Return to Gambits (SK Win!)
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VOTE: jilynne1991
For having that username. Though if it's all the same it feels like we're out of RVS. Still, I'm terribad at D-1 and always get myself into trouble it seems. So if it's all the same to you I'mma wait awhile (think page 10) to actually consider anybody a serious suspect.Avatar by me-
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jil wrote:I'm sorry, but I just do not like participating in RVS, I'll be fencesitting until I see something that is worth mentioning or catches my eye.
jil wrote:A meta means nearly nothing, so I don't think that's a very good question. Anyways, I've never played with you, so I don't think anything of your meta.
It's like me voting for you is me voting for myself. I can't let this RVS vote stand any longer.
UNVOTE: jilAvatar by me-
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CMAR wrote:You changed an RVS vote based on someone having similar play to yours. Therefore you see that the other person could be town as you know that you're town (hypothetically). That is definitely protown.
So that's you're logic? I was expecting that it would have more to do with RVS. I don't know why.
jil wrote:What do you mean by easy going nature? Cobbler, why would you tell someone they might be wrong if they say you're pro-town. I don't quite understand that.
Easy going? Well I haven't done a head count, but not an awful lot of people have been really posting yet.
I didn't understand why he thought that post in particular was pro-town. (I think if anything it's townish not pro-town. But eh, semantics.) Him saying, "You are town," without really explaining why piqued my interest. (and I'll admit, pipped my scumdar a bit.)Avatar by me-
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jil about vezok wrote:That's exactly what I'm thinking. He makes me laugh because of his stupidity and oblivioun, but it makes me frustrated too!
jil to vezok wrote:Please explain why you bother posting then? What you're doing is generally called active lurking.
Um? Doesn't this second post strike anyone a bit odd when it seems jil is familiar with vezok?Avatar by me-
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What is you're opinion now of the mass claim option, ironhead?
Mine is, if we want to mass claim ever, today is the only day that it'll be feasible. But after thinking about it, a middle-of-the-road approach might be better.
The only two options seem to be, "mass claim today" or "take all claims later on with a huge grain of salt".Avatar by me-
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Ironhead wrote:jilynne, C-Worl, Cobblerfone: Why are you not voting right now? Isn't there enough content for you to make an informed decision on who is most likely to be scum right now?
I'm still waiting for the people that are catching up. I'd say what I think CMAR is or how I plan to figure outexactlywhat he is, but I don't want to give the mafia any ideas. I however do NOT think he is a goon or serial killer. And thus, a bad lynch for today. I'm looking forward more to see how Surye and Mask's conversation goes.
MC is a no I take it then. Though I have actually realized something: We CAN still trust claims for today.Avatar by me-
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Actually here's a question:
Surye wrote:Anyone who is pushing an MC to me is likely trying to setup a gambit with nks. Town won't benefit, as it will be harder to confirm claims, causing more confusion than normal. Scum however WILL have more information.
What do you mean? IF there were a mass-claim no scum-gambits would be allowed. They'd have a list of power-roles though. So how is this a proper reason against MC?
Also, I assumed I'd be able to analyze the number of kills to find out what CMAR was, but I realize now there are too many variables. I'll just say I think he's either the traitor or a certain PR. He's dropped too many gambit-hints.
VOTE: SuryeAvatar by me-
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Surye wrote:is unchallenged counter claiming with no night kills revealed.
Wait what? How would that happen unless nobody waited? I'd think if we ever did MC that'd we wait for everyone to answer. That's why I set it up as a vote. If you mean a MC after today, well that's impossible. Heck, after today waiting for counter-claims won't work either.Avatar by me-
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Mod confirmed that lynches flip. NKs flip to their respective killers. (Except hider, I think.)
I think I understand where you're coming from now, though.
UNVOTE: Surye
@wredfar: what don't you like besides his RVS reactions and why?
My list so far:
Town
jil (outburst was bad, but no way is it coming from scum.)
ironhead (I've really liked his posts)
Leaning Town
Nocmen (mafia don't use "feelings" for their "scum"-leads, I think.)
Mask (He came up with the self-investigating idea.)
monk (I feel a kindred spirit with the way he posts.)
Null
CMAR (I've explained this.)
