The Aftermath - Victors Announced

[Pine]

Wooooooo!

VOTE: spyrex

Ginger!

Vote: elvis_knits

For voting for a ginger. It's on, mofo.

[Pine]

Pine (ginger protector)

I

am

ginger, foo'.

[Pine]

VOTE: xRECKx

No more gingers. If I were superficial, I would have dated nothing but gingers and given birth to the spawn of gingers. Stop tempting me.

Awww, I tempt you?

Unvote
Vote: DGB

I can never read you effectively, but that vote on Reck looks more like the subconscious RVS vote-hopping I associate with pulling scum.

[Pine]

I love well thought out cases.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

But often the most telling. I notice you dodging the implicit question...so I'll make it explicitly stated. Why is kuribo the most scummy? I almost jumped on kuribo for fluffy posting, too, but fluffy posting is only an actual problem if it is in lieu of content or distracting other players. Kuribo is posting in volume, and meets neither of the aforementioned requirements to be considered bad fluff.

So again, what's your case on kuribo?

bro, there ain't a fire hot enough to kill me

Except my hair. (Look out! KK might wag his finger disapprovingly at me for having fun at the same time as I take the game seriously!)

[Pine]

Statement: at least one of the SDC is scum.

Discuss.

THIS FUCKING SHIT ALREADY?

ANYWAY IT SURE AS FUCK ISNT SOCIO

AND IT DAMN WELL ISNT SPYREX

VOTE: KUBLAI KHAN

mehhh KK might be town but he sure is as hell is wrong about Kuribo.

PE: Hinduragi can be Town. We've only played a few games together, but I'm getting a Town vibe based on that.

Vote: Sleepless Assasin

Cognitive dissonance? KK didn't post at all between "Vote: KK" and "KK might be Town".

I hesitate to commit further to that because, well, Fate's reputation precedes him, and I've never played with him before. I'm torn between staying on KK myself, jumping on the quite-convincing Sleepless Assassin wagon, and taking another look at kuribo...the whole "Funny

and

content" thing kind of died when the dick-measuring contest started.

Pine ia annoying me so he's probably town.

I lol'd. Actually, this whole thread so far is hilarious

[Pine]

Pine defended kuribo. Don't think I didn't notice, pine.

I defended my own reasons for not finding kuribo especially scummy. There's actually a subtle but substantive difference there. Though were I so inclined to defend him, his actions and spam are becoming increasingly indefensible as he adds more and more fluff and off-topic banter without introducing a balancing (read: greater) amount of genuine content.

[Pine]

You weren't really scummy at all until then. You started using them more or less around the time your wagon took off. None of it has the rage I know and embrace. You used caps because you felt like it. So, if you weren't angry, ???

He's scared. Anger=/=Fear

no, dude, the only thing I fear in this game is rubbing my nipples too hard when I lynch scum

You really need to stop posting like this. It's unproductive and the endless postcount-inflation is making the act of catching up seem daunting to those who aren't current, Grimmjow being a good example of someone who goes "Oh shit, eight pages". This deprives us of their input and adds nothing to the game.

[Pine]

I like my Town to talk more and blather less. You're doing entirely too much of the latter.

[Pine]

Lol u jealous bro?

[Pine]

Holy fuck DGB is scum isn't she?

Yep. I think this is the first time I've ever had a solid read on her.

Fate, I actually love being scum. I drew town for this game though.

Kuribo, I answered his question. What's the problem?

Chunk, my bad. Forgot I voted reck to make sure he noticed my question.

Guys, hindu is now scum for dropping the "I'm gonna win" tell. Probably self aligned, but still scum.

Lol. Going out of the way to call himself Town AND D1 Third-Party hunting in the same post. SLAM DUNK ON SCUM RIGHT HERE.

SA is the lynch for today. I feel it in my bones.

The SDC supports this lynch.

I concur.

PFA also supports this lynch.

[Pine]

Then why aren't you voting SA?

Seriously?

I support two lynches. One of them is at L-2. I'm not ready to be within quickhammering range this early into D1 with so many testosterone-enhanced players. There's more work we can do today, before we strong SA up.

[Pine]

Yes, seriously. You haven't done ANYTHING in this game, and now you suddenly think SA is scum out of nowhere. You aren't pushing your one-vote bandwagon, either. I'd like to hear more from you.

Statement: at least one of the SDC is scum.

Discuss.

THIS FUCKING SHIT ALREADY?

ANYWAY IT SURE AS FUCK ISNT SOCIO

AND IT DAMN WELL ISNT SPYREX

VOTE: KUBLAI KHAN

mehhh KK might be town but he sure is as hell is wrong about Kuribo.

PE: Hinduragi can be Town. We've only played a few games together, but I'm getting a Town vibe based on that.

Vote: Sleepless Assasin

Cognitive dissonance? KK didn't post at all between "Vote: KK" and "KK might be Town".

I hesitate to commit further to that because, well, Fate's reputation precedes him, and I've never played with him before. I'm torn between staying on KK myself, jumping on the quite-convincing Sleepless Assassin wagon, and taking another look at kuribo...the whole "Funny

and

content" thing kind of died when the dick-measuring contest started.

Pine ia annoying me so he's probably town.

I lol'd. Actually, this whole thread so far is hilarious

My agreement regarding Sleepless Assassin is

hardly

out of nowhere.

Having done little in this game is a fair criticism, but this thread is going at a truly ridiculous rate (17 pages already and not slowing down,) so one needs to either commit to keeping up that dumbass pace (like you have) or just try to keep up and hope that it calms down some time soon and assumes a normal pace. I'm posting at a little less than my ordinary rate.

However, positing that I've done

nothing

is

not

a fair criticism. I've expressed suspicion of, at various points, DGB, Fate, SA, kuribo, and KK, complete with sound reasons for all of them (though granted, not full cases). I've dedicated a number of my other posts to trying to cut through the bullshit in this thread and help make it manageable for the majority of us who have a life (that "coaching" bit you or someone else accused me of earlier. Check my scum meta, he'd be on his own by now. I abandon useless scummates as readily as I help those who will be useful.)

Just because my post count is low compared to your prolific one-liners does not mean you get to cut me out of the conversation with a dismissive "but you haven't done anything comment."

That said, you're still probably Town, so contribute to the solution, not the problem. Reduce the bullshit.

[Pine]

Pine, if you see a self aligned tell, as town, do you seriously just ignore it? I didn't vote the guy for a reason. I'd rather lynch mafia than self-aligned scum.

There was no self-aligned tell. Hindu was saying he'd win the 5v1 thing, not that he'd survive to endgame and win the whole thing for himself. You manufactured the self-aligned tell out of jack because you're desperately looking for a Serial Killer.

[Pine]

Was about to contradict the Survivor speculation, but then I remembered we were in the Theme Park (I mostly play large Normals). Good to remember, we could be dealing with all kinds of crazy shit roles.

PE: Spyrex, care to actually express an opinion? Do you agree or disagree with SA's alleged self-aligned tell, do you agree with my calling him out for fabricating it, and do you find such preoccupation with third parties on D1 to be as scummy as I do? Note that all three of these questions are mutually exclusive, though related.

[Pine]

There's a difference between reading the rules and remembering them.

It doesn't change the scumminess of SA's third party hunting.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Sleepless Assassin

This is today's lynch. DGB isn't going anywhere, and has been staying extremely quiet to stay under the radar, she can wait.

PE: Hrm, wasn't concerned by putting him to L-2, but I'm confident enough in it that L-1 isn't a problem either.

Claim time, SA.

[Pine]

Between the first and second, I changed my mind. Real people do that.

The cause for the change is that the initial activity of this thread has majorly slowed down, and it's not as productive anymore. A lot of D1s fall apart towards the end with hesitancy to lynch., and I've decided not to be a contributing factor to that phenomenon in this game when we have a very good lynch candidate that most people agree on, or at least have commented on. D2 can start with a bang as we go back and analyze peoples' actions in light of SA's flip.

