TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Junpei]

Anyways hello. Claim time right?

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

[Junpei]

Anyways hello. Claim time right?

I'm town tracker, nice BW putting tracker at L-2 derp.

Why would you claim unprovoked?

You're high right?

I'm at L-2 on a d1 BW in full swing with people going V/LA and I just entered the game.

[Junpei]

I'm still rereading, but killerjester, so far you have a habit of voting without giving reasoning. You've voted out of nothing just after a vote for the same person was cast.

Just putting it out there that your last bit of your post is a bit of a joke.

[Junpei]

RVS is always a joke. But it yields results so I never complain.

Not talking about that

I'm getting near the finish, would you guys like me to post my raw thoughts or would you prefer me to structure them/cross-reference/tidy it up? Either way you'll get the same basic information, the latter will just be less insightful to my mind but could be easier to understand. My raw thoughts aren't just my notes c/p, but it pretty much is (my notes c/p would be unreadable to you guys ).

[Junpei]

I'm done, I don't think that I'm going to respond to your walls in depth or anything because none were directed at me, unless there are those who want me to. I am not accustomed to such large games on forum mafia so I'm not sure what I am supposed to let you guys know. I suppose I will give you a background information summary on me.

I had 1 year of EM experience and like 2 games of Forum Mafia experience. I am very used to the fast-paced reaction based style of play and it has been strange adjusting to Forum Mafia, however I feel like I am making a pretty strong shift from the former to the latter.

I am not a fan of meta although I know that it is used by people a lot and may even catch scum. But any decent player won't give you a link to a game that will incriminate them, that's just silly. Regardless I won't insult your use of it I will even accept it and even use it myself, I just dislike dependence on it and I dislike it in general.

I'm a logic thinker, if you don't quite understand something I say ask me, I will explain to you why I said it and what it means. I would also rather people explain why they believe something to be true in detail if possible and when applicable.

Sorry I'm a bit energy deflated and I'm currently juggling several things on top of it. I need to go out and run soon, so I'd like a response from someone on #314, as I will gladly do either choice even for just 1 person. Conversation rolling is good, and I'd like to uncover people's thoughts swiftly so we can determine a lynch. Also, 1 month deadlines loldamn, I was used to 15 minute deadlines in EM.

[Junpei]

Junpei - That's a nice biography. When you complete you readthrough tell us who is scum please.

Oh, I did. And I think Killerjester, ThreeisFrench, and LeonShade is mafia. I am less sure on the third as I haven't gone into much detail as some of your posts have, but from what I can tell there is reason to suspect. I eventually will look into him more.

Meran deserves a vote for never posting, and since I have whatever vifams' random vote was I place it there for pressure. Meran isn't someone I can say is scum but I will rather vote her if it helps get content out of her.

Zlinger is suspicious for not making many good posts, I'll also eventually get around to going into detail on that if I don't get too engrossed in my other reads.

Thats what I got in my notes anyway, these people are rated rather high on my scumlist. In fact they are the top.

Hi ZeL1nK I noticed you are remaining anonymous. That will be very bad unless you promise to differentiate who is posting when you post. If I don't know which head is posting it is very difficult to read you (p.s. I hate hydras).

[Junpei]

I will provide more in depth reasoning soon, I'm going to 1) finish this marathon game I"m in (why do I even join them when I can play on EM) 2) run a bit and probably eat but I'll eat at my computer.

[Junpei]

@Junpei: I don't like posting day 1 in larges. You can ask people.

vote Meransiel

Just realized I didn't vote you

While I have you here, how about posting some content <3 because posting content is better than

not

posting content.

[Junpei]

chkballing classic scum, posting huge wall of reads. i looked at some of them 'andrew lurking scum'. thats your reason?

early claim is null

magna post 308 town tell
leon post 307 scum tell. no unvote?

lolwut

Sorry that was my reaction. Please site the posts you're referring to and be more detailed on your last two points.

[Junpei]

BW 1 is on Vezok. This can be something denoted as RVS however BWing tendencies are important and don't discount an action because it can be written off as 'random', since nothing truly is random.

BW 2 is on Jilynne1991. Is right after other votes on the same person and is accompanied with 1 sentence of reasoning that is summed up in "my last bw isn't as good".

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 0#p3244420
Votes Leon for supposedly distancing himself from a lynch? That's better than your latest BW vote? I'm starting to think that you're just voting without specific reason.

Only 1 vote has been any good and that has been your David vote. I just realized that he did explain the Leon vote but it has been rather late. His other content is very meh, I haven't gone into depth on it but once again I just entered I normally go into depth once I'm 'in the zone' and really got the scent of scum.

ThreeisFrench

RVS vote vote before this was /confirm post

votes marco for little reason at all

votes vifam purely based off of a post where he lists 8 or 9 people and his reads on them. Yeah I agree it was a pretty shitty post, however it was directly after a MoI vote on vifam. Not to mention this post has little content

he's a hydra yet still inactive as all hell. By the way WHO ARE YOUR HEADS.

another vifam vote probably from his other head, but it shows that he is BWing for the sake of sticking with the crowd. This was right after the next wave of vifam votes. It also shows that the two heads aren't sharing their reads and scumtells, possibly because they don't need to scumhunt because they are in fact scum.

Next two posts are so fluff I don't even know what URL heading I'd give them. Then,

ok. which was my reaction after reading it. He voted again because votals didn't have his name (by the way that isn't true) and because of his added evidence. The only thing he posted other than the vote was him questioning something that some nero did.

This guy has to be scum.

Leonshade is going to take more thinking later, but I am not saying I am confident in the scumread on him, I only browsed the various posts against him and I still would need to make a better judgment.

Zlinger

is easy so I'll do him quickly

First 5 posts are contentless other than a nameclaim (I don't know why but ok fine nameclaim, it's stupid but go for it. We don't know if roles name specific flavornames or not. For instance "do this to rolename A and you get ability X" is something that I've seen in marathon games that might translate to here).

Joke post I hope, otherwise it's dumb post, because mafia CCing a nameclaim that fypov is legit is stupid beyond thinking.

First post that seems contentish, because it really can't be defined as content. Grudges, Vifam BW, stupid CC, says everyone but Vifam/CC guy is null, and then says he's using his action on ZeLink. I don't understand this guy, why would you out your action and we don't even know what your action is. So telling us just hints to us that you aren't a non-visiting role which makes you a kill target. If you really are a PR (probably mafia) then you're a fool.

Then there are two posts regarding the grudge. Once again trying to push the topic offtopic and railing 'vigshots' off of him with accusations of AtE.

Says he's done 'not nothing' ... ... Actually you have done nothing.

My vote is staying on Meran though because no need to lynch scum yet, I want Meran to talk.

pedit: Scum in this case probably would claim PR, it's the only way to get the BW off, but town PR would also claim town PR. Also you shouldn't rush to lynch the new guy, I promise you that after reading this post you'll see there are better options.

[Junpei]

I am a male. Some people call me a she, I think is has to do with my name starting with Jun so they pronounce the first syllable "June" which is a common girls name.

And after going over killerjesters ISO again I didn't notice anything that should put him up at the spot where others are on the scumlist.

Several people like Goomba are going to need more time so they can post more but I don't want them to hesitate to start on that asap.

[Junpei]

I don't really care if he's usually inactive, I want him to be active this game. Creating a meta of being inactive d1 is stupid, and is a habit that needs to be kicked. If you are town then stop using your meta as an excuse to be lazy and help out.

[Junpei]

Killerjester I'm not ignoring his scumminess I'm simply stating that I am not going to go down in record supporting something that I haven't investigated.

My reasons for suspicion on KillerJester was his bad voting habits. But right before I posted he made a scumcase on Leonshade which made my vote case look silly. Also I hadn't read the whole thread in detail looking for reads I was taking notes on the first things I noticed. When I went to go browse his ISO I found that he wasn't as scummy as I thought. A list of reads on everyone is not happening as there isn't enough content to make those reads on. That thing where you guys bounced Vifam for having that silly post was laughable. Reads on 24 odd people this early? They're about as inaccurate combined as a blind archer.

I didn't mean that I personally hated hydra users. I meant that I hate the idea of hydras in that it makes me have to have a ton of extra work separating you two. At least tag your posts saying which one is posting... Really it would help me out a ton. I don't even care about the names it could be guy A and guy B just TAG YOUR POSTS WITH WHO YOU ARE.

unrelated: did the site go down for like 1 minute?

[Junpei]

I have a possibility: He lied and the other head actually did post that.

Also alright I'll start my case on Leon and whehter i find him scummy or not now

[Junpei]

Leonshade

ISO 3 He decides to pick out Rodion and tell him that a fullclaim would be a bad idea especially this early. This is something that many others have already said and there were more credible things to discuss.

ISO 3 His logic here is bad because the two statements are not contradictory. Either way he seems to be focusing on something trivial as Rodion is new to this site and this is probably a misunderstanding. As far as the fullclaim goes, I would say that given that the implication was that there was a speed lynch there is probably some lost-in-translation understanding between you two. Either way this post lacks logic or reason.

ISO 4 I like this post I guess. I mean it isn't a great post but I can't say it is bad. I understand why he is lynching Jilynne although he just says he its 'offputting' so he definitely is lacking logic. But that's a case where you don't really need logic. Other than that he answers a question. With 18 hours separating his 3 and 4 though, you'd think he'd have more to discuss than the scummy post at the top of the page.

ISO 5 So he says he finds Vifam scummy (BW tactic, he doesn't vote her so he's distancing himself from a lynch that ends in a d1 town death possibly). Also he keeps his vote on Jyl. Over a day has passed and this is all he has to say.

ISO 6 Lol'd when I read this one as it was the same thing I said. Anyways yeah, nothing else to note other than he defends his ISO 5 in 1 sentence.

ISO 7 Provides a logical reason to change his vote to Vifam I suppose, although it is a bit of a BW. Either way I like the way he explained why he was on the Jyls' lynchwagon and why he is no longer on it.

ISO 8 I like the first part of the post, although i don't like how all his posts thusfar are centralized on things that don't matter too much in comparison to all the other things going on. I also don't like how he isn't being detailed in why he thinks certain things as much as I'd like. This is also his first attempt at scumhunting through a non-vote in this game.

ISO 9 Part 1 is links to a game. Part 2 is responding to someone's case.

The last two posts are dumb.

I think that he hasn't posted nearly enough content and has made very little if any attempts at scumhunting or following up on his attempts. He isn't being productive and while he does chime in every now and again it is mostly fluff and it is always not as productive as it could be.

Once again my vote stays on Meran but I certainly find LeonShade suspicious for drifting between general opinions and and not actually searching for scum, which is often what scum do.

Pedit: Zinger that is the shittiest comment ever. Go respond in a serious manner and start posting content or start traveling because you'll be dead soon and you'll want to make the most of your short existence.

[Junpei]

Noted.

Meran has just jumped up on my scumlist for responding to that post with nothing at all.

You have made posts that imply you'll eventually post something until you finally make a post saying to never expect anything from you. And then you say that you're too lazy and it 'isn't' going to hurt me that much' to have you gone all day? This seems like a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

[Junpei]

Noted.

Meran has just jumped up on my scumlist for responding to that post with nothing at all.

You have made posts that imply you'll eventually post something until you finally make a post saying to never expect anything from you. And then you say that you're too lazy and it 'isn't' going to hurt me that much' to have you gone all day? This seems like a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

It is a scum tactic to get a free ride day 1.

I'm assuming you're referring to my tracker claim? The difference is that with my role known, if I were mafia then there'd be other mechanical ways of trapping me and proving that I'm mafia. Your method is nothing more than 'i will not post till d2' which of course implies that you know you'll live d2. This also implies that we will have some benefit in not lynching you today. It also gives us to material to scumhunt you with in future days if you survive.

[Junpei]

Funny, you don't even have the Vifam slot up there... That's interesting as it is.

this is the very first time you've said you wanted to lynch Pine and he's already your first choice

Mind sharing why? Also did you read any of those walls of text?

[Junpei]

If you do not find the game of mafia entertaining that I do not understand why you play it. Participate in conversation with adding your reads (I'm assuming that you have reads right?) and providing insight. In fact why dont you tell us your top three scum right now and maybe even some reasoning to go along.

Otherwise I guess you're claiming scum?

[Junpei]

I second the Ultimatum brought up by vollkan.

[Junpei]

Nah, I'd rather you guys lynch me. I don't see how that would help you, but whatever.

I don't believe this. Alright you must be suicidal.

Vigilante if you exist shoot Meransiel at night, unless something huge comes up this day, this is a MUST as Meransiel is almost confirmed jester.

[Junpei]

Alright, I see your point for Pine.

As far as a vifam slot, before I came and claimed tracker everyone wanted to lynch Vifam. Everyone found her scummy, however I probably won't be lynched today barring a claim, unless I've already convinced you in my first 10 or so posts that I'm town I'm surprised that you already find the slot town.

[Junpei]

No Meran it is too late you have already sealed your fate as Vigilante target for the first night. Unless you might decide to help?

It seems like you're getting worried Meran that you'll die tonight before getting lynched and lose...

[Junpei]

ThreeisFrench

Meran is now vigilante-meat.

I see your reasoning on Pine and that we need to place more pressure on him, but there is something that makes me more line ant on him, it has to do with an ongoing game so I can't really talk about it yet. I think the game will be over within a week, but I don't really know for sure. Of course this thing won't excuse his absence for that long anyways so it's not important for now.

ZeL1nK that's a mod PM question lol

[Junpei]

vote ThreeisFrench

hng

[Junpei]

I apologize for not knowing about there being no Jester. You see, I actually replaced in and I never knew he said there was no Jester. Regardless I'm not going to waste my lynch on him. I still think vigilante should go after him and we should make a more lucrative lynch. So far lynching him just makes it easier for town, but I'd rather have a whole town decide on a different lynch that might take more thought and have the guy with the gun go apeshit on the lurker. Zinger is someone I will lynch as well. His posts have no content.

