PYP 5: Democracy Ho! (Game)

[implosion]

VOTE: Reck

[implosion]

Can we wagon katsuki?

[implosion]

Yay.

[implosion]

No.

[implosion]

Two scum found.
Mind as well follow Chamber.

UNVOTE, VOTE: IMPLOSION

Who other than me are you talking about?

[implosion]

Hoopla? How can hoopla be found scum if hoopla hasn't posted?

[implosion]

Unvote, vote: Katsuki

[implosion]

VOTE: maruchan

[implosion]

You had one shot and you wasted it on the other vig. ONE SHOT, WASTED.


If you are town, holy shit.

yes cuz i knew he was vig beforehand

it's called "asking for a claim before you blindly shoot someone that everyone else in the game is calling town."

[implosion]

Parama, its your fault for not answering my question.

oh my god you can't be fucking serious

you vig someone

without a claim

because no one told you who they thought was scum
because they voted you
with no other reasons
6 pages into a game
and you're claiming to be town

[implosion]

and blaming it on someone else for not answering your quesiton

[implosion]

I love how one game makes me the worst player alive.

it doesn't
you aren't town

[implosion]

You're stupider than DMSIS. It's official. We have a new king, folks.

You're stupider than DMSIS. It's official. We have a new king, folks.

You're stupider than DMSIS. It's official. We have a new king, folks.

You're stupider than DMSIS. It's official. We have a new king, folks.

You're stupider than DMSIS. It's official. We have a new king, folks.

is it bad if i'm enjoying clicking the quote button on this post more every time i click it

[implosion]

VOTE: DAVID XANATOS
I TRACKED HIM TO CHAMBER
CHAMBER CLAIMED SELF-PROTECT
PROFIT
STOP THIS NONSENSE ABOUT VOTING SOMEONE ELSE KTHXBAI

[implosion]

Tracker A, by the way.

[implosion]

parama is town and people who are questioning that are stupid, by the way.

[implosion]

And you didn't consider the fact I was doing something else?

You could have, but occam's razor dictated that if the person who i thought was scum if maruchan flipped town visited the person who claimed selfprotect = they tried to kill that person

claim.

[implosion]

did you investigate chamber;
why did you investigate chamber?

[implosion]

It's a reason, just because you think its a bad one doesn't change that. I'm just going to get shot again tonight and I already used my self protect, so I don't need excuses anyway.

[implosion]

yeeeeeeeeaaaaah. i don't buy it.

[implosion]

also, i briefly considered a "claim or die" method, but it would have made me as tracker or watcher kind of obvious given the setup being semi-open. I can't think of any other role (except maybe role cop, but they'd have no desire to make the role public) that would do that.

Which would have made fakeclaiming easy.

[implosion]

Why were you seemingly suspicious of me for my Nocmen vote if you had an innocent on me?

Oh wow... this is gold. Didn't even see that.

[implosion]

so you're a gunsmith who i thought was scummy yesterday before tracking you, who got an innocent on someone who just happened to have self-protected, didn't breadcrumb that result, and then implied that your innocent was scummy without really pushing him to "see who would jump on," when a gunsmith would know with 100% certainty that their result was town, and would certainly differentiate between them and other people when talking, pushing and discussing.

Something about this makes me think that you're scum; can't put my finger on it.

[implosion]

Occam's razor.

[implosion]

also seraphim probably isn't bussing right now

[implosion]

I'm mentioning occam's razor because i thought you were scum

before

i tracked you. That's kind of, y'know, why i tracked you.

I'd go into a big argument right now, but it's much easier to just wait for the wagon to get to however many people so you can die. so. yeah.

[implosion]

um why are we just dismissing the gunsmith claim so easily
srs question

Sheeping CES who you think is bussing? o_0

That's not a reason, that's an excuse. You're palming off responsibility for your vote..

And then he claimed an innocent report on said chamber.

psychologically, a real gunsmith would have their night result in mind while replying to the person they investigated (especially since there are no false negatives in the setup except potentially the redirector which would be unlikely as hell) when they posted, and wouldn't implicate him.

But DX claimed gunsmith either because his team has the GS / he wants to out the GS / he was forced to claim something and didn't think about what he had said earlier.

[implosion]

Also, i like how he's calling me scummy for pushing on the person who i tracked to someone who selfprotected on a night with no kill.

[implosion]

And Implosion, you're dismissing a claim offhand because you can't be arsed thinking through the nature of your role. You know that if you'd told me to claim without revealing your role, you'd have gotten better information, and now you're trying to cover up the fact you fucked up by waiting for the quicklynch.

I know the nature of my role. I understand that in theory it is possible that another person could have killed chamber or there could be another reason for the lack of a kill.

