Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Andrius]

Andrius is replacing! Wooooooooooooooot!

<333

So yeah. I meant to read the whole game tonight and post a massive catchup, but I played Monster Hunter Tri until late so I had less time. I plan on spending tomorrow night reading up and being all caught up by the time you guys wake on Saturday. Sound good? Great.

Also, for the record, the ending of Succession I sucked because all the townies were just recruited in endgame. It rewarded bad town-play and basically said "oh its ok don't worry about being town for long- let the cults fight and you guys can get endgamed". NOT A FAN. HELL, THE RULES WERE EVEN BENT FOR SINGER WHO WAS UNRECRUITABLE.

So yeah. I'll be caught up by Saturday. Expect a massive post, though. (I'm already a good portion of the way through, but one really big post is better than two big posts so.)

-Andy

p.s. Let's hear it for the teamsters!

[Andrius]

Sorry I had unexpected company drop by my house tonight- spending the night and all.
Reading delayed until tomorrow.

<3
Andy

[Andrius]

Hi Andy - Knowing the level of your epic readings I trust you will see that Chronopie is the obvious recruit choice at this point in the game. <3 xvart.

Actually, I

have

noticed that. The self-degratation early on definitely caught my eye.
I'm reporting in that I'm halfway through the game.
The pace is my fault- I meant to be done by now but I figured I'm go try Monster Hunter's online capabilities and therein lost a couple hours. So I'm behind schedule, yes. Reading nonetheless.

I've pretty much started ignoring everything from Kinetic and ABR since most of it is lol-posting to avoid prods or whatnot. I think that might actually one of their best strategies- besides for WIFOM-slinging, of course.

Again, apologies for my slow pace.

<3,
Andy

[Andrius]

Vote: Flameaxe

for Succession I. You're lucky Flay doesn't trust me with a six-shooter, or else you and the rest of your old-country mob would get venge-killed.

Any other questions?

If the recruiters are unlynchable, does that mean they will start by recruiting someone during pregame so that we have targets to hunt and lynch on day 1?

I assume they start with someone on their team? We had no N0, and well, D1 would be pointless otherwise.

This. D1 without any scum to lynch would be Beyond Bastard.

So... should we start dabbling in WIFOM of who each of them would have picked?

I don't think it would benefit us much, actually. Besides for personal grudges and all, I don't think it would help. Unless there's a A-list grudge going on that might influence recruition or whatnot.

So who did you pick?

You. Please check the QT for further instructions.

So it looks like I'm not the only truck driver in this joint.

Remember you cannot trust an alignment tell from one day to the next. (at least not a towntell.)

Yes you can. Remember the guy called "Andrius" in Succession I? Yeah. Loyal until the end.
There's more than likely unrecruitable roles/powers out there, so.

Ain't nothing wrong with driving trucks for a living. I drive for Panera.

I will grow wary of people who dismiss this speculation as 'wine in front of me'. It is essential to winning this game. We need to get in the heads of ABR and Kinetic.

This guy's got his head on overdrive. I like it. Can't make deliveries happen if you're in Neutral. Towntell for being proactive and attempting to get somewhere in the game.

Or better yet, we can just hunt scum the way we always do, and pay no heed to the sirens.

They say that the road ain't no place to start a family.

What'll it be this time, DGB. Masons or Neighbor-Vigs?

Also, I'm going to encourage fast and timely deliveries during this game. The problem with Succession I, for me, was that the last gameday was 5:5:1 and all the other townies either a) gave up b) were waiting to be culted and win. It was basically me and xvart (other cult) against Flameaxe and Co. I was bitter that the remaining townies simply gave up on the game at that point- whoever didn't die would simply be endgame'd into the cult and win. Its like, why the hell play the game at all then? We could just sit here and let the cults duke it out until we were all culted for a mass LOL-win. Thanks for playing and not caring. Thanks for playing and throwing out your wincon. Thanks for leaving everyone who came before nothing. Someone has to make the stand. And we died for what we stood for- enemies, yes, but we died allies in the fight against a greater threat.

