Mass Effect Mafia (Draw)

[Toogeloo]

God I'm glad I didn't get Udina. That's how you get rewarded for picking the best draft numbers eh Rhinox.

/confirm.

I know, right? The 3rd re-roll I just rolled a 10,10 and told the mods to just give me whoever was left

p.s. what does a governor do anyways, I've never seen the role before?

This... is what I did this game.

I still havent got a pm yet. what is everyone confirming?

...and this also happened to me, which is why I hadn't confirmed in thread yet, but I saw it in my Inbox when I woke up this morning.



/confirm.


I did 10, 10 for my draft, and listed all the choices in alphabetical order (I didn't care who I got). Anderson was at the top of the list, so I guess technically I got my first pick.



Universal Backup says that I permanently take on the mantle of the first Power Role that dies.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: Rhinox

...simply because if he is scum, I don't want them to have a Governor.

[Toogeloo]

Game I played with a Governor prevented any votes for a player during the day phase (or reduced all votes to 0), but allowed lynching of another player.

[Toogeloo]

We'll need the backups to clarify for sure. I'm not sure how that would work.

What I AM sure of is, for serious, when I saw Toog's post I immediately went "Ok, toog is scum and they're trying to get the gov on backup."

THEN LO AND BEHOLD I CHECKED THE FRONT PAGE AND LOOKIELOO

I don't suppose I could vote anyone with reasoning that I felt I wanted it out of Scum's hands without you saying the same thing though. Smells like a set up to me .

[Toogeloo]

The reason why we're doing it is acutally pretty obvious: we want to see what Rhinox does with the governor ability under pressure and his reaction to us voting him for it. In the absence of a real huge scumtell it's akin to an RVS vote.

I don't understand this. It's almost wishy washy.

How can something be a pressure vote to determine intent with an ability that won't be used until an actual threat to existence presents itself (I didn't even notice if he said he could use it on himself as well), and yet also be a RVS vote too?

Unvote; Vote: SpyreX

He's either scum,

or he's right about Toogeloo.

Take your picks.

This one. Its this one.

Goin vig dancin' is too hard because there should be a big ass target on them. Governor though? That's easy peasy and might slide through.

This doesn't even sound like a semi-serious response at first glance. Are you playing half-heartedly, or is just me?

Unvote;
Vote: Silent Wraith

Liking Sathoris as town atm and willing to give support to this cause.

[Toogeloo]

Lynching governor on Day 1 doesn't really sound like a great idea.

Vote: Sathoris

cause he's a roleblocker. Just a shot in the dark really.

Can a Governor Govern themselves?

yes, I can

There it is, surprised I missed it consider the game isn't moving that fast. Makes it impossible to determine alignment if we give Rhinox an out to Govern himself since town and scum alike would govern themselves. It would be better served he

don't

use it on himself to better see what reads he is willing to Govern.

[Toogeloo]

Reck apparently has no conviction of his own. Reads he doesn't give a shit between me or SpyreX. Flip flop flip flop.

SpyreX's play boggles me still, like this is Dynasty Warriors or something. Did he just challenge me to a duel? Roleplay doesn't really do anything for a game, just sayin'. I stand by original assessment that you aren't really trying and just spewing nonsense atm.


Current suspicions:
Silent Wraith
Reck


Would be down for either of these lynches atm.

[Toogeloo]

Reck apparently has no conviction of his own. Reads he doesn't give a shit between me or SpyreX. Flip flop flip flop.

SpyreX's play boggles me still, like this is Dynasty Warriors or something. Did he just challenge me to a duel? Roleplay doesn't really do anything for a game, just sayin'. I stand by original assessment that you aren't really trying and just spewing nonsense atm.

Current suspicions:
Silent Wraith
Reck


Would be down for either of these lynches atm.

Do you think Spyre X is scum? What value is exclaiming he's role playing have on your read of him? If people get into character, do you think they're scum?

No, I haven't gotten the impression SpyreX is scum yet, nor do I think that just because someone doesn't appear to be taking the game seriously, it makes them scum.

[Toogeloo]

You guys do realize I can't push any lynch with the paranoia logic you use, right?

I can't push Neighborizor, otherwise it looks like I just want the neighbor powers. I can't push Vig, otherwise it looks like all I want is killing power. Too bad I don't just sit back and let the game unfold on itself. Add nintendo to list of suspects for not following along, thinking ender was the backup. Reads that he justs wants on the popular wagon.


PEDIT: Funny that one of my suspects is calling another of my suspects town. Keep this in mind.


In hindsight, if you guys want to lynch me, I am the safest lynch you can get away with today.

[Toogeloo]

My initial vote on Governor was RVS. Picked a power I didn't want scum to have. My callouts since then haven't had anything to do with Power, or are you not paying attention?

[Toogeloo]

I know it means Random Vote Stage, but just because I picked a power doesn't mean that it wasn't done during the stage of the game that is considered to be RVS. I have no idea if the power I picked is town or scum, I picked one I didn't want scum to have. Nothing against Rhinox.

[Toogeloo]

Unvote;
Vote: Reck

It is scummy.

[Toogeloo]

I did.

You think I'm scum? Or just tunnelingtown?

Vote me if you think it's scummy.

C'mon punk. Do it.

I'd like to point out the two very interesting parts of this quote btw...

You think I'm scum?

Insinuating the possibility of him being scum, and trying to get two mislynches.

Or just tunnelingtown?

Insinuating he knows he is tunneling town.



Either way, he doesn't really believe I am scum.

[Toogeloo]

My initial vote on Governor was RVS. Picked a power I didn't want scum to have. My callouts since then haven't had anything to do with Power, or are you not paying attention?

Picking who to vote for does not = RVS at ALL. Even if it was in the RVS your vote was not.

Vote stays.

Oh... really?

Spy should die D1 imo

Vote: SPYREX

FOR THE BLOOD GOD

Picked premeditatedly before the game started.

vote:nintendoaddict1

Mass Effect isn't on any Nintendo system! therefor, he must be a spy!

Picked for not being on a nintendo system.

Ugh, finally.

Vote: Spyrex

, as he is clearly a spy.

--Wraith

Picked for being a "spy."

vote: hiraki

because I don't like him (not really )

Picked for not liking the guy.

vote: hiraki

because I don't like him (not really )

Vote: Rhinox

for beating me to the punch. Only

I

can vote Hiraki in RVS, you know.

Picked because some one voted first.

Vote: Nintendo

This is shitty.

...for being shit.

Vote: Rhinox

...simply because if he is scum, I don't want them to have a Governor.

...for being Governor.

Lynching governor on Day 1 doesn't really sound like a great idea.

Vote: Sathoris

cause he's a roleblocker. Just a shot in the dark really.

...for being roleblocker...



In fact I don't see a single person who said, "Because I went to random.org and this is the person that site told me to vote for. RVS is simply a term for the beginning of the game. No vote is ever truly fucking random, and everyone knows that.

