TV Mafia Game Over - Scum Win

[Rainbowdash]

Hey everypony.

Vote Zinger

This day should have ended in his lynch about 20 pages ago. Plus silver has town telled a little.

[Rainbowdash]

I know you've recently come into the game, but perhaps you could elaborate on the silver town tells?

His early reaction to the claim from Zinger. Him being on that wagon is actually the only reason he is not one of my top town reads.

If I think of anything else I'll let ya know, welcome to our game. Oh, and why do you think that the game should have ended 20 pages ago? I understand the claim, however that implies that you are a fan of ending days as soon as you feel you know mafia, without gathering further information/prolonging the day. Am I correct in this assumption?

All anti-town claims should be lynched on site. This includes claims of maifa, survivor, lyncher or anything else that does not contain the town win condition. We are going to lynch him, so continuing to bicker and everything else like we have been is going to first create massive clutter like already has happened, which leads to ponies apathying out of the game. It also allows scum to make more of an optimal kill as they know more about who is lynchable, who has what reads, and who is going to the a threat to them in subsequent days. So not saying my other reads. Zinger is the lynch today, that is all. The fact the day has not ended is disheartening.

Any post of mine until the day ends is just going to be a repitition of this post, possibly worded differently.

[Rainbowdash]

I understand wanting the day to end in a Zlinger lynch, I feel the same , however we must advocate for said lynch and be active in doing so, saying "this is what i want now u do" won't get anything done.

Actually if it works it does get more done, and is best in the long run. Since:

Scum getting reads on what will happen are fine, we can anticipate their thoughts and understand their kills.

Scum getting reads is not fine. The more in the dark we leave scum, the better we are in the long run. Letting scum take in the dark shots weakens them far more than town taking in the dark shots is weakened. Scum kills tend to have multiple levels of reasoning attached to them, so are difficult to correctly pin down reasoning of, especially in the early stages of a large game.

Zinger is the lynch. Its the correct play not only based on standard theory, but also his play for the game. The day needs to end as well, as 50 pages is at least 20 too many.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow, do you have any off-site experience?

NA1

This shouldn't matter to you.

You don't seem to understand. Within these 27 people during these town meetings are scum. They get the exact same information as us, as a result town cannot get any information from these meetings that scum can't too. So the more in the dark we leave scum the more in the dark we are.

Town roles are inherantly designed to be better shot in the dark powers though. A cop can catch scum if they spend five hours looking over posts or go to a RNG, a town RBer can catch a lucky shot in the dark, a watcher can be hovering over the right person. These results are still very powerful in the long run even when targeting at random, while most inherantly scum roles are counters for town roles. To be most productive they need to have ideas of where the town roles are, which is why people try to push lynch all vanilla claims to protect those town roles.

Remaining silent like you're suggesting is -EV town and makes the days events completely out of your hands. If you're town that is bad.

Im not remaining silent, im getting Zinger lynched, which is all that is extremely important about my suspicions.

[Rainbowdash]

But scum could also get lucky and hit strong PRs too right? Information is merely a factor in determining how lucky you'll get when it comes to selecting night kills and tracks/cops/saves. Point in case is that staying quiet doesn't help either side.

Key work "luck". Any information role for town is, for lack of a better word, informative. Negative tracks/watches still give small tells of alignment. Scum roles are all crafted with the intent of dealing damage to town roles, from the most simple RBer to the far more complex Voyeur. Scum MUST have an idea of who town powers are if they want to use their role correctly, town does not need to have great scum reads. Its that same prinicple that encourages scum to NK Derpy Ponies who drew PRs. Staying quiet does help town more than scum once a lynch is decided.

You aren't doing anything but putting up an almost meaningless vote. You aren't advocating for the lynch. If you were then we'd be discussing how scummy what Zlinger has done is and why he's mafia/third party rather than town, instead we're discussing what YOU'RE doing and now I have to think how scummy I think this is instead.

Apart from the fact that all anti-town claims should be lynched on site since they play directly against the town win condition at worst only in select scenarios - Zinger refuses to do anything this game that can be construed as scumhunting and in fact has shows signs of going to act purely based on emotional bias and vendettas towards other player instead of doing anything that is useful. This has continued to the extent where he has openly admitted to be borderline trolling instead of playing the game, which is already playing directly against the town win condition.

Now, in addition to that you have him name claiming which really can accomplish nothing according to mod flavor (thankfully since I have zero idea who a couple of these claims are from or who I am), but it can manage to create a good baseless distraction for a little bit as that all gets sorted out instead of any scumhunting being done.

Anyway, the biggest reason that he is scum, more likely than third part even, or queen Derpy Pony, is the way he has delt with a few claims throughout the game. Initally his response to the "vig" from ZeL1nK is one that seems unable to determine if its real or not, I would side with he is legitimately worried though. Nothing at this point which would be a natural breadcrumb area is there, instead we just get some more or less nothing useful. Possibly the only upside of any play early is he voted Chevre. Going back to the tell though, I can't believe for a moment that any town would be braindead enough that with a vig claiming intent to kill them, decides its time to fakeclaim third party as a town power role.

The funniest part is, the claim made TONS of sense to me matched with his early game play, although its still a lynch on site claim. Then there is his vote on the uncountered tracker. Also the zero scumhunting.

@Junipi - Does your role have flavor backing to it, yes or no?

There, more of a reason even though its been all there for 20 pages. I will even throw in charm.



So now its time to lynch who should have been lynched ages ago, as the only type of defense I really see people trying to throw out there is that he is too scummy to be scum.

Also I still see no reason to show my playing record, since it should have little if any bearing on what your read of me is. Who I replaced is probably on the front page as I don't remember which one I got.

[Rainbowdash]

Hmm... No I would say that my role flavor does not back my role of Tracker.

This makes me wonder about Zlingers' flavorclaim and how it had perfect flavor backing though when he claimed third party JK.

Of course you dont, and this is the EXACT reason we kill him today. Was almost hoping for a two birds one stone move with that one but meh.

Image this scenario, I image for anypony of moderate smarts it will be hard to get yourselves into that Derpy of a mindset but try anyways, you are a town JK who wants to fakeclaim third party vanilla-izer/JK/lyncher combo.

You look at your role and go "oh look, there is flavor about who my character is, but there is nothing about WHY my role is what it is". What would be a good idea for a fakeclaim here? Is it

A) Say you are a third party nutzo role with flavor backing your role type
B) Say you are a third party nutzo with no role flavor
C) Say you are just a third party nutzo
D) Don't fakeclaim

Now, because of the mindset thing I spoke of, we have to throw out D unfortunately. The thing is though, even Zinger would know enough not to change what his role actually is if he was town to the extent where it doesn't look like a standardized role format. What I can see is him being some wierd third party lyncher-esq role, or mafia goon. Each of those fits the bill of not knowing if roles are flavored or not past the character name, since they would presumeably have the same flavoring as vanilla town. So Zinger is scum also caught now for making up an aspect of his role, and continues to be scum for scum. Lynch him now.

Wish you would have brought this up 20 pages ago, but no time like the present to make up for it.

[Rainbowdash]

One minor point here.. let's not get buried in the assumption that all roles have completely unrelated flavour. Either by coincidence or mod planning there could a few that fit together nicely. It is a nice catch though, let's just not rely on it as infallible.

I'm nearly defending Zinger.. I feel.. dirty somehow.

While im not too familiar with Earl, or many TV shows (rant goes here about not being a MLP: FIM character which I would have been all *squee* over), his bio is based around one season (I think?) of the show. I really never watched my show enough (yes I finally looked up who I am) to know how much of it my bio covers, but it seems like a general background of the character over multiple seasons.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbowdash are you claiming Earl?

No.

Now that you've brought it up.. for the love of god please stop saying "anypony" and things along those lines.. it's moderately irritating and it's reducing the impact of your arguments somewhat, if only because mentally it seems like a five-year old delivering them...

No again, but feel free to underestimate me all you want.

@andrew - When he wasn't lynched for claiming third party and no one took the time to bust the flavor aspect out the gate, yes I am going to complain about it. It should be mid-late day two already.

[Rainbowdash]

Wait...what?

Your reason for not having silver as a "top" town read is that he is now on the Zinger wagon...the very same wagon that you just joined.

In fact, when you say this:

All anti-town claims should be lynched on site. This includes claims of maifa, survivor, lyncher or anything else that does not contain the town win condition. We are going to lynch him, so continuing to bicker and everything else like we have been is going to first create massive clutter like already has happened, which leads to ponies apathying out of the game. It also allows scum to make more of an optimal kill as they know more about who is lynchable, who has what reads, and who is going to the a threat to them in subsequent days. So not saying my other reads. Zinger is the lynch today, that is all. The fact the day has not ended is disheartening.

it baffles me how you can treat it as a scumtell at all.

Silver made a statement early in the game which I took as a significant town tell given its relationship to the Zinger wagon and his location elsewhere, I also am choosing not to point out this tell specifically since if it was accidently dropped by scum, which it would have been given the nature of posts from silver unless he is greatly underselling his smarts, there is a good chance he can drop it again as town and make it a far more solid tell, or contradict it heavily as scum and get busted.

