Succession Mafia II: OVER!

[Battousai]

/confirm

I am a bank clerk.... boring. Backstory- I am not really a bank clerk, but an investigative journalist. I've gone in undercover to determine any truth to the bank manager laundering money for the mafia and the government coverup of it.

But don't tell anyone!

[Battousai]

VOTE: Magister Ludi

1) low profile, less likely to be recruited, therefore more likely to be recruited D1.
2) Came in trying to control the thought process of the town- don't scum hunt, try and outguess the CRs = cult recruit, probably Kinetic's


Also, I will not follow the CRs plan. Mainly because of 2) and the fact that I'd rather rely on my own thinking process than someone else's.




I'll be posting less often Monday-Thursday because of my internship (don't have clearance to use a computer), which will seem more lurky due to the large number of players/posts of a game of this size. I will post at least once a day during that time.

[Battousai]

I don't see any incompatibility. I would not have wanted any pressure on Cobblerfone if I thought he was town, either. But Cobbler appeared to basically claim scum, and without any pressure.

Wut?

I'd rather not see Ludi, in particular, pushed too hard, because he's a newbie and may look scummy even as a townie if he's pressured.

So if we feel that Ludi is scum, we shouldn't push hard because he will act scummy? Wouldn't he also act scummy if he is scum? Why should we treat him with kid gloves, especially in a cult heavy game? How has he acted in a pro-town way? All I've seen from him was him really trying to hunt for the recruits by trying to outguess a player (whom is trying to outguess another CR and the town, which adds another level of difficulty) and to lead the town into the same thought process.

[Battousai]

Wut what? I already explained how Cobbler's comment resembled a scumslip.

That's not the problem that I saw. I want to know why you think we should treat a noobie with kid gloves. I want to know why I shouldn't press on someone I find to be scummy, because he may make a scumslip (and be town).

[Battousai]

Herodotus- No. I do not like giving newbies passes. I've been screwed over many a times because I took skill level into consideration.

Just want to point out that if I were ABR or Kinetic and was looking forward to beating the other, I wouldn't be helping the town against the other cult D1. Where's the sense of victory over the other cult if the town wipes them out?

Yos- You clearly haven't played with me often enough to know my scum meta based on your description of me.

Not liking Cobb or xvart, as well as Ludi. Claiming unrecruitable is similar to me as someone claiming bulletproof in a normal game. Combine that with his play - voting someone because their role is doctor (changes it for a policy lynch for an ongoing game ) However, xvart's attack on him (starting around Cobb's ISO 11) makes me think xvart is trying hard to get the lead wagon shifted over to Cobb, and not because he finds Cobb scummy.

Xvart- Gets attention thrown on him, makes shitty case on Chrono that fails, shifts to Cobbler who was already looking suspicous with another bad point (the whole "other recruit"). ISO 5 has him trying to chake the confidence of anyone voting him (or anyone really) that the majority of the day will be town on town.

Zdenek- You only mention 16 players in your last post, what about the 9 others (besides the CRs)?

[Battousai]

Zdenek- So you removed the bank clerk but not the banker?

[Battousai]

Zdenek- ... Why? Bank clerk and banker are very similar roles. What role do you think I would have as a bank clerk, that wouldn't be applied to a banker?

[Battousai]

I'm more confident with my vote on Ludi since my last post.

Ludi- I did not vote you for being a probable recruit. I voted you for trying to get town to focus their scumhunting on those who would be recruited (which is anti-town at best). I backed it up with the fact that you would be a decent choice for a recruit. My main point was and still is you trying to get town to focus on outguess the players, and your recent posts is you trying to get us to outguess the mod (which is at best, active lurking).

Post 344- No one cares what would have happened if one of the recruitments failed N0. It didn't happen, and it will have no impact later on.

346- You try and make DGB look scummy for refusing to answer. There is plenty of information town withholds.

[Battousai]

Herodotus- if one of the recruiters failed, then they would be dead due to the white flag rule.

[Battousai]

So if a player is not a probable N1 recruit, its is a terrible idea to vote them, no matter what they do. Do you disagree with this?

Sincerely... you don't try and vote someone for being a probable recruit, you do it because they are scummy. You may use it to back up your case, but not make it your only point. See: Just about everything I've been saying today about you.

I thought you just estbalished I was a bad choice. Why am I a good choice for a recruit then? Remember, they had to choose before they could ever see me play or post. I have no idea how you came to this conclusion.

The whole WIFOM of not selecting a well known player in order to get someone no one suspects to survive until D2. Again, not my main point, just using it to boost the case a bit.

and your recent posts is you trying to get us to outguess the mod (which is at best, active lurking).

Wrong. Mod's will try and balance this setup.

Duh... but that doesn't mean we just sit around and talk about the setup while we braid each other's hair. We got shit to do. This is just active lurking.

"Post 344- No one cares what would have happened if one of the recruitments failed N0. It didn't happen, and it will have no impact later on"

"Herodotus- if one of the recruiters failed, then they would be dead due to the white flag rule."

Seems like you do care.

It's obvious, we don't need to discuss it. No one cares what would of happened since it will not come up again (there's only 1 N0). We already know what did happen (both recruiters have a min of 1 recruit).

[Battousai]

/busy weekend

More Ludi votes please...

There are a surprising amount of people with single digit posts. I would think some of them would post more (Katsuki seems to post a lot, but not this game). Also, I think anyone who is playing against their wincon right now in hopes of being recruited, should be taken out back and shot.

[Battousai]

I don't see how Ludi is, when all he is doing is trying to outguess the CR instead of trying to find people who are acting scummy.

[Battousai]

^unless they did a quick read through to see if any of the noobs were decent enough to survive

Ninja Edit: I don't understand what your point is. Is it that Hero's vote was shitty, based on misunderstanding of 'other'?

There are a surprising amount of people with single digit posts. I would think some of them would post more (Katsuki seems to post a lot, but not this game). Also, I think anyone who is playing against their wincon right now in hopes of being recruited, should be taken out back and shot.

This post was your iso # 10

Who do you think is playing against their wincon?

Oh no, you found me out... I only have an average of 1 post a day (rounded down). I just picked 10 as a cut of as it was a rounded number (10, 20, 30, etc.)

NS -5 (confirm, simile, jokish remark, votes/participates, apology of inactivity)
Dry-fit 6 (4 before I posted) (confirm, finds cobbler scummy but unlikely recruit, apology of inactivity, catch up post/vote, asks 2 questions, spam/scum day post)
Cecily -6 (confirm, participate, participate/vote, participate, participate, activity promise)
Katsuki -7 (confirm, mechanic speculation, activity increase promise, hasn’t read/will lurk, participate, participate, explanation of lurk post)
Bunnylover- 5 (confirm, vote, role speculation, participate, participate)
Populartajo- 6 (confirm, reading, participate/vote, participate, participate, participate)
Seraphim- 6 (confirm, participate, participate, participate, participate/vote, promise of post)
RaudhrGarm- 4 (confirm, participate/vote, participate, apology of inactivity/v/la)

I know some of this is actual RL stuff and some of them don‘t post a lot to begin with, but I was putting it out there that I thought if anyone was intentionally lurking and trying to get by on that in order to get recruited (by not making waves, staying out of spotlight, not participating), or planed on or doing it in another way, that they are playing against wincon and they shouldn’t because that's dickish.

[Battousai]

^(concerning favoritism) That's what I thought too, but I don't see the point of it from scum. Why do you not like it?

[Battousai]

^
1) It is not, eliminating someone from being a suspect just because you don't think the CR would recruit them (which is why they would) is wrong.
2) "It makes no sense to shoot off with a list of 7-8 scum reads when there are only 2 recruited people in this thread" = "It makes no sense to shoot off with a list of 7-8 people who would be recruit candidates when there are only 2 recruited people in this thread" So the chances of getting scum today is low, so we should do nothing is basically what you are saying (though I know you don't mean it that way)

I'll say this one last time.... YOU CAN NOT OUTGUESS THE CR, IT IS CIRCULAR LOGIC. You say they would be more inclined to pick a powerful person who is hard to lynch and will help lead and define their cult. What if they thought you'd think that and went with a newish person or someone who gets lynched early a lot? Then you'd just eliminated the recruits and are now throwing your net on land instead of the small pond.

Please, can we lynch Ludi now???

[Battousai]

Katsuki- Feeling better yet? I expect more posts from you than this.

Tanarin- From my experience with DGB, I find it easier to tell her alignment by her interactions with her scum mates and vice versa.

[Battousai]

Flameaxe- Your last post doesn't count as a real post (as per the, I'm due for a post comment).... /yell

I'm starting to think DGB has been recruited... going to read her ISOs for substance.

Katsuki- From your posts, you've hardly commented on anything. There are plenty of posts left to comment on.

[Battousai]

^Or we lynch someone who claims unrecruitable when under little pressure

But seriously, where is that vote coming from? Seraphim is inactive, but wouldn't you want him prodded first so that the posts he has a chance to drop a scumtell/towntell/or just replace out?

[Battousai]

Battousai, what make you think DGB might be a recuit?

