Pokémon Generation II uPick — Game Over

[Mac]

Checking in! Haven't actually read the thread yet as I need to get ready and meet my old man. Will catch up when I'm back, looking forward to the game!

[Mac]

I'm kinda hoping Wisdom is going to come in and town it up because we found each other as town in the last game I played. Fingers crossed.

Shouldn't this be 'I'm kind of hoping Wisdom rolled town blah blah blah'? Saying you hope he is going to town it up implies you already know he is town.

I think this is reaching a little bit

but the Everton fan is bleeding town. keep fighting the good fight my man.

[Mac]

BBT, do you have a read on Vilewhirl?

[Mac]

so you scum read people who find you town and scum read people who attack you?

[Mac]

I find two things really strange on this page.

1) your reach out to be 'coached' by Vilewhirl on scumhunting essentially despite having an uncertain read
2) vilewhirl agreeing to coach you despite thinking you are scum.

I actually think your reaching out was quite town~ish but the fact you don't/didn't have a read on vilewhirl worries me. not as much as vilewhirl coaching someone who they think is scum into scumhunting. Mr whirl, care to explain?

p-edit IM IN BABY!

[Mac]

I used the term 'coached' originally because I didn't feel it was coaching as such. but then I forgot the ' and whatever but the question remains, why are you helping someone you think is scum?

like I really cannot fathom your thought process there where you go "ok. let's see. BBT is not doing anything with his votes. he's surface scumhunting. let's vote him because he looks like scum. oh here's his reply! he wants tips and coaching on how to scumhunt...? okay. let's help out our scumread!"

[Mac]

p-edit IM IN BABY!

welcome in. your avatar grew up all of a sudden and now i want you out.

don't worry, I'll change it back. this avatar reminds me of a story and it makes me smile every time. said story > http://i.imgur.com/Cryh9U0.jpg

[Mac]

GUYS COME ON YOU KNOW SARCASM DOESN'T TRAVEL WELL

[Mac]

i haven't read the last bazillion pages but i think i might want to lynch mac for the awful avatar change

leave ron alone you big mean muffin.

@seiko - why is wisdom defending lufan a town move rather than scum going for cred?

[Mac]

uhh.

BBT, are you sure you're not scumreading newbness?

this is a directed appeal to BBT to get him to stop pushing lufan. while it's not completely impossible it's scum going for town cred, I think it makes slightly more sense coming from town. it's him seeing a push he thinks is likely wrong and actually making an attempt to shut it down before BBT goes further with it/it gets too far out of hand (rather than the scum alternative which is to sit there and call lufan town but not really do anything about it).

this is an excellent response, thank you. probably happy to say you're town at the moment.

[Mac]

sleepykrew is more than likely town, I wouldn't do that

[Mac]

sleepykrew is more than likely town, I wouldn't do that

I know why I townread SK, but why do you?

I have my reasons! as I'm sure you do too. I don't care to disclose mine yet, what about you?

[Mac]

oh man, that was my one too

[Mac]

I can't tell if you're serious or not.
But I'm serious.

No I was serious too.

[Mac]

this is an excellent response, thank you. probably happy to say you're town at the moment.

I feel like you backed off this way too easily, or otherwise called me town too easily here. is this one response really enough for a town read? if not, what other reasoning do you have behind this?

oh man, that was my one too

why was SK's first post good cause for a town read?

even if you were reading it as serious (I think it was fairly obvious it wasn't), it's one fucking post - I was at least considering the possibility that it was a fake claim if he was serious about it. and now that he clarified it was a joke, has it affected your read here?

Yeah? I mean I thought the explanation was good and explained your point of view perfectly and you also acknowledged mine. You went on to explain why you thought it came from town because of his actions, rather than what the scum line of thought was, which you also considered. It looked to me like it came from a town mindset rather than a scum mindset; the latter IMO would not have had as much of an indepth answer.

I haven't played with alot of you in a long time, but I'm pretty sure you know it's possible to get a small read off one post?

As for the second part, it wasn't claiming masons that is making me townread him as such, it's the do not claim in the very first line. His reasoning behind this has been outlined somewhere by himself, I forget where. I guess I think that the first thing on scum's mind is not "let's tell these folks not to claim" but maybe "how do I enter without drawing attention to myself" - he does this twice with the mason claim and the bolded do not claim.

