Strategy Mafia (Town Victory!)

[Plum]

Okay, have skimmed the thread and will probably be attempting a reread-and-analysis proper soon. For now I have no plans to move or be moved (though if it ever comes to it I've been told that I'm fairly easy to read as Town, but Fate will no doubt enjoy doing that himself without the aid of the Secluded Villa, as fun as it sounds).

Mod: What happens if a player enters the Move Checker room Round 9, chooses player A to check moves, and is himself moved from the Move Checker room during Round 10? Will the player in question see information regarding player A's moves during Round 10?

Switch player can be publicly checked. Move Checker

cannot

be. Thus we need the most trustworthy player we can get in there as a general disincentive for Mafia to move privately; it will also help us pinpoint Mafia free moves as such, should that be necessary. It helps keep up organization and keep scum in line, but only if the Move Checker player is Town and reporting properly.

We also need a trustworthy person in the Security Room

at Night

, and scum have two free moves Round 14. If scum secretly try to move our choice into the Electric Chair room during a Round with a free move - hmm. They'd be playing with WIFOM just doing that, but Hito is right about not going to Round 10 and above.

Filling campfire is actually very dangerous because it will let scum easily fire tipping point first thing in the morning.
So lets not do that.

Not too worried about that with public moves and Tipping Point kept on the off-limits list. Filling Campfire is optimal. Hmm. I wish I could see where the bloody doors are. I only see two but apparently I'm missing something. Oh bah, they're

everywhere

? Okay then.

My burn all the chips idea wasn't good though because we need spare chips to force through things we want to happen when scum does inevitably interfere.

I have some reasonably strong town reads already, what about allowing those some wiggle room but letting other people burn their chits? I.e. if we keep a large enough of people with wiggle room we can offset the scums plans. I suppose it depends on people co-operating.

Certainly many players should be forced to burn chits, and those who haven't as we get on to Rounds 7+ should be scrutinized. It would be better, I think, to make the more suspicious players burn their chits on moves we ask of them in terms of moving

themselves

until they're where we want them (Campfire, possibly Nexus depending, &c.) and leave other players who have chits left to keep everyone where they should be. I think. It will again be much easier to use this strategy to keep players in line if we don't go to Round 10.

Reck is being belligerent. Huh?

Um who the fuck said you three were town anyway

Huh??? And complaining against the super Neighborhood Villa when it was the sort of thing so basic it was discussed in the signup thread? But anyway, his attempt to discredit the value of the Villa by framing it as them coming up with a plan we are all expected to trust is yeah. Weird, off, scummy enough to count as such.

What the hell are Maru and Klazam doing moving each other around now?

Klazam, we

want

people in the tipping point, that way we can lock them of in there using the door controller and if anything happens we get confirmed mafia (The people in tipping point), if nothing happens then no harm no foul.

No.

If there are players in there Mafia can spam people from . . . hm. It would be a little difficult but it might work, if we evacuate the Campfire &c. early in the Day so we don't run the risk of Mafia spamming more players in there. It would be a bit of a pain. But it brings up a good point; it would be nice to lock Tipping Point off at Night if possible, I think, so Llama's concern about spamming (which perhaps I dismissed a little too lightly?) will be completely taken care of. The thing you mention might be a nice side benefit, but frankly I'm not sure I'm interested in risking that direction being somewhere people are allowed to go. At least not today; reevaluation for later game Days may happen.

Klazam, we

want

people in the

tipping point

switch, that way we can lock them of in there using the door controller and if anything happens we get confirmed mafia (The people in

tipping point

switch), if nothing happens then no harm no foul.

I don't even know where you brought up the tipping point from we were discussing the switch previously. The tipping room does need to be locked of though to prevent mafia moving there from the campfire. Saying that the potion room can be abused by mafia incredibly stupid, it can also be highly beneficial for town and that's why we would stick our town-reads in there.

Switch is three doors to lock. That's a lot of chits spent &c. Potions room can be too easily be abused by Mafia at this point. Allowing anyone to go there isn't happening yet.

Klazam, we

want

people in the

tipping point

switch, that way we can lock them of in there using the door controller and if anything happens we get confirmed mafia (The people in

tipping point

switch), if nothing happens then no harm no foul.

I don't even know where you brought up the tipping point from we were discussing the switch previously. The tipping room does need to be locked of though to prevent mafia moving there from the campfire. Saying that the potion room can be abused by mafia incredibly stupid, it can also be highly beneficial for town and that's why we would stick our town-reads in there.

