Wizards at the Sorcerers' Den - Endgame

[Vaya]

Hey guys, I replaced in too, replacing Dry-Fit, and the timing seems to be good with night starting.

I should have this thread read by the beginning of the next day.

[Vaya]

No idea why the masons are voting SGR. The guy seems pretty town to me, there are better targets than him right now. Baby Spice, Zdenek, and inhim are much better lynch candidates today if you ask me.

VOTE: Zdenek

[Vaya]

Think I'm having a change of heart about SGR being town. His last post doesn't leave a good impression on me, voting Bunnylover is especially bad.

Unvote

VOTE: SGRaaize

(FTR, I had already read through the thread last night, like I said I would.)

[Vaya]

Your last post in general doesn't really impress me or give me any feeling of you being town, you can just call that gut.

Bunnylover seems pretty obviously town, scum wouldn't be so forward about causing the mass redirect, even if for the purpose of looking town. It would be much more to the scum's benefit to keep quiet about it and cause confusion of night actions, investigations, etc. I don't believe town would see this behavior (you even note claiming the redirect specifically) and really believe she were scum for it. I think you are scum who just sees bunny as mislynch bait.

Also, lesser point, but why the change in attitude between when you last voted me, and saying I should be given a day to catch up?

[Vaya]

Grab: scroll

[Vaya]

Unvote

Zdenek, what makes you so sure that I'm scum?

[Vaya]

Yes, except CSL is town.

[Vaya]

I'm still curious about the lack of Vaya action over grabbing an item. and the lack of Vaya response.

My response is that I don't care if you or RBT think I should drop the scroll, as is why I didn't pay you any attention the first time you brought it up.

About SGR, I really don't like the idea of lynching someone who claims to be able to confirm himself town. The obvious problem with his suggestion though is that scum can easily just kill off RBT and keep him from being confirmed. Perhaps one or two other people should confirm that they are considered undead(not confirming they are a wight, be careful not to actually claim), and SGR can pick among them without saying which he picked.

[Vaya]

I'll just let you guys know I'm not scum, just feeling pretty apathetic towards this game. Honestly I'm not too upset about being lynched, town's probably better off without this lurky slot distracting them anyway.

[Vaya]

Ugh, forgot about "judgement before death." Was really hoping to just be able to put this game behind me.

Town's not really in a position to be wasting lynches on people who are not standing in the way of their win condition, you guys should be more concerned with the wizards. Not just saying this because I'm a third-party, but because its true. If town still want to lynch me, whatever, I'm not going to be upset about it, but I do say it would be dumb for town to do right now.

For the record guys, I have been playing just as I would had gotten a town role pm, I have no reason not to, but I sincerely just couldn't get into this game.

[Vaya]

I see no reason to share it.

[Vaya]

Also, you're sending us mixed signals

"Fine, lynch me, I don't care"
"Oh, RIGHT, my role has the ability to survive a lynch and give judgement, silly me"
"Well, if you guys want to lynch me, whatever"
"BUT YOU TOTALLY SHOULDN'T, YOU SHOULD BE LYNCHING PEOPLE AGAINST YOUR WINCON"

You're scummy as fuck now, revealing your Win Condition is your only chance at living in this situation

I've not been giving you mixed signals at all. I'm saying that I personally don't care if I'm killed and don't have to think about this game anymore, but as a bit of advice, it would be stupid of town to prioritize 3rd party over mafia.

And the judgement was not my role, think back to the message we got at the beginning of the day.

Meh, I guess I'll level with you guys, just so you don't go thinking the whole party is your enemy.

Vaya, firstly, is it a end the game type of wincon, or similar to the priests wincon from the previous game (ie: point score at the end of the game), and it wouldn't have something to do with loot would it?

The point score system you refer to is what we have exactly. Each member of my faction gains points based off of their own personal goal and if we together have enough points at endgame, we win. My goal is something that can be bad for town, so I'm not telling you guys what exactly it is because you may try to get in my way(not that I expect to live at this rate anyway), but not everyone in my faction is at all anti-town. Like GreyICE, who's too obviously aligned with me, is completely harmless and simply gains points based off of the amount of votes he gets over the course of the game by people not in our party.

i suspect some form of anti town sk like group, i bet they done katy in.

You keep mentioning SKer's, but how does that make sense in a game where the rules state that either town or scum win? Serious question. Has there been a SK in previous games?

[Vaya]

is gandalf in your faction too?

Yep, that should be obvious enough.

and um maybe if you wanted to lynch WIZARDS you should have fucking told us vaya was a harmless derp who we didn't need to waste that on.

They did, remember Kat? And gandalf arguing against my lynch, saying how retarded it would be to lynch "confirmed town"?

well vaya just pretty much just fucking said she's unhelpful/harmful to the town! yet we can't lynch her on day 3 of a large game b/c derp.

Exactly why I keep saying how dumb lynching me is.

so wait what townies are lefttttttttttttt

Not many. Unless the mafia is really small for a game of this size(3 or less people, not likely), town's already lost the majority.

