TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Zinger2099]

Earl Hickey present.

[Zinger2099]

You know that guy you see going into the convenience store when you stop off at that little town on the way to grandma's house? A sort of shifty looking fella who buys a pack of smokes, a couple of lotto scratchers and a tall boy at ten in the morning? The kind of guy you wait for to come out before you and your family go in? Well, that guy is me. My name is Earl. And if you took the time to really get to know me, find out what kind of person I truly am instead of just stereotyping me because of the way I look, well, you'd be wasting your time, because I'm exactly who you think I am. Hell, I'll pretty much steal anything that isn't nailed down.

[Zinger2099]

I am going to vig Zinger tonight. Anyone have a problem with this?

I do.

[Zinger2099]

@Zinger

– are you going to do any actual scum-hunting this game as opposed to just paraphrasing flavor from “My Name is Earl”?

Yes.

[Zinger2099]

Zinger-------> Null/Scum - I don't see any attempt to actually get in the game yet and I didn't like his reaction to being "shot"

Why?

[Zinger2099]

You know that guy you see going into the convenience store when you stop off at that little town on the way to grandma's house? A sort of shifty looking fella who buys a pack of smokes, a couple of lotto scratchers and a tall boy at ten in the morning? The kind of guy you wait for to come out before you and your family go in? Well, that guy is me. My name is Earl. And if you took the time to really get to know me, find out what kind of person I truly am instead of just stereotyping me because of the way I look, well, you'd be wasting your time, because I'm exactly who you think I am. Hell, I'll pretty much steal anything that isn't nailed down.

You can't be him because My Name Is....

Wait a minute. I see what you did there.

Vote: Zinger

!

If you are claiming to be Earl Hickey, you are lying.

Vote: PeregrineV

Lynch all liars!

[Zinger2099]

You can stay in character, but I'd likes your thoughts on..well anything that's happened so far.

Fair enough.

ZeL1nk is clearly holding grudges across from a previous game. He really shouldn't do that, and it is definitely not helpful to the town if he carries on with that behavior.

I think Vifam has some explaining to do. He looks like he is trying to find excuses to point fingers, which is what scum do. He said he didn't like my reaction to 'being shot', well I want to know why he didn't like it, and what would be a more acceptable reaction. Should I have approved of ZeL1nk's decision to try to shoot me tonight?

Peregrine might have been counter-claiming me (I am not 100% sure, his post is vague), but if he was indeed attempting to counter-claim me, it is a lie and he is scum.

Everything else is a null-tell, but I will be targeting ZeLink tonight.

That is enough from me for now.

[Zinger2099]

I hold no grudge. Zinger won me that game.

Then why you want to kill me?

[Zinger2099]

ZeL1nk is clearly holding grudges across from a previous game. He really shouldn't do that, and it is definitely not helpful to the town if he carries on with that behavior.

That’s a pretty ridiculous premise … if anyone has reason to hold a grudge from Superhero Mafia it is me not Zel1nk who directly benefitted from your play.

It is hardly ridiculous at all. Look at the facts: ZeL1nK claimed he would kill me Night 1 before I had said ANYTHING in this game what-so-ever. Therefor, the only motivation for him having said that MUST be something from a previous game, because there was nothing in this game as of yet to bring him to that decision.

I see no other explanation, and ZeL1nK has yet to offer up one.

Also,

unvote

.

[Zinger2099]

@ZeL1Nk, problem?

Something doesn't sit right with you.

In the last game you tunnel visioned MoI like hell. In this game your doing nothing. Why?

Uh, because in the last game I mistook MoI's "cop confidence" for "scum confidence". It's surprising how those two generate similar effects.

And as for this game, I haven't done nothing so when you take the time to actually comment on what I have done, maybe I will take the time to have an answer for you.

[Zinger2099]

Jil hasn't been replaced yet, right?

MOD: no, I have been having problems with finding replacements in games lately.

*gasp* JT! YOU'RE ALLIVE?!







*snicker*

[Zinger2099]

Says he's done 'not nothing' ... ... Actually you have done nothing.

If I had done nothing, there would have been nothing for you to summarize and comment on. You can't have it both ways.

[Zinger2099]

No, Zinger, you're not doing anything.

You are wrong.

Now you could say I wasn't doing anything

helpful

(which would be an opinion), but I am still posting. That

IS

doing something.

I hope you feel like your bashing your head against a brick wall. That is totally what I am going for.

[Zinger2099]

@Junpei, it's Day 1. Gimme a break. I see nothing that isn't just people jumping to conclusions or circumstantial.

Day 1 cases are almost always a flop. All that really matters is that we keep people talking so there is something to look back at during the following days.

[Zinger2099]

You know that guy you see going into the convenience store when you stop off at that little town on the way to grandma's house? A sort of shifty looking fella who buys a pack of smokes, a couple of lotto scratchers and a tall boy at ten in the morning? The kind of guy you wait for to come out before you and your family go in? Well, that guy is me. My name is Earl. And if you took the time to really get to know me, find out what kind of person I truly am instead of just stereotyping me because of the way I look, well, you'd be wasting your time, because I'm exactly who you think I am. Hell, I'll pretty much steal anything that isn't nailed down.

I'm really truly surprised more people aren't noticing this. I mean, yeah, he foolishly claimed, but the paragraph of claiming reads more like an anti-town role.