Nexus???

I think LB and I should move each-other to Rageatorium. And Andrius and someone else should do the same. R2 or thereabouts we can get Fate/xRx/whoever those two can read well into the Rageatorium. Then we can do a little dance around door, rage, villa that is awesome and wonderful.

Hey, Andrius???

YOU ARE POSTING PAGES WORTH WHILE I'M TRUDING THROUGH THIS, AREN'T YOU? There are now ten pages. Yeah.

I don't want to play "not sure if scum or telling the truth" with that business. I suppose I could relent with someone who is, alignment independent, very consistent. But I do NOT want to deal with that kind of situation, and the absolute safest way is to try to get a townie on door control.

Fair enough; I was possibly too easygoing about this previous.

Reg is probtown for the strategy. Which I barely skimmed. It doesn't look like anything that wouldn't fall to pieces, but it's not some subtle attempt to nudge us towards a plan of action which has quiet little holes in it. It seems sincere.

However regarding Door Controller above, Maru looks trustworthy and active enough for me. I guess I'm praising him for not having enough of a life (though frankly I subscribed to a similar regiment for my homework in high school).

Why is Klaz going to Move Checker?

VOTE: Reck Read Post #217. Then vote.

Can I got to the Ragetorium today, or am I not wanted there/needed elsewhere?

[Plum]

Reck - me?

[Plum]

Also the way you framed the Villa discussion in general - not only was it basic, in the sense that use as a Neighborhood was the first thing to be discussed when signups were filled, whether or not you were there, you framed the early plans for Villa-talk as conspiracy in the worst way.

Oh okay.

And yes, I want a SDC villa so we can QTrage

Stupid question, but is there a reason we can't just do the following:

-hito, Andrius, and LB move to Villa (within two or three rounds).
-We stay there for however many rounds it takes to strategize or communicate information or strategize.
-One of us moves to the door and unlocks it. (Disclaimer: I think I misunderstood how the door works. Let me PM zoraster.)
-A fourth player then joins to hear hito's plan.
-etc.

Zoraster: will all visitors to the Villa be able to read whatever posts were made before in the QT, for the rest of the game? Is there a new QT made every time a new arrival shows up?

Also, LLD, like Faraday said, why didn't you find Llamarble's similar stances townish? He also locked himself into a position.

This would work like gold.
Buried gold.
BUT YES 110% BAKER APPROVAL.

And yes the QT question would be awesome.

Sorry ok ill go do ACCT now and stop posting..



maybe.

Um who the fuck said you three were town anyway

So you guys are going to go to SEEKRIT VILLA and devise a huge plan for town to follow and we're just supposed to trust the three of you

nah

Dislike

-hito, Andrius, and LB move to Villa (within two or three rounds).
-We stay there for however many rounds it takes to strategize or communicate information or strategize.
-One of us moves to the door and unlocks it. (Disclaimer: I think I misunderstood how the door works. Let me PM zoraster.)
-A fourth player then joins to hear hito's plan.(Disclaimer: I think I misunderstood how the door works. Let me PM zoraster.)-A fourth player then joins to hear hito's plan.

this?

yeah, that. so why are implying the plan is some sort of EXCLUSIVE CLUB thing when it can be told to anyone? i mean i'm not even sure what your problem is with 3 people going to a qt to talk is when you want to do the exact same fucking thing?

there's not gonna be some sort of TELL EVERYONE WHERE TO GO shit as it won't work in this set-up afaict, but we can use the mechanics to our advantage.

Your train of thought and your attempt to discredit the Villa plan with LB, hito, and Andrius is completely disingenuous and was clearly baseless, clearly bad. And pretty scummy.

[quote="xRECKONER]- I see the value in trios of people who can read each other well being in the Villa, but

I can also see how three people who know each other so well could easily use the Villa to pull the wool over the eyes of others

.[/quote]

- While I get Maruchan wants to go to door control, I'd prefer to be there or the Villa so that I can just do what people tell me to

or have SEEKRIT TEE HEE QT with SDC peeps

.

OH AND SDC WOULDN''T PULL THE WOOL OVER EYES OF OTHERS? I mean seriously, do I have to frrakking explain this one and how disingenuous you're being?

- Regarding "rocking in QTs", I think Team Mafia proves Fate & I can handle ourselves quite well in a private QT.

