Reck's Retrospective Rehash - OVER (thx obama)

[Kise]

Massclaim when some scum go down. More advantageous that way (pressure), but not necessary. Is it too late to do WotC?

Vote: ZZZX

[Kise]

I'm sorry, I don't know who's mollie, but probably she's on the same side as me. There's certain things in people I could see, give me a night to see if she'll do right by me, it's highly likely that she might be willing to fight with me and that's alright with me.

So many Pokemons, is ZZZX getting a wagon solely for prolonging the start of the game? Does that mean I'm next in line for punishment? Tough

This must be a joke. It's in the first post that Z flakes on his host. I could go and quote, but I'm not provoked to show what SK wrote...so I won't! TL;DR he's a policy vote.

I guess we should put this to rest: It seems Desp has typed text that came out incorrect. What he said next was meant to express that he had to regress. I must say I'm impressed at how quick he confessed..but I digress, got that off my chest. Time to get back to Reck's big retrospect!

[Kise]

50 Shades of Purple is on my radar for 81.

Which part / What in particular?

it will break my heart if you are scum. again.

Yeah but I got replaced so it wasn't that bad was it?

@ooba, I remember a bit from WoW. The red weren't scum, they were town. I guess everyone who wasn't red was supposed to be confused, because the real bad guys were the SK (Deathwing) and cult (Arthas).

[Kise]

@CDB, expand+explain? I thought we were zipping through with a PL.

Ward wagon anyone?

[Kise]

I'm sorry, I don't know who's mollie, but probably she's on the same side as me. There's certain things in people I could see, give me a night to see if she'll do right by me, it's highly likely that she might be willing to fight with me and that's alright with me.

So many Pokemons, is ZZZX getting a wagon solely for prolonging the start of the game? Does that mean I'm next in line for punishment? Tough

This must be a joke. It's in the first post that Z flakes on his host. I could go and quote, but I'm not provoked to show what SK wrote...so I won't! TL;DR he's a policy vote.

I guess we should put this to rest: It seems Desp has typed text that came out incorrect. What he said next was meant to express that he had to regress. I must say I'm impressed at how quick he confessed..but I digress, got that off my chest. Time to get back to Reck's big retrospect!

Its an RVS vote. I dont flake. :<

But you replaced out of your last game, on top of the one from SK
.-.

Can we get GIF in here?

@ooba, I don't see anything wrong with reck cherry picking SK or cult to be used, if not converting a role into mafia for this game. Not accusing or anything because I don't know where reck said WoW was a special case, but the way you wrote it is fishy.

Desp looks innocent to me, no clue why there's still a wagon on him. He made amends right?

[Kise]

@Kise

-

Ooba

didn't address the WoW/scum stuff at all in a scummy way. It was pretty obviously stated in the gamerules. Or the setup thread. Somewhere, though. Also,

Desp

hasn't escaped my suspicion yet. What are your thoughts on the gameclaim idea?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 0#p6324900

That's as much as I want to say on the matter. I can expand further post-game or in the dead QT, but answering now just makes scum smarter.

Kise

- The rhyming stuff was weird. Didn't much like the actual game related posts either. Mostly emtpy threats at Ooba.

I'm not threatening him tho, kupo. There was a misunderstanding (on my part) about how Reck was handling the roles from WoW mafia. I'm still not sure of what reck is doing but honestly that's the point.

I would wagon Kise or Shinobi if nothing else gained traction. And probs vote ZZZX in a pinch because that's always fun. As far as wagons go, the current zzzx though has Chevre and Kise on it, which isn't great.

Unvote

There ya go.

You and farside, help me understand this D1 srs bsns stuff. If I had a dollar for every mafia game I've played, I'd be a millionaire. Maybe more like every $1,000 but the point is I've gone through the day 1 phase/RVS/whatever else it can be called lots and lots of times. Very rarely do scumslips happen. Outside of that, it's all guesswork, fluff and frequent fighting - most of that in attempts to break the ice. Once again in this game, I see a lot of something trying to be made out of nothing. GIF or smash will have to come in and play catch up now because ZZZX is mia as expected. This policy lynch should have happened already, then we would've gone crazy with night actions and really started having fun. Let's not pretend that when the mod advertised this as an "unbalanced journey" that it'd be mostly talk-to-win.

Desp says too much, I say too little, ZZZX says nothing. Everyone can look scummy for something to someone, but it proves nothing. I just went over that final day from reck's last game and didn't Shinobi & company blast you guys in the ass? Sometimes scum are obvious, and other times, like I'm guessing was the case in Suburban Warfare, they play so good (or at least better than most of the real town) that over half of the team makes it to endgame. Idk how many games you've had, 4burner, but farside should have enough exp to know that this game isn't easy if you're only hunting based on what people say. Start considering that there are wolves in sheep's clothing; the person barely anyone/no one suspects. Only looking at the surface for scum is not guaranteeing you any accuracy.

And I'll drop another jewel on you. Ever think that maybe Desp is bluffing and isn't VT? Of course you do, because you think he's scum, BUT, what I'm asking is: What if Desp is a town PR who saw a fairly innocent opportunity to fakeclaim VT and keep scum from shooting him? "WTF Kise that's so anti-town. Why would you even want to expose Desp like that?" Yeah maybe, or maybe he's VT and I'm making scum think he's worth killing still. All we are saying is a bunch of words. The only truth is a flip.

See that? I have plenty of depth. I could also make myself look like a textbook helpful pro-town player by commenting on every case of every wagon, agreeing/disagreeing with it but that's not how I feel like playing. Also, I know better than to pass off speculation as fact. Day 1 tends to be a crapshoot, and this is no different IMO. Even though I said it jokingly, I really don't support voting mollie, and I've also said my piece on Desp. Idk you 4b, but you have my word that I'll comment on cases when I feel it's worth doing. Atm, I'm not going to support or detract or question all of these wagons. It's actually healthy and informative when they can play out a bit longer.

Real talk.

[Kise]

I just realized who Triforce is. I can dig a wgeurt wagon. Ward and ZZZX are also good, with Ward being the one to make me think they're connected.

Why a PL on zzx? Do you think night will really provide info? I ask because recks last game, night actions didn't help as much there.

PL cus I'll ride for SK.
Actions make the game more fun at the very least, since we have private & shared knowledge to influence our play. Will it help? Varies, but it's possible.

UT appears to be town. He was time the last town he went derp on me.

are you referring to cave story mafia?

because

you were scum that game

Ward, wgeurt & ZZZX are good votes atm. Bro, CDB, farside & Shinobi are my "cop this motherfucker just in case" suspects. I guess you can call them suspects.

Oh I think I am seeing what Triforce is meaning.
I don't like how they tried to use his wiki work against him though. That seems unrelated to me, unless he has worked on a page about lynch mechanics.

I also found that kinda unnatural.

Like, I don't see scum piping in to feign ignorance of the majority vs. 2/3 threshold being normative.

Piping in to express REAL ignorance because it feels awkward to post in the thread regarding on-topic stuff, maybe -- but not to feign ignorance.

Close to how I see it, minus the feigning part.

But that gets me back to what I was telling 4b & farside, that there's a big chance people will be more involved after this phase.

[Kise]

VOTE: ZZZX
This fucker replaced into my game, went V/LA, came back, prod dodged, and flaked out. He dies.

Did this really happen?

[Kise]

VOTE: ZZZX
This fucker replaced into my game, went V/LA, came back, prod dodged, and flaked out. He dies.

Did this really happen?

Yes. I don't understand why you'd ride for me though. I don't really remember ever interacting with you (except I think you asked if you could use my avatar on a wrestling forum?).

We used to play marathons when they first started coming back, I think in 2012. I modded a few you were in as well but I guess I'm not cool enough to remember.

[Kise]

2011*

[Kise]

Nah cus that was recent. You don't remember us hooking up? Or was I just a piece of meat?

[Kise]

Reck did you forget to replace Desp?

pedit lol

[Kise]

[Kise]

Hello everyone, sorry I haven't posted much. My keyboard got eaten by a rodent. I'll buy a keyboard tomorrow and catch up. Thank you.

Professor Oak says it's time to play.

[Kise]

@Bella - Still waiting on a catch up.

Only been a few hours, and this is 19 pages? Also how come you didn't jump on ZZZX after Chevre and myself were no longer voting him?

So you don't think I'm town, then? Shenobi has changed his view of me over to

silly

now, so where does that leave you?

I think it's more that you misunderstood Shinobi's take on you rather than that he changed his perspective.

I would say I am probably more ambivalent than Shinobi whereas he is learning town. I am actually comfortable with being ambivalent because I only have to lynch one person and I'm ambivalent enough to not really think it should be you.

In other words, the main relevance of those parts was that they gave me a town read on Shinobi rather than that I had a particular read on you.

Idk abut that answer.

FOS Iec

[Kise]

@MOD sorry, but I have to replace out also I;m just kidding.

I'm willing to bet both my nuts that Iec is town.

