Kingmaker II-Game Over

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

PJ is the king?

this day is gonna take forever >.<

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why r scum obligated to hit the Kingmaker again?

If they wanted to deny us information they could use a bloody dartboard.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like one thing I don't get, is that if we wanted a confirmed innocent to make the choice everytime, wouldn't we just have the KingMaker claim and direct the king? even if they kill the KMer, it's not like we're going to lose anything since we'd just get a new one.

And if scum counterclaim KMer, all we'd have to do is get the KMer a list of 2 people to appoint as King/Backup and the CounterClaimer a list of 2 other people to appoint and when the next day dawns we'll know which side was lying and be able to execuete accordingly.

It's not like we can run out of Kingmakers!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

way to say nothing Twomz

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

wait, watch as I do the same thing but with more brevity and wit!

wait for it now...

anytime....

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nothing

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

You see that?

True Skill right there, flawless delivery with amazing grace and wit.

Wow the crowd is still going wild.



So next time you're going to say nothing, don't waste valuable pixel space, just say it and be proud damnit. No need to hide the fact that you're brave enough to stand up to King PJ and his attackdog Glork and not willing to knuckle under to their unreasonable demands.

Last time I was caught by Islamic Terrorists in Afghanistan and they tried to pump me for information, I didn't say a bloody word, they tortured me for 3 years and didn't get a single word out of me, so the next time someone tries to browbeat you into talking, just puff your chest up and endure the stab wounds. It's not like they've got you strapped down and are slowly pulling your fingernails out with pliers while electrocueting you, I've been through that and it ain't that bad.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

damnit Twomz,

don't apologize for your individuality or any style choices you made.

Who cut off your balls?

I scare you Shadowlurker? Why? Cuz You're scum and you are scared I will see through your facade and CRUSH you?

Shake In Fear Scumbags, Shake!

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

vote Glork

I think his play so far has been more in the interest of browbeating the kingmaker into kinging him for tommorrow than actually

catching scum

Glork's a damn fine player, I have the upmost respect for him, I've read Kingmaker I as well as all of the postgame commentary and my conclusion after having read all that is that the person with the most insight into how the game works and has the highest chance of catching scum in KMII is PJ.

How do I come to this conclusion? I've played quite a few games with PJ, on the forums and on scumchat, he's HIGHLY analytic, actually keeps histories of people he plays with to spot differences, and most important of all, when he's given a position, he will think of a large number of strategies that could be beneficial or not for that position and the thing about people like PJ, the wheels just never stop turning.

If you look at what he's posted for Kingmaker I and the postgame commentary, you would undoubtedly be impressed with the amount of thinking that he's put into that position, but that's just the tip of the iceberg, those are just the ideas that he felt were good enough to share with us or that he had time to write down and post, I have no doubt that he has a plethora of other strategies he's thought of in the scum position that he either rejected or forgot about or just didn't have the time to post. When scum try that in this game, PJ's the guy who's probably got the best chance of picking up on that. How would I know this? Because from my experience of playing with PJ, that's the type of guy I think he is.

I'm pretty sure Glork's got the same idea of how great a player PJ is, he's no fool and he's not a poor judge of character.

Now consider Glork's reaction to the fact that he was not picked as King, what does he do? He decides to browbeat the shit out of the KMer, basically taking the idea that he's a better choice than PJ trying to stuff it down the throat of "whichever poor noob didn't make him king".

What the heck is the point of this? He KNOWS it's a vanilla only game, there's no doctor that can protect him from the baddies! Perhaps he wants to make it absolutely clear to those bad bad mafia that he's definitely the best choice for the nightkill cuz he's going to completely wipe the floor with them if he ever gets the crown?

The above was sarcasm btw.

Glork's trying to imprint the idea that he must be made King into the head of the Kingmaker and disguising that as trying to get a reaction out of PJ by placing him under emotional duress(this is not a good idea, we want to know how PJ would act normally, not how he'll act when he's bent out of shape)

hurry up glorkscum, toss a few buddies under the bus and mebbe you'll fool us ^.^

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Pj

just pass the buck to me.

i'll get things done

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i didn't "drop" it glork

I got tired of people not listening to me and went to pout in the corner.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What exactly do you want me to respond to?

You have your opinion on what you did and I have mine, arguing it one way or the other won't make any difference, it is a matter of opinion. I found no reason to waste the town's time arguing over whether your actions were in the interests of what I've said or what you've said because ultimately it is a matter of opinion and we can't really prove it one way or the other.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

cuz bandwagoning is so tech in a kingmaker game.

