Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[Pine]

Ine replaces TheJakalope

It's spelled "Pine".

I'm a VT. <--Gambit?

Anyone care to bring me up to speed?

[Pine]

C-Worl is always scummy as hell as Town, and Town-ish when scum. I've played a lot of games with him and hydra'd with him, and the fact that there's apparently a lot of suspicion on him is actually a few points in his favor.

Unvote

I'll read through this evening.

[Pine]

Odds are very unlikely that both I and someone I know so well would pull scum in the same game (~1/9). Plus, I wouldn't buddy so hard to a mate, and certainly not without reading the context.

[Pine]

Think whatever you want. I haven't read past the first page yet, and my comment was purely about meta. Take the recently completed Call of Cthulhufish game. C-Worl's first finished scum game, and everyone's strongest townread. Elsewhere, he's always a scum pick and keeps flipping Town. I've learned not to trust my insticts where he's concerned.

[Pine]

Calling C-Worl probTown without reading the game...buddying in my book. The shoe fits though, as I'm actually fond of the little twit.

[Pine]

Heel, boy.

[Pine]

What? Meta isn't to be used to clear or condemn anyone. It's a tool.

Voting for replacements before they can have a chance to even read the thread is very scummy. Sathoris at least made an effort to justify it.

[Pine]

Replacements are one of the Town's biggest advantages, asshat. We look at things with new eyes and have the chance to provide new insight. Replacments are not burdened by confirmation bias, and often become game-changers.

Immediately attacking replacements to discredit them is one of the most self-serving and scummiest things one can do in this game. Especially when they're replacing into a slot that is a nearly clean slate.

[Pine]

Actually, what we're both more or less saying is simply that we don't trust our reads of each other.

It's you folks that keep reading more into that simple statement.

[Pine]

VOTE: Sathoris

I've heard enough. I don't take votes on me personally, but the moon logic Sathoris is pushing makes it an obviously fabricated do-nothing case designed to make it appear like he's doing something.

[Pine]

Scum C-worl would have better reasons of making his gameplay with Pine known than town C-Worl.

I don't agree with this. At all. It is a thoroughly null tell, and the fact that Sathoris is going to such great lengths to justify his attacks further cements my suspicions of him.

[Pine]

^I can't tell if this interaction is scummy, or simply due to age and inexperience.

[Pine]

Jilynne, if you're going to say something like that, at least have the guts to address it to someone or something specific. Spouting accusations aimed at no one are far more useless than even the active lurking of DK and sorasgoof, as they don't make the pretense of being useful.

In other words, Mafia is not a game where being nice and polite earn you points. Tact and diplomacy have their place, but being coy about an accusation does not.

[Pine]

Again, I can't tell whether it's age, inexperience, or scumminess.

That's what makes VIs and the very young hard to read.

[Pine]

Jilynne, if you're going to say something like that, at least have the guts to address it to someone or something specific. Spouting accusations aimed at no one are far more useless than even the active lurking of DK and sorasgoof, as they don't make the pretense of being useful.

In other words, Mafia is not a game where being nice and polite earn you points. Tact and diplomacy have their place, but being coy about an accusation does not.

Which post are you referring to here? Jil pretty much called DK out directly for it, isn't that at least someone?

It wasn't obvious to me (PE: or sorasgoof, apparently). Specificity is important when you're using loaded language, and DK's last post was six before hers. A quote or an @DK would have been useful. I'm not actually positive she was talking to DK, as she refers to frequent posting. Hardly DK's strong suit.

[Pine]

Meh, whatever. Useless avenue of discussion anyway.

More votes on Sathoris please. Deity Kabuto is almost as good.

PE: Point out a useless post of mine or shut up, jilynne.

[Pine]

And yet...you fail to do the actual scumhunting you reprimand others for not doing.

I think that makes me Person G? My alphabet gets a little fuzzy after C or D.

[Pine]

I did. At far earlier ages than 13, though.

It is not the norm, however. Neither is a presence on these forums at 13.

[Pine]

DK is making sense to you? He hasn't said anything in pages.

Vezok isn't much better.

[Pine]

Yeah, where has DK contributed to the thread at all? Is that a new PR, to post content where only some people can see them?

[Pine]

People flying under the radar and stuff, I want to see more people posting reads.

How about starting with your own?

QFT

UNVOTE: Sathoris
VOTE: DeityKabuto

[Pine]

@ShadowGuru: I've had a busy week. I don't really have a good excuse. With less time available to me, I've been paying more attention to the games I enjoy, have an interesting role in, and am already invested in.

[Pine]

Formal case: DK has not contributed anything of substance in this entire game, but has trolled and actively lurked for days. Further, he claims a protective role and tries to deflect onto a different easy lynch.

Scum.

Real bodyguard should not counter-claim.

[Pine]

DK, your entire premise of "Oh my god you suck, pressuring a pro-Town player!" is predicated on you being Town AND us knowing that you're Town. You probably aren't and we wouldn't know regardless. Your logic is like a lead balloon.