C-Worl (C-Worl is just plain null)
DEITY YOU NINJAAvatar by me-
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Surye wrote:Why does this matter? I know the mod confirms lynches. I never said they didn't. My concern was night kills. Why does this differentiation mean a vote/non-vote for me? Looks like you're trying hard to justify a vote on me..
Then how does THIS make sense:
Surye wrote:Sorry, I may not be coming across clearly. Say 2 people claim vig, 3 people claim cop. You'd be in a situation that you wouldn't know the flip of the dead person, and there's no confirmation of the roles of the dead.
SIMPLE lynch cops, tell vigs to shoot each other. You'd still have two other guys to find, but I don't see how having no night-flips affects this scenario.Avatar by me-
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Surye wrote:No, I don't need to, I think it's a bad idea. Why are you pushing me so hard? On what? That I didn't want an MC? And now that YOU'VE decided we're not MC, what does it matter? You have not addressed any of my reads of comments on the game other than that I did not want MC.
What matters is that you gave a very odd reason to not MC. If you don't want to reveal your reasoning because the scum could do it without a MC, we'll just lynch the first person to claim who isn't at L-1.
You're tunneling so hard I think you're lost
The reason it sounds like I'm tunneling is becauseyoukeep wanting to avoid this explanation. AndIkeep asking you for an explanation. Nocmen however isn't paying attention. He's no longer leaning town.Avatar by me-
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Surye wrote: Town not answering questions is always work suspicion, and that's why I am trying to show why I am doing it in this case.
Thanks for humoring me here. That is one of the reasons I continued to suspect you. (The other and more original reason was that as scum you would be more likely to think about these more as opposed to the more obvious "It'll reveal PRs." Plus bringing it up without elaborating was kind of pointless.)
UNVOTE: Surye
Well. Guess it's on to Nocmen and wredfar. wredfar, I still want the other reasons for voting C-Worl. Nocmen, I actually can't think of any questions for you at the moment. (At least none that Surye wouldn't be more suited to.) I'll reread you both tomorrow or soon.Avatar by me-
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Town
jil (outburst was bad, but no way is it coming from scum.)
Ironhead (I've really liked his posts)
Leaning Town
Mask (He came up with the self-investigating idea.)
Surye (For now)
Town vibe
monk (I feel a kindred spirit with the way he posts.)
DeityKabuto
Sathoris
vezokpiraka
Interests of pursuit
Earworm
wredfar
Surye (Yes he's in two catergories.)
Null
CMAR (I've explained this.)
C-Worl (C-Worl is just plain null)
Nocmen (Went from leaning town to interest to unable to question. Will evaluate further.)
Everyone not mentioned hasn't really stuck out to me or doesn't have many posts.
I don't have a scum catergory. I'm an ex-vibe-style-hunter but that didn't go well. Plus, I'm mostly inconfident in my scumreads so if I did go after anyone on the first day it'd be halfheartedly. I have to wait for voting/lynch data before I'm truly confident in anything after my experience in my newbie-game. So unless something interesting comes up, it'll be hard for me to think anyone is really scum today.Avatar by me-
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Vezok wrote:Interesting. Do you fell like you're playing the same as in the last empking game where you were scum?
My play this game feels like a new step in a continuing evolution from all four of my previous games.
Out of my two completed games this one feels closer to Cthulhu Speed Mafia because almost no one has me as a suspect. As opposed to when I was a vanilla townie in my newbie game and got to L-1 on D-1. It definitely has a significantly different feel from both though. But that might be because it's open.
What are your thoughts on C-Worl's, yours, and my play compared to CSM? What are your thoughts on the play of any others you have played with?Avatar by me-
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earworm wrote:The chances are with four scum and sixteen players that one scum was on the four person CMAR wagon. That's all.
...That's not how statistics work, though.
Nocmen wrote:leaning both town and scum?
It's "interest of pursuit". I have him as leaning town for now. But I'm watching him in particular to either solidfy the read or change it.
Nocmen wrote:You seem too afraid and cautious to go be wrong on someone you call scum, when it's day 1, and cases on people have to start somewhere. I will have to read this previous game that vezok mentioned though, and compare to your actions so far, as much as I hate basing cases on meta.