[Pine]

Dude you lazy jerks go really reread that wall of nothing.

Its a giant play by play.

Ding! It's mostly IIOA. There is

some

analysis to it, but very little that is original. The analysis of motives never goes out on a limb, and is just the seasoning that makes a wall of shit palatable.

Despite disagreeing with Reck about SA, and agreeing with Spyrex about the same, Reck's case on Spy is fairly convincing.

I was going to take my vote off of SA pending the completion of his list, but it seems that people are jumping ship on his wagon like fleeing rats, so it'll stay. And when SA flips scum, I'll be going after those who jumped off at the first excuse.

SA, DGB, and Spyrex are maybe half the scumteam. Not sure who else yet.

I'm guessing 15 to 6, by the way. Maybe 16 to 5.

PE: DGB wagon is good, but I'd rather we stayed on target and squeeze some more out of SA before it's totally abandoned.

[Pine]

^Bus. The faux-nonchalant eeny meeny etc feels too faked and contrived to be natural. Uncertai about Rhinox at this point, so I dunno if that is a bus too.

[Pine]

^I lol'd

[Pine]

Pine, your logic makes no sense. Why would scum push a buddy to L-1 and only jump off when a big post comes up. It's all either scum who jumped on the easy lynch and jumped off when it didn't look as easy anymore or town whose opinion changed or was lessened.

Check page 6 of the "Basic Scum Tactics" chapter in your scum manual. You got it with your role PM. I'll lay it out here, though. Scum are wise to jump on a buddy's lynch when it appears inevitable. Incautious scum will jump off at the first excuse or whenever it seems like the wagon is slowing down.

The other thing is how does your reasoning lead to DGB and Spy being scum?

Interestingly enough, my reasons for them have nothing to do with you. Imagine that.

Oh, and I've explained both.

[Pine]

No acknowledgement of how your scumass is getting run up?

Here's what.

My husband threatened to leave me, said he'd been miserable for 26 years and there was nothing I could do to change his mind. I ran to find a job because I was going to have to make ends meet more solidly than with my web income alone.

I am now spending my days lining up lightbulbs and climbing giant ladders to move merchandise at a hardware store, for minimum wage. At 46. With a Master's degree in Molecular Biology.

He's back, but I'm not taking any chances.

So.

I'm sorry if I'm not in the mood for long winded cases.

You're getting what I can give.

If that's not good enough, lynch me.

I'm very sorry to hear about this, and I can empathize with some parts of it, particularly the profound underemployment. You have my heartfelt deepest sympathies.

Not to be that guy and maybe its more heartstrings but I absolutely can't see DGB-scum just laying that on the table like that.

DGB-Town and DGB-Scum have exactly the same reasons for laying it out like that - it's true, and that's the overriding focus in her life right now. Don't cheapen it by considering it strategically, it wasn't meant as such. No one who's gone through something like that is crass enough to use it for strategic gain, and I don't find DGB even remotely heartless enough to make it up for game profit. Shame on you for trying to use your buddy's personal life for your team's advantage.

Use what you've got in-game, and only that. As much as I empathize with her, I saw DGB-scum early. With the SA wagon falling apart, I'm willing to switch over and let SA survive until D2 (though a vigging would be quite welcome).

Unvote
Vote: DGB

Sorry, DGB.

[Pine]

^This post represents the first solid scum vibe I've gotten from Reck this game. At least, I think it's the first...we're in a lot of games together, I may be getting my games crossed. Either way, that's a solidly overconfident-scum post.

[Pine]

For those that commented (Reck, Kuribo), I'm curious to know if you were happy for me to be killed as you believe I am scum, or you were happy for a daykill to move the game on (a genuine day kill of me would have had a good chance of Hindu being lynched).

actually a genuine daykill of you had a good chance of confirming Hindu as town, but thanks for playing

This is a good point, though kuribo doesn't take the point far enough. The original quote (now that I view it in isolation) screams "desperate last flailings of scum." An actual daykill would indeed have confirmed Hindu as Town, which every Townie here was likely thinking already. To say the above, I'm confident that chunkykev was trying everything in his playbook to take Hindu down with him. Town in that situation would instead have recognized what we all did, that scum daykiller is uber overpowered and therefore a true daykill confirms Hindu. At which point, he would have either started cussing Hindu out for being derpTown and/or started preparing his final will and testament in the thread, before mod shut him up.

I can support a chunkykev lynch based on this. I think it's the worst scumslip in the thread, and am disappointed in myself for missing it at first.

Unvote
Vote: chunkykev

[Pine]

Pfft. You're still in the process of going down hard, so while that added detail is somewhat pertinent, it is also largely irrelevant.

[Pine]

but those posts are like Chinese food, they're there, you can eat them, but they're not very filling

Ironic post is ironic.

I can support a Spyrex lynch. Not my #1 choice, but in my top three.

[Pine]

Now that scum daytalk has ended, I think we should lynch Seraphim.

Massive scum ping here. I've always considered a desire to get rid of replacements to be scummy, but usually they're able to justify it based on replacing-in posts or the predecessor's play. Malthusis didn't post since RVS, and all Seraphim has said is hello. There is no possible Town motivation for the quoted post. Scum, on the other hand, fear (or ought to fear) replacements, as replacements can bring new insight and perspectives to a game that has already settled, with confirmation bias of varying degrees taking hold in everyone (especially those who protest themselves immune to its influence.) Replacements don't have preconceived notions or reads, and are thus unburdened by them when reading recent posts. Replacements can really ruin a scum's day, especially when the scum isn't really suspected, as Sociopath isn't right now.

Unvote
Vote: Sociopath

Everything else can wait, I'm shaking this tree, and will be ISOing Socio in the morning.

[Pine]

Why, Reck? Aside from him being in your little club?

Oh, and instead of just being blinded by your confirmation bias (see 815), could you at least evaluate the new evidence being presented, instead of dismissing it out of hand? Kthx.

[Pine]

Many do, and all scum really ought to, for everything I said in 815. Replacements are a serious threat to scum that are succeeding in flying below the radar.

That aside, Sociopath has no other legit reason for going after Seraphim, and therefore his vote deserves suspicion on that merit alone.

[Pine]

Kuribo, obv scum fear

competent

replacements, think about what YOU said earlier. How much better you are at finding scum when you replace into a game. Scum have their whole little magical world set-up, then someone replaces in and shits all over it. Course this is all moot because calling Sociopath scum over this is TROLOLOLOLPINETOWN.

The bolded is an excellent point. Shame they're in short supply.

Fate, wagon Socio with me?

[Pine]

* Pine's vote for SocioPath was horrible and opportunistic.

* Conversely, SocioPath is being stupid and useless.

These points do not work together. Either Socio is being stupid and useless, and is therefore reasonable to suspect, or my vote was

horrible and opportunistic

No. I demand you explain what is opportunistic about voting for someone that no one has expressed significant suspicion of, and what is horrible about voting for someone who has done something that I find to be scummy (and is in accordance with an opinion I have given in many games, both as Town and as scum. Jumping on replacements is scummy. Period.)

You've been borderline all game, KK. You can't just make statements like that and expect them to hold any weight unless you back them up.

[Pine]

@KK: It's not "after 34 pages". Sociopath has made 33 posts, most of which were one-liners. I've been having a hard time reading him, and this is the first thing I can recall that's really given me a strong impression in either direction. I honestly

don't

think he's been manipulating Town "this whole time" I think he's done his best to lay low and not really be noticed. Successfully, I might add.

And I don't think he has "a different theory" than I do, I think his ACTIONS are scummy. This is theory-in-practice, not theory-in-discussion. Socio jumped on a replacement because of a scummy agenda, not to prove a point about how his theory of replacements is different than mine. Further, not one thing you just said explains "opportunistic". There was NO opportunity presented by Socio's actions, no one else is on him. This is a new theory from a new direction, of my own volition and no one else's. I had no reason to believe anyone else would react the same way I did except by the force of my argument's merits. If someone ELSE had made the points I did, and I tagged my vote on with a tacky one-liner of agreement, THAT would be opportunism. Update your dictionary, or stop using buzzwords you don't know how to use.