A-hem.
http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0017461/quotes

It's the first one on the page.

[Zinger2099]

Chevre's wall post strikes me as the kind of wall post a lurker scum would make after her scumbuddies prodded her and said "hey, you're lurking too much!"

vote: Chevre

[Zinger2099]

@chkballin, not sure yet.

@Rodion, I won't change my behaviour for anyone but myself, least of all you. My behaviour is NOT anti-town, it simply hasn't been pro-town. For me to be anti-town I would have to be doing something to hinder the town's progress or help mafia win. My lack of helpful content does neither, it simply isn't pro-town.

@Leonshade, because I don't know who I should be helping yet. I am keeping my opinions too myself until I do. Also, I am being annoying because I am annoyed, and because it is beneficial for my role to keep myself on people's hate-list (just not too high on it that I end up getting lynched...it's a very delicate balance).

[Zinger2099]

Simple: if you're town, you shouldn't be helping anyone. You don't hold your opinions to yourself. The town needs as much information as possible.

And if I'm not town?

[Zinger2099]

Now you're just trying to tick me off.

[Zinger2099]

Honestly, I didn't even think a townslip was even possible. Scumslip, sure, but townslip?

I am mighty curious myself as to what they are talking about.

[Zinger2099]

Activity doesn't count for everything Meran.

@Chevre, I was speaking hypothetically.

@Vezok and ThAdmiral, rather presumptuous of both of you to think you know what my win condition is.

[Zinger2099]

Zinger2009, are you town? It's a simple yes/no question.

No, I'm not.

I'm

SELF

.

[Zinger2099]

Zinger, you're focusing discussion on yourself in a completely useless way, which helps because I am suspecting the people attacking you. You have my gratitude.

I am not intentionally focusing discussion on myself. I would rather slip under the radar, personally. But alas, I'm just not used to playing self-aligned roles.

[Zinger2099]

Zinger2009, are you town? It's a simple yes/no question.

No, I'm not.

I'm

SELF

.

What is this supposed to mean? Are you trying to claim SK or Survivor?

No. I am neither.

[Zinger2099]

@Zinger- Than the more important question is "Do you win with town?". Otherwise, you know that it won't end well for you.

My win-con is such that I can win and exit the game prior to it even ending for the rest of you, if I achieve a certain goal. I don't kill anybody, so I can actually win without having any real effect on the rest of the game.

I'm not a threat to town or mafia. You guys play your game and I will play mine and everybody is happy (except the team among you that loses, sucks to be them).

This is also why I haven't been overly helpful (but wasn't exactly trying to get on everyone's bad side either). I don't want to be lynched, and I don't want mafia to think I am a threat. Just leave me alone and I'll

hopefully

be out of your hair before you know it (if I get lucky in who I target).

[Zinger2099]

@Junpei, I am not bad for the town. In fact, you wasting time on me and not hunting mafia is bad for the town. According to my claim, I have the ability to win before the game is over, so it is safe to say that if we reach LyLo (or even LyLo -1) and I haven't yet won, that I no longer have the ability to do so. Why not wait and see if my claim pans out and if not then lynch me then?

Unless you are mafia and jumping for joy at the fact that you now have a legitimate non-town to go after other than your fellow mafia buddies. This to me seems more likely than your failed logic as to why you want me lynched.

unvote, vote: Junpei

.

Technically speaking, I am not bad for either alignment. There is one player who probably doesn't want me around because if I win it will neutralize that person's role, but I have no idea if that person is town or mafia or another self. That's the only person who should have just cause to want me out of the game. Perhaps that is you?

[Zinger2099]

Zinger claimed 3rd-party, I don't see the harm in wanting to know more about his claim: it's not like we're outing a town PR. I'm also curious about the logic behind people claiming Zinger "townslipped".

I would also like to know how I townslipped.

[Zinger2099]

Any time spent on me is time wasted towards your own win conditions. If I am to win I should be out of the game before the end of it, and if I am not I probably can't win (my target is likely dead).

My role is similar to what Peregrine quoted, though not the same. I also don't leave the game after a set period of time as far as I can tell, I only leave if I win.

In any event, for those of you who are town out there, I would be extremely suspicious of the people who are pushing my lynch so hard. I might not be town, but I am also not against the town. Your enemy is the mafia, and any time spent focusing on me is time spent ignoring your true threat.

For that matter, the same goes for the mafia. It would be wasteful of you to waste a night kill on me. Though, I can see why pushing for my lynch (as I am sure some of you are) is a good idea from your standpoint.

[Zinger2099]

I don't want

flinger

to win, he doesn't deserve to win.

This part really bugs me. What makes you think you "deserve" to win anymore than I do? I am playing towards my own personal win-con, and just because it's not the same as YOUR win-con doesn't mean I don't deserve to win. You're really arrogant buster.

[Zinger2099]

Alright, alright, if it is a fullclaim you all want...

I am a Self-Aligned Jailkeeper. Each night I can target someone and jail them. They are both roleblocked and protected that night. I can only do this to each player once.

If I target a specific player, they are instead permanently roleblocked and I am removed from the game with a win.

If that player dies before I get a chance to do this I can no longer win (but remain in the game until it ends or I die).

The flavor is such that I have a deal with the local jail warden (he owes me a favor). He locks up people I chose so I can go into their homes and rob them while they aren't home. A certain someone has something in their home which will be extremely valuable and allows me to give up my life of crime and live the big life.