Zinger you are doing nothing to help town and you have done nothing to help town in the past. That is a fact, you are nothing more than an obstacle in our way, and you look like mafia.

[Junpei]

Oh yeah also ThAdmiral, just to respond to that one bit in your post, waiting for L-1 would have been dangerous. I knew that I was tracker and that there is no way this BW was going tot turn around just because I replaced in. People were going v/la and it was very close to a lynch.

[Junpei]

@Junpei, it's Day 1. Gimme a break. I see nothing that isn't just people jumping to conclusions or circumstantial.

Day 1 cases are almost always a flop. All that really matters is that we keep people talking so there is something to look back at during the following days.

Agreed.

So keep talking, but this time, post content. You know, the kind where you post reads and explain them and tell us your opinions on things we've done. Right now you aren't looking good and you are looking like Meran except that you are trying to hide your contentless expedition. I don't know which is worse but I do know one thing, and that is that you are going to be killed eventually if you don't put some more effort into the game.

When I said agreed I lied by the way, I actually think that we can catch scum day 1, and I don't see why you don't, perhaps you're overconfident? Statistically speaking most d1 cases will be flops but that doesn't mean all of them have to be. So start working and show that you're scumhunting.

@Nero that quote is all messed up, Leonshade said "Why would you claim unprovoked?" not me. I know that your post shows that you know that, but so others know, Leon said that.

[Junpei]

But this begs the guestion Why did you decide to point out the flaw in my post instead of adress my claim that your slot is scummy b/c you never had a scum read on Vifam but voted him anyway?

Other head did that, I didn't see the Vifam wagon at all.

so... ask him?

You two don't discuss your reads and opinions together?

[Junpei]

I think the reasons that we want the heads to claim is so that it is easier to read them. Sure meta is good but it is mainly used by me as a means to cross-reference what the player says is their meta. Otherwise I doubt that the player would fall into the same rutt of 'how i act as mafia'. In fact acting as either is a null tell for me. But if I don't understand which head had which thoughts and such, I can't understand their mind and that is very key in determining scum. I can't force you to claim, but you go on the scumlist for not marking your posts when head 1 and head 2 is speaking.

Hydras

ThreeisFrench
Pappums Leather Jacket
...Who else? I think there is at least one more.

Also, I apologize if you've already done this Zel1nK, but I couldn't find where you explained why you claimed vigilante? It seemed to serve no purpose. You say that you "never tell jokes" and that you are always serious. You even referenced your claim recently wondering if you could kill both of Zlinger and Meran. The fact that you never joke makes me find that suspicious as that is something that you would ask in a role PM. Even so it seems rather obvious whether or not your PM says you can kill two in a night. I want you to explain this as best you can.

pedit: Zlinger that may be true although every one of your posts seems like a scumbudy prodded you and told you you were lurking...

[Junpei]

@ThreeIsFrench could you go through your ISO when you get the chance and tag all your posts as either DJ or hip? Some are lacking a tag, if the post just before your last one is the first one by DJ then tell me that, otherwise please go through and tag them.

Same goes for chkballin as although some posts are tagged as either CHK or Ballin, many aren't.

Pinky and the Brain has been perfect

Ze1ink has no tagged posts other than his hydra announcement post

silverdrummer has a good system going I suppose. I won't whine over only one head signing, as long as he's consistent it's all good.

Pappums Leather Jacket never signs either, please do this.

[Junpei]

Merans, can you post examples of you sitting out Day 1? Cause you diddin't do it in Super Hero Revolution OR SEMG, both of which are Larges I've played with you in.

Rodion: Yeah, Lyncher seems fairly rare on this site.

-diddin

In Square Enix, I active lurked. In Super Hero, Magna was pushing hard on me and I had to do something.

I read two things from that

1) You've been in 2 larges and lurked in 1 and are now using some made up meta based on 1 of 2 games to justify lurking here. This tells me that you want your meta to be lurking day 1. This isn't something you do out of principle, you just really want to have an excuse to lurk day 1, and that is bad.

2) Pushing hard on you makes you talk

lynch Meransiel

[Junpei]

No, I'm stating a fact. The best I could have said to your accusation is "nuh-uh!", because there's no way for me to prove my motivations with words, only with actions.

Spoiler: My response

Just stop arguing over this, it is wasting time. Just prove him wrong if you shall with your actions as you say, since as of yet you have not done that.

- Scum try to look suspicious of someone that is in no danger of being lynched so they are uninvolved with the lynch of a townie.

AGAIN WITH THE NINJA MOVES. Meriting more votes? If I recall correctly..and I do. Back in #270 you said the reason why you were switching from Jil to Vifam was because it was taking awhile for Jil to be replaced. Now you're saying you switched it because you no longer felt Vifam had sufficient votes on him, as you did before when you kept your vote on Jil, and needed more. So which is it?

What is the bolded part even referring to? It seems to have nothing to do with the post you quoted. As for your question... those two things are not mutually exclusive. I unvoted Jil because it was taking a while for her to be replaced, and I voted Vifam for feeling that he was scummy enough to merit a vote.

Spoiler: My response

I think the bold part is irrelevant. His reasons made sense to me and after hearing it I think that you are trying to stretch this into something that it isn't.

Chkballin I don't care about your meta, in fact I won't read any of anyone's heres previous games or even look at them unless they are using their meta in an argument. You can say "ISO 1: Ballin ISO 2: chk" etc, which would be really helpful. And believe it or not you are 2 players and you have 2 minds and the way you speak is different if only very slightly. I would greatly appreciate it. Although as long as you tag your posts from now on it won't be such a big deal to go and retag all your previous posts if it is too much of a hassle to do.

Zlinger what you're doing is 100% anti-town. We are wasting energy/posts on you and that is bad. I won't take role-excuses for an answer as it seems like a really cheap way to get out of jail free. Could someone please confirm that there is a likely mechanic that implies that what Zlinger is doing is smart? If there is then Zlinger is an idiot or mafia for softclaiming it. If not than Zlinger is mafia or we have an unlikely scenario.

[Junpei]

vote Meransiel

Didn't realize the mistake, sorry.

ThreeIsFrench are you ever going to post any sort of reads or anything? I guess you're telling me that DJ is MIA, but who needs him right? Just tell us YOUR reads.

[Junpei]

Zinger townslipped.

I don't see it. Please elaborate when you make claims like that.

[Junpei]

Well killerjester this vote makes no sense to me. You are choosing to lynch izak apparently because of a post that Pinky made regarding his cognitive dissonance on Jester jokes. Unfortunately I can't say it is a scumtell because if you'll notice (and Pinky noticed as well) that it was most likely caused by Pinky's response to the first instance. I'd like to see izak's response though before I go into anymore detail. Regardless your vote seems out of place given all the other options we have going for us.

[Junpei]

Should I elaborate? izak's second instance, the one where he talks down on you for suggesting a jester possibility seems like he's over-compensating for his earlier mistake. That's what really rang the scum-dar in my head.

I can see that, fair enough.

[Junpei]

Also, I apologize if you've already done this Zel1nK, but I couldn't find where you explained why you claimed vigilante? It seemed to serve no purpose. You say that you "never tell jokes" and that you are always serious. You even referenced your claim recently wondering if you could kill both of Zlinger and Meran. The fact that you never joke makes me find that suspicious as that is something that you would ask in a role PM. Even so it seems rather obvious whether or not your PM says you can kill two in a night. I want you to explain this as best you can.

In what possible way could it benefit you for me to discuss my motives here?

Well I find hiding under hidden role mechanics suspicious and I wanted to see if there was any way that you could safely explain some of it to me. From what I know vigilante can only kill 1 person at night typically.

As for the people who are saying don't point out Zlinger's town slip, if out of the handful of people who seem to have seen it there is 1 scum, then scum will already know. No reason to not inform town. Besides, scum will find it out in 1 months' time anyways, but someone like me who is new to the site and (admittedly) not understanding of how someone could townslip, it'd be helpful.

[Junpei]

First: stop quoting walls when you are only responding to a small piece or making a small comment.

Second: Marco that's called wifom and besides, I'd rather get the moron out the way early, lets pressure him.

Third: Volkan I've seen a scum team of purely hard lurkers (like the ones that almost never post) before. You have to be wary of that as it is hard to gauge their scumminess and you can't just hold it off till lategame.

[Junpei]

Mod please prod easjo682

3 posts and last one was the 15th...

[Junpei]

Zinger, you're focusing discussion on yourself in a completely useless way, which helps because I am suspecting the people attacking you. You have my gratitude.

You're a moron on a whole new level of dumb.

Mod I hope you'll excuse that comment given the circumstances.

Just because he pointed out that you'd be gambiting town does NOT make him obvtown. You could say he's buddying or just pointing something out we all knew. I will not take you off my lynchlist. I will still lynch you with passion if I decide to, I do not believe you will be active day 2, I believe you'll just be as bad as you are as far as content goes. You'll not give us as much as we hope and as a result you'll get lynched. But there's a mechanical reason why you want to live to n1, I know it. There's something that is so good that you would risk death in future days if it means you can be assured of your n1 arrival.

The fact you want so badly to make it to n1 scares me. Town wouldn't have to show that desire this way, scum might.

[Junpei]

Meran then how the fuck do you plan to be competent day 2 after 40 pages have been posted? You'll be so far behind we'll never see you.

Also I got this from your post:

1) You're doing something you do as scum normally

2) You think I'm a village idiot.

AtE voting noted.

[Junpei]

Zlinger claims third party. Town would never claim third party. So either he is third party hoping that we will go with him and allow him to win, or he is scum trying to go under the radar and not get lynched.

The former means that we let someone who has been as shitty as Zlinger win. That is not something I want to happen.

The latter means that he thinks that since he is the easy lynch we won't go after him (like Meran). It also means that he thinks that people will get away from him, saying that scum wouldn't do that or something stupid like that. He has just claimed non-town, I will not not lynch him today, we need to get rid of all the non-town variables ASAP. I don't care if you won't interfere with town, I know you are either bad or null for town, so I want you dead.

lynch Zlinger

Oversoul: What part of my reads don't you agree with?

Silverdrummer: I asked you if you had read the walls of text that were posted earlier in the day, you never responded. Please respond.

[Junpei]

I'm sorry, I mean vote whenever I say lynch. I'll be more aware. And he softclaimed lyncher then why did he say that he has a night target?

And I will continue to scumhunt, however I don't see myself shifting away from a confirmed non-town. The last thing we need is lyncher(if he is that) jointing with mafia on lylo. Getting him out of the way early saves us some trouble.

[Junpei]

vote Zinger

Once again, I apologize Jason.

[Junpei]

1) Meran to the meta rescue. Goomba being Goomba is asking for role claims? lolwat?

2) ThreeIsFrench you neither tagged your post nor gave reasoning for that vote.

[Junpei]

I have the ability to win before the game is over

Are you guys unfamiliar with third party roles that aren't a Serial Killer? He's claiming that he's not a threat to town... why does that warrant him to be lynched?

Everyone on the Zinger just got scum points for going for the "easy mislynch" when it's obvious he has a win condition completely seperate to the rest of the town.

See also: get over yourselves. Would scum claim like that? Seriously?

~

CHK

1) Not familiar with all but most

2) The easy lynch isn't always the wrong one. And I find it odd that you say mislynch. How are you so sure that it is a mislynch? You do realize that scum lie right?

3) Yes, it's a wifom tactic. Rather smart as it keeps possible SKs off of you and the town off of you. This creates a case where you are immune to night and day kills and no one gets suspicious. Also note how he doesn't specify a time when he'll win. He says that he could win soon or it could take a longer time, he even offers the possibility that he'll live to LYLO. Does that not seem odd to you?

[Junpei]

I think the mod cleared him somewhere (That's what people are saying) but I don't see it or the town slip. Regardless he isn't a townie so that is out of the window.

[Junpei]

I don't want flinger to win, he doesn't deserve to win. If he is third party/scum (he is confirmed one of those) then he will be less likely to win by killing him. If we don't lynch him I demand we shoot him via vigilante.

[Junpei]

Any time spent on me is time wasted towards your own win conditions. If I am to win I should be out of the game before the end of it, and if I am not I probably can't win (my target is likely dead).

Guys trust me, you shouldn't bother lynching me, I promise

My role is similar to what Peregrine quoted, though not the same. I also don't leave the game after a set period of time as far as I can tell, I only leave if I win.

In any event, for those of you who are town out there, I would be extremely suspicious of the people who are pushing my lynch so hard. I might not be town, but I am also not against the town. Your enemy is the mafia, and any time spent focusing on me is time spent ignoring your true threat.

People voting me are suspicious. I sure hope that you guys see this and unvote me! You are probably scum!

For that matter, the same goes for the mafia. It would be wasteful of you to waste a night kill on me. Though, I can see why pushing for my lynch (as I am sure some of you are) is a good idea from your standpoint.

Oh yeah, mafia too I guess! Also people lynching me are scum!

Yeah I don't like this post at all.

Also you don't deserve to win because you are not playing the way your role (if that is your role) is designed. You aren't supposed to hardclaim day 1 and say "nanana boo boo you can't touch me!", and the fact that you did makes me think you are either fake claiming as scum or more likely you are just not that smart. If you thought I had reason to lynch you before, imagine now that you've told us that you're a ROLEBLOCKER. That is such a bad thing for town, a rouge roleblocker.

Finally, this is not just an easy lynch, this is a good lynch. Stop assuming that just because it should be easy to garner support for a lynch means that it is wrong and those on the lynch are scum. That is just bad reasoning.

[Junpei]

Rule 2 states that you can modkill/replace as you deem fit

Rule 3 states that you may add/edit rules as you please.

There is wiggle room to get rid of Meran if you want.

[Junpei]

Well then my question is this. Is it more likely to have negative repercussions for town by lynching or vig shooting Meran?

[Junpei]

A bomb being shot kills both the bomb and the shooter.

[Junpei]

I agree, we are definitely not hammering any time soon.