[Mac]

though i can think of a pokemon who could have the restriction

Pika-pika?

this game is a clusterfuck for me

1 day in
19 fucking pages

I still haven't formed any reads.

Have you read these 19 pages? because reading 19 pages and still not having any reads is not a good start.

[Mac]

I mean, if anyone thinks that "I think randomized vote on the biggest wagon is bullshit", it can definitely happen. I was already aware that lufan was a newbie so I wanted to read him by how he forms his read until wisdom happened. But as pie said, I think how he reacted to the sudden rush and he honestly answered that he didn't wanted to answer wisdom's question while admitting that his questions were good adds some town points to that guy.

I know this is going back a bit I think but, IMO, you're comparing apples and oranges. You clearly use the forum dice to pick your vote there, whereas lufan simply claims it was randomized. The latter has no proof. I do agree slightly with your townread, I think his opening was very, very brave if he's scum.

[Mac]

Lacking

Do you think NM would alter his playstyle knowing that you've caught him as scum before?

[Mac]

Yeah? I mean I thought the explanation was good and explained your point of view perfectly and you also acknowledged mine. You went on to explain why you thought it came from town because of his actions, rather than what the scum line of thought was, which you also considered. It looked to me like it came from a town mindset rather than a scum mindset; the latter IMO would not have had as much of an indepth answer.

I haven't played with alot of you in a long time, but I'm pretty sure you know it's possible to get a small read off one post?

it's possible, I just thought my response was fairly standard so I wasn't sure what you were seeing in it.

As for the second part, it wasn't claiming masons that is making me townread him as such, it's the do not claim in the very first line. His reasoning behind this has been outlined somewhere by himself, I forget where. I guess I think that the first thing on scum's mind is not "let's tell these folks not to claim" but maybe "how do I enter without drawing attention to myself" - he does this twice with the mason claim and the bolded do not claim.

fair enough. I was reading it differently - making a suggestion like that is an easy way for scum to appear like they're being helpful and pro-town, without actually doing anything to benefit town. I could just as easily see SK-scum thinking up that kind of entrance pre-game and posting it (the idea there being he'd obviously want to draw attention to it), especially when it doesn't have anything to do with play and instead is entirely based around how flavor relates to role.

I don't think he's likely scum for it, I think it's just as likely coming from both alignments (if not something he'd be negligibly more likely to do as scum) and so null at best.

I haven't played with SK ever I don't think, I'll bear this in mind in the future however. It's not going to annihilate my town read on him though. Wrt the masons thing, it was clear to me it was a joke because I've played with groups of players like this, but whenever you do that in large with players who haven't played with you, it has the potential to open a can of worms. As was demonstrated here. Maybe this is in line with SK-scum, IDK, I'm calling it as I see it here.

[Mac]

Tere looks town, Mac looks town, Vile looks town

Are we sure there are scum in this game?

VOTE: Matt

Are you okay Wisdom?

[Mac]

I think our vote is still on BBT. I'll have to see if Gork is still scum-reading him but he can be town for now imo

UNVOTE:
VOTE: LucianRoy

This is a bad vote.

I also went back to see why you were voting me and it was pretty weak.

Well yea no shit it looks like a bad vote when you quote it without the explanation. Or are you just saying it's a bad vote because you're town reading Lucian? You can't just call every vote that doesn't line up with your reads a "bad vote".

Also, I usually read set-up spec as pretty scummy but his approach seems to come from a town mindset (genuinely trying to work out how the game might be set-up)

I wish people would stop throwing around this "genuine" bullshit. Scum doesn't fake everything they do. The point is not "scum doesn't actually want to know the setup when they setup spec". Its that they're not contributing to the actual game. Not scumhunting. "Genuine" is one of those buzzwords that sets me off. So fucking lazy.

this sounds pretty genuine.

amirite?

[Mac]

hm?

I don't think you've ever called me town in history. Just checking.

[Mac]

I mean, if anyone thinks that "I think randomized vote on the biggest wagon is bullshit", it can definitely happen. I was already aware that lufan was a newbie so I wanted to read him by how he forms his read until wisdom happened. But as pie said, I think how he reacted to the sudden rush and he honestly answered that he didn't wanted to answer wisdom's question while admitting that his questions were good adds some town points to that guy.