[Zinger2099]

I am a jailkeeper. Which means I also protect my targets, but I guess that's not something worth considering for you guys.

I've noticed the majority of players on this website are overconfident and arrogant and rude. I much prefer the other website I play on. The playerbase here sucks.

But alas, you do have a higher activity rate here. It's a shame really.

By the way, I've been lying to you all. I'm actually the town doctor.

Except I'm not, that was a lie. Or was it?

Your mom said hi.

[Zinger2099]

My responses in

red

.

@Zinger,

What happens if someone investigates your alignment?

I would probably come up as Self, I guess.

What would someone get if they rolecopped you?

It would say I was a Jailkeeper.

Do you find out if the person with the 'item' you want dies? I don't know. Do you have any indication of whether that 'item' belongs to town/scum/other?

I am told it is either Town, Mafia, or another Self that possesses what I need to win.

ftr, I'm not entirely sure it's worth lynching Zinger today.

I'd rather someone like izak goes.

Lynching Zinger is almost too easy.

[Zinger2099]

EWOP: The "I don't know" above should also be red and bolded.

[Zinger2099]

I don't like you MagnaofIllusion. You are arrogant, irritating, rude, and an all around ass. This has nothing to do with how I am playing this game or any other. It has nothing to do with the fact that I may not stand much of a chance at winning in this game right now. It is simply your personality, and nothing else, that has brought me to this conclusion.

So you can go fuck yourself. And I mean that personally, not with regards to what is happening in this game.

[Zinger2099]

Zinger situation:

Now that Zinger has claimed an anti-town third party role, I'm comfortable with him being the lynch for the day.

I did not claim an anti-town third party role. You are distorting the facts.

Refusal to acknowledge the facts means you are either an idiot or scum. Probably the later.

[Zinger2099]

Of course, if you can't beat them join them, right? The meta on this site is to act like an arrogant rude prick, and you can't really get by unless you abide by that social code.

[Zinger2099]

I'm sorry that your silly gambit didn't work out for you but there's no reason to have all these emotional bursts in thread. Take it to PMs or counseling.

I'm only responding in kind to the way others have acted. If you don't like the heat, why did you turn on the oven?

I am using 'you' in a general sense.

Meh, it's of little consequence. I'm not taking this game seriously anyway. If you think I am upset because half the town is voting me, well... I'm not even really upset at all. I just think certain players here (a lot of them) are assholes and need a reality check. And I am entitled to my opinion.

[Zinger2099]

Mk.

Moderator I request a replacement of Zlinger2099 for continual bashing of players and mafiascum in general, he also expresses no care for the game itself. He is harming the game in a way that isn't even anti-town so much as anti-fun.

This is what I am talking about. Look at the arrogance in this statement.

You should trust your mod to do his job and shouldn't tell him how you think it should be done.

All these requests for other players to be replaced, what right do you have to demand someone else be forcibly removed from the game? None.

[Zinger2099]

It was more of a message to Zlinger to straighten up and stop being such a 'dick' than an actual replacement request.

You're using requests to the mod to make a point?

It's not like me telling him to stop being so mean had any effect, if this is something that is considered rude then I apologize as I haven't heard of that before, but I used the mod request to pressure Zlinger and get him off his high horse.

Pot calling the kettle black.

I'm pissed off because you (and others like you) are on a high horse.

Get off your high horse if you want me to stop being a dick. It's the only way I will comply with your request.

[Zinger2099]

I don't even care, fine I"ll get off my high horse, now will you post content and explain why you think it was a good idea for you to claim what you did?

I thought that if the mafia team believed I wasn't a threat to them I could fly under their radar while I either roleblock them (if I had a good idea of who they might be) or protect town players (if I didn't have a clue who might be scum).

I'm just a standard town Jailkeeper. It was all a fakeclaim. You can lynch me for lying now.

[Zinger2099]

I don't even care, fine I"ll get off my high horse, now will you post content and explain why you think it was a good idea for you to claim what you did?

I thought that if the mafia team believed I wasn't a threat to them I could fly under their radar while I either roleblock them (if I had a good idea of who they might be) or protect town players (if I didn't have a clue who might be scum).

I'm just a standard town Jailkeeper. It was all a fakeclaim. You can lynch me for lying now.

To self: "Oh shit it didn't work! Fuck!"

To all: "I'm a frustrated townie, I hate you all /insult"

To self: "Not working..?"

To all: "I'm town JK! Hahaha that was wifom!"

So.... you were lying when you said you would get off your high horse? Gotcha. I'll take note of the fact that now you're not only an arrogant prick, but also a liar.

[Zinger2099]

I hope that this site will eventually show him the ropes to being a competitive mafia player.

You only learn by making mistakes pal.

I use these forums to do all the stupid things I would never consider doing on the other forums where I play mafia so that I can see first hand why doing that is a bad idea without screwing with my rep on the site that I take the game seriously.

Also, something about the format or layout of these boards makes it so that I can't look at it for an extended period of time without feeling dizzy, so I couldn't really play seriously here if I wanted to. All I can ever do is skim reads.

[Zinger2099]

@MOD

, hey JT, you're awesome. Enjoyed the game, really. ^_^ Much as I don't want to be replaced, it seems 90% of your players have a fixation on me and refuse to play the game properly until I am out of the picture.

