynched I will; but that doesn't mean I assume my lynch is a forgone conclusion and therefore have not resigned my fate. Look at my wagon. How would classify your counterparts on my wagon?

The Chronopie wagon contains just as many questionables or lurkers: xvart, Cobblerfone, Seraphim (until he switched), Magister Ludi, and Zdenek. And I have more town reads on your wagon: Yosarian2, ThAdmiral, DrippingGoofball (although she switched now), Nobody Special, and Lady Lambdadelta.

Also, if isn't voting either xvart or Chronopie, you need to switch to one of them.

What a helpful post since this has been said ad naseum in the last few pages.

People aren't getting it; we have at least five useless votes out there.

You're not cult. I have to find another victim.

Can you explain?

[bvoigt]

What has Nobody Special done to make him town?

I forget the exact reason, TBH. But he gives me a feeling of sincerity.

@DGB: Why'd you change your mind?

[bvoigt]

UNVOTE: xvart
VOTE: Chronopie

Jesus.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Cobblerfone

Still my first choice.

ooba, where did Seraphim mention anything about a "track"?

[bvoigt]

"I know one of abr's recruits (X) due to my ability"

"Tell me who, not your ability"

"Tell me who X targetted, not his ability"

But the "not his ability" part would imply that he knew the ability.

That plan looks flawed from the start (does It matter which of Kinetic or ABR recruited someone)

So I'm infering right now you have no particular opinion on who may have been recruited night one?

What makes it flawed? IIRC, you were the one who was most willing to trust speculation on who was recruited.

[bvoigt]

Actually, I may have misread that. I thought she was saying, who would you recruit if you were scum? IIRC = If I recall correctly.

[bvoigt]

@Porochaz and Ludi: Why are you voting DGB?

@Kinetic: So you recruited her?

[bvoigt]

@DGB: Was your plan to ask, who would have recruited you? Or, who would you have recruited?

[bvoigt]

@DGB: Was your plan to ask, who would have recruited you? Or,

who would you have recruited

?

Ludi, does this change your opinion of DGB? You said, "How is it helpful if anyone states they think the most likely cult recruiter to recruit them would be (insert Kinetic or ABR)?" Now we've learned that isn't what she was asking.

FTR, MY REASON HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH KINETIC

SECRET SCUMTELL FROM DGB

Secret scumtell?

We already know the cult recruiters aren't trying to help town, only trying to further their own ends. (I'm not even basing my vote off Kinetics comment, and I dont think anyone but yourself on your wagon is)

We dont need town players to die for us to realize the cult recruiters are playing to their win condition.

Self-voting as town is just horrible. With double cult. And as a potential 'power role'.

I can only consider you cult.

But it doesn't make sense for cult to vote themselves, either. It's just bad play, no matter what your alignment is.

Why would Kinetic think that. I realize this is going to sound scummy as all heck, but maybe I was

protected

from being culted last night as per my explicit request, and failing to recruit me, Kinetic thinks it's because ABR did. In this context, Kinetic's actions make sense, but even I, proposing this, would estimate the chances of this having happened as

significantly

less than 5%.

This explanation actually makes sense, IMO.

@Claim from Yos: It really doesn't matter if Yos claims or not. From this point on, unless a person is recuritable or a commuter or a hider, it doesn't matter what their role is. If they are culted, they have a fake claim which would be their town role.

But if he claims, it gives the cult more information about what they're up against, and about whether or not they'd want to recruit him.

[bvoigt]

DGB has a point about Magister Ludi, but I still want a Cobbler lynch. Reminder: when he claimed unrecruitable, I asked for the flavor name (not flavor reason). This would be a word or phrase in bold, and would not indicate any other powers. He refused. This makes me believe that he's lying about his role. What do you guys think?

[bvoigt]

DGB has a point about Magister Ludi, but I still want a Cobbler lynch. Reminder: when he claimed unrecruitable, I asked for the flavor name (not flavor reason). This would be a word or phrase in bold, and would not indicate any other powers. He refused. This makes me believe that he's lying about his role. What do you guys think?

That un-recruitable thing is a fakeclaim, come on.

Exactly.

The following six people should each state which of them are most likely to have been recruited:
Bvoight, Fritzler, Flameaxe, Ooba, Porochaz, Populartajo

Do you mean from a cult perspective, or based on their play so far today?

[bvoigt]

@Cobbler: What do you mean, your "unrecruitableness is unsure"?

[bvoigt]

The following six people should each state which of them are most likely to have been recruited:
Bvoight, Fritzler, Flameaxe, Ooba, Porochaz, Populartajo

Fritzler, then Flameaxe and ooba. Porochaz came under some suspicion yesterday, and I just can't see populartajo as scum with the way he's playing right now.

[bvoigt]

@Cobbler: What do you mean, your "unrecruitableness is unsure"?

It means I asked Mr. Flay if I was unrecruitable. He said he couldn't answer. (paraphrased of coursed) Therefore, I assumed I was unrecruitable and still do.

So it did

not

say you were unrecruitable in your role PM?

[bvoigt]

So it did not say you were unrecruitable in your role PM?