Chrono, shut up. I'd recruit you N0. I know you can play a mean game when you're motivated. And let's be honest- a mob that bakes its victims alive would be pretty badass.

the town's best interests to try and kill one of us dead as quickly as possible, or failing that to get recruited by the bigger cult.

NO. I'd rather die a townie than be recruited- even in Endgame, as some of you witnessed in Succession I.

makes an unrecruitable role doubly bad though for town. Unrecruitables HAVE to play for the town WC no matter what

This is bad how? I find it to be a blessing. Maybe its because I love being loyal to the cause, to those who died for what we believed in.

but if they are ever outed, its also in the town's best interest to lynch them for fear they are one of the other's cults. And it makes it in the cult's best interest to out such a player to get them lynched, its a plus no matter if its a town PR or the other cult's choice.

Though I hadn't thought of this at all either. :/

[wifom]We as town know they're good choices to recruit, because they're good, so they're likely recruits (As opposed to say... Katsuki, bunny, or myself, who tend to be erratic at best), which in turn means that town needs them to die, in order to kill the cult, which in turn makes them bad choices to recruit specifically because they'd be good choices, thus good lynches for town to make, thus bad recruitment choices.[/wifom]

The amount of Chrono putting himself down and trying to make himself seem like a bad recruitment choice is making me notice him more and more. You are a good player, Chrono. Don't forget SSBMafia. You play well when you're motivated. (p.s. Bunnylover is amazing as well. Readable, yes. But a good chap when you need someone to ride with you for HOV lanes.)

I like the fact the two godfathers have agreed on this plan yet all town players who have posted thus far have ignored it. Im of the opinion of DGB, we carry on as normal.

So wait, you mean the plan where they list people they think the other recruited and lynch only those players?
It is in their best interest to survive, not lynch the other. If you remember from Succession I, the team that killed lost because they only had a couple members. The team that constantly recruited won because they GREW. So if they can survive best by lynching townies and relying on kills to thin out the other cult, then so be it.

Kinetic/ABR: I don't know if this was brought up before, but in order to win you must eliminate the other, yes?

Vote: Porochaz

This is whom I would have recruited ..

After last game, I'm pretty sure I would have shot him first.

With the way Albert and Kinetic have been going on, paranoid me is thinking it's very probable they didn't get to recruit pregame and that they are misdirecting and possibly covertly discussing the splitting of their culting right now.

Wait, so you think that they haven't recruited yet, yes?
That means there's no anti-town players out there whom we can lynch.

Vote Fritz

The city councilperson is an irresistible mafia recruitment option.

Why? And you're rolefishing.

I'd recruit the doctor even if he weren't guranteed to be a "role-doctor".

Explain please.

I don't think I'm allowed to say why.

This too.

- Question if why would Flay-mod design a game in such a manner that it's an all town slug fest in the first day?
- Plus White flag rules denote they've already lost if that's the case

This.

The recruits:

Ooba
xvart
Magister Ludi
Herodotus

Maybe
No
NO
Maybe

Timestamps is an interesting methodology though, DGB.

(unless he tried to recruit and failed due to Kinetic picking the person he recruited causing his recruit to fail; which makes me wonder if there is a white flag clause that if the N0 recruit fails they get a backup so they don't insta-die).

You bring up a good point. My first reaction was "oh then they don't get a member then" but then they WOULD insta-lose so they'd HAVE to get another member........... so the first solution to that problem would be they would have to start out with one player each- OH OH OH also for balance purposes they could still recruit N0/pregame to prevent a quick-loss D1 by losing their only recruit AND not doing the day-recruition thing from last game.
PERFECT, XVART.
THIS IS GOLDEN.

This makes me think Chrono was actually recruited. Why would he demean his overall play twice in 1.5 hours and go into the WIFOM analysis that would better be served by a recruiter? And, the whole "care to tell us how many you recruited" just seems like a throw away, forced conversation with no obvious point.

Good thinking.

If I'm recruited by mobster A, mobster A will fail, and I will instead by added to mobster B's group.

