The Children of Húrin Mafia (GREAT REVIVAL)

[Nachomamma8]

ANDRIUS.

I GLANCED THROUGH YOU"R POSTS TO SEE IF YOU WERE TOWN. YOU ARE.

DON'T DECEIVE ME. DON'T BREAK MY HEART.

[Nachomamma8]

To be honest? I didn't look at the role pm yesterday, no. Most of yesterday (game day) I was posting from my phone and that's a pain in the ass. I knew I was Turin and vig. I think I once took a quick look to make sure I didn't have a surname in it (I don't), but I was in a hurry at the time. I totally glanced over that if I kill town something bad definitely happens. It was in the "active" part of my role, which I guess I glazed over since "active" for vig is pretty obvious. In my role name, it's called "Descending" and that didn't immediately register any bells.

I can't remember if I said I was compulsive before or not; if I didn't, I meant to, and I just wanted to make sure the information got out there in case I didn't. I knew I was compulsive, but to be honest, it was 100% at the back of my mind.

Also, I can't replace out as Amrun because CSL still wants to participate. (I tried to do this already, actually.) He posts in our hydra every once in awhile, and last night he posted in the neighbor qt... I can't get him to post here, idk.

But I post a lot on the go and from my phone, and switching accounts isn't facilitated there. Not posting except from the hydra account was one of the things that kept me from posting before... I would think, "When I get home to a computer, I'll read/post" and that never, ever happened.ugh

I do apologize for that, though. I'm pretty much not doing hydras anymore except special circumstances when I can be more certain of motivation-to-post-in-hydra and partner-post-rate.

Also, I definitely have some reading to do before understanding what exactly is going on, but any vig who somehow doesn't know that her shots might do something bad if they hit town, and yet is compulsive, and also isn't active because her hydra partner won't post here but refuses to replace out because he wants to participate but won't... all of it sounds pretty fucking deserving of a vote.

[Nachomamma8]

OH SHIT I claimed because CSL told me someone had a guilty on us, but I just realized that MoI also claimed Turin!

That most likely means he's scum, but I suppose I could conceive of a possibility where there were two Turins, due to bastard game ... I am not sure scum would claim here like this.

BUT ... two Turins is not something we should probably trust, so MoI is most likely also scum.

This is good.

Even if I am lynched for this, which I shouldn't be, but even if I am, hopefully my death can accomplish something in this counterclaim.

-Amrun

p-edit:

I didn't claim cop, so I only see one level of counterclaim.

I AM a miller, so him claiming a guilty on me isn't automatically scum.

Vote: Sun and Moon

[Nachomamma8]

...and holy fuck am I tired. But I've been procrastinating a little too long on making this post, and I figure I might as well make it so I didn't read this game for nothing.

Andrius:
Not sure what to think as far as he goes. The whole "my role is unknown" schtick is a bit weird, considering that it began with the claim that he didn't have a role, and ended with him saying that his role is "unknown", something he only mentions after Empking tries twice to give him a role. I wouldn't be surprised at all if my bro turned up mafia, and is using the "unknown" crap as an excuse to screw around. From a setup standpoint, I feel like it's more likely that Empking gave out a town role to one and a scum role to the other as opposed to a town role to one and yet is somehow unable to give a role to the other. That, and I find myself pretty fucking dubious that one of the roles that Plum put in the game was "UNKNOWN". Yes, this is a bastard game, but even a bastard game doesn't have a use for a role that has no motivation to play.

MoS:
I can pretty confidently peg MoS as town. He had a bit of a lurking streak in the beginning, but after the Peregrine lynch, he steps it up and begins analyzing a lot more. Things that I especially liked were his attacks on Magna (inaccurate but too ballsy for scum), the attacks on Feysal throughout the game, and the fact that he did not allow the feysal vote to prevent him from pursuing other avenues (in other words, he didn't just park his vote and disappear).