On Yosarian, I think the case on him is mostly weak, but the pressure is nice.

1) The way Kinetic has been defending her has made me look closer at her (though haven't gotten around to reading her ISOs yet)
2) The post where she says she has a plan if you let her live one night (normally I find that null, but not in a double cult game like this).
3) Her posts have seem spammish and her overall post count and presence seems overinflated because of it.

[Battousai]

I'm sticking with Ludi. Not convinced by xvart lynch.

[Battousai]

Vote Ludi, and I'll send you cookies in the mail or naked pictures. Your choice.

[Battousai]

Any kind of cookies you want, and the pictures will be of myself or of an ex (Since no one knows what I look like, nor my gender, nor my sexual preference, it's a bit of a gamble).

[Battousai]

We aren't getting anywhere... I didn't want to use this ability yet, but I guess I have to

Pardon: Xvart

There, now xvart can't be lynched today. Those voting him needs to switch their votes, preferable to Ludi.

[Battousai]

I don't think xvart is scum. I think the wagon would come to fruition only at deadline when people decide to jump on to at least lynch someone. Those 7 players now have to choose someone else, and with 1 less target, the chances of a better wagon dramatically increases.

[Battousai]

You can see his flip... tomorrow.

[Battousai]

But the Yos vote won't come to fruition at deadline because of the reasoning behind it.

[Battousai]

Bvoigt- Flavor is basically that I can blackmail the Governor because I helped him with some "monetary activities."

[Battousai]

Yos- You can vote him all you want, but when the hammer comes, the "governor" will intervene and he will be saved and we will be screwed out of a day phase.


That's, of course, if I was telling the truth. I wanted to add a bit of a spark since the game was getting a bit stale, even after trying to buy votes with sweet treats and naked pictures. What I got was reactions (though tbh, I didn't know what kind of reaction I would receive). The one that seemed to jump out was NS.

His kneejerk reaction was that I made xvart unlynchable for the rest of the game (which he then fos's me).

1) How is that role even balanceable? All it does is waste vig kills because anyone unlynchable must be killed, less the CR's recruit them.
2) If that role was in the game, why not vote me? I basically made someone the town found scummy enough to vote for, unlynchable. Even if I wasn't scum, you would think you wouldn't want that role in the game.

In all, I think NS was intentionally overreacting. Either to appear more townie and pissed at what I did, or because he thought xvart was recruited by the other CR and thought I just helped their faction.

unvote, vote: NS

[Battousai]

Lady- If NS what negative attention was brought to NS? I believe I was the only one who voted him. While everyone was debating whether the role existed, NS was under no heat. You can't say it brought unwanted attention if there was not really any attention brought.

Also, it would be a gamble to recruit him, since 1) he could already be recruited and thus waste a night action or both CRs could go after him, and 2) he would more likely be vigged for town would think he would be recruited as well, so it would be a waste of a recruit.

I don't see why he wouldn't try and act the way he did to feign outrage, as scum.

Also, DGB, you will not be vigged tonight, for I use my second ability:

Bribe: DGB, to NS

There, now anyone attempting to kill DGB tonight will be bribed into killing NS instead of DGB.


But seriously, NS is scum.

[Battousai]

^Not to mention she's spamming the thread like DGB...

Let's see who all voted me (or called for my death):

Lady
Zdenek

Zdenek- You say LL's case on me is reasonable... what about it? I think you are just wondering what to do since I activated my abilities. Am I acting like I've been recruited or am I just acting differently than what you'd expect?

[Battousai]

Lady- It's not scummy. It's annoying.

Fine: Lady

There, now any time you double post (minus obviously site mishap doublepost) you will overdraw your account and be fined. You will require one less vote to lynch for that day each time, up until only needing 1. This post restriction is effective until you die (but all fines will be removed the following business day).


Also, why do you have to find a way to believe that town has a chance to win? It should always be assumed in any nonbastard game that their is always a chance for town to win. You should have been more focused instead on finding scum, as that will obviously help town win.

When I get time tomorrow, I'll do an activity check on everyone.

[Battousai]

NS
Ludi
Tajo

Though, I'd be willing to put anyone under 1.3 posts in place of Tajo.


694 total, 26.6 total avg and 1.7 posts per day avg

First number is total posts (before my last post), second is posts per day

populartajo 20 1.3
Yosarian2 55 3.6
Lady Lambdadelta 44 22.0
ooba 19 1.2
bvoigt 25 1.6
DrippingGoofball 86 5.7
Fritzler 21 1.4
Nobody Special 26 1.7
Flameaxe 28 1.86
Dry-fit 10 .6
Cobblerfone 43 2.8
ThAdmiral 19 1.2
Herodotus 34 2.26
Chronopie 17 1.13
Tanarin 14 .93
Magister Ludi 46 3.06
Porochaz 37 2.4
Battousai 31 2.0
Zdenek 21 1.4
Seraphim 8 .5
Bunnylover 10 .6
springlullaby 30 2.0
xvart 22 1.4
Katsuki 18 1.2
Cecily 6 .75
RaudhrGarm 4 .2

Game Start May 22, for Lady June 4th, for Cecily ended May 30th


Those under 1 post a day:

Dry-fit
Tanarin
Seraphim
Bunnylover
RaudhrGarm

Under 1.3, but at least 1:
Tajo
Ooba
Thad
Chrono
Katsuki

Those who should be prodded:

Raudh (Did he flake out, his last post was BEFORE Cecily? To anyone who has been prodded this game: Do you have to respond in thread to avoid replacement or can you just reply back?)
Katsuki
Xvart
Spring
bunny lover

[Battousai]

xvart- You think Ludi wouldn't be recruited because he put his neck out by saying that the CRs got someone they personally know is solid and have played with that player, or are 'veterans'? Which is, you know, preemptively saying don't look at the newish people (himself).


Again I ask this. To anyone who has been prodded: Do you have to respond to a prod in thread or can you just send Flay a PM?

[Battousai]

xvart- I'm of the opinion that the vigs shouldn't blow their load D1 if they only have 1 shot. It would be better if they prolongued it as long as they could.

I don't understand the reason behind discussing if the CR recruited a past recruit from S1. It just seems like extra useless information.

[Battousai]

DGB- True. But I'd expect the vigs to be unrecruitable (I think similar to the loose cannon roles, IIRC). If they are recruitable, then they can blow their load early I guess (though it's a risk/reward thing if they wait until their are more recruits to kill).

[Battousai]

Lady- That last post is just wrong. The best chance at hitting the scum is when there is a high amount of them. There is a high chance of the vigs weakening the town tonight if they misfire.

[Battousai]

The logic's not off... just worded weirdly.

The fewer the scum, the more impact a scum vig kill will have (going into D2 with 1 recruit still). I don't agree with that should be done, but it is reasonable.

[Battousai]

@Batt: You consider chrono's calling DGB town and sheeping a vote reasonable at an early point in the game. The only problem with it is that I don't see where it happened in early game, as I said above. The sheeping of the vote happened on monday, and chrono was not voting in any votecount up until the last votecount (votecount 10).

??? When Did I say?

also

unvote, vote Katsuki

[Battousai]

I'm no liking how thAdmadral is suddenly changing up HOW he is calculating his list based on "weight". Notice how it basically made it so Chrono would HAVE to be lynched by his logic. This is AFTER people were deciding that xvart may indeed be a good lynch. Cult looking for a myslynch? I think so.

Unvote Vote Thadmral

This post is less scummy, more, well, wrong?

If thAd is a recruit, then he would be interested in ANYONE ELSE being lynched. He wouldn't try and alter the list to get someone lynched over another (unless it's an outted unrecruitable). If anything, him making a list is scummy not altering it.

[Battousai]

Vote: Tajo

Other suspects don't have support...


971 total, 35.9 avg and 2.0

Porochaz 53 2.6
DrippingGoofball 113 5.6
Andrius 2 1
Chronopie 22 1.1
Magister Ludi 60 3.0
Yosarian2 75 3.7
Katsuki 22 1.1
xvart 34 1.7
Fritzler 29 1.4
Seraphim 14 .7
ThAdmiral 43 2.1
Battousai 39 1.9
Lady Lambdadelta 70 10
Zdenek 24 1.2
bvoigt 34 1.7
Bunnylover 16 .8
Cobblerfone 53 2.6
populartajo 45 2.2
Herodotus 46 2.3
Tanarin 18 .9
Flameaxe 43 2.1
ooba 24 1.2
Nobody Special 36 1.8
springlullaby 34 1.7
Dry-fit 12 .6
Cecily 6 .7
RaudhrGarm 4 .2


Game Start May 22, for Lady June 4th, for Cecily ended May 30th, for Andrius June 10th, fir raudh ended June 9th


Those under 1 post a day:

Dry-fit
Tanarin
Seraphim
Bunnylover

1.3 and under, but at least 1:
Andrius
Chrono
Katsuki
Zdenek
ooba

[Battousai]

xvart- Tajo has the most support out of all of my suspects, so of course I'm switching to him. I don't find xvart scummy and chrono has an excuse for his inactivity, unlike Katsuki (hint).

1 post a day is borderline active lurking as I think someone should at least be able to post twice a day at least half the day (1.5/day). Others have less time so I knocked it to around 1.3. Take into account the average right now is 2 posts a day, 1.3 is lacking. You can use anything you want, as I leave all the info up there, to determine who you feel is actively lurking/lurking.


DGB- When he's cult recruited in a game where the cult recruiters are whiteflag'd treestumps, and there are no scum factions, he posts just like this But please note that since I started calculating posts per day averages, and keep track of the less posters, he has jumped from 1.2 posts a day to 2.2 (if he knows you know his meta, he probably would change once he thinks people notices).

[Battousai]

bv/lady- Votes for a lynch at deadline are scummy. Tell me why xvart is the best lynch today or I will use my multi vig kill on you two tonight. And don't think I won't, I already fined lady once.

[Battousai]

1) Tajo won't get lynched if you get unvote him...
2) We will have plenty of deaths to go on tomorrow, plus 2 new recruits and have connections/change of play to notice so it's not an excuse for information
3) Voting someone you think is town just because there is a slim chance that they might be scum is just wrong.

I'm keeping my vote on Tajo unless NS or maybe even Ludi get run up.

[Battousai]

bv- Tell me why, absent of deadline, why xvart is the best lynch choice (out of everyone). The reason being is that tomorrow, all scum have to do is say "Duh, we needed a lynch so I had to vote!"

[Battousai]

I don't understand the whole mentality this game that, we must lynch today. We have a 2/total players chance of eliminating a CR. That is very, very small. Add to the fact the lack of buddying, and associative tells, we stand worser than random chance of correctly lynching. If we mislynch, then we gain no information. None. Maybe a bit of "Confirmed town thought x was scummy for y reason," but still, I trust my own scumtells than someone who was thought scummy enough to get lynched. If we no lynch, via not reaching majority lynch, we still gain the night information of vig kills and any other town PRs. Yes, tomorrow will be similar to today, but that is regardless of whether we get a lynch through. I believe everyone should just be willing to lynch their biggest suspect or at least their second or possibly third biggest, not someone because they have the best chance of lynch. That is asinine. You are all still in the mindset of lynch > no lynch D1. That's true, in most circumstances. It's not applicable here when there is only 1 scum on each side, and we know they won't be killing town today (they need to have at least 2 scum on their side for safety), so what we gain are the town PR information and a teammate for the scum to better our chances. The only reason to lynch is if you are really do believe that the person lynched has a great, great, chance at flipping scum.

Anyone who switches to xvart (or anyone else) because they want a lynch and not because they think they have a high chance at flipping scum, will be scummy and will waste town power on themselves, because it is scummy. Not pro-town.

[Battousai]

Poro- We also have a chance at winning the lottery... You should only vote for a wagon if you believe the wagon will flip scum, not to avoid no lynch.

Yos- Since each side only has 1 scum, we lose a bit of tells. Combine that with the scum being able to manipulate us (as in, town at best has random chance at lynching scum D1), it's at a lower threshold. Also, please explain to me how not removing a town player from the game (mislynching) will make it easier for scum to fulfill their win condition than if we do mislynch?

Ludi 1161: Exaggeration or have you dropped me as a suspect, since I'm not on the xvart wagon?

As I said, vote is not moving. Tajo is scummy. Xvart/Chrono, I'm not confident in.

Seraphim- Reason for the xvart vote? Do you find him scummy? why?

Also, I wouldn't suggest making your moving plans public. The cult may be able to use their powers on the building and not just a player.

Kat 1189- That's hilarious. Thinking you can get us to lynch someone by not participating. All that joke needs is a bar or a donkey and it'll be golden.

Yos- tsk, tsk, tsk. Already distancing yourself from the lynch while helping it go through.

Since Yos has more votes than Tajo here, I'm willing to switch. I've been getting a null feel for Yos, but that post just screams scummy.

unvote, vote: Yosarian2

[Battousai]

DGB 1205- Unfortunately, one of my many, many powers is not N0/day investigation. I think the case on him is weak, and I have him down as a null tell. I'm not confortable lynching someone who has no better chance at flipping scum than random.

Yos- This is what you said in 1194 "If it's the only way to make sure we don't no-lynch, I'll move my vote over to chronopie tomorrow, but I don't like it. I really don't think he's that likely to be scum here." I must have misread that to thinking you meant xvart, but the point will stand if you switch to Chrono before deadline.

Yes, you are right about the cult thing, but my point is that you shouldn't join a wagon on someone you feel is likely to flip town or you have a null read on. Yes, there is a chance at eliminating a scum team, but if your read is null at best, the chance is severly hampered from that players POV.

unvote, vote: Ludi

Ludi has the most support of any of my suspects.

[Battousai]

Ooba- I am compromising. NS is my top pick for scum. But there's little support there. That's why I'm compromising to Ludi who is a suspect, AND has a chance to be lynched if there is enough support. I would rather there be no lynch than to lynch town. In a cult game, the more townies we kill, the weaker we become (obv). Lynching at random is completely anti-town right now (in context of against no lynching). With cults in the game, we know that any townie that is mislynched, will gain us no information for tomorrow. A lynch today is like trying to win the lottery, in the fact that pay out is huge (removal of a CR), but if we fail we loose that $5 we spent on the ticket, and baby needs a new pair of shoes right now. I'm not willing to vote someone I have a null reading on just because there is a random chance they flip recruit. The cost is pretty steep.

You basically want to lynch a null read just because you want the chance to eliminate a faction. That's wrong. Don't be surprised that I now find you scummy, unless you can give me a case on why you think Chrono is scum (link if you've said already if you want).

I'm not moving my vote unless NS/Ludi/Tajo are on the block or I find someone who is scummy from now till deadline. I don't care what any of you all say. Voting someone who you have a null read on is anti-town as hell right now.

[Battousai]

Yos- Are you so used to using some words that you forget the meaning? How is no lynch scummy? Your entire case against no lynch is that a lynch is beneficial for the town because it can remove a scum faction, but if what I was doing was scummy then I'd be helping my scum faction. If I was scum, then I would want a lynch as long as it wasn't myself. You may call it anti-town, and I will disagree with you. I think it is the most pro-town thing to do in this scenerio. I also like how you try and claim that a no lynch would result in a repeat of today. You forget that town HAS to have some night action to remove recruits (aka vigs) or the town has no chance at winning? Hell, you even have chrono as probably flipping town, yet you want him dead (though some credit to the fact that you are next on the wagon if it fails). That's anti-town.

[Battousai]

Ludi 1313- Have you been reading closely to what I've been saying? I said no lynch

over

lynching someone you feel is null

in

a cult game

on

D1.

ThAd 1324- Please tell me, in those games you looked up, how many of them was it known that there were no scum and only cult? 0? That's what I thought... Also odd doesn't mean cult recruit. It just means different. Are you going to take a stand on me one way or another, or are you going to keep being wishy-washy? If wishy-washy then move on to someone you feel is scum.


Yos 1331- Hmm. Didn't think about the whole, if we didn't lynch x yesterday we'd lynch him today. Though I disagree with the whole one day closer to losing (a mislynch pushed us, what, a day and a half closer?). Though I doubt half the town would be trying to lynch chrono because SOME people (like yourself) didn't find him all that scummy and only voted him for a lynch, which I find scummy ("why did you vote chrono" "to avoid a no lynch" -null tell which helps scum mislynch and get away with it). I don't agree with no lynching helping scum. The more townies alive, hurts scum (though admittedly, I'm not really as sure in a cult game as much as I'm sure about it in a normal game).

Vote:ooba

for post 1325

You thought it was Kinetic. Ok. Tell me how you thought Kinetic tracked someone yesterday. His "ability" could be cop, role cop, watcher, cult specific/game specific role.

[Battousai]

That still doesn't make sense

"I know one of abr's recruits due to my ability"
"Tell me who, not your ability"

That doesn't imply track.

[Battousai]

Forgot to do this…

D1 Activity:

bvoigt 43 1.7
Magister Ludi 71 2.9
DrippingGoofball 132 5.5
Yosarian2 88 3.6
ooba 36 1.5
Fritzler 34 1.4
Battousai 49 2.0
Cobblerfone 56 2.3
populartajo 61 2.5
Katsuki 27 1.1
Herodotus 52 2.1
ThAdmiral 50 2.0
Seraphim 17 .7
Nobody Special 40 1.6
Chronopie 27 1.1
Andrius 19 3.8
Porochaz 62 2.5
Lady Lambdadelta 81 7.3
xvart 54 2.2
Flameaxe 48 2.0
Bunnylover 18 .7
Zdenek 27 1.1
Tanarin 19 .7
springlullaby 35 1.4

Total posts: 1146
Avg: 47.7
Posts per day avg: 2.2

Game Start May 22, for Lady June 4th, for Andrius June 10th, ended June 15th. 24 days total, 11 days total, 5 days total

Below 1 posts per day:
Tanarin
Bunnylover
Seraphim

Between 1.3 and 1 posts per day:
Zdenek
Katsuki

Accidentally left Chrono on, but removing him now would make me redo all the averages.

Still surprised at the Katsuki average. Normal playstyle that I've seen comes off as pretty talkative.
Reading Bunnylover's posts, it seems he/she doesn't know how to play cult games like this- I really don't know why he/she joined.

I'll post more in a bit, got plans I gotta get ready for.

[Battousai]

Thad-

1) Which is my point. [Putting forth something and saying it doesn't imply anything] is like pushing the spotlight on me, without putting forth a case in which you believe I am scum (your vote on me is, I agree with the wagon, which is just Ludi voting for reasons for yesterday)

2) Again, that's wishy-washy. Scummy is indictive, well scum and stupid is indictive of town.

I still believe your vote on me is very weak. You give no reasons except you agree with the wagon (what wagon, and what parts of it, spelled out, do you agree with?). I also believe that you've been doing this all game, IIRC. You don't really take too many stands. The whole top 3 scum list thing made you look like you are contributing, but you actually weren't (and were called out on it by Tajo? I believe).

I want you to start making stands on why people are scummy. Start with me if you must, but I need more from you.

Also, I finished my last thought on Katsuki. I looked at the first game I see Katsuki in (on going, but meta search will turn it up). The game has been 9 rl days and he has 42 posts (4.6 posts per day). He has not been limited, but has selectively avoiding this game in favor of at least one other.

FoS: Katsuki

Unvote: Ooba

Vote: ThAdmiral

[Battousai]

DGB- At least ABR has the good sense not to taunt you while he is in throttling range

ThAd- What actions do you think were scummy? Just being vague like that makes it so I can’t defend myself.

Since I’m going down this route, might as well go all the way and do a D1 ISO reading of ThAd.

0- confirm
1- fluff “who would I recruit”

2- soft defense of Ludi
3- harder defense of Ludi

4- Fluff

5- Votes me for making “wild claims” on Ludi

6- Wants people not to ignore recruiters
7-8- fluff

9- votes xvart as he is as good as any

10- reason for voting xvart is because he has most votes
11- fluff/recruitment WIFOM (abr could do this, that, or act illogically)
12-14- fluff
15- fluff/ ”if I was recruited I’d be active”
16- defends Dgb being recruitable D1/ cobbler too scummy to be scum
17- fluff/ repeat cobbler ISO 16
18- defends cobbler- too scummy to be scum, too VI to be recruited/fluff
19-20 top 3 list
21-22 top 3 list fluff
23- fluff
24-30- top 3 list fluff
31-33- fluff
34- defends RG’s inactivity as sitewide
35-38 top 3 list fluff

39- defends list/fluff/defends shitty xvart wagon (he’s a sexy recruit choice)/says list is for him, but is still voting xvart

40- fluff

41- has to strong convictions on anyone, says cult is too WIFOMy to pin down

42-43- fluff
44- fluff/defends lynching

45- Is upset xvart is waiting until now to defend himself, now that there is little other options, though claims he doesn't understand what his defense is

46-47- fluff

48- defends not unvoting xvart earlier

49- fluff

ISO 2,3,5 reads to me that you thought Ludi was town, therefore I was scum for attacking her

ISO 9, 39, 45, 48 is basically you voted xvart for being the leading wagon, then changed it later to being a decent recruit choice, then when the vote count was at 7 xvart, 6 yos, 4 chrono you decide that xvart is defending himself. You go from the leading wagon to the smallest wagon that has a chance to go to lynch (you can't be called out for wasted vote). That effectively put you early enough to be near the middle of a wagon, get off a leading wagon near deadline, and still appear to be active even though all your posts at the time were fluff

ISO 41, along with votes on chrono and xvart is just that you wanted too lynch anyone, regardless of whether you thought they were scum. I think that is scummy as hell. Apparently I live alone in an alternate universe in which scum do not want to mislynch (must resist urge to get in debate on this. Must save for postgame).

At the beginning of the game (the less dangerous time) you start off just defending people, then you post fluff and recruit WIFOM and then defend people again, then wind up just posting fluff on your top 3 list and just plain fluff till deadline.

[Battousai]

Forgot to add that flay said players would be killed before they are recruited in the action resolution. Therefore we don't know if the vig prevented a recruitment or not (but at least we can take solace in the fact that we won't change alignment and then die in the same night).

[Battousai]

Kinetic has distracted us! Let's go back to what we were talking about....


ThAd 1462- I stand by that pardon gambit. Not only did it help me get a decent read on a player (NS), but I don't see how harmful it is since the wagon on xvart was based on out of game characteristics of the player and not by what xvart did in this game. And to the second point, I did not want a no lynch yesterday. Rather I wanted everyone to be voting someone they actually thought was scum. There is a difference between that and trying to get a no lynch.

Andrius, you awake yet? The day has started.

Katsuki- I recall you stating you wanted us to lynch quickly in order to use the bankable deadlines. Tell me how your active lurking is helping accomplish that.

[Battousai]

ThAd 1516- Not in this setup. I believe that if you think someone is at best null, that you shouldn't be willing to lynch them. A mislynch is even more detrimental (especially D1 when a mislynch will give us no information unlike other following days).

Andrius 1545- What, no breakfast?

I'd be happy with a Ludi lynch yesterday, though others have bumped the slot down on my scum list. I think Cobbler is lying scum, so I'm happy with that lynch. One way or another he'll die this game anyways.

VOTE: Cobbler

[Battousai]

Ludi- How is someone lying about their night action less likely to be scum than DGB? This just boggles my mind why you wouldn't come right out at Seraphim when you knew he was lying.

Also, you case that cobbler is town is laughable. He's too scummy to be scum basically. The fact that you seem not to take into consideration that he was scum and made a mistake is questionable, especially coupled with the whole going after DGB instead of someone you would "know" is lying.

[Battousai]

To whoever asked, I am trying to get as little information as possible from Seraphim and piece together my own role with what flay is telling me (note, he is being insanely cryptic) because its rather complex if Seraphim is in fact lying and if he is and I claim I want it to be a for sure scum lynch.

So you want Seraphim to tell you as little as possible? That makes no sense. You should want as much as possible in order to trap him into a lie. Right now it just looks like you are backtracking a bit in order to give an excuse to why seraphim is town when you get him lynched for lying.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ludi

You know what would be smart? A mass claim. That way you guys will KNOW all the power roles, and instead of using them to help you, be so paranoid and kill them all off .

That's not a bad idea. I'll start. I'm unrecruitable, un-night killable, and unlynchable.

[Battousai]

^Or, you know, not.

[Battousai]

Would you like a pillow for that fence you are sitting on?

[Battousai]

^Um. No? ML claimed that Seraphim is lying dirtbag, but has taken it back due to unclearedness. If ML is town, then cult already know she is an investigative role. That's all the information they really need to determine if the slot is a threat or not. We, on the otherhand, do not have enough information to determine if she is lying cult or town or if seraphim is cult or town. What she claims she found out can help us, whereas it is already too late to not help the cult.

[Battousai]

I don't, so just stop referencing Succession 1 unless you plan on clarifying your position.

[Battousai]

Ooba- I meant don't bring up Succession 1 to back up your claim without referencing roles or quotes or something in the game and not the game in general

Due to guilty result,

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Poro

[Battousai]

Or if you are correct and he is a recruit, you may still be vig'd to prevent the cult from recruiting you tonight.

BAM! I just made you unrecruitable tonight through WIFOM.

[Battousai]

I know why I would, will rather wait for him to explain it himself.

Also, the way you mentioned Succession 1 is fine, as you mention what happened in it and not just "remember Succession 1?"

[Battousai]

Only thing left to say is by Ludi. No hammer until Ludi full claims on Seraphim.

UNVOTE: poro

until then

[Battousai]

Ludi 1793- Screw that. I'm not going to fucking roll over for the cult because we lost a few townies. Mass claim... really? Why would you even consider that? Doing that would have only a great positive impact for the cult because 1) obv town due to role today, cult tomorrow and 2) Cult get to pick which roles they want and kill who they can't get. The only benefit town would even see would be on the day of the mass claim, and even then it would be almost worthless due to the amount of players still alive.

Lady 1794- Alien vs Jailkeeper. Alien is a common version of the jailkeeper that prevents others from using actions on the PR. A plain JK only blocks the person from using their ability and prevents them from dying.

Ludi- You don't have to keep using your ability on Yos. Namely because 1) he is already recruited, 2) your ability doesn't block recruitment, 3) The WIFOM of saying that you will continue blocking him should keep him safe from future recruitment. Take your pick.

Vote: Katsuki

FoS: Seraphim

Also, softclaim/will not explain further: cobbler's chance at being a recruit is low.

[Battousai]

bv, flameaxe- So, why are you still voting cobbler?

[Battousai]

Also, softclaim/will not explain further: cobbler's chance at being a recruit is low.

I won't explain further, but you just don't believe what I'm saying or are you just trying to waste your vote for the day so you can late wagon at deadline to avoid suspicion?

Yes, I know that last part was pointed, but I'm in a pointy mood today.

[Battousai]

Cobbler wagon has slim to no chance of coming to fruition today, so how about this

bv, flame- If I dayvig cobbler and he flips as town aligned, and the day doesn't end right there, who would you think is scum?