And I'm Unrecruitable.

xvart:

I really need to stop apologizing to players that lost games I was in on the opposing side. I definitely just read GoT end game again, that was about the last game I played here too.

Talk to your recruit in the QT. You don't need the thread for that.

The point is he has nothing important to say in-thread so he posted white noise.

Us teamsters need to stick together.

'Sup. Hey, did you know that if you take a truck down Independence Avenue going over 33mph you'll get air as you come off the crest in the road?

As far as DGB's plan goes, I'm not sure that there is any sense in focusing on four players for two days to not clue the recruiters into where were are collectively heading.

Here was my list of most likely recruits:

Fritz L. R. Hernandez, City Councilperson
Herodotus Greco, Corrupt Cop
Mr. Sam Ludi, Corrupt Cop
Charles "Chaz" Poro, Business Owner
Ms. Spring Lullaby, Banker
Anahito Xvart, Teamster

Why are you doing this?
What good does listing potential recruits do just based on roles?

Also, I'm somewhat upset that I'm not a Baker. Just saying.

though I do think that Chrono is worth a vote for now due to his self-deprecation.

QFT

The recruits:

Ooba
xvart

Magister Ludi

Herodotus

Yes.

Vote: Magister Ludi

Why?

-I don't think Flay would have made it such that doublepicking = auto loss for the second guy
- On the other hand, telling the second person about the double picking and allowing them to pick again is actually an advantage (since they would know the recruit of the first guy)
So the most probable pregame pick method was : Both of you send in your choices, if they don't clash, those are your recruits - otherwise repeat.

Or that. That works better, actually.

Okay, I think Yosarian might be the other recruit.

Reasoning is..?

On another note, I could see Prozac being recruited since he had announced V/LA for an extended period of time in the sign up thread.

Cool, I've got an excuse to shoot him on top of for Succession I.

I didn't know we teamsters all had different roles. I also didn't know if we all had the same role. I won't say anything else.

I keep forgetting xvart is the third teamster.
Say, why don't you swing by #33 later tonight- we could have a beer and check out the new exotic dancers there.

It was more like me trying to not lynch a potential PR.

Everyone is a potential PR. You can't tell by the profession. It's pointless thinking along these lines.

This. DGB beat me to it.

I know it's been said before, but simply to minimize risk, I don't think that anyone (who isn't an alt) with a recent join date is a reasonable candidate to have been recruited last night.

This is WIFOM. Unadulturated WIFOM. :/

I'm liking Tanarin. More content about players/ the game though; less general opinions please.

Interesting, most people think avoiding the ultra high profile players because they are too 'hot' of a recruit is a good idea. If I was a recruiter, I would go straight for Yosarian2. Don't screw around with other people. Does no one think similarly?

Personally, after Succession I, I'd definitely avoid anyone from the winning scumteam (besides Chrono) out of pure spite. Gurgi/ss/chaz would also be low on my list.

Also, how do we know the recruiters have QT's and day talk? Was that customary from Succession Mafia 1?

We don't know DayTalk status. They didn't in I though. QTs are standard for mafia-related topics.

And personally, I'd love if Seraphim was culted AGAIN. Just saying.

I've reread Kinetic and ABR's opening post in this game. They're weird, both talk about 'choosing' the right side in the war and 'joining' them.

Because they think that the only way to win is by choosing a side.
It isn't.
The town is here, and the town is STRONG. Like an 18-wheeler going 80 barrelling down Independence Avenue.

What are you saying to Kinetic in your recruiter only quicktopic?

What.
What is this. Please explain.

Those of you who read the first Succession Mafia will recall what happened there.

I still think, while I made the wrong choice, that I was pretty much fucked over D6 when there were 0 townies left to help me. I was the only one who hadn't given up.

Question to everyone:
Does anyone think either of ABR or kinetic would have been ballsy enough to put their recruitment pick in their 3 that they suggested to each other?

Why does this matter? (No, why would they?)

We could lynch scum every day and still lose, if they successfully recruit each night and don't get vigged.

Only if we alternate groups. If we lynch correctly today we're great- but yes, we'd have to either stop recruition or double-lynch or drive straight over some culted suckers at night. Meh. Its doable.

