The Reckoning III (Math is Hard) Holy crap, perfect town win

[Iecerint]

VOTE: Axxle

Vote dumbness does not make it town re: Pie's thought. Am aware of the deja vu.

PSA: I am a hammerer. I passively hammer anyone who reaches L-1, unless I am already on the wagon. So be careful about putting people at L-1.

[Iecerint]

Coming from you, I think it's pretty likely.

[Iecerint]

1. Iec don't be that guy that votes Axxle because he's being Axxle.

2. also you're gonna have to fight half of YNGO for hammering rights.

1. But it worked so well in Balto 2013 :[

2. I

passively

hammer. In other words, everyone who I'm not voting for is perma-hated. I am permanently voting for everyone in the game at all times for purposes of determining hammer thresholds.

The only way someone who isn't me can hammer is if I'm on the wagon already at a point before L-1, and then someone else hammers. Or I'm dead.

[Iecerint]

VOTE: UntrodTripod

[Iecerint]

O. I'm glad I claimed then.

[Iecerint]

Iecerint, if someone gets to L-1, will your name appear in the votecount as the hammer?

Role PM does not specify; I will ask our Mods.

(Why are you bothering to ask about something so inconsequential...?)

[Iecerint]

I think Waffles is pretty town apart from asking me about whether my hammer vote will show up. It seems like the kind of detectiveing that scum do because they want to detect things to be town, so they focus on aspects of the game that are still a mystery to them.

[Iecerint]

Iecerint, if someone gets to L-1, will your name appear in the votecount as the hammer?

Role PM does not specify; I will ask our Mods.

(Why are you bothering to ask about something so inconsequential...?)

Because claiming when it's not public means you get town points for claiming. If you claimed when your vote

is

public, the action is completely null. Duh.

(You can still get town points for claiming without checking, I guess, although it's less provable.)

OK, that makes sense. It did not occur to me because publicness is not mentioned in my PM and I am town, so the ramifications of scum having to do with publicness were not obvious to me due to lack of rumination x2.

It is now confirmed that

the voteless hammer vote does show up in the VC

.

[Iecerint]

He only *said* he didn't know, that doesn't mean he didn't know.

Axxle you are just a detective, detecting all the subterfuge.

[Iecerint]

Can we mislynch Axxle D1 again?

I was fakeclaiming and am a lyncher-hammerer on Axxle btw. I become scum if I don't win as a lyncher tho, so better lynch Axxle quick. :[

Pedit: Ohhhhh Triforce's words cut to the bone.

[Iecerint]

D1 MUST HAVE SCUM TEAM NAILED. No, we just have the one scumread so far. One of Fate/Reck could be scum? But again, to be determined.

Reck is ridiculously obvtown, but I am happy that people are saying the opposite at times because it means I feel safe saying it on the mountains.

[Iecerint]

I know, but the reasoning is that I was too dumb to have double-ruminated as scum.

But I guess you are right and it also means I am winning at the game, so I should be OK with that.

And maybe I triple-ruminated!

[Iecerint]

Unvote; Vote: ActionDan

[Iecerint]

yeah so im just gonna keep jumping around voting people that i don't recall having done townish things yet

Vote:Iecerint

Why of all people have you selected me?

[Iecerint]

yeah so im just gonna keep jumping around voting

people that i don't recall having done townish things yet

Vote:Iecerint

Why of all people have you selected me?

reading is tech

1. That does not answer my question in any way.

2. I have done townish things, so it makes even less sense to me.

Like, if someone was going to make a "this person needs some pressure! they're not in the game!" kind of vote, I can think of fewer than 4 weirder targets.

[Iecerint]

Reck claimed BP to D1 lynch only. So it's not really a BP. There's no reason to shoot it (unless you think he is scum)....

[Iecerint]

You should probably read the posts of people whom you vote.

[Iecerint]

Oh what the hell.

Unvote

VOTE: Gamma

If someone who's still deciding could vote dan in my absence that would be great thanks.

[Iecerint]

i mean i could

but there's a lot of people in this game and nobody's going to get lynched until page 30+ so i don't have to for a while

alternatively
=3

I would read this post as townie if 90% of people made it, but you're in the 10%. Burdened by normally trying hard.

Though have I ever played with Gammascum?

I know I played with GammaTown in a large game = Dynasty Warriors, where you were TOWN CHAMPION and my bff. So it can't be an effect of large games unless you have become old and grouchy in the years between.

[Iecerint]

i mean i could

but there's a lot of people in this game and nobody's going to get lynched until page 30+ so i don't have to for a while

alternatively
=3

point of clarification: was this @ voting dan in my absence or @ reading my posts? I had inferred the latter.

[Iecerint]

Iecerint, you leaving the Dan wagon for Gamma makes me confused and exasperated.

I am still with you in spirit so you do not have to be concerned.

I even went so far as to stipulate as such explicitly so that you would not have to experience such negative feelings. :[

[Iecerint]

Whenever I've played games with Gamma on the site, he's been town and very engaged. His contributions in this game are perfunctory. He implies (without stating explicitly) that it's because he's at work/busy, but he's obviously been employed at other times, too, so I don't think that's a good explanation for the discrepancy. I might have expected Gamma to do something like pop in and say "hey I'm at work but will get to this later" or something, but making half-hearted content-y contributions is different from that.

