Mortal Kombat Mafia (Game Over: Mafia Win)

Palisade · Post Post #31 (isolation #0) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 1:36 pm

I think ABR and Togeloo are scum, but I need to talk this over with my other head. I also have a bad gut read on Amrun.

VOTE: Cooldog. Not just on policy. #24 is legitimately scummy.

My partner did the math last night and determined six to seven scum, so I will confer with him to see if he's got any other ideas.

-RedHead

Palisade · Post Post #45 (isolation #1) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 2:42 pm

Dang it, Redhead. I thought you would've learned from last time that

I

should be the one handling the RVS. >.< (STOP. BEING. SO. IMPULSIVE!)

We'll talk our reads over in the QT a little. But right now, I can tell you this much:

Togeloo is indeed scum as Redhead said. "What's the deal with Cooldog and Fate?" *new paragraph* "VOTE: Cooldog". The two do

not

mix well. It's fake-scumhunting, in that Togeloo is trying to look like he's doing something productive, when he...really isn't. Combined with the thought dissonance between his first paragraph and second, that means Redhead was on to something.

Togeloo wrote:Why is it 14 to select a Kombatant btw? 25 players, wouldn't that be 13 for majority?

More fluff, with the same purpose--trying to look town, while actually providing nothing of actual use.

For that same reason,

Amrun wrote:Mod: Is the deadline really April 25th? O.o

I can see where Redhead's gut scumread comes from. This gives off an identical feel to Togeloo's post, in that it looks to be useful, but isn't.

Bunnylover wrote:Btw claim miller.

In a normal game, that's all you'd need. In a Theme Game, role names are vital. I really shouldn't need to explain why.

I'm leaving for a moment--switching computers. Will resume shortly.

~Almond.

Palisade · Post Post #57 (isolation #2) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:18 pm

And I've switched. Continuing on about Togeloo's fluff-meant-to-be-passed-off-as-content, there's the rules debate:

Here.

Actually, it only takes one vote on someone else to make that person a kombatant as well since the rules state the two players with the highest amount of votes go against each other. Technically, the player getting the most votes will more than likely get to choose their opponent if all other votes are on him, which is why I think they get to talk during the Kombat phase (it allows the person with the most votes to build a case against his opponent).

Specifically, this tries to give the impression of being helpful and useful. Know what's helpful and useful? Scumhunting. Know what this quote is? Not scumhunting. It's fluff.

I, myself, do have reasons for suspecting Cooldog, though not limited to just #24--but since it was Redhead who pointed it out, I'll let him handle it.

I'll be busy typing out my town-reads in addition to my scumreads.

Darox wrote:POINTING OUT MOD ERRORS = SCUMMY? YEAH NO, NEED A FATALITY OVER HERE.

Pointing out a mod error in that manner? Yes, it is scummy. If Amrun had just said,

Mod: you have the deadline set as April 25--did you mean August 25th?

Or something like that, it'd be null. If Amrun had done it in an extremely jokey manner, it'd be null. But Amrun did neither. Amrun took a bit of a middle ground. A sort of distorted fence-sitting, I suppose you could say. And that was scummy. It was meant to look pro-town, while not actually looking pro-town.

IT'S FUNNY SEE, CAUSE HE'S CALLING PEOPLE OUT FOR NOT ACTUALLY SAYING ANYTHING WORTHWHILE WHILE DOING EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

Explain to me how we're not doing anything worthwhile, when we've (well, I have, anyway) explained exactly why we have the reads we do. I quite frankly don't see it.

Amrun wrote:Palisade must be sacrificed to the blood god.

Bunnylover must fullclaim in her next post.

Aaaaaand, Amrun sheeps popular opinion. More than that,

Amrun:

do you believe we're bussing Togeloo?

Bunnylover wrote:@Palisade: Are you asking me to name claim (character role)?
If so, I rather have town agree to me name claim (not that it matter).

Yes. This really shouldn't need explaining, since the reasons are painfully obvious.

Palisade · Post Post #58 (isolation #3) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:19 pm

~Almond. (Sorry. I forget to sign a lot.)

Palisade · Post Post #61 (isolation #4) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:22 pm

EDIT:

If Amrun had done it in an extremely jokey manner, it'd be null.

Meant to say "town". Joking about/to the mod is a personal town-tell of mine. (Even did it in our confirmation PM, though I'm not sure Demon got the humor.)

RECK: I'm not Redhead. Redhead made the post in question, Redhead should answer. Simple enough logic, no?

~Almond.

Palisade · Post Post #82 (isolation #5) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:37 pm

I'm preoccupied elsewhere at the moment. But we have a CC. It's pretty clear one of the miller claims needs to be lynched. UNVOTE: Cooldog, VOTE: singersigner.

Palisade · Post Post #83 (isolation #6) » Fri Aug 05, 2011 5:40 pm

...And you can tell exactly how distracted I am by the fact that I said singersigner rather than VOTE: springlullaby.

Palisade · Post Post #200 (isolation #7) » Sat Aug 06, 2011 10:15 pm

Fair warning, Almond is working on a wall containing all of our reads. We've talked it out a little bit.

Since it was asked of me why I found Cooldog's 24 scummy,

vote:toog for not understanding that this has almost nothing to do with fate.

For the record, I believe I could beat fate in kombat.

It's pure cognitive dissonance. He says that it has nothing to do with fate, while focusing on fate in the second paragraph. Additionally, his random vote seems like bussing, due to how weak the reasoning behind it is. Cooldog is explaining his random vote too much, for a random vote.

It is the main reason I find him to be scum and why I voted him.

And I see we were quick-selected as a kombatant without people having waited for us. Almond says that he'll do the wagon analysis. He said in our QT

About one third of the votes are policy (scummy), one third are legitimate scumhunters who've misread us (town), and the other third? Seems like they're there just for the heck of it. (Case-by-case for those.)

Since there's a significant chance you will not wait for Almond to finish, (really? REALLY?!?) we are Smoke, a Vanilla Kombatant. (Almond pointed out how the name really suited the picture.) Paraphrased Flavor mentions that we're a mystical warrior of (you guessed it) smoke, and that we questioned the ways of Lin Kuei, whoever that is. Talked about cybernetic implants, but parted ways with the clan. We escaped enslavement with help from friends. (Not named in our PM.) Then decided to go out hunting evils of the realm. I'm not sure we're allowed to give the name of our voting ability and our passive ability. But, yeah, it's pretty much the standard VT PM with some flavor and a picture added. Nothing special. We're expendable.

VOTE: Cooldog. Springlullaby, Amrun, ABR, Kise, Fonz, and Togeloo are all acceptable alternatives. Almond strongly believes that's our scumteam.

-RedHead

Palisade · Post Post #255 (isolation #8) » Sun Aug 07, 2011 12:27 pm

Almond is still working on finishing the wall. In the mean time, I'm posting what he has so far, (Note that the wall is written from Almond's perspective because he had intended to post it, but...) since it looks like we're getting close to a lynch.

Spoiler: wall

UNVOTE: VOTE: springlullaby.

-RedHead

Palisade · Post Post #447 (isolation #9) » Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:31 pm

We hate you all.

(This is a code-phrase for: "busy with obligations with a lot to read and a lot to do". Mainly, we need a replacement scumread for Kise.)

Palisade · Post Post #453 (isolation #10) » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:07 pm

So, the scum have a janitor. (Why is it that people's first instincts were "no reveal?!?" and "he's not dead!"? Our first instinct was janitor hiding the body. Heck, the wording's identical to EpicMafia! "X is missing!"-->janitor.)

Cooldog's out, his guilty is in. Redhead says he thinks the last scum is Internet Stranger. I'm not sure if he's right or if this is just IS's normal style, but by play alone, I fully understand Redhead's opinion.

We realize that WLC is going to die today regardless. But VOTE: Palisade. Kombatants get to talk, right? We could use the time to scumhunt some more. (Honestly, you people really need to read our posts. Redhead put our claim at the end of a wall which contained all of our reads up to that point. Almost everyone missed it, only two or three people saw it.)

Based on the way they voted on page 16, I am still convinced Fonz is scum, and it contains a nice example of why Redhead's IS suspicion really hits me.

(That said, we will be doing a full reread in light of the new info.)