[Pine]

DGB, Spyrex, Sociopath, and SA are all acceptable lynches, though I realize that not all of them are likely for today.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Spyrex

[Pine]

Apologies, work requires my full attention one more day. Something came up.

Any mre than that and we'll start docking your pay.

[Pine]

Oh we're back to this okay

Lynch me, SpyreX dies when I'm dead, no questions asked

Vote: xRECKONERx

I do not support this product and/or service, as Reck is Town.

Lynch Spyrex instead, and when he flips scum we can have you all apologize to Reck.

Except DGB, she can flail a bit more before we lynch her next. It seems like the scummier quadrant of this thread are rallying to any wagon that isn't on them or one of their buddies. See the Grimmjow wagon, then the Reck wagon. Counterwagons ahoooooooy!

(PE: I'm not sold on KK being in the aforementioned scummier quadrant, I think he's just having an off-game, as I disagree with like 90% of his reads so far despite his thought processes looking Townie.)

[Pine]

Do me a favor then. Explain your xRECKONERx town-read.

Iunno. Lots and lots of little things. A lot of gut. It's strong but I have a hard time explaining why. Perhaps some positive confirmation bias thrown in there, I'm as prone to it as anyone.

[Pine]

(sex?)

...Details?

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Sleepless Assassin

On the off-chance Spy is Town, all the softclaiming he's been doing is going to result in one of three things if left alive. First, he is what he's trying not to say he is, and scum kill him for it. Probably N1. Second, he is what he's trying not to say he is, and scum leaves him alive for WIFOM and he gets a night or two of results, protects, kills, whatevers in before he is taken down by either us or them and his results or whatever become known and confirmed by his flip. Third, he's scum and we kill him anyway a day or two down the road and confirm his reads, claimed results, or whatever as scum-motivated, and that gives us plenty of associations to work with. The 1v1 with Reck will fit into there somewhere too.

The first is Town-neutral, the second and third are Town-beneficial at best and neutral at worst. Given the remaining options for today's lynch, I'll support lynches on SA, kev, or DGB. I find the Grimmjow/Reck lynches to most likely be counter-wagons against someone I feel is probably scum, so I won't support them right now. If I'm wrong about Spy, and he's Town, then I'll give them another look.

[Pine]

Still waiting on my details.

[Pine]

Anyone have some scum meta insights on Shattered Viewpoint? I can't find any scum games of his.

[Pine]

NY 132 for a game with KK as scum. Not sure if you have that to look at in your meta, or if it's relevant.

[Pine]

Okay, after these last couple of posts, I'm off the fence on KK. He's scum.

[Pine]

There's no dissonance with [REDACTED], I've been looking in vain for

scum

games of yours for some time now, though I admit I haven't been looking especially hard. Town games of yours are easy to find, as we've played at least four games together, all of which you were Town in. So I'm not entirely sure what you're hiding behind all those redactions.

Thanks for the tip re: your wiki, I'd been doing it the old-fashioned way.

[Pine]

Please do not vig Spyrex tonight. I have a good reason for this.

[Pine]

^Back to L-1

[Pine]

Explain your night actions, Spyrex. Your plea that you had something important to do is probably why you're alive right now. So talk.

[Pine]

...No role name? Bullshit. Even the VT had a role name.

I was the one who motivated you. It was a one-shot ability, now expended. I vote we get rid of you before you do any further harm, and before my mistake helps you with it.

Vote: SpyreX

[Pine]

WELL IF TWO PEOPLE DIE TOMORROW THEN SPYREX CAN DIE BUT HE ISN'T VERY LIKELY TO BE A MAFIA WITH EXTRA KILLS LIKE THAT

BALANCE, KIDS

This is an excellent point.

Unvote

@ Pine:

Does your Role PM make it clear what night the 'motivation' takes place? Ie, were you under the impression that you would be boosting SpyreX's actions Night 1 as opposed to Night 2?

It does not make that clear, and though I was expecting it to be last night, his claim of N2 motivation is plausible.

So why did Pine motivate spyrex and then vote him when he found out spyrex is a vig.

Also rhinox's "I don't think he's scum but vote SA" was fucking scummy.

VOTE: Rhinox

PE: The last post indicates Spyrex is not paying attention to the theme of the game.
I motivated for the stated reason - he said he had something important to do, and I chose to gamble. I voted him because I didn't like the claim, however Reck's point is compelling. Your point against Rhinox is also satisfactory, and I trust Reck's judgment.

Vote: Rhinox

[Pine]

Meh. I don't care.

[Pine]

I butt heads with you when we disagree. You're super obvTown, and we've been on similar wavelengths. The trusting you comment was an afterthought.

I honestly don't care. My remaining ability will enable me to prove I'm Town, but it has some drawbacks I'm not a fan of.

[Pine]

I'm the Town manager. I have two one-shot abilities and am bulletproof until I use them. My flavor suggests that the Misled Leader was mismanaging the cult until I stepped in and fixed it. I can motivate once, and something else once. I'd rather not say what that is exactly, as it has significant pros and cons that I haven't fully evaluated yet.

PE: WHOA.

Unvote
Vote: kuribo

I think that's a big scumslip there. He's calling the cult leader "Great Leader" instead of "our Misled Leader". By flavor, he's still in the cult. BOOM, headshot.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Rhinox

Never mind, the VT sample PM in the OP uses the same term. Weird.

[Pine]

It's a claim. Obv.

[Pine]

Aha! I just figured out how to use my abilities correctly. Maybe game-breaking, too.

I have a passive ability (BP), a minor one-shot (motivate), and a major one-shot (sacrifice).

-Bulletproof keeps me alive until near-endgame
-Motivate was wasted, but I think it was mostly for role flavor
-Sacrifice. Hoo boy. As a

day action

, I can sacrifice myself. This DOES NOT END THE DAY, as it says can be taken back up until the hammer. My sacrifice would be a party that lasts until dawn...completely skipping the night phase. No scum kills, but no Town night actions either. Hence the major drawbacks I wasn't sure about.

HOWEVER, near endgame (when there's maybe six or seven people left), I can use my ability. Most of the time, there's damn few Town PRs by that time, because they've all been hunted down for small PR-slips. It would have much more impact against scum at that point.

[Pine]

I'm fairly sure I didn't stutter.

[Pine]

The flavor is that as a former Baroness and the former manager of the cult, I know a few things about keeping people happy, and also a few things about throwing a party. My sacrifice would be a party that lasts until dawn. Can't elaborate more than that at peril of quoting it directly.

Spyrex, it doesn't say exactly. Just that choosing to sacrifice is a public day action that can be taken back until hammer/deadline.

@Mod: My vote is on Rhinox, not Spyrex

@Mod: I am choosing to sacrifice myself. Is this something you would be noting in Vote Counts or some other public way?

[Pine]

Oh hey, just noticed something else. The flavor also suggests that my former gardener was recruited into the original cult on the same day I was. They probably don't want to confirm that at risk of exposing themselves, but they'll know that that part of my story is true.

[Pine]

The manager part is that I was managing an estate in southern England when recruited to the original cult, and quickly became the Misled Leader's right hand and manager. The role name is "Town Manager".

Max got back to me and said that he wouldn't be acknowledging the sacrifice in public, as it would confirm me in a way that was not intended in the design.

Sacrifice retracted

[Pine]

Hoppster's points are somewhat valid, but don't actually provide anything to contend with. I don't have a response.

I will re-register the sacrifice action if I get to L-1.

[Pine]

Fuck off, kuribo. What I said was that there was no question to answer, or false statement to contradict, or claim to counter. Most of what he says is accurate, though interpreted in the worst light possible. 1227 rectifies that.

Hopp, the Role PM does in fact use the word manager a lot. Baroness->estate manager->cult manager->Town manager. It says that during the days of the cult prior to my recruitment, the cult leader was managing both the Town and the cult's recruitment process. After he was deposed, managing the Town fell to me.