Please read the newbie game as well. I think it'll explain my "afraid to outright call people scum relentlessly on D-1" mindset I have now. Plus I'm not exactly sure how that might work as evidence since there's two scum-factions that are also hunting each other. At least, I think they would.Avatar by me-
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Nocmen wrote:Also, While I may accept meta as a reason for an attack, I don't like it as a defense, especialyl as a self defense, after you mention how you've evolved your playstyle in games. You were much more reckless in your newbie game, but why should that stop you if you are town? The cautionness you demonstrate here really pins you as scum to me.
I agree with recklessness as being more townish. But my recklessness has made several people think I'm scum on D-1 (though I haven't lynched in my five games). AND it makes me inconfident in my own reads when I have to back out of them like in my newbie game. So, I've changed to being a poker, if you will. I'm questioning things that catch my eye and waiting for the responses with the hope of starting conversations. I've lost faith in most scumtells and perhaps even scumtells as a concept, so I'm changing it up a bit. I'm planning on this mostly being a D-1 strategy.
You were right when you said that scumhunting had to start somewhere. And for me, it's starting with these questions and conversations. By the way this has been quite productive for me. I'm back on you being town.
I concur with Sathoris that earworm's "statistic" isn't vote-worthy. Particularly because he's new. But he's still on my watchlist.
Sathoris wrote:I have one question to Cobbler: Do you still think an MC would be a good strategy today?
No. I might think about it a bit more though. At the very least to try to see what Surye sees.
earworm:
1. Out of all of the scum only the traitor would post something like that to communicate to their buddies who they thought was a good target. But CMAR was the leading wagon at the time so... I could've just jumped on with my actual half-belief that he's the traitor as an excuse. (A bit WIFOMy, sure. still sub-optimal play otherwise.)
2. I was voting on a lead with the purpose of continuing the conversation.
3. Well with three hypothetical cop-claims what wouldyoudo?Avatar by me-
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monk wrote:I know this was posed to earworm but I think this question is interesting, what are your reasons for wanting to find the traitor above any other mafia, or is this in addition to the other mafia?
Where did I indicate wanting to find the traitor above the other scum? To me, finding the traitor is secondary, especially on day one.
My numbered points are counters to his three reasons for voting me. I was refering to how he found my post supsicious by "outing CMAR" when of all the scum only the traitor would try to do anything like that as they don't have a NK to deal with PR suspects. But at the same time, there's no reason for the traitor to do that if their suspected PR was already the lead wagon. Now, this is just me trying to extrapolate earworm's argument and I don't even know if "outing CMAR" was his reason since he didn't exactly say it in so many words. But I digress.Avatar by me-
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Sathoris wrote:Your discussion with Surye evolved into a point where you didn't discuss the cons or pros of MC but about 'scumhunting' to a point.
My discussion with Surye was about why he brought up his reason against MC instead of a more standard reason.
earworm wrote:the only way we get 3 cops claiming at the same time is if the sk claims, which is highly unlikely.
That was the whole point of Surye's hypothetical scenario. 3 cops, 2 vigs. You can't go around and turn it into something else. Speaking of which, how do you know only the Serial Killer would claim?
VOTE: earwormAvatar by me-
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earworm wrote:1. Your post smells of rolefish. That's why I didn't like it
Rolefish? CMAR was the leading wagon. I was eplaining why I didn't think he should be lynched today.
2. It's mainly your reasoning. It's poorly thought out. All the info was there before you asked any questions if I remember.
I'm not even sure what this means. My vote was a punctuation. "if you remember"? Why not look at it.
Sathoris wrote:Which changed your view on him. You changed votes on him more than once. You didn't advocate for an MC anymore, you simply reacted on his posts. How is that not figuring out someone'sa llignement.
I'm not really sure I'm following you here. How is that scummy? Or was that an unrelated point that you just put in your post?Avatar by me-
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Sathoris wrote:You gave no reason why you're not in favor of an MC anymore. Why is that?
If you check my post right after I "voted" for a MC you'll see I started to realize a MC might not be as hot I thought. Basically, now it's because any advantages of a MC (Preventing scum from claiming PRs on later days) can be gotten through other methods. (such as not trusting any PR claim.)Avatar by me-
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Nocmen wrote:What I want to know, is when Cobber started suspecting earworm. He ignores him at first, then puts him in an interest list.