In the event we decide to lynch him, we have Meran hammer, agreed? That is unless someone more suspicious comes up or Meran begins to post more.

[Junpei]

David X, isn't that the idea here? He could have wifomed.

Regardless too much time is being spent on Zlinger and Meran, if they're scum they are doing well to distract us.

Let us focus on others where there is more to say, I will eventually get around to other leads, the thing is that most people have hardly posted and there isn't much to say, seems like we have 8 or so easy lynches.

[Junpei]

He said that flavor is just that, flavor. The roles don't correspond intentionally with the flavor.

[Junpei]

Lynching Zinger is almost too easy.

Wrong, it IS too easy. And that is very interesting to me, so much so that I am willing to call his bluff and lynch him if the rest of town will support it.

[Junpei]

Do you think he's mafia bluffing or do you think he's third party or some sort?

And if you think he's mafia, why do you think he did this?

And if you think he's third party, then why go after him today?

If he's mafia I think that he is testing our will and expecting us to pass on this lynch of him. Especially considering Meran's odd behavior.

If he's third party then I doubt he is the role he claims he is, in which case we need him out of the picture before he does whatever shenanigans he does. Besides, would you rather risk outing another town PR, or go for the confirmed non-town who claims to be a roleblocker?

[Junpei]

The risk of "outing PRs" means nothing to me. I can't help it if town PRs are playing like scum. They should probably stop doing that. Might help them not get outed.

I want scum lynched today, not claimed third party. Zinger is a good vig shot, but it's not worth lynching him today, imo.

Look, we know there are no jesters, so we know that lynching him won't be directly -EV town if he is third party
However, it is possible he has a bomb effect and that would be bad for vigilante.

Oh not to mention our vigil is out in the open presumably, meaning that roleblock party is taking place on him. Who is a roleblock that we know of... oh yeah, Zinger, the guy we want vigil to kill! Oh he won't RB vigil no way no how!

[Junpei]

....

You think he's a third party bomb who wins if he gets shot at night?

No.

Besides, he claims he can only roleblock me once.

I don't think he's a bomb, I'm just bouncing off ideas, I don't really know the norms are even the unusual here so I'm trying to get a grasp on that.

And

1) He claims he can only roleblock once

2) How long are you willing to delay his death?

[Junpei]

ughh

ewdp

emphasis on claims

[Junpei]

How long are you willing to delay his death?

Until it becomes a good idea to kill him, which is an iffy subject and depends on a lot of factors. The short answer is: at least until tomorrow.

You'd leave someone confirmed to be a wild-card third party alive for even 1night? Who knows what kind of stuff he can do. I suppose every time I go into more depth on it I start to think that I would be okay with other lynches, but I still keep coming to the same conclusion that third parties are bad for town. Especially ones like this where they claim to have a -EV town role and are being so -EV town during daychat.

[Junpei]

3) Yes, it's a wifom tactic. Rather smart as it keeps possible SKs off of you and the town off of you. This creates a case where you are immune to night and day kills and no one gets suspicious. Also note how he doesn't specify a time when he'll win. He says that he could win soon or it could take a longer time, he even offers the possibility that he'll live to LYLO. Does that not seem odd to you?

Bullshit. Do you actually believe this?
No scum is going to claim that - there is 0% chance he is going to survive until lylo.

Are you kidding me? Who said anything about him living at LYLO? The fact that he brought up the possibility that he might live at LYLO is odd to me. I mean he basically says, I might never die, but I"m third party and you should stay away from me! My bets are that scum will take the cookie and hunt town PRs like myself down at night instead of going after someone that they know town will have to get rid of. All scum don't have to reach LYLO, some just have to be able to be free of town lynchings/shots d1/n1 and then they can use some important ability or something. That's why I don't like Meran too. Also saying 0% means that you'll lynch him up to what; 1 day before lylo? You want to use our last ML on a third party? We'll have so much information then that it would be ridiculous to do so. I say take him out while we still don't have reports and such.

The easy lynch can be the good lynch
The lurker lynch can be the good lynch

I am not a lynch all lurkers guy, but I'm also not a pass all lurkers guy. Accusing me of going for the easy/lurker lynch is ridiculous and just screams scum throwing their cliche one liners to get people off their buddy. But it could also be town with stubborn ideas.

[Junpei]

Junpei, why would a third party claim keep potential SKs off you?

I'm not quite following that logic.. :/

Would an SK go after a harmless third party who will either be lynched by town at some point or exit the game with a win? No, he goes after the people who might shoot him at night or might be good at lynching him.

[Junpei]

LOL

Sorry had to get that out of my system.

Moderator please keep an eye our for Zlinger. He has a temper and is not an asset to town at all so we won't mind I promise.

Zlinger if you are what you say you are you're anti-town. I'm sorry that your silly gambit didn't work out for you but there's no reason to have all these emotional bursts inthread. Take it to PMs or counseling.

[Junpei]

Of course, if you can't beat them join them, right? The meta on this site is to act like an arrogant rude prick, and you can't really get by unless you abide by that social code.

Actually Zinger I'm a very calm and nice person, I only responded in that way to your rudeness. Please reread the thread and I dare you to find one insult thrown at your direction before you called this site pathetic. There are many players here who can be assholes but the great majority of us are calm intellectuals who don't AtE like you are doing right now.

Please take a break from mafia and come back tomorrow. If you feel like you still can't participate in an acceptable manner then request a replacement.

[Junpei]

Mk.

Moderator I request a replacement of Zlinger2099 for continual bashing of players and mafiascum in general, he also expresses no care for the game itself. He is harming the game in a way that isn't even anti-town so much as anti-fun.

[Junpei]

It was more of a message to Zlinger to straighten up and stop being such a 'dick' than an actual replacement request.

[Junpei]

It was more of a message to Zlinger to straighten up and stop being such a 'dick' than an actual replacement request.

You're using requests to the mod to make a point?

It's not like me telling him to stop being so mean had any effect, if this is something that is considered rude then I apologize as I haven't heard of that before, but I used the mod request to pressure Zlinger and get him off his high horse.

[Junpei]

I don't even care, fine I"ll get off my high horse, now will you post content and explain why you think it was a good idea for you to claim what you did?

[Junpei]

Meransil on the other hand is a VI who has adopted the “Hey, if I go out of my way to look scummy people will see I’m Town” style of play and is doing a bad, bad job of it. I’d rather that Meran get vigged if it comes down to either Meran or Zinger at deadline.

You're saying that you're a VI who is doing a very bad job of trying to be so scummy you're town? That's seriously what you're saying?

[Junpei]

1. Hydras are ONE PLAYER YOU DO NOT GET TO HAVE TWO COMPLETELY DIFFERENT LINES OF THOUGHT AND REASONING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO INDIVIDUALLY EXPLAIN JUST BECAUSE YOU ARE USING AN ACCOUNT STYLE THAT MANY PEOPLE THINK IS BS.

4. I'm really having a hard time keeping my head right now, I need to take a break from this thread. GET OVER YOUR PERSONAL GRIEF AND SEE PAST YOUR VENDETTAS. I don't care if Pine had sex with your brother and then killed your pet, I don't want you bringing in stuff like that to this game.

Zlinger has claimed a third party role that roleblocks. Furthermore he says that he has to roleblock someone who is his target and that target can be town. That alone is enough to lynch him. It is straight up bad play on his part. Unless someone brings up some third party idea that has to get lynched to win that isn't Jester, lynching him is a good idea.

If your other head is always mia then tell him to not post.

[Junpei]

I don't even care, fine I"ll get off my high horse, now will you post content and explain why you think it was a good idea for you to claim what you did?

I thought that if the mafia team believed I wasn't a threat to them I could fly under their radar while I either roleblock them (if I had a good idea of who they might be) or protect town players (if I didn't have a clue who might be scum).

I'm just a standard town Jailkeeper. It was all a fakeclaim. You can lynch me for lying now.

To self: "Oh shit it didn't work! Fuck!"

To all: "I'm a frustrated townie, I hate you all /insult"

To self: "Not working..?"

To all: "I'm town JK! Hahaha that was wifom!"

[Junpei]

/facepalm

Silver, lets say that he is a 3rd party RB, and you actually think that his intent is to safe the good townies of TV mafia.

He targets, oh I dont know, me.

I get roleblocked. Him targeting me gives a 100% chance I won't get a report. Whereas it is a 1 in (26-X) chance that I die (where X = mafia). However this is additive with all other killing factions and possible vig shots. Regardless he is still not worth it for town.

I'm going to make a thread in MD eventually discussing the ethics of hydras, although I don't think I'll be able to legally do so for some time. Ergo we won't be discussing that further here.

Also >mfw silver still supports Zinger. Mafia clinging onto town to say "i told ya so?" later? More like mafia clinging to third party in hopes that it's town.

i don't know if you're mafia silver because your two heads are completely different people, but that post does not look town.

[Junpei]

Lynch all Liars is a bad thing to think. However it is the nature of this lie that makes me really want to lynch him. Zinger hasn't responded in an appropriate way half the time anyways. AtE is all he knows, I hope that this site will eventually show him the ropes to being a competitive mafia player. Anyways, I don't think I want to end the day yet, but get the votes up a little short of L-1 so we don't risk some guy who just reread but missed votals coming in and hammering.

@chkballin 100% agree.

andrew I can never understand what you're writing...

[Junpei]

No andrew I don't understand your post at all. What do you mean did we see his last post? Also the first two lines aren't legible, I really don't want to insult your intelligence so I'll just say is there any other way you can write it to make it easier to understand?

Don't do this because I don't know if it's allowed or not but... Does anyone know if it's okay for someone to post in their native language and let other players use google translate to figure out what they're saying? I think it might make communication easier for some players and google translate is something that we all have.

[Junpei]

Okay yes I see that.

1) Why is it scummy

2) Why don't you want to lynch zinger

[Junpei]

Alright, Zlinger is a troll. He's blacklisted and hopefully everyone else will do the same if his wincon as revealed at the end of the game isn't something that implies this behavior is acceptable. Regardless I'm ignoring him from here on out, I refuse to comment on what he says.

[Junpei]

Izak inspection: Note that I will try to keep this as less of a wall as possible

1. Confirms, he's late into the game due to v/la
2. Votes vifam wagon and shares some thoughts
3-9: Interacts with Zel1nK, jester comment, lots of fluff
10: Votes meran with me, insults me about jester
11: promises reads, chevre isn't scummy to him
12: 'zinger says it all' is why he fos's me. Also he wants zinger to hardclaim.
13-14: very little content if any
15-16: restates what I said on zinger
17: Breaks down Zingers argument, good post although maybe unnecessary, not too bad.
18: restating what he already said a bit

Basically, he wagoned on my Meran lynch, and then wagoned on my Zinger lynch. Both were for obvious reasons although on the latter he goes in depth. Has never given us his reads he promised and seems like he is never caught up. Also possible scum tell on the jester joke/insult. Might be softly buddying me and using the fos to cover it up, I don't know, he is certainly sheeping me to some degree. Although to be honest

both my lynch campaigns of Meran and zinger were for very obvious reasons and are easy to understand why you'd find them scummy.

So I don't see him as obvious mafia but I do find him scummy in that he rarely posts content, leaves empty promises, and has few original thoughts.

[Junpei]

#430

Well that is true if we lynch him today, ignoring everything he says while not lynching him is basically giving him a free "lurk all day we won't care" get out of jail free card. So either we lynch him today or you can't keep spouting that philosophy around.

[Junpei]

No, it's very simple. Ignore him and start scum hunting.

Just pretend he's not even posting.

It's very easy, I have skimmed over his posts over recent pages because I know there isn't any important content in them. He's not scum. He's not a threat. I am very happy to ignore him and have him lurk all day - I really don't care.

...How do you know he isn't scum/a threat again...?

[Junpei]

If he is actually third party, I don't see him as a threat.

whaaa

How can you say that!?!

[Junpei]

It's very easy. I hit a few keys on my keyboard then I click the "Submit" button.

>third party
>not town
>claimed RB
>Probably even worse than that
>Not a threat

Mind = blown

[Junpei]

He's a claimed Jailer, not a Roleblocker. There's a difference.

Also

>Probably even worse than that

... is your theory, and one I don't agree with.

Jailer roleblocks, he claimed he even had a permanent roleblock ability.

It is probably worse because I'm almost certain that anti-town third party would soften up his role a bit to make town a little more forgiving. There is no reason to believe he'd work with town or even work to fulfill his win-con since he "doesn't care about this game" and is trolling around. Literally he said that he is doing stupidshit that he'd never do on the site he normally plays on because it would RUIN HIS REPUTATION. That is trolling. Thus, trying to say that there is no reason for him to directly harm town is silly.

[Junpei]

Ok ... more food for thought ...

I've been Neighborized by two seperate players today. Both have claimed the same mechanics behind how they Neighborize.

I've come to the conclusion that it is unlikely as heck that both are Town. One may be Third Party. One may be Scum. Both might be Scum.

Discuss the ramifications ...

Wait is this a serious thing or are you trying to make a point.

[Junpei]

Well with the way your other post ended talking about Zinger it sounded odd to me. You start with "food for thought" which normally means you're about to say something to keep someone's brain busy for a while. Then you basically outline every possible case and say to "discuss the ramifications". It seemed like you were going to make a point about Zinger using this neighborizer example.

May I ask why you felt the need to say this day 1, since you're obviously serious?

[Junpei]

I agree that Pine has been active in other areas of the site yet refuses to post in here even when given a prod.

I want to pressure him however I can't see us lynching him over Zinger (not that I'd want to). Although I think he should be vigmeat for tonight.

[Junpei]

I use these forums to do all the stupid things I would never consider doing on the other forums where I play mafia so that I can see first hand why doing that is a bad idea without screwing with my rep on the site that I take the game seriously.

I have to point this out.

Here's the thing, in all of his other games, he doesn't act mean and snarky, he scumhunts and gives reads even. He isn't even selfish or arrogant or antagonizing. I think that what he is doing could be a ploy, although he may just be mad his claim idea didn't work out. I still stand on the side that says lynch zinger, I'm just pointing out an interesting lie.