I've stated what I found difficult. I never misunderstood my role (except whether it would be publicly acknowledged), I was wrestling with the pros and cons of using it. I have now found two ways of using it to hinder Town as little as possible while causing problems for scum. The first I have explained. The second is to use it right before I'm lynched, to deny scum the advantage of compounding the problem with a free NK. I'll be lynched and we'll go directly into the next day down one player instead of two or more.

[Pine]

Kuribo, I'm really, really good at being scum. My fakeclaims are seamless. Get back on the Rhinox wagon and lynch some scum.

Votes on DGB and chunkykev are also acceptable.

[Pine]

Except I'm Bulletproof, which is what emboldened me to state my full claim and plan.

PE: Kay you got it. Kind of.

[Pine]

Why would you ask that question?

If I answer in the negative, scum go ahead with the green light to kill me. If I answer in the affirmative, scum don't have to contemplate that question in choosing whether or not to shoot at me, potentially causing me to fail to absorb a NK.

Then again, maybe I added the part about being bulletproof to screw with the scum.

[Pine]

That reason being?

[Pine]

Actually, this line of questioning is producing a level of ambiguity regarding my bulletproof status that I quite like. It might just result in scum trying and failing to roll a Will save to disbelieve, and us getting a free no-kill out of it.

[Pine]

It's theme park, what do you expect?

For seriously fucked-up roles (and a really fun game) go find Cthulhufish Mafia.

[Pine]

Point. I tend to skim OPs, only really looking for unusual rules.

[Pine]

Really, if you're ever in a game with me and you're absolutely positive I'm Town because I've done no scummy things, vote me immediately. My scum play is pretty seamless and calculated, I tend to be sloppy and brash as Town.

[Pine]

So you are voting someone you think is not scum and you're not making a case to start a wagon on someone else?

I think you and grimmjow are both scum. I've had votes on both of you, I've explained my reasons, wagons fizzled out.

I don't support the reck or spy wagons. I have a solid town read on reck and spy just doesn't feel like scum to me either.

DGB was an option at one time but that didn't feel right either.

I thought KK made a scummy post early in the game but the way he answered my questions and then moved on seemed town. Kuribo gets vote attention now and then but I think thats just because people hate the way he talks. Pine has a vote now, I just don't see the scum things people were pointing out. I think in my only modded game Pine was scum, idk if he just had a bad game or if it was because I knew his role but I remember him being extrememly obvscum with some obvious scum mistakes that were easy to pick out, and I believe thats what got him lynched iirc. I don't see anything like that here. EK is not on my radar. Lowell is probably lurkerscum. SL is not on my radar. Ellibereth is a lurker but not necessarily scum - I rememeber when he wasn't a lurker and someday I hope his former play returns. Hindur I don't have a solid read on. Zdenek I don't have a solid read on. Seraph I don't have any read on. Socio is town. SV I don't have any read on.

My position on SA hasn't really changed. I don't see scum intent in his posts, but I don't see anything that says townie either. I think its easy to pick apart what he's saying and call it scum. He could be scum, he's a good lynch for progress, I just don't expect he's actually going to flip scum. If ppl want to call that OMGFENCESITTING or whatever then fine I guess thats what it is, but reads aren't always black and white.

I don't have a strong case on anyone else. I'm not just going to fabricate a case out of thin air. Everyone is hard to read in this game.

SA is L-1 (unless I'm ninja'd with a hammer). We're right back to where we were before, only 30 pages later. This time there should be a claim.

Was going to take DGB's Mason claim at face value, but decided to double-check their ISOs. The bolded stopped me.

BTW, I'm actually reading the game closely. I can't write long cases at the moment. However, I have fewer hours next week, so maybe then.

Updated pronouncements:

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Sociopath
Hinduragi
Pine
SpyreX
Fate
Kuribo
Kublai Khan

LEANING TOWN

elvis_knits
Sleepless Assassin
springlullaby

NOT LEANING

Zdenek
Lowell >>> earlier town read not sustained.

LEANING SCUM

Chunky >>> I'm starting to doubt he's scum.

LURKERSCUM

My Milked Eek

SCUM

Rhinox

malthusis
Shattered Viewpoint
Elli
RECK
Grimmjow

Updated pronouncements:

TOWN

DrippingGoofball
Sociopath
Hinduragi
Pine
SpyreX
Kuribo
Kublai Khan

LEANING TOWN

elvis_knits
Sleepless Assassin
springlullaby

NOT LEANING

Zdenek
Lowell >>> earlier town read not sustained.

LEANING SCUM

Chunky >>> I'm starting to doubt he's scum.

LURKERSCUM

My Milked Eek

SCUM

Fate

Rhinox

malthusis
Shattered Viewpoint
Elli
RECK
Grimmjow

And then THESE little gems caused me to go "AHA! Scum forgot they planned to fakeclaim."

No, they aren't, kuribo.

[Pine]

If and when it becomes necessary. It is neither right now.

[Pine]

Double autolynch, AHOOOOY!

Hindu get your head out of your ass. We have two caught and admitted scum to lynch before we start speculating again.

Oh, and that "easy wagon" is on confirmed scum.

[Pine]

"This Rhinox shit is stupid."

DGB claimed Masons with him

I disproved that claim.

DGB more or less admitted she'd been caught.

DGB and Rhinox are scumbuddies. BOOM.

[Pine]

lolwut?

[Pine]

Hindu. She claimed Masons, got proven wrong, and is now backpedaling. I'm willing to wait and see if this dayvig thing is legit, but I see no reason to believe her until mod confirms it.

[Pine]

"This Rhinox shit is stupid."

DGB claimed Masons with him

I disproved that claim.

DGB more or less admitted she'd been caught.

DGB and Rhinox are scumbuddies. BOOM.

Don't be smart. This isn't my first mason fakeclaim for giggles.

And you think you should be rewarded for such bad play? No. You lie to Town without a damn good and demonstrable reason, you die.

[Pine]

Because it's a sound strategy, and discouraging it leads to people thinking that gambits that include lying to Town for no particularly good reason are acceptable.

[Pine]

lol, he didn't change things on the fly. No one said that. He just clarified something that I found confusing. Twist my words a little more, why don't you?

"Awesome Mason claim"? She was lying, you prat, with more holes in her story than swiss cheese, and I simply found those holes and called her on them.

So fuck you, and the horse you rode in on.

[Pine]

It really didn't say. I'm going to ignore you until you stop being a jackass.

[Pine]

The decision to fakeclaim Masons.

[Pine]

Rhinox - 0
Elli - 2

[Pine]

Hasn't claimed.

DGG has claimed Masons with Rhinox, then retracted, then she claimed Dayvig, which wasn't supported by Mod.

[Pine]

Yes.

[Pine]

This is the only one that springs to mind, though there may be others. I've also read a number of games that she's played in.

[Pine]

I was in a hydra with C-Worl that game. Name was C-Tree. Pay attention. If you'd been looking at the game with any context, you'd have figured that out right away. Instead, you looked only at an ISO and made no attempt to understand, merely desiring to use it to prop up a decision you'd already made.

I have always in the past had difficulty reading DGB. This time, however, I picked up on her scumminess right away. So where's the disconnect?

And what kind of failure to react "appropriately" to her fakeclaim did I make? I'm well aware that she sometimes gambits as Town, but I don't see that as what's going on here. Her whole interaction with Rhinox seems artificial, and the Mason fakeclaim was a genuine attempt to bail out a drowning scumbuddy. When it was revealed as deception, she tried to laugh it off with another gambit, relying on her meta of gambits to shield her.

Not this time.

[Pine]

Dammit, Reck. Control your "ooh shiny" reflex. Rhinox first.

[Pine]

Agreed. If Ellibereth flips scum, it pretty much clears Spyrex, barring bus driver or other funky mechanics. If Elli flips Town, eh. No big loss, null in regards to Spyrex.