I don't really know much about Gamma's forum scum meta, so it could be nothing, but it feels off to me.

And yes, I've thought about it enough to notice off-ness mainly because he said things about me, leading to attention/rumination.

[Iecerint]

Don't you think "exasperating" is a little hyperbolic? Gosh.

[Iecerint]

Hmm, OK, based on my memory of the Balto invitational (the most significant and possibly only? game I've played with Gamma on the forums), I had thought he was similar to his approach here, but a quick ISO check suggests that you are more right than I thought. I guess it's fine, then. I'm pretty sure I can't read Gamma for shit anyway. I'd still rather we weren't splitting up the only interesting votes on the board, though.

'Exasperated' may be a bit strong. I nearly used 'frustrated', which is probably more strictly accurate, but it's just not as enjoyable a word.

I think I played with TownGamma in Dynasty Warriors and Gay Mafia II -- both of which were large games. I was scum in both of those games. IIRC we killed Gamma N1 in Gay Mafia because he was towntowntown, but he was kept around for a bit in Dynasty Warriors because we were boyfriends (but he was still towntowntown).

His meatworld mafia meta is way different.

[Iecerint]

Tbh I don't really remember Gamma doing stuff D1 in Balto one way or the other. I do remember him being TownGamma D2, though.

[Iecerint]

k

pedit @ gamma

[Iecerint]

What do you want to know about it?

[Iecerint]

I don't really think that Iec's gamma meta is accurate, as in I'd not associate an obvioous lack of engagement with gamma scum (Specifically he was pretty engaged in Defcon, and uh, that one stupid game he won because of Vezok ages ago.) Or at the very least was trying to look engaged? (I guess it may not be real engagement but that's not really the point)

I only have Gamma-Town meta and a sense that this is different, so you may be right. It's possible that something other than alignment accounts for the discrepancy.

[Iecerint]

I think Eleven is relatively obvtown, too, but I hadn't realized that it was mostly Faraday for most of its postings, so that makes them a bit more null because I always read Faraday town.

I would be interested in whatever Gamma picked up on.

[Iecerint]

Also Gamma is givin me the willie nillies not because he's scummy but because he's being useful which is anti gamma meta. like it's not town or scum it's just not gamma

Gamma is useful all the time. I made like 5 posts about this.

I don't see him as overly useful here but.

[Iecerint]

Unvote; Vote: ActionDan

CDB gives me the creeps a little but I agree with the substance of what he is saying.

[Iecerint]

I must bring out the best in Gamma.

[Iecerint]

I must bring out the best in Gamma.

[Iecerint]

mollie is town

[Iecerint]

well actually i normally think town mollie is scum, so maybe she isn't town.

[Iecerint]

Cheery Dog is so hard to vote for when he has that cute dog pictyr.

[Iecerint]

So uh what do those lines mean?

I am assuming that mollie and i are town rite? and dan and his dog are scum?

[Iecerint]

Oh I misparsed that due to the / (i.e., I skipped over town as fuck assuming that it was a confident synonym).

[Iecerint]

It's OK, CDB is gut-scummy to me, too, so I can see into your pure heart due to narcissism.

[Iecerint]

(He's less gut scummy than ACTIONDAN, tho, so he is the enemy of my enemy, even though this game is probz black and red unf.)

[Iecerint]

I find it so weird that you guys are the only ones who don't find my obvtown whenever I play a game.

[Iecerint]

me*

[Iecerint]

We've given you people all you need to know.

[Iecerint]

You people and pie*

[Iecerint]

You people and hydrae and pie*

[Iecerint]

pedit: "you people"

[Iecerint]

Reck that is probably the first scummy post I have seen you make in this game.

[Iecerint]

From a perspective of wanting to lynch people, IMO we should lynch actiondan.

[Iecerint]

Well I guess that's OK, too.

That's an awfully scummy thing to say, though, UT. Even though it's not technically wrong. Least bad WCS, etc.

[Iecerint]

But there might be a vanillaizer or something who can fix me. WHO CAN SAY.

No, not a crumb. But Reck's role interacts with mine in nice ways so.

[Iecerint]

Hmm, maybe.

See when I'm scum I always make arguments that are like "WELL ACCORDING TO MY MATHEMATICAL MODEL LYNCHING THIS PERSON WILL BE ADVANTAGEOUS DUE TO P < 0.05" and people are like but that person is town and i am like WELL MATHS LALALA PEOPLE'S ACTUAL ALIGNMENT IS IRRELEVANT and your approach was kind of like that.

[Iecerint]

I mean I have also done that more than 2 times as town but as a result of doing that more than 5 times as scum when i read people doing that i think HMM SOUNDS LIKE SCUMS TO ME.

That is what I mean.

[Iecerint]

But yeah I am probably an example of someone who would've been a way better policy dayvig than Death Note, just due to my role. Unlike Reck.

HEHEHE.

pedit - cherrydog is kind of scummy but damn that dog picture is cute.

[Iecerint]

That is not what I said and you know it.

[Iecerint]

so sassy UT

[Iecerint]

Probably because the PR part of the claim has pro-town utility.