[Battousai]

Bv and flame... They haven't done anything that has made me think they are town, but they aren't scummy enough to warrant voting them over Katsuki/Seraphim. As I said, that last part was pointed.

Seraphim- Yos declines giving his location, and most of the town is thinking you are lying, backtracking, or hurt town with your claim. I believe you should claim first as Yos is more likely town than you, as seems the consensus of the town. And since you have posted elsewhere (including multiple games) since he told you no, I'm more inclined to believe you are trying to ride out the backfall by hiding right now.




Looking at last night, there seems to be 2 different killing roles due to different killing flavor. One person has a gun and killed thAd while the other killed Andrius and Inhim melee style. I think there might be a 3rd party group who killed thAd as gun doesn't seem vig, more SK/mafia. Though poro was obv recruit and not mafia.

[Battousai]

1) So those two other games you posted in are games you are modding?
2) below
3) Yes, lets out another PR in ooba...

Seraphim wants Yos to claim his target in 1321
ML first mentions Yos in 1322
Sera claims he targeted Yos in 1570
Sera claims he received no result in 1796
Claims he tracked ML and received a location in 1939

But 1939 contradicts 1570 where Seraphim says he targeted Yos

A. Targeted Yos last night and
B. Found out information

I can confirm A and mostly confirm B. There is the off-chance I was roleblocked but I don't think I was.

So, Seraphim is lying scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Seraphim

[Battousai]

Review edit: Got nights mixed up

UNVOTE:

for now.

[Battousai]

Sera- You claim tracker. Normal tracker gets that x visited y or x did nothing. If x couldn't be found, why would you assume x visited someone? It's not like you targetted x, but x was out targeting y so he couldn't be tracked.

revoting previous suspect:

VOTE: Katsuki

[Battousai]

Then why did you assume Yos was out targetting someone? You basically outted him and yourself as PRs for no reason.


Also ML: You do not know if you block other people from using abilities on Yos, so you can't really claim in that aspect that it is for certain that Sera would have to be blocked.

[Battousai]

UNVOTE: Katsuki

VOTE: Sera

[Battousai]

So, you thought Yos targetted someone... you don't even consider Yos was a PR using his ability? I'm voting you because no way you'd do something so stupid.

[Battousai]

If you are town, I'd much prefer to lynch Tanarin for his last post...

But Katsuki also needs to be lynched....

DGB- Care to explain why your STDs scare off the recruiters? As that seems to be the straw they are grasping.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Katsuki

[Battousai]

in case last post didn't count:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Katsuki

[Battousai]

Bunnylover- Why are you playing so differently from the previous game I've been with you? Your play is starting to remind me of when you were an SK in that one game I forgot the name of .

[Battousai]

Aww... I'm gone 2 days and no one notices.

Sorry about that, internet went out the day before my trip to NC and I just got here about an hour ago.

Kat is still scum.

[Battousai]

Show me where tanarin has been under so much fire that he couldn't be recruited. All I can recall from D1 is that he was a bit of a lurker.

[Battousai]

That's L-1 so...


UNVOTE:
VOTE: Katsuki

See you all in the morning.

[Battousai]

Who's recruit were you, Katsuki?

[Battousai]

Darn! My ruse is undone.

[Battousai]

Flame- Katsuki vote is based on early lurking (even after claimed sickness was over, said he didn't see anything to comment on). His fluff posts, the fact that he didn't really take a stand (by stand I mean something that the person has to defend without a built in excuse, such as voting for a townie to avoid a no lynch) until really D2.

DGB- Stop calling Katsuki a dude, unless you saw his junk at GoofBash. With modern medicine and the amount of hormones in just about everything, it's not so cut and dry.

[Battousai]

Hero- You say you are hesitant to share reads or argue over alignments because the cult could use that information... do you not think we would like that information as well?

[Battousai]

Also:



If only I was good at photo editing, I could change the terms for mafia purposes.

[Battousai]

Well, if hero got a xxx is recruited he would claim it, so the only other thing is if xxx isn't recruited. I see nothing wrong with him actually scumhunting and giving scumreads, as to scum that would mean that 1) that person wasn't targeted and that information is worthless 2) that hero finds that person scummy, again worthless.

Also the fact that you are calling scum informed and us uninformed, yet want to halt information to the uninformed is weird.

[Battousai]

But how is him telling us who he thinks is scum actually worthwhile information to them?

[Battousai]

He explained his inactivity as being hesitant to provide his reads and argue alignment as to not give the CRs information, which I find just wrong. I can see not giving your town reads, but I can't see not giving your scum reads.

[Battousai]

Hero- so your plan is to lurk until you get a guilty?

I think the reason for the delay is that if Katsuki is town, then anything he tells us before he dies (especially role information) can be used to our benefit.

[Battousai]

NS- I give and I give and I give, and all you do is complain. Go make your own sammich, dammit!

[Battousai]

You would think so, but with lurkers they should be doing a lot of stuff and aren't.

[Battousai]

Rushed post is unclear, it seems.

You would think Katsuki (a pretty big lurker for most of the game) would claim if he had pertinent information in case of being quick hammered and dieing with it, but since he's a lurker he might not do that (if he is town then he isn't likely to do things he should do if he can't even post consistently).

[Battousai]

Which is why lurking at L-1 is pro-scum. The impatient ones would either hammer or more likely, start bringing up past things that happened and shifting the spotlight away from the wagon.

[Battousai]

xvart, please tell me how him not making a v/la announcement in his other games an issue here? His last post on site was him posting v/la here... so it seems you are saying Katsuki is making up his v/la on that basis and not the fact that he hasn't posted.

[Battousai]

I wouldn't claim either, if I didn't have time to defend myself and to elaborate on the claim as needed.

[Battousai]

To whoever- I do not have any flavor information from working with Spring to determine why Spring died.

I'm going to go read the Katsuki wagon. My guess is that there were cult on that wagon, however, I also believe they might have expected Katsuki to flip town. If anyone shows a lot of hesitance on that wagon, I'll start suspecting them.

[Battousai]

1) You assume I'm not there because I'm doing something, why are you trying to out a PR?
2) It's kind of hard to kill someone if they are not all alone, so I couldn't have been there, flavor-wise.

[Battousai]

A map works by looking at where you are, where you want to go, and finding the best route there. In this game it is just for moving (though I bet some roles can target buildings, so I don't think it is advisable to try and organize a slumber party).

Looking back, I narrowed scum down to... half the alive players

LL (wanted Spring to be hanged), didn't seem to be pushing hard enough to get Spring lynched over Katsuki
Flameaxe unvoted right near hammer for Katsuki's claim (which he admits are underwhelming)

These people didn't post near deadline OR posted but did not try and push Katsuki:

Bunny Lover
Bvoigt
ConSpiracy
Herodotus
Ooba
Seraphim
Darox
Zdenek

Ooba- as I said, you are PR hunting. Even if I say I was out, that would be claiming a PR. If I say I was there, then I'd be telling you that the PR pool is down to x players. 20 bucks says cult is trying to find whoever is doing the killing right now, as they can now rule out ABR.

VOTE: Ooba

[Battousai]

NS- How do you propose they find the town killing roles, blind chance? They have to try and figure out who it is first before they try and recruit them...

DGB- I don't understand what you just said. Katsuki has less partners alive that are wagon-shy? I'm not looking for Katsuki's partners because there are none left. I'm looking for cult scum who wanted to distance themselves from a mislynch.

P-EDIT:

LLD- I'm under the assumption that at least one recruit that Katsuki was town and wanted to avoid being associated with a mislynch.

DGB- Yes, that list is the total list, which then can be trimmed down by town reads/likeliness of being a recruit.

[Battousai]

Last post, I messed up. I meant the last point to be addressed to Cobbler, not DGB.

Ooba- Hmm... I think I'll decline to answer you on the grounds of not seeing a town advantage. Also, I like how you throw out all subtlety once you get called out on PR hunting.

[Battousai]

Ooba-

1) If I targeted SL, wouldn't you have seen me at the bank as well as SL?
2) SL was killed last night, and was a suspect of many people yesterday (if you ignore Katsuki). Why would scum kill Spring? You obviously would have to think that whoever killed Spring is scum otherwise you'd be trying to out a vig.

I'm still not answering if I targeted anyone last night. You have nothing that says I was there and answering one way or another helps scum. If you are town, congrats on outting yourself for no reason.

Bv- Just because they were on the wagon, it doesn't mean anything, really. I would actually expect them to be on the wagon. It pushes it to lynch, then at the same time, they ignore it so they aren't really in people's mind for when they think who pushed for the mislynch.

[Battousai]

Bv- Where does it say the killer robbed the bank? Or do you blindly believe what anyone says? According to the rules, whoever posts the 2500 posts gets to be unrecruitable the following night.