Why the FOS kise?

Should I kill you as SK N1 again?

Well, I misinterpreted his post and had to click the quote/post 446 to remind myself of what Iec fully said in the beginning. I thought Iec was copping out to the accusation that he contradicted himself, but a reread of old stuff makes it clearer that Iec isn't backtracking. I apologize, have mercy on me.

So Juls are you SK or cult? Fans are dying to know.

And would it be correct to say that if wgert is mafia, he would be able to kill in (expired on 2014-10-29 16:14:09)?

[Kise]

@ every1

I think there is meat to cdb's scumread on nexus.

And idk. Last time I played with CDB onsite, there was a lot of swearing. I'm waiting for that.

[Kise]

Well I don't

Vote: wgeurts

So..

[Kise]

My lynch+cop feelings in this post have changed a bit: Add Majiffy & Chevre to the cop list & maybe take ZZZX off the lynch list if he's participating. Put PV in-between those lists if he simply dodges/responds to a prod again. This doesn't look like strategic lurking from town, so I can't pardon him.

I'm just gonna say, I'm pretty sure I was the last to (LOG IN AND) confirm my role. There may have been at least one other name not highlighted but I scrolled down that one time and only remember seeing I wasn't bolded. So, this is an odd thing to make note of. I would not be surprised if this was him defending his buddy. It should have been obvious what ZZZX was being voted for on page 1.

For whatever reason, wgeurts didn't get around to addressing Triforce's link (kekeke) that came before his last series of post. Not moving my vote.

On that note, the only thing I personally suspect Nexus for is snapping at Juls over the misspelling. I mean, it kinda gets to me when people call me

kee-say

, but sheesh, was it worth cursing her out?

Some of you may know I don't make town lists early in the game. For those of you who don't know, I don't make town list early in the game...but Bella, CDB & UT do not deserve votes. Can you 4 would-be lynchers be more productive with your votes?

Could you clarify what confused you exactly, maybe by quoting a handful of the posts?

NP.

It wasn't the first time someone questioned whether you were contradicting yourself, so both instances of ooba & 4b questioning you overlapped each other in my mind and I failed to remember that they were separate. Earlier, ooba brought up you possibly agreeing/disagreeing with him & wgeurts on the same list of names, and then it was more recent that 4b asked if you were changing your read of him due to Shinobi also changing his read. It wasn't until you threw the question marks at me that I decided to take a 2nd look at 4b's question. At that point it hit me that 4b wasn't involved (/wasn't the same person) in your exchange with ooba wrt your agreeing/disagreeing on his & wgeurts' reads. Blaaaaaaah.

How appropriate it is that I used the embarrassed smiley.

Cabd replaces Ward.

Oh shit...

I MEAN, oh hello there, how's it going, nice to see me? Ok. Oh but yeah I'm town this time so I won't be a selective prick towards you, teehee.

I never did get a chance to amend my profile with you. We shouldn't butt heads that much since I'm a superhero now...Then again you're replacing Ward...

I am not a bad player bro. My late game playstyle is where I shine as town/scum.

Same, kinda. That's cool. Glad to see you're not flaking. Seriously, don't flake.

Kise

- Post 84 is bland and dry. Post 126 is amusing. Rest of the content is meh, but not scummy per say.

Like varsoon

, he's a player whose style is very at odds with mine, so I'm probably gonna find somebody i think is ubertown and make them sort him.

[Kise]

I am not a bad player bro. My late game playstyle is where I shine as town/scum.

Hello Titus

I am not titus
But titus is aweasom anyway so its cool.

So you guys are lynching ghandi. Somebody cool wanna tell me why?

Basically it's because the asked the mod how many persons are needed for a lynch.

Still I feel that might be a slight scum slip or an honest mistake. I am not sure because it feels so dumb

Why is it a scumslip
Do you understand what's going on?

Yes, It might be a slip of a scum trying to play newb card but failing so hard at it>?

I'm about 100% sure that that isn't what you would call a scumslip. Maybe just call it wgeurt or the fellow scum who put him up to it being a dumbass/es.

[Kise]

Got anything that tops me hammering a buddy in my first post, fifth page?

[Kise]

@PV, the link where TF showed a completed game of wgeurts that used the common lynch majority rule and not the 2/3 rule. Sup with the ZZZX vote?

[Kise]

I'm not understanding the ZZZX scum read nexus, care to explain it again?

Stick a fork in him, folks.

[Kise]

Bbl don't prod

[Kise]

WE WILL NEVER BE SLAVES

[Kise]

I'll be able to read tomo.

[Kise]

The whole wguerts wagon just reeks of "This is Singer and Glork leading this. They know what they're talking about. BAAAAAAAAA"

Didn't like how wgeurts repeatedly ignored the linked game. Oh well.

Shinobi, who would you sacrifice to get into the illuminati?

[Kise]

Vote: Chevre

I've got 9 more pages to see but I am with this. I mainly think of Chevre being outspoken about wgeurts' wagon, asking why he had votes, being answered, and still asking why wgeurts was being voted. And I see the day ended with his vote on ZZZX still hoping for a policy lynch with Bro, Nexus & PV. Not good company.

I was uneasy with Shinobi from D1 but I think Shinobi is town for reasons that are anti-town if said publicly. Respect pls.

[Kise]

@Shinobi - Iso @Chevre and tell me he isn't at least slightly more scummy than most of the playerbase. Would town or scum be more likely to play the way he has/taken the positions in the manner that he has? Additionally, he's voting ZZZX currently which I just don't understand.

You see it too, I think? I'm no good at case making but if our guts are in the same place, I'll take that help. I'm split on how strong I feel about Chevre being scum because his mocking(?) of the wgeurts' wagon seems too easy of a thing to accuse someone for.

Okay, one last post before I go to bed about why the "omg he's lying about the 2/3 majority" thing was a shitty argument, using decision theory. I'm going to lay this out mastin-style: super clear and over-explainy, since I don't want this to go over anyone's head.

Is this your followup to scumreading TF? If not, what are you going for with this post? To be up front with you, I took it as further mislynch shaming.

I feel that BRO is trying to shame us

Only quoting this because I find it spooky that I used the same word.

I feel that BRO is trying to shame us making it seem like the wgeurts wagon was idiotic when in reality it was a good wagon as any. Not the greatest one, but not the worst.

From what game I've played with BRO I've seen him do this as town so I have slight town read on him.

bro is being pretty singular in his functioning which kinda points to town.

Maybe. Are you laying off CTD?

@Chevre

is getting a lot of townreads and I'll listen to the crowd for now. Post #1131 helped. Shinobi's lynch will be way tastier anyway.

:<

Don't know what to say. I'm not feeling any of the reasons given for townreading Chevre.

@Aegor, I think AD will be settling back in from Titus' meet soon. That said, without saying who I'm watching out for, I am waiting for more posts from some individuals before locking in an updated scum list.

@PV, I'm not trying to vote you, but are you doing selective reading or have you caught up on things in order?

[Kise]

Alrighty then. Something to debate post game either way.

[Kise]

I was voting ZZZX as of my first post.

[Kise]

That's what she said


























































.

[Kise]

Not Voting (3): Kise, vezokpiraka, jmj3000

Anyways, I'm off to bed.

Gotcha. In that case I still don't know what there is to hate. Illuminate me?

[Kise]

Send good futa to his inbox. Might work.

[Kise]

now if only mollie would stop fucking with people, we could all ride together.

[Kise]

Vote: Chevre

I've got 9 more pages to see but I am with this. I mainly think of Chevre being outspoken about wgeurts' wagon, asking why he had votes, being answered, and still asking why wgeurts was being voted. And I see the day ended with his vote on ZZZX still hoping for a policy lynch with Bro, Nexus & PV. Not good company.

I was uneasy with Shinobi from D1 but I think Shinobi is town for reasons that are anti-town if said publicly. Respect pls.

So I kinda think Chevre is scum, too, but I doubt he was sitting on a vanity wagon with his whole scumteam. Like, maybe they did it for the lulz or something but.

It's not that I have the whole mafia voting on ZZZX, it's just that, as regular players, PV & BRO were prod dodging all day. I don't see those two wagoning ZZZX for anything other than the PL it started out as, and so I don't see what reason Chevre would have to think there was support / legit reasons to string up ZZZX. By that time, ZZZX was posting and proving he wouldn't flake.

[Kise]

Null
17. Kise

I haven't lost a beat, guys!

[Kise]

Null
17. Kise

I haven't lost a beat, guys!

fwiw I think you are hitting all of the right notes.

I think bro is town.

Null is no biggie. Even in f2f, I was universally unreadable. I think all but you have put me as null in this game. Would you consider switching me out from the town box to null? Pret please? It'll complete the circle of death and I will have ALL the power from the void.

Bro is 100% town depending on his game.

[Kise]

lol

Well I guess this is the drawback of being null. Null =/= pull. Couldn't get ward lynched d1, prob won't get Chevre lynched today.

