Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Magister Ludi]

/confirm

[Magister Ludi]

What to do about Rampage and Kinetic...

[Magister Ludi]

As your local resident Cop, I cannot allow you to do that. You see, there are the winds of change in the air. A new set of rules run this townn.

I here-by make legal stripping for payment. It is the natural way of... um.....of life.

Also, fritzler, you sped last Sunday. That will be $2200 dollars. Court date in 8 minutes.

[Magister Ludi]

Or a checkered record....

How large a role will this map play on this game? Does our starting location matter?

[Magister Ludi]

Could be.

What do you know that is significant about Start Location? Could be a few files in your record that go missing if you know what I mean.

[Magister Ludi]

A good point was made that Day one is the

ultimate

flash-point danger zone for the two cult recruiters.

Alberts #75 seems to agree with an earlier post by Yosarian, but I get the subtle vibe he is trying to play the thought of recuriting a hard to lynch player off as something thats so obvious of course he would do it, so naturally he did the opposite. I dont think he did.

I am of the strong opinion both Albert and Kinetic got someone they personally know is solid. Very solid. No wild cards here. They needed to have played with that player and know their style. Is the player respected or not. Most day one lynches on this site seem to be on newer people or a medium player who makes a slight mistep. Older 'veterans' and frequent posters only seem to enter possibility of lynching day 2 or 3. It would make sense to start there.

Flash Thoughts:
(I've read several games before signing up, so I know how a few of the players are viewed here)

Yosarian2: Seems well liked, and well spoken. Good choice
xvart: Solid.
Chronopie: Possible?
Flameaxe: Also a very solid choice

Katsuki

: Too volatile

Kinetic

Recruiter
Seraphim: Recruited Day one last game by both team apparently. Don't know if that makes it more or less likely

Magister Ludi:

Too new

Albert B. Rampage:

Recruiter

bvoigt:

Unknown?
populartajo: Good player, but I personally wouldn't go after him.
Porochaz: Possible

Cobblerfone:

Too new
popsofctown: Unsure

Dry-fit:

Saw him lynched day one several times. No knock on him, but this would turn people off
Fritzler:?
ThAdmiral:?
RaudhrGarm:?

Zdenek

Cecily:

Too new

Bunnylover:

DrippingGoofball: Would be interesting pick for ABR since apparently he hates her, so no one would think of this possibility.
Battousai:?
Tanarin:?

Nobody Special:

Herodotus:?
springlullaby:?

Thoughts by people who have stronger interactions with players on this list would be appreciated.

[Magister Ludi]

I will grow wary of people who dismiss this speculation as 'wine in front of me'. It is essential to winning this game. We need to get in the heads of ABR and Kinetic.

What is their play style
What do they value
What do they think makes a good player
What do they think makes an attractive lynchable player
How likely are they to try a gambit
How long did they spend thinking about their choice. Are they thoughtful players?

[Magister Ludi]

That is a losing strategy as the 'scum' have been preselected based on some preconcieved notion ABR and Kinetic have of their play.

[Magister Ludi]

It is definently not a crapshoot if we try and figure out who ABR and Kinetic may of picked. If we la-di-da around and then get down to lynching a semi-soild player who made some little nuance mistake, then yes, it is a crapshoot.

Town lynches scum already particularly low on day one (=22%) and the 'scum' in this game are going to be particularly hard to lynch players. It could be as low as 10% if we played this game multiple times.

We need to figure out more than usual.

[Magister Ludi]

ABR, you have just as much incentive to want to stop Kinetic cult as town does. Who do you think the five strongest players in this game are, and which ones would kinetic possibly pick?

[Magister Ludi]

ABR and Kinetic want what the town wants as well, the wiping out of the other players cult. It is only better that they are 'bitter enemies', as a victory over the other would be that much sweeter. Most of what they say about the other will be true, most of what they say about themselves will probably still be false.

(feels like dealing with the devil)

Of note Kinetic: "/confirm pre-in
First game in about a year or so"

To get a general feel of the game, I'm in favor of each player proclaiming who THEY would of picked should they of been a N0 cult recruiter. It will give a general feeling of the make-up of the mind.

Chrono, could you explain why these recruiters would NOT want to pick a very good player. It seems like an optimal choice.



Could eliminate all players within a year of joining. Too much of a wild card.

[Magister Ludi]

Why does ABR speculate on there being VI's on his team, when all of them have been wisdom of the crowd's out of this game. Means something. Not sure what

[Magister Ludi]

Who do you think ABR recruited?

Has anything he has said so far wrong or made in an attempt to subvert town?

[Magister Ludi]

Hey Kinetic, ABR, what role do you think the map will play in this game?

[Magister Ludi]

Interesting, most people think avoiding the ultra high profile players because they are too 'hot' of a recruit is a good idea. If I was a recruiter, I would go straight for Yosarian2. Don't screw around with other people. Does no one think similarly?

I have some interesting set-up speculation/points, but I am pending clarifaction from flay about them. It partially involves double picking... with the tree recruiters not part of the game, a double pick would insta-kill the second pickers faction as they wouldn't be allowed to pick again and they would be done in by the white flag rule.

This is thus a load of nonsence by ABR
'Even in a pool of 25 players, we wouldn't delay our choice to risk being the late end of a doublepicking.'

Also, how do we know the recruiters have QT's and day talk? Was that customary from Succession Mafia 1?

---------------------------------
Game Stuff:

Chronopie's self depreciation is also cult sided, he only needs to live a few days by declaring himself a bad player and he has essentialy won the battle.

Yos assumption about Flameaxe about flaking is silly and a long shot at best.

(Also at zdenek, I am not an alt. We had been playing a game in large normal together, sheesh!)

Seraphim has a almost pathetic enterance into this game, which I expected from someone recruited. No inflamitory remarks. No multiple reads. Just a vote.

Not seeing xvart.

[Magister Ludi]

I've reread Kinetic and ABR's opening post in this game. They're weird, both talk about 'choosing' the right side in the war and 'joining' them.

[Magister Ludi]

What are you saying to Kinetic in your recruiter only quicktopic?

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: Yosarian2

Vote is in a bad place. And his reasoning for it is bad on two fronts. One, if xvart is being run up to a lynch today, isn't that exactly the sort of player they would avoid? How come no one mentioned this. Sheeping vote with DGB is bad. Also, reading all pages in this thread is critical, your questions have already been asked and answered.

Question for the other players. Flay explicitly revealed the white flag mechanic at my request.

If the cult recruiters have only recruited once, and they lose if their faction only has one person, why have they not already lost?

Also, Is it even possible to beat the cult? If we wipe out one cult somehow today, the other will always be recruiting even as we lynch their members, always staying one member ahead of an ability we have to stop them.

[Magister Ludi]

Its do or die for town on day one then.

[Magister Ludi]

No, seeing as the main reason for lynching xvart appears to be 'he's middle of the road, thus exactly who the CR would pick! No one would lynch him, so lets lynch him'!

Who would you of picked herod?

[Magister Ludi]

Thats a list, I just want a single name. You wouldn't have recruited xvart would you?

Also, This is also the best possible day for town to talk and share information, speculation and knowledge. There are only two anti-town players and no one can be accused of buddying. Its the optimal time to converse.

[Magister Ludi]

Perhaps. But I don't want to even mention any hidden chance town has to win against the juggernauts.

Who would you have recruited?

[Magister Ludi]

Albert, how many scum per team right now?

[Magister Ludi]

You're too shy to mention the fourth faction in this game I take it?

[Magister Ludi]

Chrono "The probable pick range (In no particular order):

...
xvart..."

DGB "The recruits:

....
xvart
...."

zdenek "Here was my list of most likely recruits:

Anahito Xvart, Teamster"

ooba "xvart\Hero are good picks.
Vote: xvart"

Yos2 "
Anyway, I agree with DGB about xvart. When I was thinking about skilled players who are not high profile, who can still blend in and be relatively unnoticed, the two that came to my mind offhand were xvart and Battousai. So, that seems like a good place to start. Vote:xvart"

sera "Vote: xvart

I find myself in complete agreement with this wagon."

there are more.

-----

You can see, Yos, people are running up xvart to a lynch expressely BECAUSE he if 'hard to lynch' 'a good player' 'not lynched day one'. It is not over the actions he has taken in this game, (or if people think that, the reasons are very weak and not substantiated), but over the fact that he is an ideal lynch for day one because he is NOT (in the views of many) likely to be lynched day one.

Cult Recruiters are people too. They would reason this out. I have yet to see someone in this thread CLAIM they would have recruited xvart, instead the words are something like 'other people would recruit him because he is so good' so he should be lynched off.

As for sheeping with a vote, I see no reason to. You aren't going to get buddy reactions, there are none. You didn't attempt to generate discussion from what I could see. It would almost be better if we all talked, all with whatever orginal thoughts popped into our heads, and then lynched someone off.

"Why is everyone so determined to protect the cult recruiters from answering questions here?"

I asked this already and they answered about page 4-5. They had some other interactions back there, so it is critical you read that as well as whatever else you may of missed.

