The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Dekes]

Read up to Page 8. Thoughts and votes and stuff tomorrow.

[Dekes]

Ludi probably town.
Andy probably town.
Andy maybe town.
gand probably town.
Espeo maybe town.
VitaminR probably town.


kanye bah.
Spyrex bah.
Chronopie bah.
Pere bah.

Emp maaaybe town.
Oversoul meeeh.

Wraith. Dunno.

Katsuki. I don't care.
Furcolow. I don't care.

Alright, I'm caught up now and established some reads as I read along.

Regarding the main wagons:
- I'm not ready to vote Katsuki's slot yet. He may be scum, but I tend to skim Katsuki's useless posts and it's easy to call him scum based on that.

- The LC-wagon seems only a bit better. I didn't like the timing his humungous catch-up post at a moment, when the gandalf-Andrius fiasco was dying down and people started looking elsewhere. However, I don't see the obvscumminess in him and it still looks like a lazy wagon.

- Why is there still a gandalf wagon? Unless gandalf is in cahoots with Andy I don't see how he could coordinate to match up his claim similarly to Andy's. And Andy has a very townie approach so far.

Tl, dr: I don't agree with any of the wagons that are up for voting. I don't like how PeregrineV has gotten no heat so far for his scummy posts. Same with WoW (

@Andy

, where do you get the town read on them?), Wraith, SaM, ChronoPie and Spyrex. Yap, a lot of lurker and few people on the main wagons, as I believe Kats and LC are easy wagons on "always-good-lynches" that don't need a necessary push from scum. Iffy on Kanye.

Vote: PeregrineV

[Dekes]

Lol, shit. Those reads were added as I read along. They're not actually supposed to be in that post.

[Dekes]

@OS
I'm not here to solve all the puzzles Day one. You have my reads. And my vote.

Vitamin and Espeo are apparently up there because I had a town read on them while reading up. Though upon quick ISOing, Vitamin gets demoted to a maybe town.

What's more interesting is why you have avoided the Katsuki wagon, when apparently both of your heads agree that he's scum and he's by far the bigger wagon than kanye. The wagon doesn't need another push from you, huh?

There were some things that caught my attention as I was reading along. SpyreX of course is hinting at being Finduilas like there is no tomorrow. I know, any role could be given to mafia as a false claim, however I find it more likely for town to role play or get into character. Enjoying the thought of being a certain character is something I see coming from a town mindset, particularly if the player is a fan of the theme material.

Scum however would not find similar enjoyment in pretending to be a certain character, which would make them less likely to bother with role playing.

Therefore I consider SpyreX's hints a town tell.

That seems to be highly subjective and only used to serve the purpose of explaining your town read on SpyreX. Why is it less likely for scum to enjoy imitating their role/fakeclaim? After all, imitating unnatural behaviour is scum's inherent task.

Looking forward to your scum reads rather than your town reads.

[Dekes]

Scary how I managed to get on the town list of two people who I didn't call scum. With two posts. Something to think about.

@Dekes

– I notice you completely avoid any sort of MoI read in your ‘catch-up post’. I’d like you to commit to a read in your next one.

Why is this so important to you? You were in the non-readable-yet pool, along with a lot of other people. You have a little too many scum suspects for my taste and you seem to be a bit pushier than usual (and by pushier I mean, you try to push several persons on a certain wagon at times).

@Dekes- Agree on the Feysal thing. I want to see where it goes before agreeing to lynch him. Good luck on your heat.

Don't get cocky.
You still haven't sufficiently explained why you voted Andrius over gandalf who had a wagon on him at that point, when you said it didn't matter who goes first if one of them is town aligned and one isn't.

Also, your kanye vote is completely void of reason. Did Feysal's play convince you until now?


@Empking
What are you trying to achieve by engaging MoI in this matter again and again? Are you trying to convince MoI that you're town? Are you trying to show him the errors in his scum hunting methods? Is this supposed to be a display for other people to realize how town you are?
Whatever it is, imo it doesn't serve a useful purpose like getting scum lynched.


- Agreed on Feysal. The continued bitching with Furcolow is scummy and distracting as hell. Funnily enough, his replacing in has helped me get a better read on him. His town/scum lists are a bit too general with no personal edge and me being the 5th highest town read is lol. And it all results in voting his counter wagon after all.