*eye roll*

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

So you think I don't know that you're the type of psycho egomaniac who has such a deluded sense of self empowerment that he would never be swayed by crowd pressure(aka a bandwagon)?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My opinion is that bandwagoning in general in Kingmaker games are quite ineffective.

In your specific case, it probly helps the person who is being bandwagoned to survive.

I'm glad you can cite one example to try to refute my point, and attempt to ignore the context entirely of my comment then accuse me of backtracking.

Cuz context CLEARLY doesn't matter at all(Sarcasm Warning)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

What context? The context of you being King, this being Day 2, you not being TSS.



I actually meant that comment about you being not susceptible to crowd pressure as a compliment, I think I've already made it fairly clear that I am of a similar grain.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Which Kingmaker game did you think I was refering to? When did you think I was refering to?

If you honestly think I was referring to Kingmaker I on Day 1 when TSS was King, then I have no need to continue this line of argument.

I will address PJ after i read his post.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

My Responses are in Italics.

Vote: Pooky

.

I just reread your posts in isolation, and I am catching a few things I'm not liking. Please explain:

1.)

like one thing I don't get, is that if we wanted a confirmed innocent to make the choice everytime, wouldn't we just have the KingMaker claim and direct the king? even if they kill the KMer, it's not like we're going to lose anything since we'd just get a new one.

And if scum counterclaim KMer, all we'd have to do is get the KMer a list of 2 people to appoint as King/Backup and the CounterClaimer a list of 2 other people to appoint and when the next day dawns we'll know which side was lying and be able to execuete accordingly.

It's not like we can run out of Kingmakers!

...and...

Pj

just pass the buck to me.

i'll get things done

Just not liking these when put together. Pooks presents a plan that I don't agree with (outing the Kingmaker as a confirmed innocent to make decisions), then later suggests I should trust him to execute correctly (even though he he had already made a giant defense of how I am "the most qualified to catch scum"). I'm not seeing how these can all be consistent with each other.

The KMer is clearly a confirmed innocent, by having him choose the target, IMO we are having a better shot of hitting scum, we've got no chance of scum influencing a bandwagon(which glork clearly thinks is something we have to contend with but I think is garbage, and yes specifically in this case definitely garbage), and definitely won't be controlled by a scumking avoiding other targets, IMO having a confirmed innocent choose our execeution is better than any random King, tho we do lose the information from what the King would've chosen. As qualified as you are to catch scum darling, you do generally have a weaker early game, you are quite overly methodic and dull, I woulda been waving the sword around in a far more hilarious way to get reactions out of people, did I actually want to execeute some1 on day 1? No, what I wanted was to use threat of execeution more aggressively to provoke reactions. Why would me choosing the execuetion for the day be imo equivalent to KMer choosing? Cuz I know I'm innocent so in my information set I am a confirmed innocent, that's why I would be qualified to make such a decision.

2.) Your attack on Twomz for "saying nothing" seemed disproportionate to whatever offense he may have committed. Also, could you elaborate on this quote in particular:

I wasn't attacking Twomz, I was trying to shame him and the rest of the say nothing useful crowd into saying something useful, when you don't have a giant sword to wave around and threaten people, gentle ribbing and humour might get it done, gotta use the cards your dealt

No need to hide the fact that you're brave enough to stand up to King PJ and his attackdog Glork and not willing to knuckle under to their unreasonable demands.

How much of this was sarcasm? I seriously have a hard time reading sarcasm. Do you really think my demands on D1 were "unreasonable", or that Glork is my "attackdog"? This quote actually reminds me of mathcam-scum in Invitational #5, who called somebody a "lapdog du jour" or something along those lines in order to connect two people together.

Again, more attempts to shame/humor them into saying something

3.) Although I can't say I didn't appreciate your blatant defense of me, you certainly must know it sparked many memories from Goofball Mafia, where you essentially called me town by a "guilty investigation". I am thinking this is because you know I have a semi-Achilles Heel when it comes to town reciprocity (i.e. I often find people who call me town to be more town than I would normally consider them, even though I have tried to beat that inclination down).

You know I love you, it's kind of like my relation with Ibby, Tali, and several others, I'm kinda stupid like that

4.) Today, Pooky has seemed too sarcastic and defeatist for my liking.

I got tired of people not listening to me and went to pout in the corner.

What exactly do you want me to respond to?

cuz bandwagoning is so tech in a kingmaker game.

*eye roll*

Cuz context CLEARLY doesn't matter at all(Sarcasm Warning)

Defeatist attitude? did you even read that post about how if me/fritz were made king we'd win the game in 3 seconds flat?