And not that crazy-thin lead balloon that the MythBusters made just to prove it could be done.

PE: Jilynne, I've seen you do this nonsense before, so I'll regard it as a nulltell. But protip: As a Townie, one's only weapon is their vote. Use it, even if you're not certain, to provoke reactions and probe hunches. It often produces more solid evidence, like DK's implosion.

[Pine]

Whoa whoa whoa. As much as I'd be happy to have DK be our D1 lynch, that is L-1.

Let's not be overly-hasty.

[Pine]

^Disregard, I forgot for a moment that I replaced into this game. It feels like a quick day to me, but it's really not. We're at over two weeks with plenty of leads and directions to go on D2.

I'd like some last reads and such from DK before he gets hammered, in the case he flips Town.

[Pine]

Earworm's post pondering kills sounds like his own kill didn't go through.

The SK is also a roleblocker, earworm. Could also be that the Mafia hit their traitor.

Ironhead's vote on Earworm MIGHT be him trying to get out in front of being near the end of the DK wagon, but I think Earworm more likely.

[Pine]

Vote: Earworm

[Pine]

Cobbler's deductive reasoning about scenarios with two kills strikes me as Townie. As previously stated, Earworm's blunt surprise at the lack of a kill without thinking it through strikes me as scummy/viggy (as in he had a kill that failed).

[Pine]

Vote: Earworm

...and? Is there a point to that post, or just trying to look busy?

[Pine]

It appears that Mask was trying to sheep m vote and fucked it up.

[Pine]

Outstanding. Sup Amrun? Wagon up on earworm.

[Pine]

Wagon up on earworm.

Before you do, please read through and offer a fresh perspective on the game; your reads, and (if you agree with the case on earworm) why you think earworm ought (or ought not) be lynched today.

This too. Honestly, I hate it when people do what I just did to replacements. I suppose that makes me a hypocrite.

[Pine]

I got home safely from vacation, pretty jet lagged. I'm trying to use this afternoon to catch up, but I'm afraid this game is one of my lowest priorities, given its relative lack of activity and my confidence in the progression of its major wagon.

[Pine]

Why did you hide behind Ironhead?

[Pine]

No. Iron was a terrible pick.

Hiders are weak investigative roles. You don't hide behind your Town reads, you don't hide behind your scum reads. You investigate a null read to get information and a clear.

Hiding behind a Town read is purely self-preserving, and gains the Town nothing.

[Pine]

Check the name of the thread, Amrun.

Did I really claim my role? What benefit to Town would there be to that?

[Pine]

Pine: why claim it if you are then going to unclaim it? True or not, what was the purpose of your claim?

To make the scum think I'm trying not to draw the NK. Or to make them think I am. Or perhaps I want them to think I'm trying not to draw the kill by actively looking for it. Or maybe...

Scum aren't the only ones that can use WIFOM in a game with obscured flips. And I'm not retracting it. I'm a VT. Or so I would like the scum to believe.

[Pine]

Jily, if I were scum, you'd have a solid Town read on me.

Voting for C-flake before he can be replaced? No. Thought you might be dumb Town before that post. I'm now fully comfortable with this vote:

Unvote
Vote: Jily

[Pine]

Being 13, means that I don't have to work and that, yes, I do have time to sign up for 10+ games

But apparently not with the capacity to give all of them their due. Please do not sign up for more until you get down to a manageable number. You're droppng the ball in every game we share.

Unvote
Vote: Peregrine

[Pine]

Peregrine, what were your results? How do you know you're insane? If you flip insane, we still get information by inverting your results.

[Pine]

^The above retaliatory attack is an awkward hybrid of OMGUS, strawman, and AtE.

[Pine]

Gah. Preemptive prod dodge. In regard to people telling me how to vote, I need to do some catch up and re-familiarize myself with this game.

[Pine]

Yeah, so kill a townie because he has a different opinion than you do. Good show.

If nothing else, I do not perceive this as a Town response to the wagon on oneself.

Unvote
Vote: Chkflip

Just got back from V/LA. Had a great time with my family and my girlfriend's family in the Adirondacks, but had even worse 3G coverage than expected. See you all on D3.

[Pine]

Sorry for being a bit flaky of late, hell week at work. I'll catch up over the course of the weekend.

[Pine]

Vezok lynches are alway fun.

[Pine]

lolSK-hunting.

Was still half-joking with my last post. Not anymore. That plus this:

Vote: Vezok

, I don't think there's any reason or motivation for the SK/RB to block vezok. No scenario I can think of for that makes sense to me right now. Nor protecting someone other than a claimed cop.

Just for curiosity, who did you target previously, Vezok? What was your motivation to guard them?

I didn't guard anyone on night 1.

I had no strong leads and I like being alive.

...makes me go...

Vote: Vezok

L-1

[Pine]

...waiting for activity...

[Pine]

Depends on your role and the mod.

[Pine]

^Scumclaim. Town doesn't hammer themselves without a DAMN good reason, like mine in NY129.