This brings up a good point. In addition to that, it would also explain quite well the extremely bandwagony nature of the town. Quicklynching us, running both Ludi and Spring close to a lynch on day one, and a WLC quicklynch. Only the last one is really justifiable, and even then, no hesitation. Nobody doubting Cooldog. Everyone instantly believing Cooldog and voting WLC. (That tends not to happen in a single-faction game.)

Which probably means (due to only one kill last night) that we have two scumteams of either 3 or 4 each (we'd prefer 3 each for the convenience of not having to track down two new suspects), no serial killer, and one of the factions' kills were blocked. (That, or they both saw Fate as so obv-town and mutually Finished Him.) Which means that Spring's off the list. And it also means that our previous scumhunting methods need a revision, since double-faction tells are different from single-faction tells.

(Oh, and told you Amrun was scum.)

Amrun wrote:This seems fake and not at all like Mastin.

Hydra, remember?

Vote: Palisade

, just in case the middle-of-wall-vote was missed.

~Almond.

Palisade · Post Post #454 (isolation #11) » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:13 pm

VOTE:
Cooldog

WeyounsLastClone
.
Springlullaby

Internet Stranger
(?),
Amrun
, ABR, Fonz, and Togeloo are all acceptable alternatives.

Just for reference.

Palisade · Post Post #538 (isolation #12) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:41 pm

Toogeloo wrote:
kiwieagle wrote:What is this....
I dont even....

He SAID he got a guilty in you. Why are you saying he got an innocent on you?

Why would he think your scum if he got a innocent on you?

He isnt so stupid.

If he got a guilty on Amrun, he would have voted Amrun first thing of the day. He voted Palisades.

In fact, he said he thought Amrun was WLC's partner, which would make Amrun a Black Dragon, not an Earthrealm Invader.

I believe Reck was stating he thought Muffin was probably Scum, and of the opposite faction of Amrun. Metaing a tad, and I'm not sure if this should even be taken into account, but Reck gave 4 Bah's when he died, and Muffin is the 4th name on the list... I could be reaching a bit, but not sure if that is coincidence, or even if he was (or should) be talking in code, so I probably will drop it at that. But kiwi is wrong about Reck stating he had a guilty on Amrun, that much I am sure.

How do people feel about Amrun versus Toogeloo? They're very likely on the same scumteam.

Palisade · Post Post #539 (isolation #13) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:41 pm

VOTE: Amrun.

Palisade · Post Post #564 (isolation #14) » Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:20 pm

UNVOTE: Amrun, VOTE: GhostWriter.

Though we'd prefer for Amrun to go into the pit with GhostWriter, 'less someone fears that Amrun gains something from fighting.

Palisade · Post Post #602 (isolation #15) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 6:55 am

Fonz wrote:He might have thought that he couldn't change his position on Palisades without making it super-obvious he's a cop. I'd never investigate someone I already had a massive scum read on for that reason. Investigate someone neutral.

Super-huge scumslip, guys.

Fonz knows we're town.

Reck's stance on us D1 was that we're scum.
This implies Fonz knows that if we were investigated, we'd turn up town.
In other words, Fonz knows we're town already.

Palisade · Post Post #604 (isolation #16) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:03 am

THESE PEOPLE ARE SIGNIFICANTLY MORE LIKELY TO BE TOWN:

3. Albert B. Rampage (role; we have more to say about this, but would prefer not to)
9. Darox (read)
10. springlullaby (role)
11. CooLDoG (role)
15. kiwieagle (read)
19. Amrun (Could be Earthrealm scum, but isn't Black Dragon scum)
20. Magister Ludi (read)

That's eight. 8/20 alive, who're far less likely to be scum than others. We're looking for a total of six scum, including WLC and GW.

THESE ARE PEOPLE OF EXTREME INTEREST:
(AKA, far more likely to be scum)

7. Ghostwriter (confirmed scum)
13. The Fonz (becomes more and more obv-scum with every post)
16. Internet Stranger
18. Toogeloo

Almond is working on some VCA currently to see if he can get a more concrete read on the rest.

Palisade · Post Post #608 (isolation #17) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:15 am

Indeed, she is not confirmed town.

But we know she isn't from one scum faction.
Hence, she's semi-clear and therefore off the hook for now.

Palisade · Post Post #609 (isolation #18) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:18 am

Darox wrote:
Palisade wrote:We're looking for a total of six scum
Please tell me when this happened I missed the memo.

Two scumteams. That's an even number. It's either six or eight. WLC is one, and GW is another. That still leaves at minimum four. Hence, six total.

We believe six scum is more likely than eight scum, especially if this game is as close to Mafia on Werewolf Island as it's beginning to look like it is. Two scum factions, a cop for each scum faction, a watcher...

Palisade · Post Post #610 (isolation #19) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:29 am

12. Bunnylover, Ermac (Town Earthrealm Invader Miller Doctor), burnt alive Night 2!
22. xRECKONERx, Liu Kang (Town Earthrealm Invader Cop), head devoured Night 2!

Burnt alive is quite generic, but we figure that someone can at least narrow it down slightly for us.
Head devoured seems more specific, like only a few characters could do it.

Does anyone know the flavor well enough to determine who the likely killers are?
If we can figure out who the killers (role) are, we can also determine which faction killed who.

Palisade · Post Post #612 (isolation #20) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:35 am

That means nothing to us without context--do either have a strong affliction with the Black Dragons or Earthrealm Invaders?

(Don't make us look it up. >.<)

Palisade · Post Post #613 (isolation #21) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:45 am

It's kind-of hard to tell for sure. But from the looks of things, Reptile is aligned with Shao Kahn, and his wikipedia page mentions him being the ruler of the Dragon Empire, or something like that. Does that translate into Black Dragon? (We...are not very good at this flavor thing.)

Palisade · Post Post #615 (isolation #22) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:59 am

Reck, in the position of being a cop, might have chosen not to investigate you, because if you came up town, him stopping attacking you would be a dead giveaway.

Which assumes we'd flip town. Something you strongly imply you know would happen.

Hence, scumslip.

This, however, IS a scumslip.

FUCKING. KILL. MASTIN. WITH. FIRE.

Oh? Really now? Seven plus ourselves = 8/20. Logical deduction on there being six scum, as pointed out. WLC already flipping scum. ABR having a guilty on GW. What in there is a scumslip?

There's nothing in there which isn't effing common sense.

Whatever happened to your town-read on us, Fonz? Realized White Knighting us was backfiring?

You're OMGUS'ing us, confirming once and for all that you are, in fact, scum.

Palisade · Post Post #619 (isolation #23) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:15 am

Sorry, you don't want to read Mastin, so your solution is NOT to kill him?

Subtly implies we should die.

He's saying that pointing out mod errors is not scumhunting. duh.

While at the same time, blatantly defending us.

I have, and I see an effort at scumhunting. The slot seems to be getting attacked because one head referred a question about a comment the other made to the head that made it. That's not scummy, that's hydra play.

The most blatant White Knighting ever.

Five words.

What if Palisade claims cop?

1: Rolefishing. 2: Unobservant; we'd already claimed by that point. 3: Instilling paranoia. 4: Further defending us.

No, pointing out mod errors is fluff, and pointing out fluff is scumhunting.

More unwanted defense of us. We needed no defense; there was no pro-town reason to defend us. Yet Fonz took the opportunity whenever possible to defend us.

OK, redhead, firstly, you're a gigantic, raging, douche.

1: Unnecessarily strong language to provoke Redhead, who is more likely to have been offended. 2: Missing the fact that Redhead was quoting a post Almond had made in the quicktopic, with it being almost entirely Almond'd posts except for pretty much the first and last lines. (Explaining the post is not him but Almond, then the vote at the end.)

1) Re not mentioning Spring: this reminds me of Egypt Mafia (remember that, MOS?) I've only got one fucking vote. With two miller claims, it's highly unlikely both are scum, as I mentioned before. OF COURSE I'm going to talk about the player I think's scum.
2) I'm getting pretty fucking pissed off with getting accused of white knighting every time I say I think someone's not scum and give reasons.
3) On that note, Toogeloo is town and you're retarded. Actually, he's retarded as well. Kind of an epidemic of retardation going around here.
4) Yes, I WOTCed mastin: I despise him, and he sucks the fun out of any game he plays in. That doesn't mean he's scum.