[Junpei]

Chkballin, my claim was not at all the same as Zingers' claim, I think that much is obvious. Classifying it as the same thing is ridiculous. Zingers' claim wasn't the result of the votes, the votes were the result of Zinger's claim.

[Junpei]

Chkballin, my claim was not at all the same as Zingers' claim, I think that much is obvious. Classifying it as the same thing is ridiculous. Zingers' claim wasn't the result of the votes, the votes were the result of Zinger's claim.

Claims are claims. That is all I am saying, and Zinger was catching heat earlier anyway. The point that I think you are missing is that if you and he are telling the truth then there are town PRs outed. Ideally I don't like any PRs outed, but since we've already got 3 out I'd like to try and keep that number low. Do you disagree?

~

BALLIN

I take it you haven't seen my vote on Zinger yet?

[Junpei]

@Leonshade, it's all good. I wouldn't expect you to.

Now I have to ask

If you would expect someone to vote you after lying about your claim, when why would you do what you did?

[Junpei]

I wonder if every other player that mentioned the town slip also had this in mind.

On my phone so just a short response but yes that is what I had in mind. I didn't think it was conclusive because the mid didn't specify whether this game had daytalking allowed or not.

Also @ zinger: I apologize about being rude before. I posted in anger which I don't normally do.

Given that you say you are town now can you please full claim your role?

His latest claim is "town Jailer".

[Junpei]

I hate wasting posts to remind people that I've already done what they're asking.

I ISO'd izok a while ago and gave some thoughts on him

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 1#p3262331

What are your thoughts on my thoughts Killerjester?

[Junpei]

Yeah always post whatever you want, try not to mess up a reaction test, but for the most part I won't do reaction tests.

I believe someone said something like "I pointed out that Izak said there were no jesters and then he tried to overcompensate for that by attacking Junpei". I can't remember who said that or the exact quote, but it was to that effect. And that is what I think probably happened.

Although I don't understand why mentioning Jesters is so bad.

[Junpei]

I'll say that I agree with the fact that there is a lot of elitism here. Although we should drop this subject because some people in this thread probably will come to the defense of this site and I don't care to hear it. I come from the hellhole known as Epicmafia, so I guarantee you I wasn't being elitist, I was simply trying to apply pressure to you so you'd give me more to work with in terms of being more confident in your alignment. At the end of the day though, we have 3 claims and you claimed third party. For future reference when something doesn't work out you get tons of shit for it. If you do flip JK and you weren't trolling, I just want to let you know that don't worry about it. Shrug it off because, veterans on this site do stupider shit than you've done in this game. I don't know where you're from, but there are some really cool people here and I encourage you to stay, I'm not going to blacklist you because you seem to be a nice person overall, but just remember that everyone is really competitive here. As a result when someone does something risky and it fails, they get a lot of flak. I encourage you to queue up for something else as well.

Regardless I'm afraid that I still want to lynch you. I have claimed, Zilink claimed vig, and you claimed JK. It really looks like we're the choices and you're the scummiest one to me.

[Junpei]

Silverdrummer doesn't think that he has any responsibility for what his other head did. Aha...ahahHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Sorry but that don't fly. Contribute in other ways, I don't even care about the Pine vote anymore, be open in your reads. And don't give me the "GOTTA CONSULT THE HEAD HURR HE'S MIA" because your other head got cut off. Act independent because obviously your other head is too.

Everything that can be said about zinger has been said, so there is no argument I can form that you haven't already read. If by some crazy logic you still think he's probable town then I cannot convince you.

[Junpei]

Basically Zel1nk, his play makes zero sense as town as well. The only real explanation is that he was a gambitting scum or third party whose wifom went horribly wrong. These things happen.

[Junpei]

1) we don't know if he's scum or third party. perhaps this was a gambit to make sure he made it to n1 to use some ability

2) tomorrow and further on we'll have more information, so there'll be more to base a lynch off of. Given that we have 3 claims already, I'd like to lynch the guy who claimed 3 different roles in 4 instances.

3) Rodion, does claiming JK, a ROLEBLOCKER, make any sense as town?

[Junpei]

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3261544

He claimed it was a gambit of sorts

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK you're basing your whole argument on the fact that zinger is a huge idiot. While it may seem that way from his claim... How about you read is other games and then I dare you to come back and tell me he is a complete moron. This gambit is the only thing that suggests that.

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK.

This idea.

That "gambit"

Was so shitty

I thought he was trolling

I looked through his ISOs and I can say that he is not that stupid.

[Junpei]

3) Rodion, does claiming JK, a ROLEBLOCKER, make any sense as town?

Are you trying to imply that roleblockers are necessarily/usually anti-town? My off-site experience says the opposite, particularly when he is a jailkeeper (doctor + roleblocker).

A roleblocker that has no motivation to help town is anti-town. He is going to target whoever the fuck he wants, and that includes possible town PRs.

[Junpei]

Overall, I got the feeling izak's

noooooottttt really

trying to scumhunt. At least to me it felt like he's content with lynching Zinger today, and that's grounds for not scumhunting the rest of the day. Since he wouldn't want to lynch anyone else, there must be no point. I'd looove thoughts on izak, guys. I still believe Zinger is a wonderful lynch today, and his flip would give me some insight on izak. But I felt this point was note-worthy and definitely worth bringing up.

This is, again, the way izak normally plays.

Hm. So you are reading more than just the pages you post on. That quote is from a page in which you had no post commenting on it. Your post was at the top of the page but it was regarding something from the previous page. This quote was hours before, earlier you said that you just show up, comment on the page we're on and then lurk some more. But this proves that you reread. Thank you for doing this.

[Junpei]

I will reformulate. I am ignoring only the pages that were written before my first post (1-16 I think). And by "ignore", I mean that I did read them, but I will not comment on them until a night has passed and kills have been revealed. Because that would help me arrive to more logical and spot-on conclusions.

So to be clear: you've read and understand pages 17-present and are willing to comment on them today?

[Junpei]

3) Rodion, does claiming JK, a ROLEBLOCKER, make any sense as town?

Sorry, but are you actually using a role-argument to insinuate alignment?

Even if I had claimed full on Roleblocker, what difference would it make? Just because it might be more commonly a scum role, doesn't mean it is in this game.

That's a terrible argument.

I was talking about third party JKs. We were already on the topic of you being third party, and I said that you weren't just claiming survivor, you were claiming a roleblocking third party, which is bad.

[Junpei]

@ everyone voting zinger: Do you people really believe he is scum? If not you are going for a

cop-out, sub-optimal lynch

.

Nice way to twist everything to make it seem like Zinger is a bad lynch and that those voting him are going for a 'cop out'. I stand by this lynch as I do think he is either scum or third party, this is not a cop-out and this is not a sub-optimal lynch. He has fullclaimed and I am still ready to lynch him.

Also we can stop talking about game setup theory as we aren't going to outguess the mod this early on.

[Junpei]

@Junepei- I'm glad for the pickup in activity, but Zingers got 14 of 16 votes now. Continuing in the same vein post after post if not scummy is really unproductive. It also leads me to the questions: Do you think Zinger is scum? If so, who are his partners? If not, why are you trying to lynch him?

First of all, he has 12 votes. So he's at L-2. Secondly, the main topic of conversation still seems to be him as people have popped up that are against this lynch, so I've had to defend the idea. It is not counterproductive if I believe that the lynch is a good one. Secondly, of course I think Zinger is scum/third party, where do I say that he is town? Nowhere. I think it's too early to determine his partners if he has any, I really can't tell you that, I need to analyze the situation more and it isn't something I can do before Zinger dies d1.

Junpei, you're a dedicated little kid. But, since I couldn't have said it better...

But you don't lynch a claimed Town PR Day 1 no matter how bad their play is.

That quote is wrong, his claim is not of the same nature as mine, I've already said that before. Also Meran we're at the point where we either out a 4th town person claim or we lynch one of three we already have. I certainly don't believe I'm the correct answer, and between ZeL1nK and Zinger I much prefer Zinger. In fact, I'd lynch Zinger even if those weren't my two options.

Also notice how Zinger is derailing the thread with you, this topic of game theory this early is worthless.

[Junpei]

Also I'd note that Meransiel calls game theory talk scummy, however here he is talking about game theory. Do you not think it is really a scum tell Meransiel?

[Junpei]

Also notice how Zinger is derailing the thread with you, this topic of game theory this early is worthless.

I am not derailing the thread. The theory we are discussing is pertinent to the current situation and has merit to be discussed.

Whether or not there is a mafia jail keeper shouldn't be relevant to you as you believe yourself to be a town jail keeper correct?

[Junpei]

So my scumreads so far are DavidX, ThAd, Silver, Vollkan and Chevre (in no particular order, and disregarding Rodion and TIF cause of the reason on the line above).

Do you want to correct yourself Meransiel? Where is Killerjester on this list? Your post earlier heavily implies you would want to lynch him, and he is not a non-poster.

[Junpei]

Also, think about this: is a 4th player run up to lynch and having to claim a better or worse thing than losing an actual jailer? Well?

Worse, however Zinger has claimed third party JK and that makes no sense whatsoever. I want to...


Hear from Zinger on why he thought that town would let a third party roleblocker not get hanged?

[Junpei]

I meant better, I was thinking is losing jailer worse than running up another player.

[Junpei]

Also, think about this: is a 4th player run up to lynch and having to claim a better or worse thing than losing an actual jailer? Well?

Worse, however Zinger has claimed third party JK and that makes no sense whatsoever. I want to...

Hear from Zinger on why he thought that town would let a third party roleblocker not get hanged?

I came up with a win-con that doesn't stop the Town from winning (and at worst case scenario only makes them lose on PR). I thought town wouldn't waste time going after someone who wasn't actively trying to prevent them from winning, and would instead use their time to find the mafia team (their true enemy).

But... you aren't talking about the flip side of the coin, and that is that you aren't trying to stop mafia from winning either. You are roleblocking whoever you please with no guidance, you really don't think that we'd see that as dangerous?

[Junpei]

I think it's too early to determine his partners if he has any, I really can't tell you that, I need to analyze the situation more and it isn't something I can do before Zinger dies d1.

This. I don't like this post, it smells funny.

I agree (and not just because it implicates me). I have thought all along that Junpei's focus on me has always been a vote of convenience.

As time passed and I gave him more to work with, he gained more credibility, but his initial vote had very little momentum.

And the fact that he is willing to kill someone before analyzing the situation surrounding that person in detail is certainly suspect.

Well it isn't a vote of convenience, it is a vote that I believe is correct. Seriously sometimes I think it is silly how you people believe that the easier lynch is always bad, and that those spearheading it are usually scum. There are correct lynches on lurkers and easy lynches, in a few days I'll have a perfect example of that for you.

I have analyzed the situation surrounding you in detail, I am far more engaged in what is going on than your post gives me credit for. I have a detailed list of reasons of why I want you dead and I've articulated them very clearly several times.

Anyways, I'm gone for the rest of today and most of tomorrow, will catch up.

[Junpei]

So is any other role that has no motivation to help town.. You basically said that he is bad for town simply because he is a roleblocker. When argued that roleblockers are not inherently anti-town, you claimed that an anti-town roleblocker is anti-town. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

HE CLAIMED THIRD PARTY ROLEBLOCKER DID YOU FUCKING MISS THAT. I'M SERIOUSLY UPSET AT HOW YOU ARE NOT GETTING THIS. WHY WOULD HE CLAIM A THIRD PARTY ROLE BLOCKER (HURR ANTI-TOWN) AS TOWN? IT. MAKES. NO. SENSE.

I could elaborate more, but every Zinger post in this interaction is correct, while every Junpei/Meran post is either wrong ("scum can't have jailkeepers") or unnecessary ("a RB that does not wish to help town is anti-town").

This last sentence tells me you are either trying really hard to twist my words and make Zinger look good WITHOUT elaborating, or that you're just dumb. Read the above, explain how Zinger is always right.

Do note that this conversation was not started by Zinger, he was merely reacting when Junpei claimed that roleblockers were inherently bad (while his claimed role isn't even roleblocker) and when Meran falsely argued that his chosen claim was "so town that it could look scummy" (without actually stating it, perhaps for distancing purposes?). In the end, Junpei claims Zinger is derailing the thread when he is merely correcting poor assumptions by Junpei/Meran.

First of all, he could have said at ANY point "this is not relevant to the thread, can we discuss something useful. It is clear he has no problem being snarky. Second of all, I love how you group me and Meran together as if our two conversations with Zinger were the same thing. Thirdly, that conversation WAS derailing the thread, and it was pointless. Meran is at fault too.

Junpei ends it saying he shouldn't defend the possibility of a mafia jailkeeper if he believes he is a town one (which is a way of preventing Zinger to defend himself from Meran's #783) and Meransiel praises the intelligence of the said comment.

Maybe Meran praises it because it was fucking correct? Maybe I am right, and that Zinger shouldn't have been arguing about mafia jailkeepers, as it is pointless? Maybe Zinger should have pointed that out and after giving him AND meran plenty of time to do so, I had to come in and end the conversation.

I'm reading Junpei and Meran going out of their respective ways to make Zinger look bad, which can be an attempt to push for a mislynch (or a 3rd-party lynch that is also good for scum).

1) If after reading what I wrote you still think that I was making Zinger look bad for the sake of making him look bad then tell me in detail why that is. 2)Your second point is shit. Third party death is good for town, and it isn't a mislynch. Every single lynch could be a mislynch.

I wrote in bold.

[Junpei]

Lynch all Liars is a bad thing to think.
...

Can you explain this? It always seems in my experience that the majority of people believe this is a good idea.

Town lie. They have reason to lie at some times. For instance, a gambit (which is perfectly legitimate in some cases, Zingers not one of them) is a lie to the rest of town that may be performed by town. Also perhaps some wifom in other scenarios in which town isn't straight to town in order to fool mafia. It's a silly assumption that town never lies and that is bad.

pedit: David I'll reread it.