I'd probably be willing to get on board of the Feysal wagon if we approach deadline. Note to self: The LC wagon dissipated for no real reason (LC didn't say a single word while it happened).

With, KKB I still believe it's a personality thing. I get mild town vibes from some of his posts and a lot of uselessness rather than scumminess from most of his others. Not really feeling the Espeo case.

But what I'm absolutely sure about is that there's scum in the skating by-pool (Pere, SaM, Wraith, WoW...is Chrono V/LA of any sorts? Because that ISO is just disgusting).

[Dekes]

What? Because I declared you as town in this scenario? Lol.

So, when did you confirm your suspicion in MoI? After your first exchange? Your fifth? Your tenth?

And are you going to use this method on everybody?

[Dekes]

I was asking about your motivation. Arguing ad nauseum a point that has been made clear in the very first post didn't look like scumhunting to ne. Only repetitive and distracting.

I'm going to check when not on the train. But there was definitely a bigger back and forth between the two of you.

[Dekes]

Moi using one toen game of yours to determine your town meta and you arguing against it.

[Dekes]

It was clear that you wouldn't convince each other of your differing viewpoints. So, what made moi scum in that exchange of yours? The fact that he used this method to try to determine your alignment in the first place or the fact that you couldn't convince him of the wrongness of said method?

[Dekes]

Dead tired right now. If I don't have a post up by tomorrow evening, I don't think I'll be able to keep up with this game and will ask to be replaced. I don't wanna really though so I'm gonna try my best.

[Dekes]

What do you think of Pere, WoW?

So far, you've only attacked his random vote and that's it.

Why would speed wagoning Pere being considered a safe vote and appear less scummy than voting Feysal or Kanye at this point?


So yeah, I really don't wanna replace out of this game. But I'm still busy as hell with looking for an apartment. So instead I'm gonna take a

V/LA through Monday

I'll try to get a couple of posts in until then, but no promises.

But this Pere wagon makes me feel good inside. Need to take a look at the voters, but for now I'll join anyway.

Unvote; Vote: PeregrineV

[Dekes]

Ok Dekes is scum? Why you ask? Because HE WAS ALREADY VOTING PERE WHEN HE POSTED THIS.

Hard to believe he suddenly was convinced Pere was scum by the Feysal case when he supposedly already had a scum read on Pere and was voting him.

Scumtastic.

Who said anything about "suddenly convinced"? A quick glance through my ISO would tell you a) that I was very likely the first to attack PeregrineV and b) that I was not that into the game due to a busy real life. That vote was simply reaffirming my suspicion and I probably thought that I had unvoted in one of my prod dodging posts.
Obviously, I didn't want Pere get lynched so fast and without a claim. But eh, I went V/LA without unvoting and not realizing how close the deadline was, so gotta take some blame for that one there.

The way you're treating those people who should be on your short scum list differently based on how they view you is disturbing. Especially SpyreX comes here to mind who's way sheepier than I've ever seen him and apart from role playing has been solely reactive the whole game. And he was on both the early gandalf and the final Pere wagon. And yet you're giving him a pass on giving reasons for the Pere vote and can only muster a half-assed dig at him. You need your sheep this game or are you actually trying to read those people, too?

Vote: Feysal

I'll bite on what the Seraphs gaves us and with how quickly the Pere wagon reached the lynch makes it unlikely that both kanye and Feysal are town. And Feysal's still the scummier of the two.
pedit: Oh, goodie. Feysal, what's your win-con?

WoW's entry to D2 and the follow-up is so ridiculous, it's really astonishing.

SaM needs way more input. Amrun's definitely not lurkerish as either alignment. So I don't know whether CSL told her in the hydra QT to adapt to her scummy lurkerish behavior and stay low or if they really keep forgetting about the game.

Wraith was way up my scum list yesterday, but I actually got some decent vibes from him today.

