ASOIAF: Test of Faith Mafia (Game Over!)

[Magua]

VOTE: MagnaofIllusion

I want to save him the indignity of dying N1.

[Magua]

I've played two games with DGB. In both games, I kept waiting for her to bust out a long post that was well thought out and I could follow. Instead, all I got was lists of people sorted into town and scum groups, and occasional one liners.

In both these games she was town.

Ergo, DGB posting coherent thoughtful posts that I agree with is a scumtell.

UNVOTE: MagnaofIllusion
VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[Magua]

Scum.

I agree with you.

But if you think Maemuki is scum, and Maemuki is voting SaintKerrigan, why are you still voting SaintKerrigan?

[Magua]

I forgot, scum never vote for scum.

Analyzing interactions based off a single post is a fail.

Sarcasm is a scummy defense.

So is it you think Maemuki is bussing, or do you have a stronger scumread on SaintKerrigan than you do on Maemuki?

[Magua]

But if I'm scum, how can you agree with me that Maemuki is scum?

^^^this is the (god-awful) argument you are making.

For the same reason that I can find someone scummy yet still think they're town.

Please answer the question I asked, re: Maemuki bussing or SaintKerrigan scummier.

[Magua]

I don't like your line of thinking, just because it takes responsiblity away from you. Like "oh DGB-meta this, DGB-meta not that, therefore DGB scum" so you're not really involved at all. Idk, that vote just reads scummy for miles.

The One Ring has decimated your sense of humor, I see.

Can you get on with dayvigging scum so I can get on with sheeping you?

What do you think about AlmasterGM?

[Magua]

Each game, I find I love Thor more.

I have no useful ingame comments, just a song in my heart that yearns to be free.

[Magua]

Almaster, if you think I'm scum, you should vote me.

I'm not going to vote for SK. I don't care if her next post in the thread is "LULZ GAIZ IM THE GODFATHER." Why am I not going to vote for her? Because I *can*.

I might vote for MagnaofIllusion. My first vote on him was pure RVS, but I haven't liked what I've read. So that's 2/2 I'm batting on doing scummy things you don't like.

Then again: You think MagnaofIllusion is town. MagnaofIllusion thinks DGB is scum. (I happen to agree, self interest and all here.) Do you think Magna is wrong? Misinformed?

[Magua]

I honestly do not remember you being so dense in any of the other games I've seen you in.

People keep saying this about me, yet FMPOV I've done nothing differently. Amusing.

Also: If you think I'm scummy, or my posts are scummy, vote for me.

Or explode. One of the two.

[Magua]

Pedit: Magua, I'd like to hear what your meta is playstyle-wise.

Self metas suck and cannot be trusted. But, to answer your question: To play stupider than the last time someone played with me.

No.

But, this is definitely scum talking. The whole forced "either vote for me or stop talking about me" thing. I can call you scum just fine without the vote. And you should like being under the magnifying glass, no?

Oh ho ho. Talk about me all you want. The problem is, you're not talking about me. I asked you straight up if you thought Maemuki was bussing or if SK was just a stronger scumread; instead of answering it, you got sarcastically defensive. So I pushed for an answer on that again. Each time, your scumread on me increased, apparently for the sole reason that I'm asking you what you think of more than one person and asking you to compare the scumminess of this person to that person. That's terribad.

[Magua]

Girls, girls. You're both pretty.

[Magua]

Because it was a stupid question. Answer this - It's been less than 5 pages and Maemuki has made one post. Do you really think that is enough content to generate an opinion on whether she is or is not bussing? Moreover, why does it even matter? If they're both acting scummy, why can't I just call them both scum?

It didn't matter until you started calling me scum because I wanted you to answer the question.

I mean, if you're the type who's willing to call Maemuki scum for one post, which, according to this thread, both you and I are, then why is it such a goddamn hurdle to come up with an opinion as to whether she's bussing or not? Or you could've just brushed the question away with "SK is scummier." But you did neither, you went defensive and you went sarcastic.

And yes, that is why my scumread on you is increasing. Because you are getting really hung up on this one particular interaction when, in reality, it shouldn't be a big deal at all. Which makes me think you have a vested interest in seeing it go a particular direction.

So how much more does it need to increase before you vote me?

The MoI/LMP/LB Ménage à trois is disturbing to read, and kind of pointless as well. I've already gotten to the point where LMP's and MoI's posts are too long and too point-by-point for me to care about reading them. LB's are equally disturbing/pointless, but at least mercifully shorter.

[Magua]

Why is it pointless? Have you absolutely determined our aligment? Do tell.

It's pointless because it's noise. It's a 3,000 word version of, "No, you're the scum." Actually, it's worse, because it's 100 words of LMP or LB saying, "You're the scum" and then you say "No you're the scum" and then another 100 words quoting someone saying "You're the scum" and then you say "No you're the scum."

Also … you didn’t answer this. Please do so –

Roll that forward one iteration

1. You agree with AGM that Maemuki is scum.
2. Why are you still voting DGB? Do you have a stronger scum-read on DGB than Mae?

You're right. I didn't answer it because I stopped reading your posts.

Because I wanted to see if anyone would join on the DGB wagon -- particularly whether anyone else would want to be associated with the wagon that you were on instead of joining the SK/MoI wagons.

Now that you've left, that's pretty unlikely. So:
UNVOTE: DrippingGoofball
VOTE: Maemuki

[Magua]

What would you have concluded if my wagon had gotten sails?
What have you concluded given that the MoI wagon has swollen?
And how does not reading MoI's posts fit into that scheme?

In general, the faster a wagon grows in size, the less likely I believe that the person being wagoned is scum. You, especially, tend to gain a small wagon D1, and I wanted to see if that would happen again.

Not reading MoI's posts is because I couldn't be arsed once him/LMP/LB degenerated into noise.

[Magua]

Nah. The fastest D1 wagon I've ever seen had 3 scumpals bus'ing zwet like there was no tomorrow.

Yeah. And busses like that tend to fool me, and I end up looking like crap because I defend the person and then they get lynched and D2 everyone's like "lolpartner." But I tend to not care because a D1 scum lynch and a D2 me lynch is really good for town regardless.

And how do you define "fast?" Maybe the scum is really obvscum. Maybe there is a lot of activity in the thread. These are things that make it hard to define "fast." And how about the current STALL on the MoI wagon? Where does a stall fit in? It goes fast (by your definition) then it sputters. Does your belief that the person being wagon is more or less scum, after a stall (let's not inject in the particulars of current wagonees, I'm just trying to show that the theory behind your position is untenable).

Seriously, where have you been with this ability to put forth an articulate argument? This is the exact sort of thing I wanted to get out of you in ASoS, and there all I get is "hasdgfas, please get yourself modkilled" and "town list/scum list".

Of the three of MoI/LB/LMP, I find LMP to be the most suspect and the one I would most want to lynch.
However, I don't want a lynch yet.
As for the rest of it: I'm done talking about what I get out of what I do.

I think Maemuki is scummy. Do you think she's town, scummy, or null?

[Magua]

Was I not right???? My argument was clearly beyond your diminutive comprehension, that is all.

I never questioned you being right in ASoS. What I'm questioning is why your well-reasoned, cogent argument was beyond my diminutive comprehension in ASoS, and yet why you are so selfless to step through the baby steps so that my unworthy mind can understand your will in this game.

[Magua]

Whoa, amazing how I managed to gather 3 votes with...yeah, one post. I have a gift for this. Anyway, the only thing I find defendable in the cases of the people who voted for me is this: ...uh, nope, can't find a thing other than "obv scum is scum". Amazing.

This is fluff.

However, I can't help but notice that everybody has me on their scumlist somewhere. While this is not scummy for the most part, it is when people ignore the rest of the game. So, Magua. What's your opinion on the top 2 wagons?

I have no opinion on SaintKerrigan; total nullread.
I would prefer to lynch LMP than MoI; it's not that MoI looks townier, it's that LMP looks scummier.

[Magua]

Magua is scum. States he might vote MOI because he hasn't liked what he's read,

The amazing thing, that I've found, about this game, is that I change my mind as things happen. When I said I might vote MoI, that was before the herpderpfest that was pages 8 through 11. When I said I'm not reading Magna's, LMP's, or LB's posts, that was during the herpderpfest of pages 8 through 11.

Though now that I'm here, I'll add that I'm not reading Andrius' wallpost either.

Your post, Setael, I read, because it was not a back and forth quote-striping contest, which I appreciate. You're wrong on me, but that's a forgivable thing -- at least you can post your stance in less than encyclopedic form.

[Magua]

I can agree with that. I'd also say that he's more likely to be the CR which I presume is the biggest threat.

Unvote, Vote: Magua

I'm extremely curious: Why am I more likely to be the cult recruiter than cult or mafia?

[Magua]

Uhmmm why he's L-1...unvote someone.

Nvm, I handled it. Going to work. I'll bbl, enjoy.

So, yeah. Bilbo calling me the cult recruiter and not voting me is very odd. His follow up defense ("lynch him D2") isn't the place where warm fuzzies go. However, I'm not seeing the scum motivation for saying it either, from either a scum or cult mindset. So I've tossed it into the "weird but not actionable" bucket.

After several long hours of analysis, I've determined I simply hate Empking's posting style with a passion. In my mind, reading his posts, they always come across in a Ben Stein monotone. Still, slight townread on him. I read his posts as reaction testing, which lord knows, I'm a fan of.

God help me, DGB makes sense with every single post she makes. This is freaking me out more than you could possibly imagine.

[Magua]

It's not odd at all and the explanation makes perfect sense. The mod explicitly said cult cannot recruit until N2.

That's assuming he has 100% perfect knowledge that I'm the cult recruiter.