We've never addressed just how horrendous these are, but among his offenses here are of course the fact that he's calling us (paraphrased), "town. dumb-town, but still town".

Wondering if there's a janitor, why (s)he didn't act last night.

No reason as town to say this. As scum, there's plenty of reason to. Come to think of it,

So Bunny was a faction specific miller, but refused to claim it D1, then wasn't given a chance to by the quicklynch d2. Lol.

What's happened today with ABR is EXACTLY why we shouldn't quicklynch again. If Albert would have died last night, we would have lost an investigation for nothing.

This is all fluff which does not need to be said.

As he himself pointed out earlier,
"Pointing out fluff is scumhunting."

On that note, MoS' post reminds me that a possible explanation for no janitoring is that the faction with the janitor was blocked, and Bunny was killed by a vig. Though that would mean that kills from different factions have been blocked on consecutive nights.

Reeks of scum speculating with their inside-knowledge. They probably don't fully know what's going on, either.

Btw- people seem to have completely forgotten about Palisade the last couple of days. Somewhat understandable given claimed night actions, but kinda unsettling too, given how hardcore people were against them D1

Oh, look! Fonz the guy who was White Knighting us,
Is the first to try and get suspicion back on us!

Totally town.

Of all the fucking people you could confirm as town, you'd want to confirm Mastin?

This is another lesser scumslip, in that it also implies he knows we're town.

Tl;dr?

Fonz is completely caught scum.

Palisade · Post Post #620 (isolation #24) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:23 am

No, you slipped. Knowing exactly how many scum there are in a game is a common scumslip.

DIE DIE DIE.

Or, y'know. Doing the math. Logical deduction. Looking at interactions. Previous DemonHybrid setup knowledge. In-game evidence pointing to MK Mafia being extremely similar to Mafia on Werewolf Island. Come to think of it, wasn't Mafia on Werewolf Island mainly to get Demon used to doing

Large

Normals again? Bold for emphasis; it really looks like Demon used Mafia on Werewolf Island as a test-run for MK Mafia.

Hang on a second: seven plus yourselves? THIS is an even bigger scumslip.

Or you can look up...

...Oh, Mastin's scumhunting in any completed Large Normal. He always talks that way. It's called scumhunting.
Mastin always removes himself from the list of reads.
Mastin frequently removes himself from the VCA.
Mastin always knows he's town and includes that in his analysis.

Mastin's done that in every game we've played. And we've played in a lot of games.

Palisade · Post Post #622 (isolation #25) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:27 am

Mastin is not playing this game solo, though, T-Bone.

We're a hydra. If Mastin wanted to hydra with himself, he'd be playing as mastin2.

Palisade · Post Post #638 (isolation #26) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:36 am

Time wrote:No more evading

Evading what?

This is the sort of nonsense I hate from you mastin/palisade. There appear to be two scum teams, and you yourself even believe this is the case. So, even if Fonz was scum on one team, he would have no way of knowing if you were town or on the other scum team, which invalidates this supposed 'scumslip'.

Not really. With two scum factions and two cops, if he knows I'll show up as innocent to the type of cop, it's still a scumtell. He knows I won't show up guilty to a specific type of cop-->he knows I'm not that type of scum-->he is Earthrealm Invader scum.

Additionally, Fonz's speculation strongly indicates he's on the scumteam without the Janitor; their kill failed N1 and they killed successfully N2.

VOTE: TheFonz. Obv choice is obv.

Palisade · Post Post #640 (isolation #27) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:48 am

@Palisade

GIVE UP ALREADY

On what? Scumhunting?

No, thank you. We're going to keep pushing Fonz. And IS, for that matter. And Toog. We're just looking for one more name, and we have both scumteams.

Palisade · Post Post #642 (isolation #28) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:51 am

Lurker lynching is synonymous with lolfail-lynching.

Palisade · Post Post #660 (isolation #29) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:00 pm

Timeater wrote:If I were Pine/Mastin I'd be mad as hell.

Fuck yes I'm mad.

Fonz attacks us for a huge fucking piece of bullshit while accusing us of posting bullshit? WHY WOULD I REMAIN CALM?

-RedHead

Palisade · Post Post #661 (isolation #30) » Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:03 pm

EBWOP wrote:
Timeater wrote:If I were Pine/Mastin I'd be mad as hell.
Fuck yes I'm mad.

Fonz attacks us with a huge fucking piece of bullshit while accusing us of posting bullshit? WHY WOULD I REMAIN CALM?

-RedHead

Palisade · Post Post #697 (isolation #31) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:44 am

Apologies for my other head. I told him to rant all he wants in the QT, but to keep it out of the thread. He actually makes some interesting points when he does his Caps Lock Rage, but it's best for me to translate.

Lurker lynching is synonymous with lolfail-lynching.

This of course is only half correct.

Lynching a lurker just because they're lurking is lolfail-lynching. Aside from strong evidence indicating otherwise, it's most likely null. If someone has done lots of things which are scummy in conjunction with lurking, that's a different story entirely. I've nailed an entire scumteam for lurking, but while lurking was one of the things I used to pin them down, it was just an augmentation to the other scummy stuff they had done.

There's town-lurking, and then there's scum-lurking. Point out to me a lurker and what you see scummy in them other than their lurking (or if you have nothing else, convince me why their lurking is scummy other than the circular "they're scummy because they're lurking, their lurking is scummy because they're scummy"); I'll listen. But more likely than not, I'll conclude they're town.

IS wrote:Youre claiming to have the scum teams already discovered and we are still at like Day 1, since the last lynch was an autolynch and the one before was a mod-kill. Thats scummy behavior.

Right. Calling scumteams on day one is totally a scumtell. It's totally not pro-town to focus on nailing all the scum rather than just one or two. It's totally pro-town to ignore Interactions and aim small, rather than nailing everyone.

Yeah. You can see just how ridiculous this point is.

Time wrote:Palisade gimme your current and up-to-date top 3 scumspects.

My partner failed to address this, but we had done so in one of our recent posts on the page, presumably why he didn't.

Palisade wrote:We're going to keep pushing Fonz. And IS, for that matter. And Toog. We're just looking for one more name, and we have both scumteams.

Still searching. But primary analysis is indicating strongly that IS and Fonz are on the same scumteam, the scumteam without a Janitor (therefore the opposite scumteam of GhostWriter) who had their kill fail N1. If GhostWriter flips Earthrealm Invader, then that means that Fonz and IS are the remaining two Black Dragons. If GhostWriter flips Black Dragon, then they have one more buddy.

This post is an incredible stretch. My partner was not kidding when he said it was BS. We made it quite clear. We posted seven names which we made clear meant that those seven were far more likely to be town. Plus ourselves, that makes eight. Then we transitioned to suspects significantly more likely to be scum, listing four, and noted that we need one more, since there's six scum and we had only five total. (WLC+GW+*three suspects* = 5, obviously.)

There's pretty much no way that can be interpreted as "seven scum plus ourselves equals eight".

We made it QUITE clear, and have ever since it was known there were two scumteams, that we think there are six scum. This fits with our original post. Y'know, the one on Day One? The one where we said this game had six to seven scum? Nothing changed with the revelation of two scumteams; the math remained the same. Eight's too many; it makes more mathematical and logical sense to be six. If Fonz were town, he would've realized this.

Internet Stranger wrote:Either way, his whole premise that he has the game figured out is just scum flailing and hoping to garner some good faith before he gets lynched tomorrow.

Not so far from the truth, actually.

If we're gonna go down, we're going to go down nailing the entire scumteam. There's no more glorious death than that. To die scumhunting is the death every pro-town player dreams of. We're going to figure out the game before we die, and we're going to make it so the town has a guaranteed win if they listen to our now-confirmed-town status post-death. Make the town listen to the reads of the dead rather than discard them.

Anything less than that is a disgrace. Anything less than perfection is shameful, considering who we are.

Fonz wrote:He doesn't talk about his Angel list anywhere else in the post. So either he responded to me accusing him of slipping by talking about something utterly irrelevant to the number of scum, or he's actually responding to the 'number of scum' point and including himself in the number of scum.

The original post did. It was part of the discussion. You're doing more flailing than IS is accusing us of doing.

PS Eight scum total makes so much more sense as a matter of logical deduction. What chance does a group of three in a 25 man game with crosskills have?