Would take crazy luck to verify it tho (at least the protection part), so I could understand it being worth the best WCS thing and lynching.

[Iecerint]

Yes I agree with you but that is probably why.

Also ActionDan is a scummy active lurker.

[Iecerint]

Something I noticed based on the rules:

NOTES FOR THIS GAME SPECIFICALLY

1. Your alignment will not change over the course of this game.
2.

Anti-town factions will be given relevant fake roles and flavor.

3. Sample VT role PM

Bold added. I think this makes it very unlikely that Triforce is scum because TriforceScum probably has a town fakeclaim.. It is possible that Triforce is actually a relatively anti-town 3rd party, but it is not likely that they are scum.

[Iecerint]

Counterexample: mentat.

</split personality disorder>

Something I noticed based on the rules:

NOTES FOR THIS GAME SPECIFICALLY

1. Your alignment will not change over the course of this game.
2.

Anti-town factions will be given relevant fake roles and flavor.

3. Sample VT role PM

Bold added. I think this makes it very unlikely that Triforce is scum because TriforceScum probably has a town fakeclaim.. It is possible that Triforce is actually a relatively anti-town 3rd party, but it is not likely that they are scum.

Eh. I think that means stuff like Mafia Trackers having Town Tracker fakeclaim. Triforce could be a Mafia goon with a VT fakeclaim who invented this themselves. I still think it's much more likely they're an AIDS-infector variant, though.

It's trivially possible that they could be a Goon who invited stuff about green shirts and such, but the triviality needs to be italicized.

I think it's zany that a role in Gay Mafia is being used like a standard role in this discussion. But if we're talking about that role, NS won and the game continued.

[Iecerint]

Also, if they just needed to give people shirts to win independently, I don't know why they wouldn't just claim that...?

It's not any more sinister than the current claim. The only difference is that the current claim includes town utility while simultaneously risking exposure on their parts (because if someone dies with a green shirt who wasn't already a green-shirt target, it will undermine their utility claim).

[Iecerint]

Triforce is almost definitely not mafia, so they should not be lynched. They're definitely not town, too, but they probably have a pro-town effects from being around.

Bad lynch. You should utility lynch me before that I think.

[Iecerint]

Meanwhile AcscumDan continues to powerlurk and hope that we'll derplynch the survivor.

I'm also inclined to believe that he thinks we'll get tired of waiting if he powerlurks.

[Iecerint]

Fate, Mafia 100% each have town fakeclaims with appropriate flavor as per the rules I already quoted from page 1, so a spontaneous survivor fakeclaim from mafia is unlikely. SurvivorTriforce is not mafia.

If you want to lynch the Survivor, you need to admit that it's because you want to lynch 3rd party, not because you think there's a chance you're lynching mafia.

In my experience, scum love non-scum utility lynches even more than town do (kinda like how they love other-scum lynches in multiscum games more than town do).

[Iecerint]

Nuwen can you vote someone please? Going on about theory and third party strategy is fine but I'm not actually going to care about it unless you actually try to apply it to a person in this game.

Yeah, Nuwen's summary of what several people have already articulated was pretty scummy.

One clarification: I'm already voting for ActionDan, so I can't role-hammer him unless I unvote and someone else gets him to L-1.

[Iecerint]

Unvote
Vote: ActionDan

Goddamn cowards

Lynching the survivor is...brave?

[Iecerint]

Let's lynch ActionDan today and UT tomorrow please. Nuwen D3.

LINE EM UP.

[Iecerint]

You do not lurk in all your games.

YOU LIE.

[Iecerint]

Srsly AD I think it's pretty likely that you lurked in this game hoping that it would make your wagon go away. Like, on purpose rather than omg guys i am so busy with my games i have a life aka other mafia games and cannot post all the time!

The only real question I have about it is whether you did that as town.

[Iecerint]

And I mean sorry bud but I think you kind of deserve it if you did that as town cuz I mean WHO CAN BLAME ANYONE FOR FINDING THAT SCUMMY you are just setting yourself up for misropes if you behave in that fashion.

So I think that like the wcs is a mislynch that teaches everyone a valuable lesson about active lurking.

[Iecerint]

I think I'd read the same logic like 3-4 times (Waffles IIRC, and I said something similar, others too I think).

Skim+Narrow does explain it away, but leans scummy. Doesn't lean as scummy as Dan active-lurking, though.

[Iecerint]

I'm going to unvote so that I can demonstrate my claimed ability.

Unvote

I will revote ActionDan if it becomes clear that he has a viable alternawagon (not that it'll matter numerically -- I just don't want people to forget about me due to the wagon being smaller by 1). I am voting Dan with all my heart on the inside.

If this leads to a Triforce accidental hammer I will be very annoyed.

[Iecerint]

I'm kind of thinking that your ability might be a scum ability so...

you go ahead and prove it bud

I figure I may as well prove it just because why the hell not.

[Iecerint]

Time for ActionDan to be a town bomb who blows me up.

[Iecerint]

I thought bombs were hammer + kills and supersaints were just hammers.

For some reason the bomb flavor seemed to lend itself a bit more to trollishness.

[Iecerint]

I am probably voting for Nuwen I think. It felt good given AD scum yesterday for some reason, though I can't remember why.