[Pine]

Consider: there's only scum vs Town, so we can rule out SK or multiple scum teams. Scum doesn't kill scum, not even for WIFOM. Ergo, if Elli flips scum, Spyrex is confirmed, barring redirection mechanics.

And Ellibereth has done jack this game, Fate. You aren't being objective.

[Pine]

Also, only Town is going to self-sacrifice to save Elli. We lose conf. Town to save an unknown. And don't give me "they'd have to NK him later", someone is dying either way. If Elli flips Town, it's a null loss for Town in terms of numbers.

Kuribo, pull your head out of your ass. He's only confirmed if Elli flips scum, and only if we ignore bus driver mechanics.

[Pine]

Holy shit, Hoppster's right.

Unvote
Vote: springlullaby

[Pine]

By my measure, the far more relevant line in the role PM is the last one, where it specifically states alignment. You know, the nicely-colored one. By flavor, everyone was a part of the cult...that's what the aftermath is all about, the dissolution of the cult that we were all in together.

[Pine]

Hindu, the case on Spring is

not

based on her lurking. It's that she has demonstrably jumped on every wagon that has moved without good reasons, clearly trying to get anyone at all lynched. Add lurking on top of that, and you've got a solid scum case.

[Pine]

Continuing to vote Rhinox is a good place to have one's vote, though not the best place. The case on him is still quite solid, and time has done nothing to change it. What's lazy isn't voting for Rhinox, it's doing nothing to further his lynch or justify not moving over to the even better springlullaby wagon.

[Pine]

Also, the last line of 1603 is the worst kind of WIFOM. It offers speculation and proposes a bad scenario. The smart scum move is almost never to go out in a blaze of glory, it's to give yourself as many chances as possible at making a comeback. Rhinox-scum would say exactly what he just said, not hammer his buddy, and flail as much as possible looking for an escape route. Besides, if springlullaby is Town and Rhinox-scum hammered right now out of the blue, it would be tantamount to a confession and would beg a vig or Spyrex's conditional poisoner power or someone to kill him most passionately as soon as possible.

[Pine]

lol, calling anyone who has a case on her scum and not even checking who that was. Fail list. String her up.

Hindu is Town, his sacrifice doesn't look like a ploy. I thought the wording

did

have to be exact.

[Pine]

This thread is full of fail.

[Pine]

Hindu, she's talking about 1029/ISO 21. Grimm tried to catch up but fell behind. He just spoilered his wall.

kuribo, go diddle yourself a little more. I'm trying to find where you've meaningfully contributed to much of anything except a huge post count and not succeeding.

[Pine]

Pretty sure Spring Lullaby was already hammered before Spyrex did that.

[Pine]

Sure, why not. I've gambled on you already, may as well double down. Unless it outright kills me through BP, I can always use my ability.

[Pine]

Don't we already have a hammer?

[Pine]

Don't we already have a lynch?

[Pine]

Double Vote: DGB

It's time, sweet cheeks.

[Pine]

Double Vote: Hoppster

DGB tomorrow plox.

[Pine]

L-3, maybe we should put this on temporary hold so we don't accidentally quicklynch?

I'm thinking DGB tomorrow, then Chunky, then maybe Lowell.

Fate's insistence on Spyscum is baffling, considering both parts of his role are confirmed, and neither would ever be given to scum.

[Pine]

lolno.

You don't get to talk your way out of this.

You follow the cop, and then lynch the fuck out of him if he's lying. No exceptions. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

[Pine]

Still <3, Hopps.

[Pine]

L-2. Please no more votes until everyone has a chance to post. Though unlikely given the boldness of Fate's announcement and how much he's committed to it (namely that he's effectively going 1v1 with no plausible scum motivation), counter-claimants deserve an opportunity. In fact -

Double Unvote

Shame that this lovely doublevoting power is going to be wasted on a slam dunk day.

[Pine]

N1 OBV INNOCENT ON PINE WHO LIKES MY BREADCRUMB GAMBITS EH EH?

[Pine]

Dude, there's an established claim from multiple people that someone is sending night messages to people confused you? It's probably scum, and with the clarification of Fate's 1277 (which I didn't really follow until the revelation that Fate was a Cop) it looks like someone, probably from the SDC given their selection of Fate and the buddy-buddy nature of the message, was trying to set me up to be mislynched D2. I'm going to go check my D2 wagon and get back to you on this.

Hahahaha. Of course you do, DGB.

[Pine]

Not Socio, dead D1.
Unlikely Reck, he went after Spy first thing D2.
Not Spyrex, his role is established.
Fate isn't sending messages to himself.
Ellibereth is the winner!

Then again, Ellibereth didn't go for my balls D2. So who did? Hoppster pretty early...hmmmm...but Hopp backed off of the wagon early too, and then jumped right back on as soon as people started questioning it. Also, compare 1202 to 1224.

Our scum messenger is likely either Hoppster or Ellibereth, probably the former.

[Pine]

You aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

-Fate receives a message night one encouraging him to help lynch me. Fate investigates me and finds me to be innocent. Analysis of flips and revealed roles suggest Ellibereth to be the only SDC unaccounted for, and the target and nature of the message suggest an SDC member is the most likely messenger.
-Day 2, wagon starts on me. Analysis of that wagon shows the most aggressive and self-contradictory would-be lyncher, discounting confirmed Town, to be Hoppster.

Ergo, either Ellibereth or Hoppster are most likely to be the scum's messenger.

[Pine]

Can we please leave kuribo out of this? Must you encourage him? Seriously, just smack him on the nose with some rolled-up newspaper whenever he starts barking. Don't feed him bacon unless he does something to deserve a reward. Go read Pavlov, FFS.

[Pine]

Message could have been instant, prompting him to investigate me, or it could have been coincidence. Why would Fate claim me innocent when there's more plausible N1 investigations?

[Pine]

Why would I do that?

[Pine]

If you flip Town, we're lynching Fate tomorrow for being a liar. I don't see how I enter into the equation at all. When someone claims cop with a guilty, it's pretty much always {Claimed Cop, Claimed Guilty} = 1 scum. And because it's moronic for scum to expose themselves like that, you always lynch the claimed guilty first, unless you have a damn good reason not to, like a counterclaim.

[Pine]

Define bad mojo, please. Could mean suspecting that Hopp is scum giving up or suspecting that the wagon on him is bag. Not liking your noncommittal-but-seemingly-profound claptrap.

[Pine]

<3 DGB

EBWOP.

Agree with PINE.

Yes yes, E_K, Hopp is scum. That is, by this point, established. What part of "cop guilty" confused you?

DGB, please elaborate on your reasons for disbelieving Fate.

[Pine]

^Rolefishing

Either he has conclusive information from a power role, in which case he'd have said so already and nailed Fate to a wall, or he has nothing and is throwing a tantrum. Either way, Chunky's overt curiosity is rolefishing.

Pre-emptive for the logic-challenged: kuribo's objection to the cop claim and DGB's objection are very different. Kuribo's implies specificity but lacks an explicit counter, DGB's is general and she won't elaborate.

[Pine]

^Scum logic. You

always

follow the cop unless there's a hard counterclaim.

[Pine]

Or if it's LyLo/MyLo. Scum have nothing to lose in that situation.

[Pine]

He would have by now. He's been raging so hard against Fate, if he had solid evidence he'd have rubbed it in everyones' faces.

[Pine]

By my quick count we're only waiting on Ellibereth and Lowell to post since day start (surprise surprise). Spyrex also hasn't posted since Fate's claim, but he's not going to claim cop on top of his already wtf role.

DGB: Are you going to hard counterclaim Fate or not?
kuribo: Are you going to hard counterclaim Fate or not?

Answers in your next post, please. We're waiting on you and your coyness is getting annoying.

[Pine]

Yeah, you going to counterclaim Fate's cop claim or guilty verdict on Hoppster?