25 is only one more than 24. What chance does a group of three (modkilled down to two on day one) in a 24 man game with crosskills have?

Oh, right. They won the game! Three scum is plenty balanced. Even the Mafia made it pretty far into the game, despite having been crosskilled, having two members fail in their gambits, and having a cop guilty on one member. Three scum per faction fits perfectly.

Bogre wrote:I'm not agreeing with much from Palisade beyond the idiocy of lynching Amrun based on the fact that he's cleared from one team. Seriously- you're going to clear someone from 1 scum team and lynch them over the possibility of being another? He's obviously not the case.

Secondly, I think spring's case is STRENGTHENED by the flip- 2 scum teams, 2 millers. Maybe 1 faction cop finds 1 faction miller, etc.

Know what I said about lurkers earlier? If someone made a case on this guy, I'd sheep it. Fine candidate for the fourth scum member, methinks.

Fonz wrote:Like I said, I don't want to go point for point with Mastin, because that kills games.

Something Mastin is more than aware of, by the way. That's why he's a hydra: so he has someone to make him more concise.

YOU'RE MAD? YOU'RE FUCKING MAD?

Fonz gets emotional. This is about as blatant as AtE gets. He was calm before this, and suddenly he goes nuts?

You're posting so much fucking unmitigated, total, bullshit that it's actually painful. Every time I read one of your fucking abortions of posts, I get so much rage that I have to step away from the computer for ten minutes. Every word of every one of your posts is not worth the pixels it takes to put together, and that you have THE FUCKING AUDACITY to call my reasonable arguments bullshit whilst excreting from your virtual mouths every time you open them takes my breath away.

DIE
FUCKING DIE

I've shown you why his point against us is absolute BS. We're working on making a better case against him, since he's pretty much the most obv-scum player we've ever seen. He's going into rage mode for nothing if he were town. Think about it from this way:

If he were town, and honestly thought we were scum, he wouldn't be talking with us. He'd think we were lying scum and wouldn't be addressing us in this rage, because he'd know that it'd only decrease his reputation.

Now think about it this way:

If he is scum, he knows we're town. He knows we've nailed him, for reasons he sees as BS. He's not denying being scum. He's denying the REASONS for being scum. In other words, "I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY CAUGHT ME FOR SUCH A PILE OF BS REASONS!!!" Put bluntly, we may not have the best reasons, but we're quite obviously correct.

He scumslipped badly in this post, by revealing he knows we're town, using (to him) sub-par reasoning. He already is aware that we're town. He's practically calling for us to be policy lynched--not because we're scum, but because we get on his nerves. This is in stark contrast to his White Knighting on Day One, where he defends against our lynch because he doesn't think we're scum.

Note that his opinion obviously hasn't changed: he doesn't think we're scum. His conclusion very obviously has--now we should be lynched, whereas before, we should not be.

In other words, a clear contradiction in Fonz's stances.

Toogeloo wrote:Why are we bickering over who is going into the arena with confirmed scum? Discussion is nice, but at the end of the day, just put the person with the most votes in there for a knock out of Ghost.

Fluff like this is why Toogeloo is scum. This is not scumhunting, but it's meant to be passed off as an attempt at scumhunting.

Fonz wrote:Because I thought they were probably town, duh. They hadn't started slipping and misrepresenting me all over the place.

And Fonz just admitted to OMGUS'ing us. Seriously, that's his ONLY reason for thinking we should be dead: because we're one of the only people who's read him correctly as scum. Because we're a

threat

to him, and he can't exactly waste an NK on us without drawing attention.

Fonz wrote:Also, MoS, time to extract your cranium from your posterior. You haven't made one word of a case on Amrun all freakin' game. You know full well that to overcome an investigation that rules out her being in one of the two scumgroups makes lynching her basically impossible unless you've got not just a case, but a damn good one. Either you're pulling one of those derpy gambits you sometimes try to make yourself look smarter than everyone else, or you're scum trying to look like you're doing that so you can keep tunnelling and never, ever, have to actually make a meaningful contribution.

Pointless White Knighting of Amrun, who needs no defending. Sound familiar?

It should--this is exactly what he did in regards to us on Day One.

Also, interestingly, there MIGHT be an Amrun/GW connection. You finally making an actual argument made me go back and read her to check if it's true (kinda, sorta - she does give reasons here and there, like 'There's no way both millers are town-' note I'm not saying they're good ones) and she random votes GW then declares him super town with no reasoning, apparently apropros of nothing.

Fencesitting and backtracking at its most classic! "Amrun's not scum, MoS."
"...Actually, she COULD be, but I'm not sold..."

Seriously?

You guys have a town-read on the guy who consistently contradicts himself?

Amrun wrote:And if you really think Palisade is town, why aren't you defending him?

We went over this with Fonz on Day One, Amrun.

We're Palisade.

We don't NEED defending. Quite frankly, it's more scummy to defend us than it is to attack us; why do you think we've been attacking Fonz since the MOMENT he started White Knighting us?

The fact that MoS HASN'T defended us is evidence that MoS is town, in fact.

Unvote, Vote: Palisade

.

Palisade · Post Post #706 (isolation #32) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:06 pm

BTW, we're confident enough in MoS being town to add him to the list. It's now 9/20.

Palisade · Post Post #709 (isolation #33) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:16 pm

1. NanookTheWolf Snakeplissken <--This slot has pretty much nothing. We'll be looking into things some more, and are looking forward to Nanook actually giving content, so we can read.
2. T-Bone <--Another overall null-read, because we haven't looked into it enough.
3. Albert B. Rampage <--Watcher.
4. zMuffinMan <--Another null read which we need to look into. We have a note in our QT saying town, but it's most likely gut; we'll see what we find.
7. Ghostwriter <--Confirmed-scum; is about to be executed. Which team GW is on is vital.
8. Timeater <--Null-read overall, but with a town-lean.
9. Darox <--Obv-town.
10. springlullaby <--Might as well be conf-town.
11. CooLDoG <--Black Dragon Cop; town.
13. The Fonz <--Confirmed scum.
14. Mastermind of Sin <--Town-read.
15. kiwieagle <--Town-read.
16. Internet Stranger <--Scum with Fonz.
17. Bogre <--Another null read, but good scum candidate.
18. Toogeloo <--Living, breathing scum.
19. Amrun <--Not Black Dragon scum.
20. Magister Ludi <--Obv-town.
24. Nero Cain <--Another null read; we had an initial town-read on Nero, but it has weakened.
25. Oversoul <--Yet another null read. Of note, Oversoul tried to vote us but we'd already been hammered. He's definitely a figure of interest.

Tl;dr?

TOWN:
Cooldog, Spring, Ludi, Darox, Albert, Kiwi, MoS, Amrun.

SCUM:
GhostWriter, Fonz, Internet Stranger, ? (In below.)

NULL:
Rest.
Timeater, Nero, Muffin, T-Bone, Nanook, Oversoul, Bogre. (Roughly ordered most town to least town, but we're still working on it.)

Palisade · Post Post #710 (isolation #34) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:21 pm

And again. We'll need Ghost's flip before we know whether Fonz and IS are all that's left of their scumteam (Fonz and IS are Black Dragon; GW flips Earthrealm), or if they have a buddy (Fonz and IS are Earthrealm with one other; GW flips Black Dragon).

Toogeloo definitely looks like scum. We're not sure whether he's a buddy of Fonz/IS or not, but we're actually leaning towards him being on the opposite team of Fonz/IS. (AKA, aligned with GW.)

Palisade · Post Post #712 (isolation #35) » Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:31 pm

And by the way.

12. Bunnylover, Ermac (Town Earthrealm Invader Miller Doctor), burnt alive Night 2!
22. xRECKONERx, Liu Kang (Town Earthrealm Invader Cop), head devoured Night 2!

We still didn't get an answer as to which kills belong to who. We know it's a broad category, but we'd prefer if someone mentioned all the characters who have a flame-based ability/finishing move. With that in mind, we might be able to determine who the character is. And if we find out who the character is, we presumably find out what faction they are, and therefore, which kills are made by which faction.

The head bitten off is far less generic. ABR gave us a pointer, but we're not familiar enough with the flavor to have any clue what it actually means; do either of the characters there belong to the Black Dragons or Earthrealm Invaders?

Either way, it's something we should figure out.