I know this is going back a bit I think but, IMO, you're comparing apples and oranges. You clearly use the forum dice to pick your vote there, whereas lufan simply claims it was randomized. The latter has no proof. I do agree slightly with your townread, I think his opening was very, very brave if he's scum.

Oh I didn't mean that it made him town. I'm just saying that "lol randomvote on major wagon can't happen" is wrong (I had a feeling that ppl are implying this somewhere.) I mean I even gave that same first post a tammytwitch myself.

Gotcha, I still think for being a noob that's really gutsy. Although I also agree with your recent reads list which says he has disappeared following the pressure being relented.

I'm having thoughts. If lufan is scum, the lurking is probably happening because someone is telling him not to be overexcited. If I think about it further, I'm looking at Wisdom since he defended lufan from BBT, essentially telling him to back off with the noob card before telling lufan to cool it. That's a lot of if's though, and I'm not scumreading Wisdom enough right now (not at all in fact) to be pondering that thought any longer than the time it took me to write this post.

Lacking

Do you think NM would alter his playstyle knowing that you've caught him as scum before?

Considering that I didn't "caught" him there, I don't know.
(What happened in that game is that after a huge clusterfuck that's called Day 2, we just lynched Not_Mafia because lolPoE and he wasn't being townread by anyone and yet it was so hard to flashwagon him. Before that, I had him as town for quite a bit.)

Ok, firstly I'm not sure why you have caught in speech marks? It looks condescending but I'm like a million percent sure (and hoping) this isn't the case. Secondly, ok, I was unaware it was PoE. Let me rephrase the question - do you think N_M would alter his scum playstyle knowing you have seen it first hand?

Vote: Not_Mafia

[Mac]

All private communication threads that exist for this game will be open during both Day and Night unless otherwise stated.

[Mac]

NM's vote is bad. Like horrible. Maybe not the recipient of the vote but given that he's been in and around the thread and still not produced much of anything, his vote on Jeanne is pot calling kettle black, if not worse since Jeanne has technically not been here.

[Mac]

Why? It also seems pretty irrelevant since Matt is replacing out.

[Mac]

Why is him replacing out relevant?

Well if he wants more information on what Matt mean, he can't get it.

[Mac]

Why is him replacing out relevant?

Well if he wants more information on what Matt mean, he can't get it.

Why shouldn't he vote him?

I haven't said he shouldn't.

[Mac]

Why? It also seems pretty irrelevant since Matt is replacing out.

That's exactly why it's relevant. I like to look for irony when I find scum. He stated he was keeping up with the game, and even followed along with SK's little masonry claim. Something he deemed to be town, and then slightly doubted.

Why is he replacing out now? What's provoked him to leave?

I'm curious to see what MS has to offer.

He doesn't say he's keeping up with the game, quite the opposite in fact as he says he's catching up. But I'm not sure what you're getting at - Matt is scum because he replaced out? Because that's really not a reason for scumreading someone IMO since a replaceout can be for anything.

[Mac]

Lucian you're really weirding me out here.

[Mac]

Lucian you're really weirding me out here.

Is it because Matt said he was going to do something, and then just replaced out?

No it's because you expect the replacement to somehow have answers as to why Matt replaced out, as if they are the same person. It doesn't make any sense.

this more or less hits the nail on the head. someone also said something about it looking like you were setting up for a scumread on the slot & whoever placed in. you also pushed a misquote by matt as scumirony or whatever it was; the whole thing looked weak & felt like you were trying to force a read on something that is not and never will be alignment indicative.

I also kind of want Metal to address Matt's actions as well.

wtf. How could the replacement possibly know why Matt replaced out?

This I don't get either. I doubt they're related in any way, personally.

Are you planning on doing any original thinking? Since the pressure cooled off, all I see is you following others opinions and failing to really provide anything out of the ordinary. Do you have any reads that you think may stand out from the crowd?

Damn. Some epic quote fail there. I posted it anyway bc I'm on my tablet and I'm pretty sure mod is kind enough to fix it for me.

Anyway, I don't really find Lucian that weird. Everything he says is logical if you put yourself in lucian's head and think "replacement is alignment indicative."