[Magister Ludi]

Cobble claim of unrecruitable doesn't make me froth at mouth to lynch him.

'springlullaby, Bunnylover, Battousai' These votes are based off me being a 'probable recruit'. What in your mind makes you think that?

[Magister Ludi]

I also want people to comment on what people would have happend should ABR and Kinetic both picked the same person N1. Would one faction auto-lose?

If they simply repick, it would be fine. Is this most likely course of action?

What if they got two picks? Does anyone think this possible?

[Magister Ludi]

Yes it matters. I see no reason possible you would want to withold any information at all.

[Magister Ludi]

So you have no thought one way or the other?

[Magister Ludi]

Maybe I underestimate peoples motivations here. DGB, is your preferred play to survive, get hopefully recruited by the CR's, and win with that particular cult? Because Its like getting blood from a stone from you and several other players.

[Magister Ludi]

You also need to vote Yos2 and not xvart.

[Magister Ludi]

Ok, DGB. Which CR recruited xvart. Who did the other go for?

[Magister Ludi]

I hadn't pondered that deeply but its entirely possible.

[Magister Ludi]

What questions would you rather have asked?

[Magister Ludi]

I actually like Batt as the second recruit. I'm think Kinetic went after Batt and ABR after Yos, for what it's worth.

Batt: "Ludi- I did not vote you for being a probable recruit."

This is a logical problem on many levels. This should be one of the primary reasons to vote someone in this game, as the CR had a choice who to pick. No matter how good I am, picking an unknown quantity as their 'all eggs in one baskets' recruit is bad idea. So if a player is not a probable N1 recruit, its is a terrible idea to vote them, no matter what they do. Do you disagree with this?

"I voted you for trying to get town to focus their scumhunting on those who would be recruited"

That's optimal play....? If you know can try and figure out who they recruit, town wins.

"(which is anti-town at best). I backed it up with the fact that you would be a decent choice for a recruit."

I thought you just estbalished I was a bad choice. Why am I a good choice for a recruit then? Remember, they had to choose before they could ever see me play or post. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

"My main point was and still is you trying to get town to focus on outguess the players,"

That is critcal. There are only two scum, and they have been handpicked. Plus, I am now identifying exactly who I think they are, and its fits in with what I have seen from the CR's.

"and your recent posts is you trying to get us to outguess the mod (which is at best, active lurking). "

Wrong. Mod's will try and balance this setup.

---------------------
This part is another ilogical switch-a-roo by you.

"Post 344- No one cares what would have happened if one of the recruitments failed N0. It didn't happen, and it will have no impact later on"

"Herodotus- if one of the recruiters failed, then they would be dead due to the white flag rule."

Seems like you do care.

HOS: batt

[Magister Ludi]

People need to get on these two wagons.

[Magister Ludi]

Flame, The point is the two issues must go hand in hand, being recruitable and presenting anti-town actions. If you aren't really a good hcoice for being recruited, it makes no sense to vote someone, and if you're are doing anti-actions, it also doesn't make sense to do one.

But you and others are acting as if one face of this coin doesn't exist. If it makes no sense (yes this can be turned into circular logic, but some people just aren't optimal choices) to recruit someone, I don't care if they claim scum or lurk or whatever, they're not a good lynch. (insert adjective here) lynching someone who is probably not recruited in this game is just a terrible plan. (that being said, if someone is doing anti-town actions and it is resonable they were recruited, like Yos2 and Batt, they make good lynches)

As for the HOS, I felt like a finger was only 1/5 as strong as I wanted it to be :p.

[Magister Ludi]

Holy smokes that is not clear at all. First paragraph should read

"Flame, The point is that the following two issues must go hand in hand, being a good recruit target and performing anti-town actions. If a particular player is not a good choice for being recruited, it makes no sense to vote that player, and if a player is not doing anti-town actions, it also doesn't make sense to vote that player (the regular side of mafia)"

[Magister Ludi]

The only time I would really consider the CR's information at all useful is when they are trying to take out or damage the other recruiter. Other than that, avoid it.

[Magister Ludi]

Battousai "I don't see how Ludi is, when all he is doing is trying to outguess the CR instead of trying to find people who are acting scummy."

think i've explained this before but I'll do it again, trying to predict the CR night zero move is half the battle here on day one. They need to pick someone hard to lynch but also someone that will help lead and define their cult in the subsequent days, and they would be more inclined to pick a powerful person in the beginning because no town roles can interact with them.

As for the second part, that is plainly false. It makes no sense to shoot of with a list of 7-8 scum reads when there are only 2 recruited people in this thread. I have actually detailed and outlined two very likely recruits whose play here does seem to conform to cult play, you, and Yos2.

Your play is similiar in many ways, both are laced with accusations of 'outguessing the CR' (wow, there happens to be a human being who is trying to make the optimal choice to win a game, and taking that into consideration is scummy? No.) and weak votes and reasoning I disagree with on several levels.

Casting a wide net of suspicion is pointless (as it helps town implode when It needs to be razor sharp), and is actually anti-town in and of itself. It also happens to be what you are doing.

[Magister Ludi]

Is this them?

"My vote is on you because I think your speculations are pointless. Can you understand that I might think there are better way of finding scum? Do you think that I'm wrong?

Btw, I think your Battousai vote is OMGUS as hell."

Well, it's your opinion that speculation is pointless [which it really isn't. I think i've made my position on this clear enough, and people do agree with me]

I do agree with you that voting people doing anti-town actions is the usual probable way of finding scum. I've established that this is critical in conjecture with the first point.

And i'm not voting Batt, so I don't believe you can classify it as OMGUS. Regardless, if someone is doing anti-town actions or proposing logical arguments I find false or incorrect, I will call them out on it no matter where there vote happens to be. If it happens to be on me makes no bearing on whether my argument is correct and logically sound.

[Magister Ludi]

Yosarian2, how do you think and play when you were confirmed cult in the previous succession mafia? What was your thought process, how did you act, and what are you seeing in Kinetic and ABR play that reflects or doesn't reflect this.

And, would you mind linking me to the last game were you were lynched day one.

[Magister Ludi]

No, Yos, because you were in the same position as ABR and Kinetic you have a unique position to try and tell us what they might be thinking. Seriously, it would help. I don't know why you think any question is a direct attack on you.

And as for linking your day one lynched game, I think that validates my statement about you not getting lynched and being a good recruit. You cant even remember you were lynched day one (could be several years), so it would be perfect conditions to bea recruit. And I'm not sure exactly why you're bringing up the fact that you may quit/etc, if not to try and get a few sympathetic votes off you. Do you agree?

"Its pretty much the same reason for my RVS vote. I don't like how he tried to take a early control of the game. He tried to make us focus on certain players instead of letting everyone put in their info."

What is wrong with taking control of the game? Which players was I trying to get you to focus on? What info did you want to put in? I think ive let people share their thoughts plenty, and try and get inside the CRs head, try and figure out who would be a good recruit and who has been acting anti-town.

[Magister Ludi]

I also want people to comment on what people would have happend should ABR and Kinetic both picked the same person N1. Would one faction auto-lose?

If they simply repick, it would be fine. Is this most likely course of action?

What if they got two picks? Does anyone think this possible?

I posted this back on page 15 Yos, and you ignored it there (while answering another of my posts). I can only reason that you sit fit to answer Lady's questions now because you have a few votes on you, and don't want to appear unhelpful.

This also fits in with you 'ask questions of CR' that have already been asked and answered. You are just doing generic things you think will make you look town.

Also of note is you ignored my previous post directed towards you. Was that on purpose?

[Magister Ludi]

I just want to again this series of events surrounds Yos's Questioning of the Cult Recruiters. I hate quotes, but I think it is nesessary for this:

Post Number 259

Plus, hell, maybe he can help us scumhunt for Kintetic's recruit.

Albert, who do you think Kinetic would recruit night zero?

Kinetic, who do you think Albert would recruit night zero?

Flashback:

Post Number 92

ABR, you have just as much incentive to want to stop Kinetic cult as town does. Who do you think the five strongest players in this game are, and which ones would kinetic possibly pick?

Post Number 112

I for one went through the posting history of every player I wasn't familiar with. I've documented the promising ones extensively when I was approached with the possibility of being lieutenant, before the game thread was even up.

This makes your plan a waste of time.

For the sake of the agreement we had, I will nominate Fritzler, Chronopie and ThAdmiral for yours.

Post Number 106

I'm going to go with:

Fritz
DGB
and either Chronpie or Yos, leaning toward Yos right now

As your [ABR] first recruit. Reasoning after your three.

-------------------------

Post Number 92

ABR, you have just as much incentive to want to stop Kinetic cult as town does. Who do you think the five strongest players in this game are, and which ones would kinetic possibly pick?

Post Number 374

Of course I read what happened back on page 4. It's kind of insulting that you think I didn't.

[Well you didn't]

That's not actually the question I was asking,

[yes it was]

though, and if they had answered the question, I think it would have been a big help to the town.

[and they did.]