Also, keep in mind. In Mafia on Werewolf Island, everyone sending in a kill had slightly different flavor. Werewolves obviously had wolf-themed attacks, but every member attacked in a different way. Mafia had gun-themed attacks, but each member shot a different way--for instance, Mastin (Mafia Doctor) shot people in the head.

This being a theme game, it'll be the Same, But More. Whoever sends in the kill for each team will leave their imprint on it, so we can figure out not only which faction kills who both tonight and last night, but also who the four killers (role names) are.

We'll continue to do what digging we can. (For instance, if we figure out who the characters killing are, we might also learn who their fakeclaims are.)

Palisade · Post Post #745 (isolation #36) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 9:11 pm

Hey guys

I'm replacing Pine in this hydra (see OP). No need to thank me

just finishing my catchup right now

Palisade · Post Post #746 (isolation #37) » Mon Aug 22, 2011 10:51 pm

TS and I originally thought that because the scumflips were not made distinguishable, that they were from the same scumteam, the Black Dragons and that it was 3 Earthrealms and 1 Black Dragon. Until I stumbled upon this quote:

Kise wrote:I'm going to be the first to say that in a 25 player game, there's likely more than one mafia family. The Black Dragon would fit as a gang (Kano, Jarek, Kobra, Kira, Kobal... alotta K's). The other would be Shao Khan's forces (Khan, Goro, Kintaro... the list goes on). Bunny's answer will either confirm or condemn springlullaby. Ermac > Kabal in my opinion.

If this is true, we have one dead from each faction, not two from one faction. The mod just isn't distinguishing between the scumteams.

(This really threw our reads off, since we were convinced we had nailed an Earthrealm scumteam.

)

TOWN: Cooldog, Spring,

ABR

, Ludi, Kiwi, MoS, Timeater, Oversoul, Nero, Bogre, Semi-TBone. (He is not Earthrealm, but could be Black Dragon.)

NULL:
Muffin, Snake/Nanook.

SCUM: As mentioned, we were thrown off by going through the wrong path. But we do have a general idea.
Toogeloo, Darox (I've speculated that he's a Black Dragon Even-Night Rolecop to match with The Odd-Night Earthrealm Strongman), Amrun (not Black, but still very possible to be Earthrealm), and Internet Stranger are all figures of our interest. We're still trying to figure the exact scumteam out, but we'll go into full reasoning once we've worked out the scumteams exactly.

VOTE: Toogeloo.

Palisade · Post Post #855 (isolation #38) » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:22 am

Believe it or not.

We don't think Oversoul is scum.

Both of us have had previous experience PM'ing the mod and informing them of thoughts we were about to do--such as a Gambit. Heck, TS still does it. (Mastin uses his private QTs instead.)

Our suspicions pretty much haven't changed.

VOTE: Toogeloo.

Palisade · Post Post #946 (isolation #39) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:23 pm

Dang it. DANG IT ALL TO THE NETHERWORLD.

I went V/LA Thursday. I was counting on my partner to post. TS hasn't posted, either in here, or in the thread. (Kinda wondering why we weren't prodded, actually.

) We've had zero chance to scumhunt so far, but I noticed something.

EVERYONE:

Treat a hammer as a scumclaim

. We have five days until deadline; you can wait 24 hours for me to finish a reread

.

But needless to say, I still think this was a lolfail townVtown and that Oversoul is indeed town.

Palisade · Post Post #947 (isolation #40) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:36 pm

SCRUTINIZING TWO QUICKTOPICS: (Pine and I used a topic at the beginning, and we switched to a new QT when TwistedSpoon replaced him.)

About one third of the votes are policy (scummy), one third are legitimate scumhunters who've misread us (town), and the other third? Seems like they're there just for the heck of it. (Case-by-case for those.)

An old quote. I still think this has a significant chance of being correct.

Togeloo wrote:I'm not familiar with pre-existing Grudge Matches before this game started, what's the deal with CooLDoG and Fate?

Vote: CooLDoG
As explained, this post shows extreme cognitive dissonance between the first paragraph and the second. To paraphrase?

"What's the deal with
Cooldog
and Fate?"
"Oh, and I'm going to go after Cooldog, by the way."

Clashing. Thoughts. So. Painful. THIS GUY SHOULD NOT LIVE TO SEE DAY THREE. HE IS CONFIRMED SCUM.

In addition to the cognitive dissonance, there's the additional scum Motivation behind his post--he tries to look pro-town by defusing the Cooldog/Fate situation. Key words, "tries", and "look". He is actually doing nothing to help, and as the cognitive dissonance shows, he actually makes it worse.

THIS GUY MIGHT AS WELL HAVE SCUMCLAIMED.

Togeloo wrote:Actually, it only takes one vote on someone else to make that person a kombatant as well since the rules state the two players with the highest amount of votes go against each other. Technically, the player getting the most votes will more than likely get to choose their opponent if all other votes are on him, which is why I think they get to talk during the Kombat phase (it allows the person with the most votes to build a case against his opponent).
As mentioned, this is fluff. It has a scum motive--Togeloo is trying to appear helpful. When really, it's contentless padding.

THIS GUY NEEDS TO DIE PRONTO.

I still feel this is valid.

Amrun wrote:Vote: GhostWriter

Read the rules kthx

Remember how GhostWriter was null for 16? There was something which could make him scum, but something that indicated he was town--this reinforces the latter. Not reading the rules is a trend far more frequently observed from town than from scum. Amrun should realize this. It's common sense. As scum, you want to know the rules, specifically to avoid being called out on this. You want to be careful and not get caught. As town, you tend to be a little more carefree and don't read things as closely.

It's not a 100% tell, and GhostWriter's particular misunderstanding of the lynch system is an extremely minor version of it (hence why it was mostly null), but Amrun exaggerates it to be stronger than it was...to use it as a scumtell against GhostWriter, rather than a town-tell. This shows extreme scum motivation.

Strong scumread.

Actually. Amrun's confirmed town from this. She can't be Black Dragon, and GhostWriter was Earthrealm. This was not a bus.

Posting this now in case someone ignored my request and already hammered. I'm still reviewing; this was in our old QT, and QTs have gems in them.

Palisade · Post Post #948 (isolation #41) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:42 pm

Ludi wrote:SECRET READS;

MOD CONFIRMED SCUM: MASTIN

HHAAHHEHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

THE DEATH OF MASTIN HAS ARRIVED BY MY HAND

FOS: EVERYONE NOT VOTING MASTIN

VOTE MASTIN
And Ironically Enough, Ludi's extreme hatred of one half of this hydra has lead both halves to conclude that Ludi is solidly town. We both feel that Ludi would not be focusing purely on Mastin if he were scum, because it'd be ASKING for us to tunnel on him. Since he chose to do so, anyway, it means that Ludi is solidly town.

Strong town-read.

BTW, this still applies. Ludi is solidly town.

Nero Cain wrote:STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MASTIN. I DO NOT WANT TO READ WALLS.
We came to the mutual conclusion that this made Nero Cain town, because he was trying to stop our lynch for--quite frankly--selfish reasons. Once more, we come to the same line of thought as on Reck and Ludi--that if Nero were scum, him defending us for this would only attract attention to himself. Bonus points for doing it in all caps.

Town-read.

This, however, I'm not as sure on. Will be reviewing. (I'm going to pull an all-nighter if nobody hammers me. If I go down, I go down scumhunting, thankyouverymuch.)

CooLDoG (11) - Darox,
Albert B. Rampage, Fate
, Toogeloo,
xRECKONERx,
Ghostwriter
, Oversoul,
Palisade
, Internet Stranger, T-Bone,
Amrun
This was the peak of the Cooldog wagon. Coincidentally enough, our reads here are Town-scum-town-scum for the first half of it. But that's 2/7; there needs to be one more. Amrun's joining the wagon fills up that need.

This makes sense, because you don't get this close to a lynch with only town names. You need scum support.

The names might've changed, the conclusion has not. This needs 2-3 scum, one from each faction minimum. GhostWriter takes care of one Earthrealm, but we need one Black Dragon here MINIMUM, if not two. {Darox, Toogeloo, IS, (Oversoul), T-Bone} contains 1-2 scum, probably two.

Posting this since once more, I don't want my work to be wasted by someone hammering me before I post.