[Battousai]

"Bank officials were quick to assure residents that their deposits are safe"

[Battousai]

1) The term, even if, implies that the FDIC did not cover it.
2) Why would Flay even put that in there if he thought it would directly lead to hitting scum? That's mod biasness (or something similar). The whole thing is flavor for why a bank manager was killed.
3) There is nothing in the game that has even lead to the belief that there is an anti-town killing faction (who decides to kill SL, of all people)
4) I'm still not going to claim as to whether or not I went and visited anyone last night. Not until I get a consensus from the people who I feel are likely town want me to.
5) I still don't understand why Ooba is so intent in trying to lynch a killing role. Correct me if I'm wrong, but town's chances of winning is drastically, drastically lowered without any killing role in the game. Our only chance at winning then is if we correctly lynch every recruit AND Kinetic starts hitting a string of unrecruitables.

[Battousai]

I actually am under the impression that Kinetic is having people kill now that ABR is out of the picture...I think that it's likely that Batt is scum, not a killing role.

I also find it likely that Kinetic tried to recruit springlullaby earlier in the game and had her killed.

Who said I even have a role? Ooba's case against me is that I won't claim and because he thinks I wasn't at the Merchant building due to Flay's flavor opening today.

here are two sample Role PMs:[/anchor]

Sample Townie

You're

Marion Trozollo

, organizer and visionary behind the River Quay Merchants Association that is revitalizing the riverfront district. After decades of neglect, your ideas and investments have brought in craftspeople, restauranteurs, and artists in numbers that surprise even you! However it has also led to the involvement of some unscrupulous characters; mobsters and petty thugs, go-go dancers and drug users. The disorder and implicit violence of these people threatens to bring your fragile recovery crashing down around your ears. Best to use your influence and intelligence to try to make sure they go somewhere else.

Win Condition:

You win when the gangsters and major criminals are dead, convicted, or neutralized.

Powers:

• Visit
  _{(active, night)}: You may choose to 'visit' any named/numbered location on the map at Night if you wish, but you have no action or influence there. You may not converse with anyone at Night unless told otherwise.
  (in an ordinary game, you would be considered a

  Townie

  )

Home Base:

You start and end most evenings at the River Quay Merchant's Association, #22 on the map.

Note the bold (minus home base, as I couldn't figure out how to unbold that section). There are many reasons why I may or may not have been at the bank. And for fuck's sake, why would Flay put in his flavor that "Battousai witnessed the whole thing, but won't tell police who did it." It's obvious that Flay would have SL be alone.

As I said, I won't claim until I believe it is in town's best interest (or if the majority of the people I feel are town, agree).

[Battousai]

Hmm... looking back, it appears I must have misread unvote, vote kat as just unvote kat. So, I'll strike you from that list.

[Battousai]

Yos- He hasn't linked me there, he is only assuming I wasn't there because the mod flavor said SL was alone. Which makes sense as how could anyone kill SL if SL wasn't alone.

[Battousai]

How would I know what went on at the home location? I'm not linked to SL. And if I did know something, why would I not claim it? This is all just you being pointless, claiming a PR and trying to out or trim the pool of other roles for no damn reason.

[Battousai]

There is no helpful information to be gained from me saying whether or not I was there. If there is helpful information, don't you think I would claim it? So you are stuck with me being scum or there not being any useful information. All you've tried to do is out me as a PR. ftfy. I'm not claiming, so you can drop it.

[Battousai]

There is no helpful information to be gained from me saying whether or not I was there. If there is helpful information, don't you think I would claim it? So you are stuck with me being scum or there not being any useful information. All you've tried to do is out me as a PR. ftfy. I'm not claiming, so you can drop it.

Its a simple yes or no question, just answer it o.o.

Since when did you replace in...

I'm waiting on hero to claim result.

[Battousai]

No, I was wanting you to do a full claim on your bv result, which was purposely misleading...

Actually, now that we are down to 1 CR, I don't see why not to give us all your results.

[Battousai]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Sera


The whole interaction between ML/Yos/Sera previously made it seem like something was off. Combined with today of Sera trying to get information out of DGB, like Yos only to drop it because:

I'm going to drop it because any meaningful results would require her to claim her target.

But he never told DGB not to claim in between, so I believe he was just trying to get information out of DGB and when DGB didn't respond with an answer, he forgot about it until called out on it.

[Battousai]

CS- You didn't mention Zdenek in your (likely d1 recruit). Why not? His first few posts in the game were scummy (voting someone based on rolename, making a list of likely recruits based on rolename, then attacking xvart for thinking bv was scum as bv is too new a join date to be recruited). Then the whole thing where he has the least amount of posts than anyone else still alive (and some dead) leads me to believe he isn't the most active player and would be a decent candidate for your list.

[Battousai]

You think a cult recruit wouldn't vote someone based on their rolename?

[Battousai]

Con- that quote is about my fake protect on xvart, I don't see the point in that... point.

Cobbler- Your last post made me realize something. Who mentioned there being a scum group in this game? Kinetic. What proof do we have that there is one? None. I find it suspect that Ooba/Sera both believed that I was scum (not cult). It's like they are either listening to Cult (stupid), or trying to push the idea further (Kinetic recruit).

[Battousai]

CS- "This piece of gold shows that you weren't trying to bust

Cobblerfone

in his unrecruitable fake-claim. Because if you were, you wouldn't have asked this flavour as you couldn't do anything with it. I see no town reason to have all the flavour in the open." In reply to bv wanting flavor on XVART.

[Battousai]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Darox


I was willing to overlook the game change to disinterest due to the replacement, but I do not believe his recent claim. Tajo's point about why Tan would target to PROTECT someone he found suspicious makes me trust it less. Also the fact that the role is essentially "Jailkeeper that sometimes doesn't work" makes the role too weak (along with giving him a built in excuse for why someone successfully targetting DGB/hero wasn't stopped).

[Battousai]

I said jailkeeper but meant alien. I get those switched. You are basically an Alien that sometimes works (at least alien is closest to that role). Though further reading it seems you have clarified it to a doc since you don't negate other abilities.

I still don't see why Tan would protect DGB, who he suspected. I think you slipped up there when faking results.

[Battousai]

Just spell it out, otherwise I don't know what your defense is. Only thing I saw is that DGB asked for cult doc. You did not claim cult doc, so I really don't see anything that proves why Tan would protect DGB N1.

[Battousai]

And post 2787 is just lulzy. Why would town do that? They wouldn't, that is why we think you are fucking scum not town fakeclaiming for the fun of it.

[Battousai]

Personally, I think he was intentionally vague when claiming and that is why he is scum. I also think he embellished his role a bit to appear stronger so town would keep him around.

[Battousai]

I was trying to think who would be a good recruit for N3. Batt would have been my choice so watched the bank.

Really? You never mention it beforehand. In fact, you said I wasn't recruited (to some degree) D1 and D2. What happened D3 to make you think I would be a good recruit?


I'm not in favor of a massclaim today. At max, this is 10:5. This is unlikely to me, as the way kinetic tried to get DGB lynched seemed to make me think he thought DGB was recruited by ABR (thus he failed a recruit on her). Then there is hero. I don't know anyone, as CR, who wouldn't take the chance and recruit a claimed cop (especially if the CR is unkillable). But Hero was protected, and therefore, would soak up a recruitment. I think it is more probable that we are looking at 12:3 right now or at the least 11:4. I'd say mass claim tomorrow, depending on night kills.


Now, that DGB flipped town, that means Tajo has been pushing for the same town lynch almost the entire game. I'm not sure if he is scum because of it, as I don't see scum pushing a mislynch like that and getting extra heat for continuously pushing it.

I don't really like bunnylover all that much, as he lurked throughout the game, up until yesterday I believe. Now, I'm happy he decided to participate, but it just seems odd that he'd change from lurker on a dime in the middle of the game without some sort of reason.

There's ooba, who played horribly yesterday. Tried to out a potential PR based on DEATH FUCKING SCENE FLAVOR of a robbery. Here's a tip. Flavor like that is to make the game more interesting, not give town more information on what happened. Hell, we have corrupt cops. They could of pocketed the money when they went to investigate. Not sure if this is scum play or not, but based on Sera agreeing with Ooba, I can see it coming from misguided town.

Cobbler, Hero, Yos are all pretty much confirmed town (only way for hero/yos to be scum is if ML is scum)

Everyone else is a bit suspicious BECAUSE they don't really stick out.

@Hero/Yos- who do you find scummy?

I don't really see the case on Bv, if anyone from yesterday wants to elaborate on it a bit more.

[Battousai]

But Hero was protected, and therefore, would soak up a recruitment.

He was protected from kills. Of course, chances are the cult-doc targeted him too but Darox didn't cult-protect him.

@Ludi: I'm not an "Unrecruitable Townie".

Shit. Got that mixed up then. I support massclaim now, as it's either 11:4 or 10:5

I put up what I thought were very good reasons to lynch bvoigt all in one post several posts ago in my iso.

I'm also going to have to take a look at the people who have flown under the radar since day one (xvart now, maybe a few others), as they grow more attractive as the days roll by.

I'll look at that when I get some more time.

Look at your posting style previous to DGB death and now.
A difference is noted.

This pushes it to a vote. His posting style previous was him trying to get DGB lynched. DGB died. Now he is posting differently because he isn't trying to lynch a dead player... This seems like an easy scum vote to me.

Same goes to NS.