The tell relies heavily on silver NOT being on the Zinger wagon, which is why I brought it up as actually being a tell if I had read whatever votecount that was which I thought silver was voting him. Since silver isn't voting for Zinger, it means silver is one of my top town reads, and I will defend him fully if he ever cements that tell.

Also for everypony who asked, after finishing reading this game PeregrineV is the best non-Zinger lynch by miles.

[Rainbowdash]

@ rainbow: take your blinkers off. You are failing/refusing to take in to account any circumstantial evidence regarding Zinger, also you are failing/refusing to look at the situation without bias.

A) You say that when someone claims 3rd party they should be lynched, and you have no reason to believe Zinger was gambiting, BUT his play in previous games has proven his willingness to take what seem like stupid risks

B) You say there is no reason for him to claim 3rd party as town, BUT what reason does he have to claim 3rd party if he is indeed 3rd party or scum?

I will assume you mean blinders not blinkers unless this is some new talent I have yet to discover, being multi-talented as I am, it easily could be however.

Part of saying that all third party claims should be lynched is that it stops ponies from eventually faking third party roles because they think it's clever or something along those lines. If you are claiming he is one of those ponies that need to constantly be given a pass because of his inability to do anything correctly, thats not going to fly either. I would be willing to lynch ponies like that regardless of alignment every time if it eventually teaches them to not be complete Derpy Ponies, or he leaves the site like he appears to be threatening for and I hope he does. If you want to call it a policy lynch, I would be fine with such as it is to a certain extent. His continued play of showing no intention to help later is enough to cement it as the correct move, especially when its up against silver. Maybe if it was Zinger vs Peregrine I would be willing to let this slide, but here no chance.

First if he was third party and his original claim was right, it actually WAS the correct move for him to claim like he did as there was a win option for him that would remove him from the game. The thing though is we get to where we are now, where everypony just decides to give him a pass because no scum would make this move. It is a gambit but are you honestly saying you have never seen scum claim third party to try and escape a lynch? It happens, about at the same rate town thinks its a cute gambit to try and then gets torched for. These types of claims are WIFOM since its the quote unquote incorrect move to make for any alignment.

[Rainbowdash]

Part of saying that all third party claims should be lynched is that it stops ponies from eventually faking third party roles because they think it's clever or something along those lines. If you are claiming he is one of those ponies that need to constantly be given a pass because of his inability to do anything correctly, thats not going to fly either. I would be willing to lynch ponies like that regardless of alignment every time if it eventually teaches them to not be complete Derpy Ponies, or he leaves the site like he appears to be threatening for and I hope he does. If you want to call it a policy lynch, I would be fine with such as it is to a certain extent. His continued play of showing no intention to help later is enough to cement it as the correct move, especially when its up against silver. Maybe if it was Zinger vs Peregrine I would be willing to let this slide, but here no chance.

This entire paragraph = "it doesn't even matter if he's town, I'd still lynch him". Fair enough, you can choose to be like that but I choose to believe that is

sub-optimal play

. And I am judging you based on that.

You have full permission to judge me based on that, but im not about to start allowing anything like this to become a standard of play given how much more difficult it will become to read someone as any botched play as scum can be met with the call that a gambit occured. In this situation though it was messed up in such a way that I really can't believe that its a town claim. I can see town be willing to oversell or undersell something, pretty sure that everyone has done that play at some point in their careers. What I have the hard time with is the unprompted third party claim, followed by changing it to a new claim, and then a new claim again. Town mindset when getting called in a gambit is along the lines of "Now I need to explain why I made this move logically" and not "Whats the fastest way to get out of being lynched".

First if he was third party and his original claim was right, it actually WAS the correct move for him to claim like he did as there was a win option for him that would remove him from the game. The thing though is we get to where we are now, where everypony just decides to give him a pass because no scum would make this move. It is a gambit but are you honestly saying you have never seen scum claim third party to try and escape a lynch? It happens, about at the same rate town thinks its a cute gambit to try and then gets torched for. These types of claims are WIFOM since its the quote unquote incorrect move to make for any alignment.

I honestly can say I have never seen it (or if I have I can't remember it). Why, if he was scum, would he not have just said "town jk" instead of "3rd party jk". There is literally no reason that I can see. If a scum claims 3rd party they have ensured there is 0% chance for them to survive throughout the game. Him actually being 3rd party is just as unlikely as that claim was mooted when it was pointed out it was unfairly difficult for him to reach his alleged win condition.
It is actually not

necessarily

the incorrect move to make for town, however. In this case if he had survived the lynch (possible but unlikely) mafia would not have wasted a kill on him, knowing that we would eventually lynch the claimed 3rd party. It was still

stupid

, don't get me wrong, but it has the best (only) motive of any alignment.

I

have

seen scum win a game on a third party claim because town bought it, seen them come very close a couple times as well. Claiming third party is a gambit for every alignment, town can possibly get out of being in the lynch pool, scum can too. If it gets bought, its a ticket to mid-late game where they have to do nothing really to stay around. In some sense, its almost the same as the fake miller, or fake PGO, or fake anything like that claim. If bought by the town and made by scum, they just got a one way ticket deep into the game. It has its inherant risks of drawing a policy lynch, but has a high reward and most people are willing to go off judgement of the slot.

[Rainbowdash]

Meh, we should have lynched 17 pages ago.

The silver wagon seems to be MOI, and a bunch of low-volume or low-content voters afraid of what an aggressive policy of stamping out antitown and scum-favoring behaviour might mean for them.

Lets finish this.

[Rainbowdash]

Hey Rainbowdash can you tell me who you're an alt of so I can proxy my hatred of you to them too? The last thing this game needs is fucking pony pictures.

Have you watched my show? Its actually one of the better shows aimed at kids in a very long time, plus the whole culture surrounding the fans of the production is interesting by itself. Far smarter than most people take it for at face value given that it must be only for little girls. Quite a unique cross section of what internet culture can become.

Also every game needs more pony pictures.

[Rainbowdash]

I agree with vollkan. There are much better things to be railing on Peregrine for than that statement.

[Rainbowdash]

1) Since it's Twilight and not daytime I don't mind saying that I've watched a fair amount of MLP and it is the cancer of the internet. /b/ looks PG in comparison to that shit. I also find it extremely humorous that you come on an ALT and spout all this "ponies are us" stuff. It just shows how insecure you are about the whole thing to the point where you need to express this discomfort on an alt...

If everypony wants me to go into overkill mode, I can do that. Not even really roleplaying that much here. It seems like I should assume that there is no reason to try and say im not an alt and just a new player with quite a bit of F2F experience since no one will believe me on that one anyway, but, yeah.

Still I am going to continue to post like this. While I don't support the massive overkill that some players post ponies and such, as I have only posted under five pictures or so, it should not be a distraction. My point on the social, internet aspect is that I find it particularly interesting that the staff of MLP has positively responded to the fandom not only acknowleding its presence but playing off it. That is something you don't see everyday.

Underestimate me for it if you wish. Or just have fun with it.

[Rainbowdash]

Whatever, I'm just saying Rainbowdash that it makes you look immature when you can't get out of your pony craze-persona when posting in this game. That will hurt your credibility regardless of if it should with some people. Not to mention that it is not courteous to continue after we've asked you not to.

Well as you can probably tell already, when I need to get a point across I scale back in the picture department. Pony speak says though.

I'm not talking about MLP ANY MORE during this thread unless by gods evil hand it becomes relevant. Also I won't underestimate you or have fun with it, I'll just have a personal vendetta against you which you shouldn't care about anyway.

Well you should try to have fun with it, when I get positive feedback I actually tend to put more effort into the game just because im having more fun too.

[Rainbowdash]

10/10 A+ lynch, would do it again in a second.

Ok, so no comment on ANYTHING else going on in the game?

Actually, you're doing a slamdunk job ATM. Vifam might be scum, but the response sounds like it would be from town also. But, that's probably because I'm soft-hearted.

Jily got Snarky, which is the first time in 5 games or so. So either she's growing some

cojones

through experience, or she's more confident because she has "team" to back her up.

Bad vibes from DavidX, because while it's OK to follow up a joke vote with a joke question, you throw in real questions to. Not continue the joke past that unless it's netted you some other information.

Right out the gate Peregrine proves he isn't going to take a strong stance on anything. Vifam could be scum or town, Jilynne might be scum or town, DX is joking too much. Nothing he has to remotely commit to in this post, and is trying to buddy up/sheep the vocal players.

My vote is on chkballin for fake promising reads, but not liking the posts of DavidX. I think MoI is town, but probably because I like the posting style.

Leaning town on Killer, want Marco to throw out some reads while waiting.

Well at this point he sorta has a scum read on chk, not sure why its beating out DX since I view it as more of a suspicion due to lack of contributing, given how he basically says how it gets remedied right here and the vote got moved due to said remedy in his next post (note chkballin inst a bad scum shot on his own). Continues his exceedinly vauge suspicions of DX for reasons unknown, and starts calling popular town beliefs town here, although with plenty of wiggle room to spare, especially on MoI. The specific calling out of Marco here sounds off too, why him specifically since im pretty sure others were lurking at this point in the game.