Palisade · Post Post #949 (isolation #42) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 6:49 pm

Togeloo wrote:Scum didn't read the first couple pages and see a Miller claim already and thought they could get away with one themselves.

unvote;
vote: springlullaby
This reeks of scum bussing their buddy who just effed up in the hopes of getting town-cred.

By the way, how have you not read your PM? You had to confirm through it before we started playing the game. I imagine you had to have at least read through to that part, right?
Further pursues this lynch. It feels like Togeloo KNOWS the claim is fake already. Like he wants to get town-credit for nailing the scumbuddy who royally screwed up.

Obviously, we were wrong about Spring being scum (she's confirmed town), but I need to look into this some more, to see if he's scum-thinking-he-nailed-opposite-scum.

Togeloo wrote:Statement 1 says you think you both are Millers (if you think BL is town, then you think he is Miller).
Statement 2 tries to discredit BL's claim to being a Miller.
Passive Aggressiveness. Strengthens our scumread on him. It's like he wants to be given credit for nailing spring...while not strongly pushing for her death, leaving open the possibility of her getting out of it.

Fonz wrote:Vote: Bunnylover Lynch all claimed millers.
Fails to address Spring.

He's saying that pointing out mod errors is not scumhunting. duh.
Fonz, take your shiny white armor, sword, and shield elsewhere. We need no White Knight. (This trend continues...)

Fonz wrote:I'm aware that SL claimed miller too; Bunnylover is however scummier. See how that works?
No, we don't. You said "lynch all claimed millers", and failed to mention spring AT ALL. Not even a casual "spring's is more believable". Nothing. You. Ignored. Spring. Completely.

We'll get back to Fonz's stances later, but he is scum.

BACK TO FONZ:
Fonz wrote:I have, and I see an effort at scumhunting. The slot seems to be getting attacked because one head referred a question about a comment the other made to the head that made it. That's not scummy, that's hydra play.
This is about as ultimate as White Knighting gets. HE'S EFFING WHITE KNIGHTING A
HYDRA
WHO HAS ONE HEAD BE
MASTIN
!
Anyone else see the problem here?

He knows we'll flip town, and him defending us is an attempt to make himself look good after the fact. "Told you Pal was town."

"Maybe that's just how Fonz plays?"

DUDES.
HE CALLED FOR WISDOM OF THE CROWDS ON ALL THINGS MASTIN BEFORE THE GAME BEGAN! HE
TRIED TO VOTE MASTIN OUT OF THE GAME,
YET NOW IS DEFENDING OUR SLOT
. There's no way that comes from town. AB-SO-EFFING-LUTELY NO. DANG. WAY. It's Cognitive Dissonance at its most extreme.

FONZ IS CONFIRMED SCUM.

GhostWriter wrote:Fonz's refusal to touch the fact that SL also claimed miller and proceeded to not give details EVEN AFTER BL WAS CALLED ON THE SAME THING is so lovely to see. SL is definitely going up with Pali now. We get an SL scumflip at any point, Fonz has got to be a buddy.
Has officially moved to town for this.

Right, so if Fonz is scum, then it has to be Black Dragon; I don't think GhostWriter would bus in this manner.

I also think I can get good info on Toogeloo out of this: both of them went heavily against Spring. If the Earthrealms/Black Dragons legitimately believed they had caught an enemy scum fakeclaiming miller, it should be easy enough to spot it.

Posting once more, same reason.

Palisade · Post Post #951 (isolation #43) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:07 pm

Did we ever post this? We never finished it, but it was meant as VCA.

1. Snakeplissken
2. T-Bone

3. Albert B. Rampage <--Watcher.

4. zMuffinMan
7. Ghostwriter <--Scum.
8. Timeater
9. Darox <--
Obv-town.

10. springlullaby <--Claimed miller;
will need looking in to.

11. CooLDoG <--Cop, conf-town.
13. The Fonz <--Scum suspect.
14. Mastermind of Sin
15. kiwieagle
16. Internet Stranger
17. Bogre
18. Toogeloo <--Tied to Amrun.

19. Amrun <--Tied to Toogeloo.

20. Magister Ludi <--Obv-town.
24. Nero Cain
25. Oversoul

That narrows it down, slightly.

1. Snakeplissken
2. T-Bone
4. zMuffinMan
7. Ghostwriter<--SCUM.
8. Timeater

10. springlullaby <--"miller".

13. The Fonz <--Scum.
14. Mastermind of Sin
15. kiwieagle
16. Internet Stranger
17. Bogre
18. Toogeloo
19. Amrun
24. Nero Cain
25. Oversoul

...But not by much. :/

I'm looking for four more scum.

CooLDoG (8) - Darox,
Albert B. Rampage, Fate
, Toogeloo,
xRECKONERx,
Ghostwriter
, Oversoul, Palisade
Fate (2) -
CooLDoG
, Nero Cain
Palisade (2) -
Magister Ludi
,
Amrun

There's at least two scum in here. I know one (Ghost), but there's another.
Not Darox. Could be Albert, but probs-not. Def-not Fate. Can't be Reck, obviously. And not us.
Leaves Toogeloo and Oversoul.
<<< Darox back in the pot. >>>

There's also one scum in the (2) voters,
which looks a lot like Amrun.

<<< Okay, so if I'm going to re-evaluate our reads, I might as well try to re-read Ludi, JUST to make sure that the above is wrong, seeing as how Amrun's confirmed town. I wanna make dang sure my town-read on Ludi doesn't go against the evidence. >>>

CooLDoG (10) - Darox,
Albert B. Rampage, Fate
, Toogeloo,
xRECKONERx,
Ghostwriter
, Oversoul,
Palisade
, Internet Stranger, T-Bone
Fate (2) -
CooLDoG
, Nero Cain
Palisade (2) -
Magister Ludi
, Amrun

HAS to be 2, if not three by now. If three, IS is more likely than T-Bone, but Bone needs reviewing. (He'd not be amused to be scum again. )

<<< Additionally, Nero's looking worse from this. We effectively have a single (4) wagon, here, when you combine the (2) wagons. Ludi is a town-read, Amrun's confirmed-town, Cooldog's confirmed town. You can see where that leaves Nero. >>>

springlullaby (3) - Palisade, Toogeloo, Amrun
Fate (2) - CooLDoG, Nero Cain
Palisade (2) - Magister Ludi, Fate
This is concerning for Toog and Amrun, but one of them is definitely scum. Confusingly, it still should be one scum in the (2) voters. I suppose Nero's possible, but doubtful.

<<< Shoulda listened to the evidence here. This is strong evidence that Toogeloo is scum, AND that Nero is scum. >>>

Palisade (6) -
Magister Ludi
,
Fate
, Darox,
Ghostwriter
, zMuffinMan,
CooLDoG

springlullaby (5) -
Palisade
, Toogeloo,
Amrun,
WeyounsLastClone
, Internet Stranger
CooLDoG (4) -
Albert B. Rampage, xRECKONERx
, Oversoul, T-Bone
Fate (1) - Nero Cain
Nero Cain (1) - Mastermind of Sin

Not voting (8) - Snakeplissken, Timeater,
Bunnylover
, The Fonz, kiwieagle, Bogre,
Kise, springlullaby

1 scum on me, guaranteed; could be two. {Darox, Ludi, Muffin},
but Darox is obv-town, as is Ludi. POE, it's either one or it's Muffin.

<<< Scratch that, Darox is looking like scum. For those keeping track, that's Darox, Nero, and Toogeloo who look bad, with T-Bone as another possibility. >>>

Spring definitely has scum too. Probably two scum. WLC is one, obviously, but there's another there.

<<< Can only be Toogeloo or IS. One of them pretty much HAS to be scum. >>>

Cooldog might have leftover scum as well.

<<< Oversoul or T-Bone. I realize we're dieing instead of Oversoul, but if Oversoul WERE to be lynched, I believe he'd be more likely to flip town than T-Bone. >>>

Leaves at least one scum. Potentially four, but doubtful. It's 1-4, so likely 2 or three. Fonz looks like one.

Palisade (11) -
Magister Ludi
,
Fate
, Darox,
Ghostwriter
, zMuffinMan,
CooLDoG, xRECKONERx
, T-Bone,
Albert B. Rampage, Bunnylover, Amrun

springlullaby (5) -
Palisade
, Toogeloo,
WeyounsLastClone
, Internet Stranger, Nero Cain
CooLDoG (1) - Oversoul
Bunnylover (2) - The Fonz, Mastermind of Sin
Oversoul (1) - Bogre

Not voting (5) - Snakeplissken, Timeater, kiwieagle,
Kise, springlullaby

My wagon had to have been scum-driven. Ghost, scum. There's more. Muffin, T-Bone, and Amrun contains 1-2 scum.

<<< Yeah, T-Bone's probably scum, as is Darox. >>>

Spring still has 1-2 scum. WLC is one, obviously.
<<< While true, this is concerning--IS, Nero, and Toogeloo are all on there. Only one of them can be scum. >>>

One scum on Not Voting. Possibly two, no more. There's at least one in the leftovers as well.

<<< Fonz was who I implied to be scum in the "leftovers" (1 and 2 wagoners). I think I might've been right about one scum on Not Voting, but ditto as to who it'd be. >>>

Palisade (13) -
Magister Ludi
,
Fate
, Darox,
Ghostwriter
, zMuffinMan,
CooLDoG, xRECKONERx
, T-Bone,
Albert B. Rampage, Bunnylover, Amrun
, Internet Stranger, Toogeloo
springlullaby (3) -
Palisade,
WeyounsLastClone
, Nero Cain
Bunnylover (2) - The Fonz, Mastermind of Sin
CooLDoG (1) - Oversoul
Oversoul (1) - Bogre

Not voting (5) - Snakeplissken, Timeater, kiwieagle,
Kise, springlullaby

Spring probably is only one scum. Nero looks town due to it. There's still two scum in leftovers/Not Voting, and three scum on me.

Posting.

Palisade · Post Post #952 (isolation #44) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:23 pm

Not finished gathering my notes, but on the VCA above.

My wagon had to have had more than one scum on it. {(Ludi), Darox, Muffin, T-Bone, IS, Toogeloo} contains 1 scum MINIMUM, probably two. That'd leave two living scum off my wagon as well. You can scratch the Nero suspicion; he's confirmed town. Well, at the very least, he's confirmed Not-Black-Dragon, since he wouldn't vote with his buddy like that.

Meaning, one scum in Leftovers ({Fonz, MoS, Oversoul, Bogre}. I'll let you know, the reason we haven't talked about Fonz since TS came in is whereas I see Fonz as Obv-scum, TS saw Fonz as obv-town, so dissonance extreme. TS isn't here, but I'll value his opinion and at least keep open the possibility of it being elsewhere. But if memory serves, TS saw Bogre as town, and I see Oversoul as town, so...yeah), and one scum in the Not Voting.
Snake-->CSL, and c'mon. Look at CSL. It very well might be him. Wait, scratch that. It IS him. Considering I have a town-read on kiwi, and we both had a mutual town-read on Timeater.

So, SCUM:

-Fonz?
-CSL.
-Two of the uncleared on our wagon above, with a small addendum:
IS and Toogeloo cannot both be scum, but one of them HAS to be.
Which means the remaining scum is between {Ludi, Darox, Muffin, T-Bone}. Ludi's been a town-read of mine forever. Darox was an original town-read, but TS and I found a lot of evidence suggesting he was scum with either Amrun or Toogeloo. (Back when we thought 3 earthrealm were still alive, we thought that they were a scumteam, in fact, until we discovered Kise's post which clarified that one scum from each faction was dead.) Yet we also were mutually suspicious of T-Bone.

I'm not going to flat-out eliminate Ludi or Muffin, but I will say, they have significantly higher chances of being scum.

So, if I'm right. If what I'm seeing is true.

one of {Darox, T-Bone}, one of {Internet Stranger, Toogeloo}, Fonz (?), and CSL are scum.

Of note. We determined T-Bone couldn't be Earthrealm because he didn't know about the Janitor. TS pointed it out; I'll double-check that area to make sure of it. We also determined that Darox and Toogeloo make a wonderful scumteam. This is only possible if they're both Black Dragon (since GhostWriter--Earthrealm--was on the wagon already and not all three would be together on the same wagon), when one of the things we used to determine Darox was scum implied he was Earthrealm.

So, Darox/T-Bone are likely Black Dragon. Which means IS/Toogeloo is likely Earthrealm.

I'll see if our notes can help me some more. Once I've gotten as much possible from the notes, it'll be re-read time. (I meant it. An all-nighter. I think I'm on to something, and might have both scumteams nailed.)

Palisade · Post Post #953 (isolation #45) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 7:37 pm

1. CSL NanookTheWolf Snakeplissken <--HEAVY SCUM SUSPECT. (To the point of virtually being confirmed-scum.)
2. T-Bone <-- Suspect. (Mutually exclusive with Darox: if Darox is scum, T-Bone is town. Additionally, would have to be Black Dragon.)
4. zMuffinMan <--Former town-read; figure of minor interest.
8. Timeater <--Double town-read.
9. Darox <--Former town-read; current Suspect. (Mutually exclusive with T-Bone.) Thinking it through, he might be town after all.
10. springlullaby <--Confirmed town.
11. CooLDoG <--Also confirmed town.
13. The Fonz <-- HEAVY SCUM SUSPECT.
14. Mastermind of Sin <-- Town-read.
15. kiwieagle <--Town-read.
16. Internet Stranger <--Suspect. (Mutually exclusive with Toogeloo.)
17. Bogre <--Former figure of interest (with a scum-lean), currently a (albeit weak) double-town-lean.
18. Toogeloo <--Suspect. (Mutually exclusive with Internet Stranger.)
19. Amrun <--Confirmed town.
20. Magister Ludi <--Strong town read.
24. Nero Cain <--Pretty much confirmed town. At the VERY least, he's not Black Dragon.
25. Oversoul <--While a figure of interest, I quite frankly think he's a mislynch and we've been locked into a townVtown fight.

So, TOWN:
Cooldog, Spring, Amrun, Timeater, Ludi, Nero (Not Black), Bogre, Kiwi, MoS. (Ten players. Roughly strongest to weakest right now.)

OF INTEREST:
Muffin, Oversoul (Muffin more town than Oversoul)

SCUM:
4 of {

CSL

, T-Bone,

Darox,

Fonz

, Internet Stranger,

Toogeloo

}, with Bolded being my current picks.

We'll see.

Hey, Oversoul. I realize that this'll be in an extremely twisted way (given as how one of us is going to die...), but will you be the kunkstar of this game? Help keep me in check for the next 24 hours? I really think I can nail the scumteams (plural, there) right now, but I could use your help if you're town.

Palisade · Post Post #955 (isolation #46) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:08 pm

Right, so my notes so far are saying...

-Toogeloo looks bad.
-Amrun's now completely confirmed town.
-Ludi prob-town, based on an old read. (But I will check. JUST to make sure.)
-Darox, Toogeloo, Oversoul, Internet Stranger, and T-Bone contains 1-2 scum. There's at least one Earthrealm in those names as well. This is all from the Cooldog wagon at its peak.
(You'll note that while Oversoul is taken out, all the other four are still on the Palisade Wagon, another thing pointing to Oversoul being a mislynch. For this same reason, it pretty much has to be two scum, not one.)
-Look into Toogeloo being scum-thinking-he-nailed-opposite-scum.
-Still think Fonz is scum this game. (But I will try to keep an open mind. It's just that...well......he just looks so much like scum. :/)
-Fonz if scum would have to be Black Dragon.
*Working from the above would suggest that CSL is Earthrealm, if Fonz is scum like I've suspected the whole game.
-Cooldog wagon had {Darox, Oversoul, Toogeloo}. There's one scum in there.
*Since GhostWriter was on the wagon already, it is significantly more likely to be a Black Dragon scum than an Earthrealm Scum.
-I might need to re-evaluate a Ludi-town-read. (By Lorithia, I hope not. I so want to be right about him. For once.

)
*There's some evidence suggesting one of {Nero, Ludi} is scum, but Nero can't be Black.
-Due to the Spring wagon having two confirmed town (Amrun+Myself^), it's significantly more likely that Toogeloo is scum.
-{Darox, Ludi, Muffin} looks like it contains one scum, due to the Palisade wagon formed at the time. If so, they'd be Black Dragon due to GhostWriter.
-One of Toogeloo and Internet Stranger HAS to be scum, and it has to be Earthrealm due to WLC.
-Cooldog very likely has a leftover scum--either Oversoul or T-Bone. (Looking like T-Bone...)
-Ludi, Darox, Muffin, T-Bone contains 1-2 scum, due to the Palisade wagon.
*Due to GhostWriter being next to them, Darox and Muffin would be far more likely to be Black Dragon if they were scum.
-Nero cannot be aligned with Toogeloo/Internet Stranger.
*This confirms Nero as town, since Toogeloo/IS have to be Earthrealm scum, and he was earlier cleared of being Black Dragon scum via earlier evidence.
-One of {

CSL

, Timeater, kiwieagle} is scum, but no more.
-One of

Fonz

, Oversoul, MoS, Bogre is scum, but no more.
-Ludi, Darox, Muffin, T-Bone, IS, and Toogeloo contains exactly two scum.
-TBone can't be Earthrealm due to not knowing Janitor. (?--needs investigation.)

Something doesn't seem to be adding up. I feel it. Like It's right there. Like I have all I need to nail the scumteam. My gut's saying T-Bone, Fonz, Toogeloo, and CSL, but Screw Gut. Gut would've lost me Sexy Sedilla. I won there by honest logic. I need to figure it out. I have all the pieces to the puzzle right there. I HAVE ALL I SHOULD NEED TO FIGURE IT OUT. But the details just...aren't clicking. :/

^I know, not an assumption YOU can make (yet), but c'mon. I'm getting lynched. When I'm dead, THEN you can make the assumption, and realize that it's true.

Palisade · Post Post #956 (isolation #47) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:19 pm

-Cooldog wagon had {Darox, Oversoul, Toogeloo}. There's one scum in there.
^This is what I think gives me the uneasy feeling. Looks like Toogeloo, which'd suggest Toogeloo and T-Bone are scum, right?
*Since GhostWriter was on the wagon already, it is significantly more likely to be a Black Dragon scum than an Earthrealm Scum.
^WRONG. Since Toogeloo has been an Earthrealm-scum-read of mine forever, and this'd apparently clear him of being Earthrealm. That'd bounce it back to Darox, making Toogeloo town and therefore IS scum, correct?

...Then what about THIS?:
-Due to the Spring wagon having two confirmed town (Amrun+Myself), it's significantly more likely that Toogeloo is scum.

:/
...However, this kinda supports Darox-scum:
-{Darox, Ludi, Muffin} looks like it contains one scum, due to the Palisade wagon formed at the time. If so, they'd be Black Dragon due to GhostWriter.

...But that conflicts with THESE:
-One of Toogeloo and Internet Stranger HAS to be scum, and it has to be Earthrealm due to WLC.
-Cooldog very likely has a leftover scum--either Oversoul or T-Bone. (Looking like T-Bone...)

...Which suggest that T-Bone'd be scum. :/

...And how about this?
-Ludi, Darox, Muffin, T-Bone contains 1-2 scum, due to the Palisade wagon.

...When I earlier concluded that both Darox and T-Bone can't be scum?

One of Fonz, Oversoul, MoS, Bogre is scum, but no more.
^This seems important as well.

-Ludi, Darox, Muffin, T-Bone, IS, and Toogeloo contains exactly two scum.
^This is pretty much a given. It has to be true. But it also comes slightly into conflict with...

-Darox, Toogeloo, Oversoul, Internet Stranger, and T-Bone contains 1-2 scum.

...That. Darox, Toogeloo, Internet Stranger, and T-Bone are common names in both, Ludi and Oversoul are both only on one.

...I'm not connecting the dots. I feel like. Like it's right there. Like if people could be talking right now, they'd point out something glaringly obvious that I happen to have missed. But I quite frankly...can't see it. I KNOW it's there. I KNOW I've stumbled onto something.

I don't think I can figure it out from the above, yet.

But the night is still young.

I've got more notes to review, and this games a meager 39 pages; how hard could it be?

Palisade · Post Post #958 (isolation #48) » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:47 pm

-I have a town-read on Ludi. What kind of scum--ESPECIALLY in a multifactional game--tries to get himself locked into a 1v1 with me? When all it'd do is draw attention to himself? When there'd be no guarantee he'd live over us?

-It's hard to explain why, but MoS feels town this game. It's a strong town-read, despite there being very little.

-Kiwieagle looks town for the reasons pointed out in-thread: the way he misread the Amrun situation looks like it could only have come from a town player. There's more to it, but I might require help explaining this town-read as well.

-Cooldog (Black Dragon Cop) and Springlullaby (Black Dragon Miller) are both the closest things we have to confirmed town, right now.
<<< And now, Amrun joins that list. >>>

Also, back when we had a lot more null reads, our list was

Timeater, Nero, Muffin, T-Bone, Nanook, Oversoul, Bogre.

Roughly ordered most to least. Nero's virtually confirmed town. Timeater is a mutual town-read of ours. As is Bogre, albeit weaker. Muffin, T-Bone, Nanook/CSL, Oversoul; all were of interest and still are.
Similarly,

Cooldog, Spring, Ludi, Darox, Albert, Kiwi, MoS, Amrun

Were our town-reads, strongest to weakest. Albert's dead now, and Amrun's jumped to near the top, obviously, but this list should be valued.

I did a very long ramble about why it's vital to get a T-Bone read. Moreso now than ever. Back when I posted it, it was due to the simple fact that T-Bone's the only other player here besides myself who played Mafia on Werewolf Island. (Bonus Points: we were both Mafia, the losing scum faction, so saw the game from the viewpoint of scum, and then from the viewpoint of the graveyard.) Now, it's because he's a pivotal point, a key read which can break the game open.

I've been trying to figure out which kills belong to which scumfaction. Obviously, we know the Black Dragons jan'd Fate N1, and most likely, the Earthrealm Invaders' nightkill failed.

But Night Two, there were two deaths. One of them is a generic one (burnt alive), the other one far more specific (head eaten).
If I can figure out who the character is that did the killing, that means I can also figure out which faction they belong to. (Theoretically, anyway.) If we know which faction did what kill, we can determine why they died, and therefore have access to a lot more information.

This still applies, especially if Albert was double-killed (this'd fit with Demon following NAR guidelines, like he was required to amend in MoWWI) and both the kills were from different killers than the night before.

-TS thought Fonz was town for Ghost's attack on him.
-He agreed on the Ludi townread by gut.
-Was concerned of fluff from T-Bone. Later called it Active Lurking.
-His initial Darox read (like mine) was gut-town.
-Agreed Toogeloo looked like scum.
-IS was a mutual scumread of ours as well. (But, well...only one can be scum.)
-Thought Muffin was town.
-(Gut?) town feel from Bogre.
The mentioned T-Bone Post. It does look strong, reviewing it, so T-Bone-->Not Earthrealm.
-He did read Oversoul as town, though.

-Reading my notes, MoS town-read slightly strengthened. Toogeloo scumread slightly strengthened as well, due to the Spring thing.

1. NanookTheWolf Snakeplissken <-- ?
2. T-Bone <--Not Earthrealm.
4. zMuffinMan <-- ?
8. Timeater <--Town.
9. Darox <--Still scum. (Black?)
13. The Fonz <--Dissonance.
14. Mastermind of Sin <--Town.
15. kiwieagle <--Also town.
16. Internet Stranger <--Scum?
17. Bogre <--(weak)Town
18. Toogeloo <--Scum.
20. Magister Ludi <--Town.
24. Nero Cain <--(weak)Town.
25. Oversoul <--Town.

So...

TOWN:
Cooldog, Spring, ABR, Ludi, Kiwi, MoS, Timeater, Oversoul, Nero, Bogre,

NULL:
Muffin, Snake/Nanook.

(At this stage, we were just recovering from learning Amrun-Darox-Toogeloo was an impossible scumteam, since there was already an Earthrealm scum dead, ruining our theory at the time.

So, Darox and Toogeloo were instinctively still listed as Black Dragon [not Earthrealm--we had a reason] Scum, with no clue as to the Black Dragons.)

Our T-Bone scumread developed as the day went on, becoming stronger and stronger. I still wanna meta him with his play in MoWWI, see if it's the same, since, well, multi-factional game; his play'd be virtually identical if he got a virtually identical role.

That's all I can get from my notes. On to the thread.