[Iecerint]

IIRC Nuwen and some other people kind of ignored the ActionDan wagon for no reason and kind of pushed other things. I think this is the way to lynch today.

I will review D1 sometime and find these people.

[Iecerint]

IIRC Nuwen and some other people kind of ignored the ActionDan wagon for no reason and kind of pushed other things. I think this is the way to lynch today.

I will review D1 sometime and find these people.

make sure you look at Axxle when you do that

IIRC Nuwen and some other people kind of ignored the ActionDan wagon for no reason and kind of pushed other things. I think this is the way to lynch today.

I will review D1 sometime and find these people.

I think Axxle is a pretty good example of someone with a pretty lame relationship to the Dan wagon.

OK!

I wanted to lynch Axxle yesterday but someone told me not to (I think it was CDB idr).

[Iecerint]

Also I mislynched Axxle D1 in Balto so ye know.

[Iecerint]

IIRC Nuwen and some other people kind of ignored the ActionDan wagon for no reason and kind of pushed other things. I think this is the way to lynch today.

I will review D1 sometime and find these people.

I ignored the fuck out of it because nobody ever actually gave me a good reason for voting him.

like the only person who actually engaged me regarding dan was Faraday who just went PROVE HE'S TOWN

Well you don't count anyway because you have a really good avatar.

[Iecerint]

Also seeing Gamma & Nuwen slapfight makes me sad because idk how to read either of them

but see this makes me just want to lynch you instead because it's literally the laziest thing you could possibly say about it while still acknowledging that it exists

Gamma is obvtown reck stop being scummy i like your avi.

[Iecerint]

i missed 1103 and 1104

the list of people with a lame relationship to the AD wagon is too long for it be alignment relevant

THOSE SCUM LYNCHES.

SO COMPLICATED.

[Iecerint]

The wcs of lynching reck yesterday is very different from the wcs today.

[Iecerint]

I actually found the self-meta kind of compelling, if it's true. I don't see Axxle posting self-conscious Nah posts.

[Iecerint]

I mean I am totally not motivated to verify it, but.

[Iecerint]

I'm sorry, I'll catch up on this game tomorrow. D:

[Iecerint]

I just slept for 16 hours, so I did not catch up.

[Iecerint]

Time for ActionDan to be a town bomb who blows me up.

oh, yeah it was this, it felt a weird comment given how he was p confident on dan + imo dan's self vote looked fake (although i thought he was flipping town after the vt claim but etc). idk if it's a joke or whatever it just struck me as awkward at the time, I guess.

Half-joke. I didn't expect for Dan to give up like, so I was assuming he had a reason for his behavior. Turns out he just gave up.

[Iecerint]

also Dan's whole reaction to us about wanting to sheep us was a cute little pun on our username and I don't really think he would've done that if we were scum with him since there would've assumedly been QT chat pregame and that kind of interaction seems really weird and stupid to spend time thinking about or planning

Sounds reasonable.

[Iecerint]

5) At the end of the day, I will post a list of all the players in the game next to letters of the alphabet. We will say something like, "The first letter of the first X-letter word of our flavour name corresponds to our target." If we die that night, the player next to that letter is the person we targeted. So if there are two deaths and one of them is us that night. (I checked with the mods and hides can't be roleblocked, but there's an element to the "modified" that wouldn't make it completely impossible our target was town if we were the only death that night. It's not the likeliest event, but I don't want to unwittingly frame someone postmortem.) This way, the scum can't try to take us out by killing our target.

Brilliantly town.

[Iecerint]

blahblahblah

VOTE: Nuwen

blahblahblah

cheery are you scum? plz don't be scum

VOTE: cheery

This looks really strange. As someone who didn't actually read CD's post, my main reaction to it was YAY NUWEN VOTES. It seems super strange to have a non-qualified "let's vote CD" immediately after it.

[Iecerint]

ACTIONDAN BUSSED ACDIONDAN, come on guys. His team bussed him as well. Not just 1 person - TEAM. That lynch occurred very rapidly and easily, and town players like myself and pirate Mollie weren't even voting for it.

rofl

[Iecerint]

I don't think anyone on his team threw him a lifeline, which is why he gave up.

How do you figure? He was avoiding the thread from the time he got 3 votes, and wasn't even a top wagon so it's not like he suddenly gave up because gigantic wagon or anything?

Yeah, obviously the wagon settled on him because he was lurkstanking up the thread... but I think the speed at which Dan collected terminal votes means his team went FUCK IT BUS HIM. He had 3-4 votes parked on him most of the day {CDB, Waffles, Eleven, Icerint}. We can observe EXACTLY when the lynchpin slipped, because from Fate's vote onwards the wagon progressed to VERY DEAD VERY FAST and ActionDan even voted for himself to assist. Here's the wagon minus the people who vote parked AD:

Fate, Porochaz, Untrod Tripod, Ythan, ActionDan, Gammagooey,

Prozac is dead. Ythan is roletown until notice.

The bus is down to Fate, Gamma, UT.