I first thought something was fishy with earworm when he said that it was likely that CMAR already had a scum vote. (I pulled a similiar stunt in Cthulhu Speed Mafia.)
Nocmen wrote:Am I the only one that sees the contradiction in earworm?
No.Avatar by me-
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earworm wrote:IF WE GET A COP CLAIM TODAY NOBODY SHOULD CC. We wait for tomorrow and ask the claimed cop his sanity. THEN ask for CCs. That narrows down their role and anyone who wants to cc must claim that specific role. (because all cops will self investigate tonight)
Ah. You see, that's why you need to be more clear:
earworm's scenario: fixed wrote:ifwe get a cop claim today NOone shouldCC. We lynch someone else and wait for tommorrow. ALLOF THECOPSSHOULDSELF INVESTIGATE. We ask theclaimed cophis sanity.We thenask if anybody wants to cc his sanity. If yes we keep our eyes on the two of them and continue to ask them for results. If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.
You still changed the hypothetical scenario but you get points for thinking outside the box I guess. The SK remark is weird but not incriminating by itself. It was that combined with the change of scenario. It seemed made up to make yourself look more town. But since you actually came up with a better plan to prevent that scenario, I think that's enough to warrant an unvote.
Though I have to ask: How does that last sentence work?
If the scum kills the cop, scum dies next day.
UNVOTE:Avatar by me-
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C-Worl wrote: i love you too Pineykins.
This reminds me of the last game we were in together with you as scum.
But this:
C-Worl wrote:
I have played against Pine when he was scum, been on the same scum team with him, been town in the same game as him, am hydra'd with him in another game. So, if anyone would know about my meta, my way of thinking, or my tells, it would be him.
Seems like a townish explanation. Can you tell though, what tone you were trying to express with this post:
C-Worl wrote:
Pine's in this game? Oh boy...
Because depending on how you read them, it seems to clash with the above. Without sarcasm, how do you feel about Pine being in the game?Avatar by me-
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@C-Worl: Interesting response.
I actually don't find anything that scummy about it, (a bit theatrical I guess. Or maybe that's just my own imagination.) If you want to continue on this trail Nocmen, fine by me. As for myself, I'll try to find yet another player to question in my next post.Avatar by me-
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Nocmen wrote:I do agree though with the Cobbler mention, he has made a lot of repeating, with little scum hunting, but his post frequency has definitely decreased in the past couple days.
There's a reason for this. Either I'm waiting for people to answer questions or I can't think of any questions to ask. Still, maybe I do need to change it up now that we're closing in on the 13th page mark. I'm just not sure how to do that without accidentally tunneling.
I do disagree with Sathoris, but I don't think he's earned my vote yet.
Still waiting on my four questionees.Avatar by me-
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@Kabuto: how would you describe your posting style?
Though it seems to have already been pointed out that it's very brief. (And your posts here have some wagon-hopping. Which is null in my book, but when combined with brevity not good at all.)
So I'll ask you this question instead: Who do you think are scum?Avatar by me-
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The Mask wrote:WHAT IS IT?
wredfar, Mask, Vezok: Who else do you think is scummy besides the people you've voted for respectively?
You answered with Sathoris. Kind of.
Vezok, do you mind answering?
Kabuto, would you also mind answering?
There are at least two types of answers I'll accept.Avatar by me-
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Nocmen wrote:Not sure which of the DK wagoners to vote yet.
I pulled this exact trick in my scum game, Nocmen. Making a quick-wagon seem scummy and limiting my primary vote pool to the three most suspicious wagoners.
As a side note: With Quilford in I have at least one person from each of my completed games.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: NocmenAvatar by me-
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Surye wrote:That's cute. But my god, First, you are angry someone doesn't believe your claim, like it's OMG obvious to anyone you're telling the truth. Then you say he's stupid or scum (for not believing your claim), then you proceed to get more emotional, then say that you'll vote him all day, because he "slipped". What was his slip, not believing your claim at face value?
You forgot the hypocrisy in his asking for content and for asking for more reads.