RIP in peace PV

pls claim vig so the votes switchover

[Kise]

We talking about practice.

[Kise]

but mollie what's going on with ctd?

[Kise]

Wb, gl with the 40-50 page catchup.

I never did get to ask: In that Zelda game, why did you think I would be able to catch you or lynch you if I were town?

I kind of just woke up and don't feel like reading these paragraphs right now. Maybe at all.

[Kise]

LOL some of the shit ppl get banned for. I didn't see that coming from AA9.

[Kise]

Anybody wanna counterclaim VT?

[Kise]

Kise's posting is terrible

8 mor vite pls

[Kise]

fuk u riltin, not nice

[Kise]

I'm actually becoming bothered by that vote. Have you fully caught up?

[Kise]

They can wait. Talk to me.

[Kise]

a) The post by Kise here is golden. The line at the bottom basically says "If my actions aren't incredibly pro-town by responding to cases etc.. ignore it, as I don't want to play like that! Ignore my anti town actions please". I don't like how Kise here sets himself up as an excuse to avoid cases against him.

It's basically not. Reality is I made that post to mock ppl acting hard on D1. It's not D1 any more and I don't recall doing that again.

b) Kise easily set himself up for an easy hop onto the Wgeurts wagon here. Most people sheeped Triforce, and while I can understand that, Kise's responing was one of the worst. "I just realised who Triforce is!" is a bit of a bad statement; it implies he wasn't willing to vote on the wgeurts wagon at first, but upon learning whom Triforce is a hydra of, he'll blindly sheep. In my opinion, it's even worse than the naked votes or the 'I agree' type statements as he blatantly awknowledges he wasn't 100% convinced until he's learned "Oh, you're experienced right? You must be correct then!".

I would have voted sooner than I did if I were to blindly sheep. Don't read my iso. Look at what Triforce linked before I voted. It was shown that wgeurts was in a game where 2/3 wasn't used. Newb scum seemed to fit his description, especially when he repeatedly failed to acknowledge that particular game ITT.

I'm repeating that I did not sheep. I voted because wgeurt neglected to comment on the matter - this too - and I took his avoidance to be caught scum. Also, I didn't know who Triforce was beforehand. If they were someone new in my life, I wasn't going to trust their judgement, but having mainly seen Glork as town (can't remember a game with singer as town) I know he's worth supporting if he sees something. I only have f2f experience with Glork as scum so I can't consider that. Didn't hurt to put more pressure on wgeurts either. Cept when it did ofc.

c) Kise's "Anyone want to CC VT?" post is extremely bad. For one, there's not going to be only 2 VTs in a 24 player game. To me it looks like an easy attempt to push a mislynch of someone I townread. I think in this game, the best way to figure out fakeclaims is to look for game counterclaims, as PerV says. That's either terrible logic from Kise or scum, and I'm leaning towards the latter.

I'll put 'j/k' next time?

d) Your ISO is 90% rubbish. There's a lot of fluff and fake content in there with the ocassional thought sprinkled in for afterthought. Posts like this, this, this, and this are just bad; they're posts which includes a lot of quotes but barely reply back anything in return except perhaps a 1-liner. Not only are they extremely irritating to read, they're usually done by scum to give the false impression of 'activity' when they are actually saying very little.

What I see below the quote sections are my expressions, agreeances and replies. I don't see the problem. Not expressing where I stand & not answering ppl leaves them w/o information.

I've gone through some of Kise's recent scumgames and towngames and his meta supports my conclusions:

If that's how you wanna see it, so be it but I intentionally avoid repeating patterns. It USUALLY works to keep people from knowing what I do as any alignment and certain PRs. You can dig up dirt but lol c'mon, those games are like a year/almost 2 years old. The main goal is to enjoy myself, as you'd see in Mainstream (town) & Touhou (mafia).

Desp, mollie, AD, Maj, & Cabd were in Touhou and haven't given me shit. What does that tell you? Don't meta chaos. And honestly, only Mainstream is a good example to use anyway, since I played it from start to finish. I replaced into Olympic Gods while being confirmed as mason so I let my nuts hang out. I had to be replaced from Touhou D2 or D3, I forget which. I only made 10 posts in the Zelda game and then got killed N1

BY DAN WHO I SHOULD HAVE KILLED LAST NIGHT

. You can amend this suspicion but I don't believe you thoroughly researched me, since I got feisty with you.

You left out a town game
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... l#p4822779
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... l#p4879823 (check esu's reply)
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... l#p4880511
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... l#p4885019
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... l#p4885113
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... l#p4884908


I became feisty with you due to the timing of your vote. I took a guess u voted me for requesting Chev votes, but "wtf" because u didn't even finish reading (or so I thought) to see if Chevwagon was legit. If you are fully caught up, I don't feel it's okay to call someone's iso rubbish with your own content being a single analysis of the person you are scumreading. You wanna see me lynched, I get that, but you have no catch up post & 5 other reads with no explanation behind them. I strongly disagree with and/or refute the 4 points you brought up. A = my stance on srs bsns bullshit

day 1

. B = no. C = a joke that went over your head. D = what Im' giving your mama tonight.

Shit dn't sit right with me because you were obviously keeping tabs on the thread without offering any thoughts. I now await your rebuttal. Thoughts on Chev btw?
- (expired on 2014-11-14 16:31:08)

[Kise]

Scumgames, Kise tends to lurk more, and post big quote walls with one-liner responses to them, ala what I've found in point d) of my case. Kise in scumgames tends to post more fluff and bullshit like we're seeing here, too. Needless to say, Kise's ISO here is matching his scumgame.

There's notably less effort from his part and more 'fake activity'. He does more jokes/fluff posts as scum and quotes large blocks of text with 1-liner replies as scum, as well.

I had 200 posts in Mainstream (town) while playing for 4 months, putting my average at 50 posts per month.
I had 100 posts in Touhou (mafia) while playing for 1 month, putting my average at 100 posts per month.
I have 49 posts in this game and it's almost been a month, probably putting my average at 50-60 posts per month.

One more chance, Riddle.

[Kise]

Bella.

[Kise]

Not feeling pc or Dan votes.

unvote
Vote: aegor

"Will glay lynch kise"
But ctrl+f'ing my name brings up no read or real interaction with me. Kay.

I'm out all night and I know my phone is fucking up the spellings.

And yeah Mollie I fear chev would end up town and then Ridd was gon push me tomo - If he's scum, planning shit. Ridd's vote and makeshift meta case seemed too ulterior motiveish.

[Kise]

then why are you voting with her?

he prob thinks pc is getting lynched. I im not 100% commuting to scum reading riddler, but if it's a bus, let him bus.

Mollie I think I love you.

[Kise]

Is crb lurking or am I tripping?

[Kise]

You mean why I haven't wrote up a big case on Aegor like I did with Kise? My reasons for suspecting Aegor have already been said by others; I see no reason to repeat them myself.

But when I do it, it's called wheeling.
Kay.

Pedis: sheeping**

[Kise]

Don't gimme that no shit. I will shoot you and that duck.

[Kise]

Who said anything about day?
Alright this is happening. Mess with the bull u get the horns.

Perot: don't know what that means. Will read tomorrow.

[Kise]

You mean why I haven't wrote up a big case on Aegor like I did with Kise? My reasons for suspecting Aegor have already been said by others; I see no reason to repeat them myself.

how about instead you explain your thought progression as to what led you to make a case on kise and metadive in the first place since you feel like you don't need to do this with aegor and are instead just sheeping a somewhat popular scumread. cos searching for activity level is a weird thing to do unless you had reason to do it in the first place.

cos I would be really interested in hearing that.

I made a bigger case on Kise because he's not a popular read at all. No one's just going to be convinced if I just say, 'by the way XYZ is scum', especially if they've been considered nullish or town by the majority of players. I find his gameplay and style qquite suspicious and scummy. The reason I 'metadived' is because the crux of my scumread on Kise was based on something that could have been null depending on playstyle (that is, point d). I metad some of his past games (though not as attentive as I could have been with that, I admit and am sorry) to check if his playstyle which I talked about was alignment indicative. My read on Kise is currently null after that clarification from him.

The reasons for suspecting Aegor are already out in the open which I've already said. I'm not repeating what others have said, plain and simple. Hence it isn't particularly necessary to metadive or write up a huge case on him.

this isn't really answering why you would metadive him in the first place cos at that time there were several players who exhibited a similar playstyle. (including the 1 you inherited).

@ kise

the last time some1 told me they loved me I vigged them.

they didn't love u hard enough. It's okay.

[Kise]

No that wasn't a soft claim. It's anti town for other reasons. I wasn't trying to clear Shinibi or break his wagon. The thing I was talking about is why I wouldn't vote Shinobi.

Also I'm not trying to say an amnesiac cop or inventor gave me something to get a read on Shinobi, so don't think that either.

[Kise]

Kise's scumhunting has been very shallow. He's only taken two strong stances all game long, his vote on wgeurts and his recent vote on Aegor.