Peregrine takes one of the more unique stances to the claim from Zinger by actually ignoring it, after inital suggestion that affirming the neutral claim would be enough for him to vote. More inability to take stands though occur as the Zinger claim switching unfolds with mixed feelings such as

In general, I see the arguements against Izak, but am going to trust Meran in this that this is how he plays (for now).

Agree with Pine=bad, but think he'd care more if he were scum. So I'd rather wait for replacement.

Can't believe that all 4 lurkers are town, but everyone seems to have their reads out pretty early. maybe I'll just go cross-index them.

Here is a big one to me though, which needs some heavy explaining since it looks like scum getting town to do their dirty work in lynching Zinger.

Silver will either be investigated or killed at this point, so it's probably a wasted lynch. Aside from the Pine fascination, looks to be town.

Zinger I think is town-3rd party-mafia in that likelihood order.

Alright, so he thinks silver is probably town, and has Zinger as town too. One thing doesn't make as much sense to me though, and it just might be a me reaction, but I would rather lynch someone I lean town over someone I have a town read on who claimed JK. Instead he just wanders off pushing on 3IF (the first time all game he has mentioned him).

Peregrine has never taken a very strong stance this game, and avoided the entire debate yesterday, despite apparent belief that both of the top wagons were on town. I cannot see town aligned pony making that move.

Vote Peregrine

Other good lynches: chkballin, Izak and maybe oversoul and chevre

[Rainbowdash]

10/10 A+ lynch, would do it again in a second.

Of course you would, scum love mislynching Town Power Roles Day 1.

I am quite a bit of a pureist in this game. If somepony always screws around when you are playing in groups, you either stop playing with them, or just lynch them. Unlike life we apparently can't stop playing with someone, so we lynch them. Only way I was not letting that happen was a mason claim.

Other good lynches: chkballin, Izak and maybe oversoul and chevre

You aren’t listing Pappums or hipaddict here. Not sure why not. Oh, are they your scum partners?

hip I could see as scum, but he isn't in the "needs death" pool but the acceptable lynch one. Pappums and yourself need to stop getting into this what almost seems like game leader competition over where both of you have taken differnt opinions of rival loud player to be scum tells. Im pretty sure its town v town, and it needs to come to an end at this point.

If you are Town then scum don’t really have a reason to swing the wagon between two Townies (other than the slight motivation to get the claimed PR lynched over the claimed VT which holds risks). Are there scum there? Possibly. But the chances of concentrated scum in that segment that swung the vote from 9-8 for you to die over to Zinger is much less likely, IMO.

Where did silver claim VT? I don't think he ever did that.

[Rainbowdash]

Where did silver claim VT? I don't think he ever did that.

He might as well have. His martyr gambit on D1 was something I can only see a VT or anti-town doing. I sincerely doubt a town PR would have said, "Lynch me over Zinger!"

You and MoI both seriously.

Of course it was obvious that he essentially claimed VT early on, which is that town tell I was harping on all yesterday. The thing is silver doesn't give me the air of someone who is very attentive to their past posts, and if scum someone who very easily could have decided to claim some power on a whim, and get instant caught. Thats why him being off the Zinger wagon was a massive towntell, and if ever combined with an eventual VT claim which after the early posts today we are getting regardless of his alignment, would make him one of my top town reads. Would the trap have worked if he is scum? No clue, but I wanted it there just incase, which leaves me a little peeved that ponies have gone and wrecked it.

He still is very likely town though since you would have to be arguing that as scum he decided to go heads up against a JK claim and then take a stance that makes voting said JK essentially a death sentance. It reads as far too risky of a scum play to me.

Also yes, I read pappums as town. Asking "really?" doesn't change it.

Peregrine has never taken a very strong stance this game, and avoided the entire debate yesterday, despite apparent belief that both of the top wagons were on town. I cannot see town aligned pony making that move.

So, you can't see why a town-aligned pony would not vote either of the top 2 vote-getters when that pony believed them both to be town?

Not when you take all factors into account. First it was a JK claim from the leading wagon, which you seemed to think was more likely town of the few, and you didn't take the counterwagon. Second is that you did NOTHING to stop either of the wagons, but just sat back and put your vote on somepony one else taking the whole Fluttershy stance to the disagreement. You know what town normally does when they see two town reads fighting? The STOP THE FIGHT by trying to prove why both people are town to everypony else, or at least prove why their pick is more likely scum. You did neither, but just sat back the entire time.

Were you like MoI and KJ in thinking that the posts from silver were VT softclaims?

[Rainbowdash]

Of course it was obvious that he essentially claimed VT early on, which is that town tell I was harping on all yesterday.

The thing is silver doesn't give me the air of someone who is very attentive to their past posts, and if scum someone who very easily could have decided to claim some power on a whim, and get instant caught.

Thats why him being off the Zinger wagon was a massive towntell, and if ever combined with an eventual VT claim which after the early posts today we are getting regardless of his alignment, would make him one of my top town reads. Would the trap have worked if he is scum?

No clue, but I wanted it there just incase, which leaves me a little peeved that ponies have gone and wrecked it.

The bolded I find not very believable. I’m sorry but setting it up as some grand 'Tarp' on the off chance he was dumb enough to ‘forget’ he claimed Vanilla to catch him later when you could have lynched him over a claimed Power Role is just pointless.

Its silver. His play comes off as overly impulsive and disjointed, in a situation where he gets wagoned to a claim, its the exact type of person who I could see doing something stupid as scum.

You know what town normally does when they see two town reads fighting?

The STOP THE FIGHT by trying to prove why both people are town to everypony else, or at least prove why their pick is more likely scum.

You did neither, but just sat back the entire time.

I’ve bolded the part that I find laughably scummy.

1. I’d love to see examples Day 1 of ‘proving Towniness’ that actually have any credibility.
2. You are knocking someone who didn’t push a wagon on Town Power Role while you yourself did? Fantastic work their Chief.

[/quote]

So you have never had a town read day one that you were willing to defend? Hard to believe there since being able to read town is just as important as being able to read scum. Yes I think someone is scum who wasn't on the Zinger lynch yesterday, is this your way of saying that everypony who is scum was on Zinger wagon?

I will no questions asked vote andrew over silver here.

[Rainbowdash]

First things first, there is zero reason for ZeL1nK to say what he did last night. That is something to get past, unlike a informational role claim, there is very little reason, especially this early in the game for him to claim something like that without someone bringing up counterinfo. Other reason for a claim isn't worth the trade it would create.

Silver still is town. That play day one, not scum play. That claim is not scum claim. That slot is town, for sure. MoI is also town, as are pappum, junepi, Thad and KJ. PaB, vezok and Pine replacement are all probably town as well. ZeL1nK is honorary maybe member, if we get even one scum flip from one of a small group he is town.

Peregrine is still scum for what I brought up early. If you notice he responded to one of my points, and from there just has been ignoring what I said as other topics take center stage instead of him. I trust MoI enough to say andrew is a good lynch, although anyone who stops the silver lynch is essentially a good lynch as far as im concerned here. Would vote anypony apart from my five other town reads over him, other three depend on my mood but I think silver is town enough to nearly blind counterwagon there.

Death list is upgraded to: Peregrine, andrew, chkballin, Izak, DX and oversoul. In that order.

I would like quite a few ponies to give their opinions of Peregrine and chkballin. Preferably all the people on that final list.

[Rainbowdash]

ALIGNMENTS ARE RANDOMIZED YOU FUCKS. That means that there can damn well be two Town Neighborizers. Hell, there could be two mafia neighborizers.

unvote, Vote: izak

More likely scum than Silver imo.

Alignment randomized probably means all roles are crafted for an alignment then handed out, as in "Slot A and B are town nieghborizers, they go to *dice* Character A and Character B". Otherwise the game can unbalance way too easily.

[Rainbowdash]

Ugh

Mod came up with a list of 27 people and a 27 player game that was balanced.
Then the mod distributed the roles randomly.
Then the mod distributed character name randomly.

@chk - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and Banshee?
@Banshee - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and chck?
@Oversoul - Thoughts on Peregrine, Banshee and chck?
@Peregrine - You can guess who I want thoughts on. Also respond to the rest of my inital case if you can.

[Rainbowdash]

Im going to venture out here and say yes.

The claims from MoI make him really likely town.

[Rainbowdash]

@chck - What is your current opinion on DX?

[Rainbowdash]

Oversoul is in this game? SRSLY? No read. Scummy by way of lurking, I guess.

No, he is scum for things like the following

Early he starts taking middle of the road stances on some of the people taking flack.

About Vifam, I can't really say much as I haven't really looked into his posts, but I did see some sheeping.

For what is soon to become the top wagon, this is a great way to justify joining the wagon due to inital groundwork he takes the time to lay out here. Same time there are easy escapes as he hasn't read enough.

He eventually throws out a big post with reads, most of these can be boiled down to null however. The big case at the end of all this though makes up for it!