VOTE: BunnyLover

[Battousai]

bunnylover- What is your point of reference? I find you scummy because your vote is weak, and your playstyle changed.

[Battousai]

Not to Tajo, but bunnylover is making minimal sense to me right now. Why would scum fakeclaim if they already had a role? Uh, have you played mafia before... they'd want to persuade town not to lynch them by fakeclaiming a role that is more valuable to town. Going from vt, as tajo thought, to doc/bodyguard/protects self, which one would convince town to say that "I don't think he is scum enough to risk that role right now."?

Also, when did I call ML on posting change + weak vote recently?

[Battousai]

Shouldn't we stop arging if we're mass-claiming? Some people who seem to think it's for the best.

But you don't? That's an odd statement,- "You shouldn't do something because other people think you shouldn't."

I'm not going to sit around, waiting for bv to claim, then whoever he picks, then 13 other people to claim. The game will stagnate.

[Battousai]

Well, than that's easier to answer...

Your playstyle has changed, and I've been finding you suspicious lately. Then the big thing that seperates you is that NS didn't give a reason why, whereas your reason why you are voting Tajo is utter shit, and still is continuing.

Tell me, how does someone changing their playstyle make them scum if you thought they were cult before? You basically have called him scummy for NOT acting like he did when you thought he was scum.

[Battousai]

vig

N1- inhim
N2- thad
N3- spring
N4- Seraphim


Lady lambda goes next.

[Battousai]

It's something you said that was similar in my role pm.

[Battousai]

since bv is gone until 31st apparantly, I'll answer questions on my role:

Flavor:
Longtime clerk at the bank. The bank believes money is money, which after many years of dealing with the bank and the mob dealings, combined with the recent violence, has made me want to do something about it.

Vig flavor: My secruity training has let me try some vigilantisms. I can't kill the CRs, but I may be able to hack away at their associates.

Reasons for killing:

Inhim- I didn't find scummy. However, that first night I was sure that the CR would recruit him as 1) he was a decent player, 2) he just replaced in at the end of the day (which means that he can't be held accountable for playstyle change if recruited, and would help keep the CR safe).

thAd- I found him very scummy. If you read my ISO, you can see me trying to get him lynched and failing D2 (funny thing is, that my targets that I most wanted to kill that night were Katsuki and ThAd. I basically flipped a coin on which of the two to kill.)

Spring- I found him a little suspicious D3, but what sealed his fate over my plan of killing a lurker was his end of Day 3 posts. It seemed like he was trying too hard and actually mimicing someone to appear protown.

Sera- I said I thought something with the sera/ml/Yos was hinky. Then when Sera continued his bad play with his role, I thought he was trying to get information for the scum and at the same time appear to be doing something. That, combined with him wanting me to claim yesterday on shit reasoning, made me suspect him.

Other information:
Recruitment, in the night action resolution, comes after kills. That is why ABR failed to recruit ThAd, as he was already dead when he targetted him.

[Battousai]

Flameaxe- He understood what I meant and it answered his question. As to you not seeing the connection, then just know that I paraphrased my role pm.

[Battousai]

Flameaxe- He understood what I meant and it answered his question. As to you not seeing the connection, then just know that I paraphrased my role pm.

You're still not being helpful. The fact that he understood does not help anyone but the two of you.

How is it in any way, shape, or form, helpful for me to spell out word for word what is in my role pm that made me believe that cobbler wasn't lieing about being unrecruitable at this juncture?

[Battousai]

I don't care if you can follow it or not right now. Maybe if you tried and lynch cobbler I would, but until then I'm not going to as it serves no fucking purpose.

[Battousai]

Okay, 3 ppl haven't claimed....

Flameaxe because he won't unless the other two will, and is butt hurt over me not telling him how my role pm (even though I paraphrased it) made me believe that cobbler wasn't recruited.

Yos- Is against it, because he doesn't believe we are at 5:10 (which is the day before lylo). There is a possibility that it is at 5:10. Play safe!

Conspiracy- Is against it, but has used it to support a bv lynch...

I think there is 1 scum among these 3. Yos has been jailkept since N1 so he's out. So 50/50 shot at scum between conspiracy and Flameaxe. The reason I believe there is scum here, as I believe in the counterpoint theory. Whenever there is a major point/stance taken, there is always 1 scum there who wants to be on the otherside as to 1) not agree with his/her partners 2) Not be linked to the outcome. Right now, I believe that is flameaxe, reason being is that he is the most wishywashy person of the two on the massclaim stance. He wants it, but only if everyone wants it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flameaxe

[Battousai]

Does anyone need me to Officially Claim? I think y'all know who/what I am already anyway.

I don't "know", but I have an idea.

Yes, and you need to tell us who you did any ability on. You hinted at vig, but not knowing if scum killed or recruited is important to determining their size and endgame strategy.

[Battousai]

ML- I hit scum, er, someone about to become scum so it sorta counts. Why do you say we need help, when town was only able to lynch one cult (w/o investigation). Do you disagree with anyone being scum?

NS- Why did you kill Andrius?

Bv- I've been trying to kill bunny, but someone always does something that puts them ahead.

[Battousai]

Bunnylover- Reading comprehesion... I tried to kill you, but other people were scummier. That means that I've been planning on killing you, but someone else always does something scummy to be put ahead of you on my scumlist. And yes, I can target a location or person, but the chances of successfully killing someone in a building is not as high as targetting them (probably due to the visit ability). That is why I said early not to discuss what rooms people are going to for meeting. If I could target a building, cult may have a power that targets buildings as well.

ML- I'm 1/4, Town is 1/3 (removed poro for being investigated and not scumhunted). I also don't want to follow directions by scum, therefore will not be cooperative with having town decide who I kill. Also, you notice xvart's deviation in play, but what about bunnylover? He goes from lurker who doesn't participate to just about posting daily. Does that not qualify as a deviation in play?

[Battousai]

Hi, Amrun.

@LLD: Did you ever mention the flavor name for your cult doc action?

Amrun, there is a treestumped cult recruiter still alive, no mafia in this game, sure, claim your targets.

I think I recall someone, Somewhere (useful, huh? ) saying there

may

be a non-culted mafia. It was much earlier; possibly D2 or before. (Anyone else remember this?) [Note: Flameaxe was questioning this D2.]

That was Kinetic, I believe.

Kinetic wasn't the FIRST to suggest extra faction (I believe bunnylover/ML, may have said something about extra factions D1), but he was the first to say outright that there is a mafia faction (and backs that up with saying it balances the game more).

[Battousai]

Not that I'm in favor of it, but if we're lynching a claimed vig, Battousai is a better lynch than NS. Stories like his killing Andrius over a grudge come from town. Battousai's killings look more like ones that scum would do and try to pass off later as pro-town.

Wow, lol. I killed people in a pro-town manor, therefore I am scum. NS didn't so that makes him town...


I also disagree with scum not fakeclaiming Vanilla. I mean, with so many PRs out there, it be easier than normal to be caught out in a lie about where you visited and what you did.

[Battousai]

Not that I'm in favor of it, but if we're lynching a claimed vig, Battousai is a better lynch than NS. Stories like his killing Andrius over a grudge come from town. Battousai's killings look more like ones that scum would do and try to pass off later as pro-town.

Wow, lol. I killed people in a pro-town manor, therefore I am scum. NS didn't so that makes him town...


I also disagree with scum not fakeclaiming Vanilla. I mean, with so many PRs out there, it be easier than normal to be caught out in a lie about where you visited and what you did.

This is a scummy post. Battousai reacts to the fact that I'd be more suspicious of him than NS, by misinterpreting my post, and completely missing the point of my argument about why he appears scummier than NS. His second point is also terrible because even people claiming vanilla could be caught in a lie about where they went and what they did, unless they were recruited pre-game.

Tell me your point then. All I got out of it was that NS did something anti-town and I did something that was pro-town. I really don't see the difference.

[Battousai]

Tell me your point then. All I got out of it was that NS did something anti-town and I did something that was pro-town. I really don't see the difference.

No. NS killed Andrius for a stupid reason that scum would be loathe to give; whereas you killed off people who could justify killing off. I'm not arguing that either of you are scum (or pro-town for that matter) for what you've done, but I can hardly see scum NS explaining his actions in that way.

Assume I am your cult master, and told you to kill Andrius. Now, days later it is time for mass claim. Tell me how scum would explain that kill to town.

[Battousai]

Zdenek- Don't give me that BS. Tell me how you would have gotten away with viging Andrius right now. What did Andrius post that made him look like scum?

[Battousai]

Zdenek- Don't give me that BS. Tell me how you would have gotten away with viging Andrius right now. What did Andrius post that made him look like scum?

That is not what I am arguing. I just don't think that scum would use the excuse for vigging someone that Nobody Special did. If you think scum would use that reason, show me an example of it.

Couldn't think of a reason, I see. So, how about if he said it was from an earlier grudge? It's not the best reason, but it is more plausible than trying to call Andrius scum.