I don't think ActionDan would have self-voted IF HIS BUDDIES WERE OFF THE WAGON AND NON PARTICIPATORY, OR NOT POISED TO BUS HIM. Think about it - what motivates a scum player to vote for himself once he's already going down? He ends the day quicker and gives us less time to pause over each individual vote. Is that the play if his team is off-voting random vanity wagons? Wouldn't he want to give them more opportunity to get on the wagon, or say ANYTHING? This tells us that ActionDan knew his team was

already well-positioned to end the day

, so he was comfortable coming into the thread to speak nonsense and self-vote.

This makes sense tho.

[Iecerint]

I don't have the energy for this nope game's been broken:

FUCKING TOWN

xRECKONERx + Grimmjow (Your New Gay Overlords)
Faraday + KittyMo (Eleven)
Iecerint
Untrod Tripod
InflatablePie
Nuwen
Ythan
Axxle
pirate mollie
ChannelDelibird
Fate

HERPADERP

Gamma

Waffles

Eaglekit

HEY I CAUGHT DA SCUM GUIZ

Your New Gay Overlords
Cheery Dog


I'll be back for my scummy later thx

Color added. Fate clearly shows he has not read the thread.

VOTE: Fate

[Iecerint]

waffles isn't confirmed town

UT scum.

[Iecerint]

I killed Triforce.

dafuq

[Iecerint]

Mollie - I don't give a flying flip what you think of me. I don't ever want to have to get stuck in a game with you again, in skype or talk to you or anything. I used to think you were a really awesome person, and then I just realized you're just plain nasty, and I don't want anything to do with you.

I was scum reading you at the beginning of this game, and asked you a question to try to figure you out. You went ballistic on me and went off about me baiting you and being deliberately mean by hitting a sore spot I don't even know exists. Then you called me a bitch (after mind you I explained my whole thought process to you and told you that I wanted you to be town.) You then twice said I don't belong here, and even after I thought we cleared stuff up, you continued to go "oh Tammy was deliberately mean...she's baiting me, blah blah blah."

I tried Mollie. I fucking tried.

I now want nothing to do with you.

So, lynch me. Fucking lynch me I don't care. If it removes me from this game and your fucking bullshit, good.

Sir Waffles would not post this as scum. 0% chance.

Unvote Sir Waffles.

[Iecerint]

holy fuck I want to lynch waffles now too to shut them up

man what if they're cross bussing. wouldn't that be hilarious.

anyway, isn't it awesome how axxle slipped out the back door as soon as people stopped talking about him? awesomely SCUMMY

UT is scum.

[Iecerint]

Lynch Fate/UT when were dead. Thx

town

[Iecerint]

wow CDB's vote on me is even worse than the others.

I agree with this. I had CDB as town, too.

[Iecerint]

reck you are doing the scum caught for the wrong reasons scum dance fyi

but I will help you bus ut

VOTE: ut

calls someone scum.

votes someone else.

seems good!

calls everyone scum.

votes everyone.

seems good!

[Iecerint]

This Pie wagon is pretty dumb.

[Iecerint]

tl;dr

Unvote
Vote: Untrod Tripod

Now I am caught up.

[Iecerint]

CDB & mollie please vote UT with me thanks.

Axxle and Ythan can come too. And Waffles.

And maybe Eleven.

[Iecerint]

Fate, you did not have Waffles as obvtown in your "I am not going to direct the town" post, which came PRIOR to Ythan's counterclaim.

If it were literally anyone else, I would votepark you for the remainder of the day.

Because I think you are vain enough to try to lead the town without reading the thread.

[Iecerint]

Is Eleven mostly kittymo? I'm pretty sure it's mostly Faraday.

[Iecerint]

It's not "not reading the thread" that's scummy.

It's "not reading the thread and making a reads list and then trying to lead the game despite that" that's scummy.

If you are town and you have not read the thread, you're not going to come and and be all bossy and try to get people to do things.

[Iecerint]

If you are town and you have not read the thread, you're not going to come and and be all bossy and try to get people to do things.

No but Fate is.

Yeah, that's what I said in 1787. The fact that he is Fate lets me vote UT.

[Iecerint]

you'd be surprised then Iece


not reading the thread

enhances

my reads

Also he's just so adorable.

[Iecerint]

All the scum in this game have a post restriction where they must implode after receiving votes from me.

[Iecerint]

Oh eat a dick ythan. You're probably a scum dayvig.

Nah, this is what prompted that.

@Ythan, he's quibbling about the definition of "confirmed." Yes, Waffles was in theory not 100% "confirmed" in the same way that sane cops confirm people when there is a flipped godfather. But it's totally academic and irrelevant. Waffles is obviously town for coming up with a crazy hider crumbing strategy like that. Trying to undermine it is unnatural at best and scummy at worst.

It's kind of fitting that his response is to argue that he meant it so pedantically.

Also, that is neither the only post he has made today, nor is it the only post of his that I quoted and called scummy during my readthrough.

[Iecerint]

UT makes up bullshit to throw at Waffles, then when Waffles refutes it, he just goes "oh whatever I'm not actually thinking you're scum anyway" and backs down. SOUND FAMILIAR?

No?

It's scummy, though.

"My complaints with the word 'confirmed' are purely academic -> omg the claim is shite -> well i'm not voting u tho"

[Iecerint]

Yeah, but you haven't flipped yet.