[Pine]

1. Some night actions do in fact work that way, it depends on the mod. Communication powers in particular. I'd give you a prime example, but it's ongoing. Remind me after the game and I'll rub your nose in it.
2. If you had solid evidence, like being a Watcher and having watched me N1 and seen no Fate, that would have been the first thing you'd have said. Period.
3. I didn't start at Hopp and work my way backwards to SDC. Hopp isn't even in the SDC you idiot. I took what I knew about the messenger: A) They chose Fate, indicating a probability that they've worked together before. B) They asked him to help lynch someone, indicating they may know him well enough to push the right buttons to get him to do it. As the SDC fits both of those criteria, I started there and was able to eliminate everyone but Ellibereth. THEN I looked at my D2 wagon. The only ones who went right for the throat were Spyrex and Hoppster. Spy is not the messenger, his role is already public. That leaves Hopp. He jumped on immediately, jumped off when I explained myself, citing that he "believed in my flavor". 20ish posts later, when the wagon picks back up, he's back on the wagon, saying my flavor is implausible. Therefore, Ellibereth or Hopp are our

most likely

messenger candidates, Hopp being more likely. Again, just in case you weren't paying attention, I started with one presumption, ended with something completely different.
4. I've never played with Fate before, so I've never seen him pull a Town gambit. Kindly fuck yourself.

[Pine]

Wait for Ellibereth to have a chance at CCing Fate. I also want a straight answer out of DGB.

Hopp, feel free to claim.

[Pine]

Straight answer, DGB. Do you have a solid reason to dispute Fate's claim, or not?

And Fate last posted about 13 1/2 hours ago. He didn't damn well disappear.

[Pine]

Double Vote: Hoppster

Fuck it.

[Pine]

I'm not going to believe a claim from Hopp over a Cop that's committing to a (correct) Town result on me, and I have independent reasons to suspect Hopp. Everyone trying to discredit Fate's claim are either scummy or stupid, and I'm just too impatient to wait for Ellibereth.

PE: Ellibereth is the only one to not have checked in FUCKING PAY ATTENTION.

[Pine]

What part of 'impatient' was confusing? I'm hopped up on caffeine, sleep-deprived, and haven't taken my ADHD meds. 24-48 hours from now, maybe more, is a fucking eternity.

[Pine]

Vote: Fate

Hopp, you have my apologies. Fate, if you do flip Town, you will not. This is why unsubstantiated gambits are not pro-Town, and why my vote will not be budging without a ridiculously good reason.

[Pine]

Whoops, I missed that. Umm, compelling reason found.

Unvote
Vote: chunkykev

Yep.

[Pine]

Umm, please stop rolefishing, Spy. You're not doing Town any favors.

[Pine]

He also claimed to receive a message asking him to help support my mislynch.

Just let Fate die.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: DGB

Acceptable.

[Pine]

I find the case made by myself and others to still be quite valid.

[Pine]

OK them just lynch me.

I've breadcrumbed my results. Find them after I'm dead.

See, this is why I have a hard time believing DGB's massive AtE defense. If you actually had results that could help the Town, then you'd actually claim them in the face of a mislynch, rather than risk your crumbs being misinterpreted.

So, let's hear them. You get the same deal as Fate. I'll vehemently follow the cop claim until you lie to me, at which point I'll vigorously lynch your ass.

[Pine]

DGB's trying to make AtE mean 'Appeal to Emo'

[Pine]

No claim for N1 or N3. That would be three confirmed Townies (barring Godfather) you could hand us on a silver platter, which could potentially turn this game around for Town and put us in a position to win despite the shit that's happened. Giving everyone the bird and giving up with that possibility is NOT the action of a real cop. Hand us two more Townies, because I'm not seeing your breadcrumbs.

[Pine]

Just stop being cryptic and roleclaim with results.

[Pine]

Fine. If you're Town, please put together a list of reads we can go from when you flip. Reasons for your scumreads please. You've called me scum several times in the past page or so (out of the blue) and I don't see a reason among them. You've gone back and forth on Lowell, with him back to scum since your reversal on him and Ellibereth in your "80%" post.

[Pine]

DGB, you clearly want out of this game, and don't care about it's conclusion or whether you win. Would you consider replacing out?

[Pine]

Unvote: DGB

You aren't at L-1 anymore. Now, if you're Town and truly don't care, replace out and fuck off. You're not only a horrible detriment to Town and making the situation even worse, you're guilty of plain old bad sportsmanship. I'll deal with a replacement actually committed to extricating themselves from the pile of shit you've left them in rather than someone arrogantly trying to screw their own team in a hissy fit.

If you're scum and playing an AtE long con, feel free to stick around and hang.

[Pine]

Desperation? I don't get where you read desperation. I've been a proponent of a DGB lynch from early D1.

And if you're in agreement on the DGB lynch, where's your vote?

Lowell next.

[Pine]

DGB won't replace out.

What this tells me: she cares about winning or losing this game.

What that tells me: This fit she's thrown is fakerage.

Asking her to replace out was a

test

.

She failed.

If she said yes, then her replacement might be, in fact probably would be, Town. I have trouble believing someone with a Town role would be this aggressively and intentionally anti-Town. If she refused to replace, that means she still had a stake in the game, and her anger at this game and professed desires to get out of is were fabricated.

Vote: DGB

[Pine]

See, now that the heat on DGB has died a little, she no longer wants to quit the game and tell the Town to go blow itself. Now she's participating.

Scum.

[Pine]

I'm not getting lynched. If people desire my death, it'll be with me using my universal roleblock bomb.

[Pine]

Are you drunk?

[Pine]

Fourteen players.

Elli makes minus 1.

Thirteen players.

We have 5-6 scum.

One mislynch, one town NK, we're only 11 players including as much as 5-6 scum... we'll be outscummed tomorrow if we keep playing like numbskulls.

NO PLAYER SHOULD SACRIFICE THEMSELVES FOR ANYONE - otherwise we'll just lose the numbers game.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Chunkykev

DGB, both Reck and I were given drugs N2 that made us doublevoters on D3. His power is odd-night modified poisoner, even-night double-vote granter. He could one-shot give it to two people because I motivated him N1. You clearly are not actually reading this game, and need to start paying the fuck attention.

[Pine]

I'm in the car right now, but I'll check on that when we get to relatives' house. If KK or E_K ever expressed suspcion, they're done. Their reaction to DGB's Mason gambit will also be important.

She claimed Tracker. Hopp-Seraphim-Lowell, no results any time.

[Pine]

The D1 vote count tells me {Lowell, Katsuki} must be 1-2 scum. I don't expect you to believe that, DGB, but when I flip Town, keep that in mind, k?

[Pine]

In fact,

Unvote
Vote: Katsuki

[Pine]

Honestly, I don't know why you chose Lowell. If I were scum, there's no way I'd have had Lowell do the kill. He was too suspected, and Trackers are too dangerous. Of course, choosing the track and killer is a big ball of WIFOM, and the point is moot anyway.

When you lay out the vote counts like that, I look scummy even to me >_>

This is why I don't feel VCA is effective in most cases. False positives are just as common as catching actual scum.

[Pine]

This game will look a hell of a lot different if we lynch Katsuki-Seraphim-Kev, maybe get some poison on one of them if Spy is allowed to live that long. Then we can debate who the last 1-2 are from Reck, Lowell, and Zdenek.

[Pine]

Fate WTF. Elvis is a claimed Mason, and cursory examination finds it plausible. Extricate head from ass.

[Pine]

You may invoke your heathen blood god, I you wish.

PFFT. I'M ON A PHONE TOO, FOOL. DON'T MAKE ME GO ALL MR. T ON YOUR PITIFUL ASS. AT LEAST IT ALL WORKED OUT AND WE'RE ON THE RIGHT TRACK NOW

[Pine]

It is, actually. Your meta on me is not nearly as complete as you think it is.

[Pine]

Ooooh, this is true. Hmm, have to consider the ramifications of this. We'd lose an extra Townie, so it would be like universal roleblock on everyone except scum kill on me. It would protect five confirmed Town though.