No it didn't. Not outright, I simply guessed because of the wording. For the timeframe, let's see, I think I asked Mr. Flay at around the same time that RaudhrGarm soft-claimed to be vanilla.

It really didn't seem like you were saying that yesterday.

Let me last at least one night. If I'm scum the other scum will kill me anyway. From what I understand if the recruiters try to recruit an unrecruitable or another scum, the recruitment becomes a kill. I only read up to where Seraphim got replaced out in Succession I. I'll read the end to find out if it's explained there. (and assuming similiar mechanics.)

"From what you understand"? Why would you make this kind of speculation when you don't even know you're unrecruitable yourself?

[bvoigt]

....I think the only goal of his fakeclaim was to not be lynched on day 1, and it did accomplish that.

That only makes sense if we're looking for

recruiters

. We're not.

But with tree stump recruiters/white flag, it was just as important to survive Day 1.

[bvoigt]

I'm only interested in lynching Cobble or DGB today. I believe both are lying cultbags.

If DGB is cult how is she lying if she literally said she's cult?

This is a terrible twisting of words. What difference does it make?

[bvoigt]

If I say they might stop acting suspicious.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot. My suspect. It's Lady Lambadelta. She was extremely verbose on day one, and now it's almost like she's left the game. Her latest post is just a vote for me with nothing else with no explanation even though she thought I was town on day one.

LLD didn't even post between these two posts. What made you change your mind and decide to announce your suspicions?

HOLY HELL
THOSE DGB/CR INTERACTIONS ARE TERRIBAD.
WE HAVE CULT HERE FOLKS.

VOTE: DGB

What about their interactions? I still don't find DGB scummy at all.

UNVOTE: Cobblerfone
VOTE: Porochaz

[bvoigt]

LLD didn't even post between these two posts. What made you change your mind and decide to announce your suspicions?

I'll post who they are tomorrow if they haven't posted til then.

Oh, I missed that, sorry. Still don't see the point, but whatever.

[bvoigt]

We're limiting the lynch to the list I arbitrarily came up with because my guilty result was on one of the people from that list.

Wait...what?

Are you saying that you are a cop with a guilty, but you aren't going to tell us who you got a guilty on?

What the heck is going on in this game? Did everyone get "must talk in overly cryptic terms" as a post restriction or something?

I might or might not have that posting restriction.

Have you played with scum!Katsuki? 'cause she was scum in my most recent completed game. Add in her somewhat changed style from D1 and I'm convinced. Now, where have you been, hmm?

Yeah, LLD has played with Katsuki as scum. From what I remember, Kats was significantly more active in that game. What about her style has changed?

[bvoigt]

Yeah, LLD has played with Katsuki as scum. From what I remember, Kats was significantly more active in that game. What about her style has changed?

HOLY HELL
THOSE DGB/CR INTERACTIONS ARE TERRIBAD.
WE HAVE CULT HERE FOLKS.

VOTE: DGB

She goes from being somewhat indifferent D1, going so far as to "lurk until my eventual mislynch", to posting in all caps using this awful case as an excuse to vote DGB.

She's still being pretty lurky, and used some caps lock on Day 1 as well. That's probably just a playstyle thing, anyway.

[bvoigt]

So we have a list of players made by Hero, people question him "Oh I have a guilty on one of them, thats why!", Why do it like that? Seems clear to me he dug himself a hole and is desperately trying to dig himself out with whatever shit gets thrown at him. Why take the actions he did? Why fanny around asking questions of all the players when he supposedly knew who to vote? This is yet another clear fakeclaim/recruited scum claim and Im suprised that even the better players are going for it when even without the initial list and questioning which detracts from his claim, its iffy. Those who have read Succession 1 will know what Im talking about. ReaperCharlie anyone? He was cop which got recruited by BBM early on and then managed to influence the town massively whilst doing BBM's bidding. You ask me not to mention Suc. 1. but its the exact same situation here.

This looks like a scum reaction to me.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Cobblerfone

I'm still convinced he's scum.

[bvoigt]

everyone, thoughs of tanarin in next post plz

His play has been so-so. I haven't really seen any towntells, but there's nothing that would make him a likely recruit choice, either.

Also:

Vote: Herodotus

Why Herodotus? This is going to be WIFOM, but I really don't think he was a likely recruit for Night 2. There's a good chance we have a cult doctor in this large of a game, and Hero would be the obvious protection choice. Even if there is no cult doc, scum would have no way to know that.

I believe the roleclaims of Seraphim and Magister Ludi, but that doesn't mean they have town alignment, of course.

I actually think Kinetic is telling the truth about another scum group. Just a few pages ago, Bunnylover was being oddly picky about using the word "cult" instead of "scum." I also remember early in the game, Magister Ludi mentioned something about "the fourth faction." Now he's claimed his role, and I don't think there was any explanation of that comment.

On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that Porochaz was actually Kinetic's recruit, and that part is just trying to throw us off. Poro's role was listed as Recruited Business Owner; that doesn't sound like mafia to me. I know there was a link to the page on Mafia Goons, but Albert and Kinetic have a link to the Tree Stump page that says it is a town role, so....

[bvoigt]

You're too shy to mention the fourth faction in this game I take it?

Ludi, did you ever explain this?