Pooks, m'dear, I am starting to think you're scum. Who do you think is scum and why?

Also, I think I will note that I do not really find Twomz all that scummy. His play seems rather consistent with what I know to be his play. His bandwagoning does not really concern me that much, especially after having played a seperate large game with Twomz to the end where we were both town (No Use For a Title). I may not have seen Twomz as scum very often, but I think I can read him fairly well, and I am thinking he is town so far.

Bird, I think I've made it quite clear why.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Ok Glork,

Your points against me are just downright ridiculous on so many levels, I will attempt to address why,

1) So you assumed that I was talking not about this game that we are playing but some hypoethetical any other game with any other king.
a)It's a dumb assumption to make(that Pooks is talking about any given game in this current game, we're not exactly having this convo in mafia discussion or the chatroom, we're having, why is there a need to make this assumption?)
b)It's kinda pointless of an assumption to make, this isn't any given game, this is THIS game, the only game that matters is THIS game, whether my statement applied to any other game is debateable but also pointless because it has no relevance to this game.
c) Even if Pooks did mean such a thing, and even IF there was a point to refute him and make the record clear, you've failed to do that, you've cited one day out of 8 in Kingmaker I, not only is the context different, but the game setup is different, the king is different, and even IF those factors were ignored and we could make such a comparison, 1 out of 8 isn't exactly a shining example(i haven't read KMI that carefully so you can correct me if i'm wrong about bandwagon power).

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I didn't criticize his play, I fully support his play. I have a different style, It's not necesarily strictly superior, in my opinion there's a benefit to have more than one method at work at any time.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't get a homework assignment too?

way to make Pooky feel excluded.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i'd totally expect me to find scum

i'm a huge lucksack like that.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

clearly he thinks i'm an inactive sucky player who strikes pure fear into the hearts of scumbags everywhere.

@SV, which points have I not addressed sufficiently?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

this is part 1 of my reread of all player posts throughout the game, I will be going through players in alphabetical order and when I refer to a post number I will be refering to the number of post for that player, ie post 7 is the 7th post that player has made.

As I have to go to class now I will complete this at a later time. My apologies for being absent for quite a while, RL has been somewhat hellish and I still have 4 finals coming up next week.


bird1111
posts 1-4 shaky wobbly opening, sounds as if he is unsure of his stance in the game, why does he vote glork in his opening post if he knows glork can’t kill the king? Never elaborates. 6: says he was joke voting in 4, follows thru in 6, 7:the famous nutkicked posts,
provides analysis on every1 that consists mostly of “needs to post something productive” Positive notes on Nightson/Glork/Yos/Thok mildly positive on MOS/PJ. Negative on Twomz/Mert for lack of substance and inconsistent posting respectively. Votes me in 9 for citing my quickness to lynch him, states MBL is probable townie tho scumdar way off, sounds like he is using standard divide and conquer technique on accusers, go after the shadier bandwagon jumper and try to coddle initial accuser on to his side. Makes mistake on Yosarian in posts next couple of posts.

Post 17 says why he think I should be the lynch out of Glork’s LOE, in 18 he explains his logic,

“Pooky: Hasn't contributed a whole lot, but his contribution isn't that bad either, and has shown pretty much no interest in scumhunting, thinking he's likely scum”

What does this have to do with my alignment? Do you have any idea how I behave as scum or as town? When you say I show no interest in scumhunting, do you mean to say that I happen to just not be posting in general? Would that be more attributable towards a real life problem rather than general scumilicious behaviour? He also reinforces his coddling of MBL.

19: requests replacement.

Summary: I think he’s scum from the nutkicking theory, that and there’s that post where he actually said he was wondering if we thought his scumbuddies would have an easier time getting him to post if the mod and the players couldn’t that got lost in the crash, that was a hilarious one.


cardb0ardb0x
1: states he is a newbie, I think he wants us to take it easy on him, possibly newbie trend. 3:votes pab/MBL, theorizes that <MBL pab/glok were all mafia and connected each other real early. Reacts to SL’s vote.. pretty confident for a newbie…
4: seems to be genuinely townie, stumbles all over himself, I’d be surprised if a scum would do something this silly.
Subseq Posts: trips all over himself, suspects MBL/Glork/Pabl
16: seems to be genuinely trying to find a way to exploit the succession system, impressive for a “newbie” ;P I don’t think he copied it out of the old posts becuz it’s too easy to get called on something like that. Pushes on Bird in 7.

Summary:
Overall looks protown, call me a sentimental sucker but I buy the befuddled n00b act.