As far as "strong" reads go, you're almost right. Youve been through my iso - see what I have to say about Ward's slot. It's in more than one post. Now see what I just told Mollie about Riddleton. Idk how many ppl you expect me to accuse but those 4 + my new take on Chev are good enough.

I'm chill on Ward/Cabd because he hasn't been able to catch up yet but as soon as I get a read on HIM, I'll let u know. I also had a "cop these ppl" list, which means they aren't strong scumreads but they are ppl who my gut says are probably scum that wouldn't be figured out without 100% proof.

I've looked at the player list and I haven't personally interacted with ooba, vezok, jmj and kind of TF. I don't count that post u quoted as a real interaction.

[Kise]

My lynch+cop feelings in this post have changed a bit: Add Majiffy & Chevre to the cop list & maybe take ZZZX off the lynch list if he's participating. Put PV in-between those lists if he simply dodges/responds to a prod again. This doesn't look like strategic lurking from town, so I can't pardon him.

I'm just gonna say, I'm pretty sure I was the last to (LOG IN AND) confirm my role. There may have been at least one other name not highlighted but I scrolled down that one time and only remember seeing I wasn't bolded. So, this is an odd thing to make note of. I would not be surprised if this was him defending his buddy. It should have been obvious what ZZZX was being voted for on page 1.

For whatever reason, wgeurts didn't get around to addressing Triforce's link (kekeke) that came before his last series of post. Not moving my vote.

On that note, the only thing I personally suspect Nexus for is snapping at Juls over the misspelling. I mean, it kinda gets to me when people call me

kee-say

, but sheesh, was it worth cursing her out?

Some of you may know I don't make town lists early in the game. For those of you who don't know, I don't make town list early in the game...but Bella, CDB & UT do not deserve votes. Can you 4 would-be lynchers be more productive with your votes?

Cabd replaces Ward.

Oh shit...

I MEAN, oh hello there, how's it going, nice to see me? Ok. Oh but yeah I'm town this time so I won't be a selective prick towards you, teehee.

I never did get a chance to amend my profile with you. We shouldn't butt heads that much since I'm a superhero now...Then again you're replacing Ward...

@Aegor, I think AD will be settling back in from Titus' meet soon. That said, without saying who I'm watching out for, I am waiting for more posts from some individuals before locking in an updated scum list.

@PV, I'm not trying to vote you, but are you doing selective reading or have you caught up on things in order?

These are meaty bits that tell of or hint to my reads.

[Kise]

I'm just saying giys,

I will

gladly

jump on a Kise bandwagon, but my other three are preferred.

I don't appear anywhere else in his posts...

[Kise]

...

What I see is 4b having AD & Aegor closer to null than town for all/most of the game.

[Kise]

I'll look at it again in an hour, PV.

Yeah, to ensure a lynch. I don't really have an option and I hate all of the current wagons.

Why do you hate the Kise wagon?

It feels like half the players not voting Kise are of the opinion that "Kise case is good, but I'd rather vote someone else" and half the players not voting Kise have completely ignored the wagon. Frustrating to say the least.

By that same token, I'd like to open up a convo with you so you better understand me. Did you get a chance to see my replies to you from the other day/maybe yesterday?

@cdb, well, fingers crossed.

[Kise]

Did you laugh at least?

@PV, I see what you mean but I don't think 4b is being totally inconsistent. He's kinda saying AD is null for lurking, and then saying he could also be an easy votepark for scum/Aegor. If he had said AD was still null even after burst posting, then I'd agree there may be something associative there, as you put it.

Also@CDB, you told Riddleton I wasn't scummy. What about CTD's case convinces you this time?

[Kise]

Hey. Lets continue our convo from 1659 onward. Have a look, why don't you?

[Kise]

I hate that CTD isn't even trying to give me a chance. Koba and TF are lazy votes. I don't like them any more. And I don't expect CTD to read my shit so I'll have to move on.

vote: triforce

I remembered how hit or miss I am. Gonna keep that mild Chev townread and take Riddle from scum to null for now. I'm still waiting to get a read on Cabd so in the meantime, TF is prob scum. Not making a case on my phone, but this is who we should get after I'm pushed to claim.

ZzzZzzZz

[Kise]

I want town bloc status.

Square enix mafia town bloc? But jmj would be in that .....

Didn't someone say AD flipped lurker town recently?

[Kise]

Whatever, let's just lynch dan.

Unvote; Vote: ActionDan

I think Chevre is the most likely to be scum, but I don't realistically see him being lynched today.

Dan was lynched for not contributing recently and flipped town. I'm happy he isn't being fatalistic in this game. We can do much better than Dan with our lynch today.

Yah

[Kise]

unvote
Vote: ooba

Wolf in sheep's clothing. I expect more from you.

[Kise]

makes perfect sense

CTD is willfully ignorant. CDB and TF are coming off vla so they have allowed time to catch up and refresh. On the other hand, ooba has been here and he has ignored my defense in favor of sheeping CTD. It's little more than. Push to get my claim confirmation regarding Shinobi, which I've already said had nothing to do with me as a PR defending him.

When you think of ooba in this game, what comes to mind? What is he known for doing here?

Wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Kise]

I think of him as someone who's researched the reck games and speculating on which games were chosen for their PRs. I don't remember his cases, if there were any. Riddle was my first voter. CTD is scumhunting me. Anyone else is sheeping, and ooba is the biggest offender from that group since he hasn't involved himself with my replies/defense and is instead letting CTD (or whoever else) take the wheel.

[Kise]

What V/LA have I been on, exactly?

Oh okay I guess you were lurking. I could've sworn you had to make a few catch up posts because you were away. Why the. Haven't you gone over my defense?

[Kise]

Why then***

[Kise]

Will be back in this game when everyone else is back in this game.

[Kise]

Happy thanksgiving....is that...is that NACHO?

BB tomo.

[Kise]

I've been away from home and have more than a few pages to read from phone. Can't do any quoting because that's hell to do. I saw you asked about it, Shinobi, and I did not soft claim when I defended you. I don't mind saying it if it means that much but I feel it gives the wrong people ideas.

[Kise]

well I think you're a power role and that's why you've been playing poorly - you don't give scum a reason to target you

plain and simp version...I already warned it would be anti town to say why but there you go

[Kise]

Town power role***, in case anyone wants to be funny

I had just finished mentioning to farside that your scumteam wiped the floor with her in another game so I couldn't see you as scum since you weren't out to impress everyone

[Kise]

don't know what Kise is talking about Square Enix Mafia. I don't think I was in that game

Noonononono, I was telling vezok that we could have a Square Enix voting block since ooba(?) didn't put him in the town block. Also I looked at my old games a while ago and I believe I saw you and at least one other person in it. It was pretty much a fluff post to cheer vezok up.

I can't even put stock in your ooba read since you don't even seem to care much about having him lynched at this point.

I do. I don't get indignant and yell. What I laid out is this: I'e offered a rebuttal to CTD's case and no one took me up on it. Anyone should feel free to question me, not just CTD, yet it's largely ignored. That's why I said I'll let TF & CDB (who I had earlier metioned might be lurking) catch up, while targeting ooba. I really want ooba to engage me to be sure this is the vote he wants to make since he's more up to date & in the thread than the other people voting me. If you don't think I'm serious because I'm not saying "he needs to die" like people are saying about me, I'm just not that full of myself.

@EVERYONE - Has Bella's play made up for Desp's Day 1?

I had no problems with Desp. Have no problems with Bella.

Kise - Die. Appeal to authority to relinquish responsibility for a lynch and something something CTD said that we agreed with.

In other words you haven't read my reply to CTD either.

interesting to note, he also thinks my role is superfluous!

What'd you claim?

CTD, read my posts. I'm begging at this point.

I got 4 more pages to read...I popped a few bottles tonight and don't know if I can handle more, so if I don't post again in a few mins, cya tomo.

[Kise]

Huh. That's not why my play is less than stellar, but okay.

Stop lying. you're a PR and scum should kill you tonight 100%

Admit it.

[Kise]

Second it being weird as shit for vezok to claim to clear two players, on 2 and 0 votes, who were never going to get lynched anyway. And it's not as if claiming game would clear anything up, either, as far as I can tell (though I'm barely awake, I guess).

If by weird as shit you mean town as shit and inoptimal, sure. If you're trying to spin this into some half naked vezok is scum argument, then please check your life.

@second part, there's no other way to spin it. My wagon is scum af except CTD.

Appealing to authority to relinquish responsibility for a lynch suggests that the scum player in question is afraid to assume responsibility for said lynch. What makes you think kise scum would be afraid to say "oops, I lynched town?". I don't think he's expected to be the most accurate player in this playerlist and I think he's a pretty ballsy scum in general, soooo

Can't hide it any more, I'm sick of my wagon. Yes I've done ballsy shit and don't need to hide behind others, ty. I've blocked my own scumbuddy just so I would be cleared by a watcher. I've hammered a buddy in my first post and made it to lylo. I've claimed masons with a buddy early af and won. I gave inventions to townies in that touhou game - I got replaced but my slot lived to endgame and won.