[bvoigt]

bv, flameaxe- So, why are you still voting cobbler?

I still think he's scum?

[bvoigt]

Also, softclaim/will not explain further: cobbler's chance at being a recruit is low.

I won't explain further, but you just don't believe what I'm saying or are you just trying to waste your vote for the day so you can late wagon at deadline to avoid suspicion?

Yes, I know that last part was pointed, but I'm in a pointy mood today.

He has a low chance, but there's still a chance, right? I think Cobbler was the Night 0 recruit-- he lied about his role on Day 1.

[bvoigt]

Cobbler wagon has slim to no chance of coming to fruition today, so how about this

bv, flame- If I dayvig cobbler and he flips as town aligned, and the day doesn't end right there, who would you think is scum?

xvart: The points I made here still apply.

Katsuki: He's pushing a pretty lousy case on DGB; I'm pretty sure she is town. Actually:

UNVOTE: Cobblerfone
VOTE: Katsuki

[bvoigt]

Seraphim's claim does seem funny, but I don't see the scum motivation to softclaim out of the blue the way he did if he didn't actually have the role.

[bvoigt]

I'll be V/LA from the 2nd through the 4th.

[bvoigt]

Where was the failed chance they had to recruit you?

That's exactly what I've been trying to say in my posts, on this very page. I put down my scum hunting calculations, and that's when I realized that if Kinetic tried to recruit me and failed, then Poro might have been his only recruit, unless they can recruit on N0 and have a limited number of possible recruits? I don't know. I also said, I don't know anymore why Kinetic thinks I'm ABR's recruit, it may or may not be a failed recruitment attempt. If it did come from failed recruitment, then there is some weirdness in the recruitment mechanism.

This reads as an uninformed townie to me. Not a cultist pretending to scumhunt.

[bvoigt]

If there was N0 recruiting, then Katsuki or tajo is still scum.

I can't decide which, though.

Tajo's pretty contaminated upon re-reading.

Can I have opinions from the rest of you, regarding tajo vs. Katsuki?

I can't see the forest from the trees. One of these two is scum. Maybe even both.

I think tajo is town, but can't really pinpoint an exact reason.

Question for all: who has a town read on DGB and why?

I do. One reason is gut-- it doesn't make sense for scum to play the way she has. I also see the post I quoted here as a towntell. And her case on Katsuki is actually pretty reasonable.

[bvoigt]

Let's lynch Katsuki already.

DGB is still town.

[bvoigt]

Let's lynch Katsuki already.

DGB is still town.

Please tell me why you're being blind/stupid/arrogant/foolhardy/insert_demoralizing_adjective_of_choice.

We've got time.

I could ask you the same thing.

[bvoigt]

ML, that font is annoying.

[bvoigt]

I detect contradiction. What makes you prefer a DGB vote over a Herodotus one, even though you think he "is likely cult"? Which cult is best kept alive and which isn't not? Why is your stated reasoning concerning Herodotus there not in keeping with what you said just now about not caring about which cult DGB is in.

That's not a contradiction. Tajo wasn't leaving Herodotus alive because he was the recruit of a certain cultist; he was allowing him to live for being a cult cop.

Now, though I find you stalling for a very long time my very simple question is quite scummy, I'm prepared to hear your justification. Maybe there is a good reason for you terribly scummy contradiction here. Or maybe you are

ABR

Kinetic's recruit, and we can make friend and talk over tea.

(I added the EBWOP so my question will make sense.) Why couldn't Tajo be ABR's recruit?

Cobbler is someone I can't figure out, I'm asking him in an attempt to figure why, sorry to say this, he is all over the place.

How does that question help you "figure him out?"

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Darox, I suppose.

[bvoigt]

VOTE: Darox, I suppose.

What does the "I suppose" mean in this context?

Nothing in particular...I probably would have started off with a springlullaby vote, but she was nightkilled.

Why wouldn't Kinetic (or ABR, previously) just recruit the town-aligned killing roles, rather than 'find' them? You aren't making sense, unless you know something I don't.

You have to find power roles to recruit them.

[bvoigt]

These people didn't post near deadline OR posted but did not try and push Katsuki:

Bunny Lover
Bvoigt
ConSpiracy
Herodotus
Ooba
Seraphim
Darox
Zdenek

That's actually a pretty good point-- Kinetic recruits wouldn't expect Katsuki to be scum. However Bunny, Zdenek, Fritzler/Con and I were actually on the Katsuki wagon. Ooba, on the other hand, voted Katsuki, but then unvoted "until he claims." Then, he said:

I'm willing to wait one more day to hear Katsuki out .. Lynching him before then is a mistake ..

Two days later, he posted V/LA, and never did end up voting Kats.

P. Edit: I feel like spring was more likely as a vig kill. What do you think?

[bvoigt]

P. Edit: I feel like spring was more likely as a vig kill. What do you think?

A vig wouldn't have robbed the bank.

Hmm, I guess that does seem like strange flavor.

Also, on Katsuki, I was right about wanting the claim. Pretty sure one cult would have inside info on other cult or at least heavily suspect who could be members of the other cult. All multi-scum games involve one group ratting on the other - Off the top of my head {Pirates vs Ninjas, Star Wars Mafia}.