I'll say that if mattp/MS is scum Lucian is almost certainly town.

I don't see how he can possibly think replacing out is alignment indicative in the first place though. It's also not logical to assume that Metal Sonic, or any replacement for that matter, will be able to shed light on why they're in the game in the first place.

do you think i should bus her bbt? im so lost. im so bad at being scum. help me.

reading up on lucian and other things atm.

two hundred pages of fun are better than 30 pages of none.
p-edit: yes. i wish i could replace her with someone who is good at being my scum buddy.

... I hope you realize you just publicly admitted you're scum...

Hmmm.

I'll hop on the wagon, since it seems 2 ppl just admitted scum, one mentioning being scum with her. I'll trust them.

UNVOTE: N_M
VOTE: Jeanne

Your train of thought doesn't make sense here at all.

> Person A admits they are scum with B
> Person B has not admitted they are scum
> Vote person B on the basis that A said they were scum with them

Surely you should be voting Vilewhirl since they admitted scum, and could be trying to take a townie down with them, no? Or did you just fancy a place on the wagon?

someone fabricating in a game of deception? you're probably right. nobody would ever do that.
jeanne wagon is k but i feel like we're gonna be in the same spot if she flips town.

These echo my thoughts.

[Mac]

Unvote

Vote: Lucian

I think alot of your most recent questions have been aimed more in the "look like I'm doing something" pile rather than actually scumhunting. Questions that probe the surface and no more. There's a couple of standouts in my mind; the one where you asked Wisdom about his read on me and rather than converse with Wisdom, you took it at face value rather than perhaps discussing what your read was and how you came to it. Further to that, I think your hop on the Jeanne wagon was a bit wank in all truth. You asked about an NM/Seiko connection due to their votes and similar read on Jeanne (which looked to me you were considering the possibility of a scumteam there) and then dropped it fairly quickly to jump on. Another question to be added to the "look like I'm doing something" pile.

I've already address the whole Matt thing and how it looked like you were shaping up to scumread the replacement too.

[Mac]

Unvote

Vote: Lucian

I think alot of your most recent questions have been aimed more in the "look like I'm doing something" pile rather than actually scumhunting. Questions that probe the surface and no more. There's a couple of standouts in my mind; the one where you asked Wisdom about his read on me and rather than converse with Wisdom, you took it at face value rather than perhaps discussing what your read was and how you came to it. Further to that, I think your hop on the Jeanne wagon was a bit wank in all truth. You asked about an NM/Seiko connection due to their votes and similar read on Jeanne (which looked to me you were considering the possibility of a scumteam there) and then dropped it fairly quickly to jump on. Another question to be added to the "look like I'm doing something" pile.

I've already address the whole Matt thing and how it looked like you were shaping up to scumread the replacement too.

Enh, establishing connections today to prove useful in the coming days is what I was going for. Plus, this thread was hella dead. I wanted to see something, anything brought to the table, so, I asked Wisdom about his read on you. Me, having no meta on either of you, couldn't really justify his read. It was meta and gut. I could only take it at face value. I never said I agreed with his read, but I did say it "sounds fair." Truthfully, I asked him for his read because I was having trouble reading you.

Okay, so why haven't you engaged with me in order to find my alignment? As far as I can recall, I've had only one question from you. I feel like you're not making an effort to sort me out at all.

Why was my entry to Jeanne's wagon any better or worse than anyone else's? We're all voting her for basically the same reason. I thought we established that.

Purely because of the suspicion you voiced behind these connections you are implying between Seiko and Not_Mafia - seemed like a scumread. Following people you suspect felt off to me; that's what didn't feel particularly good about your entry.

The Seiko + Nm thing didn't go very far. All I got was a "town" reply from Seiko for my question on his reads. After realizing, I couldn't really find any connections between the two of them, I deemed the wagon ok, so I joined. Blue blood wanted me to join as well. I read him town. His switch from the NM wagon was slightly unexpected, but in my mind, since he was going after people who were doing nothing, Jeanne would be the quintessential vote.

If you wanted more than "town,"

why did you not ask???

this for me is one of the main reasons I'm scumreading you, you are not probing any further than the surface.

The Matt thing was my fault. I probably shouldn't have brought it up in the first place.