CrashTextDummie
1-6 fairly nonseriousvote/unvotes
Starts D2 by pushing on PJ, slowly winds back down when he sees he has smaller support, opportunistic perhaps. Ends up at Mert…
Locks horns with Zind but does not go so far as to counterattack.
Pushes hard on a fairly large number of people settling on Mert
Interesting Tidbit, he completely avoids talking about Bird(I could be mistaken but from my reread of all of CTD’s posts, he’s managed to completely sidestep the bird issue and has not said a single word about it, very suspicious IMO for avoiding something as large as the bird discussion so completely, I’d figure he’d say

something

perhaps scumbag buddy scared too trip up?

Summary:Suspicious imo for avoiding bird, I’d think he’d have said something, also tried to establish something for a PJ wagon but didn’t seem to push as passionately as if he were actually trying to get PJ lynched.


Dead Rikimaru

Didn’t say much, wants Pab dead, provides logic reasoning, look to Pab section for further thoughts.


Der Hammer (rep. Vaughn)
Doesn’t say much, replacement player.
Fritzler
He’s fritz, honestly what can you expect? huggles fritz

Wants CTD dead is the overall vibe I get from him.


*King Glork*
Most Magnificent King Eva(Oh if I could but have an ounce of his wisdom)
This humble servant would be most grateful yada yada yada.

Pleasantries aside, the down-low
Votes: Pab/MBL Pab for buddying MBL for trying to narrow KM id
Makes some posts that are jokey/bantery, we’ve already gone through this b4 on day1 I’m not going to type everything out again

FF=> Day2:
As much as Glork wants to tout the I didn’t respond to him horn, I did respond, you can just click view all my posts to see my responses, the argument was pointless to continue because it was a difference of opinions. I’m also not going to bother going over the argument we had over specific KM game versus general KM game because it’s honestly ridiculous.

Very emotional tone for Glorky, uses swear words liberally, and claims that he is reading every word carefully yada yada yada. I think he’s actually serious about the amount of effort he’s putting into this game, be an awfully tricksy play as scum but as I ponder, I think not. For a vast variety of reason, he is putting a truly impressive amount of work into this game

Note:Glork Section not finished.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Continued from previous Post,

The top reason I believe Glork to be innocent is because I would have expected him to throw a noncontributive scumbuddy under the bus quite a while ago(I honestly don’t expect all of the scumbags we’re dealing with to be type A personality psychopaths who are putting up the air of looking for scum). I’ve seen how Glork reacts to pressure in terms of high expectations in scumchat and his reaction so far is analogous as far as the medium of talk is concerned. I can see that some might say he would put on a 2 month farce and keep it running while making it look like he is trying to find scum but I honestly don’t see anyone who is scum putting on a 2 month farce and putting the sheer amount of effort I’ve witnessed from him into this game.






LuckayLuck (rep. Ameliaslay)

LL’s stated preference for mafia games is to look for townies and then deduce the scum from those who are left over(referencing N285 and M368) He also gets brownie points for having an Izzet Guidmage in his icon, why Glorkos doesn’t get points for his Nezumi…. Well it’s cuz I think his nezumi is an overrated crappy card that I wouldn’t pick in a draft.

Post 0 follows the criterion, marks MoS MBL NS PJ Pab as townies.

Post 1 Marks as against 3 people but only very weakly and also marked 3 people as unsure of, marked all other players as slightly to highly townie.(sounds like he doesn’t want to piss any1 off but pretty solid stuff for a newbie this early. Not much fundamentally wrong with his logic since most of it is based off gut instincts.)

Post 6:
Supports strongly,
MoS
MBL
Nightson
Pablito
petroleumjelly
Glork

There is also that quite helpful chart he made in Post 17.

I expect he’s not scum from the sheer number of players he’s marked off as townie to highly townie, I would expect a scum player to mark off fewer townies in order to keep more viable lynch candidates around. I also don’t believe he’s working to get people to not suspect him by saying he thinks they are townie because he’s simply cast too many of those connections.





Mastermind of Sin
He starts off by saying he’s never going to vote till he’s King, certainly something I’d expect from MoS, it doesn’t really change whether he’s more or less likely to be scum because this guy honestly doesn’t care about what role he is when he does things, if he wants to do it, he’ll do it regardless of which side he’s on.

He honestly doesn’t say very much this game, he doesn’t push very hard for the people he thinks are guilty or defend adamantly the people he thinks are innocent. Basically he won’t be saying much, this is type of behaviour is more in line with general MoS behaviour, he will pursue it regardless of alignment. I’m more willing to put him in my townie column because I’ve just seen so many games where MoS psuedolurks through and will defend his lurkish strategy.