Yeah, it's always best to get a claim. But my point was that you said you would vote for him if he didn't claim in the next day, and then you never did.

[bvoigt]

Bv- Just because they were on the wagon, it doesn't mean anything, really. I would actually expect them to be on the wagon. It pushes it to lynch, then at the same time, they ignore it so they aren't really in people's mind for when they think who pushed for the mislynch.

I disagree...those who are on the wagon will still be held responsible in VCA, etc.

[bvoigt]

I would be in favor of Battousai claiming where he was last night.

[bvoigt]

Now what would be the fun in that?

If you weren't going to fullclaim, then why did you claim at all?

Did you read through this game and decide "Hey, you know what this game needs? More vague softclaims that give the town no information and do nothing useful at all!"

(I've never been able to use this before.)

Results? Results!

VOTE: bvoigt

Is this claiming a guilty?

[bvoigt]

I just ISO'ed Tanarin, and his play has been scummier than I expected. I know this was back on Day 1, but he votes Cobblerfone here, and Porochaz here (ISO #13). But in ISO #15, Cobbler and Porochaz aren't on his top 3, even though he's still voting Poro. It doesn't look like sincere scumhunting to me. Also, he calls the votes on DGB "opportunistic" here,

after

Kinetic had begun insisting she was scum, but later he changes his mind and decides that "there HAS to be a reason why kinetic wants DGB dead."

[bvoigt]

So Darox is still scummy - Tanarin + Amished tell on replacing in: "Unvote because I'm targeting a cool person;" he also criticizes Tanarin later.

That isn't really the Amished-tell, in my opinion. It's pretty common to unvote in your first post as a replacement. I'm not a fan of your Flameaxe vote, either-- he's a town read at this point.

[bvoigt]

Regarding Flameaxe,

he's a town read at this point.

Why?

Mostly for this post, which contains some good reasoning and scumhunting. The case he just posted reaffirms that read.

To be clear, I did not target bvoigt last night.

After his pathetic reaction, i'd still be okay with lyching him.

I still prefer this:

Vote: Flameaxe

What was scummy about my reaction? Also, what do you mean by "fake symmetry"?

[bvoigt]

Mostly for this post, which contains some good reasoning and scumhunting. The case he just posted reaffirms that read.

For the record, here Flameaxe's post:

[snip, check the post above]

First of all, making cases is not necessarily townie. Second of all, his good reasoning is pointing out that he unvoted Katsuki, nothing has changed about his thoughts on Cobbler, Cecily was "sketchy" and others, for instance me, had pointed out the change in LLD's play before that, he makes some sort of case against me, calling it gut, saying that the posts don't stand out (as though that is some sort of scum tell), it's true that I haven't pushed any wagons too hard, but Katsuki and Porochaz where obviously good lynches that I didn't need to push. Tajo is also a gut read.

I am not seeing good reasoning here.

For one thing, the Cobblerfone case was made in previous days, but it was well-reasoned. Although he could have been recruited since then, a town read from Day 2 or 3 or whatever still decreases the chance of someone being scum. And while he did say the case on you was "mostly gut," there are concrete reasons to back it up: throwing out names without truly pushing wagons, committing to few opinions and votes, and passivity.

What was scummy about my reaction? Also, what do you mean by "fake symmetry"?

You acted like scum trying to be cool when someone claimed a guilty on you rather than like town who someone is lying about. Your other question was answered above.

Well, even if he did claim a guilty on me, I wouldn't be convinced he's scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for claiming a false guilty, because it would undoubtedly result in a 1-for-1 trade. Instead, I would wonder if there is a framer or something.

Here we see Flameaxe doing what Porochaz did day one - shutting down discussion by attempting to predict the reaction to a comment he is making, rather than allowing the discussion to proceed naturally.

Here we see Zdenek picking out the one useless throwaway part of my comments towards him, and deciding to make another throwaway comment back, rather than proceeding with discussion naturally.

Two way street.

I describe something that he did, and then he describes something that I did, in an identical way, except when he does it, the comment doesn't apply.

It's slightly obnoxious, but there's nothing scummy about copying your wording. And I think Flameaxe has a valid point here-- at the time, you hadn't commented on the main part of his post, just a "throwaway" line.

[bvoigt]

eh, I think bvoigt is cult now, something about his passive way of dealing with the supposed guilty on him:

"Is this claiming a guilty?"

doesn't ring true as a town who thinks someone is reaction testing on him.

Yes, that tickled my spidey sense too, but I wasn't sure about this.

At first I found it odd that he did that, thinking about that a little more it is obvious to react like that.
Town would be sceptical of a guilty. Scum would overreact on it.
The only thing that's odd is that he questioned it and not said that it wasn't true.

What would be the point? Regardless of alignment, I'm not just going to claim cult.

[bvoigt]

I think Darox should fullclaim.

[bvoigt]

@Con: What makes it a scumpost?

[bvoigt]

@Con: What makes it a scumpost?

Call me CS, dammit!

He just want others to figure out what is going on and gives a reason to vote for a lynch on Darox/DGB and Hero.