This shows pretty clearly that Yos isn't reading the game which he said he was, but thats not the biggest problem (though it is a problem). The fact is that he's incorporating emotion into his posts, talk of 'quitting' 'being insulted' and other such things. It appears to me that he is using it to make himself appear to be the 'good-guy' and so no one lynches him.

[Magister Ludi]

Yos, did you remember saying this about quitting?

"It's unbelievably frustrating. I don't know if I'm getting worse or if everyone else is, but it's to the point where I'm thinking about just quitting mafia for a while after my current games are over. "

Really, I'm not repeating the same 'bs' over and over again. I brought up quite a valid point, in my opinion, about the progression of events where you asked the CR a question they had already answered (and I asked) and I said I had already asked, you denied it, said yours was different, and when I accused you of not reading the game (which It seemed like you hadn't) you get insulted. What am I missing here, really?

And as for 'scumhunting', I think i've done quite well in that regard.

[Magister Ludi]

Important Point: Lurking here day one will go a long way into surviving into day two for any possible recruits.

The ones i'm most worried about are those players that have low post counts in this game, more posts in other games, high skill overall, and distance between posts.

Chronopie fits this bill perfectly. (Thadmiral and others to a lesser extent)

Strong suspicion should be leveled here. (not to mention his play has been lesser than stellar, and quite self-depricating.)

I think at this point he makes more sense as a recruit then the gambiting Batt (to a degree)

[Magister Ludi]

There is no turn around.

Stuff that should be ignored from each CR is anything about setup/recruiting abilities/etc.
Stuff that should be examined from each CR is anything about the other CR, as they have just as much desire to off the other one as we do.

This is what I have been looking at.

------------------------

And as for commenting on the major wagons, there are two, I repeat, TWO cult recruits alive in the game. That means there are only TWO anti-town people running about. If I believe I have nailed them, why waste time at all commenting on any other people in the game?

I have you for one recruit, I had Batt as the other. Chrono's lurking/anti-town behavior has me worried though, and I think it is now a distinct possibility that he was recruited just as you were.

[Magister Ludi]

Yos2, no, never. I haven't played with many people in this game even. (I had barely completed my role in a large theme game when sign-ups for this had closed.)

ThaD suddenly popping up from nowhere/lurking to suggest a three man lynch list is weird. (I'm even a little nervous that he was in fact recruited and knew that he wouldn't be mentioned in many lists and thus make it to day 2) Why did it take 30 pages to say this?

I'll repeat, top three candidates for lynch are Yos2, Batt, and Chrono.

[Magister Ludi]

Hey Yos2, which lurkers are the most likely to be cult in this game? Whats your take on chrono?

Your list of four (xvart, tajo, me, cobble) doesn't seem to include any major ones.

Also, what was the point of your question?

[Magister Ludi]

ThaD,

Chrono, Yos and ThaD now.

(still don't like Batt but no one else seems to agree with me here?)

[Magister Ludi]

I thought the point of those three man lists were to lynch the player who wound out on top? If people aren't going to follow that, why did they supply three names in the first place?

I would like to point out twice now Yos2 has ignored questions directly asked of him by me. You can state you don't want to answer them for whatever reason you like, but ignoring them completley only keeps solidifiying my read on you.

As for Chrono's (et al.) 'burden of proof goes on the accuser' statement, I find that slightly suspect in itself.

For one, you're saying that doing nothing should be excusable behavior because it doesn't make a person scum. Granted, but I it isn't a town tell in the slightest. And you should actively be doing things to make yourself appear town, not simply stating you 'aren't scum'.

Confronted with this accusation, Chronopie, instead of trying to establish his pro-town sentiment through a list of actions/read he has done already that show/prove his towni-ness, (or promptly giving those reads), essentialy states that other people should convince him he is scum.

It smells of a defensive mindset, a reactionary mindset.

Maybe he didn't go back into his history because there wan't too much there. There is little there, and what is there isn't stellar. Personal skill degredation, and other actions stick out. He looks like a very probable recruit at this point.

[Magister Ludi]

I don't know why people volunteered lists unless they were willing to lynch the person who came out on top.

I like xvart's case on Chrono, It details whats been wrong with that player-slot. (also, how does xvart only get 6 votes on that survey and have 8 votes on him)

Lets make either a Chrono or Yos2 lynch happen today. Soon. (bankable deadlines)

[Magister Ludi]

Also at Yos, several question included why you asked if I had played with the CR's before, questions over why you ignored my reasoning when presented as opposed to LL, and others.

[Magister Ludi]

Players I would like to lynch:
Yos2
Chrono
Thad/Batt

People that I will oppose lynching :
xvart
Cobbler

I'm still not very willing to move off Yos2, but at this point in the day if enough people aren't convinced then it probably isn't going to happen. I'm making one last call here.

Chronopie could.

I think waiting until deadline now is a disaster. For one, we've talked about all we can think of, going further into the day serves no purpose (in my opinion), people aren't going to change their reads.

Second, we may need this bankable time on subsequent days.

[Magister Ludi]

I think the most likely low posting/low visibility player that is a recruit is Chrono.

Its bothering me that there are around 5 lpayers with almost no content. the people who have very few posts should get their asses in gear.

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote

Vote: Chrono

Time is now.

[Magister Ludi]

We aren't no lynching in this game when lynching is 10 times more important than normal.

Dripping, if you mean Chrono, I fail to see how that is 'lynch-bait', but after 44 pages of play and posting and game theorey traps and previous preconcieved notions of that players play, if after all that you are still 'lynch-bait', you're doing it wrong and probably should be lynched.

[Magister Ludi]

Where have you been?

[Magister Ludi]

Its that sort of nonsencial rubbish that really affirms you being recruited in my eyes.

[Magister Ludi]

Yos2, I've done 'real scumhunting' (which you keep throwing out there like a meaningless buzz word). I've indentified two very probable people who were recruited based of both actions and potential, and have poked and prodded other people who are also very likely recruited.

I've already laid out a list of reasons for suspecting you. However, when I see nonsencial/throwaway comments ment to accomplish who knows what, I make sure to shoot them down as soon and as readily as possible. You've been doing it several times here on day one, and each time I pull out where you have made a logical mistep you launch into a mini-tirade containing useless emotions, circular logic and more. It continues my suspicion of you.

[Magister Ludi]

Also, to the people not voting, start doing so. This is looking like it has the potential to become a deadline scramble for a lynch

[Magister Ludi]

I'm still willing to lynch Yos2, its simply that that wagon seemed to stall out. I would move back if other people would as well. We really need to stop the one vote wagons/no vote because those arent going anywhere.

Chrono I still believe in.

[Magister Ludi]

This xvart lynch is still horrible. His posts all read as very town to me.

Vigilante Targets

Those under 1 post a day:

Dry-fit
Tanarin
Seraphim
Bunnylover

1.3 and under, but at least 1:
Andrius
Chrono
Katsuki
Zdenek
ooba

If you are a vig, do not withold your shots. Unleash them tonight on these lurkers and low volume posters. These people aren't playing to help town, and there is an outside possibility one is a scum recruit lurking through the day. The 1 to 1.3 group probably is where shots should go.

Votes Needing to be Changed

populartajo - 2 (ooba, Battousai)
ThAdmiral - 2 (Dry-fit, Tanarin)
Tanarin - 2 (populartajo, springlullaby)
Cobblerfone - 1 (Flameaxe)
Magister Ludi - 1 (Bunnylover)

Not Voting: Zdenek

Unless one of these wagons catches fire in the next Day, you need to change your vote. Your vote is being wasted.

[Magister Ludi]

Also, basically all the players I think are suspicious or semi-suspicious are inhabiting the xvart wagon: Yos2, Chrono, ThAd, and the rest don't give me warm feelings either. (ex. NS or bvoigt)

[Magister Ludi]

Batt, what I was saying is that most of the xvart wagon >50% was made up by players I didn't especially like or have pro-town sentiment towards

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote

Vote: Yos2

[Magister Ludi]