I mean, if the goal is to lynch the cult recruiter, you lynch your strongest suspect. They flip town, you can then look for your second strongest suspect with the additional lynch/nk information.

[Magua]

Nexus is town.

Everyone's way-the-hell-overreacting.

[Magua]

Hey Magua! Is Hinduragi town?

He's null-to-scum. Fine, rational, hasn't really taken a stance that puts him outside of the mainstream yet. Gutread says "playing it safe" which results in mild scumminess.

For why he's scummy - read the thread. He's obviously just as, if not more scummy than MoI, and pretty much nobody disputes this (most of the arguments are things like, "he's CR and less of a threat").

Bilbo Baggins is the only saying that I'm the cult recruiter and should be ignored until D2. I like your use of "arguments", plural, though.

As for why he should be lynched OVER MoI - 1) MoI is a strong town player, whereas Magua is relatively useless. If we mislynch MoI it's a pretty big shot in the foot, whereas lynching Magua doesn't hurt us that much.

2) There are lots more interactions surrounding Magua in the early game (specifically with Maemuki and SaintKerrigan), whereas MoI is being called out on this one isolated post.

So my interactions with two people (one of whom I think is scum) is "lots more" than the interactions people have had with MoI?

That seems...incorrect.

Now, I think the MoI is not the best lynch, or I would've hammered him. But your point here bears little actual resemblance to the truth, and seems smushed to fit into a hole rather than being a natural fit. If you think MoI is town, and don't want to see him lynched because of that, that's fine; I can dig that. But trying to upplay my lynch by saying I have "lots more interactions" than MoI does is just patently false.

[Magua]

@Mod:

Locke Lamora is voting me, not Nexus

-Magua seems like he's spending a whole lot more time explaining why lynches aren't a good idea than he does actually pushing lynches of his own.

Not true. Maemuki lynch would be just wonderful, as Maemuki is actually scum.

Corrected - ooba

[Magua]

You know what would've been awesome? Being able to ask Magna if there was a reason why he thought his flip would be fucked with instead of saying "omgjanitorhemustbescumderp".

I'm glad that Kast died.

VOTE: Maemuki

[Magua]

Didn't we all say that we wanted to get rid of Magua before he had as chance to recruit?

I don't recall ever saying that.

<_<
>_>

[Magua]

Faramina. Please to be voting Maemuki so everyone who's so opportunistically sheeping you will follow.

[Magua]

Vote: Magua

Should happened YESTERDAY. MMMMM.

Will also vote SaintKerrigan. But Magua should die first.

*snores*

Let the dance begin.

So SaintKerrigan is scum. But I'm *more* scum?

Am I scum with SaintKerrigan? Or are we different scum?

[Magua]

Why are you so obsessed with the whole "who is scum with who" thing. I've never seen someone so obsessed with interactions before. Who cares. There are scum and cult in this game. It's D2. We lynch scummy people. Town wins. The end.

I find that getting insight into other people's viewpoints is useful for determining if they're town.

In this particular case, because I'm curious why you say "SK is scum. Vote: Magua."

[Magua]

Because back when I posted that SK was the counterwagon. Which is why it says SK. But now that it's a fresh day and I can have my pick, it's you.

So your post that begins "Also, this is now even more true:" and goes on that SK is scum is less true?

I mean, aside from the part of that post where you say "Thus, I'm maintaining MoI is not the lynch for today." and then you went on to hammer him. That part is obviously far less true.

[Magua]

Also, I read over some of your other games, and I realized I was right in my thinking when I came into this game - in the queue thread, everyone was like, "lol Magua sucks," but I never remembered you sucking. Maybe you were never the best scumhunter ever, but your play was always pretty reasonable. In this game, though, it's just been all 100% WOOSH - minimal scumhunting, saying things that don't make logical sense, and getting all caught up in these technicalities. It's a clear break from how you usually play. It is le scummy.

Alright. Let's try this on for size, shall we?

You start by assuming MoI is town and SK is scum. Fine.
You go on to say then that those who aren't on either wagon are avoiding the top two wagons. The only possible insinuation here is that we're partners with SK; after all, if you assume that SK is mafia or cult, and we are of the opposite group, we'd have no reason to avoid the wagon. But you never come out and say this, nor do you ever expound on it.

Fact of the matter is, I didn't vote MoI because I found the case against him to be garbage, and there were people who were genuinely scummier -- Maemuki and LynchMePls. Magna got lynched, essentially, because he was "raging" and because he "never rages as town." The bullshitness of the case is obvious, now, but as is usual, no one seems to be going on and adjusting their reads in light of this occurring, beyond the up-and-coming-expected argument of "Thor's defending his buddy Magna" becoming "Thor's defending Magna for towncred"

This isn't a goddamn game of darts where you just throw shit against the wall and see what sticks where. I ask you because you were voting SK yesterday, and now you're not, and what changed in the meantime? Was it that you always had a scumread on me but you couldn't push the wagon? Or was it just that SK was more convenient, already having votes on her? Get this through your head:

That question is not a "technicality", and the answer you give is important to me.

I don't care what you think about my playstyle or my meta. I don't care if you think I'm playing poorly or not scumhunting. I don't care (but am amused by the fact) that you don't seem to comprehend the difference between pregame banter and actual ingame play. What I do care about is this: I know what information I'm looking for, and it costs you nothing to answer it. So, for once, just fucking answer the goddamn question when I fucking ask you. You can vote me all you want.

k?

[Magua]

SpyreX, what do you think of Maemuki?

[Magua]

Show me where you think I've gone into crazy mode.

[Magua]

I'd give him a 7.

[Magua]

Ok, so if you think AGM is a 7 (i.e. more likely than town than not) then why so much slapfighting?

Lets hold hands and move ahead to an awesomer world.

His refusal to answer questions and his twice ad hominem'ing me make me wary. Particularly the second "you play much better as town" argument from #513, considering that was a major portion of the argument leading up to the MoI lynch (though that part of the argument didn't come from AGM).

[Magua]

*sighs*

[Magua]

This is a complete sidestepping of the issue at hand; I don't need Magua to vote LMP, but issue-full-of-tension-is-here-I-just-be-cool-and-ignoring-it-and-let-something-else-spark-it is here.

I assume I'm addressing Plum here. I'm sad if that was Andrius.

I saw no reason to comment on a page 1 bandwagon that was random mob pilings on without a reason. I could've said exactly that, but I figured it went without saying.

This would read all nice and take-a-chill-pill-Andy-we-are-cool-are-we-not. If it made any sense whatsoever. If I'm not accused of being humorless, it might make sense if, for instance, Magua were voting with us or even agreeing with us on some game point as opposed to still voting DGB for make-joke-ohwait-make-wagonalysis reasons.

The quote about you dayvigging and me sheeping you after was directed to Andrius and is an ASoS reference, has everything to do with pregame banter, and had nothing to do with current game state. Ask Andrius about it.

Pedit: Magua, I'd like to hear what your meta is playstyle-wise.

Self metas suck and cannot be trusted. But, to answer your question: To play stupider than the last time someone played with me.

If so this is the first time I've seen you play to this professed meta.

I don't normally include a quote tree, but I had to here for completeness.

For god's sake, if you don't have a sense of humor, ask someone who does. Did you seriously read this and say, "Well, that's an odd meta to play to, but ok, I guess."

Unrelatedly:

I think Benmage/Thor squabbling is town-on-town.

I have a big ol' OMGUS in my heart for everyone who's mouthed the words "X is the cult recruiter". That's Bilbo Baggins, Empking, and vezokpiraka. Reading back, I find Empking's #488 to be saddening:

Didn't we all say that we wanted to get rid of Magua before he had as chance to recruit?

At first, I read this as a pure pressure post, as I'd had a null-to-town read on him. Now, I just find it to be fluff.

But, despite the CR talk, I'm going to
UNVOTE: Espeonage
VOTE: Locke Lamora

There's been no massclaim. There's no set up line of lynches. Please to be providing more than "I'mma sheep Faraday."

[Magua]

So where do you think my vote should be to be helpful? Vezo?

Locke Lamora.

Yes, I understand you weren't asking me. Don't care.

[Magua]

But how can a vezo policy lynch ever be wrong? Plus her votes this game have been horrid/screamed scummy.

As opposed to every other game vezok has ever been in.

vezok-scum implies SK-not-partner. Do you agree? If you were so hot for a vezok PL, why did you not push it D1?

[Magua]

refresh my memory. What's the reasoning?

D1 isn't too bad. D2 is "Guiz I'm busy I'mma sheep Faraday" and then nothing.

In ASoS LL complained about the townlist after massclaim and how the game was "on rails". As neither of these are the case here, I'm curious as to what his response will be.

[Magua]

And check out how, ONCE AGAIN, the same people as yesterday are responsible for the stall.

Oooooh. I see what the problem is.

See, here, I was thinking that voting someone and them saying, "I'mma post tonight" and then waiting for that post was, y'know, a good idea.

But now I see that that's stalling. And the opposite of stalling is to hammer someone who turns out to be town before they can explain whatever crazy shit was flowing out of their mouth.

Got it.

</pissy>

[Magua]

Less pissy: If you think that scum were crowding off the MoI and SK wagons, and MoI flipped town, and now you think scum are crowding off the SK wagon, then why are you not considering SK-non-scum?

After all, if it was SK scum vs MoI town, you'd imagine that some of the scum would be pushing MoI.

[Magua]

Scum don't want to be caught saving their buddy.

Seeing as there's been zero suspicion on anyone who was on the MoI wagon, that hardly seems like it'd even be a concern.

[Magua]

Yes but until we revealled we knew that we were onto them then they didn't know that.

Plus, we have to wait for SK to flip first.