I read day 1 and one of these guys Kinetic recruited day 1 in order from most likely to least likely:

Day 1 recruit list

Bvoigt

– Does hardly anything but flavour discussion/rolefishing and lurks just enough to not do anything and get away with it. Worst change of vote ever with the worst reason ever ("Jesus")

Ooba

– Reasoning is bad, would make a nice First recruit, lurky but not scummy lurky.

Tanarin

– Lurky and didn’t do anything townish, ignored all day by everyone but tajo

Herodotus

– Bad and lurky and used only WIFOMish reasons

Seraphim

– Promising but no content.

All others are not day 1 recruit. Next days will point out which of these can be striped of the list to have one/two left.

I'm not a fan of any of these reasons. You mention lurking for all 5-- however, there are several lurky players you don't mention, like Bunnylover and Zdenek. And the other points are just as bad. By flavor discussion and rolefishing, are you referring to how I tried to get Cobblerfone lynched because I didn't believe his claim? And that "worst change of vote ever" was made just before the deadline to avoid a no-lynch. Furthermore, I thought ooba's reasoning on Day 1 was pretty good (here, for example).

For one thing, the Cobblerfone case was made in previous days, but it was well-reasoned. Although he could have been recruited since then, a town read from Day 2 or 3 or whatever still decreases the chance of someone being scum. And while he did say the case on you was "mostly gut," there are concrete reasons to back it up: throwing out names without truly pushing wagons, committing to few opinions and votes, and passivity.

So you think Flameaxe is town because he made a case against Cobbler and gave some reasons to be suspicious of someone.

Also, there is no chance that any recruiter would have recruited Cobbler after Day 1. The fact that your even suggesting it is a pretty good reason for you to be lynched because it shows that you aren't thinking like a townie, and are just making stuff up.

Yes, I thought he made a good case against Cobbler, the player whom I thought was most likely to be scum on Day 1. What, in your opinion, is incorrect or scummy about that? And when I was saying that "he could have been recruited since then," I was referring to Flameaxe.

Well, even if he did claim a guilty on me, I wouldn't be convinced he's scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for claiming a false guilty, because it would undoubtedly result in a 1-for-1 trade. Instead, I would wonder if there is a framer or something.

That's not what I was getting at. You were trying to play it cool, and now, you are showing that you were thinking like scum, and looking for ways to argue against his claim, rather than simply knowing before hand that it was false.

I now prefer bvoigt to Flameaxe.

Unvote
Vote bvoigt

Um...the easiest way to argue against Hero's claim would be to call him scum. And I just explained why I didn't really think the claim was a complete lie.

[bvoigt]

CS: Bunnylover and Zdenek are just two examples. Dry-fit and Chronopie flipped town already. It's true that Katsuki lurked, but IIRC, he wasn't recruited until later in the game. And Porochaz was one of the most active players. I don't see how you can say that (what you consider) lurking is a scumtell when there are a number of townies who have lurked.

I was trying to catch Battousai in a lie the same way I probably did with Cobbler. How does it benefit scum to have flavor in the open when everyone except the cult recruiters starts with a town role PM?

We were in serious danger of a no lynch, and with my switch, the Chrono wagon had 2 more than the xvart wagon. I strongly disagree that a lynch was unnecessary, but whatever.

In that second post you linked, what makes ooba's response to DGB scummy?

[bvoigt]

Where?

[bvoigt]

I see no reason for Darox to fakeclaim here, so I believe the role. I still think he's scum, though.

I wasn't in Succession 1, but Mr. Flay said the Bodyguard was "type 3, sorta." And the 3rd role listed on the Bodyguard wiki page says: "A role that has a 50% chance of successfully protecting the target and finds out his target's attacker, and a 50% chance that the Bodyguard dies instead."

CS: Bunnylover and Zdenek are just two examples. Dry-fit and Chronopie flipped town already. It's true that Katsuki lurked, but IIRC, he wasn't recruited until later in the game. And Porochaz was one of the most active players. I don't see how you can say that (what you consider) lurking is a scumtell when there are a number of townies who have lurked.

I was trying to catch Battousai in a lie the same way I probably did with Cobbler. How does it benefit scum to have flavor in the open when everyone except the cult recruiters starts with a town role PM?

We were in serious danger of a no lynch, and with my switch, the Chrono wagon had 2 more than the xvart wagon. I strongly disagree that a lynch was unnecessary, but whatever.

In that second post you linked, what makes ooba's response to DGB scummy?

So? At that point there were just 2 scum-recruits. At least that's most likely. We don't know at the moment who was recruited first, do we? Kats lurked badly. From the activity scale it seems like Poro lurked badly, but you should read his ISO. One-liners are not posts and kabam! He suddenly has less posts than you.
Having unrecruitable flavour out in the open? You don't see any benefit? That's laughable.
Every flavour scum has, means another out in fakeclaims. And what is town's benefits in knowing Batt's govern flavour? Most likely there isn't any other governor, so no busting possible.
Agree to disagree on the lynch. Anyways, I still see it as a scummy move.
Not scummy, but bad reasoning.

According to Albert, he recruited Katsuki because Kats saw his QT during Goofbash.

