DEFCON Mafia 3.0 - Over, American Victory!

[Mina]

Confirming in the sense that I've read my role PM, but I still haven't decided whether or not to vote total warfare yet. Big analysis post coming tomorrow when I'm more lucid. I'm trying to see if there's a way to completely break this game, but the terrorist role throws a wrench into things.

[Mina]

Only Euro Cowards "analyse" things.

Real Americans shoot first and ask questions later

By any chance are you Internet Stanger's alt?

[Mina]

I come bearing still no content. My idealistic hope was that I could singlehandedly break the game with a Battleship-protects-Espionage-who-clears-a-player-who-is-declared-sole-survivor-when-Armageddon-comes plan, and thus coast to victory without having to do any scumhunting whatsoever. But then I realized that I forgot about Counterintelligence, and then that I'm too lazy to actually assign people draft lists or calculate statistics or account for a billion other role interactions. Therefore, while you valiant hardworking townies are proving your devotion to the American cause by discussing the relative merits of Radar vs. Fighters vs. Eavesdrop, I am just going to lurk in the shadows until DEFCON 3, a shady non-contributor with possible European or terrorist sympathies.

(Actually, just one thought: silo is objectively better than half the roles on the list,

but

something that really put a lot of pressure on the scum last game was that it was a de facto smalltown game by Day Three. Everyone knew just who had a nuke, and there was no leeway to fakeclaim. This is more a factor for catching the Europeans than the terrorist, but as wide a spread of roles as possible is probably optimal.)

However, Swift, I would be very interesting in knowing exactly how you managed to wrangle a town read from me after one "Post later." Are you scum again, Faraday?

Oh, and where did your LLD scum read come from?

[Mina]

Running out now, but quickly:

However, Swift, I would be very interesting in knowing exactly how you managed to wrangle a town read from me after one "Post later." Are you scum again, Faraday?

Oh, and where did your LLD scum read come from?

I'm never scum, so no. Your post shows you're at least thinking about breaking the game - townish, there's then the fact you as scum would have to come up with some sort of legit sounding gamebreaking plan, I just don't see Minascum opening like that. I also tend to notice in your town games you like to talk/think about the mechanics to some degree, you did in metamafia and of gods and men too, I think as scum you'd probably be less interested in discussing that.

Actually, look, it turns out that I

didn't

come up with a legit-sounding gamebreaking plan. Clearly I either wasn't trying very hard, or decided to withhold it to harm the town.

And hey, I'm not interested in mechanics at all this game. I don't care whether you choose Air Base or Fallout Shelter or Counter. I've just announced that I'm going to lurk until DEFCON 3.

Looks like you should be losing your town read of me.

By the way, just curious, do you think I talked/thought about the mechanics in DEFCON 2.0 (in which I was scum)?

(Actually, okay, I lied. One point about mechanics:

someone

had better put Eavesdrop on the list, at the very least. Speaking as scum, it's extremely demoralizing not to be able to communicate and strategize with your team freely. If you're average at cryptography, just post the messages in the thread circa Day Three-ish.)

LLD scumread came from me reading her posts, where else would it come from?

*twitch*

I hate you.

Hey, Vi, I have two questions for you:

1) What do you think about Katsuki's plan to nuke anyone who snags Counterintelligence?
2) Have you ever seen ooba as scum? Do you have extensive experience with him as town? (I actually agree with Faraday that ooba tends to post set-up speculation over reads as town, although I've never seen him as scum before).

239 is a beautiful flower.

A beautiful ____ (scummy/not scummy/townish/stupid/unicorns) flower?

[Mina]

EBWOP: Omigod! Let me rephrase that:

Speaking as scum

from last game

, it's extremely demoralizing not to be able to communicate and strategize with your team freely. If you're average at cryptography, just post the messages in the thread circa Day Three-ish.)

That wasn't a confession.

[Mina]

Goddamn it, Faraday. You're almost too amusing for me to want to follow up on this.

But yes, I do find it off that you were quick to call me town for very weak reasons, so fresh after being fooled by me as scum (note to everyone else: I'm referring to an off-site game). Didn't you even say in the Queue thread that you can't read me? You said it was because I discussed set-up mechanics. Except I actually

didn't

discuss set-up mechanics at all; I just promised to get around to it and never did. And you've also seen me discuss the set-up as scum.

If anything, the only lesson you should have learned about my town meta from

MetaMafia

and

Of Gods and Men

is that I enjoy opening D1 with a stupid post that gets me wagoned early but not lynched.

By the way, has Equinox been following this thread?

Hey, Vi, I have two questions for you:

1) What do you think about Katsuki's plan to nuke anyone who snags Counterintelligence?
2) Have you ever seen ooba as scum? Do you have extensive experience with him as town? (I actually agree with Faraday that ooba tends to post set-up speculation over reads as town, although I've never seen him as scum before).

1. It's actually the best course of action. Town doesn't need it, and there's no sense in keeping it from scum because they'll get found out in due time if they take it. Understandably this will stop scum from taking Counterintelligence, but that just means we don't have to worry about it.

So just out of curiosity, what's the difference between town taking Counterintelligence in this game, and town taking Framer in PYP?

2. I've seen ooba as scum as many times as you have.
With that said, how would you have such a read on ooba's Town meta if you've never seen him as scum?

I have no clue if this is his behaviour as scum--which is why I asked if you'd maybe seen him as scum before. But when I see someone exhibit the same behaviour in every town game, I think it's reasonable to assume that behaviour isn't a scumtell. Why, do you find this out of character for him?

Of course, I will grudgingly accept Mina's explanation of why she isn't posting currently, but I'm going to want to see some serious posting from her when DEFCON 3 hits.

...um....

You know, the explanation I gave for why I wasn't posting currently was, "I'm a shady European/terrorist non-contributor." And I was more than a little facetious about planning to lurk until DEFCON 3.

In all honesty, I didn't post yesterday partly because I couldn't find a breaking strategy with no loopholes (Aircraft Carrier/the terrorist's free draft choice/Fail Safe/Submarine/double-kills on the Battleshipped player/Counterintelligence all seemed to get in the way), and partly just because I was lazy that day and not in the mood to get into a protracted argument over which minor power role was better. But, um, if you actually took that explanation seriously, you should be telling people to kill me with fire, not "grudgingly accepting" it.

[Mina]

Skimmed a few ISOs. DEFCON 4 sucks, because you can't wagon anyone, and learn more about people's set-up analyzing ability than their alignment. Ooh, great, Hinduragi thinks Counterintelligence is good, and has lots of thoughts about the theory behind claiming Fail Safe. That

totally

helps me figure out his alignment.

Originally, I'd written in this post that if I had a vote, it'd be on Vi now. But when I looked through her ISO so as to articulate a case, I couldn't find anything objectively scummy. She's questioning the right people and making the right points. It's mostly just bad vibes. I got the feeling that some of her set-up speculation and questions were insincere--maybe it was just her backtracking on ooba's twisting the math (which was all the weirder when she's the one who reviewed this set-up), or her odd stance on SpyreX.

Still waiting on SX's opinion of the flower post. I'd just found it naive, but typical dana-town, but his follow-up was really wishy-washy and terrible. (EBWOPreview: did you just accuse Vi of being a Caps-Lawker?)

Zhero (although his post urging people to confirm more quickly is a minor towntell), MoI (I know he's V/LA, but his opening post felt a bit forced), Regfan, Hinduragi, Toogeloo, AurorusVox, and ToastyToast have also done stuff I dislike. In fact, it's mostly the same kind of stuff: "Guys, look, I have thoughts about Air Base, too!" I should probably reread the thread in order to see whose set-up speculation looks the most as though it was trying to blend in with the crowd.

I can buy LLD misreading inHim's posts and confusing me with Gamma, so I think it's a null tell. She's the town side of null for her outspokenness, but I need more data.

My strongest town read is Katsuki (I think I've finally discovered the trick to reading him ). Weaker town reads are Screaming Death Clan, Pooky (basically, he's giving me Internet Stranger-flashbacks from last game), ooba, Magua (I get the IIoA accusations, but it feels like he's driving the conversation and genuinely trying to help the town)--inHimshallibe, Gamma, and gorilla are on the bubble of Townville. Swift Justice and SpyreX have a few townish posts, but I have niggling paranoia about them.