[Junpei]

I read the argument and I think that the misunderstanding has been sorted out. I'll give my thoughts on it though.

1) I think that we have to lynch someone who claims PR, because, like David says everyone will most likely claim a PR.

2) There could be two of the same role, assuming everyone will get CCd if scum is silly.

3) I don't care if anyone posted in other games, unless they are REALLY inactive I think we can dismiss it.

4) MoI, when exactly did each neighbor contact you?

5) David hasn't adressed the claim of 'rolefishing'.

6) MoI misquoted David, lets get past that, I'm not sure how MoI missed it but whatever I suppose he skimmed.

[Junpei]

Here's a little thought for you sparky,

everyone put under pressure D1 is going to claim a PR

.

Ummm... no. The pro-town thing to do as a townie is to claim VT if you are VT. Most experienced people would do this. It is absurd to say that everyone is going to claim a PR.

I think that we have to lynch someone who claims PR, because, like David says everyone will most likely claim a PR.

Then I guess your Tracker claim should be discounted then if people are deciding who to lynch?

1) So you mean that the only people who wouldn't claim PRs are town? Good golly gosh, does this mean that mafia would always claim PRs!? But we don't lynch PRs day! Oh no!

2) Mafias pretending to be tracker are much easier to catch than JK or even vig. Soon enough I'll be confirmed as tracker if my reports are outed. However, I am not ignoring the possibility of mafia trackers. As such I would expect people not to assume that I'm town, even though I am. Regardless Zinger did a very scummy gambit that made no sense as town, and given his meta, is probably scum/third party.

[Junpei]

Well, Junpei, I hope you turn out a better detective than your namesake at least.

If you're referring to Junpei, then he was actually a detective. He was just involved in the Nonary Game, although I'm also not a detective I think I'll be able to find out the mystery regarding current events quicker than Junpei did, granted of course that I live long enough.

If you're not referring to Junpei then I don't understand this post haha.

[Junpei]

Rodion your post made me rage pretty hard, you just don't get it. I'll try to go slowly to compensate for your lack of understanding.

1) So why the fuck would he think that we'd let him live? "HEY GUYS I AM A ROLEBLOCKER I AM NOT ALIGNED AS TOWN. I WILL ROLEBLOCK WHOEVER THE FUCK I WANT AND THEY ARE ROLEBLOCKED FOREVERRRRR". To which we would respond, what? "Oh, well, that's safe, okay just do whatever you want man". Basic problem solving is hard I know. Besides, JK is not a role that is something we'd rather live than tracker or cop, so why would he try to raise the odds of those deaths by lower his death?

2) Meran and him were arguing over pointless points. I'm ignoring you on this point as there is no reason to persuade you.

3) Wait.. he can... he can block scum? Does.. does this mean that he can block town too!? Yep. And he has no reason to try to differentiate between the two, he is anti-town.

4) There was no reason to defend himself on a point that doesn't even incriminate him.

5) Don't say what I'm saying is bullshit when you obviously have no understanding of the claim, like seriously that's annoying.

6) There is no way in hell that you could argue that there are or aren't mafia jailkeepers in this setup. There's just no fucking way at this point in the game that you could convince anyone of either side because it is possible, but there's no way of knowing if it is probable.

7)>poor logic >false arguments. Sounds like something that you're doing, perhaps trying to form an identity that you're protecting Zinger?

[Junpei]

Can you think of other scenarios? Because those seem rather rare.
Also, have you lied during this game?

They are rare, aren't they.

If I had lied so far this game then it would be for a good pro-town cause. Also if I had lied, then I would have something in mind with which to use that lie against scum. If that is the case then I wouldn't disclose it. But no, I haven't lied during this game.

[Junpei]

Oversoul, here's what I do. While I"m reading I take a note(in notepad or word) of everything I think is important/interesting and label it. I have a specific way of taking notes that I'm not going to disclose, but basically keeping track of things through notes helps a ton with catching up. You don't even have to keep track of everyone individually. Just know what has happened and everything that is of worthy importance and you'll do fine.

Pine, sounds good man, just try to find ways to post every now and again. If you are able to give some more reads/suggestions and interact with everyone you'll do fine and your record should stay intact.

[Junpei]

But silver...

*glances at previous post he posted*

I think your misunderstanding me. He's the 6th person on my list... that doesn't mean he's ranked 6.

There are no other spots to rank him other than sixth or worse. How can he be the start of the show if he is ranked any lower than that?

[Junpei]

-\
-Jun
Are you actually asking me this... I'm going to count on your intelligence to figure it out for yourself but feel free to request an answer again and I shall.

I request an answer again.

[Junpei]

Silver I don't understand. Just be straight and non-sarcastic with me.

[Junpei]

....

Nero is the 6th person on my list. This does not mean he's ranked sixth as scummy.
Just as I have 2 people tied for second. I have 2 people tied for first.
Do you understand...

Then why did you arrange your list in such a terrible way?

Why would you include someone in fourth place but not the person who is tied for first? No where do you indicate that he is tied for first in that post. The seems mostly arbitrary.

[Junpei]

Silver. You said that you had two people tied for first but according to your list this isn't he case. So this leads me to imply that you left someone out who was tied for first.

As far as your Nero vote goes it doesn't make sense as your 1 quote logic for it is poor. You took a snip of his ISO and called him scum without regarding the rest.

[Junpei]

silverdrummer: Properly rank the six players on your list, from 1 to 6 where 1 is the scummiest player and 6 is the least scummiest, without any ties, and present a larger case on Nero Cain, since he is the "star of the show."

Why are you insisting that he not include ties?

Not everyone uses your point system.

Tell me vollkan, if two people have 62 on your scorecard does that mean they are both equally scummy to you? If you think about it and from what I've examined from your points you are inconsistent with what warrants how many points. There is always a rank you can give people if you must.

[Junpei]

Of the current wagons, Zinger is town, Silver is town, DavidX is most likely town.

Needs less votes on those wagons.

You can't just say that, you have to explain why. There's a pretty strong case against Zinger.

[Junpei]

Well I can just say it. I did, too. It was very easy.

There's a pretty strong case against you, too, but most people are ignoring it because you claimed tracker. What's your point?

Are you saying I haven't explained why I think Zinger is town? Or are you asking me to explain the other two?

I'm more interested in why people

aren't

reading them as town. DavidX votes I could maybe understand, but Silver hasn't really done much to warrant the votes IMO. I've played with the cj head of silver a few times, and he has a tendency to make really scummy posts, regardless of alignment. The silver head, on the other hand, reads pretty strongly as town.

Are you seriously playing the stupid card?

My case against me consists of Vifam's idiocy and a BW on him. Yes I claimed tracker (a role by the way that doesn't not make sense with my previous actions, unlike Zinger), and tracker is very confirmable as the days go on (unlike what Zinger claimed). Your explanation for why Zinger is town is basically this. "HE WOULDNT DO DAT AS SCUM OR THIRD PARTY I KNO AND HE WOULD DO THAT CUS HE'S DUMB AS FUCK AND TOWN". And that argument isn't convincing. Stop acting like you don't know why people are voting him, because if that's honest then it shows that you aren't really reading the thread. I can't think of many reasons why you would pretend to read the thread when you aren't.

[Junpei]

@junpei,

If I hadn't seen a game of yours in which you've played like this as town, I'd assume you're scum, independent of Vifam's idiocy. Your push on Zinger looks really, really scummy and your lack of scum hunting in general while pushing Zinger makes it worse.

Every post you've made is Zinger this, Zinger that. What are you going to do if Zinger is town?

If Zinger is town then I'll apply what I've learned from this day while examining others to find a different scum. I don't always tunnel people, but Zinger is way too obvious and I can't let it pass.

I have been scumhunting, I take very nice notes. Also my push on Zinger has logic and reasoning making it not so scummy as you assume. Finally ever post I've made has not been about Zinger.

So basically your whole post regarding me is bs.

[Junpei]

ThreeIsFrench is definitely up there for the reasons I've stated before. And it's even worse now that he hasn't posted.

ZeL1nK is scummy because he is an anonymous Hydra who makes a lot of incoherent reads and seems to have a goal in mind when saying things. This goal seems to be more personal-driven than collective-driven.

Meran is now towny for posting more and proving some existence the past 20 pages or so. I like his contributions a lot and it is something to look forward to if he survives.

Vezok is scummy because she BW'd on both Vifam and Zinger without giving any concrete reasoning to add. This wouldn't be as bad if the rest of her posts weren't of little content.

Zinger is very scummy, for reasons stated.

Can't really read Pine, not enough there.

Oversoul I actually like. I thought I wouldn't based on his early play but his big post on reads makes sense, and I can understand his lack of content as he is in a bunch of other games. So far he seems honest while at the same time scumhunting.

Andrew94 is scummy because his posts are incoherent. I'm sorry but I don't understand you most of the time. Can anyone translate his posts for me?

Easjo is not even part of this game, practically getting replaced, null.

MagnaOfIllusion is town because he is giving a strong effort to scumhunt despite being V/LA on weekends. I haven't investigated him a lot though, I just looked at his posts as good scumhunting attempts and figured he was good for d1 town.

PeregrineV asks a lot of questions 1 on 1 without actually giving results of his 'scumhunting' and not being relevant through the whole day. I don't like it, so he is scummy.

Pappums Leather Jacket seems like scum to me too because he is always seeming like his posts are too calculated and almost forced in some instances. They're too prepared and scum like to do that to make sure they didn't mess up or hint anything.

chkballin is town for a lot of scumhunting and giving his reads, as well as being an open hydra.

crappy isn't relevant at all, null. But.. PvT slate is there with a few posts, and they are pretty much all during RQS, he does express dislike for the Vifam wagon though. Not sure what to make of it.

marco1610 is scummy for posts that seem to be anti-sheepBW while not providing much content (hello ZeL1nK)

David Xantos is town for dismantling arguments he is in and providing strong logic and reasoning. I also don't like how stringy cases are made against him.

vollkan is town due to his system of points that will be very easy to see if he's abusing. It's a clear tunnel into his brain and that is something scum wouldn't give for free like that, if he's scum it'll be easy to tell later in the game.

LeonShade is scummy for defending himself fervently while not really contributing to topics of conversation not involving himself. Even if we do say that his logic on his counter-arguments are clear.

ThAdmiral is town, once again I don't have a lot on him because I haven't been paying close attention to him. However I like how he says Zinger is at L-2 for us and that he is at the very least trying to spark scumhunting conversation.

Silverbullet999 is scummy for several inconsistencies which still haven't be sorted out and his tunneling without using anymore logic.

killerjester is town because he was very open with his thoughts and was willing to accept he was wrong. That combined with a display of ability to a decent degree makes me think he's genuine.

Nero Cain is town for his voting patterns while having some reasoning to back it up that I can accept.

Pinky and the Brain is town because he puts in an enormous amount of effort that is backed with logic that doesn't seem forced. His voting is really back and forth but as long as I can see why he did it and it makes sense I'm okay.

izakthegoomba is scum for his hardcore BWing on the Vifam and Zinger wagons. Although I like his other conversation overall.

Chevre I really haven't analyzed yet. I know this is my third person I haven't analyzed at all but It's day 1 and pretty early at that. Wasn't expecting to have to paraphrase everything this early.

Rodion seems like the towny who doesn't really know what he's doing, probably the current VI. I don't like a lot of his logic.


There you go, mostly paraphrased through my notes and some if it was stuff I wrote up just now without much use of my notes. Enjoy your 26 or so basic reads.


In a Zinger town flip I'd say that you're scum for defending him so hard. There is the scum that defends his partner in a way that seems like scum wouldn't possibly do it, and there's the scum that goes with the BW. You could very well be the former, trying to protect us against a lynch you know is town. Although I am not going to stand by that read a month from now unless time permits.

[Junpei]

Also, to reiterate the question:

Zinger, why did you lie and say that you use this site as your testing ground to do things that you wouldn't do on other sites, when other games prove that that is not the case? What was the purpose that that lie?

[Junpei]

@junpei: your reasoning for saying im scummy is : 'for being incoferant'. i triple explained the last point that you didnt get, and thats the only point that you didnt understand. how is that incoherant lol. sounds like your exaggerating badly
@junpei: part of your reasoning for chkballing being town is because he is an 'open hydra'. wut?
@junpei: for volkan, that reasoning is flawed. the last game i played with him he used the system and he was scum.

david and junpei looks suspicious posting walls one after the other.
@david: i have solid reads
@david: im not tunneling heavily on chkballing. i also have other suspects.

oversoul
leon
easjo
etc

Being an open hydra shows openness with town. It doesn't prove he's town but it's early day 1 small reads and that is something that is towny.

Yeah I realize now that that was a stupid point, I still think though that it will be a lot easier to catch scum-Volkan with such an opening into his mind.

Alright Andrew, lets go through your terrible ISO.

Spoiler: Andrew ISO

reading through, easjo682 first post is very sus. if you look at it. you will know it is wrong.

also, oversoul is not as clueless as she pretends to be. that dude was obviously joking

Easjo's first post said he was against character claims. Is that what you meant? That's scummy? Explain.

chkballing classic scum, posting huge wall of reads. i looked at some of them 'andrew lurking scum'. thats your reason?

early claim is null

magna post 308 town tell
leon post 307 scum tell. no unvote?

Scum = huge wall of reads? Just because you're lazy and refuse to even read walls enough to grasp the understandings of them doesn't mean that only scum use them. But I guess now me and David X are scum in your opinion too right? I noticed you haven't mentioned anything on it, if you think that's classic scum then shouldn't you be voting one of us? How about when Vifam posted his reads? You didn't vote him for that.

im pretty sure zingers not telling us the full thing.
i.e. theres 24 people in this game, and normally 1 lynch per day and 2 night kills at night.
this makes ur winning chance like 1%.
bS

Yeah andrew... we said this a while back...

i think zinger noted that many of us had said that with his claim, the chances of him winning are close to zero.
therefore, he claimed town JK.
dont think we should lynch him.

unvote vote chkballing

did you see hes last post?

What the fuck does this mean? He noticed that we said his win con was near impossible. So he claimed town JK. So we shouldn't lynch him? That's your reasoning?

1) he basically said what i said before and many others have said. then he sits on the fence
2) cos zinger change claim to town pr

1) You do that too

2) That's another common argument, proves my first point.

you see, at L1 people claim.
if we are not lynching people who claim a pr, then who are we gonna lynch
scum can claim pr as well you know

This post. You say that we should lynch a town PR at some point, yet earlier you said that your reasoning for not voting Zinger was that he claimed a town PR.

@ThreeisFrench You posted reads on 3 people, yet you listed 5 names. Regardless there are 26 people here other than you. That post isn't enough.

[Junpei]

1 - His original JK claim has the possibility of allowing him to live a lot. Why?
a) Town could not kill him and gamble that the reward of permanently blocking a scum player would outweigh the risk of permanently blocking a town PR (lynch avoided).
b) Mafia could not kill him and gamble that the reward of permanently blocking a town PR would outweigh the risk of permanently blocking a scumbuddy (NK avoided).

I said it twice and I'll say it a third time. I don't think his play was good if he really is a town JK, but you

CANNOT

say his strategy makes

ZERO SENSE.

3 - You're wrong. Period. That is the definition of a double-edged sword, not necessarily "pro", not necessarily "anti".

4 - Wrong again. He was being accused.

#753 - Junpei basically says he's anti-town because he is a roleblocker
#783 - Meransiel said his JK claim is opportunistically scummy

You think he is not entitled to a defense?

5 - I think I understood the claim better than you did.

6 - You are absolutely correct here. Obviously, that does not mean I'm wrong, since your "6" does not go against anything I said.

7 - Oh my god. You suck.

1) That is the dumbest thing ever. This isn't poker, we don't take shitty gambles and say "fuck it" and let him live. The safe thing to do is to kill him, and that is what we were going to do, and that's what pretty much any town would do day 1.

4) They were discussing whether or not there's a good chance for a mafia jailkeeper or not. Someone may have said "you could be mafia JK" and then he was trying to somehow prove that wrong, but there's no way he could. It's just a way to derail the thread and make it seem like defending. But he may have been genuinely responding to Meran.

6) The argument was on the topic of mafia Jailkeepers

[Junpei]

1 - The safe thing is not necessarily the best.

4 - Skimming much? That is not how it happened. It was actually the opposite. Meransiel basically said "JKs are always town, so claiming JK is opportunistically scummy", to which Zinger correctly replied that he has seen mafia JKs before.

6 - Yes, it was. And you saying that "there is no way to determine at the moment whether there is a mafia JK in this game" is absolutely correct. What I said is that what you wrote is not a good reply against anything I had said before, since I never disputed the impossibility of knowing if we have a mafia JK D1.

My next post will continue my reads.

1) So you'd assume that town would take a huge unnecessary gamble?

4) Yes. How about I do this for you. Meran: JKs are always town, mafia would claim JK for that reason. Zinger: I'm town and JK so sure, but I'm not mafia, can't really give you actual proof I'm not, besides town JK would also claim town JK.

Instead it went: Meran: JKs are always town, mafia would claim JK for that reason. Zinger: There are also mafia JKs.

They go on to argue on the topic of mafia JKs, tell me that is not pointless.

[Junpei]

There are a few things that I have to have slated in a post so that it will get addressed.

1)

Re: Zinger question

I hope that this site will eventually show him the ropes to being a competitive mafia player.

You only learn by making mistakes pal.

I use these forums to do all the stupid things I would never consider doing on the other forums where I play mafia so that I can see first hand why doing that is a bad idea without screwing with my rep on the site that I take the game seriously.

Also, something about the format or layout of these boards makes it so that I can't look at it for an extended period of time without feeling dizzy, so I couldn't really play seriously here if I wanted to. All I can ever do is skim reads.

Things you would never consider doing eh? They'd mess up your reputation that you take the game seriously?

Also, to reiterate the question:

Zinger, why did you lie and say that you use this site as your testing ground to do things that you wouldn't do on other sites, when other games prove that that is not the case? What was the purpose that that lie?

It is true that I use this site as a testing grounds to learn more about the game and become better at it.

That doesn't mean I would simply do random crap to throw games for no reason. What could I possibly learn from that?

No, I still try to win. But there's always exceptions to every rule (for example, never lie as town), and here on this site I try to find that exception (to better understand the rule). That doesn't mean I just plan to throw games with no regard for my win-con or my team. You misinterpret what I meant I think.

Oh so now you're saying it isn't that bad at all. Why the sudden change in explanations?

2) To people saying that I am exaggerating my arguments at many points, please take one post to point them out in detail. It is the largest part of the argument against me and is something I'd love to address. I can explain all my actions I've made in this game and would gladly do so for you anytime.

3) ZeL1nK fervently believes that Zinger is stupid town. By that I mean he thinks zinger is both stupid and town. So now the question becomes, has Zinger shown us evidence that he is indeed not stupid? Or perhaps that he isn't town? Perhaps evidence that hes changed since the deceleration that ZeL1nK made? There are many things to watch as the day goes on. I don't think that Zinger is stupid town. I'd be more likely to believe that Zinger is mafia who was upset and didn't care about this game before, however something happened to him(irl or on his other forum) and now he cares more about the game, so he's trying to salvage it. I don't know if he's mafia or thirdparty, but he is definitely one of them.

4) thAdmiral at the start of your post you mentioned "cross-posting" which implies contradictory lines of thought and posting, presumably by David X, however you have shown no clear evidence of that in your post. Sure there may be some scummy things you pointed out, but none that were cross-posting. Can you explain why you mixed that up?

5) Andrew yes you were the first one to point that out, I'm sorry I thought I had read someone else say it.

I'm against a character claim for now, I can't see it helping town so there's no point.

That's fencesitting to you andrew? Basically says that s/he's against character claims, no fencesitting there.

"I was thinking if he wasn't then he wouldnt change back?". That is what you said, and I have no clue how that discredits what I said in any way, once again please reiterate what you said so I can understand it easier.

Okay, if it's a rhetorical question then that would imply that you're saying we have to lynch someone who claims PR. Which was exactly what I was trying to point out, you contradicted yourself from earlier.

edit: I acciedently let out the Rodion thing before the rest of this, I forgot to c/p... Whatever.

[Junpei]

Oh yeah that reminds me, the inconsistency that I was referring to silverdrummer was that you and your two heads seemed to be on different terms and lines of reasoning than each other. You blamed your other head for something and then later tell us that he flaked. However soon after that the other head comes and says that he hasn't flaked. There seem to be some hydra shenanigans going on and I don't like it.

[Junpei]

Nero Cain I just looked through your ISO, I see references to Vifam but I don't see my name really show up anywhere. Could you be more specific for me on what you want my thoughts on?

[Junpei]

Well I've been over-active (which is my biggest flaw as a player which I still haven't fixed) with something like a hundred or so posts, so it's not a stretch to think that I'd be a part of your posts a lot, especially seeing as I've been a big topic what with my claim, my scummy predecessor, my support in the Zinger wagon, as well as various other small topics.

I'm' more surprised looking back that you didn't comment on that fact that ThreeIsFrench only posted 12 reads and his read for Leon was basically a line of meta. Yet despite that ThreeIsFrench asks EVERYONE what their reads are. This is even more odd seeing as there are like 50 posts with cases on Leon.

[Junpei]

@junpei: i was saying if he was actually lying, he would have kept lying.

So then what if he still is lying?

[Junpei]

@junpei,

If I hadn't seen a game of yours in which you've played like this as town, I'd assume you're scum, independent of Vifam's idiocy. Your push on Zinger looks really, really scummy and your lack of scum hunting in general while pushing Zinger makes it worse.

Every post you've made is Zinger this, Zinger that. What are you going to do if Zinger is town?

In this post ZeL1nK says that he thinks my Zinger lynch is scummy. However this is odd because I did so with

a ton of self confidence

. This is ignoring the fact that he is ignoring my attacks on Meran and Andrew as well as all my other posts that I"ve made that aren't in regards to Zinger.

- The self-confidence displayed in his push on Pine. My opinion on why this makes him look town is because I'm of the opinion that all of the main wagons are town wagons, and he hasn't taken the opportunity to move to any of them. Instead,

arrogantly

pushes the Pine wagon with posts like #435 and #503 (also the part directed at "Rest of Town" reads as town, too).
^ This point is what most strongly cements him as town in my mind.

Now it's a town tell to push hard on a wagon? You even say arrogantly so even if you don't agree with my logic it should still be a town tell for you.

This shows that Zinger is doing two things. The first is double-standard scumhunting which isn't scumhunting at all. It is when scum says something is a town tell on one level but a scum tell on the same level with a different person. It's caused in an attempt to form an identity. Which brings me to the second thing he is trying to do, which is form the identity that he is the defender of the two wagons, Silver and Zinger. Most likely so that he doesn't have to choose sides.

[Junpei]

Pre-emptive defenses in arguments and debate especially show an understand of the content and that he's aware of what is going on. I have used premptive defenses all the time as town, it is just something I will do if I see something obvious that the opponent is going to say. It is only natural to set-up the other person debating with you in a position where it is least likely that he will win, I call it smart play, you call it scummy.

[Junpei]

@Everyone voting me:

will you pledge to eat your hat when I flip town? Kthxbai.

Nope, I will do not comply to the requests of scum, by the way, that is an amazing defense. "Eat your hat if im town k?".

In this post ZeL1nK says that he thinks my Zinger lynch is scummy. However this is odd because I did so with

a ton of self confidence

.

Of course you were. After all, as scum you can afford to be as confident as you like, right?

As town, you should always have some doubts. Being too confident is a scumtell.

I'm confident because I'm confident in my strong read of scum from you. And my post was about dissonance in ZeL1nK's post. You took what I said out of context and assumed that you understand the situation when you don't.

[Junpei]

We don't believe that Junpei's habitual extreme and disproportionate self-assurance is in any way a scumtell. We think he genuinely believes he's smarter than everyone else.

You're one person who I would expect to hear that from.

However I will inform you that I do not believe I'm smarter than everyone else rather that I believe that I've found something that shouldn't be disregarded. Don't take my extreme confidence as "he thinks he knows the truth because he's of the opinion he is smarter than us", rather take it as me trying to squeeze information out of the situation. As shown with the Meran example, I have no problems swiftly changing my opinion of someone if proven wrong, even if it isn't actual proof rather events that imply my thought was wrong.

Although I wasn't aware you had joined us.

[Junpei]

So that's you and Leonshade not reading the game then... interesting.

Just checked, Jason never said The Fonz was replacing in, the OP also doesn't reflect this.

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK given what countless others have repeated and said about Zinger, Zinger is NOT an obvious mislynch, stop acting like you're allknowing. It is unsettling when someone pretends to know more than they should.

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK, know he is not.

Explain how he is an obvious mislynch because as it stands there are some convincing cases against him.

[Junpei]

ZeL1nK I don't understand why you're using this logic.

You say that the only reasoning behind the Zinger lynch is that he claimed third party.

First of all, it is also his scummy behavior, his lie which makes no sense, his doctor fakeout claim, then finally the fact that at the end of it he ends up claiming JK of all things.

Your reasoning is that Zinger is so stupid that it has to be a town failed gambit because it can't be a failed scum gambit. THAT LOGIC WORKZ LOL. Face it, it makes no sense as any alignment except for possibly third party if he thought that he could lie about his role and get a free pass. It was a poorly formed 3rdparty gambit more than a failed town gambit.

[Junpei]

Zlinger.

I came to a conclusion based on logic and reasoning, I didn't just say something and then get mad when people said I was wrong (ahem Zllinger/ZeL1nK). ZeL1nK's reasoning is that you're an idiot and I just proved it incorrect by showing why you being an idiot and doing that makes more sense as third party (allbeit little sense even still).

You still haven't properly addressed my question. What have you done in other games that is as drastic as this one? You called MS your personal testing ground to do shit that you wouldn't dare do on your other forum site. I saw nothing extreme in any of those games.

EXPLAIN

[Junpei]

Well, if he's retracted his third party claim, then we have to accept that he has not presented any kind of justification for the kind of behavior that got him wagoned in the first place, because he's retracted the explanation he did offer.

Yes I did. My explanation is that I was trying to convince the mafia team that I wasn't a threat so that I could maximize my potential at screwing with them (via protecting a town target or roleblocking a mafia target, as a JK does).

I said this more than once. It was reiterated by others more than once. You need to re-read the thread I think.

So Jailkeeper is more important than tracker or cop? Oh okay, if that's your thought then your actions align with what you just said. If not then they don't make sense.

[Junpei]

I want it to be on record that I think Junpei is Mafia-Aligned, and once I flip town tomorrow everyone should gang-rape him. kthxbai.

Excellent case you have there against me... And convincing last request, anyone else think that this post and others scream "mafia who has given up?". Silvers posts have a very similar ring to it, well the one where he goes "better me than him". As a lastattempt gambit, although I don't feel like Silver has the heat needed for that, it may be preemptive.

Also for the record Zlinger even if you do flip town my pride and ego won't be shaken, now stop your silly AtE and actually contribute lest you get lynched. You claim you're town? How about you do some scumhunting and actually help generate conversation ACTIVELY instead of having people talk about you and then you going "im not mafia u are idiot i hope you all die".

[Junpei]

Just curious, but Junpei, do you know how to not multipost? It's really annoying to see three or four posts of yours in a row.

-diddin

1) Nero this is one issue, I multi-post too much. Also Nero look at my post count. Now look at everyone else's. I've played 1 newbie game 1 speed game and this game. I got flak in my noob game for being over-active and in my offsite games I posted too much too. The issue is that I am always very active at the getgo so I am often the pillar of conversation. What this does is that it creates a situation where whenever I have free time I have to the thread and continue these debates and conversations of scumhunting so that I can keep the game moving, as I am a big part of the conversation. The problem arises when I trap other players out of conversation by creating basically a circle-focus talk of a certain amount of players that blocks others out as they can't contribute to the given conversation which basically takes priority. That is a flaw.

2) Yes Pinky I'm sorry I apologize, although you wasted a post saying that I'd appreciate it if next time you would not say that until you're going to make a content post, and then put it at the bottom.

let's get a move on this...

VOTE: Silver

If you have any issues with any player, and you have a night action- sort them out during the night. This is just becoming tiring and I agree that everyone needs to pick someone.

~

BALLIN

Yes that makes sense, just do it at night! We have that thing... what's it called.. coordination? Oh wait we're town in a closed setup so no we don't have that, we can't rely on night actions. We can anticipate night actions and act accordingly, but by your logic Zinger is the same as Silver in a lynch as we can kill the other at night. I don't like this because I think that andrew is getting scummier and while I get stronger scum tells from Zinger I want to investigate andrew more today.

[Junpei]

Alright Silver I agree what you said about picking it up, scumhunting, and not lynching so soon.

I am not spamming this thread I am scumhunting. I know I have a lot of posts that might not be evident of that directly but it is clear that I am helping town move forward. I have many flaws as a player but I'd like you to just look at what I'm doing so that you can stop complaining about me 'stagnating the thread away from scumhunting'. I am not doing this, or at least not on purpose, as I am currently analyzing everything, specifically on Zinger and andrew, but they take time to respond to

Zinger: I've been discrediting you since the moment you claimed third party, so don't try to twist this around like that. Your hunt is meaningless because you don't even state basic reasons for your FoS.

Random vig shots? Self voting(which game exactly? I'm going to reread a large part of that game you were in to see how the self voting went on etc)? That some how escalates to this? Assuming it does I still am convinced that you're 3rdparty/scum.

[Junpei]

What the... more votes on Silver than the obvious Zlinger?

So Jailkeeper is more important than tracker or cop?

This is a scummy mis-rep at

1139

. Nowhere in the quote of Zinger’s post does he come even close to saying Jailkeepers are more important thank information roles.

--

Not a misrep. He says that he did what he did so that he, the jailer, wouldn't be the target of night kills. What this would do is increase the odds that a nightkill hits on an information role, thus he must believe that the odds of his safety are more important than the odds of our however many informative roles' safety. Not to mention if he could have just made himself not a scumtarget instead of screwing over town this way (if he's town).

oh god, every time i refresh the page its like 5 more pages lmao

Gah silverbullet is so obvscum, but zinger still needs to die 100% chance vs 75%, seriously; theres no way hes town

This is horribly scummy. He says "obv 100% scum, and "75% scum needs2die". He presents no reasoning, and is obviously NOT keeping up, at the very least he's looking at the votals and at the most he is skimming every other page while reading a book at the same time.

Also I wish that the hiplop hydra would stay under 1 name... now we are forced to iso two names and piece it together, ugh, if I ever mod a game I'm banning hydras.

[Junpei]

Hey everypony.

Vote Zinger

This day should have ended in his lynch about 20 pages ago. Plus silver has town telled a little.

I know you've recently come into the game, but perhaps you could elaborate on the silver town tells?

Also really any other reads that you feel like you want to announce at this point please do so as well, all input is good input unless it is clearly -EV town.

If I think of anything else I'll let ya know, welcome to our game. Oh, and why do you think that the game should have ended 20 pages ago? I understand the claim, however that implies that you are a fan of ending days as soon as you feel you know mafia, without gathering further information/prolonging the day. Am I correct in this assumption?

[Junpei]

If every post is a reiteration of that, then you will be no help for the town. I understand wanting the day to end in a Zlinger lynch, I feel the same , however we must advocate for said lynch and be active in doing so, saying "this is what i want now u do" won't get anything done. Besides you're a new player and we have no idea what to think of you, giving us content is the best way for town to understand you, and that is something you should want. Scum getting reads on what will happen are fine, we can anticipate their thoughts and understand their kills.

[Junpei]

You don't seem to understand. Within these 27 people during these town meetings are scum. They get the exact same information as us, as a result town cannot get any information from these meetings that scum can't too. So the more in the dark we leave scum the more in the dark we are. They are the informed minority, these is their advantage, they will have it no matter what and there will always be predictions of who is more lynchable. It is already clear who those people are. The fact of the matter is that we can understand why someone was killed using setup-scenario knowledge and what happened the previous days.

Remaining silent like you're suggesting is -EV town and makes the days events completely out of your hands. If you're town that is bad.

[Junpei]

You don't seem to understand. Within these 27 people during these town meetings are scum. They get the exact same information as us, as a result town cannot get any information from these meetings that scum can't too. So the more in the dark we leave scum the more in the dark we are.

Town roles are inherantly designed to be better shot in the dark powers though. A cop can catch scum if they spend five hours looking over posts or go to a RNG, a town RBer can catch a lucky shot in the dark, a watcher can be hovering over the right person. These results are still very powerful in the long run even when targeting at random, while most inherantly scum roles are counters for town roles. To be most productive they need to have ideas of where the town roles are, which is why people try to push lynch all vanilla claims to protect those town roles.

But scum could also get lucky and hit strong PRs too right? Information is merely a factor in determining how lucky you'll get when it comes to selecting night kills and tracks/cops/saves. Point in case is that staying quiet doesn't help either side.

Remaining silent like you're suggesting is -EV town and makes the days events completely out of your hands. If you're town that is bad.

Im not remaining silent, im getting Zinger lynched, which is all that is extremely important about my suspicions.

You aren't doing anything but putting up an almost meaningless vote. You aren't advocating for the lynch. If you were then we'd be discussing how scummy what Zlinger has done is and why he's mafia/third party rather than town, instead we're discussing what YOU'RE doing and now I have to think how scummy I think this is instead.

Also@Hydra... Is the hydra NA1 and Hiplop?

[Junpei]

Also off site experience is important to know about, so tell us if you have any.

[Junpei]

Hmm... No I would say that my role flavor does not back my role of Tracker.

This makes me wonder about Zlingers' flavorclaim and how it had perfect flavor backing though when he claimed third party JK.

[Junpei]

And.. a fresh revelation there..

What exactly do you mean? Doesn't it, you know, tell you what you can do?

My flavor, as in my characters bio, doesn't outline a tracker at all. That is assuming that a tracker is someone who follows people at night to see where they've been.

[Junpei]

...I missed something so obvious, ugh, this is particularly annoying because it goes against my entire framework of how I play, but I suppose I'm still not as good as I'd like.

Anyways great point, I wish I had seen it before, although even if I had I wouldn't have brought it up right away. The reason being that it was possible that he did that for the purpose of using it later on (for when he announced he was in fact Town JK) to say "hey look, role PMs dont have flavor backing but my post says my claim did, so that's how I prove it was fake". However once he claimed and has been given lots of time to say that, it no longer is something he should withhold if he had done it. So your bringing this up now is actually great timing, and should be a nail in the coffin for Zlinger.

[Junpei]

One minor point here.. let's not get buried in the assumption that all roles have completely unrelated flavour. Either by coincidence or mod planning there could a few that fit together nicely. It is a nice catch though, let's just not rely on it as infallible.

I'm nearly defending Zinger.. I feel.. dirty somehow.

Come on now man, did you read his claimed PM?

I am a Self-Aligned Jailkeeper. Each night I can target someone and jail them. They are both roleblocked and protected that night. I can only do this to each player once.

If I target a specific player, they are instead permanently roleblocked and I am removed from the game with a win.

If that player dies before I get a chance to do this I can no longer win (but remain in the game until it ends or I die).

The flavor is such that I have a deal with the local jail warden (he owes me a favor). He locks up people I chose so I can go into their homes and rob them while they aren't home. A certain someone has something in their home which will be extremely valuable and allows me to give up my life of crime and live the big life.

His flavor specifically says that he is associated with a JAILKEEPER and that he JAILS people that ZLINGER CHOOSES and that ONE PERSON whom ZLINGER MIGHT CHOSE has an ITEM that will allow him to live the big life(ergo win).

[Junpei]

Yes, I know that, but for one, he's paraphrasing, and secondly, I'm not saying his flavour isn't fake. I'm making a minor note about going down the thought-track of "all roles have unrelated flavour". If I didn't believe Zinger was Hostile 3rd/Scum, I wouldn't have my vote on him.

I'm sorry I thought you were referring to this specific case, but yes I agree that roles may have related flavor. I recall someone said a lot earlier that someone was Spider man with the role neighborizer. Needless to say... Your Friendly NEIGHBORHOOD Spiderman!

edit: I just had a thought, Zlinger claimed his flavor immediately with his third party claim but not with his town JK claim. Also I have no idea of a TV character that fits the bio which Zlinger provided earlier.

Rainbowdash are you claiming Earl?

[Junpei]

Hello all, I have a lot of catching up to do. Can someone please give me a quick jist of this game.

Uhh...

Zlinger claimed earl

Vifam was put at L-2, I replaced in, claimed Tracker

Zlinger claimed thirdparty JK

Zlinger crazyclaims doc(i guess?)

Zlinger claims Town JK

Oh and since I showed up it has basically been a giant brawl of wagons primarily silver and Zlinger with some inquiries into others such as Andrew. So the day isn't going as open as I'd like (two people are put up on the chop block atm) but since one of them is my guy I think it isn't too bad at all. I don't see how the Silver arguments are stronger than the Zlinger ones, but I think we may have caught Zlinger once and for all.

[Junpei]

so many so many pages.
@junpei, any other reasons for why i am scum?
as i said a million times (and you understood) zinger firstly didnt need to claim at all, secondly, didnt need to change his claim, and again etc. im also pretty sure his earl claim was a joke?
@rainbow, no point crying over how day should have ended 20 pages ago.

Respond to...

@junpei: i was saying if he was actually lying, he would have kept lying.

So then what if he still is lying?

Also where did "other reasons for why I am scum?" Come up? Between your last post and now I've stated no reasons why you're scum, seems out of place. I'm really not sure if you're mafia or just... disadvantaged. Is english your first language?

[Junpei]

unvote vote silver

respond to stuff when i get back

Also explain the vote when you get back.

Silver, I was in Setal's Speed Mafia with Pine. He told me that he had a busy work schedule and was getting a ton of extra shifts. The mafia QT Setal posted at the end will confirm this. I expect that he had too many real life commitments that were suddenly springing up which is why he has been flaking.

[Junpei]

@JLunpei,

Stop calling me Zlinger. It's ZINGER.

There is no L.

Asking someone who has no respect for you to do something fully for the sake of your preference is idiotic because all it will do is cause that person to not do it in spite of you.

Also answer my question.

[Junpei]

@Zinger:

If Junpei is wrong for being "allknowing" and incessantly insisting that you are scum, is ZeL1nk wrong for incessantly insisting that you are town?

I didn't notice that ZeL1nK was so incessantly insisting that I was town. I believe he thinks I am town, but I do not think he is as '100% sure' as JLunpei seems to be about my scum status.

However, if ZeL1nK did indeed insist that I am guaranteed town, this would be equally erroneous because he has no way of knowing that for sure.

I am town though.

So...

"Yeah but I"m town and Junpei says I'm not and so hes' mafia and wrong and well zeL1nK says I'm town and well it's erroneous but you know he's probably not mafia he just really believes it and such and yeah"

Zinger you're being contradictory again, to be clear you think that ZeL1nK is scummy based on his incessant insisting that you're town right?

Pedit: Okay I will no longer call you zlinger, answer the question, zinger

[Junpei]

No, I do not think ZeL1nK is scummy. I was simply answering someone's question. If they feel that ZeL1nK believes me to be guaranteed town, either they are wrong or ZeL1nK is. I am not guaranteed anything.

When I get lynched I will be guaranteed town.

I don't believe you're guaranteed thirdparty/mafia just the most likely out of all our options.


Answer my question.

[Junpei]

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 2#p3285912

I realize now my question wasn't clear, but how does what you did in previous games escalate to this?

Also, what are your thoughts on what we said earlier regarding your flavorclaim and that whole discussion?

[Junpei]

First of all, no one quick hammer just yet please. For the time being lets assume people who quickhammer are scum.

Junpei - Vifam was scummy and replaced out under pressure. Junpei claimed Tracker and then started burying the argument under walls of text like a cat trying to hide the evidence in the litter box.

Alright, I buryed the argument under walls of text? Explain how I did that, because there wasn't much argument against my slot if you honestly think about it. I began to scumhunt like a respectable towny, my 'walls of text' are useful and I keep them to a minimum for people like you and andrew.

A) You say that when someone claims 3rd party they should be lynched, and you have no reason to believe Zinger was gambiting, BUT his play in previous games has proven his willingness to take what seem like stupid risks

B) You say there is no reason for him to claim 3rd party as town, BUT what reason does he have to claim 3rd party if he is indeed 3rd party or scum?

[quote

A) Not really, considering what a huge risk this is in comparison and the fact that if he is scum/third party it would explain the difference between his town-risks.

B) So that he could later claim Town JK and come off as a stupid townie I guess. Not a smart gambit once again but it can't be missed.

Meran's post to me was like "Yeah, it's a scum tell, so what? I'm not scum.", which was like a snarky post which is understandable given how (if you reread) I was hounding him.

I didn't know Vifam name claimed, but yes, I confirm Captain Ben Sisko.

I find Silver scummy because
1) His head situation was crazy as fuck, but now with one flaking I don't know really what to think on that

2) He tunneled Pine for flaking hard, for no reason at all. In fact I find it odd that he found Pine hardflaking more suspicious than the fact that Vifam swapped out at L-2.

3) Similar to 2, most of his posting is in regards to Pine, and when he offers himself up over Zinger I knew that something was up. I suspect double scum with Silver being a not-so-useful scum role.