I can see where you're coming from in your vote, but some of your points don't hold a ton of weight.

Okay. I think they do.

[Mac]

Mareeping

VOTE: SKrew

WHY ARE YOU NOT FUCKING DOING ANYTHING?

(this question applies also to McMenno and Flames too)

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Jeanne was a counterwagon to NM. I'm fairly confident in a Not_Mafia scumflip at this point.

[Mac]

lufan holy shit are you just going to follow the crowd with EVERYTHING?

[Mac]

Mareeping

VOTE: SKrew

WHY ARE YOU NOT FUCKING DOING ANYTHING?

(this question applies also to McMenno and Flames too)

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Jeanne was a counterwagon to NM. I'm fairly confident in a Not_Mafia scumflip at this point.

So who were the scum that pushed it?

I think there's scum in DFC or Seiko (leaning the latter) but not both. Probably another one too, but I'm not sure - I think it could be in lufan, Lucian or MS.

[Mac]

2.01 (page 41)

2.02 (page 44)

Yet still you haven't done anything other than accuse a newbie for newbing

there's a limit to how much of a pass you can give someone for being a newb and I think you're pushing it.

[Mac]

lufan holy shit are you just going to follow the crowd with EVERYTHING?

I hope not. I really don't want to, but I'm thinking the same things..

have you had an original thought in this game?

[Mac]

Mareeping

VOTE: SKrew

WHY ARE YOU NOT FUCKING DOING ANYTHING?

(this question applies also to McMenno and Flames too)

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Jeanne was a counterwagon to NM. I'm fairly confident in a Not_Mafia scumflip at this point.

So who were the scum that pushed it?

I think there's scum in DFC or Seiko (leaning the latter) but not both. Probably another one too, but I'm not sure - I think it could be in lufan, Lucian or MS.

Why do you think scum pushed a cw instead of townies pushing someone who was being scummy?

Because the Jeanne wagon came a whole four pages after her first post and only after N_M was picking up some steam.

p-edit I'm getting to you BBT. None of my "animated" posts have anything to do with SK; not sure why you're making a link that isn't there? Are you scumreading me because I'm not happy with the lack of anything happening from certain slots (which has already seen us lynch town) ?

[Mac]

Yet still you haven't done anything other than accuse a newbie for newbing

there's a limit to how much of a pass you can give someone for being a newb and I think you're pushing it.

So you agree with him that lufan's reaction was scummy then?

Yes.

[Mac]

Because it seems like you're attempting to create a bandwagon to counter SK.

I'm equally as unhappy as you about slots not doing anything.

So let's lynch SK.

There are worse things than SK in this game, and I'm voting who I've thought was scum for most of the game. Who has also done less than SK funnily enough.

[Mac]

But I dunno if it was a counterwagon or just townies switching to a scummier town. I mean, N_M was at least posting, while Jeanne seemed like she was avoiding the game on purpose.

He wasn't posting content though. But I can see your point.

Why? Is it not plausible he just didn't realize Vile's sarcasm?

Possibly, but when you combine it with the constant sheeping, it's not a good look.

[Mac]

what originally prompted you to vote SK sonic?

[Mac]

I don't trust you as far as I can through you right now Metal.

VOTE: DFC

[Mac]

I hate all the dram votes

Can each of you tell me why the fuck dram-scum would fake a guilty like this?

P-Edit: I don't know why ppl are thinking he faked it for no reason when this is exactly how dram scum is getting out of it

[Mac]

struggle = you'll lose your moves?

More specifically future sight.
I've more, but you don't need to know of it.

here McMenno. fucking 6 posts or so above yours, when are you going to play?

I'm not sure if I think dram is scum.

[Mac]

I forgot there was another page.

[Mac]

stop fucking voting wisdom, I want people to catch up

[Mac]

here.

Not read a single word of D4 yet, tonight I shall

[Mac]

hey

I'm catching up

[Mac]

VOTE: mcmenno

Die scum

lol

Eh sure

VOTE: McMenno

double lol

Why the fuck did BBT die

PS I don't remember ever being more pissed off at a game. Though, I've got a terrible memory.
Usually when a game sucks, at least part of the blame belongs to the mods. Not the case here.