His actions seem opportunistic and I get scummy vibes from his posts

Yes that is the case on silver. He takes no stances in his entire post, which is accented by voting a "null-scum" read.

This bug me a whole lot though

Leon, I said "sort of agree on" and "seems". None of those imply a concrete agreement/read on you. Why are you trying to make it sound so?

A very ugly reaction to pressure on his reads. Oversoul almost seems scared to actually call leon scum, and hard backpedals in order to reaffirm that he really has no read on him instead of try and work out what "seems" interesting. He just transfers all suspicion regarding Oversoul to a Junepi case on him though. Seriously. Without even pointing out what parts in particular he "sort of agrees on"

Oversoul has done no scumhunting this entire game, and actually backs down from any sort of it when someone challenges him to. This is not 'scum for lurking', although it does happen to be scum lurking, but its noncommital scum to the extreme.

Peregrine and Oversoul. Theres two.

[Rainbowdash]

@chk - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and Banshee?

None of those three would be my choice lynch for the day.

Lets go beyond "not my top lynch choice" here.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote
Vote oversoul

He continues to post everywhere but here.

DX continues to fight his way quickly up the needing death list.

I really am not overly comfortable with the andrew wagon given the makeup of it, but I will vote him in a second to stop a silver lynch. Would rather lynch a whole lot of others.

People should stop asking for reasons from DMSIK on why he reads me town. Especially if you haven't given a reason to think otherwise. Seriously.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbow softclaiming PR with inno on you is so stupid. The other thing he is claiming is masongroup with you and that is obvious to everyone who is reading it. Or perhaps he just meant you were really town to him via scumhunting. Not every read is from a report/mechanic.

If he doesn't want to go into it, and there is no need for him to go into it, people aren't going to force him to go into it. That means drop it.

What is your current thoughts on oversoul?

[Rainbowdash]

@chk - Thoughts on Peregrine, oversoul and Banshee?

None of those three would be my choice lynch for the day.

Lets go beyond "not my top lynch choice" here.

I see no reason to. I am not going substantiate a lynch for people I don't see as threats for the day. What was the ultimate goal of that question?

They are my scum picks. I want you to wiegh in on them. Are they town reads, null reads, your thoughts on what I said about Peregrine/Oversoul already. All those things.

@DX/KJ/silver - Can you guys weigh in on the Peregrine/Oversoul things I have posted as well?

I still really dislike this silver wagon, that one feels really scum driven and dismisses a few decent town tells as simply WIFOM.

[Rainbowdash]

RD > In a nutshell, I find your peregrine logic pretty solid. Will go over it again in a more sound state of mind and get back to you. Oversoul however I have noted down as being quite dodgy, posts are lacking in content and sparse, he's either flaked or lurking heavily. Wouldn't be happy with a lynch, but he bears investigation if we have someone.

He is not site flaking. Even a pony with the most basic search skills can tell that. Lurking isn't the main part of my case on him though, which you are failing to comment on. Thoughts about the noncommital stuff?

Minor thing I noticed though:

"Death list is upgraded to: Peregrine, andrew, chkballin, Izak, DX and oversoul. In that order."

From you. Why the dislike of an andrew lynch if he was your 2nd top suspect, and what changed that?

I stopped and thought. The entire case on him is that he might be scum due to the nieghborizing thing. I do trust MoI about night actions and stuff, but at the same time, its PURELY on the chance that MoI has his read correct and that the neighborizers are not both town. Still dislike the wagon on him though.

Also, not quite sure why you're apparently marking me as "fighting up the death list". Willing to expand on reasoning?

Gut read becoming increasingly validated.

@KJ - Thats the one

[Rainbowdash]

Being non-commital I find is another symptom of flaking/lurking. And I don't mean site-flaking, if I meant site-flaking I'd have said that, I meant flaking from this game.

Its entirely different. The flakiest person can take solid stances, the most active person can never take one.

As for the second point, it's unlikely there'd be two town neighbourisers, and I simply can't understand why you'd invite someone you have a scum read on. I still would like to know who that was so we can compare it to his views stated in the thread though, otherwise we are relying pretty much solely on MoI. :/

Would not be my move to invite scum reads, but I can see the justification behind it actually. You are wording that like relying on solely MoI is a bad thing, but you are already just sheeping on that comment entirely.

And you do realise that's not tangible reasoning? I'm asking what in particular you're taking issue with, that we might discuss it and share stances. None of us benefit from shutting ourselves up in boxes and staring fixedly out the airholes at people.

Its mostly gut, as I already said. When I figure it out more you will be the first to know I can assure you that.

[Rainbowdash]

@rainbowdash:

As I understand it, I'm one of your top three scum suspicions but I don't appear on your "needs to die" list. Why not?

Can't justify it yet, gut continues to really bug me though. What is your opinion of non-lurking points I raised on oversoul though, more than one person has responded with a "oh yeah he is lurking" and ignored some other points on him.

Wagon there would be a really good way to welcome him back from V/LA

[Rainbowdash]

Like I said, I would be ok enough with an andrew lynch to vote him. Especially over silver who I still am pretty sure is town. What I at least want is ponies to start paying attention to those who I am more sure are scum though, like oversoul and Peregrine. Lot of ponies just keep shrugging off these two cases as they get overshadowed by incessant bickering between people like Rodin and Junipei that is more likely than not town on town.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbow:

Since your last post indicates you think Rodion is most likely town, can you explain the difference between Oversoul's terribad PBPA that was horribly noncommittal and Rodion's terribad PBPA that was horribly noncommittal, and why you're treating them in opposite ways when they're strikingly similar?

Rodion is a slight town read at this point yes. I do agree with you that the breakdown of players (not sure its a PBPA) was ugly from Rodion as well, but I think that it is a good summary of oversouls play as opposed to a good summary of Rodions play. Other posts from him have shown some, noteably not stellar but some, attempts at scumhunting. I also like his apporach to the Zinger wagon yesterday, and his early game interactions with DX. Those are all enough of town tells, that I see him as slightly town, and the current arguement really just threatening to get in the way of the game as opposed to catch scum.

If everyone is going to continue to ignore Oversoul, I will vote andrew.

@PaB - As much as I would love to get more support on the oversoul wagon *HINT HINT* he does actually appear to be on V/LA currently, although he just was ignoring this game for the week-ish prior to such.

@junepi/rodion

- Im going to be very blunt here. If neither of you plan to actually vote for eachother today, stop arguing. Its really sending the whole game off on a tangent that doesn't make any sense for its current state. Everypony is just starting to get fed up with this debate since its going in circles and has little to no effect on anyones decision for today. Put up or shut up. The game does suffer when you do this, even if this is town on scum the game is going to hurt.

[Rainbowdash]

Ninja'd by Rainbowdash - I guess you will really like the "@everyone" part of this post.

Would have liked it more if you used the proper "everypony" formating though.

[Rainbowdash]

Peregrine - Can you explain your Izak vote more?

I need to read through Peregrine, Izak, Andrew sometime soon here and come to a more definative conclusion.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbowdash: Not sure if you mentioned this or not, but what are your town reads? All of them, not necessarily in any specific order.

vezok, MoI, Pappums, PaB, Thad, Junpei, Rodin, KJ and Silver are all at least medium town reads. Few others knocking on the door.

unvote
Vote andrew

The game needs direction and this is the only one you ponies seem willing to go with that I can accept.

Ideally I would still get my oversoul lynch here, but it appears despite quite a few people agreeing with it, no one is willing to actually vote him. Not that this at ALL isn't a hint at ponies like NC and Thad to join me in a new wagon or anything.

[Rainbowdash]

NO.

You know what screw it im breaking character because you people are driving me freaking insane.

What is wrong with you all? Look, this is got to be some of the most counterproductive arguements I have ever seen. I mean you guys, and JUST INCASE you are going to claim dense enough to not realize who you are - DX, Junepi and CB in particular, more are borderline - need to

STOP THIS SHIT

You guys are getting ready to kill eachother and clogging this entire thread with posts when its OBVIOUS to everypony else that NO ONE IS GOING TO LYNCH WHO YOU WANT LYNCHED. There is NO ammount of rewording and asking again that is going to get that done, but you don't get it? Why? I mean, give it up, unless you are SO SO SO sure, to the extent where you are going to post "Silver, Andrew and Izak are all very strong town reads" in your next post, give it up, move your vote, TRY AGAIN LATER.

All this is going to do is clog this already overlogged thread with more shit, and that will just lead to apathy with the game stalling and town getting crushed. Seen it happen before and I will be damned if im going to let it happen here. MOVE ON.

Vote either Silver, Andrew or Izak. If you are voting anyone else, you better be making a good case on to why all three are obviously town, since none of you have a case that holds much water on anyone else.

[Rainbowdash]

We were just discussing other reads...

THIS is the problem.

You are getting WAY ahead of yourselves. Concentrate on the day at hand, not arguing who is scum that you want to lynch D4 assuming no flips from here on out. Try and get the straggler votes voting for your top pick and please stop getting in page on page on page debates about somepony who you aren't even voting.

Only a Sith deals in absolutes. Applying pressure and feeling people out is an integral part of this game.

Succinctness is also part of the game. Learn it.