I don't need triforce to be my meatshield. The both of them should know I;m abnormal, so shame on them for calling me a sheep. K and what are they doing by following CTD?

It also seems like a pretty ballsy and not scum staying out of the spotlight to vote immediately after CDB's post which was a possible momentum shift: if he was trying to hide behind Triforce, it seems like a likelier move from scum-Kise would just be to let Triforce defend their own read/actually wait to see if the town case did anything before sticking his neck out and trying to gain momentum back.

I was actually voting because TF finally came up with a link showing wgeurts was lying about knowing what the standard voting majority was. Earlier, I was pressuring wgeurts when I said "I now know who Triforce is, so wgeurts is a good wagon". I didn't publicly say I was pressuring him, but why would I..

Nacho I can't suck you dick enough. Thank you for showing up.

I don't have a good answer for that question.

Why should I vote him?

He hasn't done that reread of the thread and hasn't provided his own reasoning for finding me scum over anyone he

may

have personally suspected.

You mean to tell me Riddle & CTD (REPLACEMENTS) can come in here and scumhunt me, and suddenly these people who have been here from the beginning (and had no prior scumread on me) can just tag along and let CTD do all the work? I am not a wgeurts. I am right here ready to talk to whoever wants to engage me and not ignore them. I townread CTD, but everyone voting me including him has not gone over my defense and/or mentioned why they're holding to theory instead of my explanation. I'm really hating this wagon. It's been about 2 irl weeks since #1659-62 and no one is having a convo with me about those. I don't have anywhere else to go without further questioning of me, and I'm the leading wagon, and it's 5 days to deadline, and I see where this is going.

VOTE: ooba

[Kise]

What convo? You didn't put up much of a defense. I was aware of the posts you quoted and I don't see a broad list of "people you would cop" mid D1 and "hints of reads" as an argument against my point that you are lacking in pro-town effort.

Bullshit. Read it for real, this isn't funnya ny more.

How about you address the fact that you had your vote parked on a guy you didn't even push with conviction for most of D2? I'd also argue that your Aegor vote again came at a critical time in terms of momentum but I'd be talking out of my ass as I haven't checked back to confirm.

I wasn't around most of day 2. I vividly remember prod dodging 3-4 times.

Just checked...so yeah I was voting Chev with Shinobi to rebel against his wagon. I asked who he would sacrificed to illuminati and he said Chev. He was also voting Chev and I joined him. I listed reasons for why I could see Chev as scum.

I didn't push Chev with conviction? I suppose not, but keep in mind I've also said a few times that I was waiting to hear from a mystery player (cabd) without telling them who I was eyeballing. It wasn't the strongest vote and I'll give you that, but I believed in it at the time because Chev's D1 attitude still nagged me. I mainly needed something to do while waiting on more from Cabd. I have no reason to dissolve a link between that slot and ZZZX due to Ward (I'm sure this was covered in 1659-62), but right now neither are bigger fish to fry. This is multifaceted stuff.

Why is Chevre a mild townread?

I'm thinking if Riddleton is scum, he tried to set me up with the okie doke so that Chev & I could flip back to back. You called me out on a lack of conviction to lynch Chev, so you already know there's room for me to reassess him. I've since put RIddleton as null. Both of those reads will be considered down the line, but for now I'm not jumping at Riddle like I was D2, so Chev is a mild townread - Id put Chev as a full townread if Riddle is scum.

Let me remind you that Kise was not voting at the time, so the more pertinent question is why not vote with him if he is town. The timing of the vote is still completely wrong. If he actually believed wgeurts was scum as strongly as his vote indicated, why not vote earlier? If you are town and you think a player is scum, momentum shouldn't factor into your decision to vote that player and yet it distinctly felt like he was voting for momentum.

I took my vote off of ZZZX because 4b said he would vote him if it weren't for Chev & me already wagoning. Chev had unvoted sometime after or between that..I forget when. But basically I was fucking with 4b to see what he would do. And like I said earlier tonight, I wanted to pressure wgeurts so I mentioned that triforce was the real deal.

Now if you really read 1659+++ you will see that when I finally DO vote wheurts, it was after TF linked to the game where wgeurts ackfuckingknowledged the voting majority/thresholds, which fell in line with

1/2 of the living players +1

and NOT 2/3 of the living players as wgeurts ignorantly claimed he expected.

This was already . Get off your ass and save me.

@kise i tried looking at your last post and I can see why would town you do that but it feels a little bit too.... un realistic...

I think you might be a traitor or something so...

VOTE: Kise

I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake.

[Kise]

General question CTD: do u get more of a read out of me or ooba?

[Kise]

That answered it. Im saying ooba is sly enough to be off your radar. I'm giving myself to you so I can be read. The null reads are from people unsure of my motives, but I'm not in the shadows like that black cat.

[Kise]

Also people, I haven't attempted those slam dunk cases in a long time. I got burned one time I was all DIE MOTHERFUCKER and it was embarrassing so I play it patient. If I take potshots, you'll notice I don't discredit.

I was on a roll in Mainstream mafia but that was like my first time lynching nothing but scum and leading. I've been scum in my last 6 or 7 games so it's hard to find anything on me that's updated, but I don't like making cases. Showing why someone is scum or scummy should be simple, not a chore.

[Kise]

Suggestions for the track?

Mystery meat Monday.

nacho yelled at me on gchat.

UNVOTE:

I see CTD as the town one of the bunch. Sorry UT, BUT, I could give a fuck about anyone else voting me.

I am resigning myself to the fact that Kise isn't getting lynched today, so I'll look at other options.

*poppin' bottles*

Bella's never mentioned me before those D3 posts.
"I do like the ooba case, though. It looks quite promising as a line of attack."

CDB what do you think of ooba & Bella?

ooba, what's happened to your reads of everyone you've previously voted? I'm obviously trying to look busy but this may be a good question.

[Kise]

Kise vs Ooba is the flavor of the week I see.

I got to thinking, it's been about 2 weeks and our hot discussions have been on jmj (somewhat), ooba & myself. Doesn't seem like much was worked out.

Kise - my thoughts on ooba and Bella, as with all other players, have been defined very recently. I'm on the fence about ooba but think he's probably a good lynch due to where my other townreads are, while I think that Bella is town.

Just want to point out, you scumread me for saying this. ooba says the same thing about Bella and you're on the fence.

I'm focusing on the fact the he specifically says 2 goons. That's been my big issue. What vezok actually says is "I doubt scum has such bad luck that they got only goons." (Post #1996). He then proceeds to say "If scum have 2 goons, I feel sorry for them" (Post #2148). Facetious or not, you shouldn't be feeling sorry for scum if you're town. You should be happy they don't have a lot of power. He also says "Unless cabd is the governor or the weird godfather he is not scum" (Again, post #1996) What weird godfather? The only one I can see in ooba's list that doesn't have any abilities, is the godfather from Chuck, and that's because that used the standard role description. Also, speaking of ooba's list, can we all agree to stop fucking using it? It's not complete, it's not accurate, and it's a lazy way of getting information. Go look shit up on your own, you'll find so many holes in that list that it's not even funny.

I like jmj for town too. I get why "2 goons" is pinging for you but I see vezo saying that because he believes the mafia are using the same killer every night, which is likely not going to be a PR like Nexus so they don't risk losing a power to a tracker - vezo. If the mafia are using the same killer, then from vezo's POV, Cabd & ZZZX are in the clear.

@4b, I don't see anything being done with TF today but they haven't done any actions differently this entire phase. If you're having suspicions about them, keep it in mind. You aren't alone.

[Kise]

@Kise

. You're probably town based on a reply to CTD, yes?

Town based on the role reck sent me.
But really, which reply? CDB said he unvoted me for something I said.

[Kise]

Yeah.

[Kise]

You just want more compliments..

[Kise]

Kise feel free to not answer if it's revealing, but your Shinobi read: role related or play related?

His play. I mentioned earlier (because he said to go ahead and say it) that it was because he plays similar to a PR who doesn't want to draw a kill by making himself seem lynchable, thus not worth mafia's bullets.

Since I'm on the subject, @Chevre, you mistook my joke for a serious attempt to get Shinobi to out himself.

[Kise]

Gonna keep it real, I still don't see what PV sees in his case against 4b & Shinobi, and I kind of feel crappy now for not asking help in understanding it. It hurts that I'm townreading those 2 as well.

[Kise]

ooba (10): Kise, Shinobi, Riddleton, 50 Shades of Purple, Bella, 4burner, ChannelDelibird, Untrod Tripod, Chevre, Triforce

Bussing probably comes in after Bella's vote. I don't think I'm a sucker and really don't see Desp's actions as scummy.

I got some heavy stuff to say tomorrow. Peace, love.