But OK.

[Iecerint]

Batshitness is correlated with townieness for mollie I think. You have to invert your read.

But I don't see scum mollie much.

[Iecerint]

There's a whole slew of people with less posts than the fucking moderator and that's kinda bothersome.

Nuwen has the same number of posts

as a dead player

. Uh.
Eagle/Pie/Axxle/Cheery are also light on content as well.

I dislike lurking as I feel it's a safe way for scum to hide. Axxle kind of disappeared when the wagon on him happened and whattyaknow it died down.

Nuwen has few posts and some scumminess I think, but her actual posts are pretty content-y.

Axxle I stopped liking because of Nah.

[Iecerint]

Funny thing is I think the two players I have almost no opinion on at this point are Cheery & EagleKit

Yep.

[Iecerint]

<3 for finally thinking about cheery and eaglekit and I am being sincere cos they have lurked around the edges cheery especially looks really bad and those 2 have been bugging me. I am probably going to vote ut I just want to a little time to sort the murkier reads which is why I dunno am trying to engage them????

Given this, I'm a little surprised that you voted cheerydog right after his post about Nuwen. Can you clarify why you voted him in that post?

[Iecerint]

Gotcha.

[Iecerint]

I don't consider it worth paying that much attention to him yet, while I consider it's still a possibility, the scum who are most definity scum are much better to focus on.

Good thinking! So, who are they?

[Iecerint]

Mollie has already explained that the reason for her inference was the "All threats to the town language," implying multiple threats (since found out to be standard AP modding language regardless of scumteam set-up). This is also in the sample town PM.

However, when you voted for Mollie, you used the above logic as the basis for it. So, do you think it's unlikely that Mollie could infer that, or do you think she is scum for other reasons, too?

[Iecerint]

I'm asking you about Mollie.

[Iecerint]

Cuz it looks like you are just repeating people you have called scummy while simultaneously not really caring about what they have posted.

[Iecerint]

Reck claiming D1 Beloved Princess into my Hammerer claim made some sense.

[Iecerint]

I had not actually noticed the obvious ramifications of worrying about a vig shot as a hider. lol.

[Iecerint]

I had not actually noticed the obvious ramifications of worrying about a vig shot as a hider. lol.

okay well help me out here, they are claiming a modified hider but they will not actually flip as a modified hider, but they decided to use a vig shot night n1 not the hider role, they were questioned, they later claimed _____ of all trades and I am not sure how they could have gotten a modified hider role out of that and you wonder why there is speculation around their role claim? the only reason people think they are town is cos of the level of vitriol aimed at me and wow after I was warned by the mod I haven't given them any and yet they have continued on. also the hider action might not work according to them.

IIRC, they actually always claimed X of all trades. One of their abilities was a vig that they claimed to have used on Triforce. They have claimed that another of their abilities is a modified hider that they intend to use N2. They have not claimed their flavor yet because they will use the letters in their flavor name to breadcrumb their hide target (super clever, shows townhydra thinking IMO). They decided to claim "at all" specifically because they will flip like a X of all trades rather than like a hider, so their death, even with a crumb, would not imply a "successful" hide.

If they're town, my guess is that the shot is actually something like a weak cop (cop who dies if he investigates scum), and they framed it as a hider to avoid the NK, then goofed by asking not to be vigged. It's easy for me to imagine one hydra partner making up this plan and the other hydra partner kind of being a dummy.

Though it begs the question of why they wouldn't just delay using that ability, anyway. <--- This is the main sketch part IMO, since they presumably have some other course of action that wouldn't have required them to claim prematurely as above.

[Iecerint]

They're a jack of all trades, so their flip would give no indication of what they used N2. We would assume a standard kill.

[Iecerint]

@Mollie

Faraday, you're being a pretty huge dick, because I think my question was reasonable and you blew it off (also, maybe I'm wrong, but I didn't get the impression at ALL that you seriously suspected Reck; also, you thinking CDB isn't obvtown is a scumtell; also, I think you expecting ActionDan to flip town looks fake because ActionDan was FUCKING REALLY REALLY REALLY OBVIOUSLY flipping scum after he'd self-voted), but anyway:

1) We are a JOAT variant. (Seems like Dan would've been screwed if he'd ever claimed, but anyway.) Explaining more would give away our flavour, and see 5).

2) We shot Triforce last night. (Sorry for auto-losing you the game, guys! We mostly believed your claim, but you were a huge distraction and we were too big pussies--pun intended--to go for a flashier kill with the short D1. Besides, you were dangerous with Iecerint's role.)

3) We are claiming partly because it's useful information about the set-up (both because it tells people there's only one scum faction and because it helps evaluate Ythan's role--FWIW, I think both are compatible, particularly given a certain aspect of ours I won't claim yet), but mostly because:

4) Our second ability is a one-shot modified hide. If there are two deaths tonight and one of them is us, you can basically be sure that we targeted scum. (Due to the "modified" factor, it's not COMPLETELY impossible if we're the only death, but I checked with the mods and hides can't be roleblocked.) Unfortunately, we won't flip as a hider, which is why claiming rather than leaving an obvious breadcrumb like, "IF I DIE, TAMMY IS SCUM!" is necessary.