As far as I know, everyone started out with a town role PM except the two cult recruiters, so there's no need for any fakeclaim flavor. And I don't even see how having govern flavor out in the open helps scum fakeclaim anyway, since like you said, there wouldn't be two governors in the same game.

You said that ooba's bad logic was one of the reasons that he was a likely recruit on Day 1. Now you're saying it wasn't scummy?

[bvoigt]

On the other hand, if someone could confirm that he targeted Hero the last two nights, then I would be willing to unvote Darox.

Why? You said yourself that his role does not relate to his alignment.

[bvoigt]

Yos: See this post

bvoigt: Probably because a claimed protective role protecting the claimed cop two nights in a row is a pretty pro-town move. Just a guess.

when you link to the third iteration of the explanation of your claim, then there is something really wrong with it

hint: its a FAKECLAIM.

COME ON, EVERYBODY.

NS: why the vote?

Why would he fakeclaim when he presumably started with an actual town role?

@Ludi: At the beginning of Day 1, you were doing almost nothing but speculation about who would be recruited. My recent "speculation" was a result of ooba's claim and Darox's claim. Another difference is that yours was entirely WIFOM; mine was not.

There is a huge difference between claiming your role and claiming flavor. Once Cobbler and Battousai claimed a power (and Darox softclaimed), there was no reason to leave the rest of their role--the flavor--hidden. Also, the reason I thought Cobbler was fakeclaiming on Day 1, but no longer believe that anyone would fakeclaim: the claim increased his chances of surviving Day 1, but overall decreased his chances of avoiding a lynch. There's no longer a reason for scum to do that.

I've given up on Cobbler because, the fact is, he had no chance of being recruited after that Day 1.

How does making a case on Tanarin (which you cut out of that second-to-last quote) not show a town mindset? If I'm going to be lynched, I want to make a case on my suspects. Why do you call that case "WIFOM stew"? What don't you like about it?

[bvoigt]

It's true that Katsuki lurked, but IIRC, he wasn't recruited until later in the game.

How do you know this?

Albert said he recruited Katsuki because Kats saw his QT during Goofbash.

@Tajo:

Why would he fakeclaim when he presumably started with an actual town role?

[bvoigt]

I've given up on Cobbler because, the fact is, he had no chance of being recruited after that Day 1.

But your whole premise of voting him day one was that you thought he got RECRUITED night zero, thus, if you thought he was cult then, it makes no sense why you don't think he is cult anymore.

Let's face it: Day 1 scumhunting is not that accurate. It makes more sense to go after Darox, or ConSpiracy, or Zdenek, who might have been recruited at any point during the game.

[bvoigt]

I would prefer to wait one more day before massclaiming.

VOTE: Zdenek

[bvoigt]

I am a Cult Doctor. According to flavor, I'm a Catholic priest, and everyone is part of my flock, even if they don't regularly come to church. I can attempt to counsel someone who might fall into bad ways. My targets were DGB on N1, and Herodotus on N2-N4.

Look at your posting style previous to DGB death and now.
A difference is noted.

but you were ALREADY voting me before DGB DIED

Unvote Vote: Bunnylover

o_O Your point?
I thought you were scum yesterday.
Think your scum today.
So where are you going with this? You asked for why I voted you in that post. I told you why.
Now are you asking for why I think your scum all together? Because thats a different answer.

How does this reason make any sense? You're arguing that tajo was recruited Night 3 or earlier, and then you're arguing that he was recruited Night 4, because his posting style has changed.

Shouldn't we stop arging if we're mass-claiming? Some people who seem to think it's for the best.

What's your opinion, and why didn't you choose to give it?

[bvoigt]

Bunnylover next, please.

[bvoigt]

Okay, every body stop mass-claiming now.
Bvoigt, tell me how the church is in relation with you.

I don't really get what you're asking. I'm a priest at Holy Rosary Church.

And I intentionally left this out of my claim last time, but yes, I am unrecruitable. The flavor name is Incorruptible.

[bvoigt]

Okay, every body stop mass-claiming now.
Bvoigt, tell me how the church is in relation with you.

I don't really get what you're asking. I'm a priest at Holy Rosary Church.

And I intentionally left this out of my claim last time, but yes, I am unrecruitable. The flavor name is Incorruptible.

What is the church in relation with your PR?

The church is Catholic. It's a fixture of the River Quay. I can give my wisdom to anyone; as far as I know, they don't have to visit the church or anything like that.

@Hero: Ugh, I'm sorry. I either skipped that entirely or forgot about it.
@Zdenek: Are you a cult doc, or a regular doc? What's the flavor?

[bvoigt]

Last question:
- When you are recruitment doccing somebody, you are going to their place, right?
- Or is it more as LLD that they come to your church to pray/instead of going to the bar?

It doesn't specifically say whether I go to someone else's place or they come to me. However, as far as I know, neither I nor the person I'm protecting specifically has to use the Visit mechanic to make the recruitment protection effective.

Also, from someone who claimed already,

does your role pm make any mention of being unable to action on Kinetic because his residence is 'too hot to handle for a single officer {your role} acting alone

?

Well, I would have no reason to cult doc Kinetic, so no, it does not mention that.