Dekes/Regfan:
Not seeing the Dekes scum that everyone else seems to see. I like him questioning people putting him on town lists early, and I also want to point out that he was one of the only people who stepped back to examine the Empking situation. And while I don't exactly like the was he handled the Sun and Moon issue, I can completely understand where he's coming from. Regfan is also pretty townie, especially based on his request to be recruited by the Seraphs. I don't see a reason why scum would request to be recruited in such a manner (if he were scum trying to be recruited, chances are that he wouldn't just go out and say it, and chances are it wouldn't be him that the scum Seraphs would be pushing to be recruited.

Mockingjaye:
I don't like mockingjaye mainly for her opportunistic tunneling on kanye. She has been very focused on him pretty much the entire game, and really hasn't provided a strong second suspicion. In fact, the only time when mockingjaye has voted for ANYONE other than kanye is when she made her quick vote of smargaret. Notice how the vote was not accompanied with any sort of explanation at all: it seemed far more like a bus vote on a partner to avoid suspicion than anything else.

Gut:
Gut is probably town. There's the Seraph interactions and strong scumhunting backing him up, although I really don't like his floaty period inbetween his Vitamin suspicion and his suspicion of me.

And now my laptop is dying so this will continue later.

[Nachomamma8]

Alright, to expand on what I wrote on Gut last time:

Gut's Seraph interactions:
I thought that the Empking gambit was something that, from a scum perspective, really didn't make a whole lot of sense unless it was on a partner. In doing something like that, Gut ran the risk of actually getting Empking lynched, which, if town, would be something that would end up exposing him while in the quicktopic and would force his seraph to boot him out. In addition, it would leave Gut looking terrible in the eyes of the town seraphs, and in the eyes of everyone else. There's also the fact that I have played with scumCES before, and his play all those times was much, much more lurky and much, much less aggressive.

kkb:
First of all, there is SpyreX. SpyreX is confirmed town and had a pretty fucking powerfully strong town read on kanye, and because Spyspy is Spyspy, I think that's definitely something that I would keep in mind. Otherwise, I haven't found a whole bunch of problem with his posting; he does bring a lot of good points to the table, and he has been pretty solidly townie.

Herodotus:
LordChronos didn't really do a whole bunch of shit except be a hypocrite, so not really factoring him into this. I'm getting a decently strong scum-read on Herodotus, though. He has a few bad interactions with Espeonage/smargaret, he has had a few opportunistic moments, and he is defending mockingjaye in an awkward kind of way. Will expand on this later since it seems like the proper kind of case.

[Nachomamma8]

And now, the rest:
Ludi and Sun and Moon are town by warrant of mason claim.
Feysal and Furcolow are third party.
MoS and MoI are probably town thanks to smargaret's mixup, MoI an additional town++ for being the target of the opportunistic 1v1 game.
Empking is probably town for giving gandalf his role.

[Nachomamma8]

That, and I find myself pretty fucking dubious that one of the roles that Plum put in the game was "UNKNOWN". Yes, this is a bastard game, but even a bastard game doesn't have a use for a role that has no motivation to play.

And giving really sucky roles to gandalf is acceptable, is what you're saying? Yeah, you're scum.

Gandalf was given a role that, while it did begin as UNKNOWN, was easily remedied during the night by Empking's role (in case you didn't notice, he was given a two-shot killing power, which, while not the best of roles, is a role with an alignment and a role with potential. I also note that it is also a highly provable role in case gandalf got in trouble for the first day of not having a role, and gives two shots in one night to town (it's also a far cry better than the suicide-bombing double vanillaizer in OoT mafia).

Andrius claims to be given a role that begins as UNKNOWN and that's the role. He apparently is not affected by the role giver, and he also apparently still has not received his role in four game days. There is a very massive difference in putting a role in the game that does not know role/alignment at the beginning of the game, but learns quite quickly as opposed to putting a role in the game that does not know role and alignment, which is utterly stupid. There is literally zero motive for Andrius to play the game, unless he just plays it like town and HOPES he guessed right.