Enlighten me as to how that's going to affect anything, because as far as I can see:

SK flips scum: "OMG people who were off the SK wagon are her buddies protecting her"

SK flips town: "OMG people who were off the SK wagon are scum stalling the game"

[Magua]

Hascow is obvscum. There may also be scum among the rest of those names mentioned.

If hascow is obvscum, why are you voting Espeonage?

Also, look at me not hammer SaintKerrigan.

-Magua invoking ASoS for my past play really pings my scumdar. He's taking a single situation from my past townplay and then using it to justify an attack on me for shipping Faraday and then not posting, when I quite clearly haven't been around for a few days (and if he'd checked, he'd know that).

This does not warm the black embers of my heart.

Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to make DGB a cake.

UNVOTE: Locke Lamora
VOTE: hasdgfas

[Magua]

I see what you did thar, LMP.

[Magua]

Wanting to read Setael's post of awesome now.

[Magua]

vezokpiraka (1)

- Benmage

Empking (1)

- hasdgfas

hasdgfas (1)

- Magua

Not Voting (3)

- Nexus, Setael, Hinduragi

Since apparently none of you actually care wht your vote does - might as well sheep onto the Espeo wagon. We have cushy seats.

I am expecting DGB to come to the hasdgfas wagon, as I made her a cake.

[Magua]

Um, hello?

What exactly am I supposed to say in response to people just voting for me but not explaining why? Unless I missed some explanation in Hind's post.

*spreads arms wide*

[Magua]

Because of Benmage specifically?

Were you ever for the hasdgfas wagon?

[Magua]

Have you met Vezok before, SK?

I'd wagon Benmage with you, Thor. I haven't seen anything that makes me think SK isn't scum, though, and at the end of the day, a botched claim is a botched claim. I don't even know if I've seen that from town, and I can recall a number of instances off the top of my head where I've seen it from scum (and that includes myself).

I've seen town claim the role name in the OP rather than their own, and I've not played that many games on this site.

Now, as near as I can tell, SK got wagoned D1 for the same justifications that MoI did -- that is, incredibly bad ones. Fine, whatever. But all of the people who are going, "Well, should've gone with the SK wagon D1" instead of trying to use the additional information we have are being lazy and antitown.

I'm not claiming that the hasdgfas wagon is founded on anything concrete. It's built on the same swamp. But it's 10,000 times more useful to see who's willing to join the hasdgfas wagon, who's willing to support the hasdgfas wagon over the SK wagon, and who clings to the SK wagon and for what reasons, than it is to simply lynch SK at this point.

[Magua]

The problem is that scum knows that SK is caught scum. This means the silly Has thing will just be played by the mafia in order to 6trick us because its not a real alternative.

Illuminate me. Remember, I'm stupid, so I don't grasp your intricacies. Feel free to start with the fact that if you believe SK's claim is a slip, it means that SK is cult, since R'hllor (cult) is the one who deals with souls and Old Faith (mafia) do not.

[Magua]

Empking, do you ever, at all, go back to your original thinking and say, "I was wrong at step 1 and step 2, maybe step 3 is suspect too?"

I'm just curious.

VOTE: hasdgfas

[Magua]

Empking, do you ever, at all, go back to your original thinking and say, "I was wrong at step 1 and step 2, maybe step 3 is suspect too?"

Yes. What steps are you talking about?

Your "SK is obv scum because there's no way town could mess up their claim like that."

Your "Scum jumped from the SK wagon to the MoI / scum avoided the SK wagon altogether D1 to protect their buddy"

Your "Scum bussed SK D2 because she was scum going down"

Your complete lack of "Given that SK was town and my theories about why people were and were not on the SK wagon were all voided, I should go back and rethink things", instead just going with, "Well, we all decided Magua was cult recruiter, let's lynch him"

I accept that you simply don't bother to expound on your reasoning, but it seems to me like there's no actual reasoning going on here.

@Thor:

How is Benmage coasting along, but hasdgfas isn't?

AlmasterGM is just so hardcore derping it hurts.

[Magua]

When did I say the last point?

Post #844:

The problem is that scum knows that SK is caught scum. This means the silly Has thing will just be played by the mafia in order to 6trick us because its not a real alternative.

But you being a CR is completely unrelated to SK's flip?

Given MoI and SK both being town, do you think I'm the cult recruiter?

Hell, do you think I'm scum?

[Magua]

Trying to talk to you is distinctly annoying.

[Magua]

plus the deathlist from yesterday

god so many people need death

Is this the deathlist of "the people who were off of the two leading wagons which both turned out to be town" or is it a different deathlist?

Going from your vote on me, I'm assuming it's the same one.

someone summarise what we both missed.

Town: Guess MoI wasn't scum, let's ignore that wagon and vote SK because she was wagoned page 3 D1 and that's a good enough reason for me!

Magua and AlmasterGM: You're scummy! Well, you're a moron! Well, you're still scummy! Well...
SpyreX: Children, don't make me turn this wagon around!

Town: We've wagoned SK hard, time to claim!

SK: Embodiment of the Souls! I mean, Embodiment of the Smith! Sorry about that!

Town: TROLOLOLOL SOULS == R'HOLLOR == DEATH.

I may have missed some stuff, but if you really cared you'd've read it anyways.

@Thor:

I've never played with hasdgfas outside of ASoS. You think that Benmage-scum would be called out for coasting by you D2 and then continue to coast?

[Magua]

@Magua - he was called out by me and called obv. town by multiple players. If i was scum I would keep doing *exactly* that. Seriously - iso that sucker, tell me you see scumhunting and pro-town work,
I see opportunistic voting, and lots of defense bantering with me, and nothing else.

I ISOed him, and I do not see scumhunting. But comparing this to the ASoS game, I didn't really see scumhunting from Benmage there, either -- in pretty much every case, Benmage went with the prevailing wagon of the Day (disallowing a Raivann or Bunnylover lynch D2, and governing Zdenek D6 (insert relevant emoticon here) is the only thing that sticks out in my mind as counter. The only difference I see so far is a lack of a screw-you-I'm-right attitude, for which I'm thankful.

Are you REALLY trying to paint SK as a paragon of town that just got ran up all willy nilly and THEN fed themselves the rope and asked to be lynched?

SK was not a paragon of town, nor did I ever paint her as one. However, SK did get run up all willy nilly. I said this D1 and D2, so it's not really a new development.

SK asked to be lynched after she messed up her claim.

I will never get how souls=smith in bad word mixup land and I have an estate there.

Do not like this part. It's quite obvious that's exactly what happened. Saying you "will never get" how something that actually happened happened rubs me the wrong way, like you're trying to overjustify not believing her about it D2.

[Magua]

Claims #679, asks to be hammered at #733.

[Magua]

Unrelated: Thor is scummy because he should be better than this.

[Magua]

Ohhhh man ohh man

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 6#p3125786 <-- 630

That stupid business started before the claim.

You're right.

Does this change anything at all as far as you're concerned?

[Magua]

Considering you just took the stance and the time to go back and look and not actually look before the claim to see you were shootin moonbeams yea it got my ire up.

Color me caring.

No, wait. That other thing.

Not caring.

Calling that wagon bad and ignoring some of those key bits along the way is really some grandstanding that I'm not cool with.

Wagon was terrible. Again, I said this D1, and I said it D2. I expect D1 wagons to be terrible. D2 wagons should be better. Trying to say it wasn't terrible because she rage-posted when she got up to L-3 on the argument of "Well, she was wagoned yesterday, may as well wagon her again today" doesn't wash.

Please to be defending your points less and finding scum more.

[Magua]

Pass.

Can I interest you in voting?

[Magua]

Nexus - is in the game? LURKER SCUMZORZ???

Nexus was a hardcore lurker/fencesitter in ASoS as well.

Do you have Benmage as town simply because Thor is pushing him, or is there another reason?

[Magua]

Nexus was a hardcore lurker/fencesitter in ASoS as well.

What was his alignment, pray tell?

He was town. I think he's town here. I'm questioning why he's in your null category.

Magua, since you've been accused of being CR a lot, could you tell us who has been the most gung ho?

I don't think this tell is as reliable as you may think it is.

Bilbo Baggins, town, started it
Lots of people question him about this, but no one really agrees

AlmasterGM is the first to morph it from "Bilbo Baggins said you're CR" to "everyone says you're CR". Buuuuut, I think that this is more of a towntell, actually, because I don't see scum doing anything so outrageously bold.

D2 then gets:
Empking's "Didn't we say we wanted to lynch Magua before he could recruit" in #488
vezok throws out "Maemuki is the cult recruiter" in #527

I don't have a horrible scumread on Empking, and vezok is...vezok. Vezok could be scum, certainly, but I simply can't get worked up over the possibility.

[Magua]

Still reading.. but the cow and Magua wagons need to join forces... in this case.. i guess Cow. (Tho i think at this moment I'd prefer Magua)

vote Cow

Although I appreciate the not getting voted, I have to say lolwut?

[Magua]

WHY IN THE EVERLOVING BLEEP FOR BLEEP ARE DGB AND BENMAGE AND HINDURAGI SAYING I'M SCUM AND THEN VOTING FOR COW?

I mean, seriously. Reading this chorus of "lolMaguascumvote:hasdgfas" has got the hairs on the back of my neck up fierce.

DGB at least thinks hasdgfas is scum too, but Benmage's post is literally "I think Magua is

more

likely to be scum, vote: hasdgfas"

[Magua]

Unrelated: Thor is scummy because he should be better than this.

Also this was used in ASOS as a way to mislynch Thor.

You should read Thor's signature sometime, and then look at my phrasing.

[Magua]

I think it means that hasdgfas is being pushed as an acceptable lynch (probably not bussing) and then D4 can start with "lolshould'velynchedMagua" like D2 started out with.