Yeah, I'll do it.

Mod: I will be sacrificing myself.

For the record, I'm not Bulletproof. That's why there was an inconsistency in that part of my claim. I was trying to protect my power role for an occasion like this. Successfully, it looks like. Everything else I said is true though.

[Pine]

chunkykev---------------Probably scum
DrippingGoofball--------Town Tracker
elvis_knits-------------Town Mason
Fate--------------------Town
Katsuki-----------------Today's lynch
Kublai Khan-------------Town Mason
Lowell------------------Probably scum
Pine--------------------Town, tonight's death
Seraphim----------------Probably scum
SpyreX------------------Town
xRECKONERx--------------Unknown. May be scum due to PoE
Zdenek------------------Unknown. May be scum due to PoE

Assuming five starting scum and a scumflip from Katsuki, tomorrow will be 7 Town vs 3 scum. If we mislynch today (unlikely) it will be 6v4 and MyLo.

I suggest Katsuki today, Seraphim tomorrow, and Spy poisons Reck. Just call that last a gut feeling.

[Pine]

Hmm, not sure on Lowell and Chunkykev. I have a feeling that one, but not both are scum. Not sure which is which. I don't think Zdenek is scum.

[Pine]

Checked the EK & KK ISOs. Nothing whatsoever contradicts their Masons claim. In fact, it supports it strongly. Both committed to the other as Town right off the bat with no hesitation and no wavering. Neither posted between DGB claiming Mason and her admitting it was a gambit, so their reactions to that are not diagnostic.

Reck trying to make the Mason claim questionable sounds really suspicious to me. Like his team went from being in full control of this game a few pages ago to completely on the run. Pretending he didn't know about my role ability is even more suspicious, considering he was involved in the discussion wherein I revealed it on D2.

Reck goes next. I'm pretty confident about this now.

[Pine]

Pretty obvious that I will. I gave away my Bulletproof gambit, why'd I do that if I didn't mean it?

Oh hey, guess what. Our confirmed Town list is up to six. I'm not bullshitting when I say that I have a good-strength scumread on Reck that has cropped up in the last few pages based on his reactions to recent events.

And fakeclaiming Masons now is actually somewhat risky. A pair of real Masons, which is reasonable considering more than half of the playerbase is alive, could fuck their day UP right now.

[Pine]

^This is the problem with Reck as Town. This attitude would fly half a dozen pages ago when we had no confirmed Townies and two Townies were about to be killed by other Townies. Now that we have enough cleared to narrow down PoE to almost guaranteed win, Reck suddenly declares DGB can't be trusted and Town is suddenly horribad.

Reckscum, yo.

[Pine]

^Misrep. She's not clearing no-results, she's just deprioritizing them

[Pine]

Yeah. That's called deprioritization. If she had false Townreads, she'd have said all four were Town.

You come off as desperate to discredit the growing Town coalition that is growing against you and your buddies. Too bad, should have joined up and bussed.

[Pine]

Also, a negative Tracker result guarantees that if the target is indeed scum, they are a Goon. As we should be taking down scum PRs in preference to Goons, kindly sit down and shut the fuck up.

[Pine]

lol, read the thread.

I'm already dying at the end of the day. I'm Town.

Vote yourself or Reck. Those are the only options today.

[Pine]

My condolences, Reck. I've been there.

[Pine]

Everyone was quick off DGB when the modkill happened. The modkill proved DGB Town, as it was a major slip elsewhere that he knew DGB was Town. Pay attention.

Chunky's last two posts continue to be scum. Questioning the validity of Masons and even my suicide, continuing to go after Lowell when there's proof that Lowell is not a scum PR, weak condemnation of other major scumreads...yeah. Scum.

[Pine]

Chunkykev is not town.

I was thinking of that on my drive this morning. With two Trackers, a Ninja is also much more likely than usual.

[Pine]

I don't have a problem with lynching Lowell. Based on actions in the thread alone, he's one of the scummiest players left alive that isn't confTown. However, a null tracking result makes the

priority

of his lynch decreased. Speculation on possible ways to avoid a Tracker is all well and good, but the odds of dodging said tracker are not super. Odds are very likely that he's a goon, and not the PREFERRED lynch for the day.

[Pine]

Warning

Wallpost ahead. Contained within the spoiler is a critical dissection of SV's entire ISO, minus those points which lack relevant content. SV insists his strategy is different from that of NS, so I'm entering this with NO preconceived notions about him except one thing: in this game, SV ended up being scum.

Spoiler: ISO of SV's Content

Hi. Some reads:

Reck

-- unsure, but he's ALWAYS hard to read for me. I'll be keeping a very close eye on him.

chunkykev

: Was kinda scummish, not as much now. Will also keep an eye on.

elvis

: Bizarre, but I've never played mafia with her before; I only know her from GD/MD/62. Will watch.

SpyreX

: Another one that's notoriously hard for me to read.

kuribo

: I'm biased, because I still loathe him from our last game. Will try to be objective.

Fate

: Fuck me running, I still hate this guy. Useless, and likely scum. His joking of bussing is likely not a 'gambit' or 'ploy' so he's probably pretty much the scum mouthpiece.

KK

: Don't think I've played with him before; must read older games.

DGB

: Always scum. Always.

Elli

: always scummy-looking, but never scum. Absolute town here.

Grimm

: Don't know him; had a dream of him recently which makes me wary; reserving judgment.

Hindu

: Must refrain from kneejerking on him. He's probably town or 3rd party.

Rhinox

: Annoying avatar, what else needs to be said?

Lurkalicious

Lowell

: Pssh. Non-entity.

Okay, right off the bat, a pattern jumps out at me. SV is giving strong opinions on Town, whether they're positive or negative. There's a couple of exceptions for people with low post counts up to this point, but it is still a pattern forming. On the people I suspect are scum, the people who also happen to still be alive and unconfirmed, he waffles or gives no real opinion. Let's see if the pattern continues.

Okay, so. Reality visited me the last couple of days. In the future, you will most likely be hearing my Great Wisdom much more frequently.

Now, who to choose.

Rhinox

and

DGB

are quite scumalicious currently.

Hmmm. Eeny, meeny, miny, mo.

unvote

Vote:

DGB

Again strong opinions on Town, ends up voting Town.

Shattered, how does

kuribo

's play compare to the game that has you biased?

His anger seems to be for show this game; it feels rather forced. The other game, he was genuinely pissed (with good reason, I suppose).


Forgot to post this.

More strong opinions on Town.

While

kuribo

is vastly entertaining, hes certainly not acting very pro-town here.

unvote

Vote:

kuribo

And again.

@Shattered

- Could you please answer my question in post #572?

No. I have bigger fish to fry at the moment.

I'd rather be lynched than persevere in a game full of cranky people while my life sucks eggs.

That is not a town attitude. Town should never want to be lynched.

Hello, if I had a second vote, it would be on you. This is terrible.

Please, for the retarded among us, explain this. What is so terrible? I'm not seeing it.

slightly scummy null.

BAND NAME!!

Hindu, I still don't understand your plan, but I suspect that it's stupid.

zdenek, I didn't notice that fate directed the vig. That's also scummy.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: scum skim. IGMEOY.

Do you REALLY think Grimmjow's town or are you defending him because you're boyfriends?

Dude, that's low. Seriously. I expected better of you.

unvote

Vote:

Hinduragi

Again, strong opinions against Town

Hindu

and

Elvis

.

Guys Spy is scum

This Spy wagon needs more votes

Also, how is Shattered avoiding any more attention? He is one of my top scum choices just now.

Hush now, the adults are talking.

This is an interesting post. He is dismissive of two of my top suspects, but doesn't actually engage them. The pattern continues.

*GASP*. Kuribo just dropped a massive town tell. The "wow, scum have been talking" thing looks legit.