Drawing this distinction really doesn't qualify me as scum, though, so I don't see at all how you're drawing that conclusion.

[Nachomamma8]

So Nacho is posting a paragraph about each player as he evaluates them, and is only through a few people so far? Note how he declares that Mastermind's attacks on Magna were inaccurate, but didn't put up a paragraph about Magna. Has he already decided Magna is town? Why wouldn't that paragraph precede the one on Mastermind?

1. Andrius
2. Magister Ludi (replacing ooba replacing Magister Ludi)
3. Sun and Moon (CSL + Amrun hydra)
6. Nachomamma8 (replacing Ellibereth)
7. Mastermind of Sin
8. Dekes
10. mockingjaye
11. Furcolow
12. Gut (Cogito Ergo Sum + chamber hydra)
15. Feysal (replacing Katsuki)
16. kanyeknowsbest
18. Empking
20. MagnaofIllusion
22. Herodotus (replacing LordChronos)

I'm having trouble taking your accusation seriously since the order of players that I do analysis on doesn't matter in any universe, or in any game. As for why I didn't post them all in one go, I made that perfectly clear in my post.

[Nachomamma8]

1. Regardless of what I think of their alignments they aren’t Masons.
2. This is why you think Amrun is Town? Not the fact that she’s claimed a killing role that doesn’t have any likelihood of being Mafia?
3. Why in the hell did you vote for Amrun to begin with?

1. Let me correct myself: One is a miller sibling vigilante, and the other is a sibling.
2. Amrun is town because of her claim, yes.
3. Because I saw a miller claim after a cop guilty claim, and reacted instinctively.

This was Nacho's playerslot's only interaction with Espeonage: FoS'ing him in a weak manner while voting for town.

Lurkers don't really have a whole lot of interactions with other playerslots. That's why we hate them, and that's why we call them lurkers.

While I'll admit that this may be confirmation bias and it may not convince anyone, it just looks scummy to me.

You are criticizing the ORDER of my cases.
The ORDER.
That is reaching. I can handle your other accusations, but this one is just stupid.

So, everyone is town except for me, and maybe Herod who is defending me, and maybe Andy but not really?

There's more to it than you point out, but I don't really have time for that. So I acknowledge your posting, and raise you an IOU.

[Nachomamma8]

If I understand correctly, this "floaty period" was Day 3 in which Gut proposed the gambit with Empking that you commented on, defended a townie, and lynched scum. How is that floaty?

Proposing the gambit was townie, yes, but it didn't do much for in thread action.
And there is a massive difference in defending a townie and lynching scum as opposed to what actually occurred, which is Gut mentioned that a townie was town and voted for scum. The aggressive, active, scum-searching is more or less what I'm looking for, less of the accuracy.

@Nachom: Do you believe that any mafia voted for either of Sun and Moon or Empking yesterday?

Maybe, probably, why do I care?

Mockingjaye, your main concern is that I have too few scum reads. This is true. I'm looking at some of my townreads and reevaluating, slowly. What I meant for the IOU to apply on is explaining that kanye read... I'm afraid the small amount of scum reads is more of an i owe everyone sort of deal...

[Nachomamma8]

There are likely 4 scum left, and without 3rd party like Feysal and I siding with the town, you all are going to be screwed
I have confirmed Feysal isn't scum, unless he was recruited by smargaret's slot

yo furcolow
i learned about appeal to fear when i first read the wiki
if you wanted to "side with town"
then you should have done that a long time ago.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm here, but not quite ready to make the post I wanted quite yet.

If MoS is not posting anywhere, I don't really see how he's avoiding the thread. Or even why he would. If I remember correctly, he didn't mind going toe to toe with MoI yesterday, and so there's no reason for him to suddenly feel so much fear now.

[Nachomamma8]

Please discuss your thoughts on Andy now that he has flipped scum. You really were loathe to commit to a read on him yesterday.

Not quite sure what you want from me here.

[Nachomamma8]

MoI, could you clarify what you wanted me to comment on about Andrius?