Of the three, Benmage is scummier than Hinduragi is scummier than DGB.

UNVOTE: hasdgfas
VOTE: Benmage

[Magua]

Really?

You're assuming hascow-town? We're going to go "LOL shoulda lynched Magua?" the next day?

That's pretty far fetched compared to the more forthright explanation that your buddies aren't voting you.. but they're doing due diligence on the distancing front. That's basically what you're saying, yourself.

That "more forthright" explanation requires me to have buddies. Since I don't have buddies, it can't be the correct explanation.

Sad, but true.

But, counterquestion: Since you think I'm scum, and you think hasdgfas is scum, do you think I'm scum *with* hasdgfas?

@Benmage

: I specifically said why I was calling out you + Hinduragi + DGB -- you all said "Magua is obvscum I'mma vote hasdgfas". Your response is weak. Ben-"ImmadirectthistownD1becausethatshowawesomeIam"-mage has a scumread on me but would rather vote hasdgfas because he's got four votes on him instead of my two? That's seriously what was holding you back from voting me, the person you found *scummier*?

[Magua]

Because you flat out said that I was scummier than hasdgfas, whereas Hinduragi and DGB have both just said that we're both scum.

And bullshit if "1% difference" is the cause of "in this case.. i guess Cow. (Tho i think at this moment I'd prefer Magua)"

[Magua]

Hold up.

Are you still holding onto DGB is scum because she makes sense?

No.

Or was there some kind of SECRET REVELATION on DGB I missed?

Benmage asked why I found him scummier for doing X when Hinduragi and DGB also did X. I explained why.

[Magua]

Ow hot hot hot hot hot.



What do I win?

[Magua]

If this is real I'm gonna do a little dance.

Magua deaaaath.

Mmmmmm. This'll be fun when DGB declares me innocent. Then I'll get to see you be all "trololololKaleidoscopegambit"

[Magua]

Because you flat out said that I was scummier than hasdgfas, whereas Hinduragi and DGB have both just said that we're both scum.

And bullshit if "1% difference" is the cause of "in this case.. i guess Cow. (Tho i think at this moment I'd prefer Magua)"

I say I preferred you over Cow. I never say Cows not scummy. And my example is to illustrate that clearly I found the difference between you and cows scumminess negligible. I don’t understand how this concept is hard for you to understand… It is one of the most basic.

Oh, no. I get what you're saying. But it's the difference between you saying "hasdgfas and Magua are both scummy, Vote: hasdgfas" and "hasdgfas and Magua are both scummy, I'd prefer Magua, Vote: hasdgfas". Similarly, there's the difference between "Settling for a second best scum read when you can't get the first lynched" and "Settling for the second best scum read when you can get the first lynched".

Yelling at me isn't going to change the fact that I find this incredibly scummy and I'm voting you for it. Likewise, calling me a fucking retard isn't going to convince me, but, trust me, I appreciate the ad hominem on a fundamental level.

I WOULD LOVE IT IF EVERYONE WEIGHS IN AND TELLS MAGUA HE IS A FUCKING RETARD.

Everyone in their next post say how you in EVERYGAME do not always vote your top suspect.

I am literally dumbfounded that you are pursuing this.

Now, then. Do you think I'm pursuing it because I'm a fucking retard, or do you think I'm pursuing it because I'm scum?

Also, this is me not listing three people I would pick as CR. Same "am I a fucking retard/am I scum" question can be applied.

[Magua]

This is me policy voting you. Or omgus-ing if you want.. spell it out. Thats how I feel.

Do you think I'm a fucking retard, or do you think I'm scum?

I would also love to hear the logical scum mindset in saying Vote XXX, I prefer YYY..... Why add the I prefer??? What is gained by adding the YYY..

Scum votes XXX, XXX flips town, scum can then say, "Whelp, should've lynched YYY." I literally cannot believe that you cannot see the scum benefit in doing this.

[Magua]

Benmage, do you think I'm scum? y/n

I ask because you keep using words like "dumbass" and "fucking retarded" and "policy lynch" in regards to me. Not words like "scummy."

[Magua]

Benmage, do you think I'm scum? y/n

I ask because you keep using words like "dumbass" and "fucking retarded" and "policy lynch" in regards to me. Not words like "scummy."

Weren't you just crying about me calling you more scummy than cow, yet voting cow.

How's you're crusade against scumlists going....

Answer the question.

[Magua]

Benmage, do you think I'm scum? y/n

Soon we will

know

. The question is rather pointless.

No. The question is not pointless.

Either you're going to kill me or investigate me. Either way, I want Benmage in a position where he's said he's voting me because he finds me scummy, or he's voting me because he finds me stupid, and I want that before I flip town / come up inno.

Every single thing he's said in the last two pages is that I'm stupid, and that he's voting me as a policy lynch because I'm voting him and he can't wrap his head around how I could possible think he's scummy. If that's the case, I want him to say so. If he's voting me because he finds me scummy, I want him to say so.

[Magua]

All the more reason I want the question answered now.

[Magua]

Because people answering my goddamn questions is how I determine if they're scum or not.

Really, really, *really* wish you would just let Benmage answer the question.

[Magua]

inb4Benmagenowlurksuntilafternextoobapost

[Magua]

Not necessarily... but Magua did imply that he'd be lynched promptly after his mod-confirmation

Where?

@Benmage:

So, no, you don't think I'm scum. You think I'm a nullread, an acceptable lynch. That is what I am getting from your response. Is that the case?

[Magua]

I've been an unnecessary dick all game. Ask AlmasterGM or SpyreX.

Who are your scumreads? Feel free to include me in the list for the lulz.

[Magua]

Benmage, do you believe I'm a bad player?

Be honest.

[Magua]

Benmage, do you believe I'm a bad player?

Be honest.

Tell me again why you're voting me.

Because I found your post scummy, and when I voted you and you asked why and I told you, you were all "lolfuckingretard" instead of anything resembling actual helpfulness, which, let me tell you, I also find scummy.

Now, do you believe I'm a bad player? It's apparently safe for you to answer this question any way you damn please since DGB was gambiting.

[Magua]

When I asked.. andyou said why. I want toknow what the "why" was at that instance.

Failed to parse.

[Magua]

In other news, does Magua ever post with emotion? Ever?

Magua does not have any emotion that he's aware of.

No, wait. People playing stupidly or suboptimally makes me rage. So there's that.

Re: hasdgfas, no counter claim.

[Magua]

Do we really want to out a cult cop if there is one?

Why wouldn't we?

99.9% certain that the "Embodiment of the X" roles are non-convertible, so there's diddly/squat cult can do to him.

Are scum going to NK a cult-cop? Not bloody likely.

[Magua]

Where in the hell are you getting this from?

Flavor.

Cult is R'hllor worshippers. Cult recruits by convincing someone who worships the Seven to worship R'hllor instead. Those who are strong in their faith in the Seven are not convertible. All of this is fact.

The assumption is that the Embodiments would be strong in their faith in the Seven.

[Magua]

I didn't say not NK'able. I said not convertible.

I did say that scum would be morons to NK the cult-cop, though.

PEdit: Ninja'd. Odd that DGB would agree with me after stating that the "real" cult cop shouldn't counterclaim.

[Magua]

I have given it some consideration, and what I have come up with is, my god, what is wrong with you people?

Not believing hasdgfas' claim is one thing. Fine. I can believe that.

Watching him get driven up to L-1 three hours after he claimed in a game with cult is crazy, because if his claim is legit and there's a cult recruit not voting him, they could *gladly* throw themselves out there to hammer and get rid of him.

Fakeclaim as scum? Sure, possible -- but I don't care about a four person scumteam at this point nearly as much as I care about the cult recruiter.
Fakeclaim as cult recruit? Meeeeeeeh. I'd expect the cult recruiter would save the fakeclaim for their own use.

So the only role that makes sense to me for a hasdgfas-fakeclaim is cult recruiter, and I don't see hasdgfas as a cult recruiter. I don't see cult recruiter hardcore lurking D1/D2 and taking the chance of being lynched for it. I see hasdgfas as scum or as legit, and given the derpitude of the town in response to claims so far, I'm very much afraid that his claim is legit.

So unfuckingvote. kthxbai.

[Magua]

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT

JESUS

H

CHRIST

WHAT THE FUCKING FUCK FOR FUCK

[Magua]

Oh. Jesus. Twice now I've fallen for that shit. When am I going to learn.

[Magua]

1340 does not compute.

Computes pretty fucking well from my point of view.

No. That was an actual hammer. You can keep raging.

Great. So now I got to get my hopes up that whoever amongst you is actually town isn't completely fucked up, and once again that is snatched away from me.

Why would Cow call me scum, and not cult?

WHY WOULD MAGNA SAY HIS FLIP WAS GOING TO BE JANITORED?

WHY WOULD SK USE SOUL INSTEAD OF SMITH?

WHY WOULD THE CONFIRMED TOWN GOVERN THE OBVIOUS SCUM?

[Magua]

WHY WOULD THE CONFIRMED TOWN GOVERN THE OBVIOUS SCUM?

ASoS reference, before any of you gets the cojones to say "lolololMaguacallshasdgfasobvscum"

Unless I'm insane... LB is scum.

Just. Die.

[Magua]

DGB is town.
Hinduragi is recruited.
Benmage is a xRECKONERx wannabe, but is town. This will provide me with hours of

entertainment

sadness as he and Almaster team up.
Thor is currently meh, but PoE on him is getting difficult to ignore.
vezokpiraka is actually scum.

SpyreX is now my leading choice for cult recruiter, but I admit confirmation bias because of parallels I'm seeing in his behavior here and in Consulmaker II.