Way to much anger, way too little pony. Time to find something cute to balance this all out.



Ok maybe not "cute" but I don't have many cute pics.

[Rainbowdash]

Your way, we go into D3 with a lot less information. That's a bad thing. Your way, we're relying too much on the Night game. We have deadlines for a reason, and we're nowhere near ours.

Too much information does exist and we are kicking that wall down right now. We need a lynch, we need a night phase. Which of Silver, Andrew and Izak is scummiest and why?

[Rainbowdash]

Unvote
Vote Izak

Better wagon.

[Rainbowdash]

Would anyone help me be useful and sum up the wagons on silver, izak, and andrew?

Silver is vanilla town. Ponies are voting him because that wagon is mostly scum. Over/under is 2.5, I lean to an over bet.
Andrew case is two neighborizers targeted MoI and he thinks that Andrew is more likley scum out of those two and assumes we dont have two pro-town ones.
Izak first backed off Zinger saying we could work with him then turned around and attacked him when it looked like that lynch might happen. Also he suddenly wants silver lynched today after he mentioned him zero times yesterday, and is hardcore just sheeping the andrew-nieghbor thing saying that claim is what pushed him over the edge when again, he didn't care about him at all D1.

So silver is town, andrew might be scum, Izak is scum.

You are now caught up.

[Rainbowdash]

I'll do way better tomorrow maybe tonight if I have time. That's a terrible recap of the three wagons.

You do realize the silver comment was a joke because im convinced he is town right?

The others are actually spot on. You can't tell me that andrew would be getting wagoned today if it wasn't for the MoI claim, and those Izak reasons are why im voting him.

What are your thoughts on why I voted Izak?

[Rainbowdash]

Well I think the silver wagon is really bad. Im not kidding that I think there are more than two scum on it. Still have never figured out why it even exists

For Andrew, im not going to argue that removed from MoI thing he is obviously town or anything like that. If we were playing a three bullet game, he would be a serious competitor to catch one and probably would. While there are other things, its really just that backing the wagon which makes me uncomfortable.

Izak (or oversoul) is the lynch here.

[Rainbowdash]

I trust MoI enough to say andrew is a good lynch, although anyone who stops the silver lynch is essentially a good lynch as far as im concerned here.

Why do you trust my judgement? Clearly we have clear differences – I see Silver as scum and I think your stance on Zinger Day 1 was either scummy or stupid. We have no completed games together (although you are a clear Alt).

You obviously know what you are doing, it is entirely possible to read somepony as town and they are doing what they think is right despite not agreeing with all of their reads. Also again with the alt thing, going to say the same thing I said the first time to you ponies - If I deny im an alt, you are just going to assume im lying so why even bother getting into that arguement.

I still really dislike this silver wagon, that one feels really scum driven and dismisses a few decent town tells as simply WIFOM.

Since vollkan isn’t here I’ll take up the banner and say what needs to be said –

'Town tells' are inherently WIFOM. Unless your opinion is said player is so incompetent that they can’t fake behavior than anything that is inherently a ‘Town tell’ is at best Null, IMO. Chesskid is a prime example … he’s proven as scum to be willing and able to replicate ‘Town tells’ to avoid lynches and he certainly isn’t ever going to win an award for good play.

If you want to boil it down that much all tells of any type are WIFOM. Some things though are more likely to come by VT than come from scum, and that play from silver is one of those things.

[Rainbowdash]

Silver is vanilla town. Ponies are voting him because that wagon is mostly scum. Over/under is 2.5, I lean to an over bet.

What part of this is intended as a joke, please?

None of it. Apart from Junepi and Shotty, everyone on that wagon is a scum read of varying degree, especially Hip and Mera who I would be thrilled to see catch a bullet tonight.

Check out oversoul continue to ignore this game while posting up a storm everywhere else though. Seriously, HINT HINT somepony.

[Rainbowdash]

Silver is vanilla town. Ponies are voting him because that wagon is mostly scum. Over/under is 2.5, I lean to an over bet.

What part of this is intended as a joke, please?

None of it. Apart from Junepi and Shotty, everyone on that wagon is a scum read of varying degree, especially Hip and Mera who I would be thrilled to see catch a bullet tonight.

Then why did you say this?

I'll do way better tomorrow maybe tonight if I have time. That's a terrible recap of the three wagons.

You do realize the silver comment was a joke because im convinced he is town right?

Because saying "most of the wagon is scum" is not a breakdown of anything that is useful. My feelings behind it were true, but I know its not what he wanted, hence a joke. Still don't even really understand the case on Silver myself.

[Rainbowdash]

I can dig it, and we need a lynch. Andrew is a very acceptable one.

unvote
Vote andrew

[Rainbowdash]

Because saying "most of the wagon is scum" is not a breakdown of anything that is useful. My feelings behind it were true, but I know its not what he wanted, hence a joke. Still don't even really understand the case on Silver myself.

For clarity, it was the way in which you said it rather than what you said that was the joke, correct?

Yes.

Still disagree with Silver lynch though.

[Rainbowdash]

unvote
Vote: Izak

BACK AND FORTH SOME MORE YES?

[Rainbowdash]

Ok, so I am going to be perfectly blunt about all of this because it is bugging me to no end.

The game needs to move forward, basically, the game needs a lynch and needs it bad. I will vote for either of andrew and Izak at this point, whichever has the most votes, and I actually encorage others to do the same. There is a serious problem with a game past 80 pages and only on the second day. It needs to end. Andrew has more votes, my vote goes there.

unvote
Vote andrew

[Rainbowdash]

If Meran got ran up I would be 100% fine with jumping on that wagon or simply having him vigged. This game just is going to die if we don't lynch someone soon, so im at the point where I will lynch anyone I don't have a town read on.

[Rainbowdash]

I don't like the argument that just because the thread is past X pages on day Y that we need to quicklynch someone.. it creates a mentality that can only benefit scum. That said, I do believe Andrew is the scummiest of the three (feasible) wagons.

Ask anypony who has been in a game where a day lasted forever, whether its due to too much posting or hardcore lurking, it will hurt the town more than a regular length day, especially when its day after day. This one is way past its expiration date.

Do people need death more than Andrew? Of course, but its not happening. Its time to take a very good lynch that will get us further along due to increased role info and alignment flips.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbowdash, how long is a regular day to you? To me it sounds like an arbitrary way of saying "I want the day to end now so lynch andrew". Settling isn't necessary right now. We don't have to tunnel our vision to 1 or 2 prospects. That is VERY anti-town.

Passing 30 pages is getting too long.

Settling is absolutely necessary. Look how many people are actually posting in this game, and what its about. Everything is centering around three people and only half the game even seems to give two shakes of a ponies tail at this point. When its all circling around a couple ponies and the game is continuing to stall heavily, one of the big topics is going to get lynched. Period. End of story.

Day over, please. Its the best way to unstall games.

@DX - I would love to see oversoul or peregrine lynched today, but thats not happening today.

[Rainbowdash]

I tried to pressurise Pere but not even you switched too add too that.,, why'd you not switch if you wanted to see it?

I tired out the gate, no one went along with it. Trying to break down wagons again at this point is going to continue to screw with the pacing of the game and increases chances of a Silver lynch since most support for a Peregrine or Oversoul lynch comes from Andrew/Izak wagons.

[Rainbowdash]

@DX - Post claim (before andrew would have been behind Oversoul and Peregrine)

Andrew, Oversoul, Peregrine, Hipaddict, Izak. Meran and CB are also great lynches. Those seven need soon death.

[Rainbowdash]

I think the lynch is still andrew regardless of what DMSIK says here, so the lynch remains the same. Outting more info before night is going to just give scum more of a "shoot here" sign.

[Rainbowdash]

I think the lynch is still andrew regardless of what DMSIK says here, so the lynch remains the same. Outting more info before night is going to just give scum more of a "shoot here" sign.

What if I were to say... I'd be willing to lynch shotty if her explanation is terrible?

I would have to smack you.

[Rainbowdash]

Question: Do you or do you not see the clear contradiction in thought patterns by shotty?

Question: Do you or do you not see the reasoning for hard claiming cop in the situation shotty claimed in?

Question: Do you think shotty is town?

I see the odd parts, I don't agree with the timing but I would be on him being town.

He didn't claim standard cop. He claimed something else if you spend maybe five minutes reading his posts. You wonder why I kept trying to stop people from pressuring him for read justification? This is why. While im pretty sure he is at least in part lying, there are some things from him that in no way came from scum. Should I point out where he claimed earlier? I mean, there is one little thing I don't get, but scum butchering the claim this bad? Nah. If you want him to clarify some stuff fine since he claim is a little convoluted, but that pony is probably town. There is ONE thing that makes me wonder a little, but its a site meta arguement.

[Rainbowdash]

This game just... just really you ponies.

While I do not agree with the reasoning behind MoI saying that DMSIK is scum in full, he is a good lynch for other reasons, such as in the offchance he flips what he is claiming, thats three of us cleared and well on our way to town alliance domination.

Vote DMSIK

We better be opening tomorrow with a dead Peregrine. Yes I actually want him vigged over CB right now for the connections that now exist between someponies.