[Toogeloo]

I think you are not fully understanding what RVS is. It is basically voting someone without reasoning and usually add a humorous comment after as the person being voted is voted randomly by looking at the player list.

your vote was not random, you were voting for a role you did not like the sound off (in scum as you say)... that is not random. You had reasoning behind it

I don't think you understand what Random is. You specifically chose nintendo, did you not? Did you go to Random.org, plug in a list, and it came up with nintendo for you?

I had a list of people's roles I didn't want scum to have, I chose Governor.



Christ, are we really having an argument over semantics of what constitutes a RVS vote and what doesn't? I guarantee you that I am not the only voter that chose something specific using it in the RVS as a way to get reads.

[Toogeloo]

I am willing to strike a deal right now with the entire town.

Lynch me today. If I flip town, tomorrow, no if ands or buts, you lynch Reck. I don't give a shit if a Cop scans him innocent. He dies.

[Toogeloo]

No, what you don't get is you targeted someone because you didn't like the role, there is nothing RVS about that.

No, I don't use Random.org, as I said. I just randomly pick someone from the player list and make a humorous comment on them that can be tied into the game somehow. Random vote stage is voting someone without reason or intent on a lynch target. It was clear you did and therefor not random.

Really, you don't think I looked at Vigs, Roleblockers, Redirectors, and thought to myself... Those are all ok to have in Scum hands, but god forbid they have a Governor.

I just told you, I had a list of roles I didn't want scum to have. I chose Governor from that list as my vote.


Did you look at the list and just randomly pick one, or did you narrow it down a little yourself some?

[Toogeloo]

Lets test your town-ness.

What, without direct quoting is your win con?

/confirm

I can follow a person at night and see whoever they visited. My wincon is when all indoctrinated and infected players are dead, and all the threats to the peace in the galaxy are eliminated.

I did not quote my role pm. If you really have the same wincon as me, you will see that I've changed the phrasing a little bit.

I didn't compare to my role PM wincon, I just noted the words "indoctrinated and infected players", "threats", "peace", and "galaxy" and assumed that you copied it.

((The randomized anti-town alignment PMs are now being sent out...))

Hmm... let me think here...


Don't be dense. Everyone got a town role with the same wincon in all likelihood and then a new PM was sent with a new Wincon. Would you believe me even if I told you my wincon?

[Toogeloo]

This is somewhat how I broke the roles down before the game, since people asked.


Roles I don't care if scum has:
Bulletproof Compulsive Bodyguard - I dont care if scum has this. If a Town Vig tries to shoot someone scummy, and they don't die, then the BG likely protected them. It casts doubt on the alignment of the BG player.
Forensic Investigator - I don't care if scum has this, as every PR in the game is already listed and who they are. This power only benefits scum by denying town from having it.
Watcher - Again, Scum only benefit from this by denying town.
Tracker - See Watcher and Forensic Investigator.
Doctor - See Bodyguard.
Networker - Anyone who trusts a randomly aligned Night Talker would deserve to get bamboozled if they were scum. Trust your own reads. Not worried about this role.
Roleblocker - Unless they roleblock the scummiest looking people, they are going to get flak.

Powers I don't want scum to have:
1-shot Vigilante - Extra scum kill, can easily be written off as "I shot them because I thought they were scummy" or held until giving scum a winning numbers advantage, especially with multiple vig roles.
Governor - I was worried about the LyLo implications of this role in scum hands.
Bus Driver - Unlimited use could be used to constantly redirect two players and confuse town, especially with multiple redirecting roles.
JOAT with kill, track, bus drive, and forensic investigate - A few abilities I don't care about, but has both a bus and a vig.
Gifter with vig, bulletproof, double-vote, and watch - the ability to give their mates a BP, DV (bad at lylo), and Vig.
2-shot Redirector - Not as powerful as the bus driver, but confusing to town none the less.

[Toogeloo]

why would you quote someone else saying their win con, but refuse to answer yourself?

Because I feel it doesn't need to be said, since it's already implicated in the topic. I "could" tell you my wincon, but then we just get into WIFOM.

[Toogeloo]

I am willing to strike a deal right now with the entire town.

Lynch me today. If I flip town, tomorrow, no if ands or buts, you lynch Reck. I don't give a shit if a Cop scans him innocent. He dies.

Would love to hear responses to this.

[Toogeloo]

Even though there's not a cop in the game as well.

[Toogeloo]

Uh, no... my deal is just that. You lynch me today, nothing saves Reck from being lynched tomorrow. Was making a point about it.

[Toogeloo]

Reck, you willing to 1 for 1 with me? You said your power was LAME if I recall, so no one would miss it.

[Toogeloo]

The main basis of the argument is that Toog voted seriously, in the time of RVS correct?

Actually, the way I understand it, its that he voted seriously (regardless of when), and when pressured about his reasoning, he tried to play it off as LOLRVS. And then he tried to deflect by basically saying "hey what about everyone elses RVS votes why don't you question them?"

I don't really get toog's 1v1 proposed plan. I don't see how he's even really presented any argument for reck scum, but he's willing to 1 for 1 with him? It's not a pro-town plan, but its not something I'd expect scum to do either, knowing that once toog flips scum, reck won't be autolynched. The proposal seems either like stupid town, or some desparate gambit to try to make reck look like confirmed town after toogscum dies or something like that. I'll consider the plan proposal null.

Actually, I have clearly stated that my vote was done in the RVS stage, and people bashed me because it wasn't random enough to qualify as a Random Vote Stage vote. I didn't realize there was a difference between placing a vote in the RVS and a vote not being RVS viable. Mission accomplished for getting us out of that stage I suppose.

As for the 1 for 1 with Reck. He was being a troll (and still is to minor extent). Not the Reck I've seen in games like Blackest Night where he tore Scum apart. If he isn't willing to be an all star, then I am willing to get rid of him 1v1 with my own read that I think he is scum himself for trying to avoid attention and push it on others. It's all gut.

[Toogeloo]

However, we do find the whole 'hang person X if I die' tomorrow to be somewhat scummy, because of the WIFOM that opens up.

Also, two dead townies serve no one.

We do plan on watching Toog in the days to come.[/b]

So you saying you know that Reck is town?

Also, what WIFOM? I'm a Universal Backup striking a deal with the town on Day 1, which means in all likelihood you are going off my own gut, not a scan or some other mechanic. It's not up to me whether or not you guys take the deal. That has nothing to do with WIFOM.

What's more suspicious to us, at least, is the above reasoning for town--we dislike the argument. for it makes an intuitive leap; and does so in lieu of scum hunting, which is not something Hiraki's done a lot of without prompting. Or more plainly, Hiraki's spent more time giving us his town read on Toog then giving us any real scum reads on much of anyone else.

Discounting Town Hunting is poor play and a good way for people to point a finger at someone who "appears" to not be doing anything, which is wrong. I town hunt all the time, in fact it can be easier than scum hunting sometimes if I can't just get a read on players.


Your content is lackluster as well Silent Wraith, considering your ISO, which almost seems lurkish and content to be forced, so I have no reason to remove my vote at the moment, especially given that I don't like your responses from this quoted post in particular.