[Magua]

Apologies. I'm on vacation, and while I have limited access, I see 12 pages have popped up since yesterday and I can't really read that at the moment. Will make me way through it as fast as I can, not voting in the meantime.

[Magua]

Jesus christ, you people.

magua would have obviously voted you, he hates ya. that's 6, I can get 2 more, Locke Lamora and LMP in all likelyhood if AGM doesn't play ball.

No. There was no way that Benmage's claim was a scum-motivated 1-for-1. I was ready, willing, and able to vote you until I got to his retraction, and still feel itchy in that direction. I don't think you're mafia because of your words on the night-kills, but I could see LB-cult-mad-that-they're-caught-for-the-wrong-reasons. Mina's lack of posting figures heavily into this.

The one thing holding me back on this is your reversal to "Benmage may be insane cop," but even that doesn't mollify things all the way. See "tracking Sottyrulez in Metamafia" for example.

Benmage telling mafia to shoot me because I'm the likely cult recruiter is lulz.

SpyreX is still bugging me. Yes, he's got this claim, which, yes, I do believe at this point, which is why there's no vote, but the thing is this: SpyreX has been wrong on every single thing so far this game. Every single one. And not just a little wrong, but unrepentantly wrong. I twitch about his early claim with almost zero pressure. I twitch every time I read his posts. Like the one above.

So who does that leave for cult?

Can't be Bogre. Can't be Thor.

I'm buying it as unlikely that it's SpyreX, mostly due to the claim at this point in time, as indicated above.

I *heavily* believe that Hinduragi is recruited, due to the hasdgfas-hammer-silliness that was D3. I *do not* believe that Hinduragi is a recruiter of any sort, because his role in that was just too obvious -- willing to sacrifice himself to get hasdgfas lynched does not fit the CR methodology.

Leaves:
4. vezokpiraka - Pretty sure vezok is scum, though due to the little content, not sure about scum buddies.
6. CyberSet
7. Lost Butterfly
9. Empking
11. Nexus - Nexus being a recruiter means I would have to admit I was wrong on a D1 read, and I would prefer death. Recent posts have given me the feeling that he's recruited, but I maintain not a recruiter, and not scum at all.
12. Cogito Ergo Sum
17. Benmage - Can't see Benmage-scum at all. Can't see Benmage-recruiter. Could see Benmage-culted, but the motive there would be to push a lynch on someone the cult failed to recruit (and so likely mafia) to remove the opposing faction; Benmage's retraction negates that. Probably town at this point.
19. Espeonage
20. AlmasterGM - Likely not cult recruiter nor scum due to D1/D2 interactions. Recruited at the worst.

Leaves CyberSet, Lost Butterfly (hai Faraday), Empking, CES, and Espeonage as the people who I suspect may be recruiters.

So I'm all on board to VOTE: Espeonage

[Magua]

Hinduragi

You have a party hat.

I have a party hat.

And yet. And yet. Your terribad play D3 means you can't be a part of the party.

Your cultreads are 100% useless.

Your scumreads, however, are useful. Who do you think the mafia are?

[Magua]

Ninja'd out of the 2000th post.

[Magua]

UNVOTE: Espeonage

@Espeonage:

You gain a shot only if you hit cult, not mafia, correct? If you hit cult, can you use your second shot today?

Shoot Hinduragi, IMO.

SpyreX is a bad shot because of the claim.

If not him after the Magua "SpyreX's been wrong about everryyything" when the only one I really would blame myself for being wrong about is cow but seriously.

Also SK. Also MoI. But, humor me. Show me something you've been *right* about.

[Magua]

Right. So why can't LMP's slot be CR?

LMP's slot can be CR. But if Espeonage gets another shot at cult that he can use today, and I'm 99.99% you're a cult recruit...

[Magua]

Magua why do you think he's a recruit?

Because of his behavior around hasdgfas D3. Think I've said this a few times already.

[Magua]

Faraday.

I feel your excitement.

I like your party hat.

Please fucking stay in your hydra.

[Magua]

agree with this, mina's activity dropped after the guilty. very suspicious.

...

[Magua]

Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh

Really? *That's* what you bring to the table?

Who do you think Espeonage should shoot?

[Magua]

i think wooooooooooooooooooosh was a very pro town comment.

That's nice.

VOTE: Lost Butterfly

[Magua]

You should probably shoot Magua, Espe. I doubt he'd think I was scum here as town, since it's fairly obvious I'm town.

Do you think I'm cult or scum?

[Magua]

I doubt you're mafia making those nightkills. So cult.

Do you think I was cult before today, or do you think I was culted last night?

[Magua]

Bogre can't be cult leader. Are you even reading this thread?

You think that I'm cult leader even after D3?

You think I should be shot over Hinduragi?

[Magua]

Above is all directed at Lost Butterfly.

[Magua]

I meant Espe's ability could be that of a scum PR.

I utterly do not care if Espeonage is some form of scum PR.

Utterly. Do not care.

vezokpiraka is a terrible shot. Unless vezokpiraka is the actual cult leader, he's not getting recruited, and everything points to him not being the actual cult leader.

Espeonage shooting scum when we could simply lynch scum is entirely suboptimal. I am on board with lynching vezok. I am not on board with shooting vezok.

Anyone not grasping that Espeonage needs to be shooting cult, not "antitown", needs to lrn2play. And I mean you, Benmage.

[Magua]

Actually... MEOW.

We have a lynch.. lolocopter

I'd be content to lynch Vezo.

Shouldnt we shoot Thor... who would logically be a cult recruit??

Thank god.

[Magua]

CES, read on Hinduragi please.

[Magua]

When did Empking claim?

He didn't.

There's no point in asking if the embodiments are unrecruitable, because the best, most protown thing for the embodiments to do is lie about it.

I utterly do not care if *any* of the embodiments are scum at this point. Seriously. I just don't fucking care. I'm not scared of pissants who'd shoot DGB after D3, because they're dumber than a pile of bricks. Bring that shit up after we've got some dead cult.

Now.

Kindly shoot Hinduragi so we can move on with our lives. Look at his last posts, #2135 and #2136 -- all concerned about Espeonage being scum, Espeonage fakeclaiming his role (despite daykill being a confirmable power), etc.

Anyone who's claimed an embodiment is a bad shot. Sadly, this includes SpyreX.

Borge and Thor are bad shots because they can't be the recruiter due to hasdgfas' investigations.

I really think Benmage isn't the recruiter, and isn't likely to have been recruited last night.

I really think vezokpiraka is scum, and isn't a good shot, but is a good lynch.

Of the remaining pool:

6. CyberSet
7. Lost Butterfly
9. Empking
11. Nexus
12. Cogito Ergo Sum
16. Hinduragi
20. AlmasterGM

I'd arrange them:
16. Hinduragi
9. Empking - Unless he actually comes out and claims Crone, which he hasn't done and I don't believe he is at this point; that happens, take him off
12. Cogito Ergo Sum
6. CyberSet
20. AlmasterGM
7. Lost Butterfly
11. Nexus

[Magua]

Why is AGM so low?

Quite honestly, his play so far has been so bad that he has to be town.

[Magua]

I can't say I find that a very persuasive argument, Magua.

I'm not looking to persuade you. I think AlmasterGM is town. I think he's dead weight, but I still think he's town, and so he's a bad shot for Espeonage to take.

[Magua]

Counting negatives will create skewed results for reasons that should be immediately obvious.

And if it's not immediately obvious:

-Bogre: Investigation
-Thor: Investigation
-Benmage: Didn't read as cult play D3, can't imagine cult would've recruited him N3

Having Espeonage on the list is lulzy.

[Magua]

More lulzy is that of the three people Hinduragi wants shot, two of them were hasdgfas' investigations.

[Magua]

Compared to Hinduragi-town I've seen in other games, your apathy is yet another reason I'm sure you've been culted.

[Magua]

Why would I get recruited last night when Spyrex was calling me the CR? Don't be stupid.

Pretty sure you got recruited N2, not N3.

I'm going to rage for a little bit, because town apparently can't find its own ass with both hands and a map.

MagnaofIllusion

You've got the Magna mislynch D1. Fine, whatever. Quick hammer instead of asking him what he meant by his role being janitored, but, fine, whatever.

MagnaofIllusion (11) - DrippingGoofball, LynchMePls, Hinduragi, SpyreX, Kast, Bilbo Baggins, vezokpiraka, Benmage, hasdgfas, Nexus, AlmasterGM

I'm fairly confident there's actually not a lot of scum on this wagon, though I could go either way on cult. Scum knows that MoI ain't one of their's, is happy to let other people lynch him because by the Benmage or hasdgfas, it's kind of obvious he's going to be lynched. I find Nexus and AlmasterGM's late votes to be more town leaning, because scum would be surer that they'd be dropping an L-1 or hammer vote on a mislynch, and would shy away.

SaintKerrigan

You've got the SK mislynch D2. Looking back, SpyreX claiming an embodiment actually gives me a townier view of his participation in the lynch, because I can at least see where he'd feel so strongly when he's got his own insider information to compare it to. Still think the whole thing was derpy, but fine, whatever.