Though, optimal play seems clear to me. Lurk until my eventual mislynch.

The hell.
Play or replace out you useless sack of shit.
Translation: Kat hasn't been culted.

This infuriated me then, especially as in the end I was right about the size of cults in the factions and I wasnt believed because "yos said differently".

Don't even start talking about that game. Seriously, don't even get mad.

I questioned Flay about this and obviously he couldn't say anything but did make it clear town can win the game.

Great, I was worried for a moment there.

I know the role I have. I was halfway sure that all teamsters might've had it too. To explain in short: I'm unrecruitable. The scum will have to lynch or kill me. That's the difference that made me not want to lynch you.

Srs bsns?

CLAIMED UNRECRUITABLE PLAYER!!!

LYNCH THE FUCK OUT OF HIM PLEASE!!!

Cool story bro.
Is it bad that I think Kinetic is bluffing?
I kinda want to see Cobberlfone die.

If you were really unrecruitable, your goal should have been to act really town and try to "soak up" some recruitment attempts, not to claim.

So how would you go about "soaking up recruitments attempts"? Its not hard to eat a NK- but how do you soak recruitments?

On the other hand, an unrecruitable fakeclaim makes a lot of sense for a recruit to make. You wouldn't have to worry about the other side trying to recruit you and finding out your alignment that way, for one thing.

Well obviously. Thinking though- we only had one in Succession I (and was pretty much me the whole game).

I thought we weren't mentioning town reads?

I must have missed the memo. Are we or are we not?

I really, really want to find a scum today.

I really, really want to pull off a town win. Preferably with Flameaxe's body hanging from a gibbet, having flipped cult. But y'know.
I agree though- we need to move fast and hard against the scumbags, which means no holding back. (It'll be interesting though, I can't see the cults killing tonight if they can, so it should all be Vig-work I think).

Only if we're willing to make a 180 turn on a whim.

Only if you're willing to Vig Equinox.

I have a great plan for tomorrow if I'm alive.

I have a great plan for tonight. I'm going to run over some cultists with an 18wheeler. You want in, for old times' sake?

Suddenly I miss robocopter.

Plus, hell, maybe he can help us scumhunt for Kintetic's recruit.

Albert, who do you think Kinetic would recruit night zero?

Kinetic, who do you think Albert would recruit night zero?

You think this is actually going to work?

If the cult recruiters have only recruited once, and they lose if their faction only has one person, why have they not already lost?

Because they have one member (or two) already, idiot.

Also, Is it even possible to beat the cult?

YES
MY GRANDFATHER UMBERTO DID NOT DIE IN VAIN.

Ludi's new streak for "can we even win" rubs me the wrong way. Its more likely to come from town, yet..

Does DGB have a habit of not actually giving reasons? I mean, everyone seems to respect her, but I don't actually see a lot of content.

She's town. Move on.

Cecily is not with ABR. Calling it now.

You're too shy to mention the fourth faction in this game I take it?

What is this I don't even

Vote: Magister Ludi

What day were you recruited in Succession 1?

Pretty sure he was the N1 recruit, actually. I caught him N3 IIRC. N4 was Quagmire, N5 was endgame.

I think we should collectively agree that if there are any town actions that interfere with a lynch that it should not be used today for any reason; so if any shenanigans happen with the lynch (remove votes, pardons the lynch, etc.) we know it is a mob motive and can act accordingly.

Agreed. Governors are inherently anti-town. Read: Storm of Swords Mafia, Superhero (lol) Mafia.
Governors are bad. If you are one,

kill yourself

don't use it.

Its too bad we simply can't lynch the female characters and know we'd hit scum molls. :/

I have a feeling that the CR wouldn't recruit ANYONE high-profile for D1, if not to avoid even the slightest chance of losing D1.

Discuss.

I'll raise the bet:
There are 24 other players in this game.

Discuss.

I have an anti-recruitment power DGB. If I use it on you, you can't be recruited by anyone else.