Mert
0:a vote without any reasoning, logic or commentary, no random or anything. Kind of pointless in a KM game considering your vote is only as good as the reasoning behind it since it does nothing by itself.
1:A joke filler
2-10: he really doesn’t say anything concrete in terms of who he suspects, tho he criticizes the methodology of several players, he does not push them, yes he votes for these people but he does not push for their execution very hard/
21:rather ironic he would jump on a bandwagon on me with the logic that I jumped on a bandwagon after a notable absence.

The guy doesn’t really say much of substance, I can say the same thing for plenty of players so far. The easiest way for scum to hide is to stay within the current, when they see most players lurk, they will follow along and do the same.

MrBuddyLee
I like MBL a whole lot in this game, probably because his ideas are so like mine. I could analyze every post over again but I’m short on time and u guys probly won’t read it anyway.

He’s right, Glork, stop putting yourself under so much damn pressure and accept the fact that you need the help of the rest of the bloody town to win this game.

Plus I don’t think the ideal scum strategy is to poke at the King a lot. Could be mega wifom but I highly doubt it.

Nightfall (rep. UberTimmy)
Has 1 post, the guy who he’s replacing didn’t do much better. Solid lurker.

Nightson (rep. Vikingfan)
Does better than predecessor in expressing suspicions. Hasn’t posted enough for me to put him solidly in any camp, on gut I’d say he’s more likely to be town than mafia(after adjusting for whatever ratio the town has in favor of it of course).

pablito

Unlike most players, I like pab, I understand the point of his argumentation and his logic.

He seems to make a real effort in terms of actually playing the game, and there are cute tidbits like Post 67.

I like his posts in 43 61 74 and 84.

But here’s the biggest reason I think Pab=protown, he starts the game by putting enormous pressure on Glork, even more pressure than if some1 had voted Glork. He put confidence into the fact that Glork would catch scum, that’s stronger pressure because it puts the onus of catching scumbags on Glork.(He’s pretty susceptible to unreasonable expectations) A Glork with unreasonable expectations of himself is a dangerous thing I don’t see Pab trying to create that with a move that also draws attention to himself, it’d be like a doubleshot against himself.

petroleumjelly

He’s PJ

I love him

But there’s no way I’m reading all of his posts.(short on time, and plus I’m 19 minutes over the time I had put up for rereading this game already.)

The overwhelming consensus I get from rereading the other posts b4 is that they think PJ is protown, from what I have reread I get that sense too.

I’m over the time I’ve allocated for game rereading and I have 2 finals on Monday and 2 on Thursday so I’m not even sure if I’ll be back to finish this analysis.

Summary So Far:
It’s a rather peculiar stretch of time over the multiple crashes that will kill activity quickly, plus there is the natural lurking that goes on anyway this type of climate in Mountainous favors scum, our best course of action is to revert to a voting/killing formula that will kill lurking to a high extent, I could design something of that fashion but the natural lurking problem probly won't go away on its own. I might or might not be around to finish this later dependent upon how well studying goes for my finals.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I'm curious Glork, did my post strike you as a post designed to save my own hide?

If so, how? Do I defend myself from your nonexistent accusations? Do I push at another person with incredible vigor and lay out a strong case against them?

No, I have accepted the fact that I can not possibly dissuade you from thinking I am scum because your case against me is entirely gut based so far as I can see, I have accepted the fact that I can't convince you to execuete someone else that I think is scum.

I am fine with the fact that you will execuete me today, I was quite angry when you made that post about how you had already made your choice because I was quite sure you had chosen me for execuetion and it pretty much let everyone off the hook in terms of posting. I am fine with that now because I'm fairly certain at this point that you're townie and you will probably feel terrible about being wrong about me. You will probably be angrier at yourself than I have been at you for the past month.

I'm sure when this is all over, we can share a drink and have a laugh about what made you think I was scum.

As for why I've chosen to post the analysis, well I'd think you guys would be better off with the fairly indepth analysis of a confirmed protown player than without it. Good luck, I'll be rooting for ya'all.

I'll finish on Tuesday if I can find the time, I have final in 3 hours.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

When did my membership in the "I love Glork" gang get revoked?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Cough lucksack cough

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Glorkie broke my heart when he killed me

I thought we were buds forever

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

screw you MoS

I demand better picture resolution on that avatar! not knowing the comedic caption beneath that cat is TREASON AGAINST THE STATE AND IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH.