Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Yosarian2]

How about we DON'T TELL THE DOCTORS WHAT TO DO nor ask the doctors what they're going to do? This is not something we shoudl be planning in thread, period.

[Yosarian2]

1. Protecting someone from recruit, preventing a recruitment from happening, is much better for the town then you watching Kinetic recruit someone and then us lynching that person tomorrow, and fairly obviously so. The idea that we should waste a protection on you just so you can watch someone else makes no sense from a pro-town perspective.

I think that applies to Magister too.

(nods) Absolutely. Magister already mentioned that he might or might not protect me tonight, I think he said he'd flip a coin. Which is good, since again, he also has the ability to make the cult kill fail.

[Yosarian2]

Because he was fencing in the last few days.
The only thing he was vocal about was the location claiming and cult doc directing thing.

This post doesn't seem like fencesitting to me.

No, that post is scummy for other reasons.

[Yosarian2]

Lol. Yeah, that was a pretty slow hammer.

[Yosarian2]

I targeted Yos, but he's apparently very hard to find.

...why would you do that?

[Yosarian2]

God, triggerhappy vigs always scare the hell out of me. Yeesh. Half the time they do more damage to the town then entire scum groups.

Is there any specific reason you suspect me and tried to shoot me, NS, even though I've been protected from recruitment by ML for the past 5 nights? And if so, is there a reason you didn't, like, QUESTION me yesterday rather then just randomly firing on obvtown people for no reason?

Anyway, trying to stay on focus here, my top choice for scum right now is probably Cobbler. Since a couple of people have expressed suspicion on ConSpiracy I'll go back and re-read him as well.

[Yosarian2]

Fritzler's early posting looks like town-Fritzler to me. That being said, that was a long time ago, and reads that old probably aren't much good in a cult game since he could have been recruited since then.

After ConSpiracy replaced, the slot looks worse to me. The accusation that ML was "quickhammering" when he was doing nothing of the sort was kind of a scummy post; it implies that perhaps ConSpiracy is scum who knew that we were lynching a town, and he wanted to make ML look bad for it. This is even worse since he himself was voting for Zdenek. He later said that he was just skimming and didn't realize it wasn't a quickhemmer, which is not a completely implausible defense, but that still dosn't deal with the fact that he was attacking ML for hammering a wagon THAT HE WAS ON at the time, and that he was doing so before the alignment flip on Zdenek. He doesn't really come off looking good here.

Even worse is ConSpiracy's attempts to lynch Bvoigt after he claimed cult-doc. Obviously the cult badly wants to get rid of an unrecruitable cult doc somehow, and we haven't seen any sign yet of the cult doing any kills (vigs, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the two of your claims together account for all the kills we've seen, right?), so it's certainly possible that he decided to take a chance and try to lynch the cult-doc out of the game. Somewhat risky play, but a cult would probably gladly trade a recruit to get rid of an unrecrutable cult-doc. He spent a lot of time trying to do that, too, more then he did really on anything else all game. (I'd quote them here, but it'd be a unreadable wall, so I'd just recommend that everyone read all of ConSpiracy's posts from #29-#38).

Yeah, ConSpiracy looks like a good suspect to me. I think there's a pretty good chance he's been recruited.

Fos:ConSpiracy

[Yosarian2]

Yos, of the two people you expressed suspicion of, who would you rather vote, Cobble or Conspiracy?

Conspiracy, now. I actually didn't realize how scummy he was until I did that ISO read on him a few minutes ago, but he looks pretty bad to me right now.

[Yosarian2]

Cobbler: what do you think about my case on conspiracy? Is there a reason you didn't even comment on it?

[Yosarian2]

I feel confident in this

Vote: ConSpiracy

(nods) I'd probably join you, but I really want to hear Hero and whoever else's results before we rush to a lynch.

I don't really get why Hero hasn't claimed results in like 4 days or something like that now. He's out as a cop, and it's not like confirmed innocents "keep" that long in a cult game.

[Yosarian2]

Okay, I know this was a stupid thing.
However, what would you think when the only thing you saw in a post was "

Vote: Zdenek

", not having read his next-to-latest post that he would quickhammer in a couple of hours and checking the votecount if a lynch occured? That'd say quick-lynch to me.

(shrug) Again, I can understand that being a product of you skimming.

It dosn't deal with the bigger issue, though. You were voting for Zdenek at the time, and someone came in and hammered. I would think your first thought would at least include some hope that the guy you were voting for would flip scum, but it seemed like you already knew he wouldn't from the way you were attacking ML for hammering.

[Yosarian2]

Yos- Fucking claim or give me a reason not to and stop ignoring me

Dude, chill out.

I don't see any special reason why I should claim today. If I had any information that would help the town lynch scum today, I would claim. But of course I don't, and couldn't no matter what my role was.

(shrug) If people really want me to claim, I will; no real harm in it now that almost everyone else foolishly has. No real gain to the town from me doing it either, though.

[Yosarian2]

Flameaxe/Yos- Ya... and if you are scum, then there is scum gain, which is what I'm trying to eliminate.

The thing is, IF you are town, there is no gain. What it does is takes the chance that if you are scum, there will be negative gain.

So...your argument is that it only helps the town for me to claim if I am scum?

Wouldn't it logically follow that therefore, since I know that I'm town, that it would be anti-town for me to claim?

I don't really get why anyone without information has claimed; it's fairly likely that all the claims we've forced out are going to be a disaster for the town in the long run.