For that reason, and that reason alone, you have my permission to replace me, if you feel you

need

to.

Alternatively, you could just replace everyone else who has a gripe with me. XD

Or you could replace nobody and see what happens. I am very curious to see the outcome myself, so you have my thumbs up to this option as well if you prefer.

Do whatever you feel is best, but above all, do whatever you feel is most entertaining.

Regardless, I think you are a stand-up mod and should definitely keep making games.

[Zinger2099]

unvote

[Zinger2099]

@Leonshade, it's all good. I wouldn't expect you to.

[Zinger2099]

@Leonshade, it's all good. I wouldn't expect you to.

Now I have to ask

If you would expect someone to vote you after lying about your claim, when why would you do what you did?

I didn't think the truth behind my lie would come out until I had already done my service towards helping the town at least 3 or 4 nights in a row (thus, perhaps justifying the lie), and by that point it wouldn't have mattered if I died (as I would have hopefully severely set back the scum team).

Of course that didn't pan out at all like I planned. Oh well, these things happen. When you make a gambit, you have to be prepared to have it blow up in your face.

[Zinger2099]

Also @ zinger: I apologize about being rude before. I posted in anger which I don't normally do.

Given that you say you are town now can you please full claim your role?

Yeah, I apologize for being rude too. I normally don't do that.

I just found that MS.net has a resounding aura of overconfidence, huge egos, and arrogance. It's something I am not used to and also don't really agree with. When I first saw players do stuff like "@MOD, can you replace Guy1 because he isn't being productive as town," I swear I almost flipped on the person right then and there. People have the right to play how they desire. Who's to say your way is better than their way? And furthermore, their win-con might be totally different from yours, which might justify lynching them for the odd behaviour, but replacing them? The way people would insult others so casually and say "well you're an idiot and don't know how to play Mafia," was completely befuddling to me. I mean, in the other forums I play on, if someone clearly doesn't understand what he's doing we encourage that new player and give him advice on not only how he can do better, but why it is a good idea to do this and that and such. I mean, we're all here because we share an interest in the same game. I can't understand where some people get off ripping on someone else who is here for the same reason they are.

I don't care if MS.net is supposedly the best mafia forums around, the people here (and I know I am generalizing, there are obvious people here who don't fit that persona) have given me a horrible first impression of it. Just because you are a member of the most prestigious mafia forums and you've been here for years and can quote theory out the wazoo doesn't make you any better than the noob who started playing his first game 2 hours ago. I'm not just talking for myself either, as I usually don't care when somebody is a dick to me, but I can't stand watching people 'bully' others.

Bottom line, people here have huge egos (a fact some of you would even admit), and I can't stand people like that. Show some humility.

/endrant

As for my full claim: I am what I said, a regular town jailkeeper.

[Zinger2099]

I don't care if MS.net is supposedly the best mafia forums around, the people here (and I know I am generalizing, there are obvious people here who don't fit that persona) have given me a horrible first impression of it. Just because you are a member of the most prestigious mafia forums and you've been here for years and can quote theory out the wazoo doesn't make you any better than the noob who started playing his first game 2 hours ago. I'm not just talking for myself either, as I usually don't care when somebody is a dick to me, but I can't stand watching people 'bully' others.

/disagree

This isn't strictly game relevant, but it needs to be said. If you start playing soccer, and kick the ball into the wrong goalposts, you are "doing it wrong", and any other player would be justified in getting angry at you for it. It's the same situation here. Obviously, there is a greater variety of ways that you can play mafia than many other games, but the reality is that, from a theory standpoint, certain modes of play are far superior (in the sense of likely to advance a win con) than others.

The "it's just a game" excuse really doesn't wash when you take into account the fact that for those of us who have a serious commitment to this game, it can be something like three hours a day stretching over a period of months per game. Surely you can see why we get annoyed when we see a newcomer not taking the game seriously and, effectively, causing us to waste our time. It's not that the people on MS.net are more arrogant or bullying, it's that we take the game far more seriously than other sites.

/disagree

There is a distinct difference between telling someone they are doing something wrong, and being an arrogant asshole. In your soccer example, sure the teammates might be miffed that one of their team kicked the ball into the wrong goal, but they aren't going to throw that teammate to the ground and kick him and say "I don't ever want to play soccer with you again," nor will they go to the referee and say "can you kick him off the team because he kicked the ball into the wrong goal?"

That is not taking the game more seriously, that's being an asshole.

[Zinger2099]

3) Rodion, does claiming JK, a ROLEBLOCKER, make any sense as town?

Sorry, but are you actually using a role-argument to insinuate alignment?

Even if I had claimed full on Roleblocker, what difference would it make? Just because it might be more commonly a scum role, doesn't mean it is in this game.

That's a terrible argument.

[Zinger2099]

And for the record, the Jailkeeper role was originally created as a fix to the Doctor (to prevent the powerful Doc-Cop combo), so while it does Roleblock people, it spawned from the Doctor, not the Roleblocker. I don't see how being a Jailkeeper makes you more likely to be scum in any way.

[Zinger2099]

Raising the 'possibility' of a gambit is an enormous stretch. Zinger hasn't claimed it was a gambit, and the way he has dealt with it (repeated backflips, anger and now contrition) are completely at odds with gambiting behaviour. Also, you ignore the prospect that this is actually a gambit from zinger-scum

Actually I did claim it was a gambit. Just saying.