[Toogeloo]

Am I the only one who's gut tingled when Ghost said, "I have a long post waiting to hammer Ender, but I'm waiting," like it was scum looking to get permission to hammer, but doesn't want to hammer because hammer posts are heavily scrutinized?


Last few pages, I am not like Ghost's posts. I think he is provoking nintendo into making mistakes, or trying to at least. Most of his cases are just jabs and inquiries, looking to get nintendo off kilter I think.


I want this on record that I don't trust the motivation hehind Ghost's posts.

Unvote;
Vote: GhostWriter

[Toogeloo]

If it's of any consequence, I think both Jason and Nintendo are town. Not like I haven't seen the "lying gambit" before as well. Reck's hosted WoW game had a liar that was town on Day 1, who gambited against another town by lying.

I am more concerned with the players who are coming in and making jabs at the top suspects while allowing the more vocal players to push the lynches.

[Toogeloo]

If it's of any consequence, I think both Jason and Nintendo are town. Not like I haven't seen the "lying gambit" before as well. Reck's hosted WoW game had a liar that was town on Day 1, who gambited against another town by lying.

I am more concerned with the players who are coming in and making jabs at the top suspects while allowing the more vocal players to push the lynches.

So who are those players then?

GhostWriter is my number one gut atm. My town read from earlier on Sathoris is disappearing as well as he just pops in from time to time. You actually haven't done much to make my image of you appear anything townie. Reck still trollin' but I've lost interest in him. Ghost or you (Rhinox) I would be fine with lynching at this very moment, with Sathoris starting to make my eyebrow raise. Good 'nuff?

[Toogeloo]

I think he is saying that Nintendo needs to die regardless since as either scum or VI, he is a bane to town's existence. As scum, we get rid of one of them, as VI we alleviate our stress of his presence. Scum get a mislynch if he is town VI.

Based on the comment, I think Sathoris believes Nintendo to be town, but is willing to get rid of him simply because of the VI status.

[Toogeloo]

wraith: why policy lynch when he can be vigged?

Re-Re-Redirect.

But thats like saying I should be lynched because I could govern myself.

If he redirects off himself, its basically a scum claim.

Too much WIFOM.

-Suppose he is Town, but the Busdriver is scum and moves the Vig shot to someone else? Then we mislynch him tomorrow instead?
-Maybe he is town, and redirects the shot to someone else he thinks is scum, but they are town? (If you are town, and you have the power to prevent your death, wouldn't you do it?)
-Maybe the Vig is scum, and won't shoot him to set up more WIFOM. (oh, I fired at him last night and he is still alive, but this person is dead now).


In short, stop trying to direct Night Actions. It's scummy in and of itself to do so, and if you are town, all you are doing is helping scum set up their own night actions.

[Toogeloo]

I'm assuming Ender, since that is where his vote is.

[Toogeloo]

I believe Reck is asking for a town or scum claim, not a role claim as we already know what Ender is

Or Reck really doesn't even care about this game and completely forgot it's open setup, and the post was a "going through the motions" post.

[Toogeloo]

So, as many of you know, I inherited the Watcher ability after yesterday's events.

I have info. Juicy info...


It seems our good Forensic Investigator decided to check out a living body last night, but left the body in not such a condition.


I watched ShadowGuru last night, for two reasons. First, he was pretty damn pro-town with his walls and such. Second, he was the Doctor, and I figured I would learn from people targeting him who might be town and who might be scum (ie if Roleblocker targeted him, probably scum, if bodyguard targeted him, probably town, etc...).

ONLY 1 OTHER PERSON THAN MYSELF TARGETED SHADOWGURU LAST NIGHT!

GhostWriter, time to die bud...

Vote: GhostWriter

This makes my read on you much sweeter too by the way.

[Toogeloo]

I'd like to know why Reck isn't voting for confirmed scum GhostWriter.

His role doesn't target living people.
There is no Ninja in the game, and he was the only person to target someone who died (other than me as the Watcher).

It's not hard to figure out.


My guess on ability use would be that they get to use both their regular ability and send a kill, though the host may make it required that if there is a viable body to send the kill that isn't taking any other action, that player must do so, instead of having someone use two actions. That is completely guessing of course, and no one can give you a concrete answer Reck, I would assume even the host.

[Toogeloo]

I gifted Toogeloo. With what, I don't know. For the same reasons as I thought he was town yesterday, his responses to the pressure, and no one else seemed to be a better target.

Also want to comment on this.

As of yet, I cannot confirm receiving a gift from PV, though I have asked the host about it. It may be that I don't get the gift until the night phase begins, or the host failed to tell me about it.

[Toogeloo]

Host confirms I did not receive a gift from PV.

(is that straight and concise enough for you Rhinox?)

[Toogeloo]

You NEVER cut deals with scum. And I agree with Jason (whom I still believe is town), that there is almost no likelihood of an SK in this game with the already large amount of killing power and small numbers.

There is one thing that gives cause for pause though. SpyreX probably didn't shoot himself I imagine, unless he was redirected to himself. I wonder if Nintendo redirected SpyreX to himself. Also, Reck, did SpyreX mention his intent to shoot someone in his QT with you?

[Toogeloo]

Why would a Mafia Governor out himself and put his neck on the line like that?

Regardless, if he stops the lynch, GW eats a bullet tonight from the vig and we powerlynch Rhinox tomorrow. No questions asked.

Dont think we have any other Vig shots, other than a possible gifted Vig shot.

PV says he gifted me last night, but I have not received any gift. PV also makes it sound like whatever he gifts is random.

Either way it's not something that can be counted on.


Jason burned his one Vig shot on Nintendo apparently, and Spyspy is dead.

[Toogeloo]

Knowing the anonymous player may be useful information, if we are going to talk about it.

For one, the player was considered worthy of killing by someone, most likely a non-town player, which ended up making Spy take the hit, right? So it seems extremely likely that the player that Spy flipped with is town.


If we are to take your word for it Reck, SK seems the only plausible answer. Vig shot is admitted on Nintendo, Spy apparently did not take a shot. PV's gift never hit me. Hmm... Did Spy bus himself with me? Might make sense with the lack of gift I got.

[Toogeloo]

got a pretty interesting night action too.

Do share...

In fact, we are at -1, so we may all want to share, before someone hammers. (May not be a bad idea to remove a vote just until everyone can chime in).


I may not have gotten a gift on N1, but PV came through and gifted me last night. There are 5 ways that I can see that a kill didn't happen last night.

1) Amrun/Sathoris blocked the kill.
2) Silent Wraith protected the kill.
3) PV's gift from Night 1 was Bulletproof and scum hit that player.
4) Hiraki redirected the kill onto either Silent Wraith or a player that had BP gift from PV.
5) Scum did not send in a kill.

I think 2 and 4 are the least likely to have happened since 2 means that mafia either shot Silent Wraith (why?) or that Amrun is lying about Roleblocking Silent Wraith (again... why?).