I need to take another look at VitaminR soonish it seems.

great, I can only imagine the mafia meeting
"chronopie ISN'T scum?" "Yeah, he's lurking pretty hard"
"He's probably a town aligned power role"
"Let's kill him, he is actively lurking and isn't mafia"

great job chronopie
i could really learn from your play

anyway, feysal visited me last night

And we know that content free Chronopie was the mafia kill, because?

[Dekes]

There's a "vote" missing after follow-up.

And yes, you were kinda completely crazy for that vote.

[Dekes]

Feysal, target?

Wraith.

Whoever asked for my kill flavor, you have your answer. Apparently it is not exclusive to me though, as I had nothing to do with Chronopie's death.

I might as well confirm it now, Brandir was also on my list, as you might have guessed from the flavor. Now only two remain.

Yeah, no. There's too much not adding up here, bro. Why did you target Wraith out of the people on the lists, a person whom you had a town read on instead of shooting one of your scum suspects, trying to even the odds which would benefit you as well in the long run (since you claim that Glaurung = likely scum is one of your targets as well)? Did you see any breadcrumbs from Wraith pointing to him being Beleg?

If "slain cruelly" is your kill flavor there's no reason to think that the N1 kill wasn't made by you. Plum Theme mod meta strongly suggests different kill flavors for every different scum. Apart from lol-Bastard-mod I don't see any reason to believe that kill flavors are doubled up. So, either you're lying or your kill got redirected to Chronopie, coincidentally another one of your target. You getting 2/2 in a pool of 24 players with few claims seems very lucky. Only thing that doesn't add up here is that Furc claims that you visited him N1.

Why did you target Furc N1 anyway? It makes absolutely no sense at all from your POV. You claim that out of the flavor talk you got the impression that Furc might've been Mim. Unless he's one of your targets why would you take up Furc's request to shoot him instead of trying to go after one your targets? If you were a town vig, it might've made sense because it could've been beneficial for town, but as a self-aligned player it makes no sense at all.

I'm not a watcher. I am Mim the petty dwarf, a 3rd party survivor that was immune to 1 night kill,

and got to learn someone's alignment
Feysal is not evil

Furc, elaborate. What did you receive in terms of Feysal's alignment? "Not evil"? That's actually a pretty shitty power if you're still in doubt of Feysal's alignment afterwards.

@MoI
I may have missed it, but how did the Seraphs react to Feysal's claim? Was it what they expected? Do they believe his claim? Do they still want him dead?

tl;dr
Yes, we did waste time to lynch scummy towns folk, but Feysal has to go rather sooner than later as he's obviously not interested in helping the town at all. Out of the murder list of Empking, Espeonage, Wraith, S&M and me he shot the most townish looking one (which doesn't say a lot here, quite frankly) and magically hit one of targets. There's also a lot of inconsistencies with his claimed actions and I don't even rule out him being scum (discrepancy between Chronopie getting killed by Feysal's apparent kill flavor and Furc claiming to see Feysal having visited him).

Vote: Feysal

And, btw, sorry for my absence. I'm not replacing out and I'm back now. I take a look through the thread see what I've missed.

[Dekes]

Beleg = Brandir

[Dekes]

Dekes so you're saying that Feysal lied about his killflavor, despite it CLEARLY being similar? I feel like he'd have to be dumb as a stick or ballsy to do that.

You have quite some experience with Plum modding. What do you think the odds of her using doubled up flavor?

He's got to kill Glaurung sooner or later.
So he's very much helpful for us.

He's got to? What if he misses and continues to shoot town? What if he's lying entirely?
I rather take my chances getting rid of the scum myself instead of relying on a claimed self-aligned player where we have no evidence whatsoever he's telling the truth about his win-con or his role. The Seraphs wanted a full claim, but never followed up on this at all.

I like how your catchup post focuses solely on the already-claimed SK.

It's not an SK per se. And that's what caught my eye immediately. He was shifty as hell before my absence and that didn't change. I said I need to reread to assess other things.

[Dekes]

I take it you mean Minaday?

Unvote; Vote: Empking

[Dekes]

Unvote; Vote: Sun & Moon

That works, too. Apparently I read too much into this one.

Also, I missed that one, so it seems Feysal's murder list got reduced to one before the end of the day.