We have DMSIK claiming a clear on CB, and Oversoul saying he got redirected or etc off of CB. If Oversoul is town, that means that CB is nearly for sure town as well since why would scum redirect off of other scum? This just puts CB at more of unstable and probably vengeful-esq town who thinks the only way to get their way with a MoI lynch is to do this self-sacrafice thing. Thinking Oversoul-CB share an alignment, whatever it may be. Too much bleh to deal with there right now, I would rather take a good chance of hitting scum by blasting Peregrine.

@Oversoul - N1 result?

Hipaddict or whatever pony is in that slot now needs to die soon as well.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbow-So you think DMSIS might be telling the truth, so you want to lynch him to confirm you? lol...whatever happened to scumhunting instead of townlynching?
Conversely, Andrew was confirmed scum from DMSIS Iso 31-34, so why lynch him again?
Also, Oversoul did claim, and was the one re-directed.
You may be town, but you've just suffered a big-time credibility loss in my eyes.

Well, the role from DMSIS doens't make much sense balance wise to me, its like ultra-cop paired with other stuff. It even gives a specific role which just goes beyond standard setups. You saw the 'claim' from Oversoul saying that he had to give up two roles to be able to get cop (not role cop). The pieces don't fit, even the pre-game thing seems out of place to have a role exist there. Headstart twice a phase town role cop + force protector + other? Something is wrong. If he is telling the truth, cool, we got a whole slew of confirmed town. I just don't think he is. My question is if he flips scum or some modified SK.

The andrew thing just again is what confuses me because it really looks like the role exists due to his play and when he called ponies what roles he did. Still, this many cop shots this fast? I don't buy it can be a town role. Even if he flips town, its a good trade since he have three clear town. As much as I would love him to get cleared here, I don't think its happening.

Oversoul never claimed a N1 result. A JOAT would have a N1 result and im waiting to hear it.

[Rainbowdash]

Unvote
Vote Oversoul

Confirmed scum.

He just changed his claim. Also the miller part was pretty hard to swallow to start.

I turned my tracker and roleblocker ability into a 1 shot cop result, but someone decided to ruin my plan by fucking redirecting my god damn cop power.

I gave up watcher and roleblocker in order to get 1-shot cop ability. I used up that 1-shot cop ability on Castle Bravo.

Lets list the problems

1) Miller and another role
2) Change from tracker to watcher, I think a JOAT would know thier powers
3) Actually not USING tracker/watcher N1
3.5) "Investigating" vig bait
4) Actually getting a "tampered with" result
5) Scum would redirect off CB

Wagons go, we are moving stuff.

DMSIK get a reprive as does CB.

CB gets vigged tonight.

DMSIS we deal with tomorrow.

Night everypony.

[Rainbowdash]

Ooh, good pickup rainbowdash.

Just the redirecting should have been enough, not sure why I didn't pick that up faster. You have four basic theories on what redirect patterns are

1) CB scum/redirect scum - This is out. Scum would not direct from scum to scum.
2) CB scum/redirect town - This is probably out. Town would not direct away from CB.
3) CB town/redirect scum - Way out. Scum wouldn't redirect from vig bait town to scum when no pony has flipped vig
4) CB town/redirect town - This is gone. It would require town to have a very strong town read on CB.

Only other option is that its redirector that actually makes oversoul target someone else instead of moves his target. That being town is the only way I could believe that something might have happened, and if that happened the redirector should claim since it has caught scum.

[Rainbowdash]

What did I change? Nothing.

Fine, I will bold it

I turned my

tracker

and roleblocker ability into a 1 shot cop result, but someone decided to ruin my plan by fucking redirecting my god damn cop power.

I gave up

watcher

and roleblocker in order to get 1-shot cop ability. I used up that 1-shot cop ability on Castle Bravo.

That

Got to go do some pony stuff. Be back later tonight.

@mod

- There is a small chance I lose all access Thursday, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. I doubt it will happen but its enough of a possibility to mention.

Mod: No worries, if you are not about I will put you as V/LA.

[Rainbowdash]

I still can't believe that Oversoul-town switches watch and track but ALSO chooses to hold onto BP. I mean, I really cannot see anypony who actually has those abilities do that. To an extent I can't even see scum making that move, but moreso than town. Tracking is quite the strong ability if placed in the right hooves if you want to play the probability game of results. BP is next to useless, I probably would have cashed in RB/BP night one for the cop, breadcrumbed hard, lay down the track and then fullclaim D3.

Also MILLER? I have never seen a miller + other role ever, and really fail to see any justification for it. I can actually believe that a different game caused him to screw up his claim, but im still more than sure it was a fakeclaim, especially as it was messed with, if such thing was due to a redirect, then it means CB is town which loops us back to him.

As far as I see it, CB is either some cult-ish recruit role or is a vengefull type role (scum or not) who is trying to just blow his load right here due to vig fears. Thing is I am pretty sure he will kill town either way, so I want him vigged tonight, even over Peregrine at this point who can wait for tomorrow. His post somewhat attacking me is scummy in its own merits calling me scum for trying to lynch DMSIS, who flipping town would make me town. He also can wait though, not sure he is thinking things through.

I still say Oversoul dies today, CB dies tonight, and we can deal with Peregrine and Co. later. Just see lynching CB instead of NKing him ending very badly for us through a decent chance of him somehow damaging somepony I have a town read on. I would so much rather just let him get vigged.

[Rainbowdash]

You find CB scummish with a possibility of town SS and yet you want the vig to take him out? At least with voting we have the voting analysis to go through. And we have a chance of scum or a VT taking the hammer. Vig taking out the bomb at night is the dumbest idea I've ever heard someone suggest.

You are talking about two different roles.

Supersaint kills hammerer
Bomb kills anypony who targeted them if they get NKed
Vengefull chooses a pony who targeted them to kill if lynched

90% of SS roles are useless if NKed.

I want oversoul and CB dead, by lynch and vig respectively. If CB is SS, his lynch isn't bad. He isn't a bomb given that scum bomb is bastard and the game wasn't advertised as such. If he is venge though, he is going to kill a town read of mine, specifically MoI who isn't getting death in any way unless DMSIS flips non-town.

This is damage control time. Scum-oversoul botched his fakeclaim, CB is a possible threat to lynch so I want him vigged instead, Peregrine and DMSIS can wait until tomorrow for us to deal with him.

[Rainbowdash]

Actually rainbow, did you respond to anything I wrote?

At all?

Seriously rainbow, what did I write? Why do you disagree?

Disagree with what? Respond to what? You calling me smartest of the derpy ponies?

I think MoI is town. Rodin is neutralish and I actually have said that I have a scum read on chkball a few times. Not sure what you even want from me here but you aren't a bomb, that much is obvious. That means whatever you are you are safe to vig so that is the way to fix all of this. The solution to everything is already all laid out

1) We lynch oversoul unless somepony says that they used a redirect.
2) We vig you because you are nearly for sure town, but going into meltdown/liability mode. I mean

THAT

is what is pissing me off here. Through the result of Oversoul you are somewhat likely to be town, heck if Oversoul is town you ARE town, yet I have zero justification in keeping you alive because of this wierd little thing you got going on which is not going to stop until you are dead. If you would shut up and accept the fact that MoI is probably town due to the play of DMSIS and Andrew, then I have no problem with keeping you around since your other reads are not bad. This one is overshadowing everything else though and if it doesn't stop, you are getting vigged.

[Rainbowdash]

Vig fire away at CB tonight, there will be no listening to reason there. He isn't a bomb as per his own logic of it punishes town for correct play.

Tomorrow its Peregrine or DMSIS.

[Rainbowdash]

Alright.

I still got this shit and here is how we are doing things today

1) Junpei claims tracker result
2) DMSIS is fullclaiming everything about his role
3) We are lynching CB today, I will not be on the wagon, MoI will not be on the wagon. DMSIS will be hammering, and I want all of Peregrine, Meran, NC, Rodion, Mysterio and FC will be on the wagon.
3.5) There is a very small chance we lynch DMSIS today instead
4) Anypony on the above list that is not on the wagon gets lynched tomorrow or vigged tonight.
5) Return to point 3 lynchpool tomorrow. Preferably one of Meran, Peregrine and DMSIS.

[Rainbowdash]

We already have two ponies who have claimed not town, we just need to get rid of them. Depending on DMSIS response he may go first, but I prefer CB at this point.

Also I am staying off this wagon along with MoI because if CB is vengeful, we both are assured life. All those ponies I want on CB I would be happy if they got venge-killed. Should be around half scum.

Silver is still probably town so stop harping on him. Both of the flipped scum were trying to get him lynched over claimed town JK.

[Rainbowdash]

By Celestia.