Anyway, have a nice day.

It could be that he scum thought he had alot of power, but I'm going to lay my money on him being pretty well townread. Also, I agree with the second part of this posts. This game has too much apathetic town.

I think all the biters are town

We could be masons without a pt

this is giving me all kinds of scum vibes at this point

It was BBT's move, and I used it on him, like I had been with bite. I got no result since he died.

I'm intrigued by this. I think it's lies.

Vote: lufan

Part of my moveset is limited watcher,

I watched BBT last night and only two people visited him.

That's me and the killer. I think lufan is lying here. Unless there are more biters involved, or the TM failed for some unknown reason. Care to explain?

tere's reads list is okay, but how can you sort someone by claim when it's moves we are working with? there are no roles to claim. there are pokemon with moves, 'bite' could just as easily be a scum pokemon as it is town.

sometimes. he doesn't normally play like this, though

I agree. it feels like he's trying to hard to emulate his town trolling. he did something shit on d2 which I picked up on but it completely slipped my mind until now, will have to try and find it

I'm caught up. Also, I got a job today. Hooray!!!!

[Mac]

limited watcher. same as dram's, I only get the number of pokemon who visited who I watched. including me, which makes the other person the killer. If lufan claims to have visited BBT last night then that means he is the second person

[Mac]

it's on dram's flip, read it

[Mac]

unless there's a ninja type move. I'm not clued up enough on pokemon to know this.

hmmmm

[Mac]

but like there's no reason for lufan to claim visiting bbt unless he was scared of a proper watcher. and with a limited watcher already shown, it's likely there wouldn't be one.

hmmm

SK, what's your reason?

[Mac]

So Mac, you're 100% certain lufan killed BBT last night? There's no if, ands, or buts?

not anymore. I don't even think I'm 50% certain now, not with SK softclaiming either. there's too many possibilities and not enough information from my role to be certain :/

I do think MS is scum though. more so than mcmenno

VOTE: Metal Sonic

[Mac]

the reason im voting ms btw is because there was a point where he was 'trolling' and then apparently caught SK as scum because that what he does. he then built a case on SK which was full of quotes and comments from himself. apparently this only took 8 minutes but the content looks like it should take alot longer which means he's doing his bullshit trolling to try and emulate his town game and push through a case that he'd already made

[Mac]

I've never played a game with MS, but I can almost believe that.

Maybe he's fast on the computer???
I don't know. I haven't really payed attention to that slot. I'd dismissed him as a target for the vig... if we had one.

i dont think it's humanly possible to build the case he did in 8 minutes.

when you catch someone like MS does when town, you catch then build. here, I think he built then caught, trying to copy his town game

[Mac]

what's wrong with any of those?

[Mac]

I have the same ability as dramonic and pieguy I think from memory, does that make me scum? I also have three moves, am I twice as likely to be scum?

pokemon share moves, just because he has the same move, does not equal scum

[Mac]

mass FV being what, lufan?

[Mac]

is this you trying to set me up after a mcmenno scum flip?

[Mac]

is this you trying to set me up after a mcmenno scum flip?

if you know that mcmenno is flipping scum, why arent you voting him


???

I don't know that. but I'm more certain you are

[Mac]

scum for scumreading you? come on metal, you can do better. also, that theory about the watchers makes absolutely zero fucking sense? like none whatsoever.

and a minor finishing point, I'm a he and not a she

[Mac]

slowking

[Mac]

are you in the water pokemon neighbourhood, mac?

I was until it ended

[Mac]

lol pineco

why would you pick that

pineco was my third pick i think. purely because it was a pine cone and reminded me of metapod.

a simpler pokemon

[Mac]

Just say you're sheeping me Muffin. I think Metal is scum.

[Mac]

What would be the difference if you were scum and used Bite on McMenno?

Why would scum ROLEBLOCK mcmenno?

because menno was heavily suspected, and that's what town would do? then scum would probably try and prove this was a town motivated action...


...which is exactly what you're doing!

[Mac]

On to business.

VOTE: muffin

I will not in one million years believe that someone was townreading Menno after Menno's play. That was classic WKing.

Also why the fuck are you still making people claim?

NOPE.

[Mac]

Muffin is probably the towniest fucking player in the game. what are you doing?