5) At the end of the day, I will post a list of all the players in the game next to letters of the alphabet. We will say something like, "The first letter of the first X-letter word of our flavour name corresponds to our target." If we die that night, the player next to that letter is the person we targeted. So if there are two deaths and one of them is us that night. (I checked with the mods and hides can't be roleblocked, but there's an element to the "modified" that wouldn't make it completely impossible our target was town if we were the only death that night. It's not the likeliest event, but I don't want to unwittingly frame someone postmortem.) This way, the scum can't try to take us out by killing our target.

6) I feel like we should probably be close-lipped today about our suspects to make whoever we target more unpredictable, but it might be hard for us to keep this promise.

I'd say, "Any questions?" but I probably won't answer them. Have a nice day!

This is their claim post. They claimed both at the same time.

Ythan claimed to have killed Triforce subsequent to this.

[Iecerint]

I presume you will be able to fullclaim the modified component tomorrow given that you survive?

[Iecerint]

Lynch UT please thanks.

[Iecerint]

Wait, you think UT is town?

[Iecerint]

In the future, please do not call people scummy and then actually mean to imply that you read them as town.

[Iecerint]

Fate made a townie post.

[Iecerint]

UT, if it makes you feel better, I meant awful in a scummy way, not a bad-at-Mafia way. <3

UT, it's more stuff like how you danced around our claim (which other people have touched on), and also took the hardcore "lynch-a-survivor" stance during AD's wagon. So it's not really an insult to your town play! (Uh, it's a bit of an insult to your scum play, though. .____. Sorry!)

This.

[Iecerint]

Townread on pie is not strong; it's more that the pie wagon happened after a relatively town post.

I don't at all understand how reading someone town could be an insult to them regardless of their alignment (that means you think they're doing well regardless of their alignment), but lynching Waffles before tomorrow at the very earliest is dumb, anyway.

Cheery I thought was actually kinda town after he started responding to mollie? Only in exactly one of the posts, though.

Eagle is someone I have no town impressions from whatsoever.

[Iecerint]

so then why didn't you bring it up on d1 when I was speculating about it instead of when it was brought up by other people? it isn't just the wc it is the general tone of the game too. and it isn't like you are questioning me about it it just seems like you tried to unobtrusively park a vote in there hoping to blend in in all of the cacophony.

would you like links to where I brought up multi-ball speculation on d1 and wow omg there was multi-ball? this feels a bit different and I was trying to work it out that mebbe it was indie heavy or something.

anyways in those games do you wanna know who went all "omg she said multi-ball!" they were scum cos scum focus on minor things like that instead of having to do the legwork in order to determine some1's alignment.

Day 1 had multiball as more of a possibility. At that stage you'd only mentioned it because of your role pm, as far as I remember reading it, today you went and mentioned your win condition as the cause. We had also had night flips now and vig claims (also a non-entity for scumkills besides the doctor part of the claim), and I wanted to know more. I think I was also partly ignoring you yesterday.
Also I haven't read any of those games I linked besides checking you were in there somewhere and the town's win conditions. (I was going to have a look at your posts, but considering most of them were micros, a category which has had a total of 4 multiball games run in it, (unless there have been some I'm unaware of), only one of these wasn't publicly multiball (also not run by me), I decided it was pointless searching when it's clearly that obvious)

I also would like to clarify something, so you think that nuwen and I are in lockstep as a scumteam and that somehow no1 would notice cos this would be optimal play as scum cos of...how?

I don't know why your scumteam operates in the way you're operating, it may not even be how you want to do it, but it's what is happening. In my opinion the optimal strategy for scum should be to just claim so they don't have to stress themselves out about trying to avoid the lynch. (see Triforce's claim, even though a survivor isn't scum, but can win with them).

Here I'll quote where my scumread of mollie started today. Happy? (so much effort to go through the iso of someone that's posting under the radar or whatever people are calling it with me having less posts than other people)

Having someone as town doesn't mean that they should just be ignored when scumming up the place.

why are you asking me this

I'm trying to figure out how I'm meant to be reading you, sudden changes in reads doesn't help you get a good read.

So it's that you're still trying to find a buddy for waffles, which points back to why I read you as scum yesterday.

So I'm now fine with a mollie lynch again.

I think these were the CD posts that made me think he was town maybe.

It's not a townread really; just that these made me want to lynch him less than UT.

I have no reason to think that UT is town, so I still think he is scum.

[Iecerint]

It's actually pretty logical that people who aren't very town are more likely to be scum IMO.

[Iecerint]

I think you are supposed to claim when you are at L-1.

VOTE: Cheerydog

So that people don't get confused by "L-2".

Cheerydog is an OK lynch.

[Iecerint]

Nuwen is a weathercaster.

pedit: I'd unvote but it wouldn't matter.

[Iecerint]

We should also get a flavor+ability claim from cheerydog.

[Iecerint]

Also dislike Nuwen votes as when she pops up she tends to be a voice of reason, so

I feel like it might kind of IIOA, though. She says accurate things about the gamestate without really using that information to push anything or recommend any particular course of action. She doesn't seem to care whether people take her seriously.

[Iecerint]

I am a little bit open to mollie lynch just because I am curious as to what her alignment is.