Look CB. I will say this one more time in hopes that you finally listen to me because this is really starting to piss me off. MoI is probably town, not moreso than some ponies, but he still is probably town at this point in time. Does the situation with Andrew mean he has to be town? No, its a perfectly acceptable gambit for scum to play drafting thier partner into a group as its going to be town sided WIFOM. Does the situation with DMSIS mean he is town? No, unless we end up with a town flip from DMSIS which means he is really really likely town. His play reads as likely town play to me though, and that is what I am basing my opinions on here when you combine it with everything else. You need to get it through your head, we are not lynching MoI today. Period. Screw whatever sacrafical crap you are trying to pull here. I mean, I am like more sure you are town then most other ponies in the game for this wierd shit, but guess what? I. Do. Not. Care.

If you are going to insist on just chasing this one shadow for the entire game I have two options. I either get you lynched doing as much damage control as physically possible incase you have some vengeful ability, or I ignore you and convince everypony else to ignore you as well. I am not in the mood to do the second so unless you stop this crap, im going to get you lynched. I will say it again to summarize, I do not believe MoI is confirmed beyond confirmed, but is he a town read? You bet your ass he is, and I will defend him from somepony who I see as a threat to him. So lay off him or get lynched. Your call completely.

Don't pull the "he didn't vote oversoul" thing yesterday either. I busted the claim up bad, he never showed up past that point. Makes it more of a null tell, at least track back to things that make them look like possible partners D1/D2.

I also take back Mysterio needing to be on the CB wagon if that happens, oversoul play makes him slightly more likely to be town. Peregrine too, I am willing to back burner both of those ponies.

Vote Meraniel

Meran is by far and away one of the best ponies to match up with Oversoul. He went back and forth from ignoring him to calling him null town until the claim got screwed up.

If CB or DMSIS are not being lynched its Meran or FC today.

@DMSIS - Can you explain the alarmist role?

[Rainbowdash]

Wow Banshee is ignoring the Ursa Minor the the room by not commenting on CB/GI meltdown.

I am still torn a little on DMSIS. I want him to be town, I really do since I tend to hit a stride when I get confirmed. Part of his role just looks so, wierd though. Mostly the pre-game action. What I really don't get is the force protect thing, since I start running in circles there. It means that DMSIS is either exactly what he claims, or is scum/SK and that was his factions kill. Question I have there is, why PLJ? Doesn't make tons of sense to me for scum to have shot there. It could go either way, really wish we had a vig here. The VT claims though just make me think he does have his role, and scum wouldn't have a force protect role, SK might, but still probably not. Just throwing out three VTs? Thats going to take serious guts and even if you assume 75% vanilla, be about 60% failure rate, thats with high vanilla content too.

[Rainbowdash]

@Rainbow: I have no idea what's going on there. I did comment insofar as I politely refused the wagon.

Why refuse CB and not FC?

[Rainbowdash]

Is this a scum claim?

This game needs to be able to lynch something like four times in one day at this point.

CB
Meran
FC
DMSIS

All need rope or bullets. First two especially.

[Rainbowdash]

So the alarmist is weak (dies) if they target what?

[Rainbowdash]

@DMSIS - You are just lobbing a weak doctor action out on some random pony who is a null read for most. Your flip is needed at this point, and if we can get it from something like that its going to be best. Worst case it gives us another clear when you die.

If CB flips anything related to a cult, DMSIS doesn't make it through tomorrow.

Meran hammers. Silver is still probably town despite the protests from NC.

@Meran

- Hammer or we are lynching you today instead.

[Rainbowdash]

Another clear? Who is our currant clear?

Assuming DMSIS is town (which I doubt) me, MoI and Zelink are all cleared already.

The two biggest reasons he is not town though are

1) Pre-game action. With a role that strong there is a cop headstart? No.
2) He claimed inventor. Those abilities are a modified JOAT.

I just want him to self-destruct death if he is town to save a lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

@mod

- Are andrew and oversoul from the same faction? One is called scum and one mafia but they are same color flip.

1 - Do you believe Shotty's claim?
2 - Do you think Castle Bravo should already have been lynched by now and the derailing of his wagon that just took place is negative?

1 - Not at this point.
2 - No. Junpei (who is quickly starting to go up the needs to be lynched list) needs to give track results. Also we need to have a specific pony hammer CB.

For other things.

Meransial is scum with Oversoul. This comes through interactions being limited entirely to

Meransiel - nothing from him for quite a while. Null. Prod dodges. Gives no reason for inactivity. Yay... Doesn't seem to actually want to participate in this game and instead says, tell me when I am tunnelled so I am forced to defend myself. Mersan seems lazy and the conversation between him and Junpei looks like TvT

Currently Oversoul and Silver are on Pine. Dunno about oversoul, don't really care right now. But I think silver is scummy so my theory works. I don't like the wagon on Leon, because as I said I ISO'd him and found nothing wrong. Wait, Oversoul for prod? Oh, he must've just parked his vote. Maybe they're both scum.

Very nice little stance of oversoul being off, but somepony else being more scummy then him for doing the same thing. Same pony that all flipped scum have been trying to lynch since the start of this game.

Ok so Oversoul back with the big guns after a well deserved prod. Let's see what he says. Hmm...his reads are mostly null or town. Though I like the fact that he's voting silver. Null slightly leaning town.

Remember that post that was really scummy from Oversoul? Yeah Meran is using it as a town tell here. Next you hear of him he is voting after the claim.

Junepi should be looked at sometime soon too. He is probably a tracker but easily could be a scum one at this point. If Meran is town, that rockets Jun up the lynch list.

Vezokpiraka has recently joined the ranks of solid town with her last few posts. Rodin is obviously in as well.

@Nieghbors - Who suggested a Rodin investigation?

[Rainbowdash]

Geez, if I didn't know you were town that'd be scummy.

I c what u did thar.

Ok this will sound VERY HYPOCRITICAL coming from me but can we stop with the fucking gambits?

This needs to be explained too. Like how it is hypocrital to Meran who I can't understand how they are running a gambit here.

[Rainbowdash]

Rainbow, can you please elaborate on Vezokpiraka being solid town? Was it the VT claim?

That with other stuff makes him probably town yes. He has been on a steady rise up the list almost the entire game but that leapfrogged him over a few ponies.

[Rainbowdash]

Wait, people think GI is... town acting scummy so that... scum will hammer him?

I don't think any flip there would be surprising at this point. I just want everything to be as neatly wrapped up as possible to avoid anything stupid from happening. Just incase we have scummy player hammer.

[Rainbowdash]

pretty sure you mean a scummy pony.

No pony is perfect, although im pretty damn close.

Izak got quite a few town points for the way D2 played out, he is off the table to lynch/hammer discussion for the time being.

We are lynching CB. I want DMSIS hammering at this point. If the hammer does not kill him, he is using his weak doctor on somepony that the general concensus is leaning scum. If he is alive tomorrow he is lynched then giving us a nice ammount of "not mafia" results if town or finally dying if he is scum.

[Rainbowdash]

Um or I could guard make who we think is scum :/

No no.

We need you dead by the end of the game, thats the first thing you need to realize if you are town here. Your role is beyond overpowered, suggests cult (of which I actually lean you are in/are leader), and is actually named incorrectly. I mean, inventor gives out things to other ponies, not keeps them all to themself, a JOAT does that. Three big strikes there. Strike four comes at having a pregame action, so you are behind in the count next inning already.

Now, if you ARE town, you should want to die tonight. If you die, it confirms three ponies as town. We are lynching you tomorrow. Period. End of story. I could actually care less if somepony comes up and claims scum, there is a cop guilty, anything like that happens and you still are being lynched. If you get yourself killed by a weak action, you are saving the town a lynch. If you hit town, you are saving town from being mislynched.

If you are scum at this point you realize you are trapped either way I am sure.

[Rainbowdash]

Um or I could guard make who we think is scum :/

Then they will simply refrain from targeting you with the NK.

I agree with Rainbowdash's procedure as far as directing the weak doctor skill. I suggest Meran/Junpei/Fourseen/Peregrine/Mysterio/Jakalope as the target.

True :/
If we had a vig I'd ask him to shoot me tonight, but we don't ok I will hammer and if I live I will be lynched tomrrow.

Nah, vig should shoot elsewhere if we have one.

Also you still ARE using weak doctor tonight. No getting around that one. If you are alive tomorrow, we lynch you after you claim. But at this point, im nearly positive this is another fakeclaim.

[Rainbowdash]

All I can say is this:

Fuck you, Rodion.

Anyways, I imagine this changes nothing strategy-wise?

VOTE: Castle Bravo

Changes plenty. DMSIS goes first here I think. CB is self-destructing to get heat off somepony, probably DMSIS since oversoul flipped goon. If there really is cult I am thinking DMSIS leader and CB is a recruit. They both need lynching though.

DX needs to claim if he has a guilty.

[Rainbowdash]

@Banshee - This quote

Izak? Care to declare your love of strange religion to us all?

If thats a result we lynch Izak since it means he is prob-SK.

If not we lynch DMSIS once he claims his "result".

[Rainbowdash]

Why is CB going into meltdown mode? These are all the reasons I have come up with

A) Is town who thinks its the only way to got MoI lynched
B) Is mafia protecting somepony else who is not oversoul. This would be DMSIS
C) Is cult protecting somepony else. This would be DMSIS

In any situation, CB is actually the wrong lynch. If its the first one, CB is town. DMSIS is probably not town. In scenario B and C, CB is actively protecting some other anti-town which means that he is the less valueable pony in a pair of ponies. This is even more disasterous in situation C, as it gives cult another recruit. I will bet that DMSIS and CB are tied somehow, and DMSIS is more valueable for his faction to have alive.