I explained why i wouldn't have gotten any better information with a "claim or die" method in some post.
I explained why you are scum in 333.
You aren't town. Theory is not practice.

[implosion]

so david xanatos didn't read my post where i EXPLICITLY SAID that a rolecop would have no reason to do a claim or die method; tracker and watcher are functionally equivalent in terms of what you'd claim to not be confirmed scum. You claim some random role, depending on what you want to do with your probably dying breath, that visited the person that you really visited.

I did think before typing; i

explicitly said

that i considered it before claiming. You're reaching for something that you can do to try to swing the lynch on me, and i honestly shouldn't even respond to you because i don't need to because you are being lynched.

[implosion]

also, i briefly considered a "claim or die" method, but it would have made me as tracker or watcher kind of obvious given the setup being semi-open. I can't think of any other role (except maybe role cop, but they'd have no desire to make the role public) that would do that.

Which would have made fakeclaiming easy.

[implosion]

Role Cop could easily do so, especially if they only won that role. Scum are liable to lie about roles if they can, simply to avoid having to claim results that could be used to assist a buddy later in the game.

no. a town role cop would have no reason to tell someone to claim or die; it needlessly outs a claim if their target was town, and doesn't even necessarily catch their target if their target is scum.

There is no guarantee that scum would lie about their role; ergo, there's no guaranteed benefit if your target is scum. There is a guarantee that if your target is town, they will claim their role; ergo, there is guaranteed malefit or whatever the opposite of benefit is if your target is town. no town role cop would do that, and you and i both know it when even a role like strongman can be town (even if uselessly so).

[implosion]

two things; 1) that is a gross misrepresentation of my case; 2) even if it wasn't, "gunsmith wouldn't do that" is perfectly good reasoning when you are... y'know claiming gunsmith and i have a scum read on you anyway.

[implosion]

yeah... me neither.

[implosion]

is it bleeding? is it sticking its tongue out?

[implosion]

It means I'm coming for you.

How? Like, explain the emote to me. Because it's seriously bugging me now.

You'd like that, wouldn't you?

[implosion]

Zdenek, that post is all well and good except that it does not contain a vote for david xanatos.
lolninjad

[implosion]

by my count, zdenek is the hammer.

[implosion]

Sera is still town.

[implosion]

the way in which he pushed the DX lynch makes me feel that he's town. The "scum will try to gain whatever they can out of a mislynch" argument kind of fails to me, because i feel like, if i were seraphim, the way that i pushed the DX lynch would make me feel like i was making myself scummy.

Like, I feel like if scum were in seraphim's position, they wouldn't have acted like he did because it would have felt scummy to them to do so.

[implosion]

eh, maybe. The whole "vote a townie, fos a scumbuddy" thing only works to me if the scum who made the post in question has flipped, seeing as townies could in theory entirely by accident vote a townie and fos someone who is scum. It could be a bus, i see no reason for it to be a bus.

Meh, he could be scum. Definitely not convinced of it though.

[implosion]

VOTE: Katsuki

COUNTERWAGON GO

[implosion]

Hey Seraphim.

Vote someone.

[implosion]

Speaking of which, I have another tracker result (I won both). Not entirely sure what to make of it, though. thoughts?

[implosion]

That isn't why Zdenek is town.
Suggesting the massclaim is why Zdenek is town.
Even if it was an awful idea.

Also, actually, I sort of like gandalf's idea. Massclaim what we did last night. The only downsides would be:
1) scum would know what protective/blocking/etc roles have been used up;
2) scum might be able to guess what people are powerless, but probably not;
3) some roles (white mage, for instance) might lose some effectiveness.

We could do it popcorn style, and once the person who i tracked claims, i can see if they're BSing or not.

[implosion]

Eh, seraphim's town. We should lynch someone else.

[implosion]

So uh, are we doing the plan in 465? if so, it might make sense to start with seraphim.

[implosion]

In unrelated news, gandalf is town.

[implosion]

meh.

i need more people to tell me what i should do with my second tracker result.

[implosion]

Bad parama.

[implosion]

meh. magister ludi visited me.
softclaiming "who visited me" would just lead to confusion and other claims
softclaiming "i tracked mag ludi" will just make him fakeclaim if he's scum
and abilities are 1-shot anyway

so meh.

[implosion]

Parama isn't scum

He's just a dick

[implosion]

I considered bidding for the vigs, but I actually expected to be outbid by

scum

.

Actually, on that note, there's something that we might want to discuss.

If you were scum, what would your bidding strategy have been? I can think of several...