[Vaya]

Of course there is a SK

You guys can keep on thinking this if you want, but I still don't get how a SK works given the rules say that either town or scum winning determines when endgame occurs(not 3rd parties), since SKers win alone when both town and scum are dead.

are you guys responsible for any of the kills/damage?

We've caused a little damage, but have not killed anybody.

Vaya says Town is outnumbered by Mafia unless there are only three Mafia (yeah, right), the last thing we need is 2 scum kills per night to fuck us up.

Specifically, I said that non-town outnumbers town. With just the four of us you guys know about, and four mafia, this would be true.

[Vaya]

1) What happens when you get enough points?
2) Is it individual (Gandalf has to get X points to win, you have to win X points to win) or Collective (Collect enough total points for the win)
3) Can you communicate at any time?

1.) Points are counted up at endgame, so we won't be considered to have enough points until then.
2.) Collective
3.) No.

[Vaya]

Oh for FUCKS SAKE VAYA

Meh, sorry. Figured you would get mad. But I was already outed, and you made it too obvious you were aligned with me. If I said nothing, everyone would have just lynched me and assumed you were scum as well. We should probably be fine, neither town nor scum should have reason to bother us.

[Vaya]

Mod: Vaya hasn't posted in twelve days, though he visited the site 3 hours ago

Eh, I'm here and keeping up. Not too much I feel like saying. I'm just waiting for this game to end.

Lynching SGR would probably be best for today, he and inHim are probably the remaining scum. And Feysal should be dying tomorrow no matter what, so GI's push that Feysal is gambiting mafia instead of being a SK is pretty pointless anyway.

Because of what gandalf said, that I get points for killing(or lynching) evil and lose points for killing good, I'm not going to be voting today and risking my points, and is also why I wasn't voting Zdenek yesterday.

Just wondering Baby, what happens if your target is not killed by you personally, like if he were lynched? Do you fulfill your win-condition or not?

[Vaya]

Fellow Adventurers,
Please bare with me here. Perhaps we should here how Feysal intends to achieve his 7 points he needs. I'm all for everyone, but the mafia, winning.

GI, yes I know you don't buy his claim, but give him a chance.

Argh think about what he claimed regarding his win condition and the game ongoing Wraith. Why doesn't that work?

Could you please elaborate?

[Vaya]

We don't want to lynch him because he's so close to dying.

We can probably get rid of all the mafia today if we lynch right, then someone offs inHim with a few points of damage.

[Vaya]

Feysal's plan is fine, and people should get to voting SGR now. I'd vote him myself if I didn't have reason not to.

And during twilight I'll be attacking inhim. Vaya should help me(unless she has a better idea?). I think he's going to flip town, but it helps the paranoid ones among us and nets us some more points probably.

Nah, don't want to risk the points if he happens to be good. You attacking him is good though, I still don't expect him to end up being town.

[Vaya]

That's L-1. Nobody else needs to vote him, let Feysal have the hammer.

[Vaya]

who dies?

I could just kill surye so we don't even need to bother wasting the replacements time.

Yeah don't kill Feysal with it. Like Baby just said, it'd be a waste since he's already offering himself up tomorrow. And Feysal's claimed that he doesn't think he'll get points for his own death anyway, so you're kinda just being a jerk if you kill him and he turns out to be telling the truth.

And you shouldn't kill Surye with the wish either, just because both Feysal and the Adventurers are probably going to be killing him tonight, and the kill would stop us from getting points from the kill, with kills resolving before damage.

Really, between the deaths of Surye, inHim, and Feysal, which are already set to happen, all the scum are sure to be dead by tomorrow. You should probably use the kill on bunnylover, just because she almost has to be the Lich if Surye isn't. It'll help assure that Baby satisfies her win condition and leaves the game by tomorrow.

[Vaya]

And you shouldn't kill Surye with the wish either, just because both Feysal and the Adventurers are probably going to be killing him tonight, and the kill would stop us from getting points from the kill, with kills resolving before damage.

I guess I should clarify this. Temptation is a miscellaneous ability, and thus the QuickTopic is opened after all other actions have been resolved. I don't know when the wish itself would be resolved, but my guess is that it would depend on the wish and how it was worded. The wish does not need to be used to kill someone either. When I paraphrased the ability in my claim, I said I would receive five points if it was used to harm or kill another player. Damaging another player also counts, so the wish could be used to, for example, deal ten points of damage to Surye without it screwing up me or Gandalf getting points.

I'd assume that if you wished to kill someone, that the kill would resolve when kills usually resolve, which is before damage. I guess if he wanted to, he could wish for damage on surye, which wouldn't be too bad, but might be a waste of a wish. I still think that killing bunnylover is the optimal wish.

And FTR, I plan on probably helping with the Surye damaging as well.

[Vaya]

Feysal promises to suicide tomorrow by name claiming. But right, he can just be lynched tomorrow if he refuses to suicide. My suggestion to kill is still bunnylover. Keep in mind that Surye and inHim are already going to die when making your choice.