[Zinger2099]

@ZeL1nK, can you sum up why this Izak character is scummy? I am looking at his ISO now and nothing is catching my eye.

[Zinger2099]

@ zinger: full claim with flavor pls?

I am a reformed criminal. After being hit by a car and my wife leaving me for another man I discovered the value of Karma, and decided to change my life by making a list of things I needed to do to atone for my past behaviour. It doesn't really explain why I am a jailkeeper.

Jailkeeper CAN'T be a scum role. So claiming jailkeeper is opportunistically scummy. Not saying that you are, just giving my general opinion.

Yes it can. Why would you say that it can't?

When I initially developed a scum read on him, it was after his comment about vollkan's style of scum hunting, which started setting off alarms. I found it quite funny that he was criticising someone's method of scum hunting when he had done

absolutely no scum hunting himself

. At the time, he had his vote on Vifam because "But Vifam really sticks out like a sore thumb here, and is still a few votes off of lynching". No reasoning as to why he found Vifam suspicious, just that Vifam stuck out like a sore thumb. Vote stays on Vifam for the rest of the early game while making a few comments here and there.

My major problem with izak is something you can't catch from skimming through his ISO because you're not looking at his posts contextually. He ignores a lot of the things that are happening in this game, and comments only on the popular bandwagons (Vifam first, Meransiel second, Zinger third). For example, all of his posts where he talks about Zinger after he votes for him are posts in which he's ignoring a large amount of discussion that's going on in the game, ignoring people's suspicions of him, etc.

Good enough for me.

vote: izakthegoomba

.

Zinger - why should I (or anybody else) trust you to play to your win-con (if you're town or 3rd party), given you've already made it clear you're not opposed to doing stupid things

just to see what happens

?

You (or anybody else) shouldn't trust me. I have done nothing to offset the lies that I have made, or things I have said. I fully expect to be lynched for my actions.

Of course, just because you shouldn't trust me, doesn't make me the best choice for a lynch at this moment. What is worse, the person who admits to having lied as part of a failed gambit, or the one who is still currently lying to your face in order to kill you later?

Spoiler: Non-Game Related: Zinger v vollkan

I don't care if MS.net is supposedly the best mafia forums around, the people here (and I know I am generalizing, there are obvious people here who don't fit that persona) have given me a horrible first impression of it. Just because you are a member of the most prestigious mafia forums and you've been here for years and can quote theory out the wazoo doesn't make you any better than the noob who started playing his first game 2 hours ago. I'm not just talking for myself either, as I usually don't care when somebody is a dick to me, but I can't stand watching people 'bully' others.

/disagree

This isn't strictly game relevant, but it needs to be said. If you start playing soccer, and kick the ball into the wrong goalposts, you are "doing it wrong", and any other player would be justified in getting angry at you for it. It's the same situation here. Obviously, there is a greater variety of ways that you can play mafia than many other games, but the reality is that, from a theory standpoint, certain modes of play are far superior (in the sense of likely to advance a win con) than others.

The "it's just a game" excuse really doesn't wash when you take into account the fact that for those of us who have a serious commitment to this game, it can be something like three hours a day stretching over a period of months per game. Surely you can see why we get annoyed when we see a newcomer not taking the game seriously and, effectively, causing us to waste our time. It's not that the people on MS.net are more arrogant or bullying, it's that we take the game far more seriously than other sites.

/disagree

There is a distinct difference between telling someone they are doing something wrong, and being an arrogant asshole. In your soccer example, sure the teammates might be miffed that one of their team kicked the ball into the wrong goal, but they aren't going to throw that teammate to the ground and kick him and say "I don't ever want to play soccer with you again," nor will they go to the referee and say "can you kick him off the team because he kicked the ball into the wrong goal?"

That is not taking the game more seriously, that's being an asshole.

/agrees with vollkan

It's the World Cup. Player X's team has been awarded a penalty kick, and the score is 0-0.

Player X steps up to take the penalty, but decides to take it with his eyes closed to see what happens - because he's always wanted to do that, but he doesn't want to tarnish his club perfect penalty record - which is why now, at the World Cup, is the perfect opportunity. He's never really cared about international football anyway.

This is essentially your justification:

I use these forums to do all the stupid things I would never consider doing on the other forums where I play mafia so that I can see first hand why doing that is a bad idea without screwing with my rep on the site that I take the game seriously.

Player X runs, slips and (in his blind flailing) only manages a weak contact with the side of the ball. The ball harmlessly wobbles out for a goal kick.

Player X's international team-mates would be COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED in getting fucking furious with him.

~ Hoppster

In your given example, yes the team-mates would be furious. But this is hardly the World Cup of Mafia games. This is backyard soccer at best. I hope you can appreciate how your example is hardly consistent with the circumstances. I say again: sure the teammates might be miffed that one of their team kicked the ball into the wrong goal, but they aren't going to throw that teammate to the ground and kick him and say "I don't ever want to play soccer with you again," nor will they go to the referee and say "can you kick him off the team because he kicked the ball into the wrong goal?" You won't see that behaviour in any kind of soccer game, not even professional ones. I have seen that kind of behaviour here.

[Zinger2099]

Yes it can. Why would you say that it can't?.

Because...*facepalms*...scum need only roleblock people. Not protect them. Unless one mafia jails another in order to protect him from a SK or something.