And, no, Batt, I'm still leaning towards recruit on you. Several of your posts have been offputting (don't get strong protwon motivation) and several of your suggestions have been flat out wrong. (no lynching for example)

~~~~~~~~

Hey, Yos, do you still disagree with me and think Batt is an unlikely recruit?

[Magister Ludi]

No, ooba, of course not. But If I have my two main suspects on the xvart wagon, Yos2 and chrono, and several other secondary suspects, It only reinforces to me that xvart wagon is not very good.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, but I don't think xvart is at all.

[Magister Ludi]

No, Batt, no lynching is very anti-town. When do you propose we start lynching? Day 2? 3? When there is only cult left?

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: Battousai

[Magister Ludi]

Reread, dislike DrippingGoofball.

hmm, Herod, why were you expecting more vig kills?

[Magister Ludi]

Also of note, the map is unchanged. (Also, Things that probably need to be discussed sooner rather than later is what the map does, and if our occupation does anything)

Top Scumreads based on Reread of Day one:
Batt
DGB
ThaD

Top Recruit Targets for Scum: (people who are good but played a low/very low profile day one)
Seraphim
ooba

[Magister Ludi]

Did he claim and I missed it? Otherwise, I see no good reason for that request.

[Magister Ludi]

DrippingGoofball, you at least need to reveal what you were thinking might have worked. Going 'I have a master plan!!!' but then after a night with two cult recruiters saying 'Well, forget about it' is not only inconsistent, it actively makes you look like a recruit.

I prefer Yosarian didn't full claim. There is no real reason to do so (even when being lynched, If you're town it only helps the cults) I actually also don't think he was recruited night one, and that goes for xvart as well. People with an absolute ton of pressure on them day one are not very attractive targets.

Seraphim, you need to explain in the next post or two why you wanted Yosarian to claim anything, and the reason had better be good. Your post definently struck me the wrong way.

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, batt brings up an interesting point about ooba and the word track. Its not much, but any hint of inside information should definently be looked over.

Cobble: "Welp, meeting apparently didn't work."

What do you mean about meeting? (If its something you think should stay hidden, stay quiet. But you've claimed unrecruitable, so any information you give us can only help town and come from a town point of view.)

[Magister Ludi]

Well, maybe we should ask people to confirm whether or not they were at 33 (the night club/lounge) last night. (note, not were they were, just whether or not visit 33)

Would that help you figure anything out cobble?

[Magister Ludi]

ooba, it says so on the wiki (where you are redirected if you click the map) Is there a reason you didnt bother to figure this information out?

[Magister Ludi]

ooba, does now knowing locations change anything?

~~~~
Fritzler, can you explain how you spent all of yesterday voting xvart but today voted Yosarian2? I dont think he or xvart makes a likely recruit target night one.

(I'm actually not sure If I think Yos is cult anymore after re-reading.)

[Magister Ludi]

That plan looks flawed from the start (does It matter which of Kinetic or ABR recruited someone)

So I'm infering right now you have no particular opinion on who may have been recruited night one?

[Magister Ludi]

How is it helpful if anyone states they think the most likely cult recruiter to recruit them would be (insert Kinetic or ABR)? What good does that infomation tell us? It is useless, much as learning about someones favorite color would be.

I'm not sure what IIRC means or what you're trying to imply with the second sentence. I think you have things completely wrong. If I come to an independent conclusion about who is likely to be recruited based on skill, play the previous day, or whatnot, of course I am going to trust myself.

Thats half the way we are going to find any cult, by analyzing who would make a good recruit based on play/amount of heat recieved the previous day, and then based on how their play differs from day to day (if it does.)

[Magister Ludi]

Actually,

Unvote
Vote DGB

~~~~
I also need an answer from Seraphim in his next post about my previous question (concerning Yos). I know I am repeating myself, but this is exceedingly important.

[Magister Ludi]

On DGB,

I wondered why I wasn't suspecting DGB for her play in day one, and then I realized I had no idea. She was all over the map, and I her pushes on people didn't nesessarily read at all pro-town.

The fact that her master plan was bollocks, she had an ability and apparently failed to use it (this doesn't sound anti-town at all...), and I'm not sure her reasoning behind her vote today, I am quite happy with my vote.

(plus whatever the heck Kinetic is talking about, but don't factor that into anything)

[Magister Ludi]

(shrug) :p

In this case its actually worse for town if town don't use their abilities. If, for example, a cop didn't use his ability, thats a huge blow to finding cult, as town is racing as fast as possible to discover who the cult are through any combination possible, roles, map, ingame play, lynching. Cult aren't to nonplussed is they forgot an ability, they know they have inevitability on their side.

I'm not as sure about her alignment day one now, obviously. Or day two especially.

[Magister Ludi]

bvoigt, check my last couple of posts. I explained it there.

(Also batt, I'm not a 'her')

[Magister Ludi]

Heord, yeah I agree that those people are likely choices, but a lengthy list does no one any help asthere are only two possible recruits. I disagree that Seraphim was a potential vig-shot, as I didn't see anyone mention this at all and he played quite a low profile day one.

Why would the scum have based the desicion on their targets location?

~~~~
Yeah, I'm all for this DGB wagon. Read her play and tell me what exactly has been protown. (And DGB, your plan was bollocks. Its not protown to make out as if you have a cracker of an idea and then drop a fizzler.)

~~~~
I'm not sure what exactly to make of Kinetic statement up there.

Kinetic, is it your estimation that DGB was recruited on night zero or night one?

Also, is this the person you said you had 'found information regarding ABRs recruits,' or is it another person?

[Magister Ludi]

eh? DGB, you have to realize if you're town that self voting in a double cult game is singularly the worse thing you could do, doubly so if you actually are a town power role. (Its not good for the town at all) I can't see a self-vote as anything other than antitown.

I don't understand why you're willing to crack after three or four votes. Besides Yos2, who else is cult for you?

[Magister Ludi]

Thats even worse for town. Two town would potentially die and then recruitment and then we're in an even worse position.

DGB, I consider asking the cult recruiters questions about the other cult valid, they have as much inclination as town to want to obliterate their enemies. If Kinetic can hurt Albert, he will, and vice versa. Its a potential useful source of information. But, when regarding all things not the other cult, its best to ignore them.

~~~~~~

I also dont see how you can consider Kinetic 'owning' Albert in the sinster department when you consider we haven't heard from him all of Day Two and before because he is v/la (at your goofbash apparently)

[Magister Ludi]

We already know the cult recruiters aren't trying to help town, only trying to further their own ends. (I'm not even basing my vote off Kinetics comment, and I dont think anyone but yourself on your wagon is)

We dont need town players to die for us to realize the cult recruiters are playing to their win condition.

Self-voting as town is just horrible. With double cult. And as a potential 'power role'.

I can only consider you cult.

[Magister Ludi]

Swamped by graduation and other such things. More posts coming over next few days.

DGB is still scum. Tajo lined it out rather nicely with a series of quotes.

Seraphim is also highly likely scum at this point. I have information that pretty much confirms he is lying about what he did last night.

Cobble still doesn't look recruited. No cult is going to come out and say 'tehehe, I was lying to you guys on day one, let me spell my contradiction out for you to lynch me over'. It's town.

[Magister Ludi]

If you confirm you say you

A. Targeted Yos last night and
B. Found out information

I don't need anything more.

Also you need to explain how you switched to 'Magister Ludi has no chance of being town' based on no actual reasoning I can so whatsoever.

And I would have voted you if there was not a far more obvious cult in DrippingGoofball.

[Magister Ludi]

No Access until Saturday night, Pacific standrad time. (Orientation, )

To whoever asked, I am trying to get as little information as possible from Seraphim and piece together my own role with what flay is telling me (note, he is being insanely cryptic) because its rather complex if Seraphim is in fact lying and if he is and I claim I want it to be a for sure scum lynch.

No part of outing a triangle of town sided roles if I am not correct makes sense.

But aside from this exciting happenings, I cannot believe DGB hasn't been lynched yet. Yosarian, xvart, anyone, what part of her play here has been town. Populartajo made an excellent post showing only four of her inconsistences today, and yet we only have a middling wagon going. This is infuriating. She is cult.

Her logic is terrible. Her 'reason' for voting me after she claims she needs to 'die to help town win' (hehe what??) is plain wrong and illogical. (if there is even a reason)

[Magister Ludi]

Finally back. I had no access for the end of day two yesterday.

~~~

I think it is time I claimed.

I have two abilities. Firstly, I am a Jailkeeper. I have jailed Yosarian2 on night one and night two, which means (hopefully, other wise this role isn't very good) that he was unable to be recruited on those nights. So far, all Flay has been clear about is that I roleblock and doctor protect Yosarian.

What Flay was ambigious about (despite me asking) is whether or not I roleblock anyone performing an action against Yosarian on those nights. Obviously, if this is true, there is no possible way Seraphim could have gotten anything (pertaining to role information) from Yosarian night one like he claimed to.

So, to everyone else, If you targeted Yosarian on either night and got No result (or something indicitating you were blocked), post in thread immediatly saying "I got no result", and then we lynch Seraphim.

The second ability pertains to Herod. Because we 'work the beat' together (cops), I know if he has been recruited that night or not. As it stands he has not been recruited on night one or night two.

[Magister Ludi]

Anyways, we definently need to be lynching DrippingGoofball today.

I can't believe this wagon doesn't have any more votes. Yesterday she came out and gambited in the hope no one would lynch her, and it worked. She claimed that we needed to lynch her for some unknown reason because otherwise town loses, (so we don't listen to the confirmed scum, which we aren't and weren't doing anyway) but then drops that line of thought to persue other votes, and never mentions it again.

Also not to be forgotten is her insistence of living through day one so she could hatch a master plan to catch the scum, but when day two rolled around her plan amounted to a pile of sawdust, and yet she got away with this massive gap in logic scot free.

The following is also a series of quotes by Tajo the detail some other inconsistences.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 2#p3148192

~~~
The following people I think are town, know are town, or unlikely to be recruited, as of day three. I'm debating whether or not massclaiming in an effort to expand this group is nessecary. At this point, with five potential cult out there and only townies dying by night, another mislynch is game over for town.

Magister Ludi
Yosarian2
Herod
Herods Inno
Cobble
xvart (based on the fact CR's would be scared off by wagon)

[Magister Ludi]

I jailkept Yosarian again last night, I said that earlier. I actually plan on continuing to jailkeep him so he continue to stay the same alignment (which I am hoping is town)

If you got a no result on night one, how in the world did you know Yos was a targeting power role?

[Magister Ludi]

You lie.

Yos should claim his target N1.

Not his ACTION. I don't want his action. I want his target.

Unvote
Vote Seraphim

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: Seraphim

Ludi, by definition, a Jailkeeper will roleblock any action that is taken on your target.

It's an action immunizer+ roleblocker combined.

This is what I thought, however, I was uncertain as Flay didnt specify. Nobody Special does seem to back this up though with his:

So, to everyone else, If you targeted Yosarian on either night and got No result (or something indicitating you were blocked), post in thread immediatly saying "I got no result", and then we lynch Seraphim.

I got no result.

Unvote

Vote: Seraphim

~~~
Sera, you're lying because you asked Yosarian to claim who he targeted on night one, implying you knew he was a power role that COULD target, and this is clearly impossible because NS has confirmed I stop all incoming actions.

~~~

I honestly believe that seraphim did not know he was blocked, and thought it had to do with Yos's target. I mean, don't all the cult members have abilities anyways? Why lie about your ability?

It certainly isn't town sided. Forcing a power role to claim for no good reason and then all the posturing day two doesn't come across as town.

~~~

Ludi- You don't have to keep using your ability on Yos. Namely because 1) he is already recruited, 2) your ability doesn't block recruitment, 3) The WIFOM of saying that you will continue blocking him should keep him safe from future recruitment. Take your pick.

Vote: Katsuki

Actually, I think Flay mentioned in the post-mortem of game one that someone jailkept another player the whole game, confirming them as being the same alignment the whole game.

~~~

Also:
Vote: Herodotus

WHAT IS THIS?

Are you reading the thread? Herod is confirmed innocent. Reread my claiming post. Or read it a first time.

[Magister Ludi]

Hey I was reading your posts.
You've been calling DGB scum, saying we need to lynch her.
WHERE IS YOUR VOTE ON HER?

I voted her all of yesterday while I was here, and while trying to figure out the Seraphim business I went v/la and only came back today. So yes, I think she is cult recruit, and I would be voting her If I didnt have role information taking precedence over that.

At the moment, it seems like ML is trying to test the water for your lynch, without actually been the head of it.

This is clearly false. Did you read anything of day 2. Actually, all these inconsistences have me question whether you are reading anything anyone is poting or not.

[Magister Ludi]

Dripping, your chains of logic are simply unsound. Also, the fact that you said you needed to be lynched (even voting yourself), but have since dropped that line of thinking is a monumentaly bad turn around because you stated yourself that town basically needs to lynch you to have any chance to win.

Not that it matters at all which cult you're not in if you ARE cult. And it makes a whole hell of a lot more sense for you to be in Alberts cult.

At this point, yeah, I see Dripping as a highly likely recruit, as is Seraphim, and perhaps springlullaby. The fact that both cult recruiters have come out of the blue with statements about recruits of the other cult strongly imply they might have some sort of investigative powers themselves, and I'm actually tempted to believe it.

All three of these players should be dead by tomorrow.

[Magister Ludi]

huh? If you're talking about yourself, thats untrue. Even if someone knew nothing about you at all (and I do, your play in speed mafia was exemplary) you have won several awards and more, and clearly could last more than one day.

[Magister Ludi]

Plus I just 'isoed' Katsuki, Kinetic comes up only four times in his entire posting history, I don't really know where you get the fact that he is saying you can only be in Kinetic's cult and that is why he is voting you.

[Magister Ludi]

As much as I think I am right about dripping, the fact that I have role information condemning Seraphim takes precedence.

[Magister Ludi]

I think there do appear to be oddities, and the fact Seraphim asked Yos2 to claim for no good reason is not town sided.

I think he is highly likely recruited at this point in the game.

[Magister Ludi]

bvoigt, I thought when I posted that it was obvious it was a joke. Yeah, I have no knowledge of any faction besides the two cult recruiters and town.

[Magister Ludi]

but you just don't believe what I'm saying or are you just trying to waste your vote for the day so you can late wagon at deadline to avoid suspicion?

This implies that you think one of bvoigt or flameaxe is scum. Instead of doing it in this cloaked manner, would you mind expanding upon your read of either player?

~~~

And I don't want to lynch Hero today, since he's a claimed cop who actually got us a scum yesterday.

Not to mention the I know for a fact that he is town aligned today.

~~~

Flameaxe wrote:
Vote: Cobblerfone

What bvoigt said. Willing to hop on a Ludi wagon as well.

I see your willingness to try and bandwagon away a player who I think has a low chance of being recruited anyways, and has claimed unrecruitable, and you complete overlooking of the Seraphim wagon, more likely to come from scum then town. You need to convince other people to join you on the Cobble wagon, and I dont see you doing that.

Also, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at by saying you would vote my wagon. I don't have a wagon, and unexplained reads are not the bees knees.

What are your reads on Dripping and Seraphim? If you're feeling ambitious, I'm willing to listen to your thoughts on springlullaby as well.

~~~

[Magister Ludi]

Flameaxe

Regarding DGB: I'm torn. As with Yos, I've seen this DGB before as town. I'm also wary to follow this past experience and claim she is still town here. As much as I see her doing this as town, I can also see her doing it as town, so it's a nulltell as of now in my eyes.

DGB is probably town, so is Sera.

I see no explanation of what changed here between these two posts.

As for voting you: Most of it comes from my dislike of your day one play. I found it to be rather worthless and fluffy, which is exactly what I expect from an early recruit. You spent more time on setup and recruiter speculation than actually doing what I would consider looking for a recruit. Posting a lot without saying much is another thing I looked for day one. And again, this thought process was NOT hidden throughout this game. Just because I don't always put my thoughts into a single post case, doesn't mean it isn't there

Can you breifly describe whose day one play was a great example of town play, because other wise your suspicion looks exceedingly forced and weak. Your entire case (not simply most, or if there is more you also have elaborated on that) or reason for voting me seems to be predicated on the fact you disliked me for trying to early day one figure out who the cult recruiters would pick. Thats a horrible reason for a day three vote.

I get the feeling you're concerned with appearing overly consistent in your logic and pushes, almost to a fault. It definently reads as though you may have been recruited and DON'T want to be seen having differing reads from your earlier town self (if you were town ever, unknown) You haven't added a single new scum read since day one (you thought Cobble, myself, and Katsuki (?)) were scum then, and still do now. And haven't mentioned anyone else)

You aren't really questioning other people at all, and there are definite actions going on that any town player should be concerned about (What to make of Seraphim misrepping, asking for claims for no reason, DGB acting insane, the cult recruites claiming guilties and what not.)

~~~

[Magister Ludi]

Flameaxe, how could Seraphim possibly know Yosarian was a targeting power role if its now been confirmed that when I jailkept Yosarian I roleblocked anyone actioning on Yosarian.

Plus your reads have changed from 'torn' to 'probably town' with no in between.

[Magister Ludi]

I know/was told where Yosarian was last night as well.

[Magister Ludi]

I actually think Seraphim has an even better chance of being scum now, the fact that he has gone into trying to confirm parts of his role instead of proving who else might be cult recruited seems like an easy play that is much more likely to come from scum who want heat off their back than town.

xvart, its probably good if you read the thread, not only the role interactions, because you may have missed something in earlier pages.
~~~~

springlullaby last two posts are also bad. She is arguing about whose recruit she could be, as if by dispproving one of the recruiters or she could effectively clear her self of being recruited, when it only matters if you have been recruited.

What did you hope your question to alberts recruits (who do you think they are by the way) will accomplish, by the way, because to me it looks exceedingly pointless.

~~~~
What is this non-voting nonsence:
Battousai, Bunnylover, Fritzler, Seraphim, springlullaby, Tanarin, xvart, Zdenek

[Magister Ludi]

[Magister Ludi]

Also ML: You do not know if you block other people from using abilities on Yos, so you can't really claim in that aspect that it is for certain that Sera would have to be blocked.

Actually, nobody special confirmed this after I asked someone to reply if they got a no result on Yosarian on either night.

[Magister Ludi]

DGB

If there is a recruitment-doctor please protect me.

If anyone has an anti-recruitment power, USE IT ON ME. Feel free to lynch me on Day 3 after the plan is explained to everyone.

My preferred play is to HUNT SCUM, and avoid recruitment.

~~~
DGB

Clearly they tried to recruit me and failed - why else would they be so adamant?

~~~
Yeah, again, DGB needs to die tonight as well. Claiming for Doc's to protect you when you're unrecruitable is heavily anti-town, and I see no reason you would have done so if you were unrecruitable. It seems highly likely you are Cult DGB.

(As is springlullaby, and possible Flameaxe, and outside chance of Bunnylover if we assume cults are on track recruitment wise.)

[Magister Ludi]

Becuase Seraphim is highly likely cult, and I don't have two votes nor two lynches to deal with.

~~~~~

And yes, the scum have just as much incentive to wipe out the other cult using all their means possible. The fact that both ABR and Kinetic clearly seem focused on two players suggest some sort of mechanic they have in place to detect recruits from the other side, and since I already found you incredibly likely cult Kinetic is only backing this up.

[Magister Ludi]

huh? I don't have an investigative powers, and I have no idea what you're talking about. Heord has some result he hasn't told anyone about yet.

[Magister Ludi]

I don't understand how anyone could not be seriously considering or voting DGB or Seraphim.

Seraphim still, after the role business, hasn't done anything to shake a cult read on him, minimal actually trying to find out who might have been recruited. This is perhap the most damning evidence against him. Combined with his random forceing of claims and I don't know why more votes aren't here.

Is there any chance you'll be saying anything before you go V/LA by the way?

~~~
I just learned ABR's avatar was house. Never put it together before (not that I watched that show anyways, but still!)

[Magister Ludi]

@ML, why did you target Yosarian last night, when your scumlist of yesterday did not include him?

I protected him night one, and did so again night two because I hoped my protections prevent recruitment and didn't want him to be recruited. I didn't think he was scum, just the opposite, I thought he was town.

~~~
I still don't see how DGB and Seraphim aren't getting more votes here. Nonsence questions like this prove to me she is recruited

What are the chances that Kinetic had two recruits (Porochaz + X) and failed to recruit me by Day 2?

For one thing, why would they fail to recruit you? You've denied you are unrecruitable (or if you have thats incredibly anti-town because your play day one was to call for the cult doctors to protect you) so I don't understand why you think they would have failed to recruit you. And I'm not even sure how you got to your numbers.

If night zero for Kinetic was X/poro
Day one
and night one was the other one of x/poro
Day Two

Where was the failed chance they had to recruit you?

There was none. This question makes no sense, and the fact you're trying to use it to disprove anything at all is hilarious and quite anti-town I find.

The most logical explanation is that you are in fact recruited by Albert B. Rampage, and you're cult.

[Magister Ludi]

ANYWAY since the two people that apparently had a town read on Katsuki to contradict my scumsense on Kats now agree that Kats is suspicious:

What does this mean?

It's because Katsuki is playing the game and pushing a DGB lynch.

That's not her. It's totally meta and gut, and I put no credence in either of those usually...

But in a game like this, when alignment changes on a dime, it's good to use at times.

She's just being odd compared to Kats!town.

You think DGB is playing at all pro-town here, let alone to any town meta she might ever of had ever?? I still am not seeing the Katsuki hate at all, it mostly looks like DGB frothing at the mouth (which is quite big might I add) and people just coming out of the woodwork to sheep along.

Also, what is odd here compared to Kats town? And what about that makes Katsuki more likely scum?

[Magister Ludi]

Which one is it, scum or town, zdenek?

[Magister Ludi]

Why did you end with this then:

All in all, he is either scum or very lazy town.

[Magister Ludi]

Yosarian, the fact I consider you more probably town than anyone in the game besides Herod I'd like to know your thoughts. I have a hard time seeing DGB as town here, and Katsuki is pushing heavy against DGB.

My vote will probably wind up on DGB because this Seraphim wagon is going nowhere (for unknown reasons). Do you think DGB is not cult recruited scum as this stage?

Also, what is your read on Springlullaby and Flameaxe, two other players I consider highly likely cult recruit.

[Magister Ludi]

heh, maybe I'm reading DGB wrong then.

Unvote

Rereading to do.

[Magister Ludi]

I'll also read the current low posters in this game, zdenek and Tanarin. I think lurking is especially efficent in a game like this, where saying as little as possible from day to day (if recruited) to prevent yourself from contradiction is a valid strategy.

Zdenek 2011-07-03 13:09:08 1 day 13 hours 35
Tanarin 2011-07-01 21:24:46 3 days 5 hours 32

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: Katsuki

I went back on his iso, yeah, I definently could see him as cult.

The problem is, I'm not sold on DGB being not cult at this point. I just can't see all the logical jumps and inconsistences coming from town, especially considering the last game I played with DGB I was very impressed with how solid she was.

Zdenek also seems like a possibility, in that it looks like he's trying to boradcast his moves long in advance (setting up a DGB vote, Tanrain speculation) but isn't following through very heavily on them.

~~~

Don't worry Yos2. Who, besides Katsuki, did you pin as the second most likely recruit, though?

[Magister Ludi]

Fritz, who you going to vote?

[Magister Ludi]

@Ludi: What did you see in that iso that pushed you to a vote exactly?

It was a combination of things. First, I read Yosarians input on the matter and went to see if I agreed with what he was saying. Katsuki has had a lot of pretty bad votes, many with little reason given and not much in the way of following up on them, and when he has given reasons I haven't really agreed much with the logic behind them. Also, he's had less posts that make me agree with them then I would expect from someone who was also town. (and he's been posting less than usual, nto a huge strike against him, but definently more likely to come from recruited cult than town)

~~~

Flame, since you agree with the Katsuki wagon, do you plan on joining it and hammering it home if your Lady L wagon doesn't take off?

[Magister Ludi]

Lurking does make a lot of sense as cult, and several of the players I consider potential cult recruits also have close to the lower number of posts: Katsuki, Seraphim, Zdenek as well, Flameaxe.

I also wish Herod was more active today, I'd like to hear more from someone else I know is town. If the result you got of use to anything in particular, now is the time to say because it could definently change by tomorrow. Who sticks out as scum now that you've removed your vote?

~~~

I'm also still highly suspicious of DGB, and each post is not alieviating that, especially since you've again called for cult-recruitment protection despite semi-soft claiming you were unrecruitable.

[Magister Ludi]

But I was just looking at the Queue forum, and guess what, folks? Tanarin has asked for replacement.

The post above is his. His last one. And you know what. It's just dawning on me that the highlighted sentence makes Tanarin a high-priority Kinetic recruit. He even used the word EVIDENCE

Can you unpack your thoughts here some more? What has the word evidence done to you to make you think he was recruited?

~~~

[Magister Ludi]

I don't like the call for protection at this point in the game either, but seriously, DGB softclaimed? It was obvious it wasn't actual claiming, soft or normal.

Thats what soft claiming is, it is not actual claiming. Trying to imply you are unrecruitable, which I got the sense from two or so posts that DGB was trying to do, but not actually saying it, is soft claiming.

That didn't really strike me as obvious, in fact, I thought it was the opposite.

And I don't at all have a problem with someone calling for recruitement protection, Herod should be flooding this thread up and down asking for it. The problem comes when asking for some sort of pro-town cult negation seems to directly clash with a stance you held about your own powers before.

[Magister Ludi]

This is why DGB needs to be vigged as soon as possible. All this nonsence surrounding you that you yourself bring is anti-town. You claim we need to lynch cultists, and then vote yourself (again?), which is just bad. I think the only reason people people aren't jumping all over this is because this has come to be 'expected' when in reality some of the stuff you've done today makes no sense.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, DGB, I think we do have bankable deadlines.

I'm not sure why people are waiting for a fakeclaim though, everyone has the same role whther they are cult or town, if someone is cult they still have the same exact role from when they weren't cult. So a claim really solves nothing and is detremental if we wind up not lynching that person (re: xvart) because we outted a power role for no good reason. I'm not sure why people are waiting around expectantly for something that makes no difference.

[Magister Ludi]

- If he's town, it's confirmed info
- In a two scum team environment, one team always has info on the other - I'll take it with a pinch of salt but I'd rather have it than just hammer

If he's town, and we don't lynch him, we outed a power role for no reason.

What do you mean one team always has info on the other? This is rather ambigious and I don't know what you mean. Each team probably knows equally as much as the other team unless they recruited some sort of power role, but then again town has no way of knowing if this happened or not so its useless to assume it did.

[Magister Ludi]

Sure, if he's got explicit role information on someone else, claiming is a good idea. Though, I think this would probably have come out already.

But, If, for instance, he's a cult doctor or some other power role, having him claim is bad because most people wouldn't believe him and if he doesn't get lynched scum are now even more informed of the setup than before.

[Magister Ludi]

Battousai, who is 'they' exactly and what 'stuff' should 'they' be doing?

[Magister Ludi]

Spring, I don't think popular is contradicting anything, and keep in mind that we know that Herod is innocent today. So to push on him in an attempt to lynch is basically claiming cult in thread.

Maybe there is a good reason for you terribly scummy contradiction here. Or maybe you are ABR's recruit, and we can make friend and talk over tea.

Why don't you think Pop can be Kinetic's recruit?

[Magister Ludi]

Maybe there is a good reason for you terribly scummy contradiction here. Or maybe you are ABR's recruit, and we can make friend and talk over tea.

Why did you here decide that Pop was unlikely to be Kinetics recruit?

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, I think spring has a high chance of being recruited at this point, but so does Katsuki and it doesn't seem nessasary to switch off one person I think is cult to another.

[Magister Ludi]

It wasn't because LLD unvoted beforehand.

[Magister Ludi]

LLD, why did you wait until Katsuki was at L-1 or potentially hammered to bring up the fact you are both bartenders and it maybe isn't a good idea to lynch him?

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, Katsuki needs to be lynched now, selective V/LA and replacement posting is definently not a town mindset. And I think we can take the lack of a claim as nothing important TO claim, if it was, he would have said.