SaintKerrigan (10) - Locke Lamora, SpyreX, vezokpiraka, AlmasterGM, Empking, LynchMePls, Espeonage, Bilbo Baggins, Thor665, Benmage

Not much to say here; all of the claimed embodiments are on this lynch, probaby for the same reasons that SpyreX stated. Given the claim and the smith/souls mixup, I think its more likely that scum are on this than they were on Magna's lynch; they could be thinking SK was legitimately a cult recruiter and had really slipped, or they could be thinking that either way its a PR getting lynched.

hasdgfas

Then you've got the hasdgfas lynch D3. This wasn't derpy. This was sheer incompetence on town's part, with an extra helping of screw-you on the cult's part. I'm frankly unsure as to whether the scum were actively involved, but I'm hoping they were, because they have gone out of there way again and again to give the game to the cult, and if I'm going to lose this game, I want to be able to thank the scum for making it such a decisive loss.

hasdgfas (9) - Espeonage, vezokpiraka, DrippingGoofball, Thor665, Benmage, SpyreX, AlmasterGM, Lost Butterfly, Hinduragi

I refuse to believe that cult was not involved in the lynching of the cult cop. Absolutely refuse. If the town and scum banded together and said "TROLOLOLOLCULTCOP?WEDONTNEEDNOCULTCOP" all on their lonesome, then, fuck it, game's over, cult win because they're the only ones who will have actually played worth a damn.

You got a big ol' hasdgfas wagon, he gets run up to L-2, claims. SpyreX then votes him, being all, "lolnowaycultcopdoesn'tstopSKwagon" when the chances are really goddamn fucking high that hasdgfas was on the SK wagon for the same reason that SpyreX claims to have been, and is part of the reason why I'm starting to hate SpyreX.

vezok says he's still voting hasdgfas because he thinks its a cult fakeclaim, and makes a somewhat intelligent post which immediately made me think that he was being coached.

empking is all "lolmodprovidedsafeclaim" and then wanders off to do nothing, because he says this while voting me.

AlmasterGM just votes hasdgfas for no goddamn reason, not even trying for a reason.

Then Benmage cc's hasdgfas and it all goes to hell, with Lost Butterfly and Hinduragi provided the L-1 and hammer.

Takeaway from this is there is literally, absolutely, positively fucking no way that AlmasterGM is scum or the cult recruiter. Seriously. There is no way either of those factions sit down and toss off that vote with literally no words or explanation. Danger is too great.

empking may be more likely to be the cult recruiter than I thought. He's done a good job of approving of every lynch while only being on one of them.

Hinduragi is cult for saying "Still, we've got one week to find someone to string up and we are just now coming alive." 2011-06-29 at 5:58pm CST and then hammering 2011-06-29 6:09pm CST, presumably on the basis that Benmage flavor-counterclaimed, without even bothering to ask for details on Benmage's claim, any possible reports, or shit like that. The whole exchange feels very much like "he claimed, I should unvote, oh, LB voted, I can now hammer, =======[]"

Today, Hinduragi's efforts have been directed towards getting vezok shot (got talked out of this), getting me shot (fine, whatev), and getting both of hasdgfas' reports shot. His whole play screams "cult recruit trying to do as much damage as he can before going down." Seriously. Shooting Thor? That's

fucking insane.

Goddamn, the idea that Espeonage reads this and says to himself, "Huh, Thor vs Magua," is quite possibly the derpiest moment in this game that has become a monument to derpitude. People saying that Espeonage is possible scum are definitively wrong on this because a scum-PR

would at least be trying to hit the cult recruiter

whereas Espeonage, as near as I can tell, is playing DietyKabuto and saying "omgyouthinkimscummyonlyscumwouldeverthinkthat". Or, and this would make me sadder, he looked at Hinduragi's #2170 and thought that it represented anything but an attempt at self preservation.

Shooting Thor is motherfucking goddamn pants-on-fire-on-head braindead retarded.

Shooting me is stupid, but only in the, "Oh, Magua, that guy who didn't want the vig claim lynched, and who didn't want the cult cop claim lynched? Yeah. Obvious cult right there," sense. Which is still pretty sizable, but not enough to be bolded.

PEdit: *snores*

[Magua]

UNVOTE: Lost Butterfly
VOTE: Hinduragi

[Magua]

No.

Spoiler: No.

No no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no 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no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no.

Your theory is:
1) Benmage is scum with a PR/fakeclaim, and decided to get the CULT COP lynched. The CULT COP who can ONLY HELP THE SCUM FIND THE CULT.
Or
2) Benmage is a PR and it is very important that this needs to be outted/confirmed.

Die. Now.

[Magua]

Scum wouldn't know he's the cult cop same as I wouldn't. Bullshit theory.

And Benmage could've been recruited at any time during the game. His claiming, saying his flavor, and then saying it was a fakeclaim is suspicious as fuck. ESPECIALLY when it turns out he had actual flavor from SOMEWHERE.

IF IT WAS SO FUCKING SUSPICIOUS WHY DID YOU HAMMER SEVEN MINUTES AFTER HE CLAIMED INSTEAD OF FUCKING ASKING HIM FOR MORE INFORMATION?

[Magua]

FUCK

THAT FAKE HAMMER AGAIN FUCKS WITH ME

FUCK

I still hate you, but its not seven minutes.

[Magua]

FUCK

THAT FAKE HAMMER AGAIN FUCKS WITH ME

FUCK

I still hate you, but its not seven minutes.

No, I had it right the first time.

8 votes on him in #1276. (L-1)
You unvote in #1295. (L-2)
Lost Butterfly votes in #1299 (L-1)
You hammer in #1309

7 minutes.

[Magua]

UNVOTE: Hinduragi

As fun as watching Benmage is, want to read Hinduragi's stuff first.

[Magua]

@vezokpiraka:

Who do you think is town?

@Benmage:

You think vezokpiraka is scum, right? As in, not cult?

[Magua]

Why havent u voted confirmed nontown??

I sheep people who are right.

Otherwise, I ask questions, and I see nothing.

For instance, do you think vezok could possibly be cult? Because I see no way vezok could possibly be cult unless he's the recruiter. I literally see no one recruiting him, ever.

[Magua]

Is there anyone else who'd like me to ruin their wagon by voting for it?
All while no one bothers to vote me for being 'obv. obv. obv. cult?'

I'm learning to hate this game and hate cults.

Less whining please.

[Magua]

VOTE: vezokpiraka

L-1

Hinduragi is a cult recruit. Scum shouldn't shoot him tonight.

[Magua]

vezokpiraka (7) - AlmasterGM, Nexus, Espeonage, Benmage, Thor665, Magua, SpyreX

So how many cult do we have hereeeeeeee. AGM is a fairly likely N2 recruit, I'd say, possibly N3, but it seems less likely.

You think that this post:

Unvote, vote: cow

L-1

Which was well after the claim, is more likely to come from cult or town?

I guess by POE CES could be mafia.

Why mafia and not cult?

[Magua]

@Mod:

Do kills come before or after recruits in the action resolution?

(Or: If a townsperson is killed the night they are recruited, do they flip as townsperson or as recruit?)

[Magua]

Ok.

AlmasterGM was not recruited N3, the night after he jumped onto the hasdgfas wagon, putting it at L-1, with a post that was literally:

Unvote, vote: cow

L-1

He wasn't recruited N4 because of mod answer.

So he was recruited N2.

Which means that Hinduragi was not recruited N2. I don't believe in Hinduragi-cult-recruiter. I don't think Hinduragi would be recruited N3 (because of hammer) or N4, either.

At this point, I'm in favor of a mass name claim; not abilities nor recruitability. Actually, what I really want to know is if anyone claims Embodiment of the Crone.

Slightly relatedly, my gut is telling me that Empking is mafia, not cult; there's too many similarities between his reads and AlmasterGM's reads D2, which reads more as "buddying," which I'm not seeing between a recruiter and a soon-to-be-recruit.

[Magua]

That's logical. Shame you had to ruin it with a random mafia accusation

You asking "Is this true?" in regards to a mafia theory question is incredibly out of character for you.

[Magua]

That's logical. Shame you had to ruin it with a random mafia accusation

You asking "Is this true?" in regards to a mafia theory question is incredibly out of character for you.

Why?

Because you're a smart person, mafia-theory-wise, and are more than capable of knowing what the answer to that question is.

[Magua]

If we assume benmage is a recruit as seems likely, the fact that you've tunneled on him for a while now but pushed someone else for the vig seems awfully convenient. The mechanics of the vig meant that even a recruit shot would be something that the cult would try to avoid, I would think.

When do you think Benmage-recruit was recruited?

[Magua]

P.S. why would Empking as mafia push Maguavig over benmagevig? Mafia should absolutely be culthunting, so unlikely benmage suspicion would be fake or bussing in that case.

This is a good argument.

It ties into exactly why I want to know if anyone claims Embodiment of the Crone.

I'm absolutely assuming that no one who has posted since then claims it, so:

Does Not Claim Crone

9. Empking
10. Magua
12. Cogito Ergo Sum
15. SpyreX
16. Hinduragi
19. Espeonage

Not Yet Spoken

2. Bogre
3. Thor665
7. Lost Butterfly
11. Nexus
17. Benmage

[Magua]

Pretty sure Empking isn't mafia for the way he didn't counterclaim Benmage...Wait, Empking didn't claim Crone. What?

Reading is tech.

D3

Benmage fakeclaims Crone D3.
hasdgfas gets hammered.
Benmage retracts his Crone claim.

D4

Benmage fakeclaims cop-guilty on Lost Butterfly
Empking pushes hard for Benmage lynch
Benmage says "Empking is clearly the Crone" in #1889
Empking neither confirms nor denies this

[Magua]

Ok,

Unless I am missing something, is it not Occam's Razor that the Crone is the scum fakeclaim?

Yes, it is. Well, not "scum" -- could be cult, too, or could've been AGM's role.

Still would be nice for Bogre to make it all official like.

[Magua]

Was AGM pushing for Magua to be shot?

Just wondering as I don't remember it. Not that I think recruiting the person pushing you as CR is especially good play actually, or at least it's not how I'd play cult recruiter but i'm just curious.

If you're curious, how about you go look for yourself?

In other news:

VOTE: Benmage

[Magua]

@Lost Butterfly:

Benmage-town, yes/no?

[Magua]

God, this game.

Let's break it down nice and easy.