Nice try, but the above stands.

Jesus, I'm gone for a few hours and come back to pages. Quick thoughts:

- I have no problem with Maruchan moving to door control and staying there.

- While I get Maruchan wants to go to door control, I'd prefer to be there or the Villa so that I can just do what people tell me to or have SEEKRIT TEE HEE QT with SDC peeps.

Jump on the Maru love but try to get in there with a 'so I can just do whatever you ask me like a good Townie puppy' when Maru is so awesome? Really? Just begging for a place where you can try to earn some cheap Towncred? At least Maru was being pretty face-value about what was going on.

His

desire to go didn't seem scummy. Yours does.

- hitogoroshi is town as fuck.

How original. So why don't you like his plan for Ragetorium/Villla use, eh?

- I'm starting to go braindead from the planning and stuff. I'm NOT good with statistics or probabilities or putting plans into motion and perhaps I don't QUITE grasp the intricate details of what we're trying to set up, so I think it's better I sit back and try and see who I agree with on a fundamental level. Like, I'm skipping over Regfan's #153 entirely because it all looks like gibberish.

Whatever. Your other bit to Fate 'Just try to gambit if you're scum!' were just saying a lot and doing nothing.

Amrun - I'd like to go to the rage because it looked like someone was wanted under Hito's plan to cycle through it and the Villa to complement Andrius, and I'd be fine with that. I like Andrius and I think I'd be decent at reading him.

[Plum]

Ignore me or not. I'm not ignoring you.

[Plum]

@ Plum -

I don't think the risks in locking players inside the tipping point are that severe, especially considering we have control of move checker though I do agree that it doesn't have to be

right now

and we should be very careful to do it correctly when we do it. I'm actually interested in your reads outside of Reck.

We're

assuming

we have control of Move Checker. I wouldn't bet everything on the notion that we'll always have a Townie in there.

Reads: Maru's Town, Feysal is pretty Town LB's townish, hito's townish, Andrius is townish. Amrun is scummish. LLD is looking slightly Town by the last page and a bit, but I might be being buddied at (the heck, would LLD do that??? I dunno), Llamarble is ehhhhh, possibly leaning slightly scum. Lots of Townreads and I'm probably wrong somewhere, but it's mostly been STRATEGIZING, so.

It's to make a point: you are not obvtown.

X

+1

[Plum]

Hey. There's a lot to catch up on quite now, no access since Friday and trying to watch Doctor Who - in short, shall I be moving myself to the Villa?

[Plum]

Andrius to Secluded Villa.

#MOVE

Player to Move:

Andrius

Room to move to:

Secluded Villa

Insurance:

No

[Plum]

Trying to do a read of everything since way back, or at least chip away at it.

Tclawren goes from voting Amrun (which I certainly don't disapprove of) to 'ohmy LLD is scummy I could maybe take a ride on that wagon' in one fell swoop - frankly, though, the only thing that gets me here is 'might join wagon later', that phrase, verbatim, and I'm not sure how alignment-indicative it is. The rest of Tclawren's stuff to that point was neutral/decent looking. Curiously, I dislike at least as much Amrun's post Post #301. As opposed to what looks like rather transparent proto-opportunism on Tclawren's part (which I won't deny is not the sort of thing that sits

well

with me), it asks the super obvious questions LLD has already posed in what looks like an attempt to look like proactive, aggressive Town -

And WHY is LLD scummy? Why not join now? What wagon are you currently on that is better?

Then Amrun dismisses a

good

observation of Tclawren's regarding Maru's scumhunting vs. iamausername, then turns to get on the easy wagon and get on the good sides of everyone he's turned off by OBLIQUELY voting Maru and see-saw suspecting him with

P sure tclawren is scum now. That oblique approach to LLD is scummy as hell.

REVERSE READ OF LLD GO

VOTE: tclawren

THIS is manipulative, opportunistic. Scummy as hell. Amrun is

much

scummier than Tclawren. MUCH. Klaz's Tclawren vote is okay, though, I guess. It's thoroughly MEH.

Plum, so you're voting Reck because of the "villa is dumb but SDC should be all up in it?" deal right?

Andrius of all people I'd expect to be able to read my posts and understand them, not that that's hard to do. But tell me, Andrius, why do you feel you have to ask?

My internet just went down but I have page 14 still open and this tab as well, so while I can't link Amrun's Post #344 or fully put it in the context it needs with Amrun's ISO . . .

LB: "wagon" was in quotes for a reason. I meant that I didn't like the number of people who had expressed suspicion of LLD, often for little reasoning. It's all over the board.

Your vote is fine, for example, but in pregame, I remember it just kind of being decided lld was scum and I didn't know why. I couldn't decide if my gut lean was just subconscious sheeping or if I really saw something too.

In any case, I don't know what exactly makes LLD so scummy that she's "obvscum."

Tcllawren's oblique attack basically made it so I won't support lld's death unless tclaw flips town. If tclaw is scum as I suspect, I don't think that was a bus.

The last line alone is blatantly scummy - it screams setting up lynches, it all but says straight out 'when Tclawren flips Town I'd support death for LLD'. And why? Aside from the fact that (internet comes back!) I have no idea why that sort of attack wouldn't be a bus - So scum-Tclawren means Town-LLD, but is Tclawren were Town that sort of oblique attack suddenly becomes valid?

Oh, here's the context, mostly:

Oh, I forgot. I lean scum a little on LLD, but it's gut and no reasoning and I don't think she is obvscum and the speed of her "wagon" concerns me.

Whatever - the whole post turns on reiterating the Tclawren-scum reasoning and twisting around LLD. Scummily. In factt, Amrun has more than once gone 'he/she looks a little scummy/fluffy . . . but I really couldn't say'. Uh huh. LLD, Maru, Andrius. Throwing around whatever psudeo-suspicions he can and seeing what he can get away with, almost looks like.

This was

just about

at the upper limit of what I'm willing to reread after ONE NIGHT OF SLEEP. *sigh*

Nothing new to comment on, anyway. The Lost Butterfly hydra is making my scumdar ping but I think that's more paranoia in my belly than anything concrete.

I can ALWAYS join a LLD wagon, but something about this one screams "too easy".

Wow. Just a fountain of enlightenment, you.

Tclawren's Post #374 is good. Town mindset, it suggests, if not extremely strongly.

Oh how much I've wanted to catch Magua-scum in the past and this is finally my chance. Tcl-Scum gets to live another day it seems courtesty of his teammate

You've managed to negate and to some degree reverse the Townread I had on you with just these two sentences. Congratulations. Takes talent. To be frank I'm barely skimming the further exchanges between Reg and Magua now.

FATE needs to DO SOME DAMN SCUMHUNTING.

I'm not liking tcl's scumminess. I also don't like how he thinks I'm town. No one hardly ever thinks I'm town.

And now I'm doubting it too.

Speaking of which...you know how we said Andrius was painfully easy to read? Trust me. Andrius is town. The rambling catch-up posts are completely in character for his town post.

Probably

. If he were scum, at least, I think he'd be more likely to be scared of being stuck in the Villa with people trying to read him and would try to demure. The rambling catchup posts, as someone who does it herself, are generally easier and more comfortable and more casual as Town.

Iam's NS vote - see his full Post #468makes him the scummier. Because it's opportunism. It's a low blow, trying to peel apart one mediocre post by NS, who has a talent for looking scummy, and turn it into something resembling scumhunting. But here's what: No comment on anyone else? Masquing as

actual

scumhunting effort with all the questions at NS, but nary a comment on anyone else, any thornier issue. He's taking the fakeable-as-scum route and dressing it up Scum, please.

Tcllawren's oblique attack basically made it so I won't support lld's death unless tclaw flips town. If tclaw is scum as I suspect, I don't think that was a bus.

This is soooo much scum. Chaining lynches like a mofo.

Also, btw, this is the opposite of chaining lynches.

I am saying I will not lynch LLD before you, given the choice. If you are scum, LLD is town. If you are town, your alignment has no bearing on LLD's alignment and she can be evaluated more individually.

I see this and raise you not caring, really. There's making assumptions regarding alignment based on multiple-player interactions, and then there are excuses for messing around with previously stated reads so you can flip stances how you please.

iamausername is still scum

VOTE: Nobody Special

Seriously, try to justify this post, I dare you,,

absolutely nothing about "why would scum-ns to be motivated to post something like this?" and everything about "wow I bet he can't justify that! yay!" = lurkerscum looking for something indefensible instead of looking for scum

THAT

.

I want to send Maruchan to the potions room.
This would be a major departure from current strategy, but I think we can do that and war room me and security room Feysal and move checker Klazam.
Which would add up to a lot of good things going on for town.

No, I don't think so. We

could

send him to the Panic Room. I'd be happy with that.

Someone would need to send an insured Andrius move in then to beat Plum. Or -- better plan -- Plum can move herself to the Party, then her move to the villa would be invalid.

Sorry for the mixup on my part last night; didn't know when round deadline was, picked a move off the list like I was told was the plan, &c. Shall I do as per the above, then?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: iamausername

Other scum - Soda reasonably likely, Amrun likewise likely.

[Plum]

Uh huh. Can I trouble you for a brief explanation why, pray?

[Plum]

Scum.
Scumwalls.
Going through motions.
I should meta you.

Yeah, you ought to. I wallpost and wallcatchup as any alignment. Going through motions is a vague, gut-y accusation; if you specify what's wrong we can discuss it, but you know.

To be frank I'm barely skimming the further exchanges between Reg and Magua now.

I'm getting fucking sick and tired of seeing

everyone

say that they're skimming the exchange. If it was a few pages long of walling then sure it would be understandable to some degree but it's not and the exchange and interaction should make it abundantly obvious that Magua is mafia.

I'll try to get to it tonight. I'd probably have spent more time and attention on it had I not been doing a very long read; this came maybe ten pages in, so you see.

[Plum]

Scum Reads (Strongest to weakest)- Plum (Lack of scumhunting, dancing around Magua yesterday, lack of moves ect.)

I

did

actually do a deeper discussion of you vs. Magua in the Villa thread yesterday. Andrius and/or Hito should be able to confirm that and confirm what I said about it (which basically amounted to the fact that your concern that people read and care about the you vs. Magua exchange was a Towntell on your part and Magua's lack thereof didn't reflect well on him; further that looking at Magua he parroted the people-read-one-another-in-the-Villa idea as a good one but showed no interest in participating, which also seemed to reflect badly on him.

I've been doing skimming the thread because currently the library is closed until noon and I'm sitting

outside

the damn library to use their internet. It's pathetic and it isn't very convenient.

If I'm in Door Control, are there any Doors that need opening or closing ASAP?

VOTE: Soda

By the way, Soda, LB wanted me to tell you that they called you a freaking clown. In slightly worse language.

Ugh keep saying that to yourself coz I already defended myself.

Besides do you really think I would have pulled the switch on the scum partner I KNEW was scum if I was scum? lolno.

That's why I'm town that's why you're mistaken, that's why it's time to get rid of Tclaw and maybe eventually later Llama.

If I hadn't had a scumread on Soda before, this. Disregarding the initial reluctance to use the Chair on investigated Magua-scum, it's still far from anything Town-confirming. And with that defense, put Llama who

claimed the investigation that sealed Magua's doom, Chair or no

on his hit list? No. Just no.

I don't know. What do you believe it for you to be. Sounds pretty townish, but still you could have bussed him. Only you know, if you believe that you absolutely caught scum, then you claim that and that should make you appear town. It's only up to the players to decipher the alignment.

Lolwhat?

I'm not sure if I appreciate this Plum wagon. I want to think he's scum, but that isn't working..

. . .

(also I'm a girl)

More later.

[Plum]

I have a game to open, so two quick questions:

1. Do any Doors need opening/closing?
2. Apparently in one of the rounds where bad things went down yesterday Amrun made a move that someone said made it likely he was Town. I'll try to look it up later properly, but if anyone can make a quick handy reference to that for me I'd appreciate it, because I've had a longstanding scumread on Amrun and relevant info would help me contextualize the read with some of the important moves and make better judgments on that count.

[Plum]

Close the door between Nexus and Ragetorium (also insured for preventing tipping point)

WILL DO.

[Plum]

It's done and confirmed with the Mod.

[Plum]

Plum locking me in here would be good too.

Do I have an official order here? I'll do it. I also need to read up, and I apologize; this weekend was busier than I'd thought it might be.

[Plum]

Panic Room door should be closed but I don't have much more time right now.

[Plum]

I'll try that.

[Plum]

Do we need a Door motion tonight? I do plan a meaningful post, but before deadline hits and all.

[Plum]

No, Zajnet . . . he's the only one from the Iam wagon I

don't

have a strong Townread on.

Elli. Your read of me now. Answer in a well-reasoned paragraph.

Baby Spice is probably a better lynch than Tclawren.

Yes this was my content post today.

[Plum]

Oh, and yes, I sent the order for that Door Close but no actual Mod confirmation there yet.