Ok, Tanarin's repeated avoiding specifics about players reads off to me. He comments on general going ons like claims but avoids talking about specific players or things they've said.

Bunny, Kat is town. Unvote please.

if one of the recruiters failed, then they would be dead due to the white flag rule.

I'm certain there was something in place to prevent this from happening.

I can taste the OMGUS like the smell of diesel fuel in the morning.

Let me last at least one night. If I'm scum the other scum will kill me anyway.

No.
No.
No.
Horrid logic.
The cult will always recruit over kill, especially early-game. Especially if they have to recruit or kill. The winning cult of Succession I didn't kill. Ever.
The losing cult lost because they killed (and had shitty luck).

@ABR, what do you think of Cobblerfone?

What the fuck are you doing?

I'm also thinking about Succession I and if there are similar vig roles out there. The problem with the vig's is they need to shoot well to give us a chance, but we also don't want them waiting too long and falling into the mob hands. This might be a radical (possibly stupid) idea but would it be worth discussing maybe setting up a list of people to kill tonight and use all the vig bullets before the Cult can use them?

xvart. You are a Teamster. You drive an 18-wheeler. You figure out the rest.

ooba has good case. Cobbler is more scummy read now.

So guys, I am going to claim: I am not a vig, and I am going to travel every single night, in the hopes that I find something in one of those buildings that gives me a vig kill.

Too bad you're not a teamster.
Who needs guns when we have 18wheelers we can plow into buildings? /yeah so we might die doing so but hey this is war and war is not sacrifice-less

So yeah. Halfway mark for my post.

Scumreads (in no order)
Ludi
Cobberfone
Battousai
Chrono
Flameaxe

And yes I know I haven't elaborated much I'm halfway through and its more important to get stuff out there and reads than not to at all.
DGB is a sexy town goddess. Katsuki is a not-sexy town lurker. NS is town (because I am town and I don't think we've ever been opposite alignments before). I've got a crapload of townreads and a handful of scumreads.

FLAY: I take it we can't get an "adrenaline rush" in regards to deadline?

-Andy

[Andrius]

Scumlist:
Add lullaby. Forgot about her in her non-existance.

-A

[Andrius]

Andy - I expect you to know what to do tomorrow.

Real-day or game-day?

-A

[Andrius]

But yes, investigating scum is always my priority.

-A

[Andrius]

You have andy voting twice, by the way.

I'm a double-voter.
Once I get my first delivery in on time I get an extra vote.
Scared?

[Andrius]

This sentence:
"Andy - let me predict your future: you have a long and frustrating game ahead of you."

It can't be as bad as the first one- unless every townie left alive pulls a "fuck you town" and waits to get recruited for LOLwin.

[Andrius]

NS is town (because I am town and I don't think we've ever been opposite alignments before).

This is obviously silly faillogic. I assume it's code for "gut or meta".

xvart is right that the wagon on him is questionable; it's also full of parked votes and little argument after the first few RL days, which, on day one, are characteristic of a group that isn't scumhunting. BUT, assuming there are no teams of scum, I'm not sure this is much of a defense per se.
If you had been working all along like you have recently, the wagon on you may have gone away...

It is gut-meta. He's scummy and lurky as fuck even as a God. So I think he's town; plus he's not trying to do much of anything. (And a crappy recruitment choice, but.) Is the second block to me? Because I don't have a wagon.

Can we lynch springlullaby? Or Ludi? xvart reads town right now.

On the cult-target-buildings deal, I feel like if that is true, while minimizing movement WOULD prevent them from getting to us easier, but we need to move to make deliveries and whatnot, so.

[Andrius]

OH SWEET.
I thought deadline was TONIGHT, when its TOMORROW NIGHT.
Cool because I have to go to a meeting later, so.

[Andrius]

She has a point...
GAHHHH At this point I most like a Chrono lynch out of Chrono/xvart/Yos.

YES I KNOW YOS IS A FREAKING GOOD PLAYER AND WAS EARLY-RECRUITED LAST TIME.
xvart read town to me early on, and Yos has been playing consistently. Chrono's self-depreciatinon and coming in here at deadline and all. Yes I know he was LA but even earlier it was similar. Strategic lurking, perhaps.