[bvoigt]

1. I thought Cobbler was fakeclaiming, and I wanted him lynched.
2. That's weird, but what about it makes me scum?
3. I gave more flavor when I first claimed:

I'm a Catholic priest, and everyone is part of my flock, even if they don't regularly come to church. I can attempt to counsel someone who might fall into bad ways.

4. Like I said, my role PM doesn't have specifics about whether I visit someone or they come to me.

Finally, why would the cult leaders specifically have a role PM of someone who is unrecruitable? They obviously couldn't recruit one of those players, and I don't see why they'd have one otherwise, since they have no need to fakeclaim. I feel like you're purposely discounting the part of my claim that makes me clearly town here.

[bvoigt]

@Bunnylover: You claimed VT, but Flay's sample role PM has the word Townie. Why?

[bvoigt]

The Flameaxe thing seems like a waste of time to me. Hey ConSpiracy:

Finally, why would the cult leaders specifically have a role PM of someone who is unrecruitable?

[bvoigt]

Finally, why would the cult leaders specifically have a role PM of someone who is unrecruitable?

Why would scum have fake-claims in games?

In most theme games, they have fakeclaims because they've never had a town role PM with the right flavor. But in this game, everyone except the cult recruiters presumably got a town PM at the start of the game. So there would be no need for fakeclaims.

The flavor isn't about cultdoc. It's about unrecruitable.

That's not the case. It was about a fake-claim of the most anti-cult role. In this game that is the unrecruitable cult doc (as last game).

If I'm not mistaken, we're talking about your argument that the cult recruiters would have an unrecruitable PM for fakeclaiming purposes. Even though LLD confirmed the unrecruitable "flavor word," you were saying that I would have had fakeclaim information available. So no, we weren't talking about the cult doc aspect.

[bvoigt]

If I'm not mistaken, we're talking about your argument that the cult recruiters would have an unrecruitable PM for fakeclaiming purposes. Even though LLD confirmed the unrecruitable "flavor word," you were saying that I would have had fakeclaim information available. So no, we weren't talking about the cult doc aspect.

That's why I said

unrecruitable

doc. There hasn't been an recruitable doc in last game (and most likely not in this one either)

You still haven't answered why they would have an unrecruitable role PM.

@NS: Can you fullclaim with your targets, please?

[bvoigt]

Hello, I'd like to hear more opinion on xvart. Am I voting town? Do you agree with me that he is cult? Put some reads out there people,

You have a decent case on xvart, and I would be willing to vote him depending on what our major wagons end up being. However, he's not my top suspect at the moment.

@xvart: What caused you to say this? It seems odd, since Kinetic was convinced that DGB was an ABR recruit, and I cult doc'ed her N1.

Hell, Kinetic could have tried to recruit DGB last night and failed for one reason or another (ABR recruit already?).

@Yos: So, do xvart and Cobbler both seem like N0 recruits to you?
Also, I would suggest a Bunnylover vig, but that's just my 2 cents.

[bvoigt]

@xvart: What caused you to say this? It seems odd, since Kinetic was convinced that DGB was an ABR recruit, and I cult doc'ed her N1.

Hell, Kinetic could have tried to recruit DGB last night and failed for one reason or another (ABR recruit already?).

You said my point exactly. If Kinetic legitimately believed that DBG was an ABR recruit it could have been because he attempted to recruit DBG and failed, therefor thinking she had already been recruited. And the relevance of you cult doctoring DGB is what since at the time nobody knew you cult doc'ed anyone?

What I'm saying is that it could point to inside information, since only a Kinetic recruit could know that he failed to recruit DGB. And since I protected her, the situation you suggested is pretty plausible.

@LLD: Did you ever mention the flavor name for your cult doc action?

[bvoigt]

Hi, Amrun.

@LLD: Did you ever mention the flavor name for your cult doc action?

Amrun, there is a treestumped cult recruiter still alive, no mafia in this game, sure, claim your targets.

I think I recall someone, Somewhere (useful, huh? ) saying there

may

be a non-culted mafia. It was much earlier; possibly D2 or before. (Anyone else remember this?) [Note: Flameaxe was questioning this D2.]

That was Kinetic, I believe.

[bvoigt]

I think Cobbler's lynch claimed VTs/me plan is stupid because there is probably little reason for anyone to claim VT/a less useful role.

So you're saying that scum would likely fakeclaim a power role?

[bvoigt]

But you still find Bunnylover and xvart scummy despite their vanilla claims?

[bvoigt]

I'm back.

Bvoigt is not going to be lynched, sadly.

Vote: Zdenek

I like the attacks from others on him.

Anything else to say from the last few pages? I believe I asked you a question.

bvoigt appears to be voting me because I think Flameaxe is scum, which is a dumb reason. I really think that he's voting me because he thinks I'm scum every time we play together and can't help it.

Yeah, my original vote was because I thought your cases on Flameaxe and me contained poor, "stretchy" reasoning. Plus, your posts just give me a bad feeling. Since then, you made this oddly passive statement, and supported the lynches of 2 claimed VTs despite not thinking that scum would claim VT.

Also, we've played two games together; you've been town once and scum once, but I've been wrong both times. Is that correct?

[bvoigt]

@ooba: What are your thoughts on Zdenek?