I still maintain that jason is town, and given PV's gift to me, and the way he went about Day 2's gift claim, I believe he is Town as well. Rhinox's desire to possibly govern a scum yesterday makes him look awful, but I doubt that scum would paint that big a target on themselves, or even ask for town approval. Remaining Scum lies in Reck, Nero, Hiraki, or Rhinox in my opinion. With as fast as yesterday went, and leaving pretty much only Day 1 to work with for interactions, I would like us to try to slow down a titch today to work out reads.

I would like to know specifically what Nero and Hiraki did last night myself.

[Toogeloo]

What's the case? Amrun blocked me? I'm acutally not sure why most of you are voting me, and I'd like to hear it. Particularly since Reck's been trolling most of this game of this game. I protected Toog last night.

Oh, did you?

Because Toog watched himself and I'm pretty sure he'd know if you did this.

bzzzzzzzzzzt

This is correct.

Watched myself last night, and I only had 2 visitors. Reck, who neighbored me, and PeregrineV, who gifted me.

[Toogeloo]

meh... that's WIFOMable really. You could have known saving Silent Wraith was a lost cause and had him state he protected me so you could set yourself up for the end.

[Toogeloo]

At any rate.

Vote: Silent Wraith

We haven't had jason pop in yet, and Rhinox is still rereading, but I still maintain my list from before.

Jason, Peregrine, and Amrun are all pretty much obvtown. Final scum(s) are in Hiraki, Nero, Reck, and Rhinox.

[Toogeloo]

How would I have known it was a lost cause BEFORE someone claimed the action?

If scum have day talk, you could have told Silent Wraith your plan to have him claim a protect on me after he already had damning evidence against him from the Roleblock.

We can worry about this later though.


jason is obvtown to me. His interactions on Day 1 screamed town on town, fueled by GhostWriter scum in the background. jason admitting to using his vig on nintendo the next day also gives me an apologetic town vibe. You guys can take whatever you want from it, but I like jason as town.

[Toogeloo]

Page 1 of the game... this is smalltown setup. All claims are known. I became Watcher when Ender was lynched Day 1.

[Toogeloo]

hmmmm... I have NEVER seen a Governor be able to save themselves from lynch. In-fact, I don't recall ANY power roles that can use their power on themselves such as cop, doc, tracker etc.

mod says I can, asked right after receiving my role PM.

whats so scary about a governor anyways? Only bad scenario I can think of is that a scum governor is unlynchable in lylo. Conversely, a town governor is only really helpful in lylo as far as I can tell.

If its a role everyone is really so worried about being scum, being an open setup, at anytime you guys can ask me to use it on myself (or any other player) and take the role out of consideration.

Coming back to this Day 1 post.

Would you mind governing yourself today Rhinox? Speaking personally, I don't want any Governor shenanigans as we get closer to end game. If anyone disagrees, feel free to keep it.

[Toogeloo]

Find out if someone can use a gift the same night they receive it. Could explain Spy's death on Night 1.

[Toogeloo]

Sathoris disliked Silent Wraith from the beginning of the game, and it wouldn't surprise me that this might be the second night that he blocked SW.

I don't think a Governor is necessary to have at end game, and I especially don't want a potential LyLo situation to come up and it to be an issue. Whether Rhinox is the last scum, or he governs the last scum, it should just not even be an issue nor should we have to worry about it being an issue.


I don't understand Hiraki's question. I don't think anyone has stated PV was the target for night kill.

[Toogeloo]

He gifted me with what I think is one of the few gifts that I think scum would desire (though I think all are good gifts). Not to mention, he could just as easily gift all of his gifts to his scum team, if he were scum. I have very little reason to doubt PV's alignment at the moment. He has not stood out as scummy at all this game that I recall even.


Don't take my word for it though. If you think someone I called town is scum, then show your case. That is what Mafia is all about after all.

[Toogeloo]

Game I played with a Governor prevented any votes for a player during the day phase (or reduced all votes to 0), but allowed lynching of another player.

Pretty much this. I get the option to use it in twilight before the lynch scene is posted. If I use it, the player I use it on may not be lynched for the rest of the day. So no, it doesn't end the day. Yes, I can use it at will (but don't see a reason to before lylo unless you guys want to blow away the role).

Didn't you earlier say you had the

option

to use it in twilight? But now you can only use it in twilight? This also seems like a very limited use Governor considering we could potentially lynch with you away and then the scene get posted shortly after and you would be completely unawares.

[Toogeloo]

Will you using your power end the day? or will day continue? I am guessing from your above that it will end the day.

are you fucking kidding me... am I being punk'd?

XFD

[Toogeloo]

So, you spoke of Bus Driving yesterday, did you do it Hiraki?
Since we have over a quarter of the town on V/LA based on the first few posts, I don't think there is any need to put down votes until they get back. Discussion is fine, and I would like to know what actions we have from yesterday. Obviously, Reck stated he Neighbored Amrun, I'd like to know what they talked about.

[Toogeloo]

I'd like to hear from Nero and Rhinox before proceeding.

PV and Reck, thoughts on who is scum?


Jason and PV are still my biggest town reads; and I am still unsure if we are dealing with 3 or 4 scum. My biggest gut is Reck at the moment, mostly for suspicious and mostly trollish behavior. Hiraki NOT using his Bus to save Amrun is VERY suspicious though. That seemed like an absolute no brainer to me.

[Toogeloo]

Reck neighboring people who end up dead the next day has actually only happened twice, though I am fairly certain I was the Night 2 target with the way SW said he was going to "Bodyguard" me. This seems more incidental to any argument on him.

I think the other two are just incidental. First off, there were 3 kills on Night 1, and SpyreX is a high profile target both as a player and with his role this game. Amrun was the cause of Silent Wraith Day 3, so then of course he becomes a target for the scum, much as I had a large hand in getting GhostWriter lynched the day before. Between Amrun and myself, Amrun was the bigger threat due to stopping night kills all together.

Reck targeting people who were the cause of lynches the day before seems like proper play for a Neighbor since he is most likely targeting town from a townie perspective. If he were scum, he would target the more dangerous powers that weren't in the mafia that looked even remotely pro-town I think. Also, after returning to my QT with Reck, something was said that suddenly gives me the thought Reck "might" be town. He asked me, "Why are you so convinced people think you're town? They don't." This isn't something a scum says to another player whom he intends to kill that night (which I still maintain was going to happen).


Next, Rhinox voting for Hiraki over Reck who has 2 votes already, leads me to believe that Rhinox is probably town as well. As we get down to the wire, I think scum would be going with the flow of traffic in order to secure a lynch that isn't their own. Voting Hiraki when he could just as easily get Reck closer to a lynch seems like odd play for a mafiosi.

Nero still hasn't checked in, and he is the last remaining scanner, so what ever info he has might still be relevant. I will go back and review Hiraki as well. His lack of Bussing, and claiming it to be scummy to do, and then the apologetic last post he made about playing poorly, all of it seems a bit odd to me.

[Toogeloo]

Are you sure there is only one scum left?

[Toogeloo]

Ghost was already on the attack against Nintendo as well though. Would all 3 scum be vying for the same mislynch?

[Toogeloo]

I think Jason was just the more vocal player and they fed off his attack while still letting Jason take all the heat. I can't see 3 scum all backing each other on attacking Nintendo, and then Vigging her and claiming it the next night. Just makes no sense at all.

However, Ghost and SW edging Jason into thinking he was on the right track and more or less motivating him to shoot that night, does seem like they played Jason into doing what they wanted while buddying up.

[Toogeloo]

Silent Wraith is Wrex, Bulletproof Compulsive Bodyguard!
- Scum. Said he protected SpyreX night 1 and was all "wtf?!" about it failing; claimed he protected Toogeloo Night 2.

GhostWriter is Garrus, Forensic Investigator!
- Scum. Got caught killing ShadowGuru on Night 1.

ender241 is Joker, 2-shot Watcher!
- Lynched Day 1.

JasonT1981 is Ashley, 1-shot Vigilante!
- Claimed the kill against Nintendo Night 1.

Rhinox is Udina, 1-shot Governor!
- Has not used his power yet.

Hiraki is Liara, Bus Driver!
- Has claimed to not use his power yet.

Amrun is Kaidan, Roleblocker!
- Blocked Hiraki Night 1; Blocked Silent Wraith Night 2. According to Reck, blocked PV on Night 3, PV confirms.

Nero Cain is Nihlus, Tracker!
- Claimed a Track on Night 2 on Hiraki as No Result. Says Marco did not submit an action Night 1. Waiting on Night 3 Result.

ShadowGuru is Chakwas, Doctor!
- Died Night 1.

xRECKONERx is Benezia, Networker!
- Networked SpyreX Night 1, Toogeloo Night 2, and Amrun Night 3.

SpyreX is Shepard, JOAT with kill, track, bus drive, and forensic investigate!
- Died Night 1. Was going to Bus himself with an unknown player, according to Reck.

PeregrineV is Tali, Gifter with vig, bulletproof, double-vote, and watch!
- Gifted a 1 Shot Vig Night 1, stating Toogeloo as Target. Toogeloo claims to have never gotten it. Gifted Toogeloo again on Night 2, this time, gift received. Roleblocked Night 3.

Toogeloo is Anderson, Universal Backup!
- Watched ShadowGuru Night 1, saw only Ghost visit. Watched Toogeloo Night 2, saw Reck and PeregrineV visit.

nintendoaddict1 is Saren, 2-shot Redirector!
- Killed Night 1, no known action.

[Toogeloo]

It's impossible to tell. The abilities that the two scum have that have flipped wouldn't suggest anything of that nature.

Forensic Investigator was lynched before he had the opportunity to use the power, and he probably wouldn't even need to use the power.
Compulsive Bulletproof Bodyguard would be the only one that would HAVE to use his power, and he would likely use it on his scum buddies over town. Only a Watch or Track would have told us whether he used it or not, but he was roleblocked on Night 2 anyways.

I think Nero's visit probably clears Rhinox. If Rhinox was scum, he probably would have sent the night kill, assuming only one scum left. If Nero is scum, he knows that targeting the only player without a night action is the safest play. Gut tells me that Nero is also town, only because if he were scum, he could have claimed any number of tracks as the last player to claim his action, so why clear someone as town with no result off of Rhinox?


I'm leaning Hiraki here as our lynch today. Gotta read him more to determine for sure though.



EBWOP: I only had 2 uses of Watching. I used them both already.

[Toogeloo]

Vote Count shows Shadow Wraith put a vote on Hiraki after Rhinox took his off, while a good deal of suspicion was going back and forth between ender and nintendo. This shows as a distancing vote by my gut. Hiraki's ISO reads as just a null mess of fluff and tunneling on 3 players while white knighting me for my governor vote.

Shadow Wraith only discusses Hiraki during the point where he votes him for white knighting me. Then there is no mention of Hiraki the rest of the game. GhostWriter ignores Hiraki and ShadowWraith pretty much entirely.

Hiraki also stated that the only time to bus is at the end of the game. Last night would have been the best time, and he didn't do it. I just can't believe he wouldn't think of removing our most powerful town from danger.

Vote: Hiraki

[Toogeloo]

Meta also suggests that with TOWN confirmed Driver in SpyreX and Redirection in nintendo... would we really have a full on bus driver too?

[Toogeloo]

You can ignore the Meta portion of my thought process if you wish. It has no bearing on the actual reason I voted Hiraki.

[Toogeloo]

Best guess, Hiraki was some form of survivor. All actions support him never having sent in a night kill. Scum are trying to remove any player with the ability to bury them with a night action as well.

PV was roleblocked yesterday, and a kill happened. He is not the final scum.
Rhinox was tracked yesterday and did not go anywhere. He is not the final scum.
My gut STILL tells me Jason did not vig his tunnel target after 2 other scum jointly attacked with him.

Therefore...

Vote: Reck

You have been trying to get people to believe you are confirmed. It has never been true. I am certain you got Silent Wraith to state he targeted me so you could come in and claim that I would know you didn't, which wasn't even necessary since he was roleblocked in the first place. Neighboring is the perfect cover for concealing your kills as well, had Nero tracked you yesterday, it would have shown you visited exactly who were supposed to visit. I wanted to trust your QT since it seemed sincere. But process of elimination means no one but you or Jason remaining is possible scum, and you make FAR more sense.

[Toogeloo]

*toog, you received a double vote from peregrineV N2 and used it D3 yes? Was it compulsory or did you choose to use it?

It was compulsory, and yes, I did get Double Vote from PV. I had to use it on Day 3, it could not be saved, nor was it listed in votals, hence the reason we ended with 4 votes on that day.


Not really gonna banter back at Reck. My logic and case is what it is, though Reck believes it is some form of AtE. Of the 4 remaining players other than myself, Reck has the greatest chance of being scum. Jason is very minimally behind him. PV and Rhinox are more or less guaranteed town. Simple Occam's Razor here.

[Toogeloo]

I'm disappointed it was compulsory and could not be saved, because now you're not as confirmed town as I originally thought. My thinking was, no way in hell scum uses a dbl vote to bus a partner who was clearly going down anyways. What was your thinking in not saying anything about it when you were hammering on D3?

I originally thought it was savable. It wasn't until the day ended that I went back and read it again and saw that it wasn't. I wasn't even aware that I didn't have to vote twice, as that wasn't even mentioned in the gift. What about my Day 2 Action, is there any chance in hell that a scum busses another scum out the gate on Day 2, and then have his partner beg for his life to use his Forensic Investigation to stop a SK?

Why so frantic over not getting a gift Reck, sad PV may have seen the light?



Decided to go over your "argument" as well.

Alright. Toog, I suggest you back off, because I'm town. I've been yelling for jason's head since D1, but Toog actually helped me out by showing me pairing him up with SW/GW makes no sense. Which can only leave Toog left.

So you used my argument, except instead of your name you put mine, k.

Rhinox, I'm quite ready to hear these supposed reasons you believe Toogeloo to be town. I should've just listened to SpyreX in the QT and been done with it from the start. Funny how someone who WASN'T CLEAR died. I guess someone got spooked about being tracked, eh? I was actually putting Nero on my "to lynch" list, so good job alleviating some of my headache, scum.

Hey look, another point that I also made the argument about previously. Tracker was the only remaining power in the game that could bury the last scum.

And if by some chance it isn't Toogeloo, it's jason. If we had an extra lynch I'd fucking vote myself so you guys could move on to lynching jason & Toog, but here we are. Toog is now completely doubting his town read on me? Over jason? It just doesn't add up.

Jason's actions and the interactions from the scum team make far more sense to be town, than any interaction you have had. You were trolling the game up until Day 3 when you started trying to pretend you had anything to do with incriminating Silent Wraith.

And Toog, if you are town, coming after me like that was absolutely [REDACTED] and you deserve to be lynched anyway.

How so, you have done nothing actually pro-town this game. List us your townie accolades and how I am completely blind to them. Your only defense at the moment is that I thought you were town

yesterday,

from a single comment you made in our QT.

Allow me to explain something: I will not accept a lynch on myself unless there is a case presented using actual evidence to back it up. Toog's AtE paragraph blurb about me doesn't cut it.

What AtE? My argument is sound logic and completely devoid of any kind of appeal.

Let me elaborate -- he arbitrarily chooses between jason & I to be the last scum. He says he "can't believe jason would vig his tunnel target" but has no other reason for thinking he's town (and plenty of reasons for jason to be scum). Then, when it comes to me, his ENTIRE reason for voting me is based on some theoretical, elaborate QT-planned bus between myself and Silent Wraith... even though he has a reason to think I'm town, which is my genuine talk in the QT (which he is now disregarding, despite using that as a reason for my towniness yesterday).

Scenario A: Jason asks his scum partners Ghost and Silent, to vig the target all 3 of them were tunneling on on Day 1 and eliminate background noise and force them to find new mislynches.
Scenario B: Reck day talks with Silent and says, "Hey, you are going down anyways, tell them you Bodyguarded Toog last night."
...which makes more sense?

Either Toog or jason could be scum, yes, but Toog's opening action today + SpyreX's original suspicions make me think he's more likely to be scum.

So my perfectly logical statement in the first post and SpyreX's read on me from DAY 1 make you believe I am scum? What about my Day 2, Day 3, and Day 4 actions? Bussing Ghost out the gate is scummy too?

In the QT last night (and PeregrineV can confirm this) I thought Toog/me/PV were the most obvtown people here. It was never a thought in my head to suspect him, until he made that post. You can get PeregrineV to confirm it if you want. And once he does, think about how ELABORATE of a plan it would have to be for me to talk all night about how obvtown Toogeloo is, then kill one of the unconfirmed players thus decreasing my pool of lynchable players, and turn around and launch an attack on Toogeloo.

So you told PV what he wanted to hear. Isn't that what you did as well in my QT? You ignored the possibility of Rhinox being obvtown due to the track? Hell you even called him damn near confirmed town in the thread just before Hiraki's lynch (you didn't mention PV's name btw, so why call PV obvtown in the QT but not in the thread? And why ignore Rhinox in the QT, but called him obvtown in the thread?). And your pool of players is hardly diminished considering you still have Jason to try and mislynch, which I am sure if you were to live to tomorrow you would be like, "I told you all! I fucking told you all he was scum! Now lynch his ass!"

I didn't even THINK about the fact Rhinox & PeregrineV were CONFIRMED by actions to be town. PV & I both said how we don't trust ANYONE -- meanwhile, Toog clearly spent some time reflecting on who was confirmed and already had the whole thing thought out by the time the thread opened.

So wait... you didn't even realize that PV and Rhinox were confirmed via actions, and you went and proclaimed PV obvtown anyways? You obviously were trying to butter up PV (hence the reason you keep screaming for where your gift is too, you thought maybe you had him in your pocket perchance?).

Hey, Toog, you willing to go 1v1 here? Are you THAT confident in your jason-town read? If you are, let's do it. But then there's no backing down from it tomorrow if I get lynched.

You know what... absolutely. If you flip town, I will man up and vote myself tomorrow, before any other votes are cast. You tantrum here just paints a big OMGUS argument. Maybe not knowing PV and Rhinox were confirmed via actions really was truthful on your part and once I pointed it out you paniced. I am still waiting to see how you are confirmed town from Day 3 and Day 4. That argument of yours was never presented. But in regards to this quote... what happened to:

Allow me to explain something: I will not accept a lynch on myself unless there is a case presented using actual evidence to back it up.

Who's AtE now?

[Toogeloo]

There was only 1 scum left. If Nero was scum, he confirms Rhinox regardless of flip.

[Toogeloo]

YOU'VE DESTROYED THE LAST OF THE THORIAN. SAREN'S WEAPON WAS WEAK, AND POORLY DESIGNED. YOU WILL FIND MY LAST ASSASSIN TO BE FAR MORE POWERFUL.

Call it a tad bit of meta.

[Toogeloo]

I didn't need to know Nero was town or scum once end of day flavor went up. EoD Flavor more or less convinced me that Rhinox and PV were confirmed town since only one scum left meant neither were scum.

Nero may have been scum, but it still required that Rhinox was town due to the track result. PV had to be town due to being roleblocked but the kill still happening.


Since Hiraki was blocked on Night 1 (and 3 kills happened), Tracked no where Night 2 (and no kills happened), the logical assumption is that Hiraki did not have killing power and was more than likely a Survivor-type role, which means all kills (other than Nintendos) were done by the mafia team more than likely. And since it was revealed that only one scum exists (meta off of flavor), it more or less confirms Rhinox and PV as town when Night began.

[Toogeloo]

Mostly just waiting on you slackers at this point. Fairly certain you guys that aren't voting should have enough info here to make informed decisions, and I am using this post to prod dodge.

[Toogeloo]

Reck neighboring people who end up dead the next day has actually only happened twice, though I am fairly certain I was the Night 2 target with the way SW said he was going to "Bodyguard" me. This seems more incidental to any argument on him.

I think the other two are just incidental. First off, there were 3 kills on Night 1, and SpyreX is a high profile target both as a player and with his role this game. Amrun was the cause of Silent Wraith Day 3, so then of course he becomes a target for the scum, much as I had a large hand in getting GhostWriter lynched the day before. Between Amrun and myself, Amrun was the bigger threat due to stopping night kills all together.

Reck targeting people who were the cause of lynches the day before seems like proper play for a Neighbor since he is most likely targeting town from a townie perspective. If he were scum, he would target the more dangerous powers that weren't in the mafia that looked even remotely pro-town I think. Also, after returning to my QT with Reck, something was said that suddenly gives me the thought Reck "might" be town. He asked me, "Why are you so convinced people think you're town? They don't." This isn't something a scum says to another player whom he intends to kill that night (which I still maintain was going to happen).