GLAD I GOT HERE IN TIME.

Vote: Chronopie
Vote: Chronopie

The second one's Umberto's.

[Andrius]

Also, Yos, I have an 18wheeler. I don't know about the other 24 players, but I'm pretty sure Doctors and Corrupt Cops and other Teamsters and DJs and whatnot might have nice, shiny vig-kills.

Or a crate full of AK-47s from Russia.

What I'm saying is I highly doubt we would come to tomorrow with no one dead.
Yes of course the cults will recruit, but with all the awesome up in here I doubt we'd all make it here tomorrow.

[Andrius]

YOU GUYS WITH TOWN PMS ARE NOT PLAYING TO THE WIN CONIDTIONZ and want to keep yosa because its fun to play with

SERIOUSLY¡?

Don't even START talking to me in a cult game about not playing to your wincon.
Don't even.

And don't be a prick about the lynch either. I'll be around for deadline; if Yos is hammer-able at deadline I'll drop it. But I can't push anything alone at deadline, so.

-Andrius "Raudhr" Umberto II

[Andrius]

No, my double vote was fake.
A little nod to my town loss in Succession I.

[Andrius]

So with my one and your one he's at 12.

[Andrius]

Oh.
Well, Fritz's comment makes alot more sense now.
The vote was intentional. I didn't think I'd actually hammer him though. lol Didn't see Yosarian's vote.

OH WELL. DIEDIEDIE SUCCESSION I MOLL.
FOR UMBERTO.

[Andrius]

i just hate that people are playing to future win conditions rather than the current ones

You weren't the last townie standing in Succession I. (But yes I hate it too.)

Hero, I hammered. Unless you like overkill.

[Andrius]

i just hate that people are playing to future win conditions rather than the current ones

I do too, but I think part of it might be based on what role they enjoy playing more. Those who like to be scum may be more inclined to speculate that they will be recruited and potentially win as cult.

And then there's those of us who would rather die than be culted.

[Andrius]

I haven't forgotten this game, I'm just leaving now for a week+ in Europe and won't be back until July. Toast will cover for my slot while I'm gone.
Also, Yos, don't assume you were RB'd. I spent my nights beating people upside the head last game and I was no RB.
Going to PM Flay/Toast to make it official whatnot.
<3, A

[Andrius]

Which idiot vig'ed me?

YOU CAME BACK? <333 I MISSED YOUUUU

But yeah who's the idiot who killed me I'm going to kill them.

Awesome game, though watching from the dead thread wasn't nearly as cool as playing to to the wire.
VERY HAPPY FLAMEAXE LOST.
Wish he was cult and lost but yeah whatever I'll get my revenge.
Next time we're killing Yos N0.

*sigh* Freaking Vigs.

[Andrius]

Next time we're killing Yos N0.

(shrug) Next time, cult recruiter shouldn't target me night zero. That nearly cost Kinetic the game back on day 1, it was too obvious.

See, the best thing about Flay games is that you get a nice mix of oldies and newer players (and people in the middle like me).
I like Cult games because they're a challenge.
But its hard to balance them and most mods can't get that to that level.

[Andrius]

<3's to LLD who protected me all the time.
NS... yeah don't shoot me thats never a good idea.
lol @ Kinetic and I visiting the same place.

Abandoning the "Hope" motif, he tells me to kill them all.

HOW CULT GAMES SHOULD ALWAYS WORK.
NO BULLSHIT RECRUIT EVERYONE LEFT STANDING.
YOU SHOULDN'T GET A REPRIEVE FOR FAILING AT YOUR WINCON.

[Andrius]

Yeah but in Succession I every townie (except me, who opted to die) was culted in endgame for a big happy win. "Its ok you didn't really try at the end, here's a win anyway!"
Sorry but that just sucked. Because we played ALL GAME against the cult and people just gave up. :/

[Andrius]

Yeah, a general sense of apathy always sets in on towns during or towards the end of cult games usually. Its really frustrating because people start not caring.

This. :/