[Yosarian2]

On another note, looks like I'm going to suddenly be V/LA for the next 3-4 days. I'll put down a vote on ConSpiracy now, so that dosn't stall the game. I really can't see him being town at this point in any case.

Vote:ConSpiracy

[Yosarian2]

Yos- Your logic is wrong there. If it doesn't hurt town, but hurts scum then there should be no reason not to claim.

Well, except that of course me claiming would hurt town, no matter what my role was. If I had information to share, then it could hypothetically help town more, but here it really dosn't.

Why should you claim if you are town? Well, failure to do so doesn't hurt you, but does alleviate the suspicion that you are scum and are hiding something.

Claiming just so that the town is less likely to lynch you and suspects you less, also known as "claiming to pressure", is usually only a good idea when you're at lynch -2 or something like that.

Anyway, I'm off for the weekend. Be back on Tuesday or so. Later everyone

[Yosarian2]

Ok, back from V/LA.

About the things asked to me.
Herod: No my claim doesn't help any one.
Just in case I am lynched during the time I'm V/La, I am a non-consecutive night commuter.
However, I never commuted (neither did Fritzler), because it doesn't make any sense to commute.
1. If culted, cult becomes more powerful. (so do I then)
2. If copped, I am innocent.
3. If doc'ed, no harm done
4. If RB'ed, no harm done
5. If tracked/watched etc. no harm done.
6. If vigged, I am apparently too culty. (Mislynch avoided)
7. If I do not commute, I could visit a spot

So...you are a commuter, but you never commuted, because you wanted to be culted and/or vigged? That dosn't make a lot of sense. The idea that getting vigged "averts a mislynch" is silly; vigs try to do all kinds of anti-town things, like NS apparently trying to vig me for no reason last night even though no one seems to suspect me at this point and I have no votes. And the idea that you didn't commute because you wanted to be culted...well, it seems like you probably got your wish, if that's actually true.

[Yosarian2]

It occurs to me that we could test ConSpiracy's commuter claim, by just having him commute tonight and directing one of the two vigs to target him tonight. Of course, if he's telling the truth it still wouldn't mean he's town, but perhaps we could rule out the possibility of him being a lying cult roleblocker.

[Yosarian2]

Been gone due to school/moving in. Back now.


Yos, I don't like that plan.
1) Con is lying about his role/alignment, vigging him would flip us cult (best scenerio)
2) Con is lying about alignment, vigging him would waste a vig shot and he will still be alive tomorrow giving us no information on his alignment
3) Con is telling the truth, same as 2
4) Con is telling the truth, scum can RB him and he will flip town

Best scenerio reward is outweighed by what would hurt us.

It sounds like Con was claiming that when he commmutes he actually becomes untargatable, which means he probably can't be roleblocked, so I don't think #4 is possible.

That being said, Bunny is probably right; it's probably not worth spending a vig kill on it when it doesn't give us anything solid either way. Ok, back to plan A; let's just lynch him.

[Yosarian2]

Good game, everyone.

I've got to say, I think Flay finally managed to make a balanced double-cult game. We were inches away from losing for literally days; the other cult went down; and even towards the end there, we still could have lost if the town hadn't massclaimed.

[Yosarian2]

By the way, that whole thing about how ML said that he'd know if Hero got recruited? That was never actually true, it was a fairly brilliant pro-town gambit on his part to keep the cop safe, and it worked, to; we bought it hook, line, and sinker.

[Yosarian2]

Assuming Yos2 was conftown because of the JK was kinda though...

(shrug) The only way I could have been scum was if Kenetic targeted me night 0, and that's only, what, a 1/20 chance? Come on, how likely is that?

Heh. If I was Kinetic, I wouldn't have recruited me on night zero. I was almost lynched day 1 just on the WIFOM of "of course the scum would want to recruit Yos".

Also, I was able to act really pro-town for quite a while; as I mentioned in the quicktopic, I was doing good scumhunting on the other scum group and was pushing for all the Albert-scum lynches. In fact, I kind of doubt that the ABR culties would have been all been lynched if I had been lynched day 0.

[Yosarian2]

I couldn't believe Yos2 defending me like he did. As has been said, that was a pivotal moment and one of those risk/reward scenarios that worked perfectly. I don't I would ever have the balls to do something like that.

It's especially funny since I was the one who almost got you lynched on day 1, before you were recruited, and then to defend you I had to fight against that same paranoia about you I helped create several days before.

[Yosarian2]

I figured we were likely under the same sucession I time-stamp rules as well, porochaz. In Sucession I, whichever cult leader got the recruit in first, won. It was game-changing more then once. So ABR probably felt like he had to get his choices in right away, without time to discuss stuff with you

[Yosarian2]

Someone (Yos, I think) said something about Cult games sucking the life out of Towns. I think there's some merit to that; Town either wins early or they grind/implode to a loss. This will probably be my last Cult game I run; while I think the White Flag+Stump innovation is a good one, I'm sorta sick of the overall feel the game gets.

Well, it's very likely that town either wins early in a cult game or loses. That being said, I don't think that was true in this game; town could really have won at any point, right up until they massclaimed for no reason. They had so much power at that point, if they had just kept most of their roles hidden and made smart night choices, they probably would have won even at that point.

[Yosarian2]

Next time we're killing Yos N0.

(shrug) Next time, cult recruiter shouldn't target me night zero. That nearly cost Kinetic the game back on day 1, it was too obvious.