Also all you ponies and your flavor talk. I recognize two flipped characters.

Seeing the response from DX

Vote DMSIS

Remember that

1) He had a "pre-game" action unlike anypony else
2) His role is called the wrong thing
3) He can force other ponies to bodyguard him

None of that makes much sense to me. He will claim his result first just incase, but he isn't town, and is our lynch.

[Rainbowdash]

@DMSIS - All actions and results.

I need to think about this one.



So much confusion.

[Rainbowdash]

You know? I am going to call CBs bluff.

Alliance time.

Me + Banshee + MoI

No the non-goon ponies don't gain automatic access to this alliance, they may later.

DMSIS needs to claim all of his actions. Then we still lynch him. Town ultimate role cop? I just really cannot see that.

Here is my prediction for what happens

1) DMSIS flips cult recruiter
2) CB flips cult recruit

In the event of more cult members, look on the CB wagon.

The cult was able to recruit for only two nights, starting N3 they are allowed/forced to start killing instead. "Strange religious symbol" sounds culty.

The order of lynches is

DMSIS
A) If DMSIS is non-town CB
B) If DMSIS is town, Peregrine, then CB

There we go.

Once DMSIS claims, he gets lynched. Peregrine and/or CB follow.

[Rainbowdash]

So what is this alliance?

Three town ponies doing what must be done.

We are going to pimp this game hard



Seriously though.

We ARE lynching DMSIS today. Worst case scenario we just confirmed three town and the SK. Best case there goes the pony CB is going full tilt to not get lynched. I mean, CB does NOT do this as rouge scum since he does get lynched eventually. Despite what it looks like, he appears to be somewhat of a competent pony, which means there is a reason behind it, and his lynch benifits his faction. Which means he is some sort of vengeful pony or he is protecting another pony, which would be DMSIS.

[Rainbowdash]

VOTE: CastleScumbo

Rainbow you've been working to protect Derp Castle for the last two days. He needs to die. Cut it the fuck out.

DMSIS can continue faking obv-fake actions for one more Night.

If Rodion hadn't been such a fail Newb this wouldn't be an issue ...

No.

You admit right here that DMSIS and CB aren't town and I fully agree with you, but your lynch order is wrong. DMSIS is actually the bigger threat here, despite being far quieter about it than CB is. CB must be protecting somepony with this recent play, it must be DMSIS, that means that DMSIS is a bigger threat than CB. You *have* to be better then this. One pony fakes a role that changed and aslo fakes a guilty. Another pony claims goon and asks to be lynched. Which one probably has the better role? Which one is more of a threat?

Are they both dead soon? Oh hell yes. This needs to happen in the correct order though, go for the throat.

Also seriously? I was the one trying to get CB lynched yesterday while covering all possible bases.

[Rainbowdash]

You instantly wavered away from CastleBravo after throwing down a half-hearted vote and tried to lynch Meran. Read yesterday again and tell me you didn't try to shift towards Meran as opposed to CB.

You reread yesterday and try and tell me that I was not saying "keep obviously town ponies off CB incase he is vengeful". Meran vote was to prove a point while not being on CB.

CastleBravo dies today. Because he's asking to and there are no Jesters. It's a big wall of WIFOM that you are biting like a Newb. Castle is more dangerous alive than Shotty is even if Shotty has ANY PR and Castle is a Goon.

When it turns out DMSIS is a bigger threat than CB, from the grave or not mocking will ensue. If my call that cult got two nights of recruiting and then is able to kill, AND that DMSIS is leader, AND that CB is a recruit. Oh you will be bombarded with so many mocking pony pictures you will not know whats going on.

I do NOT see CB being the type of pony that in a situation where a town PR is the only other lynch possibility at the time to suddenly claim that they are a goon and want to be lynched unless they benifit in some way. Either by saving a partner for a limited time, or by their lynch somehow damaging town.

Nuts to this. Im not moving.

Yes CB is going to flip some sort of non-town, but im not going to be a part of this crap when the right wagon is sitting over on DMSIS.

[Rainbowdash]

Look at it this way.

If you move, we can make a non-useful, scummy player hammer. Then when CB flips Cultist, you can mock MoI, and we're lynching Shotty tomorrow.

Moving only makes your point get proven faster, no?

I think im right, so im not going to make the subpar move by lynching CB. The wagon on him is a complete cop-out. He is going to flip something weak. DMSIS is going to flip something good from the same faction. Then I will laugh and post mocking pony pictures.

No I am not voting him. Get somepony else to, im holding my ground.

[Rainbowdash]

You're admitting to not voting someone you believe to be scum? I don't like Shotty either, but a Shotty lynch isn't going to help us. Can you help us lynch scum?

Yes I am not voting somepony who is going to flip non-town because I am voting somepony ELSE who is going to flip non-town.

I mean come ON everypony.

Even if you actually believe that DMSIS is a Role Cop. For WHATEVER reason your little pony minds think such, he still had a N0 action. Not only a N0 action but he is a rolecop that gets the ENTIRE role of anypony he checks, and also can catch SKs! Makes no sense for him to be town. None. Period.

He botched his claim #1 so he makes claim #2, AGAIN false. Why, he still has that N0 action he locked himself into. And the god tier overpoweredness. There. Is. No. Way.

NO WAY!

That DMSIS is town here. Given that, who is the threat? The pony who is doing everything possible to stay alive, or the pony who is trying to die? Im not voting CB. Line in the sand drawn. If im wrong, im wrong, but it should be quite obvious to even the Derpiest pony, that I am pretty sure that im right here.

[Rainbowdash]

Come to think of it, didn't Rainbow say something like "The cult was only able to recruit for two nights"?

Yep. I can see this happening since the wierd new NK only started N3, and there is one protective PR down for town since D1. I could see the mod throwing in a modified cult, as cults are explicitly allowed in this game by not appearing on the "roles disallowed" list, and only letting them get a couple recruits then turning into essentially a second scum team. The fact that the SK would have needed to have "failed" two straight kills kinda supports this.

I still am not voting CB. He is going to flip (in order) Cult Recruit, Goon, Vanilla, Other Scum, Other Town. 99% first two.

[Rainbowdash]

Hmm.. I'll grant you that it could be an SK, but why do you say specifically the first two nights? I mean, unless the Cult started with multiple members (which is my experience doesn't happen with a Recruiter), that would mean they have maximum 3 members. Why would they choose to start killing rather than continuing to recruit?

Cult that can kill is superpowered beyond reason. Cutting them off at only a few nights recruiting and then giving them a kill would be a creative way to add a cult to the game, although I still would be pissed that there was a cult. N3 the "strangled with symbol" kill started, which sounds suspiciously culty to me, and as I said it would require the SK to have missed two kills already. Both may be unlikely, but who knows at this point.

[Rainbowdash]

Not hammering

[Rainbowdash]

Good lynch.

Twilight

Sparkle

fakeclaim is funny.

DMSIS tomorrow, he still has that whole pregame action thing working him up the tree.

Also for the cult, this game explicitly says cult is not forbidden, when more common roles are, yes im paranoid over my least favorite role actually existing.

[Rainbowdash]

Good lynch.

Also for the cult, this game explicitly says cult is not forbidden, when more common roles are, yes im paranoid over my least favorite role actually existing.

Really? Why didn't you support the 'Good Lynch' then?

There was a better lynch. I am near 100% sure CB is flipping some sort of non-town. See the self-sacrafice, the thinking DMSIS is town, the wanting half the ponies DMSIS has cleared dead anyways, but DMSIS was the pony we should have lynched first.

It doesn't matter if the game doesn't forbid Cults. Any game that doesn't explicitly say there is a Cult and doesn't advertise itself as Bastard should not have a Cult.

That is what I thought but Im getting paranoid over them actually existing, since its one of the few ways I can see CB flipping since scum makes little sense.

[Rainbowdash]

[Rainbowdash]

Oh believe me im not getting venge killed. I don't even think you would be derpy enough as town to not only be sure DMSIS is telling the truth but kill one of his results. I would believe you are some wierd backup and are now scum venge before town venge. But more realistically cult recruit or goon, probably recruit.

[Rainbowdash]

Sorta happy with my play this game. Think town may have had a shot without the modkill and venge kill. Both those bumped shotty lynch back a day though, who did do a good job throwing confusion into the game. Should have listened to my gut and ran him up early, but the weak actions in his claim saved his hide there for a bit.

You ponies still need to explain why you lynched somepony you thought was a SK though in that situation because it would likely end the game for the town by giving scum the win, best case put town in lylo from there on out. SK would have needed to work with town to an extent to not be endgamed themselves. Also the whole point of it would have needed to require Peregrine to be blocked N1, not N2, and then scum not realize he was making the other kill, which admittedly I missed at first too, but bleh.

Scum probably would have won regardless though since no pony was onto all three scum, most just one or two.