Magister Ludi and Hez are so wacky that I can't make heads or tails of their alignment. Ludi doesn't come across at all like the kind of "rash" person who would lose control and accidentally nuke a lurker in spite of himself.

That's it for now.

[Mina]

Goddamn it, Faraday. You're almost too amusing for me to want to follow up on this.

But yes, I do find it off that you were quick to call me town for very weak reasons, so fresh after being fooled by me as scum (note to everyone else: I'm referring to an off-site game). Didn't you even say in the Queue thread that you can't read me?

Weaker town reads are Screaming Death Clan, Pooky (basically, he's giving me Internet Stranger-flashbacks from last game), ooba, Magua (I get the IIoA accusations, but it feels like he's driving the conversation and genuinely trying to help the town)--inHimshallibe, Gamma, and gorilla are on the bubble of Townville.

Hey guess what, this is not town.
Especially with Pooky thrown in there.

I just felt the need to tell you that I hate you for writing this post. No, seriously. Reading it overcame me with the powerful urge to reach through my computer screen and smack you upside the head. Actual physical rage.

(Admittedly, my town read of Pooky was probably premature, because he's done zilch since his original carefree RP posts and his most recent post was crappy...but

still

.)

[Mina]

All right, V/LA until I can sneak away from Faraday at Goofbash (I had to sneak off to the bathroom just to write this post).

Briefly:

1) Vi still bothers me, but my case can be summarized as *twitch*. Hey, Vi, just curious, what are those other reasons you find MoI scum beyond his V/LA?

2) Agree with ToastyToast looking more town, and AV being scummy. Losing my town read of LLD based on how she disappeared when pressure headed her way, after making a big deal of how one day's absence is non-contribution. Still wouldn't vote her, though.

3) SDC, so wait, your brilliant game-breaking strategy is "Give me the Air Base"? Um...please explain to me how exactly that breaks the game. To be brutally honest, I don't think your plans are as good as you think they are.

4) I apologize for lashing out at SP (it was an overreaction), but am somewhat disconcerted that he didn't react to my overreaction.

5) Pooky, I don't care if you hate scum/town lists and think they're unAmerican Name three players you think are town, and three players you think have done something scummy.

[Mina]

Hey, Pooky? Three scum reads, three town reads?

1) Vi still bothers me, but my case can be summarized as *twitch*. Hey, Vi, just curious, what are those other reasons you find MoI scum beyond his V/LA?

I never said Moai was scum for V/LA. All of his posting up until then was weak.
I haven't actually paid attention to him since he came back. I need to re-organize my reads.

Um...maybe you completely missed what I was getting at. I'm on a phone and in proximity to Faraday, so I can't find the exact quote...but you'd said something along the lines of, "There are other reasons to find MoI scummy, but his inactivity is a null tell because

[Mina]

(Sorry, hit submit too early.)

Hey, Pooky? Three scum reads, three town reads?

1) Vi still bothers me, but my case can be summarized as *twitch*. Hey, Vi, just curious, what are those other reasons you find MoI scum beyond his V/LA?

I never said Moai was scum for V/LA. All of his posting up until then was weak.
I haven't actually paid attention to him since he came back. I need to re-organize my reads.

Um...maybe you completely missed what I was getting at. I'm on a phone and in proximity to Faraday, so I can't find the exact quote...but you'd said something along the lines of, "There are other reasons to find MoI scummy, but his inactivity is a null tell because of his V/LA." So I'm asking what those other reasons are.

In other news, Vi still hasn't posted something non-twitchworthy.

[Mina]

VOTE: AurorusVox

FOS: Anyone voting for someone other than AurorusVox

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

Hey, SpyreX? Gamma? Do you actually think Hez is

scum

, or are you just policy-wagoning him?

Toogeloo, why didn't you wait until D3 to claim Counterintelligence? You might have been able to eat a NK before then. That said, Toog's claim looks townish, both because the execution is townish, and because it's too bold a move for scum after Katsuki's auto-nuke dictate--particularly since Eavesdrop could out them if it doesn't get results one night.

[Mina]

So LLD, I'd be interested in a reaction to my questions to you (re: your "grudgingly accepting my excuse") on Saturday.

Yeah, upon rereading LLD's ISO, I'm moving her from the town to the scum column.

Still on the fence re: Swift. His frustration sounds pretty townish at times. But Swift Justice's reaction to LLD reminds me of his reaction to Plum in MetaMafia. ("Yes, LLD is scum. Why? Because of her posts, lol.") Yes, you've made your point; you're Faraday, and you don't like explaining your reads. How

clever

. But clearly you aren't doing it to fish for reactions, since you didn't follow up on your LLD read (admittedly, I don't think Faraday has been reading the thread since coming to Canada).

Equinox, can you summarize/paraphrase your AIM conversation with Faraday in which he asked you to post here, and you attacked ToastyToast with incorrect information?

Mina, what is 421 supposed to be?

It's...probably the kind of thing that should have stayed in my mind and not made it to the post window.

In penance for indulging myself, I'm going to be good and not

make a snarky response to

answer Red's points on me unless he asks for a defence.

But if you're going to confidently state that "'this' is not town," then you should probably have a better justification than "You questioned someone with whom you have extensive meta experience on a premature town read--which is something you have seen him do multiple times as scum--and for giving an unsatisfactory explanation, knowing that said player believes you are susceptible to buddying (even though I am not, dammit!). But YOU HAVE TOWN READS. OMG I FOUND A CONTRADICTION AREN'T I AN AWESOME SCUMHUNTER."

Actually, SocioPath, while I'm at it, what exactly was the point of your post on Regfan? Quoting a list of reads and saying it's a scum claim sounds like he did something really, really bad. I want to know if it's something as lame as your catch on me, so I can ignore it, rather than having that small seed of doubt planted in me by hearing there's

something

scummy about it, but it's beneath you to admit what it is.

And Vi, can you please give one genuine emotional reaction to anything? It really is amazing. You keep being all protown and asking questions and giving reads...but you just look so damn insincere doing it. It throws me off.

@Mina:

How likely did you think it was that you could come up with a breaking plan for the powers? You had experience with DEFCON 2, but the tone I'm getting from your posts in #241 and #253 is that you put some significant time into it. True/false?

I replaced into DEFCON 2.0 on Day Three as Chinese scum, and then worked out almost immediately that the game was mathematically unwinnable for me. It was ridiculous. Scum need more mislynch options than there are players with nukes in the game--and the fact that the dayvigs are

public

means they can't just nuke anyone obvtown. Town auto-wins the moment they have one confirmed townie and more armed nukes than living players. This set-up has a few changes for the better, but I honestly think that Silos should have been limited to once per game rather than once per day.

I don't want to make it sound like I spent hours and hours of effort into a master plan, or calculated lots of of probabilities. On Thursday and Friday, I basically started typing up posts like, "Omigod! How about we elect one person to put Espionage as his top choice...no...three people...but the scum can kill him, so the Battleship can protect him...so two or three people need to put Battleship as their first choice...but wait, what if scum get Aircraft Carrier? Or Counterintelligence? Or what if both teams target the Espionage and nullify the Battleship? Or if the Battleship is scum and tries to pass it off as that? But anyway, the Espionage investigates the same player as non-European or non-terrorist, and then we nuke the Espionage to show that he's town...and everyone except for the confirmed player nukes each other in a circle...except the terrorist can just snag submarine and kill the confirmed townie....fuck."

In the end, I just gave up, because I figured just letting everyone draft whatever they want would probably result in a natural spread of roles like last game. But I think it's extremely likely that by Day Four or so, the game will be breakable.

[Mina]

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

That frownie face is actually making me feel guilty.

I feel like I actually have to waste time on a confirmation biasy case with quotes, and second-guess myself as to whether individual posts sound townish and I'm just imagining the whole "set-up speculation for the sake of talking, fake scumhunting, and useless questions" vibe, rather than coasting on how everyone thinks you're obvscum. Because otherwise, you'll be frowning at me.

No wonder I'm manipulated so easily.

[Mina]

Magua, not to start an incestuous buddying circle or anything, but to return the favour, if I had to choose a sole survivor at this point, you'd probably be it.

It is incredible how easy he is to read.

But your read is incredibly wrong

That frownie face is actually making me feel guilty.

I feel like I actually have to waste time on a confirmation biasy case with quotes, and second-guess myself as to whether individual posts sound townish and I'm just imagining the whole "set-up speculation for the sake of talking, fake scumhunting, and useless questions" vibe, rather than coasting on how everyone thinks you're obvscum. Because otherwise, you'll be frowning at me.

No wonder I'm manipulated so easily.

I'm pretty sure scum could just shut up and fly under the radar if they wanted. There's no incentive to talk for the sake of it.
Why is your promised-but-failed attempt at setup breaking any better than my attempt at neutering the usefulness of Sub?

I questioned SJ because they were being (to use SDC's fave word) cheeky. All this "Oh I'm being sarcastic about you Mina" bullshit is cheeky because it's noise that doesn't stick to them. Their flipflopping between "Don't make my points look less than serious!" --> "It was a fucking joke" makes it impossible to pin them on anything they said about you there.

And questioning Hez? Those were not pointless questions.

They weren't baiting either. Hez: You did something scummy. I responded to it. You reacted scummily to that too, and what I did was show you that you were inconsistently applying this supposed "vengeance." Which I'm pretty sure you realised when you admitted you were being illogical. The way you acted and the way you professed to act were completely out of sync, and our back and forth illustrated that perfectly.

[/quote]
Um...

Exactly whom are you defending yourself from? The town as a whole? I didn't even mention any of those points. For so early in the day, isn't this is a bit excessive?

Actually, now that you bring it up, I hated the sub thing, too. It's not an attempt at neuter the usefulness of Sub, because your plan was actually harmful to the town. (I mean...saying town shouldn't get the sub just so we know whether or not the submarine is definitely in scum hands? Having the sub and USING IT TO SHOOT OBVTOWN WHILE NOT CLAIMING IT is

more

of a scum claim.) It's almost so bad that it might be a towntell that you were

brave

enough to say it, but I hate how you backtracked the moment you got heat for it and said, "yeah, I wasn't expecting anyone to take me seriously, because it's just a pipe dream, so go for that submarine, town!"). But I didn't even

mention

it in that post. So why are you trying to tie it to me not breaking the set-up?

For the record, whatever you think of SJ, I can state with 100% certainty that he was not in the slightest attempting to be taken seriously with his "case" on me, if you know anything about Faraday's sense of humour. The "why aren't you taking me seriously" line was also dripping with scorn.

(The one scummy thing I find about that interaction was Equinox's rush to yell at Toasty at Faraday's request...but then proceeding to completely defend the wrong point and say that Faraday's gambit was totally sincere. Faraday's recruiting her is a slight town tell (although he could have just been annoyed independent of alignment), but then she was willing to stretch the truth and defend Faraday's motives when she apparently wasn't reading carefully enough to realize it was a joke? That's why I want her take on it.)

And no incentive for scum to talk? Are you kidding me? Try not posting anything all game and see how long you live in DEFCON 1. That's exactly what scum try to do all the time: look like they're helping the town just to get their approval. Fake contribution is the rare scumtell that actually

works

.

[Mina]

On V/LA because of Goofbash. I'll try to find time to write an actual post if I can get away from the crowd today, because I have lots to say in response to Vi and AV.

[Mina]

I'm back. Forty-six pages. I think I want to cry right now.

Well, the post I'd WANTED to make about a week ago (before the threadlock and my Goofbash-induced seclusion) involved a mini-case and vote on Vi, as well as a response to AV's questions. (AV would have been MUCH better off trying to manipulate me with more smileys than getting extremely overdefensive, but threw me off with a couple of townish-sounding posts later on. I'd have still voted him over RedCoyote, though.)

I think

Internet Stranger

of all people found a legitimate scumtell from Vi early on. Her harping on about how Zhero replaced out because he was clearly scum afraid of nukes looked like scum latching onto an easy surface tell. It's not even that she found his replacing out scummy; it's that she based her predominate scum read of the game on it, and blew it out of proportion. Yeah, Zhero's two posts were bad. But his replacement was clearly a freakout under pressure because a couple of people had voiced mild suspicion of him? And clearly it's because he was SO terrified of being nuked...in

pregame

, weeks before DEFCON 3 would start?

I also think her scum reads on me and MoI were artificial and based on her trying too hard to stick to her reads from pregame. If anyone wants me to elaborate, I'll give the specific quotes in which I think she's talking out of her ass. Probably no one remembers what I'm talking about anymore.

But I don't know, maybe Vi has done something extremely townish in the past thirty pages I haven't even read. My case might be obsolete by now.

Any questions for me before I catch up?

[Mina]

I was hoping I'd be nightkilled based on everyone calling me obvtown despite my not having done anything all game, just so I wouldn't have to write a tedious catch-up post, weigh in on sixty pages' worth of material, and figure out who's scum. To be honest, I was kind of hoping that I could wait until half the players in the game had flipped to catch up, simply because I'm afraid I'll just embarrass myself if I give reads before the flips. Leaving aside Katsuki, I remember thinking Gamma looked town, for example, but apparently he's become obvscum for stuff that happened during my V/LA.

(preview-edit:

Interesting

. )

Hey, Hinduragi and LLD, just curious about something. Can I see both of your draft lists? I'll explain why when you answer.

AGM: I have two questions:

1) Does the terrorist's draft choice remove the option from the pool? I mean...somehow, I doubt Gamma would really be THAT dumb, but I'd understood it to mean that say, there couldn't be

two

submarines if the terrorist grabbed one.

2) If someone attempted to perform a night action (even a non-investigative one) but was roleblocked, would you inform them of this fact?

Unfortunately, Swift Justice is starting to look obviously town. Vi, in case you aren't scum and are just having an off game, can you recall your nuke, please? Your most recent opinion on SJ seemed to be that they were null. Didn't you say you thought MoI was scum? Exactly what made you decide that SJ was worth nuking over the others? Consider you're dying and all, you know, you should probably give us your last words and reads if you're town.

And lastly, either I do not have a nuke, or I'm waiting until much later in the day to use it.

(First question - No. Second question - Not explicitly; however, players are told whether their abilities successfully activate or not. There are multiple reasons why an ability may fail to activate - roleblock is one of them. --AGM)

[Mina]

EDIT: Never mind, AGM just answered the first question for me. Obviously, Gamma is telling the truth about being an Aircraft Carrier, at least.

[Mina]

Goddamn it. I was hoping one of you would forget that gorilla had put Eavesdrop at number two and claim it was your first choice. Or possibly omit it from your list even though you love codebreaking.

(By the way, Eavesdrop was actually MY number two as well, even though I suck at cryptography. It seems to have been a popular second choice. )

Next question. Hinduragi, why did you put Battleship ahead of Eavesdrop? If you really thought your best bet was taking Eavesdrop, why did you choose Battleship first?

(By the way, ooba, would it have been THAT hard to make at least one post yesterday like "I reread Playername overnight, and I'm feeling better about him. If he's scum, then he's probably the terrorist and not European for this bullshit reasons" rather than being all, "NO TALK, SPEEDLYNCH AV"?)

[Mina]

Good to know I didn't miss anything productive. <_<

Hey, Vi? It's not too late for Internet Stranger to recall his nuke, you know. You know what would buy you lots of town cred and probably make IS second-guess himself? Recalling your nuke on Swift Justice. Sure, people might get paranoid about them later on and waste a nuke on them, anyway (since they're a null-to-scum read of pretty much everyone), but at this point, you're better off doing something bold like that to save your skin.

And Equinox, what's the point of voting anyone in a game with nukes? (Also, players like SDC and MoI's alignments will also be affected by SP's flip.)

Hey, MoI, do you actually believe Magua is scum if Sociopath is also scum? Because your promise to nuke Magua seems to be pretty much going, "You would be wrong, so neener neener."

(I can never read Sociopath, so I'll prepare to have egg on my face if he flips scum, but let's just ignore that he can only be scum IF Katsuki roleblocked him and not Gammagooey. I'm apparently alone in finding his reaction to being nuked feels kind of townish--sure, he's become much more talkative, but that's something town as well as scum might do. So SDC and MoI acting as though every single throwaway comment he made is so obviously scum-Sociopath is throwing me off. That said, SDC wins massive town points for forcing LLD to abort her nuke on an obvtown player under penalty of radioactive death.)

(p-edit: STOP SPAMMING THE THREAD WITH YOUTUBE LINKS THAT KEEP MY POST FROM GOING THROUGH!)

[Mina]

lol at the thought of RoWei recalling their nuke.

Yeah, because judging from how they've played this game, they aren't good enough to play optimally. Particularly since they nuked SJ, who no one even thought was obvtown and was going to eat someone else's nuke eventually.

Recalling would be the optimal play as either town

or

scum, but it looks as though Wei has checked out of the game.

Wei, do you still believe that Swift Justice is scum?

I don't think Wei is that obvious scum. There's a chance they're still town. They just have to prove it to us.

[Mina]

GUYS, STOP RUINING IT, DAMMIT!

NO. VI HASN'T CLAIMED SCUM. NOT AT ALL. SHE CAN STILL REDEEM HERSELF...BY...

*curls up and starts sobbing*

[Mina]

Wow. I feel so popular. <_<

(Also, STOP NINJA-ING ME, PEOPLE.)

Faraday, assuming I have a nuke, then as tempting as it would be for me to put my nuke in defensive mode (because if there are two things that I hate, it's being lynched/vigged as town for moronic reasons, and being forced to make a crucial decision like that), 1) we need as many nukes as possible active on D4, and 2) there are enough people who claim to have scum reads on me that they'd throw a fit if I did that.

Hmm. I'm starting to lean toward a massclaim, although people on the death list should go first. I'd actually like Hez and ML to fullclaim their entire draft lists.

I could actually record myself saying, "I swear that I'm town" just to make myself 100% confirmed (although I hate the sound of my own voice), but that feels a bit cheap. AGM, is that allowed according to the rules?

-------------------------------

...SO. REGFAN.

I'm

positive

that Swift Justice would recall their nuke on you if you recalled your nuke on Magua.

(But seriously, there's an actual chance that you're just town playing abysmally, unlike Revenge of the Wei. Do you want me to write a mini-case showing why Magua is town and you should recall your nuke? Nice job wasting one of our last nukes, all because you wasted it on obvtown instead of someone in the actual suspect pool.)

-----------

When I finish rereading everyone, I'll probably put together a more organized post with reads (particularly on the four in Magua's death list). I agree with the list to some extent. That said, I think Fate's insistence on one-upping Sociopath is fucking petty and immature, but looks genuine. He's right that I can't read him for shit, though.

Looking at the vote counts, and skimming Vi's and Gamma's ISOs, my most solid conclusion is that Internet Stranger is not scum based on both Vi's and Gamma's interactions with him. (And for the record, thanks, guys, for making D1 and D2 completely useless by doing nothing but tunneling on AV and RC.) I doubt BOTH scum would bus him from the get-go. I'll reread him just to put to rest paranoid tinfoil hat theories, though.

It's kind of annoying, because I was starting to find Hez scummy again...but then I noticed Gamma pushed on him early. GAH. OPTIMAL PLAY IN THIS SET-UP IS FOR ONE SCUM TO BUS SO AS TO LOOK CONFIRMED. GODDAMN WIFOM.

SDC: Full-claim your draft list, please. Something doesn't add up.

(Also, WTF is with all the "I'm never obvtown when I'm scum" bullshit? What about MoCo and Aggressive Mind Games Mafia? And I've heard you go on about how you're excellent as scum.)

[Mina]

...unfortunately, that was pretty much a dead-end. Yeah, I was just confused how you ended up with Air Base when Sub was your first choice.

So, um, why exactly did you put Air Base second if you were just trying to WIFOM everyone? I mean, you should have guessed almost everyone in the game would've put Sub as their first choice, so you had little chance of getting it. You were the one saying pretending to be the Air Base was just a gambit, after all.

Magua, now's your chance to claim if you actually DID put Air Base at number one, and weren't just trolling Fate with your threat to do so.

As much as the offer to drink vodka with Faraday tempts me, I need all my faculties to

log onto AIM and blackmail him with embarrassing quotes the next day

catch up with Mafia games. Besides, I have nothing to mix it with.

[Mina]

I agree that anyone with a nuke must fire it today.

All right. Magister Ludi? HezLucky?

At least one of me/ToastyToast obviously has a nuke by PoE.

I am announcing my intent to nuke one of you two if I have a nuke.

I want Toasty to agree to the same, if he is the one with the nuke.

Do you have any reason why the two of us should hypothetically withhold?

[Mina]

for now I will stick to just allowing myself to be read by everyone else, and nailing that one scum no one else sees.

My read on you is leaning scum at this point. Clearly, you're failing at your job.

[Mina]

Hmm. I'm ISO-ing inHim, and am torn right now. Don't like all the one-liners and the whole "I'm willing to put anyone at L-1/nuke according to your choice" thing. On the other hand, a few of the observations he's making are pretty good.

Fate, please explain why you're so adamant inHim shouldn't be nuked.

This thread needs more ML and Hez. I think there's a very high chance ONE of them is scum based on their play today as well as [REDACTED], although I keep getting paranoid that they and Regfan are doing a MetaMafia "play your role incompetently, let your ego overcome you, and botch the chances of a town that had the game in hand" thing. Try to sway me or Toasty from nuking one of you two.

Could be useful in determining what to do with gorilla, which I think solidified himself as a townlock.

Humor me and assume with me that Regfan is scum. That leaves two scum remaining. Who do you think they are?

They exist outside of

Myself
IS
gorilla
Mina
Hinduragi
Pooky

What happened to this post:

Well, I still hold reservation you could be American and this is a reckless MoI gambit. The reversal of fate would be humorous, though.

I agree with you about Mina, by the by, so if you flip town I might just crate her.

Also, when you said you agreed with SP about me, was it the specific point he made on me: that it's clearly not town to blow up at someone and later wonder why he didn't react to my temper tantrum?

(I don't think I understand the Gamma clearing me thing.)

[Mina]

Meh, that's the kind of subtle bad comment one scumbuddy might say about.

Hey, LLD.

Before X's were removed is:

ifyoubusmeyouloseonefrexenukeionlyneedtobuyonemoredayx

I removed X's because they are generally used as place holders in the Playfair system.

While I was guess and checking, I was building my own potential 5 by 5 square of letters, and everything fell into place.

I'm not going to type all 10 pages of hand written letter frequency work for you Dx. Please don't make me do that ;_;

Hey, do you have the 10 pages of hand-written letter frequency work?

If you don't want to type them out...then scan every page. Upload them to tinypic or something and link us to them. I am deadly serious.

Out of curiosity, where did you learn so much about cryptography?

[Mina]

EBWOP: aah, hit "submit" too early. I was just saying that I wouldn't clear

myself

for that, because scumbuddies toss light suspicion at each other all the time, and he upgraded it to a slight town read almost immediately. But I'm town, anyway, so it's all good.

[Mina]

I think it's perfectly legitimate to suggest an alternative means for someone to show her work IF she bases conclusions on that hypothetical analysis and expects us to trust them. Apparently, she'd have been perfectly willing to show her work were it not for the logistics of typing it. So If she doesn't want to type it up, then why not scan it to prove that those "ten pages" aren't just bullshit she used to make her sound more impressive?

That said, AGM can step in if he thinks it's out of line. But I don't think it's any worse than asking her to type it up.

And you know something about cryptography, so you could probably evaluate if her guesswork looks like she's genuinely trying to crack it or just random letters. I'd imagine it would be hard for scum to motivate themselves to fake-crack their own code AND make it the correct number of pages.

inHim, can I get an answer to my question about Sociopath's read on me?

Okay, now I'm going to stop spamming this game.

[Mina]

I guess Hindu's reason is a get out of posting free card about why Inhim is oBVTOWN?

No it isn't. Because now I need to know why

you

thought obvtown, not to evaluate inHim, but to evaluate

you

. The more plausible your reason, the less likely you are to eat a nuke or lynch.

[Mina]

Hinduragi, can you unvote? Actually, can as many people as possible unvote, what with the reduced lynch threshhold after the nukes resolve?

If Regfan is scum, he can quickhammer now.

[Mina]

...okay.

That was exactly why I asked you that question.

Toasty, answer this right now: Are you Fighters, yes or no?

Hez, do you have town reads on both me and Toasty?

[Mina]

AHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

HezLucky.

HezLucky

.

I actually wasn't serious at all about nuking you. I only asked you that question because I wanted to see how you'd react.

Because by pure process of elimination, HezLucky is the Fail Safe. And decided

not

to claim Fail Safe even when both me and Toasty threatened him with a nuke.

You are busted.

[Mina]

Oh my God.

I'm trying to answer your questions (can you wait five minutes? I'm going to answer them, but I wanted to point out the slip first) or defend myself from Ludi's horrific "one scum is always 100% on every list" confirmation bias case, but I'm getting too angry with you all.

I don't care if you're all pissy that people think I'm town, Internet Stranger, and want to give them the finger by making a moronic nuke. It should be pretty obvious by now that I'm town. And yes, I was completely useless during the week and a half when I was V/LA at Goofbash and not posting in

any

of my games, but that's a complete null tell. Now I'm back.

Also, I don't want inHim in the final three.

I JUST CAUGHT HEZLUCKY TRYING TO SET OFF HIS FAILSAFE AND GET ONE OF ME/TOASTY KILLED.

HAS NO ONE NOTICED IT?

Ludi, it should have been obvious that my intent from the very beginning was to see how Hez would react. (And I could have easily nuked dana/LLD/SDC were I afraid of a potential Fail Safe.) Why do you think I said I was nuking

one of you and HezLucky

, and asked Toasty to confirm this?

All right. Let me explain what I was trying to pull off since yesterday.

I realized that there were three unclaimed roles left in the game (obviously, I'm a silo):
Fighters, Fallout Shelter, and Fail Safe. FTR, Fighter was on my list, and Fallout Shelter on Hinduragi's and LLD's, so I knew at least two of those roles were in the game.

But Ludi and HezLucky were on the death list, and we were widely discussing nuking them. Why didn't they claim their roles if they were in danger of death?

So I knew that whichever of ML and Hez had Fail Safe/Fallout Shelter was probably scum. (If Toasty had, say, Fail Safe, it made sense for him as town not to claim it, because he was unlikely to be nuked except by scum in retaliation. But why not Ludi or Hez?)

I decided to put them on the spot by saying that me and Toasty were 100% going to nuke them, so they should reveal if they had any useful information. I put Toasty in because Ludi claimed to have a scum read on me.

See, if Hez were a town Fail Safe, he probably would have gone, "Oh, by the way, if you nuke me, you kind of instantly die, so be careful." But since he wasn't making it to endgame anyway, I think he was hoping to take out one of me/Toasty.

p-edit: see, I'm waiting for LLD to show her work for the code thing before I decide to nuke her.

[Mina]

AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL

Mina nuke SDC.

Toasty hush. Mina will be dead before that time, IS is clipping her wings.

Hey, aren't you the one who suddenly decided you thought I was town again? Are you trying to encourage IS to nuke me?

Either is fine. You have sealed your death if Fate is European.

...Wait. Regardless of Fate's alignment, you actually think Hinduragi has a chance of being scum at this point? Like, even the tiniest chance?

See, this is really annoying.

Right now, I think HezLucky is more likely to be scum than Ludi is. (Ludi might just be a crazy paranoid innocent.) There was actually a (bullshit) explanation he could have given for not claiming, but his silence is very telling.

BUT if we don't lynch Magister Ludi today, he's guaranteed to be in the final three. Basically, we have to ensure that at least two townies will be alive to lynch him.

I don't suppose there's anyone willing to suicide on Hez tomorrow, is there. <_<

[Mina]

GODDAMN IT, LUDI. WAIT FIVE MINUTES FOR ME TO ANSWER WHAT MY READ ON DANA IS.

YES. I'M WASTING TIME TELLING YOU TO STOP ASKING ME THAT QUESTION BEFORE I ANSWER YOUR QUESTION.

BECAUSE YOU DID NOT HAVE TO POST THE SAME QUESTION FIVE TIMES IN FIFTEEN MINUTES. I SAW IT. I ALREADY TOLD YOU I WAS GOING TO ANSWER IT. HOLD YOUR HORSES.

Hinduragi, what about the scum kill that night? Does it resolve at the same time as the nuke? Because if it does, then doesn't that mean everyone dies and Katsuki wins?

[Mina]

Don't have time to write a big post right now...but fuck.

Regfan? Regfan? Where are you?

You're twenty minutes away from being too late to recall your nuke.

I can actually buy that he'd do this as town, because he also made a moronic antitown nuke of Equinox on N1 of MetaMafia "just so I could use my power." So I'm worried.

[Mina]

AGM: requesting a prod on Regfan

[Mina]

I tried to write a post all of yesterday.

Every time, I hit "Quote" on the first post that is illogical or unfair or full of empty rhetoric. I start rebutting it.

And then it ends up devolving into random capslock digressions calling Insert Player a fucking arrogant, odious moron who is terrible at Mafia and will lose the game for the town.

I really have nothing nice to say about certain people in this game. I did not sign up for this game because I thought it was totally awesome to nuke a random player at the drop of a hat. Remember how I said on Day One how this game is ridiculously lopsided in favour of town...as long as

town aren't idiots

and plan their nukes out strategically?

Yeah.

I feel as though I'm being tunnelled on for bullshit reasons and I can't tell who's opportunistic scum, who's paranoid town, and who's just a braindead useless idiot who's jealous that people think I look more town than they do.

But I'll just try to answer the points people are asking for a defence on as calmly as possible.
==========================================
1) I will explain YET AGAIN for Pooky what I was trying to do with Hez.

In all honesty, when I made the ultimatum toward Hez/ML, I didn't even want to nuke them that badly. But I'd worked out by PoE that at least one of them was Fallout Shelter/Fail Safe...and it was

very

suspicious that neither of them had claimed. (And again, obviously, I knew that Hez might be the Fail Safe beforehand. If my only concern was not nuking the Fail Safe, I could have easily just nuked a claimed silo instead.)

So I decided to try and trap them.

What I thought is that if they were town, they would claim under threat of nuke. Because they wouldn't want to accidentally kill someone they thought was town (or waste a nuke that could be used to narrow the suspect pool, if they were Fail Safe).

Meanwhile, scum, knowing they were a goner anyway, would have an incentive to keep their mouth shut. Remember, they were on the death list, and they were guaranteed not to survive until endgame.

So I

deliberately

framed my question in such a way as to make them think one of me and Toasty was about to waste a nuke on them. Why? Because I wanted to see if, when faced with inevitable death (knowing they had no chance of weaseling out of a nuke), they'd claim or try to take me down with them.

What happened? Hez said, "Go ahead and nuke me."

Unfortunately, it's not 100% conclusive, because Hez magically pulled a scum read out of his ass on me, and then added, "Oh, yeah, I know what you're saying, nudge-nudge, wink-wink, don't nuke me." But this was AFTER I already hinted at knowing he was the Fail Safe. Hey, Hez, why didn't you claim

before

my hint (in which I asked you pointblank for a reason I shouldn't nuke you)?

And...um...are you fucking kidding me about the whole "Town would instantly suicide the moment he thought he caught scum?" That's a terrible move, and I don't believe for a second you'd have done it if you were suspicious of Hez. I'm not going to nuke a Fail Safe when we can just lynch him or have someone scummy nuke him. It's not like I

need

to remove myself from the suspect pool.

Honestly, I'm no longer 100% sure that Hez is scum. His flip-flop from finding me super-obvtown for rather superficial tells to "She's scum because she suspects me!" looks really bad, and his list of reads is terrible. But his rage looks genuine, and kind of in character for someone who'd choose Fail Safe just to screw over people who suspect him.

If you think it through, Pooky, my plan actually makes zero sense whatsoever for scum to do. Actually, I've done at least three or four things this game that make zero sense whatsoever for scum to do, but that's another story.

2) I've never once said that "I'm Queen Obvtown." Stop projecting. Oh, and did your going from "Mina, join my hot superhero group" to "Nuke the obvious European scumbag" have anything to do with Internet Stranger turning on me?

3) Magister Ludi, if anything, Vi targeting Swift Justice instead of someone "obvtown" is a point in my favour, because Swift Justice were by

far

my biggest supporters in the game. I'd have desperately wanted them alive right now, and I'm pretty sure they'd be throwing a fit at you, IS, Hez, and Pooky if they were. (I'd also like to note that my behaviour toward Vi--trying to manipulate her into thinking she had a chance of swaying IS if she recalled her nuke, when it was blindingly obvious he wouldn't--pretty much clears me of being her scumbuddy. I could have just posted "R E C A L L I W A N T S J A L I V E" in the scum QT as separate posts if I thought it was in the Europeans' best interests.)

The question is why didn't Vi target me, Magua, Toogeloo, Hinduragi,

Internet Stranger

(who should have been confirmed by her flip and who she'd been calling scum all game), etc., not just me. She was probably going for a strong active leader with accurate reads, and also a target who wouldn't be a

total

scum claim. I wasn't active at that point in time, so not the biggest threat.

4) I see dana as someone who has to be policy-nuked before the end of the game. Do I think he's scum? In all honesty, I'm not sure, because dana is always extremely useless. He's done nothing all game (even though he hasn't actually started his V/LA), and has almost no opinions. I kind of see where people are going with calling his slip townish, but it doesn't clear him, because he was getting heat for his godawful Hinduragi nuke, anyway. I'm considering him as a nuke option, but it feels like a cop-out.

5) I haven't nuked partly because I'm waiting on flips from Regfan and Magua, and partly because

I haven't decided who to nuke

. Go away. I haven't finished rereading. I'll decide when I'm ready.

I didn't even

want

a nuke this game. (Damn you, ooba, for stealing Espionage from me and then getting yourself blown up. I was going to target Vi on N1, too.) And I don't care if someone is all, "Omigod, clearly you aren't a patriotic American because REAL Americans are shitty at Mafia and shoot anyone the moment they get a chance to!" Yes, clearly random.org is FAR more likely to assign scum PMs to people who are indecisive because it knows the flavour of the game.

(Internet Stranger, enlighten me. How exactly is Regfan connected to me? Because you pulled a scum read on me out of your ass?)

Also, to be honest, my reads are completely screwed up right now. I was leaning toward an inHim nuke on Thursday (IIRC), but Hinduragi is insisting he's obviously town. Fate oscillates between saying things that look genuine and looking like scum trying to manipulate people. LLD has been pretty useless and scummy (and she still hasn't done anything to prove she really tried to solve the codes), but Gamma's interaction with her doesn't look much like scum on scum, and her promise to nuke Hez tomorrow is making me waver.

[Mina]

Magua (American, Radar) was nuked Day 3.

At least I killed a troll.

At least we no longer have to wait for AGM to post the scene that was due hours ago, because you've just confirmed your alignment.

[Mina]

Okay, that's it.

I am hereby making a solemn vow not to defend myself from anyone until

after

my nuke is fired. After then, I'll probably throw another temper tantrum about how I hate everyone who suspects me. But the time before then will be devoted to nothing but whom

I

think is town or scum. Now please shut up until then.

I am also making a solemn vow to take as long as I want to fire my nuke, even if it makes people with short attention spans miserable. I really want to hit scum today.

Seriously, this is just making my decision harder, because I have to try to keep my personal feelings out of it.

I'm obviously not going to automatically nuke whoever has the most "votes", but I have no problem with suggestions. If someone has a great case on why I should or shouldn't nuke a particular player, I'm all ears.

My problem is that for a game in which 2/13 players are scum, I feel as though I have more suspects than town reads.

Hinduragi
Toogeloo

Internet Stranger
gorilla

Pooky
------------------
^above this line are people I would rather see alive, although Pooky is on the fence.

ToastyToast
Magister Ludi
HezLucky
SDC
danakillsu
inHimshallibe
LLD

Leaning toward an LLD nuke right now, but I want to think it over some more. Way too many people in the bottom group--which is the problem.

[Mina]

Sorry, Hindu, I didn't realize the deadline was that close. I'll fire my nuke today, in that case.

Despite her protests, I still say that Mina is still stalling. I love the way shes doing the heavy frow of concentration: "'gotta hit scum today, yes scum, scum are bad" as if she was RainWoman. Wouldnt surprise me if she was rocking back and forth.

Doesnt that look like a blatant act to anyone? Clearly Mina painted herself into a corner by waiting too long. She didnt want to end up being obvScum like Regfan and nuking a popular townie. So now she has to wait and wait and wait until the town draws itself into a ferver about wanting someone dead. I see our old buddy Fate trying to incite a riot over there and Hinduragi is acting like an out of control rabid badger, ready to gnaw at anything that moves.

So which is it Mina, are you waiting for your scumbuddy to give you and excuse or are you hoping that they can lurk themselves back into obscurity?

All this "I dont want to miss a scum" is inherent bullshit. You said it yourself, we are at 2/11, its not like this is a Nuke or Lose scenario. So why play this little game of the worried princess that is making a hard decision for her kingdom? The only reason that you would be concerned over misshooting your nuke if is your odds are actually 11/2. You have to play PERFECT from here on out to survive. (Here is a hint: You wont survive anyways. Pooky or I are going to nuke you no matter what you do.)

So stop pretending like your answering a million dollar question and let the nuke fly already. We still have to go over this drama when it comes time to lynch someone too. We are ALL WAITING on YOU, princess, so whats it going to be?

Fuck off.

No, seriously, fuck off.

Being horribly wrong about one read in which you're extremely confident and obnoxious about it is forgivable, but more than that, you're being a douchebag.

I told you, leave me the fuck alone until I actually fire my nuke. Then you can post "MINA IS SCUM HEY LET'S WASTE TWO NUKES ON HER TO KILL HER I'M GOING TO DROWN OUT EVERYTHING SHE SAYS WITH 'MINA IS SCUM HEY LOOK AT ALL THESE COLOURFUL WAYS I HAVE OF SAYING 'EUROPEAN' I'M GOING TO IGNORE ANYTHING IN HER FAVOUR AND SPIN EVERYTHING SHE SAYS TO MEAN MINA IS SCUM" as much as you want. Now you're pissing me off too much to concentrate. If you've already convinced yourself I'm scum and aren't going to change your mind about it no matter what, why are you even wasting your breath? Shut the fuck up about it and wait until tomorrow to nuke me.

(Actually, if I'm scum, I'm not in the slightest bit of danger at all. I just have to nightkill you tonight and then rely on Hinduragi's Battleship to protect me from Pooky. Also, I can just fake suspicion on Pooky for flipping on me and then nuke him today because he can't retaliate. Nice going, dumbass.)

[Mina]

But I have to be contrary. You're trying so hard to wheedle me into nuking LLD by emotionally appealing to what you think my weak spots are that I should nuke you just to prove I'm above manipulation.

Also, not everything revolves around you, Fate.

Hey, LLD? Did you get back from your vacation? I'm REALLY interested in those pages of cryptography you claimed to have done. At this point, presenting your work within the next ten-fifteen minutes (and getting Hinduragi to verify that it's not random letters) is your only hope of saving yourself.

Hmm. How sure are you in LLD being scum, Fate? As sure as you were that

Sociopath

was scum? What makes you much more confident in her alignment?

(...seriously, maybe I am just stalling, because I probably am going to nuke LLD today. Hang on, let me ISO her. This is all the fault of people who prioritized troops above nukes and saddled me with a silo.)

[Mina]

How do you propose I upload them Mina? Through magic?

I'm not a rich person who has their own scanner.

That's not what you said before:

Also, I'm not going to be able to show my work. I'm on vacation, so no access to scanner.

That implied the only reason you couldn't upload them was because you didn't have access to a scanner.

There's none nearby? Do you have access to a university computer lab? You were able to use the cryptography program there, right?

Oh, and by the way, you think inHimshallibe is a deluded townie?

I may just be considering a nuke on him, because I find his observations have been fluffy this game.

Help me out, LLD. Why should I nuke you and not inHim?

[Mina]

You're not allowed to scan anything for personal use at the computer lab? I know when I was in school, the lab computers were pretty much open for anything. You can't just pass it off as "I'm scanning something for this math/cryptography class"?

You have a cryptography program on your home computer? I'm just curious, what for? Do you take any cryptography classes? Did your friend lend

If you're not willing to go to the university to use their scanner, why don't you just type up the first page for us?

Would also be interested in seeing your (possibly) last reads. Which reads of mine do you think aren't bad?

(Also, be thankful I didn't give you a chance to white-knight me, Fate, because I'll let you in a terrible secret. I'm really a man!)

[Mina]

Hey, I just realized that I should take advantage of the fact that I have a nuke to hold it over people's heads and put the fear of the devil in them.

LLD, can you please explain for me why you find inHim obvious town?

I have "reasonable doubt" over you being scum, but I have reasonable doubt over everyone else, as well. Who do you think I should nuke instead of you?

And I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm asking for cryptography notes because that's basically your one last-ditch chance to try to prove that you're town and allow me to eliminate you from the suspect pool.

AMERICA THE BEAUTIFUL

Mina nuke SDC.

Toasty hush. Mina will be dead before that time, IS is clipping her wings.

Hey, aren't you the one who suddenly decided you thought I was town again? Are you trying to encourage IS to nuke me?

Either is fine. You have sealed your death if Fate is European.

...Wait. Regardless of Fate's alignment, you actually think Hinduragi has a chance of being scum at this point? Like, even the tiniest chance?

I'll save my question for Toasty as another post.

I've been rereading a few people today. Not everything LLD has done fits as scum (her justification over why she'd kill gorilla, for example, looks townish), but I can still see LLD as a Regfan buddy, given the comments Regfan has made about her.

Have another question for Toasty, but where I'm coming from now:

-Hez and ML are unlikely to be scum together. Both confuse me, because they seem to keep forgetting whether they're convinced I'm scum and slip into talking to me from the POV of thinking I'm a townie, but they've dropped a few towntells.
-Nor are LLD and inHim, although I still wouldn't put inHim as my sole survivor after a LLD scumflip.
-The three scum members all seem to be very careful about interacting with their buddies. But something about the way Regfan attacks gorilla, and the way Vi calls the wagon crappy, makes me think gorilla is unlikely to be their buddy.
-Regfan spends a lot of time defending Hez based on meta, in a way that's a bit more subtle than Vi's interactions with gorilla. Not sure if it's too blatant to be scumbuddies.
-Pooky's second-to-most-recent post actually made me feel better about him, because his reaction about not wanting to get into walls came across as townish (he still misunderstood my point on Hez, but again, saving it until after my nuke is fired).
-I really wish I didn't suspect SDC was town, because it will just make him even

more

obnoxious.
-I can see Toasty as scum, mainly because his voting patterns on D1-2 (onto RC, then onto AV even though before he was never that suspicious of AV) looks scum-driven. However, I don't buy the "scum with IS theory." Also don't like Toasty saying he shouldn't survive BECAUSE of the "scum-with-IS" theory, because it looks like he's trying to link Internet Stranger to himself.
-Remember, kids, Hinduragi is confirmed town UNLESS inHimshallibe is scum. Because Magua tracked him to inHim last night.

[Mina]

Inhim scum =/= Hindu scum

lolwut

No, inHim scum =/= Hindu scum.

But inHim TOWN = Hindu confirmed town.

I'm not making the same mistake I did last game and going, "Scum might protect a townie for the WIFOM!"

[Mina]

InHim, still waiting for an answer.

Remember, my nuke hasn't been fired yet. There is a totally legitimate chance that I might turn on you if you don't answer it soon.

LLD, there's also a totally legitimate chance that your dying reads might sway me and help me see the towniness inside you.

I don't suppose she was one of those harping about Magister Ludi being defensive, was she? Because it feels as thought she's playing for self-preservation right now, which doesn't fit with a doomed townie. Particularly all the "Don't nuke me, because there's a reasonable chance I'm town. Nuke someone else, I don't know who. And you can't suspect me, because you don't have REASONS."

And yes, I get to torture people even more with a recent post that doesn't have a nuke in it!

[Mina]

Fucking paranoia.

I almost had a nuke bolded in this post, too.

Internet Stranger, go back to whatever hole you crawled out of. We were doing perfectly fine without you. And you're DEFINITELY not going to be teasing anyone with your nuke, because not only are you incapable of being subtle, but I'm killing you tonight, remember?

inHim, do you think that Hindu and Fate are a scum team?

[Mina]

Fuck it.

Nuke: Lady Lambdadelta

It had to be done.

LLD, were you town?

p-edit: AAARGH!

[Mina]

Now... how do I accelerate this again?

What

WERE

those words~?

STOP FUCKING WITH MY HEAD.

I HATE YOU.

[Mina]

No... no that's not it...

I'm having a HARD TIME remembering what to say.

LMAO.

:-DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

Okay, never mind.

Head still on perfectly straight.

Hinduragi, why does that make gorilla look worse? When I was ISO-ing her, I noticed LLD actually pushed a case on gorilla being the

Serial Killer

, who targeted SpyreX. That almost confirms him as not a buddy, because it sounds like the actual thought process of a SK-hunting European. Or is there something else I'm missing from their interactions?

Oh, and DEFCON = still a set-up that's broken in favour of town as a large game.

[Mina]

Also, LLD, you can't party without a hat.

Your fallen latte-sipping brethren would be ashamed of you.

[Mina]

What happens if the last scum sends in his kill immediately after the day ends (within fewer than forty-eight hours)? Will LLD still be able to nuke?

[Mina]

FATE

UNVOTE

TOASTY MIGHT BE AT L-1 (can't check without a vote count).

[Mina]

I'm here, trying to figure out who I want to nuke. All of a sudden, I'm not so sure it should be HezLucky.

Hey, dana, just checking how closely you're paying attention.

What made you decide not to nuke HezLucky?

Also, what made you decide to nuke ToastyToast? IIRC, you didn't even have a scum read on him before today. And who was the mystery second option?

Also, wow, Fate's reads are terrible--not that it matters anymore, regardless of his alignment.

[Mina]

vote: Pooky

Pressure him until he nukes someone!

Why Pooky? Why not me or inHim?

[Mina]

So the good news is that I'm in fewer games, so I can finally start keeping up with this one again.

The bad news is that there goes the most obvious townie in the entire game (and one of the only rational people left), you fucking incompetent idiots.

Yes, I know, it's partly my fault for being MIA earlier in the day, so I can't complain about how things turned out. But seriously, how hard would it have been to nuke the scummy players FIRST and then leave the unlikely obvtownies for when things get down to the wire?

Hindu, you should reveal who you protected before your suicide takes effect. If you don't, then one of us might accidentally waste a nuke on them and lose the opportunity to eliminate a suspect. Say you protected me, and Pooky targets me. I survive. Well done. Pooky just lost his chance to narrow the suspect pool.

To be honest, I don't have any really strong scum reads at this point, and I have only one confident town read now, who is [REDACTED]. I'm leaning toward an inHim, Pooky, or dana nuke. (dana really confuses me, because he does stuff that looks so objectively scummy, like offering no reads whatsoever and just going on about how many people we should lynch. But I really don't know what to make of his reaction to Fate's fake scumclaim--his utterly weird post of not wanting a scummy for looking "obvtown" after Fate's claim...well, it's ridiculous, but it looks more like a dumb townslip than scum trying to feign ignorance.) Main problem with an inHim nuke is that I remember thinking he came out well in his interactions with LLD. He was one of those along with Fate and Swift Justice begging me to nuke LLD.

inHim, I want you to come up with a retroactive justification for why Hinduragi was a FANTASTIC nuke, and totally the best choice for you as town. Before I fire my own at you. Also:

dana has a good point, makes me feel a lot better about the slot.

...how does that make you feel AT ALL better about him? His observation was total IIoA.