Cleared of being CR
2. Bogre - Confirmed as not starting cult. So, not a recruiter. Could be recruited. Could be scum. Utterly do not care.
3. Thor665 - Confirmed as not starting cult. So, not a recruiter. Could be recruited. Could be scum. Utterly do not care.
19. Espeonage - Confirmed dayvig. May be scum. May be recruited, but unless you're going to propose cult-recruiter-with-dayvig-powers, utterly do not care.

Everyone else

7. Lost Butterfly - Meh. Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh. I feel very strongly that Lost Butterfly is not scum. I also feel very strongly that they're a really good cult recruit. I also also also feel very strongly that they're not a cult recruiter. So the level of caring here is kind of low.
9. Empking - Claimed Crone. Reaction to Benmage's D4 fakeclaim supports this claim, so while it's possible that there was a claimswitch going on somewhere, it's more convoluted to get there. OTOH, Empking's play overall has sucked. OTGH, I often feel that Empking's overall play has sucked even when he's town.
11. Nexus - Had really good townread in the beginning. Has gone to shit since. Now is on V/LA till the end of the week.
12. Cogito Ergo Sum - Meh. Replaced LMP, which is more meh. The things he's said today have made sense and been logical, which is a plus, but I don't see much driving force behind it. As in, a lot of correct points are made, but it seems like little is getting pushed.
15. SpyreX - Claimed Maiden. I don't like SpyreX's play, and I've said I don't like SpyreX's play repeatedly. Inconsistencies nag at me. Figure, though, that cult-with-claim would go with a slightly stronger fakeclaim such as cult doctor, instead of simply "unrecruitable," especially given other PR claims like "unrecruitable + <power>"
16. Hinduragi - Don't think Hinduragi is cult at this point. That was based on what Hinduragi did D3, and now I'm pretty certain that AGM was recruited N2, which means Hinduragi is a cult recruiter with brass balls bigger than Texas, or he's just really bad town, and I'm very strongly thinking town.
17. Benmage - Something's fishy here. LB-guilty was a real nice D2 breadcrumb. I liked it. It showed planning ahead. But the "I'm town who's going to fakeclaim cop" mentality falls down when it comes to actually cc'ing hasdgfas. Or, to put it another way, I can see Benmage-VT-who-claims-PR. I can see Benmage-VT-who-breadcrumbs-cop. What I can't see is Benmage-VT-who-has-already-breadcrumbed-cop-cc'ing-other-cop-and-riding-their-lynch.

Benmage > Nexus > Cogito Ergo Sum > Lost Butterfly > SpyreX > Empking > Hinduragi

[Magua]

Lets move this along

unvote vote Benmage

You put yourself at L-1, on a Day where a town lynched is very likely to be when the town loses plurality?

After I flip town, scum shoot Spyrex for CL...unless he's yours .... than shoot Empking.

If you think that one or both of those claims were fake, why were you voting for Hinduragi previous to your self vote?

Hindu is scum as is espe, obviously ...(unless spy is scum)

If you think that Hinduragi is scum, why were you voting for him *over* your thoughts for cult recruiter?

There was nothing good about Magus post.

Humor me. Did you expect to get counterclaimed by Embodiment of the Crone when you claimed it? What was your plan for dealing with that?

[Magua]

If Benmage is worried about a cult recruit hammering him, he can fucking well unvote himself.

You, LB, on the other hand, would do much better to say who we should be voting *for* rather than who we should not be voting.

[Magua]

i'll do what i damn well please to prevent this fucking mislynch.

We need to lynch cult to win at this point. If you think Benmage is towntowntown, but you have *no* suspects for who should actually *be* lynched, then you are dead weight.

coming round to ces being group scum though.

Don't care about scum. Care about cult.

[Magua]

GREAT LB! LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE 104 PAGES AND 5 DAYS AND STUFF.

@CES:

Hinduragi-cult requires explanation that jives with AlmasterGM-cult.

[Magua]

GREAT LB! LET ME KNOW WHEN YOU HAVE SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, AFTER THE 104 PAGES AND 5 DAYS AND STUFF.

well atm i'm thinking we should use a random number generator and lynch someone. or run down till deadline and no lynch.

Lost Butterfly uses Sarcasm on Magua!
...
...
It's not very effective...

[Magua]

rng probs isn't a bad idea actually.

Are you saying that your, personal, ability to identify cult is no better than a die's?

And if that die came up Benmage? Or you?

[Magua]

Ain't no one stopping you.

[Magua]

Be sure to factor in neither Espeonage nor CES hammering on Benmage into your dice rolling.

[Magua]

Post 2561 you don't even vote me... you name me scummiest, but you don't vote me. Nor nexus (strange spot) ...nor CES what are u waiting for?

Probably because I voted you in #2508.

It's also been on the votecounts. You might want to try looking at those too.

Yet you're "amazing" post mistified Hindu.

Hinduragi hasn't posted since #2561. Are you even *reading* this game? How do you conflate Hinduragi with SpyreX?

I don't like using that card... but now that I'm modconfirmed town maybe you will hear that spyrex is scum.

If your argument is "I selfvoted, I only selfvote when I'm town, ergo I'm mod confirmed," then my vote is in a good place.

There's still 2 evil powers at be. My flip and LB calling against it would look ugly for them.

LB started with, "Unvote, a cult recruit would gladly sacrifice themselves to hammer Benmage." I'm curious what his POV is on Espeonage and CES given that neither of them have done this.

[Magua]

Lynching town and its gg.

So your self-voting is admitting that you're scum, or is it being so butthurt that people might think you're scum that you're willing to throw the game?

[Magua]

I posted since then ruling out why I didn't think you were the CR, Magua. After that, I agreed with your post since I was able to rule you out. And you told me to read the thread.

Yes, I was wrong on this. Benmage is simply pissing me off with his "self vote" + "mod confirm" bullshit.

[Magua]

Maybe. I'd bus my recruiter if he was going under this much fire tbh.

Doesn't bussing the recruiter kill every cultist?

Hey.

Hey.

Bogre.

Buddy.

Before we worry about answering that, who do you think is cult, and who do you think is mafia, and who do you think is town?

[Magua]

Benmage, any and all *possible* shred of justification you may have had in your thoughts and your reads was lost the minute you self voted to L-1 and then went on to complain about the stupid town.

I really, really, really, really, really want you to be antitown, because the alternative is that you took your performance from ASoS and decided to outdo yourself.

[Magua]

Tell me my lynch wasn't inevitable with a straight face...and maybe I'll unvote.

Your lynch was not inevitable until you self-voted.

Now that you've self-voted, it's pretty goddamn inevitable.

[Magua]

But everyone needs someone to blame. The unibomber was a solo terrorist .

I have zero problem blaming someone for their own actions. No one self-voted you but you.

Whose looked at SpyreX? Empking?

Do you seriously think that Empking is not the Embodiment of the Crone after you cc'ed him D4? *You* were the one who was saying he was the Crone all along, specifically because of that.

You think SpyreX is some antitown, fine, I can buy that. But do you put a case on him and vote him and exhort other people to vote him? Nah. You're all "Mafia is hard, kill me gaiz."

And now every single word dripping out of your mouth is AtE.

Where's the thinking logically? "I would never violate this self-professed towntell just to win this game"? Fuck that shit. Of course you would. No. I'm pretty goddamn sure you got converted N3 because cult thought you were really a PR.

[Magua]

Magua magua magua.. I hope you're not town. 1 game.. over an infinite... ZZZZZ

Just skip to the point where you say that everyone voting you is scum and everyone not voting you is town.

We can have the theoretical discussion about how always being 100% truthful and never lying in a game of mafia is both a way to increase your win % and a terribly bad idea at the same time after this game.

Do I think scum have safeclaim embodiments??

Yep.

Do you think the *cult* have safeclaim embodiments?

[Magua]

The CL probably.

And so SpyreX is the CL and Empking is scum.

Who did SpyreX recruit?

Who is Empking's other partner(s)?

I mean, with the exception of Nexus who's V/LA, everyone who's not voting you has posted since you've been at L-1. You being the truly dominant town-force you are, that has to be a little bit irritating.

Unless, of course, all the cult/scum are already voting for you.

[Magua]

You aren't the CL or scum... could you be a recruit. Unlikely.

Luckily for me, any game I post this image in I'm modconfirmed town:

Spoiler: Mod Confirmed

You're likely emotional town, who'd rather try and "punish me" then PTW and think logically.

Self voting is antitown. Punishing antitown behavior is protown.

Hindu is scum.

You think scum, D3, would be eager to kill off the cult cop, who posed no threat to them? The same scum who turned around and killed DGB N3, likely because they read her as cult on the hasdgfas wagon?

I've said I'm more comfortable lynching scum than cult.. again and again.

Thing logically and PTW here. If we lynched scum D5, D6, and D7, we'd lose.

Hence I'd vote Hindu if it showed itself viable.

Oh. I see. Your superpowers are only active while you're voting yourself.

[Magua]

Cult leader is you, Nexus, or CES.

The lack of a hammer on you means either you're cult, the cult are *all* voting you (unlikely), or the cult can't afford a recruit to get you lynched.

LMP/Bogre is likely scum, but Thor certainly isn't scum at all. Unsure on a third.

Don't think Hinduragi is scum *or* cult leader. Don't think LB is scum *or* cult leader.

Wish I could say this has been fun.

UNVOTE: Benmage

[Magua]

Magua: Does that unvote follow from the second line in a way I don't understand or are they unrelated?

Given that everyone in the game not voting Benmage has passed up on hammering Benmage ('cept Nexus), I am very curious to hear from some people (LB, Bogre (like that's going to happen), Espeonage) who they *do* want to lynch.