[Mac]

also I need to check something with the mods involving my role guys, I might claim after pending what the mod says

[Mac]

because he's clearly trying to figure out the game, d4 was the day where he finally invested in the game properly imo and it was plain to see. he's the voice this town needed days 1-3.

it's funny you should go after the towniest player (IMO) on the basis of whiteknighting when a) there's a no kill and confirmed roleblock on you and b) muffin is actually really good at picking out the stuff that matters from a very shit ISO.

[Mac]

probably because town have been fucking apathetic and shit and scum have probably been allowed to coast through until now?

i suspect this wasn't the answer you were going for. enlighten me

[Mac]

not mafia.

why did you end the game prematurely when, iirc, muffin still had stuff he wanted answered?

[Mac]

Because scum are playing fucking well and people go townreading them for "he is doing things" like you are doing now.

Newsflash, activity and effort are not alignment indicative.

oh believe I'm fucking well aware that activity and effort are not alignment indicative or else this game would have about six town and the rest would be scum.

I find it absolutely fucking RIDICULOUS that my do not lynch pool today (and probably game-wise) consists of {Muffin, SleepyKrew} and the rest are fucking hopelessly wandering about in the shadows or flailing about like Metal Sonic. seriously, I can't remember a single fucking post from Tere or Flames aside from the latter. Tere has seriously flirted on the boundaries of doing absolutely nothing for the entire game which makes me think scum because I'd be absolutely ashamed as town to do that. I vaguely remember a reads list from her but she had people being read based on claim which didn't make sense because lolmovesnotclaims. I also remember saying something about that but surprisingly, nothing was said by herself.

what is the fucking scum motivation behind investing yourself in a game and then pissing it all away in townreading McMenno? that makes no sense from a Muffinscum POV, it only makes sense if it was metal sonic doing it because he can waltz through the game like a fairy flooding the thread to hide from the fact that he's probably scum.

not mafia isn't even being LOOKED AT for hammering McMenno despite muffin having questions he needed answered. SIMILARLY, no one seems to be looking at Wisdom despite the fact there is a no kill and a confirmed roleblock on him.

this game, man. this game.

[Mac]

not mafia.

why did you end the game prematurely when, iirc, muffin still had stuff he wanted answered?

Because I was really bored

so because you WERE FUCKING BORED, you decided to stifle town discussion and play it right into scum hands?

well done you.

[Mac]

what is the fucking scum motivation behind investing yourself in a game and then pissing it all away in townreading McMenno? that makes no sense from a Muffinscum POV

Why can't scumMuffin WK McMenno for extra towncredit after he has started appearing town?

because scumMuffin was investing into the game and scumMuffin has no reason to WK McMenno so hard if he knows the man will flip town. IT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE?????

I mean it's like muffin was becoming the voice the town lacked (as I've already said) which is an excellent place to be if he's scum. why would he throw it all away on mcmenno?

[Mac]

not mafia.

why did you end the game prematurely when, iirc, muffin still had stuff he wanted answered?

Because I was really bored

so because you WERE FUCKING BORED, you decided to stifle town discussion and play it right into scum hands?

well done you.

This indignation looks fake. I actually don't remember the end of the day yesterday well but I remember waking up to pages of spam of wanting day to end.

oh good. Not Mafia thinks my indignation looks fake. I think this may be the first time I've actually read an opinion of yours in this game!

if you're bored, get a hobby, ride a bike or watch some porn. don't hand the game to scum on a plate

[Mac]

I mean it's like muffin was becoming the voice the town lacked (as I've already said) which is an excellent place to be if he's scum. why would he throw it all away on mcmenno?

How exactly did he "throw it all away"?

are you even listening to your own argument? he threw it all away because you stormed into the thread and claimed OMG NO WAY SOMEONE COULD TOWNREAD MCMENNO

[Mac]

not mafia isn't even being LOOKED AT for hammering McMenno despite muffin having questions he needed answered.

And? Hammers are alignment indicative? I don't remember you scumreading McMenno for his.

I think you know fine well it's the stifling town discussion that is scummy. Stop playing dumb.

[Mac]

I don't think I've ever played with you Not Mafia, how would you know that?

DFC was hammered on DAY TWO with a claimed guilty on them. