Return to Gambits (SK Win!)

[PeregrineV]

Hello!
Reading through the thread- will give something by tonight.

[PeregrineV]

Oh well, sleep won last night.

Um, don't lynch a town bodyguard. Even if you hate the player, they have a town power role and it's best to use our resources the right way.

[PeregrineV]

@Surye- There is no reason not to at this point. It's only day1.

@Sathoris- So do you think DK is a town bodyguard, or don't you? Putting his play aside, do you believe that is his role in the game?

[PeregrineV]

@Surye- Your vote sucks, to be honest.
As for your logic...it was a forgone conclusion that DK was going to hang. There were few to no cases, it was all "policy lynch, policy lynch". So DK claimed, since that's what you do.
Now, your voting me because I believed him, whereas, you are inferring you thought it was a fake claim?
Do fake claims prevent policy lynches?
If so, please link me two games of comparable size in which a policy lynch candidate claimed and was then not lynched.

As for the NKs & lynch, DK claimed bodyguard and flipped bodyguard.
I had a town read on Sathoris because I liked his logic here even though I disagreed: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3129860

I agree with Cobbler on this statement

...I think CMAR/SG was either the hider or traitor.

although I think CMAR was the traitor. Almost every post contained the mantra "______ is town." Seemed more like a signal than a read.

[PeregrineV]

The stack of pancakes is right. We are 5 days in or so, votes should be as decided by the voter. Day ends max of July8, earlier if mod-shortened.

@Earworm- reading your iso doesn't reveal you as scum or town to me. I'll have to go back and look at the cases on you to see if there's anything there or if they're crap.

@Surye- Whatever. Let's see how long you can coast on that until someone else calls you out.

[PeregrineV]

Post 536

Claiming: Hider.

Ironhead is town.

Post 539

I believe the claim and the motivation of Iron as his target.

Unvote

Post 540

Decent chance that he was town and I like his use of logic. Good person to have confirmed.

@Nocmen- How could you like it when he hadn't even given it yet?

Vote: Nocmen

[PeregrineV]

@Nocmen- I have Iron leaning town, as I'd already Isoed him.

But, you didn't say that that was also your read on Iron. You said you "believe the claim (Earworm's claim) and the motivation (Earworm's motivation) of Iron as his target". But Earworm didn't give that until after your post.

[PeregrineV]

You guys are right. I'm just tired.

And I agree with Cobbler's case on Vezo.

[PeregrineV]

You guys are right. I'm just tired.

Backpedaling?

VOTE: Peregrine

Also,

Peregrine as a replacement, what are your thoughts on the rest of the players?

Not sure how being wrong = backpedaling. I'm not wrong, but I've been told not to talk about it. You can't have it both ways.

I'll do a readlist in the next few days. My biggest town reads are/were Iron and Sathoris (who died last night).

[PeregrineV]

@Amrun- When the mafia traitor is targted by the mafia, they join the team and know who they are and can talk to them. Like in the role dsecsription.
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 5#p3085975


Cobblerfone-Null - early posts seem scummy, later posts seem town.

TheJakalope

Pine-scummy- mostly one-liners and minimal voting.
Nocmen-leaning town (but still dislike telepathic post)

Unvote.

TheMask- leaning town

Monk Quilford

Amrun- null
Surye-leaning scum
jilynne1991-leaning town, (but needs to talk about her earworm "case" or she quickly goes to "confused scum" list)
vezokprika-scummy
earworm- seems town from before claim & I believe it
C-Worl- scummy

Wredfar

PeregrineV- town
Ironhead-leaning town & didn't kill earworm
sorasgoof- null leaning scum

[PeregrineV]

@Amrun- I would normally ignore you since you've presented zero evidence, but I'm trying to avoid work, so I'll give you some posts to quote and yell "Scum!"

[PeregrineV]

coolies, I've caught up with all my games now, yay!
Now for my reads:

Town:

Cobblerfone
Deitykabuto
CMAR
Sathoris
jilynne
earworm
Surye
Ironhead

Scum:

Vezok

wredfar

PeregrineV

TheMask

null:

CWorl

sorasgoof

TheJackalope

Pine

SCUM

PeregrineV
Mask

Nocmen

Sorasgoof

Pine

C-Worl

Vezokpiraka

Cobbler
Surye
Earworm
Ironhead
Jily

(as per another post)

TOWN

Amrun replaced Quilford who replaced monk.
Monk's reads are at the top, Amrun's reads below.
2 distinct players,
One male, one female.
One US east coast, one Australian East coast.
One day1 reads, one day2 reads

Almost exact same reads? Who are you kidding? Might happen if you were town, but totally doubt it. Guessing you replaced into a scum slot, and it's easier using what the slot already posted then redo their work.

Unvote. Vote: Amrun

[PeregrineV]

My Amrun case: 2 separate players, exact same reads even after all the work Amrun and monk did. I call bullshit.
"Amrun replaced Quilford who replaced monk.
Monk's reads are at the top, Amrun's reads below.
2 distinct players,
One male, one female.
One US east coast, one Australian East coast.
One day1 reads, one day2 reads

Almost exact same reads? Who are you kidding? Might happen if you were town, but totally doubt it. Guessing you replaced into a scum slot, and it's easier using what the slot already posted then redo their work."

Cases on me:
Surye- "He's scummy!"

Nocmen-"Wait....so the reads are possible if Amrun is town so therefore you vote her because she's scum?"

Uhhh, what are the odds of two players, given everything I said above, having the exact same reads? Are you even reading?

Amrun-"That is honestly the dumbest reason to vote that I have ever seen. Have fun with that."

Then after the famous Nocmen "Whatdaja say town whut scum?" post,

"Don't care which one goes first. Peregrine, seriously, thanks for totally ignoring the pages and pages of work that I did (and posted) in order to come to those reads. I like it when my suspects claim scum."

All that work, eh? Wow, you and monk must be spiritually connected.

Earworm-"lol"

Pine- no reason given

Vezo- "LOL. I don't see town saying something like that."

When called out by Ironhead-

"This post. I can't see it coming from town. He is strawmanning to get a lynch on amrun."

Now, I cannot honestly for the life of me figure out why we have such a discrepancy in playstyles. As in me and everyone else.
I point out a legitimate WTF where two different players have the same reads, and everyone wants to lynch me for it?
And Amrun didn't switch her vote until Nocmen voted. That's not a clue to anyone?
And Pine has no reason? Is that bad town or scum? I'd go with scum.
And Earworm & Vezo both lol and vote. I know it's a game, but don't you want to win (if town)?

Anyways. If someone wants to express intent to hammer, I will claim. Otherwise, I'll wait until some rational people think about it.
P-edit: Cobblerfone has expressed intent. Claim upcoming

[PeregrineV]

I'm the cop. The insane one.

[PeregrineV]

Nocmen-"Wait....so the reads are possible if Amrun is town so therefore you vote her because she's scum?"

Uhhh, what are the odds of two players, given everything I said above, having the exact same reads? Are you even reading?

Let's look at the case again:

"Amrun replaced Quilford who replaced monk.
Monk's reads are at the top, Amrun's reads below.
2 distinct players,
One male, one female.
One US east coast, one Australian East coast.
One day1 reads, one day2 reads

Almost exact same reads? Who are you kidding?

Might happen if you were town, but totally doubt it

. Guessing you replaced into a scum slot, and it's easier using what the slot already posted then redo their work."

You say that it's fully possible to happen if they were town, but theyn you discount that fact completely and say she must be scum.

By your logic, anything is possible.
By the realm of logic and probability, given the demographic and sociographic disparity in the aforementioned players, the chances of such highly similar reads approach .0001% depending on the order of allocation to each category.
Unless she used something she already had.
So my question to you
@Nocman- How likely is it that two different players get the same reads? And think about the fact that the second replaced the first.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine, what were your results? How do you know you're insane? If you flip insane, we still get information by inverting your results.

This was discussed day1. Cops should have investigated themselves. I came up bad, making me the insane one.

[PeregrineV]

@Peregrine: why did you wait until the next post to claim?

I voted you because that point was ridiculous. It was very clear that Amrun actually spent a lot of time trying to get reads on people and you called her out saying she just copied and pasted reads from someone else. It's just plain stupid.

Thoughts and prayers out to Amrun.

Because too much words in one post seems to confuse some people. The claim in a separate post makes it much harder to miss.

I didn't say she copied and pasted. I think it's so very highly unlikely that the exact same slot in the game had 2 players come up with the same reads, that I voted her, and think it's for a good reason.

Which of her posts indicated to you that "it was very clear Amrun spent a lot of time trying to get reads on people."

[PeregrineV]

V/La for an indefinite period of time. My father had a heart attack. I will probably post a little, or maybe even a lot, depending on how much distraction I want, but I may disappear for a couple of days and wanted to make everyone aware.

Hope everyhthing turns out OK.

[PeregrineV]

What wpuld the scum motivation be for doing such a thing? Especially when I went through the trouble of showing my work? Also the reads aren't even the same. I have vezok as town, for example.

Seriously dumbest thing I've ever read.

Who is an insane cop now? Don't have time to read carefully.

You probably thought most people wouldn't read through the thread or catch it. Do you think anyone else say it?

Did anyone else notice Monk reads=Amrun reads and just not comment on it because it's not worth it?

Showing your work? If you mean give reasons for your reads, that's expected.

The Vezok exception is fully noted. He is also on my suspect list.

Me=Insane cop

[PeregrineV]

^The above retaliatory attack is an awkward hybrid of OMGUS, strawman, and AtE.

You should vote him vote it.

[PeregrineV]

^The above retaliatory attack is an awkward hybrid of OMGUS, strawman, and AtE.

You should vote him for it.

EBWOP

[PeregrineV]

I want to hear what you think about appearing town. Where do townies fit in with that theory? What should townies be doing that's different from what scum does acting town? I'm not disagreeing with it, but I want to hear your personal stance.

Townies don't need to "act" town; they have the advantage of authenticity, so their actions should speak for themselves. Scum must try to blend in and feign authenticity. If they do not, they immediately exude their scumminess, as it appears vezokpiraka is doing.

I may be wrong -- I was wrong about earworm -- but we won't know until vezokpiraka is forced to defend himself.

I'm not sure who vezokpiraka's partners might be -- although Amrun does jump out as a candidate -- and I don't want to stumble into the pitfall of guessing scum teams before anyone flips scum. My suspicion of him being protected is in the general sense in that (nearly) everyone is ignoring the case on vezokpiraka (except me and Surye so far). Everyone else's inaction allows scum inaction to blend in.

Yes, And Amrun already mentioned Vezok, so I'd be OK with a Vezok lynch. But if any votes go to Amrun, I'm voting her again. There is more evidence against her in my mind.

Unvote.
Vote: Vezok

[PeregrineV]

I cannot in good conscience switch my vote to chkflip, who is also being voted on by Amrun and Nocmen.
If chkflip has half a brain, he'll survival vote vezok.

Either way, @Earworm, response to your question is on its way.

[PeregrineV]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: chkflip

Did anyone else notice Monk reads=Amrun reads and just not comment on it because it's not worth it?

Fully explain why you think this is scummy. Why would scum just copy the same reads as their predeseccor. In other words, where is the scum motivation for doing what she did?

I don't think it's a question of scum motivation, but player motivation. Why re-do work that has already been done for you? It elicited no negatives reviews the first time around, so why re-invent the wheel?

And honestly, how many people checked? She could most likely expect to copy the previous reads and fully get away with it. 20+ players and I'm the only one to notice. And care enough to comment on it.

If she had quoted the reads and said "I agree with my slot's earlier reads, except maybe for Vezok", would that be cause for concern? Would that make her more likely to be town or more likely to be scum?

[PeregrineV]

I had Cobblefone as SK, so don't feel I was too far off since he was Mafia Goon.

LOL @ Amrun- http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3170379

And now I can, in restrospect, say "I told you so", I'd like all the "town" players to explain to me again why my case was bad, yet exactly correct.

@EmpKing- Thanks for modding and letting me replace in!!! Not knowing alignments at death kind of sucked, but it added a dimension to the game I hadn't had before.

[PeregrineV]

I had Cobblefone as SK, so don't feel I was too far off since he was Mafia Goon.

LOL @ Amrun- http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p3170379

And now I can, in restrospect, say "I told you so", I'd like all the "town" players to explain to me again why my case was bad, yet exactly correct.

@EmpKing- Thanks for modding and letting me replace in!!! Not knowing alignments at death kind of sucked, but it added a dimension to the game I hadn't had before.

No, seriously, your case was fucking horrible and extremely insulting. I happened to be a mafia traitor, but I put a lot of work into this game and I didn't even read my predecessor's reads because they weren't important.

I'm insulted that you STILL think you were right and you can't separate reality from fiction. If you say the sky is blue because little aliens piss blue and it rains on the atmosphere making it appear blue, you're still wrong even though the sky is blue. Those are the basic rules of logic.

So, it sounds like if I go "Chicken-blood voodoo sacrifice says Amrun=scum" that you would buy that over pointing out improbably similar reads that led me to vote you?

Because, in the end, your role was mafia aligned, which I deduced (however incorrectly) from your read list post.