*facepalms*

I have been in games where scum had protective roles. Scum can need protection, from becoming Vig targets.

[Zinger2099]

Yes it can. Why would you say that it can't?.

Because...*facepalms*...scum need only roleblock people. Not protect them. Unless one mafia jails another in order to protect him from a SK or something.

*facepalms*

I have been in games where scum had protective roles. Scum can need protection, from becoming Vig targets.

Mafia doctor =/= Mafia jailkeeper.

You do realize that if a scum team is reduced to 2 players, one of them a jailer, and decides to use his protect, they basically lose their night kill?

So? there are plenty of roles that generally become harder to use/useless for scum once they are reduced to 2 or 1 player. At that point, the jailkeeper basically just becomes a roleblocker. There's nothing weird or wrong about that.

[Zinger2099]

Also notice how Zinger is derailing the thread with you, this topic of game theory this early is worthless.

I am not derailing the thread. The theory we are discussing is pertinent to the current situation and has merit to be discussed.

[Zinger2099]

Also notice how Zinger is derailing the thread with you, this topic of game theory this early is worthless.

I am not derailing the thread. The theory we are discussing is pertinent to the current situation and has merit to be discussed.

Whether or not there is a mafia jail keeper shouldn't be relevant to you as you believe yourself to be a town jail keeper correct?

You make a valid point. I concede to your argument.

[Zinger2099]

Also, think about this: is a 4th player run up to lynch and having to claim a better or worse thing than losing an actual jailer? Well?

Worse, however Zinger has claimed third party JK and that makes no sense whatsoever. I want to...

Hear from Zinger on why he thought that town would let a third party roleblocker not get hanged?

I came up with a win-con that doesn't stop the Town from winning (and at worst case scenario only makes them lose on PR). I thought town wouldn't waste time going after someone who wasn't actively trying to prevent them from winning, and would instead use their time to find the mafia team (their true enemy).

[Zinger2099]

Also, think about this: is a 4th player run up to lynch and having to claim a better or worse thing than losing an actual jailer? Well?

Worse, however Zinger has claimed third party JK and that makes no sense whatsoever. I want to...

Hear from Zinger on why he thought that town would let a third party roleblocker not get hanged?

I came up with a win-con that doesn't stop the Town from winning (and at worst case scenario only makes them lose on PR). I thought town wouldn't waste time going after someone who wasn't actively trying to prevent them from winning, and would instead use their time to find the mafia team (their true enemy).

But... you aren't talking about the flip side of the coin, and that is that you aren't trying to stop mafia from winning either. You are roleblocking whoever you please with no guidance, you really don't think that we'd see that as dangerous?

Not as dangerous as the mafia who are actively trying to stop Town. Also, i did say I can only target each person once.

Honestly I did not anticipate the reaction everyone gave me. I still don't fully understand why they reacted so strongly. But alas, live and learn.

[Zinger2099]

I think it's too early to determine his partners if he has any, I really can't tell you that, I need to analyze the situation more and it isn't something I can do before Zinger dies d1.

This. I don't like this post, it smells funny.

I agree (and not just because it implicates me). I have thought all along that Junpei's focus on me has always been a vote of convenience.

As time passed and I gave him more to work with, he gained more credibility, but his initial vote had very little momentum.

And the fact that he is willing to kill someone before analyzing the situation surrounding that person in detail is certainly suspect.

[Zinger2099]

@ZeL1nK, if I somehow survive the Day 1 lynch, do you still intend to Vig me tonight?

[Zinger2099]

@MOD, I believe I am voting Izak.

Fixed, sorry I missed that one. Lack of caffeine!

[Zinger2099]

@MOD, V/LA until Monday.

[Zinger2099]

Actually, make that Tuesday, just in case (will probably be back Monday though).

[Zinger2099]

Also, to reiterate the question:

Zinger, why did you lie and say that you use this site as your testing ground to do things that you wouldn't do on other sites, when other games prove that that is not the case? What was the purpose that that lie?

It is true that I use this site as a testing grounds to learn more about the game and become better at it.

That doesn't mean I would simply do random crap to throw games for no reason. What could I possibly learn from that?

No, I still try to win. But there's always exceptions to every rule (for example, never lie as town), and here on this site I try to find that exception (to better understand the rule). That doesn't mean I just plan to throw games with no regard for my win-con or my team. You misinterpret what I meant I think.

[Zinger2099]

I prefer izak, but he's V/LA, and eh.

Worst. Vote. Ever.

Seriously, voting someone for being V/LA? What the fuck.

[Zinger2099]

and tracker is very confirmable as the days go on (unlike what Zinger claimed).

That is not true. Jailkeeper can be easily confirmed (confirmable is not a word).

[Zinger2099]

@Junpei, I have noticed you have a tendency to over simplify and exaggerate people's posts to make them look bad. Scum points.

[Zinger2099]

Zinger > Uuh, Pinky didn't vote Izak. He very specifically avoided voting Izak because he's V/LA and therefore not here to defend himself, so he went for his other main suspect, you. Or at least that's how I'm picking it up.

Not true, he voted me BECAUSE I am v/la, as opposed to Izak who isn't.

[Zinger2099]

I actually think Zinger's response to Pinky condemns him even more. He's obviously skimming at best.. this from someone claiming to want to help Town now.. :/

Actually, you are obviously skimming. You didn't take the time to understand my response before condemning me for it. What does that say about you?