~~~

xvart, the order went like this (all there in thread, you should read anyways)

1. Day two, Seraphim asks Yos2 to claim who he targeted on night one
2. I had jailed Yos2 night one, so I objected to this randomly asking for a claim (which is very town sided) but I didn't know for sure if my jailkeeping blocked all incoming actions on Yos2.
3. I jail Yos2 again night two, and then come forward on day three with this information. I ask if anyone targeted Yos2 and got a 'no result' or something similiar.
4. Nobody Special confirms this
5. Seraphim now looks very bad, not only did he not get a result night one, but how did he know Yosarian2 was a targeting power role?
6. Votes ahoy. This wagon has disappeared mainly because Seraphim hasn't been very active at all, I still think his play here has been quite anti-town.

[Magister Ludi]

If vigilantes want to fire, I would definently reccomend from this short list.

Seraphim: Claimed power role for two days now, solid player, has done anti-town actions
SpringL: actions have definently been off, asking weird questions that don't seem townsided
DGB: half her actions here are anti-town in some way, too many contradictions to leave alive

[Magister Ludi]

Vote Seraphim

Fos: Tajo, DGB, Bunny Flameaxe

~~~~

Heord, we needs results here.

[Magister Ludi]

Whats your opinion of Flameaxe and Bunnylover?

[Magister Ludi]

Solid town or cult?

[Magister Ludi]

Darox, you have read the entire thread, or only twenty pages?

And you aren't willing to vote Flameaxe because he is really town to you (why?), ok, who else do you think is cult?

~~~

eh, saying its a bad thing that town eliminated a cult recruiter is just... weird. My vote could definitely wind up here.

a. Why would you possibly say this bunny?
b. If another town member said this, how would you react?

[Magister Ludi]

The problem is, if he isn't at the bank, does that make him 100% scum, because if it doesn't, we've again outed a power role for no reason (if he is one.)

[Magister Ludi]

Well every post comes from Town, so overall, Town.

[Magister Ludi]

I thought he claimed that, which is really awesome at this stage in the game. Since bvoigt is cult recruit scum, it probably clears Darox today, and also means Batt should definently not claim where he was last night, becuase if cult want that information, we most certainly don't want to give it to them.

[Magister Ludi]

I think all the weird soft claims, (Darox, Batt, ooba, Nobody Special, DGB??) need to go as well.

[Magister Ludi]

I have no idea how the map works, I guess some roles interact with it. And unless someone references anything, I'd just roll with the punches and vote accordingly.

Go iso seraphim, I still think he is likely cult recruit at this point. Tell me what you think.

~~~
PEDIT: Herod claims (seemingly) guilty on bvoigt, and bvoigt voted you today out of the gates, I assume he isn't going to vote a buddy like that and you are town. (If you want to convince me otherwise, go ahead)

[Magister Ludi]

Sooooooo, what are we waiting for?

Vote: bvoigt

[Magister Ludi]

Not asking you to claim anything Herod, It just seemed like you had a guilty on bvoigt.

[Magister Ludi]

Hold on.

Question, how many unrecruitable roles did Flay include in last Succession mafia?

[Magister Ludi]

I'm thinking this over. If we have enough unrecruitable people claim, and heord investigates each of them down the line to confirm, and we start speedlynching and vigging through the list of non-unrecruitable people, (with other power roles helping out town), does town auto-win?

[Magister Ludi]

No, because the unrecruitable people start dying.

How? Magic?

[Magister Ludi]

That was probably a vig, no? You think kinetic cult killed springlullaby?

[Magister Ludi]

eh, I think bvoigt is cult now, something about his passive way of dealing with the supposed guilty on him:

"Is this claiming a guilty?"

doesn't ring true as a town who thinks someone is reaction testing on him.

[Magister Ludi]

Cobble, can you summarize in one sentence why you think LL is scum? I'm not seeing it over much more suspected bvoigt and friends.

[Magister Ludi]

So the thought is:

Night 0: ????
Night 1: Tanarin
Night 2: Seraphim
Night 3: bvoigt (for me anyways)

Maybe flameaxe or tajo or someone else was night one?

~~~

I can see any of the players being cult now. bvoigt is probably my stronger read of the lot, so i'm more inclined to lynch there, but if no one else is seeing it, I'll wagon on to one of these others.

[Magister Ludi]

[quote=Sera"]I asked DGB to claim because I keep forgetting that she wouldn't know persay where her location was or rather the location of the person she targeted.

[/quote]

When was this ever said?

I thought you basically claimed regular tracker, how can you say that does nothing?

[Magister Ludi]

It was a toss up, you played anti-town then, but if you weren't recruited, it makes sense for the cult recruiter to try and recruit in a power-role.

I mean, I don't think the argument that you seem to be making that you can't possibly be recruited night two and thus you're not a recruit is valid. Maybe the day is wrong, but I think you're more likely than not cult at this point.

[Magister Ludi]

I'd support it, but two people I think are cult support it as well (sera and bvoigt) so maybe its not the best idea.

[Magister Ludi]

"Fun fact: I targeted Herodotus on nights 2 and 3."

Hold the phone gentlemen, this man has to be now confirmed town!!

~~~

Is no one else seeing bvoigt here as cult? I can go over things again if needed.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, share reads, yeah, that was sarcasm.

~~~~
Bunny:

1) ABR cult wants Poro cult more dead then town cult, because ABR cult can recruit the alive townies while they can not recruit Poro cult.

ABR cult was porochaz cult... what is town cult... what is this even saying??

[Magister Ludi]

How does it match his play? What do you usually see him do as town that he is doing here?

~~~~

Three days in a row? You've asked for claims three days in a row and taken heat every single day because of the way you asked, the information you had (or didn't have). I really can't fathom the forgetting part, since based on previous day responses I would think you would conceptualize what you are actually asking to avoid the same thing that occurred previously.

Yeah, thats one of the main problems I have with Seraphim, and why its quite alright to get a wagon stomping along here if others don't open up.

~~~~
DGB, bvoigt 'case' coming.

[Magister Ludi]

No, probably not. Only for the person I think is most likely cult.

Everyone can also read these players as well, they have eyes, they can see the cult juices running down.

[Magister Ludi]

huh? I know hero is not cult recruited, but i'm not sure if it works the other way around. Again, as of today, he is not cult recruited.

[Magister Ludi]

What is lolno Tajo?

[Magister Ludi]

bvoigt

Day 1

@Ludi: Why would you prefer speculation over typical scumhunting?

WIFOM? I don't really know, but I'm going to trust scumhunting over setup speculation. And Cobbler has lied about his role, IMO.

Day Four:

P. Edit: I feel like spring was more likely as a vig kill. What do you think?

According to Albert, he recruited Katsuki because Kats saw his QT during Goofbash.

As far as I know, everyone started out with a town role PM except the two cult recruiters, so there's no need for any fakeclaim flavor. And I don't even see how having govern flavor out in the open helps scum fakeclaim anyway, since like you said, there wouldn't be two governors in the same game.

He goes from strongly against setup speculation, to doing some himself.

~~

But if he claims, it gives the cult more information about what they're up against, and about whether or not they'd want to recruit him.

Day Two: He implies he doesn't want town claiming, because it lets cult know 'what they are up against'. So then this clashes directly with day one, when he wants as much information as possible:

Also, what are you talking about when you mention "the fourth faction"?

Also, is there a special flavor name for your unrecruitableness?

it is important to me that you claim it.

@Battousai: I would also like to know flavor, please. Also, will the mod tell us that xvart is unable to be lynched?

Day Four

I would be in favor of Battousai claiming where he was last night.

I think Darox should fullclaim.

~~~

VOTE: Darox, I suppose.

Crappy vote here, contrasting completely with his early persona of badgering people to help lynch Cobblerfone for a variety of different reasons. Also, where did the cobble suspicion disappear to? This is a vast difference in game play from early to late game. Its not like cobble is dead on confirmed town to you now, et your suspicion is gone, as is your lynch energy

~~~

Is this claiming a guilty?

A very tepid way to responding to something most of us assumed was a guilty. This reads like he is read to give up and self vote, I would expect town, upon seeing the same thing he did, to come straight out as very confrontational about a 'guilty' they knew would be false, or claim something that made it plausable. He knew he couldn't call Herod cult, though, so he didn't have many options, and the one he choose doesn't show town mindset

just ISO'ed Tanarin, and his play has been scummier than I expected

Blows off the 'guilty' immdeiatly as if it doesn't exist, for some WIFOM stew right here on another player, Tanarin.

Well, even if he did claim a guilty on me, I wouldn't be convinced he's scum.

However, when Herod does say it wasn't a guilty, he makes sure to say what he would or would not have done. Several posts later he gets around to it, with some other speculation.

[Magister Ludi]

I've given up on Cobbler because, the fact is, he had no chance of being recruited after that Day 1.

But your whole premise of voting him day one was that you thought he got RECRUITED night zero, thus, if you thought he was cult then, it makes no sense why you don't think he is cult anymore.

~~~~

Yeah, there is no reason for a cult to kill over recruit. A kill drops the town numbers the same as a recruit does, the major difference is that the cults numbers increase with a recruitement.

[Magister Ludi]

Vote: bvoigt

[Magister Ludi]

15 players left, up to 5 cult. If we lynch wrong and cult hit, we're at 14 players and 6 cult, which is LYLO. (not to mention the fact our vigs have been absolutely godawful this game, {if they're still aligned with town}.)

I'm almost in favor of a massclaim here.

[Magister Ludi]

Flay, I know this is unusual, but is there anyway you can force Kinetic to post more than a 'prod dodge' post once every couple of days? Town has no in game recourse to force him to post more (can't lynch), and he has no motivation to post at all (he's doing fine seemingly), and as town we can't get any headway into that slot at all

[Magister Ludi]

Why?

[Magister Ludi]

No, trying to figure out who may be scum off his interactions. Him talking >>> no talking.

Time for results old boy.

[Magister Ludi]

I don't know how people know where other players are during the night. Seriously, we have a huge map and its not at all obvious.

~~~

Anyways, Hero, I'm in favor of you claiming your targets right now. And are you in favor of a massclaim?

[Magister Ludi]

In Favor of Massclaim: (bolded)

1. Hiro Battousai
2. Bunny Lover
3. Father B. Voigt
4.

Cecily "Lambdadelta" Smith

5. Paul Cobblerfone, Unrecruitable Townie
6. Spiro Caan,
7. Flameaxe,
8. Herodotus Greco, Cop
9.

Joseph "Kinetic" Camisano, Mob Lieutenant/Stump

10.

Mr. Sam Ludi, Jailkeeper

11. John "Nobody Special" Doe
12.

Pops "ooba" Seaton, Watcher

13. Doc "Popular" Tajo
14. Anahito Xvart
15. Yosarian Johnson
16.

Mr. Zdenek

[Magister Ludi]

I put up what I thought were very good reasons to lynch bvoigt all in one post several posts ago in my iso.

I'm also going to have to take a look at the people who have flown under the radar since day one (xvart now, maybe a few others), as they grow more attractive as the days roll by.

[Magister Ludi]

meh, my bad, I thought I remembered someone claiming that way back on day one or two.

[Magister Ludi]

Lets get the massclaim started popcorn style then. Unless Herod has a guilty. I repeat, claim those now.

Its also probably NOT a good idea to claim unrecruitable if you are, in fact, unrecruitable. Just claim whatever role you are minus that information.

Anyway, you already know my role. (There was also some minor favor about being unable to jail the cult recruiters because the residence was

too hot to handle for anyone acting alone

{whatever that means, probably nothing/ useless flavor})

I prefer we go popcorn style. I choose next bvoigt.

[Magister Ludi]

Yeah, ooba, Yosarian got the ol' jail treatment on nights one through four.

[Magister Ludi]

What is going on in this game? Are people ducking the massclaim for some reason? What is the reason. Why has bvoigt got so few votes?

[Magister Ludi]

Awesome, so we had two doctors on hero despite the fact I claimed he wasn't recruited.

[Magister Ludi]

My targets were DGB on N1, and Herodotus on N2-N4.

protected dgb n1
protected hero all following nights
i was rbed yesterday

Lol.

[Magister Ludi]

bvogit, get in here and answer the mans claim for information on you.

Minimal talking otherwise.

[Magister Ludi]

ConSpiracy, we held up the mass claim for you to ask that question. Why? Was it important? What's going on inside your head?

[Magister Ludi]

Eh, I'm not sure its actually such a bad thing. I think Flay balanced this game for the power roles to be able to combat two cults, and the fact we have knocked one out has probably swung the power-role balance to our side (though two did die last night). We may be able to bust kinetic if we can co-ordiante these things.

Its good to have Yosarian back!

Whats your take on bvoigt? I know he claimed unrecruit, but do you think he is lying and cult?

I'm not sure why conspiracy wanted extra information, so i'm waiting on that from him.

Also, from someone who claimed already,

does your role pm make any mention of being unable to action on Kinetic because his residence is 'too hot to handle for a single officer {your role} acting alone

?

[Magister Ludi]

Actually, I forgot another potential cop died on day one.

Herod, I am still waiting on results here.

[Magister Ludi]

How about the subsequent nights, like 2,3 and four?

[Magister Ludi]

Unvote

[Magister Ludi]

Hold on here folks. For myself;

CLAIMS

1. Hiro Battousai

Vigilante

2. Bunny Lover

VT

3. Father B. Voigt

Cult Doctor

4. Cecily "Lambdadelta" Smith

Unrecruitable Cult Doctor

5. Paul Cobblerfone,

Bomb (Kills Killer)

6. Spiro Caan,
7. Flameaxe,
8. Herodotus Greco,

Cop

9. Joseph "Kinetic" Camisano,

Mob Lieutenant/Stump

10. Mr. Sam Ludi,

Jailkeeper

11. John "Nobody Special" Doe
12. Pops "ooba" Seaton,

Watcher

13. Doc "Popular" Tajo

Doctor

14. Anahito Xvart

Townie

15. Yosarian Johnson

Irrelevant

16. Mr. Zdenek

50% Doctor

Vote: Flameaxe

[Magister Ludi]

I'm not sure how well it will go, but I do believe we have a chance to break the game by using our roles (which is also why I wanted a massclaim yesterday, hindsight 20/20 with three extra power roles I guess)

We have herod claim the rest of his innocents (or claim you have no more results, I guess, in which case this plan is not as effective). We have heord investigate the claimed unrecruitable cult doc, have some protective roles on them as well, as well as vig's hitting from lists of unconfirmed. I think this plan has a high chance to work, even assuming 5 cult members with power.

[Magister Ludi]

I think I actually need to reread this, as a few of the people who I thought were acting anti-town and cultish flipped town.

I'll reread.

Also,

First person to respond, which three players do

you

think should be looked at?

[Magister Ludi]

Tajo

1. Seems very aggressive and disbelieving around Darox's claim on whatever day, something I would expect cult not to do.
2. Tunneled mega hard on DGB, not sure if this is a cult tell, but I'm leaning not.
3. I missed this. Tajo, what do you mean

protected dgb n1
protected hero all following nights

i was rbed yesterday

4. I agree with him on Flameaxe, same thought process I am going to reason probably means same town alignment.
5. Probably not cult. Not going to vote him.

Xvart

1. Super active D1 when coming under a ton of heat, but realitively quiet since. What I would expect from a recruit. Over half his posts came on day one.
2.

Hell, Kinetic could have tried to recruit DGB last night and failed for one reason or another (ABR recruit already?).

Pings me. Seems cultish when mentioning on day two, when this is quite possible to have happened
3. Act stupids and asks for clarification around the triangle of Yosarian me and Seraphim claims, also doesn't appear to interested in the results. Is on both of the ABR lynches, but other than that, not much.
4.

I'm still processing the Scumputer results but based on my preliminary understanding of DGBs thought process I could probably swing for a Darox lynch.

Seems to deflect thinking off himself, also plans to vote Darox weakly here.
5. Several long walls intersperesed with nothing, my thought process is he is doing this so he can pile a lot of typing into one post and look active.
6. Feel and pushes read cultish.

Unvote
Vote: xvart

Zdenek

1. will do him at a later time, especially since I think xvart is an awesome lynch right now.

[Magister Ludi]

Why is no one else on this xvart lynch wagon with me and Cobble?

[Magister Ludi]

Cult will always attempt to recruit over killing anything.

And xvart needs attention guys.

[Magister Ludi]

Hello, I'd like to hear more opinion on xvart. Am I voting town? Do you agree with me that he is cult? Put some reads out there people,

[Magister Ludi]

meh, I could really see zdenek, put I still prefer xvart here.

This is where I stand on xvart from his actions (nevermind that I disagree with some of the stuff he posted)

Facts:

1. Day one, came under heavy attack.
2. About Half his posts are from day one
3. Has posted the other half over the remaining four days
4. Has taken to posting larger 'catch-up' style posts in the interim

I think it is likely he was recruited just because he came under such heavy attack, and has sat around and not acted the same because he didn't espect to re-draw any heat. I also think his posting style is more indicative of cult wanting to comment on the game than town wanting to piece it together and break it apart.

[Magister Ludi]

I'd rather put of vig talk until later in the day if nessesary. (preferably never, but seeing as the vig's haven't hit a scum yet, some help may be needed)

[Magister Ludi]

Batt, I only say that because out of 8 potential vig shots we've hit one cult (or going to be, apparently). Town has lynched cult on two out of four days, with help albiet.

~~~

I am not sure if xvart is or is not a night zero recruit, what I am fairly sure about is that he is cult here, there has been a deviation in play, and should be lynched accordingly.