So, that pretty much confirms my suspicion on Zdenek. You made a throwaway comment, without having anything really to back it up. That is scum appearing to participate and scumhunt, when in actuallity is just actively lurk.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

[Battousai]

Zdenek- Don't give me that BS. Tell me how you would have gotten away with viging Andrius right now. What did Andrius post that made him look like scum?

That is not what I am arguing. I just don't think that scum would use the excuse for vigging someone that Nobody Special did. If you think scum would use that reason, show me an example of it.

Couldn't think of a reason, I see. So, how about if he said it was from an earlier grudge? It's not the best reason, but it is more plausible than trying to call Andrius scum.

So, that pretty much confirms my suspicion on Zdenek. You made a throwaway comment, without having anything really to back it up. That is scum appearing to participate and scumhunt, when in actuallity is just actively lurk.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Zdenek

Stating that you wouldn't support a lynch (in this case, that I wouldn't support NS's lynch) is not making a throwaway comment.

When NS isn't under suspicion, not even close to a lynch, it becomes a throwaway comment.

[Battousai]

How 'bout this. I'll tell you who I plan on killing and NS pick from outside that tonight. Then tomorrow night he picks a list and I get what's left?

My list is:
Flameaxe
Bunnylover
Ooba
xvart
LLD

[Battousai]

Shit. I was pretty confident Ooba was scum. Last night I couldn't decide between bunnylover and Ooba. I actually wrote a post in my notes to get Ooba or bunnylover lynched today to see if my case would be able to convince the rest of you that one of them was scum:

Ooba has been shady as hell. He targetted the bank and saw 2 employees walking in together and tried to out me because the mod posted that the place was robbed (hello flavor is just fucking flavor. We also have corrupt cops, but we aren't lynching them just for that either)? Fucking scumbag. He was just trying to get the vig lynched after getting that result as in Succ 1, vigs were unrecruitable and did not want to wait and reveal it to the cult so as to not allow me to get another shot off and it was his best chance at getting support for the mislynch if he framed me as third party (which we don't even know exists...) SK/scum. Then yesterday he claimed he was actually gambiting with his role. He could very well be lying to make himself look stronger in the massclaim. The haziness of the result seemed to match up with Sera who flipped town (and is probably why he was willing to believe him in the first place). I also don't like that he was trying to waste cult doc protection last night on himself, when it should have been given to someone who isn't scummy as hell and a likely cult target.

But at the last minute I sent in my result to kill Ooba because I felt that the collective town (with scum influence) would be too hesitant to lynch a watcher. Plus bunnylover as scum is much more playstyle change than anything as I read his ISO and that is a bit weak. I was wrong, and I accept that.

Unless cult hit unrecruitables/recruit doc protects or we vigs killed someone who was recruited in same night, we should bel at lylo today. I support massclaim even more now.

NS- Why did you not kill anyone? Or if you did target someone, then who?

[Battousai]

Massclaim- yes/no? We have just a handful of people left, IIRC. We really should nail this down before voting.

[Battousai]

Sure, but then what is stopping scum from claiming unrecruitable? We'd have scum in the unrecruitable pool, and scum in the recruitable pool and would just end up "which person is most likely town/scum based on scumhunting" AND give scum a list of all unrecruitables...

[Battousai]

Uh, only a couple people claimed unrecruitable because it would be bad to let the scum know who all is unrecruitable (thus, I'm betting there are more left).

You are really pushing this anti-town crap, and it makes me believe you are scum moreso than just playstyle change.

[Battousai]

Okay.

1) Outing all the unrecruitables will not help us lynch correctly as scum can easily claim unrecruitable
2) There is no way to be sure that it is lylo
2.a) Outing the unrecruitables will help cult successfully recruit tonight if it isn't.

Anti-town: Hurts town, doesn't help town in any way.
Your plan: Hurts town, doesn't help town in any way.

Therefore, by the transitive property, Your plan = anti-town.

[Battousai]

ML- If town has a pertinent role, we would have heard it. But I'm not interested in that right now. I want to know the unclaimed roles as cult could be among the unclaimed.

Yos- Fucking claim or give me a reason not to and stop ignoring me
Flameaxe- Fucking claim or give me a reason not to and stop ignoring me
Anyone else who hasn't claimed- Claim!

[Battousai]

I'm still not claiming. What am I ignoring?

When I say claim, you say nothing. That's ignoring. Saying, "I'm not claiming because x,y,z is not ignoring." I'm not letting this claim drop without good reason why it should. Not claiming is making me paranoid, as scum could easily be using their powers for evil and not claiming is what is keeping them safe-ish.

Speaking of which, why aren't you claiming today?

[Battousai]

Flameaxe/Yos- Ya... and if you are scum, then there is scum gain, which is what I'm trying to eliminate.

The thing is, IF you are town, there is no gain. What it does is takes the chance that if you are scum, there will be negative gain.

Vote: Flameaxe

until you claim.

Yos- I want you to claim, so that's 1 down.
Flameaxe- Why is there no town benefit to do so? Yesterday you were all happy for everyone to claim, until someone said they didn't want to. Well now if Yos claims, I don't see why you wouldn't.

[Battousai]

Yos- Your logic is wrong there. If it doesn't hurt town, but hurts scum then there should be no reason not to claim.

Why should you claim if you are town? Well, failure to do so doesn't hurt you, but does alleviate the suspicion that you are scum and are hiding something.

Flameaxe- Yesterday, you were all gun ho for people claiming and did not once tell people to stop and get an unanimous decision on the massclaim. Then when people started balking, you say we shouldn't claim because not everyone wanted to claim. Now, it's just down to you and Yos and you CHANGE your reasoning to "there is no reason to."

Your scum. And I will not unvote you.

[Battousai]

Flameaxe- So you no longer see any benefit in it... after everyone else (except Yos who can't use his ability due to ML) has claimed... that is why I think you are scum.

[Battousai]

EDIT- After you WANTED everyone else to claim, I mean.

[Battousai]

Busy/distracted is the RB flavor... I can see that as (from most to least probable flavor-wise only):

entertainer/dancer- An exotic dancer would definitly be distracting
priest- This/doctor/bartender/bank clerk I can see as all being busy (going to the church, having a doctor's appointment, getting drunk, have to go to the bank)
doctor
bartender
bank clerk
corrupt cop- From here down it gets very unlikely... Corrupt cop is hasseling you would make you distracted
cook- Busy eating
city councilperson- Have to go pay a politician a visit and make a complaint on the mob crisis
factory worker- These three I can't really come up with a logical reason they would distract you or make you busy.
teamster
business owner

20 bucks says flameaxe's role is roleblocker, since, you know, he refuses to claim...

Flameaxe- I take offence to being a shitty vig. How many people have you correctly lynched (without being told by a cop that they were scum)? 1. How many have scum have I gotten rid of? 2. Therefore, you are the shittier scumhunter if I am a shitty vig.

[Battousai]

Hero- What was the flavor, other than busyness/distracted?

[Battousai]

Hero- You can probably paraphrase better than busy/distracted.

I believe at least one person said they thought they were blocked by DGB yesterday. Since DGB was an "entertainer" as well, if you could paraphrase your block flavor, that'd be great.

[Battousai]

Been gone due to school/moving in. Back now.


Yos, I don't like that plan.
1) Con is lying about his role/alignment, vigging him would flip us cult (best scenerio)
2) Con is lying about alignment, vigging him would waste a vig shot and he will still be alive tomorrow giving us no information on his alignment
3) Con is telling the truth, same as 2
4) Con is telling the truth, scum can RB him and he will flip town

Best scenerio reward is outweighed by what would hurt us.

[Battousai]

Fuck it. Conspiracy is pretty scummy as well, but no where near as scummy as Flameaxe. But that wagon isn't going to happen because Hero says he wasn't entertained block last night.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ConSpiracy

[Battousai]

It shouldn't be game over. Conspiracy should flip scum and we should have another day or 2 based on how well me and NS do tonight.

[Battousai]

...

[Battousai]

Kind of useless now. There was a chance I may kill someone not flameaxe, but if we switch lists it would be for certain, which means I'd just get rb'd, redirected, or whatever.

[Battousai]

Damn, was hoping town could turn around and win this, but it was nigh impossible when I got away with killing Ooba (which I figured was town thinking us vigs were unrecruitable). That mass claim was poorly timed as it gave us a guidebook on who to block and who to kill/recruit.

[Battousai]

I have to say, small cult = hard cult to kill. Out of 20 some players, only 4 were cult at one time, IIRC, and one was protected- which made it 3. The fact that Yos was jailkept made the Kinetic cult impossible to destroy just about (aside from lynching).

I got lucky with ABR cult. It was about 50/50 on ThAd or Katsuki on who to kill. If I killed Katsuki, we probably wouldn't have lynched ThAd that day and ABR would have been a bigger threat.

[Battousai]

Well, it's kind of hard to hit 3 scum out of 20 targets, so hitting 1 who became recruit is better than nothing

[Battousai]

Tis wasn't I.

[Battousai]

When cult wins, the only winners is the recruiter/leader and the N0/pregame recruits (players who didn't get a chance to play by their original wincon). Everyone else on the cult are just zombies who lose no matter what (as playing against original wincon means you can no longer win with that faction).