[Iecerint]

I don't at all understand how reading someone town could be an insult to them regardless of their alignment (that means you think they're doing well regardless of their alignment), but lynching Waffles before tomorrow at the very earliest is dumb, anyway.

Tammy already explained this--it's an insult to someone's scum play if I think he looks scummy but am calling him town because my meta experience with his scum play has been far scummier than this. But do you think this is even alignment-relevant in the slightest? I assume you're implying there's some scum motivation, if "BUT WE CAN'T LYNCH THEM UNTIL D3" is brought up as a point against it. Also, remind me to ask you something else tomorrow.

It's a scumslip rather than scum sneakiness if you are scum.

I understand your explanation.

[Iecerint]

Vote: UT

I might already be voting him but I don't really know I guess.

I feel the same way as Gamma did in the post where he said "plz let's kill anyone who has ever been wagoned in any appreciable way today."

[Iecerint]

Yeah, I haven't really read since page 88. Did anything substantive happen, or are we still arguing about the same wagons as as have been doing since page 70?

[Iecerint]

Oh, so it was about the day ending.

Well, eaglekit dying is fine.

[Iecerint]

Oh he has a guilty on mollie.

Well, that works I guess.

[Iecerint]

Probably should've just lynched mollie tho.

[Iecerint]

Hey, Iecerint, now can you explain what the fuck you were doing by saying publicly IN THE THREAD that you thought we were a weak cop lying about our role? You guessed right, but there was zero motivation to out that. We could have been fucked over if Eagle hadn't been lynched.

I thought you were town, but I also thought there was a legitimate reason to suspect a claimed modified hider who was worried about a vig during their hide. I thought that that legitimate suspicion might be enough to prevent you from being the target of a scum-kill on its own, but it might also put you at risk of having to claim all the way. I thought that clarifying this piece of the puzzle could potentially lessen suspicion on you enough to prevent you from having to claim any more unnecessary. Also, it would be less problematic coming from me than coming from you. Hence, you would maybe stop being suspected while simultaneously not dying at night.

The extra nuance that your hider claim was intended to dissuade roleblocks in particular did not occur to me. That might have changed what I would have done if it had occurred to me.

[Iecerint]

And yeah, eaglewagon was kind of out of nowhere. I think it went from non-existent to already-lynched during a period when I didn't post for a day or two.

[Iecerint]

unnecessarily*

[Iecerint]

Is that a scumclaim?

[Iecerint]

I think Magua is pretty town tbf.

Pedit ninjas

[Iecerint]

I'll be V/LA Wednesday through Friday.

[Iecerint]

Nuwen didn't die. Nuwen is Antihero.

[Iecerint]

ActionDan (10) ChannelDelibird=Magua,

Eleven, Sir Waffles Wafflington

, Fate=Jordan,

Porochaz, Untrod Tripod

, Ythan,

ActionDan,

Gammagooey, Iecerint

Waffles and UT not official.

[Iecerint]

eaglekit (8)

Eleven

, Nuwen=Antihero, pirate mollie, Gammagooey,

Untrod Tripod

,

InflatablePie

, Ythan, Iecerint

InflatablePie (7) Your New Gay Overlords, Nuwen=Antihero, Axxle, Gammagooey,

Untrod Tripod

,

InflatablePie

, Iecerint

[Iecerint]

I'm so workmanlike.

[Iecerint]

I can see eaglekit hoping to bus mollie and coast after.

[Iecerint]

I think whoever is aware of the kill-stopping mechanism is probably in the best position to understand why it happened and whether claiming it would do much good.

[Iecerint]

The nightgame may clarify the relevance of Gamma's ability to any remaining scum on its own.

[Iecerint]

Posting in soon.

[Iecerint]

Mollie do you have a really unfortunate post restriction?

Did you have to write all of your posts well in advance and submit them in random order?

lolirl

[Iecerint]

the thing that bugs me about iceyrent is that we just finished a game where I was scum. like really

?

[Iecerint]

My input this game is pretty minimal because my role prevents me from having any impact on the game. It's hard to feel very motivated to get involved when (a) whoever gets lynched is getting lynched either way, and b) I feel like the game is basically won at this point and will probably continue to snowball as nights continue provided we don't massclaim and lynch non-obvtowns due to the implicit and claimed PR load. I doubt scum can't mess with enough of it to prevent it.

I am a little surprised that people can't figure out why I would be grossly demotivated given my role and instead think I'm actually scum, but it's not awful to lynch me at this point, really, since the number of scum PRs is probably relatively low by this point, anyway, which increases the value of night to town presuming many PRs. Bonus points if people are actually concerned about me (and enough of you have voiced suspicion that that suspicion per se is not going to be a town/scum thing, so it's just going to be a distraction).

[Iecerint]

the thing that bugs me about iceyrent is that we just finished a game where I was scum. like really

?

really

How is that relevant to anything?

[Iecerint]

What does that even mean?

[Iecerint]

AP is visiting his family in LA this weekend, so that may be what's up. I'll harass him.

[Iecerint]

Yeah well I can't speak for N.

AP said he would do it when he finished family food times.

[Iecerint]

w

[Iecerint]

ActionDan had the best role. Too bad he died D1.