1) go for killing roles. Have one person bid 100 for each vig, have one person bid for the vanilla vig possibly + the power deleter, have one person bid for protection roles so that there are fewer of them. Use these vigs to kill good players or obvtown players, or stockpile them to make lylo come several days earlier.
2) go for protective roles. Win both doctors and the jailkeeper and the white mage, so that you can kill the inevitable cascade of obvious townies that this setup will create.
3) go for investigative roles. Try to win the gunsmith, cop, trackers and watcher to limit the inevitable cascade of obvious townies.
4) go for scum-oriented roles. Try to win rolecops, trackers, watcher, strongman, blockers, power deleter, redirector etc. Use those roles to counteract the roles that the town has.
5) some kind of combination of these.

David having the gunsmith is interesting; his claim to have bid for both main vigs is also interesting.

Which of these strategies do you think you would have chosen as scum?

[implosion]

This is awesome.

massclaim is fine.

[implosion]

I considered doing what CES did.

[implosion]

653 looks good, except I'd swap vifam and zdenek. Not confident in vifam as town, but i am confident in zdenek as town.

Hoopla was already going to be lynched no matter what.

Also, I have something useful to say once massclaim is over, so remind me to say that.

[implosion]

hey vifam, unvote for now. we don't want to give hoopla a chance to self-hammer to cut off the massclaim.

[implosion]

neighborizer A - magister ludi
neighbor B - Ellibereth
neighbor C - Ellibereth
neighbor D - Ellibereth
rolecop A
rolecop B - Nocmen
RB A - Parama
RB B
Tracker A - implosion
Tracker B - implosion
Doctor A - juls
Doctor B
selfdoc - chamber
vig - fate
dayvig - maruchan
vanillavig - CES
cop - gandalf
jk
watcher - Juls
self watcher - Parama
bodyguard - Vifam (hoopla is also claiming it but is almost certainly lying)
pgo
white mage - juls
weak doc - Magister ludi
redirector - CES
gunsmith - David Xanatos
fruit vendor - implosion
strongman - Parama
neighbor spy - CES
power deleter - implosion

Only obvtown haven't claimed, so i'm just gonna go ahead. I won both trackers, the fruit vendor (the kumquat to gandalf was completely random, sorry x_X i did it because i had nothing better to do at night and was already obvtown), and the power deleter.
40 on tracker A, 23 on tracker b, 4 on the jailkeeper, 11 on the gunsmith, 11 on the fruit vendor, 1 on the strongman, 2 on each roleblocker and 6 on the power deleter.

Based on CES's claim, it's safe to say that any abilities not claimed were won by scum, or were tied for.

Both CES and I bid 4 on the jailkeeper; both Zdenek and Nocmen bid exactly 30 on the PGO.

Therefore, there's no guarantee that either of these are actually in play. If they are in play and no one claims them, then scum have them. Hoopla claimed to bid 46 on the PGO, but she lied about the bodyguard so she may have been lying about that too. She could also flip pgo, in which case, well, there's the pgo.

Anyway, the importantish thing that i wanted to mention earlier: we can use my power deleter + CES's vanilla vig to vig whoever we want if we don't want to vig someone who's already vanilla. We are in odds, so here's what we might want to do with this: save katsuki for later. After we lynch scum # 3, with only one scum left, have CES shoot katsuki.

If there are two kills that night, CES can't have made both. A PGO shenanigan is possible, but still.
If there's only one on kats, then well, we'll still be in odds and a scumspect will be dead.
if kats survives, either she's lying about being vanilla or CES is scum or CES was blocked or kats was jailkept. etc.

[implosion]

The main thing we need to worry about at this point: the scum (essentially confirmedly) have a 1-shot roleblocker, which they might use on CES. They could also have the PGO.

Vifam guarding juls tonight sounds good.

VOTE: Hoopla

[implosion]

OVERKILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

nah.

[implosion]

not 7 more, five MORE< seven deaths after is what I meant.

I was responsible for 2 deaths (if you wish to blame me for my own lynch at least, whatevs)
You as a group were responsible for 7.

I have NEVER said the game was not at all lost due to me, I just have said it isn't 100% my fault. Yes I contributed to it, but not 100%, not even 50%. Not even 25% of it. I contributed to 22.2222222222...% of the deaths of this game, so therefore you can say that it was 22% my fault. (again, if you blame me for my own death)

Not quite.

If you hadn't dayvigged fate, fate would likely have nightvigged gandalf. So you were probably responsible for two town deaths and one lack of a scum death (a scum who then survived to the end of the game, probably because fate wasn't alive to kill/push on him).

If that scum had died, then the town would have gained an extra mislynch. Moreover, we would have gained an extra (semi) confirmed innocent in Fate, which would force another scum kill.

So yeah. you vigging Fate had many more consequences than two town deaths.