Next, Rhinox voting for Hiraki over Reck who has 2 votes already, leads me to believe that Rhinox is probably town as well. As we get down to the wire, I think scum would be going with the flow of traffic in order to secure a lynch that isn't their own. Voting Hiraki when he could just as easily get Reck closer to a lynch seems like odd play for a mafiosi.

Nero still hasn't checked in, and he is the last remaining scanner, so what ever info he has might still be relevant. I will go back and review Hiraki as well. His lack of Bussing, and claiming it to be scummy to do, and then the apologetic last post he made about playing poorly, all of it seems a bit odd to me.

[Toogeloo]

Didn't mean to post that by itself, but I believe that is the post Reck thinks I am defending him as town.

I said, you "might" be town, because I was trying to make a decision between you and Hiraki under the assumption there was only one scum left, and that QT statement was enough for me to warrant my case building on Hiraki yesterday.

[Toogeloo]

I spent the night wondering which of me or PV were going to be killed, because we were both confirmed town. My first post of the day was written from my thoughts overnight, in which I note how both PV and I are confirmed. I'm confirmed town without a night action, and I'm thinking about who is confirmed town. So this argument is crap.

The thing is that you WEREN'T confirmed town... we had just had a lynch on a grey player, and even PV was suspected two scumteams of two in the QT last night, so there's no way you were confirmed town. From your perspective, yes, you know your alignment and you know PV is town. From my alignment, only PV was hardcore confirmed town. Because that's how a townie should think. After Nero flipped, THEN you were confirmed town to anyone who isn't YOU.

Again...

YOU'VE DESTROYED THE LAST OF THE THORIAN. SAREN'S WEAPON WAS WEAK, AND POORLY DESIGNED. YOU WILL FIND MY LAST ASSASSIN TO BE FAR MORE POWERFUL.

We just killed Hiraki, and it says, "you killed the last of the Thorian." There is a team of 3 and an independent. Reading is fundamental (granted, it's all meta based on flavor though).

[Toogeloo]

I'd like you to explain, in you infinite wisdom, Reck, why, as scum, I would build a case on my buddy Ghost on Day 1, and then bus him within moments of Day 2 starting, without him having a single other vote in the game, and without using the acronym WIFOM in your case. Explain the scum thought process in this scenario.

[Toogeloo]

Reck is really laying the AtE on thick these last few posts.

Can we please be done with this game, I am going V/LA next week and would prefer we still weren't sitting around bickering.

[Toogeloo]

Getting this stupid conspiracy theory forming in my head that Hiraki was an odd night Serial Killer, which if true means scum win regardless.

Some one just end this game so we can determine if scum wins or not. I will not be playing Mafia from the 24th to the 29th, so let's finish this. If Reck really is town, I need enough time to vote myself when the new day goes up.

[Toogeloo]

Wow... Jason, that is terrible.

Jason did ?????

Jason did nothing last night, my ability was one shot and I used it on N1 with the Nintendo kill.

Word of warning, mislynch today, and tomorrow is Mislynch and Lose for town.

I am confident in Reck flipping scum and am prepared to vote him when I return from my V/LA tomorrow night or Sunday.

I only popped on to check up on my modded games.

In fact your entire ISO is about lynching Reck.




Reck, you might have just been right about Jason. He mislynches me today, and you are an easy mislynch tomorrow if he is scum due to all the fighting back and forth today between us. His train of thought to vote you for the last 2 weeks to all of a sudden vote me today is just bad. Oh well, we made our beds Reck. Let's sleep in em I guess.

[Toogeloo]

Fuck it...

I'm willing to drink Reck's tea.

Unvote;
Vote: Jason

I also release you from the 1v1 agreement if I get lynched today Reck. If you get lynched, I will still adhere to my part of the agreement, but if I get lynched, I want you to lynch Jason. His vote on me was even worse than yours was.

[Toogeloo]

You only came up with the "I'm Torn" thing today. You didn't even give a reason why I am scummy, you just said my defense was the same as Reck's.

You lynching me today gets the harder lynch out of the way for an easier LyLo tomorrow is my theory. Fuck this day is too goddamn long.

[Toogeloo]

I don't even have a fucking clue how I got suspicion in the first place. Paranoia that I would bus Ghost starting on Day 1 is a stupid ass reason to think I am scum. I was apparently even "confirmed" yesterday. Today turns into an OMGUSfest between me and Reck. Reck and I constitute 90% of today's conversation of just bickering as well. You Peanuts should have voted by now if you weren't really going to try and present arguments of your own.


PEDIT: Up until Jason's shitty ass vote with no real substance behind it, I was sure you are. Now I really don't care anymore and am marking you both as 50/50.

[Toogeloo]

Jason for the fence sitting followed by the vote on me would put him slightly ahead of you. The fence sitting by itself is terrible.

[Toogeloo]

I'm likely not dying today since Rhinox has mentioned he will use his Governor on me if I were lynched.

[Toogeloo]

And fuck you and your shenanigans. My argument was thought out.

You have bitched and moaned that my play has been shit all day, but I haven't anything remotely wrong in my scum hunting. You are just butt hurt that I voted you and you OMGUS shoved it down everyone's throat.


My game has been just fine. I was responsible for Ghost's lynch Day 2, and assisted in taking down Hiraki yesterday. Just because you haven't done shit all game and then get voted by someone you don't really care for due to history, doesn't make my play any less substantial. Your argument all day has been "Toogeloo is terrible," and "His argument is shit." You've called me retarded previously, and just insulted my intelligence in about every game we've played since your WoW Mafia travesty. I am not going to stand by your insults that my play has been terrible because has been a freaking glaring awesome light of play versus the shit you've done this game.

[Toogeloo]

Anyways, I am done with this day.

Who ever has the most votes between Reck and Jason gets my vote. I'm depending on Rhinox and PV to do a little work, and whoever they want to lynch between those two gets my vote. If they choose me, fuck it. You guys sort it out tomorrow, guarantee it'll be between Reck and Jason, Rhinox will probably be dead, and PV wont give a shit.

Unvote

[Toogeloo]

I also release you from the 1v1 agreement if I get lynched today Reck.

If you get lynched, I will still adhere to my part of the agreement,

but if I get lynched, I want you to lynch Jason. His vote on me was even worse than yours was.

[Toogeloo]

For the record. You have zero interest in lynching Jason today, Reck?

[Toogeloo]

I got the impression it was all a facade to AtE. Last scum putting themselves at L-1 is more than enough to give anyone pause. With our inactivity, I doubt you were even worried about it.

[Toogeloo]

...so now you think it was a facade from scum?

Make up your damn mind.

As in... at the time you did it, that was the impression I got. Hell, you're still 50/50 in my book, but I'm more or less done with this game due to lack of interest from 3 other players, and can't be bothered to argue about it anymore. Let PV and Rhinox get in here at their leisure I suppose and we'll just see where the chips lie.