@Kabuto: Reread your iso and tell me how protown you sound.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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earworm wrote:Anybody have any clue why there's only two kills? There should be three.
There's any number of reasons, double kills, triple kill + hider, two kills plus the Serial Killer getting hit, double kill + hider + SK got hit, SK dies + SK's target, (thinking up these possible scenarios are fun) etc.
It's part of what makes the nightkills even trickier. Heck, for all we know the mafia or Serial Killer are dead. We could even be down to just one mafia and wouldn't know it until tomorrow. This game is going to be nuts.
The SK is also a roleblocker,
I forgot about that. Hmm... I'm going to go with null.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Fine, maybe limiting yourself to part of a bandwagon is just bad instead of scummy. And since Ironhead was a townread yesterday I'll unvote.
UNVOTE: Ironhead
And since earworm was suspicious yesterday and today.
VOTE: earworm
Ironhead wrote:Those who joined the wagon after his role-claim include C-Worl, me, and earworm, with DK being the hammer on his own wagon.
It should also be noted that many people, including Sathoris, Vezok, and me were offering to hammer. Your list omitted people that basically fit your description, and that's something that bugs me. Especially since as far as I know, the "one scum" you believe to be on the wagon MIGHT already be dead.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Surye wrote:I don't like how everyone is sheeping yesterday's case against earworm, with no comment on the lynch or nks.
What can be said about yesterday's lynch? The NKs would be pretty hard to discuss. Though, since he's dead, I'll just state that I think CMAR/SG was either the hider or traitor.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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earworm wrote:But seriously people. If you don't want to vote, give me suspicions at least. Who do you think might be scum, who do you think might be town? You people are acting like this is the beginning of the game and there's nothing to go on. We have a full day behind us. Use it.
Since your pressing so hard for it why don't you give yours first? The only living player you've commented on today is myself I do believe.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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The Mask wrote:Anyone that I don't mention a lot are people I have no issue with. The next person in line for my vote would be jily. Not liking how she apparently misunderstood me asking why she never voted as a request to wagon onto DK.
Why aren't you voting her then?
earworm wrote:I'm done giving Vezo a free ride because he's a VI. He's been playing bad all game (nothing new here), but these two posts today are just headscratchers.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Vezo
I was going to say let the Vig take care of him. But, then I realized they could be dead. Still, I don't feel like wasting a lynch on a six.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Amrun wrote:Peregrine 514 ... HOWEVER, thinking CMAR is the traitor is idiotic and my gut tells me not understanding the traitor mechanic is probably a towntell, though it could be faked. UGH. I was so convinced PV was was scum until the end of this post. (Edit: this towntell is now invalid.)
Wait, what did he misunderstand?
Also, you forgot me.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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The Mask wrote:I had this idea in mind if I drew scum here...olololol did Mask just try to push himself as townie on us???[/lampshade]
Okay this is just odd. I'm going to look through your iso.
POST ISO CHECK:
ISO #0 wrote:I'll wait for CMAR to unvote so I don't look omgusy..... what???
This is the only other one. Were you really this flamboyant in Speed Mafia?
POST META CHECK:
You called people off for not voting suspects in Speed Mafia where you were town.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: The MaskAvatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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Amrun wrote:Looks like Mask knows Sathoris was town.
Mask wrote:(When you see it, you'll shit bricks)
Is this what you're refering to? Slip it could be, but there's two ways of interpreting it. And in context, either could make sense. Or...
The Mask wrote:The Mask wrote:if I were a cop, I would know better
(When you see it, you'll shit bricks)
Pine wrote:Check the name of the thread, Amrun.
Are you saying you're gambitting cop, a cop that's gambitting, or what?Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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earworm wrote:@Amrun, Surye + Cobblerfone: Thoughts on Pine?
Somewhat townish I guess. I can't think of any examples of why, except maybe that he hasn't done anything scummy. If he's scum, I'm thinking he's the Serial Killer. His "gambit" plus this:
Pine wrote:The SK is also a roleblocker, earworm. Could also be that the Mafia hit their traitor.
Seems more SK oriented than mafia.Avatar by me-
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Cobblerfone I don't knowMafia ScumI don't know
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