[Kise]

prodge; busy 1more day

[Kise]

Sorry guys I've had work, 2 birthdays + my nephew's coming up soon.

Lemme just check the last few pages.

[Kise]

He's goon at worst right> Don't give a fuck about him but it'd be cool if we hit PRs.

ZX why did you call me traitor exactly?

Chev can you explain your read of me?

[Kise]

Doesn't seem like jmj as scum (supposedly a Godfather) would allow his teammates to kill 50 after that towncase while vezo & AD suspected him. Why kill your supporters, especially when 50 didn't leave any big suspects after ooba? If they killed 50 for being charismatic town, that's random when compared to the SK & Iec kills. Those two were louder about who they felt should be lynched, whereas 50 was focused on one scum at a time. Not to forget 50 claimed harmless Coroner.

[Kise]

Vote: Triforce

Good wagon.

[Kise]

Kise SHOULD know this.

Face to face? I remember you two in lylo with me and Mina or mollie. The other town voted me, then you two grinned and mislynched me and I was sad. Then Mina or mollie was like "wow singer fooled me, gj girlfriend" and I cried inside.

I will agree that singer can be pointed out when scum and she hates it, but that's what I remember from the Commune visits. I haven't played/seen an online game with either of you individually in a long time so I'm not even sure who's been posting when and where. I think the last time I played with singer was under my alt and she endgamed us as scum. Last I played with you Glork...oh dear. Cali Trilogy 3 perhaps.

I'm just gonna go ahead and speculate that ZZZX is softclaiming princess since time is of the essence. He needs to fight back with something because otherwise I'm not thrilled with his reply. No lynch might be worth it if we can get Dan on the case.

[Kise]

I'm a God.

[Kise]

Kinda sad Nacho dies after making a towncase for jmj and this happens. I'm still gonna honor that.

[Kise]

Mala was never in this game idt.

[Kise]

@Kise

- Why not ZZZX and why Triforce now?

He told me something bogus about why he thought I was traitor, but I picked up on the BP softclaim. Instead of voting, I called him on it so we could hurry up and get that out of the way and stop him from being lynched.

Triforce was one of ooba's supporters last phase. Tupac said I should ride on my enemies.

And finally, this is going to sound grim but should we lynch ZZZX

Not worth

I'm a God.

What you mean by this Kise?

I'm a God.

Why block vez tho?

[Kise]

Nacho made.a..good case

[Kise]

Logging off.

[Kise]

Get well soon...

Vote: Triforce

[Kise]

@Dan, do you think you were blocked?

[Kise]

He said he didn't have a rez.

[Kise]

Also they betrayed me and tried to lynch me 2 days in a row.

[Kise]

I was going to go through Ooba's iso to spot any associations I may have missed, but fuck it it can wait until we're 6 hours away from a deadline right?

You are all pissing me off to a large degree.

That's what happens when you kill Nacho.

I felt like doing him proud earlier but got lazy, plus I don't think it needs to be that complicated. It may be easier to agree on a lynch after giving town lists. FTR I would have voted Cabd so you can consider me as a mislyncher in your VCA.

[Kise]

@Shinobi/Kise - you are going to have to do more if you want a Triforce lynch.

Couldve sworn you were on board other day but I ofc could be mistaking you for someone else. Don't expect that slot to scumslip in any event.

There's a lot of new, big posts - mostly from you - and it's not right to skim that right now. I'm going to sleep, then I'll be heading out for the rest of the day/night. I'll read everything tomorrow and get back with you.

You guys should go see Selma. And wtf

[Kise]

There's a lot of new, big posts - mostly from you - and it's not right to skim that right now. I'm going to sleep, then I'll be heading out for the rest of the day/night. I'll read everything tomorrow and get back with you.

Still need to read.

Still hungover

. Still procrastinating.

[Kise]

taking advil and water
bb

[Kise]

How about we plan out what to do in the event ZZZX is town and there's 2 nights. We could see Dan go I would think, and then what? Back to squabbling with PV vs 4b? Can we at least get a 1 nighter lynched today so there's not 2 chances to lose Dan? Plus if jmj is town, he can block the kill tonight, but wouldn't be able to do so the 2nd night (assuming ZZZX is lynched today).

In my mind, a plan would be to have Dan cop ZZZX or whoever, even me, we just need a result badly because we obviously don't know shit and keep dragging to deadline. Hope there's either a doc or jmj blocks the right one, then tomorrow we can see what's up with Dan and jmj's targets.

Outside of Dan, jmj & ZZZX, I will agree to remove my bias and lynch someone. Is there a negative to having these 3 live the night?

[Kise]

That's not a hard negative.

[Kise]

Did you say it was weird when the claimed coroner died over the claimed tracker last phase?

[Kise]

h/o. You're suggesting scum will kill one of those 3, but turn around and say it's odd (scummy?) that they're alive. IDGI, are they going to be killed UT, or are they suspect? Did I misinterpret your 2 posts just now?

[Kise]

Reminds me, it was supposed to be lynch only in the lost game. bella weren't you in that game?

[Kise]

i Don't remember Bro being a majority scumread, but imagine he's lynched. If he's lying and flips scum, good for us. If he's town, he shoots ZZZX, and maybe ZZZX is town too. Scum kill someone tonight and that's 3 dead town.

That's no different from (mis)lynching ZZZX today and giving scum 2 night kills. You still end up with 3 dead town.

[Kise]

bella weren't you in that game?

I got off my ass and looked, nmo need to answer, Bella.

[Kise]

ZZZX hammering BROseidon is still best solution.

Unovte
Vote: BROseidon

@everyone, unless you are legitimately scumreading Bro, him+ZZZX+the NK = 3 dead town. What's so different between that and lynching ZZZX+2 NKs? None.

[Kise]

Even worse, what if BRO's saint kill still triggers Z's prince effect? That would be 4 dead town instead.

[Kise]

Dan can still go next but I'll claim: Left 4 Dead mafia (my game too!)

[Kise]

Roles.

[Kise]

Dan can still go next but I'll claim: Left 4 Dead mafia (my game too!)

Are we going to wait for Dan to claim his game or should we all just go?

Deadline is in 4 days. Knowing Dan, he'll be here in like 3.



I say every go one now. Why're we game claiming anyway?

[Kise]

Did CDB die, is on vla, or what?

[Kise]

So you claimed your game without knowing why you were claiming it?

I don't have a problem game claiming, and have personal reasons for wanting it done. I thought about it just now and realized "I don't even know why that person said we should game claim"

If it was you, why did you want us game claiming?

[Kise]

I've been pushing for the gameclaim for 2 days now, and I'm doing so because at this stage it helps town more than hurts.


I've been pushing for the gameclaim for 2 days now, and I'm doing so because at this stage it helps town more than hurts.

I agree. I'd like your explicit reason why it helps.

Why is Bro still getting votes when he's not being scumread? It's almost like you guys EXPECT him to be town supersaint.

[Kise]

Why is Bro still getting votes when he's not being scumread? It's almost like you guys EXPECT him to be town supersaint.

I'm p sure everyone voting him thinks he's scum? Where are you getting this statement from?

lack of cases, lack of pointing out where Bro has been scummy, etc

[Kise]

Which is exactly why I think him hammering Bro would still mean 2 nights.

[Kise]

I'm a little weirded out by how Kise is WKing me right now, though.

Something about it feels off.

It's a shit lynch that I have repeatedly pointed out reasons for it being shit. If shit is too harsh, then call it not-thought-out-enough. I do townread you, but my personal read is not what I'mus ing.

[Kise]

K.

Unvote
Vote: Chevre

[Kise]

And you're going with @chevre from that list over the others? Unexpected.

Chev pinged me as the right move. It's kind of tacky for you and PV to vote each other (innit?), and neither of you convinced me that one or the other was scum during your earlier exchanges.

[Kise]

Don't have time to read all this. Anywhere here to catch me up? Brb 30

[Kise]

Anyone***

[Kise]

Lol there's still talk on lynching Bro? Okay. Thanks. I'm still on Chev.

[Kise]

So where ya been CDB?

[Kise]

Not hammering BRO.

I'm heavily considering voting him though.

pedit: what TF said below.

@Tri / @Bella / @kise @cdb & @ctd: is probably town. Work with me on these two, and tell me why not if not, and what I should be looking at.

PV & ZZZX or someone else? I think ZZZX's lynch can only be afforded today in case they are bp and there are 4 remaining scum.
13 players
-ZZZX
-the NK
-the next NK
= 10 (6-7 town, 4-3 scum)

If you meant PV and someone else, I missed it. I think Shinobi scumslipped.

Shinobi, if they're wanting you to hammer, it's because they think you're scum. You don't get a say in if you hammer or not.

Can you confirm someone as not-killer last night?

Like the only way this works out if both of you are town is of BRO never gets lynched to begin with. So why the FUCK are you seriiusku considering voting him

(ie you think he's scum?)

but refusing to hammer

(you think he's town?)