[Magua]

This game is making me headdesk. My justification is like one of those ball in the hole cubes where you just have to smash it until everything falls in to place. because thinking logically about this game gets me absolutely nowhere.

Less QQing and more about who you think the cult recruiter is.

[Magua]

Also, Bogre, I know you're scum.

Sacrifice yourself for your team, admit that you're scum, and give us some direction based on the scum's inside knowledge as to who your team thinks the cult recruiter is.

[Magua]

Vote: Hindu

Explain cult recruiter Hindu hammering hasdgas with cult recruit AlmasterGM so late on the wagon, both in such a terribad manner.

I mean, I could get it if the positions were reversed. I could see cult recruiter AlmasterGM hopping on the wagon near the end, and cult recruit Hinduragi sacrificing himself to hammer. Witness my play D4. But given that AGM has already shown to be a cult recruit, why would the biggest, riskiest, most high profile hammer go to the recruiter?

[Magua]

Explain how that is even justification of why someone isn't antitown. This is traditional wifom. TOO SCUMMYZ TO BE SCUMZ.

Explain to me where I said that. Go back and look at D4 and me SCREAMING at you to shoot Hinduragi and then come back and say where I ever said that.

Then contrast that with, "The *entire* cult jumped on that lynch," which I could possibly buy, and "The *entire* cult jumped on that lynch at L-2 and the hammer vote and did it in the scummiest way possible," which I simply cannot buy...but both of these are required for Hinduragi to be the cult recruiter.

Also hascow's lynch was stupid and quick and anyone could have gotten away with anything on that shitfest.

So why did you shoot CyberSet, who was not on that lynch, over Hinduragi yesterday?

[Magua]

I'm not off it. Nexus is one of the few players I think could be cult recruiter.

I'm not voting Nexus currently because Nexus is V/LA, so it's pointless until he gets back.

[Magua]

@SpyreX, @Empking:

Do you think scum/cult have Embodiment safeclaims?

[Magua]

Why is Nexus off your list?

[Magua]

Same reason you are.

I suffer from a terribly short attention span. Could you explain to me again why he's off your list?

Has Empking even answered this question yet though?

Nope. Does his answer influence your answer at all?

[Magua]

Why do you think Empking is a fakeclaim over SpyreX?

[Magua]

LB, how does your Empking/SpyreX read change if there's an Embodiment of the Stranger claim?

Oh fuck, I thought we massclaimed. I forgot we didn't. Why are we not massclaiming again?

Nexus ain't back until Sunday. I see no reason to talk about mass claiming until that point.

[Magua]

SpyreX/Thor/???

??? ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

This is a cult list or a scum list?

[Magua]

Why would breadcrumbing matter *at all* if it was a mod-provided fakeclaim?

[Magua]

Sorry, guys. Faraday managed to get out of the restraints.

Won't happen again.

[Magua]

Faraday drunk posting is hardly a towntell.

@Mod:

Slow game is slow, but pre-emptively requesting deadline extension due to Nexus' week-long V/LA.

Also requesting you prod Bogre with a stick.

[Magua]

@Bogre:

Seriously, we already know you're scum. Give us a hand with finding the cult recruiter.

@CES:

Cult recruiter does quick turnaround hammer on cult cop rather than having a recruit do it? It just doesn't compute. I don' think that Hinduragi has been acting town-ish in this game, but what he did was perfectly likely to get him killed N3 or D4. I only read his behavior as recruit-like, not recruiter. I really see it as between you and Nexus with Benmage a useless-and-vestigial-stump-where-a-townie-should-be third.

[Magua]

So, Empking, you think that scum have no fakeclaims, no reasons to explain away why they're not recruitable, but cult, who can (in theory) recruit PRs and then role share amongst themselves do have fakeclaims?

Hinduragi: And who is this mysterious cult recruiter? I mean, Nexus is a fine vote, I suppose, but why exactly Nexus over CES or Benmage?

[Magua]

Benmage, are you done with your little hissy fit and ready to vote the person you think is cult recruiter?

[Magua]

I am moving more and more to voting Empking.

[Magua]

@Magua - why aren't you voting? Aren't you some hard case who's gonna whomp me in a brawl or something?

Been there, done that.

I'm not voting because I'm waiting for Nexus to return from V/LA. This might've been evident when I said it, or when I asked the mod for the deadline extension.

Way I figure, it comes down to CES or Nexus (though Benmage still rubs me the wrong way with his pants on head selfvoting, I don't think I'll vote him today. Apparently, playing stupidly is my weak spot.) There's the nagging suspicion in the back of my mind that the cult recruiter has a safeclaim, or that a roleswap occurred, but that's still meh at this point.

[Magua]

You're expecting brilliance from Nexus that will affect your vote?

I don't need brilliance. I need positions and thoughts. I expect Nexus will be able to provide those.

Why do you pick Nexus over CES?

[Magua]

Bogre and Thor cannot be the cult recruiter unless there's some weird hasdgfas-related shenanigans.

I was really thinking that Nexus was going to claim Embodiment of the Stranger.

The thing that bothers me about Nexus isn't so much his lurky play, which I saw in ASoS when he was town-pr, but his lack of reads given before he left for V/LA, and his lack of reads posted so far; he's obviously read because he mentions not hammering Benmage, so he should know he's being actively considered for a lynch.

SpyreX, I agree with you on LB-recruit, but do you see a possible LB-recruiter?

[Magua]

VOTE: Cogito Ergo Sum

Bogre, get in here and tell us who the scum think the cult recruiter is. I see that you've been online. Don't be a dick with your lurking.

[Magua]

This town

Bogre needs electrodes on it's ballsacks.

Fixed that for you.

[Magua]

Your edit left me with bad grammar, but I do not disagree with the core message.

The extraneous apostrophe in "it's" was all on you.

[Magua]

Yeah, my bad, but not my issue; Using 'it' as the pronoun for a human being is.

Which pronoun would you prefer to have used?

[Magua]

Don't care about mafia. Don't care about cult recruits.

Only care about "is this person a possible cult recruiter".

[Magua]

CES, if you're scum, now's the time to claim. I will happily sheep your vote if you do.

[Magua]

I seriously don't understand why anyone would think I'm a CR here. I've consistently argued against relatively easy lynches (anyone who thinks I couldn't get benmage or Nexus lynched over me is kidding themselves). This game would be so easy for me if I were a CR instead of incredibly frustrating (the near negligible odds of winning certainly don't help).

My big problem with this is that I simply do not see Hinduragi as a cult recruiter who goes and hammers hasdgfas -- *regardless* of whether he believed Benmage's claim or not.

Assume Hinduragi is the recruiter.
- He hammers hasdgfas, hasdgfas flips cult cop
- Pretty goddamn high chance that mafia shoot him that Night, or that he gets lynched the next Day. Expect in this case for Hinduragi to be off the wagon, or at least in the middle, and let AlmasterGM take the heat.

- He hammers hasdgfas, hasdgfas flips scum.
- Still a high chance he gets shot by scum, though much less of a chance he gets lynched the next Day.

I mean, if you look at it, the mafia have made very unsubtle kills on people they think are the cult recruiter -- Kast lurked, Bilbo...meh, ok, Bilbo doesn't fit the pattern, but whatever, DGB spearheaded the hasdgfas lynch, AlmasterGM lurked D3 onwards (another sign to an N2 conversion).

Hinduragi acting specifically in that group of people is dangerous, and stupid as cult recruiter.

This is part of the reason I'm almost completely sure that Bogre is scum, and that Thor and LB are not.

[Magua]

DGB got no flak for it D3, and mafia still shot her that night.

I was totally gunning for Hinduragi to die (especially for Espeonage's daykill) up until the point where AlmasterGM flipped recruit.

[Magua]

CES obviously isn't CR.

Explain the "obvious". Use small words. I'm slow.

This guy is the CR or scum. Period he aint town.

LETS REVIEW BASICS ON TOWN. A SCUM CLAIMS YOUR ROLE. YOU COUNTERCLAIM!!!!! 1 for 1, always good. Empking didn't counterclaim because the crone is only his SAFECLAIM and he feared that there might be a double-up.

So you claimed Embodiment of the Crone in order to draw out a town counterclaim?

What was your plan if that occurred?

[Magua]

Did Empking even answer if he's unrecruitable??

STOP FUCKING ASKING THIS QUESTION

If he's scum or cult, the answer is worthless.
If he's town, it's in his best interest to lie.

No matter what he says, it doesn't matter because it won't be believed.

[Magua]

So our other embodiements make no mention of it. If Empking confirms hes unrecruitable...then the discrepancies between SpyreX and Espe lessen.

THATS THE REASONING.

If he is recruitable.

Then fuck 1 of SpyreX/Espe goes... Simple Simple.

YOU THINK HE'S SCUM/CULT WHY WOULD YOU EVEN LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAYS?

God.

Damn.

[Magua]

There's no reason to withhold the information if he is town.

If he's town, the most protown thing he can do is lie about it. If he's scum, his answer doesn't matter. The only people that information benefits are the cult.

You spinning it to me thinking him scum.. is more narrowminded spinning shit.

I'm not "spinning it" that you think he's scum. That's you saying he's scum and voting him.

How did I ever think you a good player in ASoS.. I hope for your sake you aren't town.

Fucking teach me, cult-cop-lyncher-self-voter. Goddamn, if only I could play as well as you.

[Magua]

Do you have extensive experience playing with CES? An example from another game where you're town and you talk about your meta read on him?

[Magua]

Are you bothered that CES-town thinks you're the cult recruiter, and thinks that Nexus is town?

[Magua]

Oh, MAN. I missed that Bogre got replaced!

Locke!

Locke!

Claim that you're a scumbag and tell us who the scum want to lynch. I will sheep your vote like white on rice.