[bvoigt]

You still haven't answered why they would have an unrecruitable role PM.

*sigh*
Again, the most anti-cult role is the cult-doc pm. In this game the cult-doc is unrecruitable. 1+1=?

So they get a very valuable piece of fakeclaiming information solely to combat the cult doc.

[bvoigt]

No, you implied you wanted to watch the cult docs

Mini-plan is that one of the cult-docs protect me while I watch

one of the others

.

There are only 2 cult docs, so he would have said "the other one."

I think ooba's plan makes sense.

[bvoigt]

Magister (and Amrun for that matter, since she was on the xvart wagon), your willingness to vote for me seems pretty strange considering that you are on the xvart wagon. I know that I am not scum, but in general, the chances that the two lead wagons are on scum is pretty low in any game. There is of course the chance that we are both town, but if you think that xvart is scum, then it makes little sense to think that I am scum too.

This is an appeal to probability, I believe. It reads like scum trying desperately to stay alive.

[bvoigt]

Magister (and Amrun for that matter, since she was on the xvart wagon), your willingness to vote for me seems pretty strange considering that you are on the xvart wagon. I know that I am not scum, but in general, the chances that the two lead wagons are on scum is pretty low in any game. There is of course the chance that we are both town, but if you think that xvart is scum, then it makes little sense to think that I am scum too.

This is an appeal to probability, I believe. It reads like scum trying desperately to stay alive.

So townies shouldn't fight their lynches?

Not with that crappy reasoning.

[bvoigt]

How 'bout this. I'll tell you who I plan on killing and NS pick from outside that tonight. Then tomorrow night he picks a list and I get what's left?

My list is:
Flameaxe
Bunnylover
Ooba
xvart
LLD

Don't kill LLD. She's town.

Our vig's claiming exactly who they are shooting is a very bad idea. If we wanted to, we could simply divide the player-list into numbers 1-9 for Batt to shoot into and 10-rest for NS to shoot into, and then hope for some good shots. Its probably the best way to prevent cross shots.

Should we do this for LLD and me as well?

[bvoigt]

Actually, I want LLD to mention the flavor name for cult docing. I don't think she ever did that.

[bvoigt]

I've thought about it, and I do not think claiming home base matters.
#22, barber shop.
Though I want ooba to come with something very big, otherwise I'd like to see him lynched.

Why?

[bvoigt]

I've thought about it, and I do not think claiming home base matters.
#22, barber shop.
Though I want ooba to come with something very big, otherwise I'd like to see him lynched.

Why?

Because I do not think there is anything bad that involves home base.

Because I am getting back my scumread on him.

Why?

[bvoigt]

Actually, I want LLD to mention the flavor name for cult docing. I don't think she ever did that.

[bvoigt]

Because he was fencing in the last few days.
The only thing he was vocal about was the location claiming and cult doc directing thing.

This post doesn't seem like fencesitting to me.

[bvoigt]

No, that post is scummy for other reasons.

Perhaps (I don't really find ooba scummy), but it makes me think that ConSpiracy's reasons are insincere.

[bvoigt]

Wait, ML, are you going to say that cult already won?
That quickhammer was horrible.

As Amrun sort of said, this post appears to know that Zdenek is flipping town.

FOS: ConSpiracy

I targeted Yos, but he's apparently very hard to find.

I thought Yos was almost confirmed town because he'd been jailkept by Ludi.

[bvoigt]

Saw a post that indicates xvart and Flameaxe weren't on the same team yesterday. The one where he votes him over quite a legitimate reason.

So now that my memory's refreshed I'm definitely set on Flameaxe.

Just curious as "A post indicated xvart and Flameaxe weren't on the same team" goes to "Flameaxe is scum". Hefty logic jump is hefty!

(Lets not even mention the last post you made yesterday had a top three including *shocker* both xvart and myself).

Vote: Cobble

, for overall crappy posts towards the end of yesterday in addition to everything else I've said in my iso.

I believe that was his first post of toDay.

[bvoigt]

Oh hai. I cult docced Cobbler last night. :3

Why Cobbler? Also, not to be pushy, but I still want an answer to my question from yesterday.

[bvoigt]

Oh hai. I cult docced Cobbler last night. :3

Why Cobbler? Also, not to be pushy, but I still want an answer to my question from yesterday.

Because I cult docced him the night before. Probabilities etc.

My flavor name for the cult protect is "Free Advice". Is that what you're looking for? Or are you wanting the name of the ability that is hyperlinked?

Oh, I forgot about that.

That is not the same flavor name that I have; however, I can see you said the same thing earlier, and I'm still inclined to believe it. Might as well do the hyperlinked ability as well.

[bvoigt]

The hyperlinked name is "Cult Doctor".

That's what is in my PM (although you probably could have guessed it anyway if you were fakeclaiming).

VOTE: ConSpiracy

[bvoigt]

Herodotus has said that Flameaxe didn't roleblock him. Now let's move on.

[bvoigt]

@Flameaxe:
Yesterday: Process of Elimination was my main reason of suspecting you.

Can you expand on this?

[bvoigt]

...

[bvoigt]

God, I played terribly.

[bvoigt]

It was a fun game despite my play. Thanks, Flay.