There's some serious cognitive dissonance going on here and that means at least one of you is ~scuuuuummm~

If Shinobi is scum, his slip means that he didn't want to hammer Bro because Bro really is town SS.

I want to assess everyone after I handle my own game. For now I'm with Bro on this and I feel like an idiot.

Vote: Shinobi

[Kise]

I believe bro should get lynched already. If he flips scum then both 4burner and kise are scum.


Interesting how u make him a scum as in defending his "buddy" but you invite his buddy. Thoughts?

Come again?

@TF, Shinobi will refuse to hammer either way.

[Kise]

I believe bro should get lynched already. If he flips scum then both 4burner and kise are scum.

Are you willing to hammer Bro?

[Kise]

Nobody even knows why I want to vote BRO in yet everybody is just like "scumslip lol." How is that even a scumslip?

I don't see how not being 100% on someone's alignment makes me mafia.

It's the "heavily considering voting him" part combined with you not voting or having any known suspects that bothers me most, in combo with what i still feel could have been an unconscious slip.

Why the FUCK to PV, AD, and jmj all have three prods, and have less than 100 posts (who all were original players)? Like, are you guys incapable of playing this game? I think I've had a total of two prods my entire career of 50+ games on this site. Ugh. If any one of you are town why the FUCK are you even bothering playing this game?

I just lost a game in spirit because of this. PV has his spurts, and I still don't get the him vs 4b thing. I'm fine with jmj but I'm not sold on AD. Gut doesn't see CTD as scum despite his non-presence.

jmj3000 > PeregrineV > Shinobi > ZZZX > Kise are the scum or leaning scum reads I have right now, in order of scummiest. I can't help the feeling that I'm wrong on at least one of my town reads, but all re-reads do is reinforce my prior opinions.

To follow up on jmj's last post, if he's GF, you'd need to explain how vezo could verify he was blocked N3. How did you come up with this order, considering what's going on today?

[Kise]

kk

[Kise]

prodge, still nursing cat

[Kise]

bk, reading

[Kise]

PV has his spurts, and I still don't get the him vs 4b thing.

Which part do you not get in terms of my posts?

I dont' get why you've been homed in on 4b so strongly and haven't tried to pin multiple people to go along with him. At this point you should realize no one else feels as strongly about 4b or your case on him as you do. I think someone made a reasonable (at the time) group of him, Shin & myself.

And mine, while you're at it @kise.

Same thing. I don't rely on VCA as much as others, so I don't see why you would use that to lead your reads. The walls have been a pain to get through and a lot of your reads are based on theories of team comp rather than taking a look at the motives (known & the possible underlying) of players.

To continue what I said to PV, I think Shin+4b is more likelier with this recent blowup. It makes them not look in cohoots and I would put them together moreso than Shin+Bro team.

[Kise]

cahoots*

[Kise]

wrong game bae

[Kise]

I think the popular term for it is distancing. I think.

I'm not the only one who doesn't see 4b as yelling at you. You're making him look real good by "getting to you", which people likely won't see as scum vs scum. Glork and TSQ were in a D1 shouting match at the last meet we were all together. "No way they're on a team, holy shit, #yelling"

But guess what? Not only were them nigs teamed, they won.

[Kise]

You 2 had a tiff a few phases ago but it died down. It's only been revived as of the last 2 pages, and it's not as if he was early voting you today. I've been playing mafia too long to let stones go unturned. Why are you so pressed about me teaming you and 4b?

Right now I'm at Shin+4b+ZZZX...and then between Dan and MAYBE there's a bus vote on Bella. Bussing Bella seems so cliche but maybe that's the trick. I'd look at her last though over the others.

[Kise]

I believe bro should get lynched already. If he flips scum then both 4burner and kise are scum.


Interesting how u make him a scum as in defending his "buddy" but you invite his buddy. Thoughts?

Come again?

Please rephrase this ZZZX. I really don't know what you're trying to get across but I know you directed it at me.

[Kise]

Also

Cool. So you have evidence of two different players doing this and your immediate conclusion is that me and the guy I'm not happy with are scum because of it?

More than 2. CBA to go dig up old games to show where else this has happened.
Scum can fight with each other and not have the mod step in because they're just putting on an act. Not that surprising to see hardcore bussing.

[Kise]

How did you and chamber and that other dude win that game again?

[Kise]

Welcome Boo. And thank you.

No comment on my bad scum team?

[Kise]

@BooKitty, start here. Read next 3 posts.

Eh. Paranoia sinking in after looking at that page.

[Kise]

I don't see the point you're trying to bring up?

Ill let u know in a bit

[Kise]

If you want more depth, I'm pretty much looking at you pending Shinobi's scum flip. ZZZX is independently scummy and, as an early spoiler, I was waiting to see what he will post next. The paranoia I mentioned is him calling me a traitor (I wonder why he was even looking for traitor tells and why he didn't consider me as main mafia) and the fact that it'd be shitty to lose because "woh no we can't lynch the princess". The paranoia is pretty much all about ZZZX, and us wasting time mislynching Shinobi. Nothing so far can immediately rectify Shinobi's posting this phase. ZZZX has called me and perhaps someone else as Bro's buddy. Instead of expanding on it, he's prodged damn near all phase.

Instead of waiting for 2 scum flips, I'd be more for getting ZZZX out asap. It clears the air regarding people who possibly protected him for this long. I don't feel I can ask people why they've neglected lynching him this long because nearly no one is looking his way. If it's not you 3, I have Dan on my list. Clearing jmj is safe from either perspective but I think it's a long shot for Dan to actually be cop and actually use his one shot on the GF. For this reason I would say if only one of them were scum, it would be Dan. Too weird/coincidental for it to be jmj plus I have had jmj as town since forever plus Nacho's town case.

I'm still not seeing what you and apparently Riddleton see on PV. I will say that I feel Riddleton is town for not taking the easy route when I was being run up (BEFORE ooba's wagon even started). I would like him to offer more depth since I feel he can be tough and honest, as he was when he replaced into the game.

I will seriously advocate switching to ZZZX before deadline, as he is personally a stronger scumread and he'd be more important to deal with than Shinobi. I didn't want to say anything this soon but whatever. ZZZX really needs to make power plays instead of sniping and prodging. I'm the type that doesn't like repeating myself because I become a broken record. What he needs to say concisely for me is why he thought I was traitor > scum in general, and what he meant in his last post calling me Bro's buddy.

[Kise]

& if he's town, he needs to get that tingle in his booty telling him he may lose soon and if he strongly believes Shinobi is town, a proper defense or town case would be appreciated.

[Kise]

They flip scum and I'd still want a piece of your booty. I've gotten town feels (and called them town) from everyone but Dan. I'm not strong on PV as any alignment, but my gut feels fine about him and says if you and him went back at it, I should be voting you. I thought you were town after claiming because it's pretty risky to claim self watch, but I would feel more comfortable if you can catch someone targeting you with the 100% before they announce it.

[Kise]

Youre' mixing me and 4b up.

[Kise]

Well we don't know if CDB, Boo, Riddleton & Bella have night actions (or me! ). If they do, I'm just saying it's an option for them to target you tonight and then you say tomorrow who all targeted you. Otherwise, they can do whatever.

Also with Shin & ZZZX flipping scum, and the remaining scum killing 2 town, it'll be 9 alive. I think it's safe to lynch you at that point. The danger zone would be 5-6 alive, pending 1-2 remaining scum.

[Kise]

3-6 alive**

[Kise]

Hi. Busy week

more like ftfy mirite?

[Kise]

vote: actiondan

[Kise]

Done deadline lynching.

[Kise]

And assuming I wasn't blocked last night, I'm at 100% for self watching tonight also. Someone read JMJ's posts from late yesterday and tell me if it's scum forgetting details of their fake claim or not.

Dunno but he's targeting you tonight to prove?

[Kise]

I don't get what that means and I love you Dan but just lost 2 games due to lurker scum/SK and also find it hypocrital you call my vote naked but never say why you're on Bro for 3 days straight.

[Kise]

Well I'm tired of deadline lynches if that's what I meant and tired of losing and don't want to give some random townie time to say something scummy. The lurkers don't get to be in the spotlight because someone else screws up. It's a pattern I'm. Noticing in my recent games.

[Kise]

reck knows where i am but prodge for like a few hours

[Kise]

Will read when I wake up

Has ZZZX replied to me or anyone?

[Kise]

Back home!

Real quick, I think Bro is town because he was hyper as scum in my game which recently ended and I can now talk about. He had a great scumteam, so unless you'd argue that he isn't excited about whoever else may be scum with him this game, I think the relaxed+attentive posting ITT means he's town.

Will read everything else I missed shortly.

[Kise]

@Boo, I threw out princess as a guess because of ZZZX's tone. He didn't want to claim because I think he said it was dangerous for town. Princess is the immediate role I think of that would be so important you don't want to claim it. Deadline was also coming up back then and I foresaw him claiming princess eventually, and then either no lynch happening or some scramble lynch, which has been the case once or twice. What I didn't foresee was him ignoring questioning and not being much of a late game pro.