MoI, if there's anything else you want to say, now would be the right time. I don't trust Feysal now that you've claimed and if you're indeed his second to last target. It gives him leeway to kill you and then come in tomorrow "Well, guys, now it's only Glaurung left, so you can bet your asses I'ma help town from now on!"

WoW is still scum for ignoring the guilty on Empking and everything else, then calling out MoS without a follow up vote.

[Dekes]

Also, it looks like Wraith weak doctor'd gandalf N1, judging from his posts D2. But eh, I guess, that's not important anymore.

[Dekes]

That was indeed shady since ooba has very recent first hand experience with complete lurker(ish) scum teams (Back to the Future Mafia, Battle of Olympus Mafia).

But ooba replaced Ludi, right? I always were pretty fond of him.

@Andy
It was obviously a different situation when Turin wasn't outed, wasn't it?

[Dekes]

@Andy
I was repsonding to your response.

I feel so left out of the cool kids club, so I'll let you do the business with Hurin and Co. I'd like to know if the guilty on Empking is solid stuff or rather a "town is so pants on head, let us handle the scum hunting for them" statement by Minaday, but apparently that's undisclosed information right now.

[Dekes]

Unvote

No quickhammers on my watch. There's still things to be said, people to be heard.

[Dekes]

This game.

Why are the seraphs able to confirm S&M's name?

Can they confirm MoI's name as well?

The waffling on MoI reads as bad. What is indeed MoI's motivation to come forward like that as scum?

Guess, we have to wait for ooba first.

[Dekes]

If they are indeed Hurin and can confirm S&M as Turin, they should be able to confirm MoI Turin as well.

[Dekes]

Yeah, why indeed?

And sorry, Seraphs, for trying to solve this Vig-Mason-Miller vs. Suicidal Cop result with conflicting name claims issue. Won't happen again.

[Dekes]

Checking in from the phone. I'm mostly caught up, so I'm trying to be concise here. And no quotes.

I'm more and more inclined to hang sun and moon. Too many inconsistencies with the claim. And the nillerism reeks too much of scum caught trying to explain a guilty on them. Also, did anybody else find it weird that csl informed amrun instead of claiming? Hydra or not, if I was town and my lynch was immediate, I'd claim ASAP. No need to ask permission from your partner.
Whatever ooba and sam are (neighbors, lovers, silly scun) I don't think they are two town aligned masons. Only thing that doesn't make sense is Sam's name claim. I really don't want to believe in two turins.

@amrun
Did you inform ooba/Ludi immediately once you turned miller?
Why is your vote not on moi if you're so sure he's scum? You're voting empking, the not even confirmed guilty of the seraphs who apprently unlocked moi's cop ability. Do you trust the seraphs? Do you think moi was honest with us about everything regarding the seraphs? Do you think Andy is?

@ooba
I want you to do the same amrun was asked to do. Ask plum whether you two are alignment confirmed.

@feysal
Is your kill flavor specified in you role pm?

In Lotr mafia, every mafia member and the vig and sk had their individual l
Kill flavors mentioned in their role pms.


@moi
Why did you neglect to clarify why you name claimed in the first place? It's a legit issue and needs to be answered.
Do you still die if your guilty is not mafia?

God, posting from the phone is hella annoying. I've got more stuff I wanted to say (Andy, spyrex), but this'll have to wait until tonight.

[Dekes]

We informed ludi of our millerhood IMMEDIATELY.

And you were informed about turning miller when? With the beginning of Day 2?

[Dekes]

For what it's worth, killing me means killing town.

If it makes you sleep better at night, through your PoE or because you want to spare Plum from the hassle of looking for a replacement any further, go ahead.

I'd just want to point out that reasons brought up against me surrounding my apparent Pere wagon hop and MoI read (or rather lack thereof) are pure bull crap.
Unfortunately, I'm not the scum out of the contentless posters. I'd aim within WoW, SpyreX and Empking. Or, if you're unsure, Furc, cause I'd hate to see a lynch getting wasted on that down the line.

This is not me getting back into this game, because I won't have proper internet for another couple of weeks and I'm not doing something word heavy as forum mafia via my blackberry.

This is me trying to give my replacement a fair chance. Or, if Feysal's still going through with the plan, this is me giving my final scum reads.