[Zinger2099]

How do I go about getting scum lynched D1? Because it seems nobody is interested in doing that.

Don't worry man. On the plus side, everyone has commented on me tons throughout Day 1. My lynch will hopefully provide the town with enough clues to who is scum in the following days.

I said it early on: the most important thing about Day 1 is to keep everyone talking, so that you can later look back for clues as to their alignment. Whatever else I did, at least I did that by the ton.

[Zinger2099]

unvote, vote: silver

It's more out of slim hopes for survival than anything else, though the cases on him have some merit too.

[Zinger2099]

Also pretty sure it is 3-2-1 as well, highly doubt zinger is town. Like a 2% chance maybe.

I'll be sure to have a laugh at your expense when I flip town.

Also, to answer the question everyone's been answering:
1-3-2

@Everyone voting me:

will you pledge to eat your hat when I flip town? Kthxbai.

[Zinger2099]

In this post ZeL1nK says that he thinks my Zinger lynch is scummy. However this is odd because I did so with

a ton of self confidence

.

Of course you were. After all, as scum you can afford to be as confident as you like, right?

As town, you should always have some doubts. Being too confident is a scumtell.

[Zinger2099]

Also pretty sure it is 3-2-1 as well, highly doubt zinger is town. Like a 2% chance maybe.

I'll be sure to have a laugh at your expense when I flip town.

Also, to answer the question everyone's been answering:
1-3-2

Why do you think that you are more likely third-party than scum?

Is this a rhetorical question?

[Zinger2099]

You took what I said out of context and assumed that you understand the situation when you don't.

Like you right?

[Zinger2099]

@Everyone voting me:

will you pledge to eat your hat when I flip town? Kthxbai.

Are you attempting to dissuage people from voting for you with this? If so, it's not going to work.

No, I am attempting to ensure that the people who are blindly voting me are rightly-so embarrassed when I flip Town. Some of you (I won't name names, that's rude, you know who you are) are saying that you are 100% positive that at best I am a hostile third party and at worst, out-right mafia. Most agree that the chances of me being town is slim to none.

I just want to make sure that those of you 'expert mafia players' with ego's and the like learn a little humility when you see how wrong you are.

Not dissuading anyone from voting me in the slightest.

[Zinger2099]

ZeL1nK given what countless others have repeated and said about Zinger, Zinger is NOT an obvious mislynch, stop acting like you're allknowing.

It is unsettling when someone pretends to know more than they should.

Like you do?

[Zinger2099]

Well, if he's retracted his third party claim, then we have to accept that he has not presented any kind of justification for the kind of behavior that got him wagoned in the first place, because he's retracted the explanation he did offer.

Yes I did. My explanation is that I was trying to convince the mafia team that I wasn't a threat so that I could maximize my potential at screwing with them (via protecting a town target or roleblocking a mafia target, as a JK does).

I said this more than once. It was reiterated by others more than once. You need to re-read the thread I think.

[Zinger2099]

Your reasoning is that Zinger is so stupid that it has to be a town failed gambit because it can't be a failed scum gambit. THAT LOGIC WORKZ LOL. Face it, it makes no sense as any alignment except for possibly third party if he thought that he could lie about his role and get a free pass.

It was a poorly formed 3rdparty gambit more than a failed town gambit.

See that there? See how Junpei pretends to be all-knowing. I think he should stop pretending to know more than he does.

[Zinger2099]

I want it to be on record that I think Junpei is Mafia-Aligned, and once I flip town tomorrow everyone should gang-rape him. kthxbai.

[Zinger2099]

I want it to be on record that I think Junpei is Mafia-Aligned, and once I flip town tomorrow everyone should gang-rape him. kthxbai.

Excellent case you have there against me... And convincing last request, anyone else think that this post and others scream "mafia who has given up?". Silvers posts have a very similar ring to it, well the one where he goes "better me than him". As a lastattempt gambit, although I don't feel like Silver has the heat needed for that, it may be preemptive.

Also for the record Zlinger even if you do flip town my pride and ego won't be shaken, now stop your silly AtE and actually contribute lest you get lynched. You claim you're town? How about you do some scumhunting and actually help generate conversation ACTIVELY instead of having people talk about you and then you going "im not mafia u are idiot i hope you all die".

I am scumhunting, and my hunt tells me you are scum.

Now stop trying to discredit me just because I'm making you smell bad.

[Zinger2099]

You still haven't properly addressed my question. What have you done in other games that is as drastic as this one? You called MS your personal testing ground to do shit that you wouldn't dare do on your other forum site. I saw nothing extreme in any of those games.

EXPLAIN

In one of them I self-voted. That's a perfect example of something you should never do.

In another I was the Vig and I randomly targeted my targets to see how the results of random targeting compared to educated guesses.

[Zinger2099]

Kind of. If you are town, then from your perspective 2 and 3 should be both equally impossible.

Being Town is about as far as you can get from being Mafia. From that perspective, being Self is closer to Town than Mafia is.

But yes, I know both to be equally impossible.

[Zinger2099]

@JLunpei,

Stop calling me Zlinger. It's ZINGER.

There is no L.

[Zinger2099]

@Zinger:

If Junpei is wrong for being "allknowing" and incessantly insisting that you are scum, is ZeL1nk wrong for incessantly insisting that you are town?