TLDR: I guessed he was princess so we could move on before deadline hit.

Doubt Dan would be voting me if I kept ignoring him. I went to check and noticed I didn't become lynchable until today - last day phase I mentioned him as a possible scum. Today he says me, Bro or ZZZX. Despite his better activity, I'm not moved by his posts today. Know what else isn't moved? My vote.

Ba-dum-tsh

@Bro, if you can live, why not live? Is your role ineffective lylo?

[Kise]

My role is better unclaimed. I will leave it at that. if things gets too sad I will have to claim but lets say that its for the town's advantage that I don't claim my role.

[Kise]

Then chalk it up to difference of experience & opinion of identical situations. I think if you're L-1/nearing L-1, supersaint is fine since you can dictate who you want hammering. If that's AD's honest opinion then it's his.

Cop is fine since it's either claim your results or eat rope. Doc is fine since you're dead either way, but at least the lynch can be used elsewhere. Princess is something I would vehemently be against claiming if I ever got the role, but not if I was in ZZZX's shoes. Doc/cop/ss is something that would save me from being lynched, but I wouldn't be against claiming a PR and saying "it's for town's advantage that I don't claim".

[Kise]

ebwop wouldn't be against claiming and saying "it's for town's advantage" unless I was bp. Every other PR is worth outing.

[Kise]

Not what I said.

Princess is something I would vehemently be against claiming if I ever got the role, but not if I was in ZZZX's shoes.

"Not if I was in ZZZX's shoes," meaning I would claim it when deadline is approaching and people still looked at me to be lynched. Being silent only means I get lynched and there's 2 night phases.

[Kise]

Nexus died n1. He wouldn't have a result to share even if I was with him.

[Kise]

-_- I don't have a defense other than my word and it's going to be really shitty if people are too scared to lunch ZZZX afterward
Are you saying in his buddy or that someone on my team role copped him?

[Kise]

Sorry been drinking and phone autocorrects.

[Kise]

These came first--

Right now I'm at Shin+4b+ZZZX...and then between Dan and MAYBE there's a bus vote on Bella

Instead of waiting for 2 scum flips, I'd be more for getting ZZZX out asap. It clears the air regarding people who possibly protected him for this long. I don't feel I can ask people why they've neglected lynching him this long because nearly no one is looking his way. If it's not you 3, I have Dan on my list. Clearing jmj is safe from either perspective but I think it's a long shot for Dan to actually be cop and actually use his one shot on the GF. For this reason I would say if only one of them were scum, it would be Dan. Too weird/coincidental for it to be jmj plus I have had jmj as town since forever plus Nacho's town case.

They flip scum and I'd still want a piece of your booty. I've gotten town feels (and called them town) from everyone but Dan.

[Kise]

I ignored you for most of the game**

I don't remember you sussing me til this phase. So which came first, me sussing you or you sussing me?

[Kise]

Last time I see my name in your ISO

Oh yeah, PV is rather town, would not lynch. Aegor isn't necessarily scum. read pending

anyway some quick reads.
ZZZX - town
4burnr - town

this is in addition to those reads I've given previously aka

iec - town
CDB - town

shades is town from an early nexus interaction

triforce is town

Chevre is town

farside leans town

UT leans town

I also have an ever-so-slight town read on Kise, but it's again, slight. But I believe Aegor to be the superior wagon.

These were all based on like 11 pages worth of material that I actually read throughly. Still inclined to lynch off the Ooba wagon because it's part of my own mafia theory that there is almost guarenteed to be a scum off it, especially with the plentiful amounts of votes off in no-where-land. The only thing that resembled a CW was kise's wagon but that dissolved iirc.

[Kise]

Doubt Dan would be voting me if I kept ignoring him. I went to check and noticed I didn't become lynchable until today - last day phase I mentioned him as a possible scum. Today he says me, Bro or ZZZX

Relevant

[Kise]

Where do you begin to seriously suspect me?

[Kise]

bbl

[Kise]

I think CDB is town too. But. no one else from what I saw has claimed to be blocked. I have to consider that it might be smoke blown up our asses.

I was really hoping he would die too. That would give us ffery and PV conftown.

Got a lot of shit on my plate and I want to be sure I've properly read and understood things before saying anything to influence the wrong people.

[Kise]

Ebwop I'm going to sleep. Long night.

[Kise]

Of the four you listed, I have had Kise and ZZZX as likely scumbuddies.

Anyone else?

I'm trying to come up with real teams but they're kinda laughable. It seems most of us agree on ZZZX but I didn't want to just beat him up today.

Also before I forget @Dan if you're reading & others, I'm not strategically picking wagons I'll be on or off of. If my vote was on someone, I felt they were scum. I'm not the kind of guy to do vca but I will make an exception since you got me thinking.

[Kise]

Looking at non-consecutive lynchers, a team I could see from this includes PV, 4b, ZZZX & Bella. PV is taken off for being inno. Also don't take this teaming as something I set in stone.

@4b, what made you go from wanting to save ZZZX for last to now wanting him dead? Sorry if you've already covered this.

[Kise]

Assuming CDB and you are town, and me, who else outside of ZZZX and Bella are scum and why?

Bookitty starting to sound like a broken record. I would look there next, but it still depends on whether CDB is dead or alive and blocked or manages to receive a new result.

I think I may have been kinder to CTD than I should have. He tunneled me for 2-3 phases, and it was pretty aggravating trying to get him to acknowledge my defense and back off. Boo hasn't done much but I think her pairing me and ZZZX is innocent for the time being. I guess you could say it was strange she tried to push my lynch first as if that would determine whether she still felt ZZZX was scum afterward or not, and this was after her rolecop theory had been disproved. If I had to call her out on scum-motivated actions, it would be that and her lynching Dan yesterday - calling him town for refusing to vote ZZZX even to save himself, but lynching him just for the sake of a lynch. If she did more than bark up my tree, it might look normal.

pedit: can you give me more than gut on your read of Boo - analysis of her commentary and choice of actions?

[Kise]

To answer 4b's question from earlier:
I wasn't high on CDB at the time he was voting me. Beforehand, I had called him out a few times for what I took to be lurking, and so I thought he was trying to get me out of his hairs. His vote wasn't 100% unreasonable in my eyes, but when he & TF went ghost again, I turned to ooba. By that time he was the only person voting me who was active and should have tried to engage me, acknowledge my defense, something. I started townreading CDB a while after that phase because he is the only other person to push for flipped scum. We share paranoia, but mine is mostly about the roleblock situation since he wasn't targeted until night 5 or 6 (cba to check, bed time). Assuming he's town, scum would be stupid to let him live with another investigation, so it's really wait and see.

[Kise]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Bro as scum very recently^

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=60035

Bro's scum PT, which had daytalk until D2^

Since meta was brought up, I'd like to hear thoughts on whether his burst of activity there compared to his low activity here affects your reads.

[Kise]

Definitely the most sensible lynch to make today, I just wouldn't have jumped on him as quickly as everyone else. I would be fine voting after we get input from Bro & ff finishing looking over ZZZX.

[Kise]

I got the gas

and the coke

I don't sell mollieeeee no more

[Kise]

So there was a limited, but damn large list of potential roles at that point. hmm.

Do you want to just lynch ZZZX? No rush, just wondering if you think it's worth the research time when a lot of ppl have their mind set on the lynch anyway.

Kitty Im expecting a scum flip and will defend myself as best I can assuming I love overnight.

[Kise]

Which I will, but what I meant to say was live. :->

[Kise]

Can you save me for last

Im expecting a scum flip and will defend myself as best I can

assuming I love overnight.

Can you elaborate on the bolded, please?

M-my bed is empty, I promise!

[Kise]

@4b I didn't claim to see who would bother asking me. Looks like no one gives a shit. Sums up this game, sadly. I'm Zoey - Survivor (as in VT)

I don't mind the pairing I have with ZZZX since it's not forced but I'd like to pull up my quotes where I've wanted to lunch ZZZX the next day. Gimme 10 mins to find parking

[Kise]

Dude I've been bombarded with Boo saying I'm scum with you. I was the only person who tried to lynch you the next day BT for whatever reason, she isn't pullig that up.

I'm home, lemme log in to my comp

[Kise]

Oh I'm glad you said that. 4b wanted to lynch ZZZX the next day, I said to give it more time, and I also said it may be ridiculous to have ZZZX hammer Bro since that might still trigger 2 nights (the role PM for the beloved prince says it occurs on "death", not just lynch).

It wasn't until 2 days later that I said it'd be safer to lynch ZZZX in case he was town and we had 4 scum to deal with.

So I guess really it doesn't change anything, but 4b did mention lynching ZZZX the day after his claim. From there, I remember 4b saying to save ZZZX for last, and that was when I mentioned lynching ZZZX, so we had a role reversal.

Heh.