Which is PRECISELY why he did it. The guy is

masterful

as scum. Mark my words.

don't forget Shattered Viewpoint after his stunning lurk-to-victory tactic that gave Spyscum the win in the last game we were all in together

The one point you're missing here, Genius, is that I was TOWN in that game. Can you connect the dots without drooling too much, or should I do it for you?

Straight up strong attack on two Townies.

I take them ALL on. I said I was going to win so I'd be lynching one of them. If I don't lynch scum, I die.

I'll accept the hell out of this offer.

Good.

Great, so nothing for 48 hours, then you post ONE FUCKING WORD?

Die, scum, die.

My vote stands.

Another strong negative opinion on a Townie. At this point, he has still said nothing strongly negative against anyone left alive that is unconfirmed.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: scum skim. IGMEOY.

On elvis. How about vote?

I just prefer my vote elsewhere for now.

I still think that SV is bad. Now for what seems like a blatant lie in 849.

Here's the referenced post:

*GASP*. Kuribo just dropped a massive town tell. The "wow, scum have been talking" thing looks legit.

Which is PRECISELY why he did it. The guy is

masterful

as scum. Mark my words.

don't forget Shattered Viewpoint after his stunning lurk-to-victory tactic that gave Spyscum the win in the last game we were all in together

The one point you're missing here, Genius, is that I was TOWN in that game. Can you connect the dots without drooling too much, or should I do it for you?

Where's the lie?

Deflects against Zdenek, does not engage Zdenek himself while reiterating a point against Town.

Anyone have some scum meta insights on Shattered Viewpoint? I can't find any scum games of his.

All my games are in my wiki. I even updated it today, just for you.

Also, since I can't [REDACTED] an [REDACTED] [REDACTED], I can't possibly mention that you [REDACTED] [REDACTED] my games [REDACTED] and even gave [REDACTED] -- but now, here, you're [REDACTED] [REDACTED][REDACTED]?

It's either rolefishing or you're [REDACTED]. I think I'll tak the second option.

unvote

Vote:

Pine

Strong opinion and attack on Town.

no, i totally do for the right price

What's your price, big boy?


Also, I think it's time for a vote-change:

unvote

Vote:

Sleepless Assassin

This is

Oh, look! A shiny wagon:

Vote:

Rhinox

My work thing took a day longer than I thought it would. I've skimmed recent posts; need to analyze, which will likely come tonight.


Wait, is

Rhinox

married or not?



P-Edit: ITT

DGB

can't read.

This is really interesting. Two wagon hops in a row, neither of which he has posted good reasons for, both on Town. Throws in an attack on Town at the end.

Huh, forgot that this game had no deadlines.

To All: Why are you ignoring springlullaby / my push on springlullaby?

(There is probably a subtle difference between the two and I can't tell which it is.)


I'm satisfied with a Rhinox lynch but I really do prefer a springlullaby lynch, and since there's no deadlines I feel that everybody voting Rhinox should take a look at springlullaby.

Her recent posts show that she clearly isn't trying but somehow she is being allowed to just coast lazily through today.

Wait.

Hold on.

There's no

deadline???

and also, if we lynch springlullaby and shattered viewpoint, does that mean i'll be able to talk about my anatomy again?

Honey, you can talk about your dick all you want, but you have to send me a picture first.

Does Elli usually play the lurktacular style?

I don't necessarily need SpyreX to be the one to answer this, though it'd be nice if he did too.

Elli

puts ME to shame in the lurking department.

Does that answer your question sufficiently?



In other news, I'm (reasonably) convinced.

unvote

Vote:

spring lullaby

Strong opinion on Town, and a third surprise wagon jump onto Town.

The meta stands, like the cheese, alone.

You

do

lurk very well, generally. Don't even try to deny it.

Attack on

Elli

(Town).

DGB

is so painfully, painfully town right now.

Unexpectedly busy, sorry.

Let's not lynch

DGB

. Pretty sure she's town.

Be back with more words tomorrow.

I just don't see

elvis

as scum. Sure, she's lurky, but maybe that's her style. I can't recall that I've ever played with her before.

DGB

is maddeningly, infuriatingly bad right now.

And I've always hated

Lowell

's lurking.

Switch from strong negative to strong positive on two Townies. First strong opinion on an unconfirmed survivor.

approval from DGB, it's not like she has sway over this game

What fucking planet are you ON, dude??

DGB

took over this fucking game for something like FOURTEEN BAJILLION PAGES with her bullshit whining about apathetic bullshit so apathetic I can't even recall the details.

Please do try to pay attention.

I'm thinking

Reck

/

DGB

scumteam, at the VERY least.

Vote:

Reck

Final post is the most interesting one. Here he opportunistically jumps on a Townie going down and Reck, who opinion is starting to turn against. More on this in my unspoilered summary.

Summary

: Shattered Viewpoint established a very clear-cut policy against giving strong opinions in either direction about his scumbuddies. At one point or another, SV gave a firm up or down opinion on every Townie, dead and alive. Even when someone from the surviving unconfirmed directs a question at him, he deflects it, or at least does not comment on the questioner's alignment. His final two posts are the most interesting, as he suddenly gives opinions on Lowell and Reck. Reck in particular is a strong negative opinion, at a point in time where general feelings were starting to turn against Reck. This is an opportunistic, predatory attack, and to my surprise, softclears Reck. His second to last post also expresses a firm negative opinion on Lowell out of nowhere, so Lowell may tentatively be cleared as well.

Let's look at who remains:

zdenek

: Chainsaws for zdenek in 700, against someone he previously called obvTown. Simply answers a question in 985. Zdenek drops the attack on SV.

seraphim

: 1494 is the

only

post where either mentions the other.

Katsuki/Grimmjow

: Noncommittal in 270, chainsaws for Grimm in 700, non-interaction in 1584.

chunkykev

: Noncommittal in 270, deflects attention by chunky in both 700 and 847.

There's your scumteam. If I'm wrong about one, the remainder is Lowell.

Good game, folks.

[Pine]

Your Scummy nomination is not necessary, but appreciated.

[Pine]

No.

Unvote
Vote: Seraphim

[Pine]

I don't care that Reck vouched for Grimm. Reck is wrong.

Fate, order doesn't matter so much any more. I've got the scumteam discovered.

[Pine]

Sounds fine to me. We lynch Seraphim, then Katsuki, then chunky (I have no idea what ass DGB is pulling a Townread on him out of) then Zdenek. If the game is still on, we lynch Lowell for the win.

[Pine]

Actually, everyone RIGHT NOW post your guess as to the four-person scumteam, with one auxiliary. Mine is above.

This is so people will be unable to pull a fast one later in the game. Cards on the table nao.

[Pine]

I've thought Seraphim's claim over some more. I do not, under any circumstances, believe that there are two Town roles that enforce a universal roleblock and effectively skip the night phase. No.

Get back on Seraphim, and remove him from confirmed Town lists.

[Pine]

Unvote
Vote: Katsuki

Just in case.

Remember, Reck is Town, chunkykev, Seraphim, and zdenek are scum. Lowell is your auxiliary scum target.

I'm out, and go Town!

[Pine]

^Scum. Tries to go after confirmed Town, supports a ridiculous fakeclaim.

Remember the above post tomorrow, k? Changed my mind, I'd like Zdenek lynched first. K? Blood for the blood whoever.

[Pine]

Do you think that there is c.d. in DGB's post?

No. I think real people change their minds over time, and I think you're pushing the CD button to discredit her. Which is a scummy thing to do.

[Pine]

Oh hey. In the above post, zdenek scumclaims. Missed it?

He confirmed Katsuki as scum. Still not seeing it? Go back to what zdenek calls CD. He's saying the second quote uses scum ISO. To Town, this is not confirmed yet. But to Kat's buddy, it makes sense.

Good game, zdenek.

[Pine]

No, she doesn't. In fact, neither did Grimm. The only thing anyone has presented in Katsuki's defense that sounds even plausible is that Grimm has a meta of not replacing out of scum slots. And honestly, when he replaced out, this thread was moving crazy fast and there was suspicion on him. I think this is the exception to that rule.