Also honestly, I think that we need to stop whining about the page count. It is what it is, we can't assume there will be replacements because that's just a little bit silly. Perhaps there need to be game restrictions on some people (eg. may only join 1 game at a time) so they don't flake. The content is all there, I know that when it's day three with over 150 pages(>implying I live) that I won't reread the whole game straight across, I'll go in knowing what I'm looking for and seeing if it's there.

[Junpei]

@Junpei:

In fairness, I don't actually mind the walls of text in and of themselves. I'm guilty of the same thing with extensive PBPAs in some cases. I do note, however, that you have the highest post count of anyone in the game, and you're a replacement.

My objection was that there was a lot of discussion immediately prior to your entry into the game. You entered at post 306, said hi, claimed. From post 306 to post 357, you were responsible for twenty of the fifty-one posts, racking up approximately forty percent of all posts during that period. That seems excessive; I can understand it because you replaced in under pressure. But it did contribute to making the game longer without actually adding much to its clarity, imo. I do note that you have toned this down.

What would you consider a quickhammer at this point, anyway? That comment made me laugh

Banshee Setal's Speed mafia is one of two other games I've played here but I guess it's hard to judge my high post content based on the one day I was alive there. The other game should show that I have a flaw where I overpost everyone. This is partly because it is summer and I am passionate about the game of mafia, so whenever I have free time I will check on the thread, every time. This leads to me commenting on almost everything and in my opinion, adding to the conversation. I assure you though that I have a reason as to why every post is made and they pretty much all pertain to scumhunting.

And I just meant someone coming in and hammering without discussion. But I see the irony in it being a 55 page day so far.

drmyshotty in the sign up thread it said no jesters/cults.

[Junpei]

Lol k call me JunkPie I will gladly accept the pet-name you're giving me, although if you'll notice I agreed to call him Zinger, but this isn't an issue anyway.

Yes I know that it barely hurts info roles possibility of death, even if there are more than 2 info roles, but the thing is that he is basically saying that JK is more important than those, which I disagree with. By that logic I could see doctor doing this maybe, but JK? We don't want JK on information roles because they won't get information. I'd gladly have JK take the hit than plain doctor roles, info roles, mason roles, or pretty much any other town non-VT. I don't see how you wouldn't.

And to what you said @HipAdd, I could see third party/scum do this as a poor gambit, we don't know the scum PR roles, we don't quite understand their planning process yet so we can't assume that they wouldn't do that. We can however know that from a town standpoint where you do things to help the rest of town catch scum (a communist mindset) that it makes no sense and is counter-productive.

[Junpei]

Should be on record that I strongly dislike this way of doing things: seems to me that if the rolenames are completely irrelevant to the roles, then there's no actual point having them.

How else would he get this game classified as large theme over a large normal? Besides some people enjoy the flavor (I don't unless it is related to mechanics of the game but I don't mind it).

[Junpei]

ft through? It's like finding a needle in a haystack.

In shorter games, at least the needle is only in a small haypile.

In shorter games, there may not have been a needle dropped yet. In larger ones there could be many needles.

Zinger said that his role is more important that other roles when he made a gambit that would at best do nothing more than make him live and increase others' chance of death. Also increasing the chances of information roles' death isn't optimal play at this point. The two things are the same, you are really being foolish here and I would appreciate it if you would assess this argument and determine whether or not it is worth arguing over, if not then I'd like to quit cluttering up this thread with arguments that serve 0 purpose. These kinds of arguments don't help me scumhunt.

[Junpei]

If I were Leon it would, although I could go through that post and pick away at it proving you false and explaining my posts, I doubt you want to do that. Any case has flaws even those on scum, and while I am not scum I know that proving your case wrong won't prove my innocence. But if it would entertain people I will gladly do it.

I do find it odd that he has completely shifted from his grudgy "I'm angry at the world" attitude to his "I'm a polite and well mannered man".

[Junpei]

I wasn't angry at the world, I was angry at the abundance of arrogance I was viewing on these forums. I have said this more than once, you thought it to be untrue perhaps? Maybe you thought I was angry all the time?

I find that hard to believe considering you viewed my other games.

Your behavior earlier on in this game was angry, I pointed out earlier that I thought that behavior was odd considering your demeanor in other games. Now you are back to that. Regardless I don't think I will be able to draw any conclusion from it that will sway me from your lynch.

[Junpei]

unvote vote silver

respond to stuff when i get back

Also explain the vote when you get back.

as i said, i dont think zinger is lying, so im voting silver. silver was also suspicious for reasons i remembered i stated before but forgot.
english is NOT my first language.

also, im pretty sure you said i was scum somewhere.

I do think that you are scum, however perhaps not as much after learning that English isn't your first language.

Between the post where you ask me what ELSE I believe you're scummy for and the post before that, where you'll see we were only discussing your read on Zinger.

Also,

Moderator, is it against the rules to have Andrew post in his native language and have us use google translate? I have no clue if this is a bad question or not but I think it'd be easier to communicate with him if we could

Thirdly, how was easjo's first post fence sitting, I don't see it and this is where I'd like others' input to try and explain his reasoning or a mod-confirmation on if translations are allowed because this is the kind of incoherent thing that I'm talking about. I just simply can't understand him, although I will note that he did stop responding to this line of questioning at one point.

Lastly, how do you think that "lynching zinger is bad because he claimed town PR" but that "scum will always claim PR so who would we ever lynch?", which basically means that at some point day 1 we have to lynch a PR claim. It's contradictory.

[Junpei]

I skimmed a lot and I'll reread at n1, but just to point another thing out to a few of the naysayers of the Zinger wagon: If he's scum... then his little gambit worked on you, didn't it? I mean hell, look, it may be because it is such a stupid thing to do, but in the end he convinced you that he is town because of his gambit. Isn't that interesting how it worked on a good number of you? Of course it's possible he's town, or even third party, but food for thought.

[Junpei]

Also I wanted to say: Andrew I meant NO disrespect by that comment. I am probably just bad at understanding non-simply articulated English and that's what caused the confusion. I guess I'll try to understand you better next time. However you still need to pots more content because you still have contradicted yourself and still need to respond to my posts.

[Junpei]

Appeal to fear? Ugh, that's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. You think that my post is going to scare them into voting Zinger? You really think that? And you didn't even address what I said as a legitimate possibility of what happened, you completely ignored it.

Appeal to applesauce noted.

[Junpei]

Rodion's post implies that he'll have a vote down by the end of the day, but he doesn't post a vote until after the day is over. Just pointing out how he twisted his compliance with ThAdmirals' request.

[Junpei]

Rodion, you said in your post that you would comply with what ThAdmiral said and place a vote down before the end of the day. However you said this in a post that took place after the day ended and even acknowledged that a hammer had gone through in the same post.

[Junpei]

1) Since it's Twilight and not daytime I don't mind saying that I've watched a fair amount of MLP and it is the cancer of the internet. /b/ looks PG in comparison to that shit. I also find it extremely humorous that you come on an ALT and spout all this "ponies are us" stuff. It just shows how insecure you are about the whole thing to the point where you need to express this discomfort on an alt...

2) Town please do work during the night. I know that you might not live to the next day but that shouldn't stop you from preparing for the next day in any way you can.

That is all

[Junpei]

I've watched a fair amount of MLP

Joined : June 25, 2011
Gender:

Male

One of the above quotes is a lie.

My girlfriend made me, she used to watch it but she watched it mainly because it was fun to laugh at it with her friends I guess. But your post made me laugh.

[Junpei]

Silverdrummer

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 4#p3252654

I hint that there is a reason in an ongoing game that makes me feel like we should be more lenient on Pine's afking. Note that at the time I was only in one other game and it was with Pine, I felt that was pretty obvious. One look at the game would have shown that Pine was very absent from the game. Did you notice my post?

[Junpei]

Lol, focusing his efforts. Pine didn't put ANY effort into that game, he was so absent that he was afk a whole night and was unable to submit a night kill. Granted it was speed mafia with 24 hour nights but he knew that.

Anyways, if you thought it was endgame and he was focusing his efforts, then you should have laid off him during that week that I said he would be gone in another game, correct?

[Junpei]

Whatever, I'm just saying Rainbowdash that it makes you look immature when you can't get out of your pony craze-persona when posting in this game. That will hurt your credibility regardless of if it should with some people. Not to mention that it is not courteous to continue after we've asked you not to.

I'm not talking about MLP ANY MORE during this thread unless by gods evil hand it becomes relevant. Also I won't underestimate you or have fun with it, I'll just have a personal vendetta against you which you shouldn't care about anyway.

[Junpei]

Just woke up, but Nero I obviously (as proven by his flip) can't say he is confirmed. It just is my way of saying I strongly strongly believe that he is third party or mafia. You took what I said out of context, as during that time Zinger was yelling at me saying "how do you think I'm _confirmed_?"

[Junpei]

Nero you're doing that thing where you ignore the bit at the end that proves that it is out of context, did you not see what I wrote? Go rereading the convo I was having with Zinger at the time.

How do I feel about a Silver lynch? Well my notes are messy, but I believe silver used Hydra dissonance and tunneled on Pine until after I said that he was afk all day during Setal's speed mafia. but that had been over quite some time before I posted that, and it suggests that Silver was using Pine's afk replace out as a scumtell and a pillar for the lynch without actually checking up on if he was doing anything of the sort in other games and to what nature it was.

So I think that Silver is most likely scum. However I don't like how quickly people jump to it, I assume that everyone's logic is the same as mine, but what about Andrew and ZeL1nK? Both have done some suspicious things and no one seems to be considering it much. Town, you can't have tunnel vision you must observe all possibilities and decide which makes the most sense. Once again, I think silver is scum but I want to explore other options so I won't be voting.

[Junpei]

hello everyone!

Reads... opinions on the zinger lynch... opinions on a silver lynch... those are good things to start asking, so whenever you're ready fire out the responses.

[Junpei]

Junpei. Tracker report now.

I don't know if it is something I should out or not, it could be -EV town. Please respond telling me if you want me to out it no matter what. I don't know that it is -EV town for sure but it seems like it might.

[Junpei]

Well, 3 people is enough for me.

I tracked Vezok and he visited no one.

Also Pappums if you'll be so kind as to look, I said that I do find Silver scummy. However look at people who are voting silver blindly, I understand that most everything has been said (i noted that in that post) but you need to take time to look at everyone else as well. It was my preemptive reasoning for why I wasn't placing a vote down. I don't like voting quickly even if it is a meaningless vote and we are 12 away from hammer, if an official vote means so much to you I will but I honestly see no reason for it.

[Junpei]

Why did you track Vezok?

First let me say that going into the night I thought that Zel1nK was scum, however tracking him would be pointless because if he was scum he'd just be the one to lead the NK and he'd blame it on his vigil kill.

So then I looked at other options. I eliminated the two new people because I didn't know much about them. There was nothing to go on really.

Then I thought "who would scum think I'd track?". Well, I expressed distaste at one point or another of Meran, Andrew, ZeL1nK, and a few others less so throughout the day(not including Zinger). So I wanted to steer clear of scum correctly guessing my target and somehow screwing with me whether it be from intentionally not using their action to redirecting it.

But even then I couldn't narrow it down enough, there were just too many possible choices for me to logically sift through everyone. In the end I looked through Vezok's ISO and didn't like it at all. He posted little actual content and BWed on major BWs.

So, I decided to track Vezok.

[Junpei]

@Jun- That is a really crappy answer. I don't like it.

Let's see what Vezok says.

And didn't someone else claim something? They need to give their results too.

Awaiting MoI's neighbor dilemma.

"crappy".
"don't like".

If you are going to discredit me you better have reasons more than that.

[Junpei]

No, that's not me discrediting you. That will be up to Vezok, depending on what he says.
This is me stating my opinion.

So you are saying that your opinion as no more substance than "eh, I dont like it".

[Junpei]

Honestly PeregrineV, I have been busy these past few days. I have had to find a better schedule to exercise and work out, I have to practice, I have homework, and I have been trying to get everything ready, and that is not even mentioning all my prior engagements I've had planned.

So, as it turned out I didn't have a ton of time during those 3 days or so to reread the thread and take notes. I did take notes of my thoughts, and those are my notes. But, if you need more explanation on Vezok...

Read ISO 14-25. It is basically "I buddy with good players. Oh zinger isn't dead yet? silver not scum. your not bronie??". And that isn't even me paraphrasing, that's pretty much what it says. That in particular looked like scum coasting after Zinger was deemed for death. Especially now with the town flip.

[Junpei]

FIX

So, as it turned out I didn't have a ton of time during those 3 days or so to reread the thread and take notes.

........................................................
You have time to post 200 times but you don't have time to read?

There's a difference between posting over a three week span and having 3 days to re-evaluate everything. Let me break it down for you.

30th: I had to hang out with my girlfriend and after that go to my grandparents house to load wood and cut ivy from their trees. This was also the day I went to the store to pick up a book for my homework

31st: There's a Jappanese student whom is living with a friend of mine and is leaving in two days to return to Japan, so all of us went to the beach to hang out and show him the area. That was most of my day but I also got back and downloaded and tried out BLC (yeah I know this is recreational, but this isn't all I do). This is also the day that I did my thought. I got home at a decent time so after playing BLC I did my quick analysis and decided I'd track Vezok. I had to go to dinner later that night. I knew that the next day I'd be gone almost all day and might end up not coming home till late in the day on the 2nd.

1st(Aug): Uncle/Aunt from orgean came over to my grandparents house for the day, I left at 10AM my time and was there until 6PM (at grandparents house) before going out to eat with my uncle/aunt (it was a big deal in particular because some relatives from south america, not my relatives, uncles' relatives were there) and didn't return till 9PM. I thought that it was possible I'd end up hanging out at my friends' house with the jappanese student for the night and play super mario bros. I ended up not doing that because I didn't want to miss the start of the day, but I was tired when I got home, so I went to sleep.

I hate to spill my life out in the thread but this is why I don't have a detailed analysis on my tracking option.

I'll comment on your other post soon.