I didn't notice that ZeL1nK was so incessantly insisting that I was town. I believe he thinks I am town, but I do not think he is as '100% sure' as JLunpei seems to be about my scum status.

However, if ZeL1nK did indeed insist that I am guaranteed town, this would be equally erroneous because he has no way of knowing that for sure.

I am town though.

[Zinger2099]

Asking someone who has no respect for you to do something fully for the sake of your preference is idiotic because all it will do is cause that person to not do it in spite of you.

Also answer my question.

LOL, JLunpei your so funny.

I will not answer your question until you comply with my request.

As for the 'respect' issue, well, that's a whole other can of monkeys. If you really want to get into that, I can oblige, but it won't be pretty.

Furthermore, you only make yourself look like a retard when you can't even spell someone's name right.

[Zinger2099]

No, I do not think ZeL1nK is scummy. I was simply answering someone's question. If they feel that ZeL1nK believes me to be guaranteed town, either they are wrong or ZeL1nK is. I am not guaranteed anything.

When I get lynched I will be guaranteed town.

[Zinger2099]

Which question Junpei?

[Zinger2099]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3285912

I realize now my question wasn't clear, but how does what you did in previous games escalate to this?

Also, what are your thoughts on what we said earlier regarding your flavorclaim and that whole discussion?

I approach each game differently. Does this answer your question? I don't see how my previous games have any influence on this game.

I think that whole discussion is silly. We have already established that flavour isn't the most relevant thing here. Though, Earl has been in and out of Jail himself, so I don't see how JK is that much of a stretch.

[Zinger2099]

I pretty much 100% know zinger is scum,

So, you are claiming some sort of investigative role that discerns alignments during the day?

If so, I warn you, you are paranoid!

But to everyone else: when I flip town, remember that hipaddict was 100% sure (no margin for error what-so-ever) that I was scum.

Which means he is lying.

[Zinger2099]

@MOD, why is the deadline so far away?

I am used to shorter games, where the days last about a week. Long games really throw me off. I don't have the attention span or memory required to be able to focus on 50 pages per day.

Seriously, how do any of you scumhunt with so much crap to shift through? It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

In shorter games, at least the needle is only in a small haypile.

Personally, I really hope the day ends soon, regardless of who gets lynched. Knowing some of you, I am sure someone will accuse me of being scum because I am 'trying to end the day early'. Which is silly. 55 pages is more than enough.

I am seriously fighting the urge to self-hammer. Someone just end the agony already.

[Zinger2099]

If i were to post an accurate one itd be like 80% sure you're scum/anti-town in some capacity.

Okay. Now tell me why.

[Zinger2099]

I want it to be on record that I think Junpei is Mafia-Aligned, and once I flip town tomorrow everyone should gang-rape him. kthxbai.

I'd like you to explain why you think Junpei is scum.

He first drew my attention when I felt that he was lock-jawing on me. His rebuttals to my posts appeared to be conveniently worded to not only defeat the purpose of my posts but at the same time make me look bad. I didn't follow up on this notion because I believed I was simply reacting strongly to him because he suspected me, and thus my opinion was biased.

However, when another player came along (I believe it was TheAdmiral, but don't quote me on that) and basically accused Junpei of the same things I was seeing, it solidified it in my mind that I wasn't simply seeing things that weren't there. I agreed with this person's post and continued to examine Junpei more closely from that point on.

Since then, all of his arguments have had the pretense of being logical and sound yet he seems to come to illogical conclusions. I get the same feeling from his posts that you get from, say, a car salesman who manages to convince you (through sound logic no less) as to why you should buy this car, but you can't help having a sinking feeling that he is twisting reality just to make it look the way he want's it too.

A few times he had back-up in his arguments, which at the time seemed like they might be a scumbuddy helping him out.

He is so sure of me being scum (to the point of overconfidence, which I explained to be a potential scum-factor).

A few other things here and there that made me think he was scum but I can't really remember what made me think that (it's enough that they did).

---------

I am sorry that I haven't gone back and brought forth concrete hard examples for you to look at and agree with. You have to understand though, I was not trying to convince anyone that Junpei is scum (hence the lack of a strong built case against him), I was simply telling everyone who my current top suspect is, in case that matters.

Nobody else seemed to think the same as me (some agreed with my points about Junpei but they didn't think that made him scum), so I didn't bother building a case when it became obvious that he wouldn't be lynched today. I am of the mind that you should focus on the now, and as such I decided to focus on which of the top 3 wagons (after me) that I most agreed with, rather than chase after someone I will likely never catch.

Hopefully though, when the game winds down to smaller numbers, someone will come along and re-examine Junpei's earlier posts in his ISO, and WHEN that happens, they will hopefully pick up on some of the same things that I have.

I hope this adequately answers your question?

[Zinger2099]

I wasn't angry at the world, I was angry at the abundance of arrogance I was viewing on these forums. I have said this more than once, you thought it to be untrue perhaps? Maybe you thought I was angry all the time?

I find that hard to believe considering you viewed my other games.

[Zinger2099]

I think you're town and all, but damn, cut your ego a bit? Andrew is speaking fine, if you can't understand him, well there's something wrong with you, not him. Its terribly rude to ask something like that.

This. Glad to see I'm not the only one put off by such behaviour.

[Zinger2099]

@MOD:

V/LA until Monday.

Mod: Confirmed