[Toogeloo]

lynch jason today, lynch him tomorrow.

Never agreed to this btw.

[Toogeloo]

Reck, stop trying to control everyone. You don't get to ride through the game doing nothing only to get to today and direct traffic.

[Toogeloo]

read the part I quoted blind man.

[Toogeloo]

It's not that we are in a hurry, it's just exhausting bickering with Reck for the last week and a half or whatever it's been with little input from the remaining player base. Just felt like people have been happy to let Reck and I quarrel.

[Toogeloo]

No, #1 implies that if I die, I don't give a shit anymore, and that people can do whatever the fuck they please.

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: #2 implies rather...

[Toogeloo]

If I die first, over you or Jason, it's the worst lynch of all time. I simply didn't care anymore if you upheld your part of the agreement, because Jason's vote infuriated me.

[Toogeloo]

For the record, there has not been an actual case on me other than paranoia filled OMGUS from Reck and a fence-sitting vote from Jason who's only back up to his vote comes from Day 1's exit from the RVS stage.

[Toogeloo]

And now we're back to this song and dance.

Admit your case has no merit other than "gut" and "paranoia" unless I missed evidence somewhere.

At any rate...

Vote: Jason

Will leave this to Rhinox. And if Jason is town, we

will

be back to this song and dance tomorrow.

[Toogeloo]

If I am scum, Jason is town... so me diverting a lynch from Town to scum... is scummy?

[Toogeloo]

Me diverting from Jason to Hiraki... how is that scummy? Hiraki FLIPPED SCUM.

[Toogeloo]

I voted 4 times on Day 1.

Rhinox - Because I was paranoid of Scum Governor.
Silent Wraith - I was supporting Sathoris' case against someone who looked scummy.
Reck - Because you pissed me off to the point that I wanted to 1v1 with you.
Ghost - Ended the day on Ghost because I didn't like his background assault on nintendo.

Day 2, I immediately pop in with a Ghost incrimination post which leads to his lynch.

Day 3 was all Amrun.

Day 4, I assisted in taking down Hiraki.


How do these actions make me scum?

[Toogeloo]

Scum is any anti-town faction, so yes. I am calling Hiraki scum.

Third Party is Scum
Mafia is Scum

[Toogeloo]

http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Scum

[Toogeloo]

You do realize you wont be around tomorrow to make sure that Reck is lynched. Peregrine will be, and he voted Jason today.

This game is only 41 pages in entirety. Seriously... reread the entire game and tell me that I am scum. Don't be lazy.

[Toogeloo]

Jason and toog are both L-1 it seems.

This is a very good point:

with 1 scum left, what reason would I have as scum, to hold off lynching Reck? I could have easily hammered him and took it to night looking to lynch you tomorrow after your 1vs1 knowing both would flip town and I would win as scum.

Which is why I'm probably going to hammer toog and if toog isn't scum reck is getting lynched tomorrow.

Anyone have anything else to say before hammer?

As for your point, I already addressed why he would want me gone first. In a final 3, Reck would be easier to lynch than I would be. If you look at the flow of events today, Reck was looking to be the clear choice for lynching. You (Rhinox) were counter arguing him and stated you would govern me, PV didn't seem interested in me, Jason pops in and says he was leaning voting for Reck. With enough support to potentially lynch Reck, the logic is that Reck could still be viable if he were lynched tomorrow. So Jason comes in and does a complete 180 and votes me. This is why I lean Jason slightly scummier than Reck at the moment. If he can get me mislynched, he has a better shot tomorrow.

If he went into a LyLo with me, his odds would probably be worse due to the support I had at the beginning of today.


Rhinox, do you honestly believe I am scum, or do you just think I am a better lynch than Jason?

[Toogeloo]

Plus, if Reck is town and Jason scum, how bad would Jason look for hammering a town that put himself at L-1?

[Toogeloo]

Getting this stupid conspiracy theory forming in my head that Hiraki was an odd night Serial Killer, which if true means scum win regardless.

I want to also explain this in the event that I am hammered.

Since hosts are being quite cryptic with the flips (ie, we don't actually know what kind of independent Hiraki was), he could have killed Amrun on Night 3 and PV could be the final scum. That is why I stated that if Hiraki is an odd-night Serial Killer, we lose anyways, because no one is going to go after PV after we confirmed him via being roleblocked and a kill happening. With everyone offering themselves in 1v1, self hammerings, and what not... how can I not be paranoid about something like that.

Personally, Jason's play has been the worst today in my opinion, and I will not be getting off of him. If it gets to Reck and Jason in LyLo, it may as well be a coin flip imo, and I would not be terribly surprised on who ever of the remaining players flips scum, as I could see a reason for each.

With that, I am going on vacation tomorrow until the 29th. I will be busy packing and such for the next few hours, and then I will be VERY limited access for the next 5-6 days. Whatever happens, que sera sera.

[Toogeloo]

Well, I was trying to figure out the Night 1 extra kill as that makes the least amount of sense in the game. GhostWriter's lynching, he wanted to be spared to ID the Serial Killer, which gave me pause thinking maybe they really had no idea what happened to SpyreX.

PV's Vig gift to me disappeared on that night, which I suspect was SpyreX switching places with me, and it died with him. So I tried to figure out who would want me dead since a switch would mean I would have been the original target of the kill if true. But that also means that Hiraki would be able to shoot through Roleblocking, and only shoot on Odd Nights (since he was tracked no where Night 2 and there was no kill Night 2, so he isn't a ninja).

If SpyreX decided to try and Vig instead of Bus, then that would require nintendo to have redirected SpyreX onto himself. But then, that doesn't explain the missing Vig Gift. So I came full circle back to thinking Hiraki shot at me on Night 1, but I was bussed with SpyreX. So either Amrun lied about being roleblocked, or Hiraki can shoot through being blocked, but can only shoot on odd nights.


But now that I think on it, if Hiraki could shoot through Roleblocks, why would he kill Amrun?


Night 1 is the biggest mystery still. Hence the conspiracy theorycraft. It's not really anything we can afford to concern ourselves with, because it will do more harm than good to try and guess through it, but I wanted to explain my thought process. Small town seems to play more on the logic game of figuring out the night actions processes, and that Night still eludes me.

[Toogeloo]

Simple [unofficial] Vote Count is:

Jason - Toog, PV
Toog - Jason, Reck

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP: Actually Toog would come after PV on the Jason votes, since I unvoted and then revoted when PV got on Jason.

[Toogeloo]

It's not really anything we can afford to concern ourselves with, because it will do more harm than good to try and guess through itIt's not really anything we can afford to concern ourselves with, because it will do more harm than good to try and guess through it

[Toogeloo]

Gone until the 29th on Vacation.

[Toogeloo]

If it came down to Reck, PV, and I in the final 3, I hesitate to think PV would have instantly won. I was starting to put it together, and Reck was starting to get the suspicion as well. We very well could have taken a leap of faith on a hunch.

Still, I voted draw because at any point a mod error causes the game to play out in an unintended manner, the game is automatically tainted.