[Mina]

Fate and Toasty are both scum

Haven't been reading the thread, have you?

Eh. I have been reading the thread, but when I went back to look at the dead players, I missed a dead European and thought there were two left. My bad.

Okay, never mind.

dana is confirmed town, so help me. He has to be an evil genius to consistently townslip this much as scum.

And inHim, those are pretty bad reasons. Actually, I just realized something. Had Hindu not just suicided, you could have recalled your nuke and FORCED him to protect [REDACTED] tonight, thereby guaranteeing said player made it to the final three. Now there's an actual plausible chance that town will lose this game.

Do you fear death? Pooky is lurking.

I would honestly be a lot less annoyed by being nuked myself than I am by Hinduragi being nuked.

[Mina]

Goddamn it, inHim.

Stop throwing me off by suggesting plans in which you die.

Can't you make my life much easier and act really, really scummy right now?

Okay, sorry, but I'm going to do some rereading before I fire my nuke. And this time, I don't have Fate/Faraday/et al screaming at me to sheep their read.

[Mina]

IS, you're going to hate me even more for this...

But I've just ISO'd Hez, and am doing a 180 on him. My gut feeling is that he's town.

I think if it gets down to a final three of you, Hez, and gorilla, I'd actually want gorilla lynched.

I'm going to read gorilla now to see if he makes any sense whatsover as scum. Basically

no one

makes sense whatsover as scum, and it's throwing me off.

And even then, inhim has balls of steel if he thinks he can nuke Hindu and survive until the end.

But weren't you the one saying inHimshallibe should nuke Hinduragi in the first place? What changed?

[Mina]

Just say who you protected, goddamn it!

[Mina]

Just say who you protected, goddamn it!

If you keep this up, you'll give me false hope that you were the last scum all along and you just faked that angry post in which you suicided.

There's no protown reason to keep it hidden. It's not like it can protect your target from the NK tonight.

[Mina]

WE ARE NOT FUCKING LYNCHING INTERNET STRANGER TODAY YOU MORONS.

I HATE YOU ALL. YOU ARE TERRIBLE AT THIS GAME.

Remember how I said at the beginning of the game that this was a guaranteed win for town...as long as town aren't stupid? Yeah.

I love how if IS gets lynched, then EVERY PLAYER on Magua's list of obvtownies who should survive the nuclear Holocaust will have died today. The whole fucking point of DEFCON is hunt for townies and then chain-nuke everyone else.

Also, Dana, why are you acting so outrageously scummy when you should logically be confirmed town? Seriously, if you were just mildly sheepy, I'd have written you off as town without a second thought. Are you even TRYING to be consistent in anything you've said all game?

More coming later when I finish work. I'm not suiciding before I fire a nuke. I'm getting extremely paranoid of gorilla, so I'll take a closer look at him.

It might actually be a good idea to time the nukes so that night ends BEFORE I die...but this is why Hinduragi was an idiot for not revealing his target. If town is nuked, he/she might suicide and waste a protect. If SCUM is nuked, then we won't find out that it failed until tomorrow.

[Mina]

I fucking hate this game.

Everyone in the game has done both townish stuff and completely irrational, antitown, scummy shit. I have no clue who's town and who's scum, anymore.

AlmasterGM: shouldn't the deadline be tomorrow night, since you opened the thread on Sunday and it's supposed to be two weeks? Also, can someone who was nuked before the night still fire a nuke the following day?

Also, what happens if a Battleship targets someone N3, that player is nuked D3, but the nuke only resolves on D4? Is the nuke still blocked?

Then again, I don't put much credibility in what Mina says. This is the same person who lurked her obvtownness away and thought I was mafia. She lost her right to complain a long time ago.

For the record, you have been extremely obnoxious this game.

You're the same person who has been wrong about pretty much all of your suspicions. And who chose fail safe just because you wanted everyone who suspected you to die because "you're vengeful."

On a side note, since I'm feeling catty, you only hate white knights when they're defending someone who isn't you, IS?

You guys need to lynch Hez NOW. It's our only viable option. I am pretty much obvtown, and as Mina said, we shouldn't kill IS. I would love to be consistent, but I don't have that luxury with the way PoE is taking me now.

What do you mean, that luxury? Explain what you mean by PoE.

Why do you no longer think Pooky is scum and HezLucky town?

(1. The deadline is slightly shorter, but it has been posted as such since the start of the day and there have been no complaints until now, which is thirty minutes before the deadline. It will not be changed. 2. If you are alive, you can nuke. 3. The nuke goes through because the kill takes place when the nuke lands, not when it is launched, and protection expires at the end of the day. --AGM)

[Mina]

her interaction with hez and LLD r both so faked

if i was her and geinuinel believe that stuff i would press nuke right away

instead she comes up with convluolted drawn out lurker crap

whatever i did my american duty

peace out

"If I was her." That nailed it. My playstyle is the polar opposite of yours.

That attitude is EXACTLY why town is going to lose this game. "Omigod, he said something that sounds kind of suspicious. Hmm, should I attack him some more to see what comes up? Should I reread? No, I'm going to INSTANTLY kill that person based on that one post! Oh, he flipped town? Whoopsie!"

For the record, you know what was the biggest clue that I was town, here? I actually DID nuke my scumbuddy in the last DEFCON, because he was outed by the leaks. And you know what I did? I nuked him right away, with no waffling whatsoever. Because I was 100% confident in his alignment.

This was a completely useless post, and I don't even know why I'm making it when I have to reread LLD within twenty minutes and I have work early tomorrow.

I just hate Mafia, am terrible at it, am not signing up for another game for like six months, and wish I'd just replaced out instead of getting called scummy for lurking whenever I don't have time to post for a period of time.

[Mina]

(1. The deadline is slightly shorter, but it has been posted as such since the start of the day and there have been no complaints until now, which is thirty minutes before the deadline. It will not be changed. 2. If you are alive, you can nuke. 3. The nuke goes through because the kill takes place when the nuke lands, not when it is launched, and protection expires at the end of the day. --AGM)

Where exactly did it say the deadline?

(So you're in luck, Pooky. Your nuke will succeed even if I don't suicide, so you can spew all the dumbass rhetoric you want about how you nuked my European ass for being so scummy for not doing something moronic like impulsively nuking the confirmed town doctor.)

(In the start of Day 4 post, located here. Also, the deadline was shortened by less than a day and I have consistently rounded deadlines throughout this game to a nearby midnight mark, so the minor change should not be a massive shock. --AGM)

[Mina]

I think I'm going to cry.

[Mina]

I am going to nuke either Pooky or inHim within three minutes. Someone give a reason for me to choose one or the other.

I have plans for my nuke tomorrow, though.

[Mina]

Nuke: inHimshallibe

[Mina]

Well, uh....
This sure didn't turn out the way it was expected to. Me, Hez, gorilla, and Pooky for 4-way? Please no. Maybe I should just get in a nuke now to make things simpler.

Nuke: HezLucky

That will leave a 3-way of me with gorilla and Pooky, and then I just have to reread both of them and decide which one's scummier. I don't hate that prospect, actually.

For the record, the first post I was going to make today was that dana was confirmed town and he should be declared sole survivor, because I found a post in which he assumed it was LYLO yesterday, before he realized there was only one living scum.

Nice going.

inHim is also pretty obvtown now (sorry ._.) based on his reaction to dana suiciding out of mindless stupidity.

So basically, one of Pooky, Hez, and gorilla is scum.

Can scum nightkill overnight if they've been nuked?

Here's what I'd do:

-Pooky nukes one of Hez or gorilla, so it's basically standard LYLO in which Pooky has to choose one or the other...BEFORE inHim dies.
-inHim then nukes Pooky. If Pooky does not fire a nuke before then, treat it as a scumclaim. The survivors should quicklynch Pooky.
-Everyone unvotes and waits a week for all the nukes to resolve, so no one goes to night prematurely.

I'll reread just in case there's an off-chance gorilla is scum (but then again, I'm not the one making this decision).

Dammit, for some reason I miscounted and thought I'd be alive to fire a nuke until Tuesday night. So I take it I'm already a crater, but AGM hasn't announced it, yet?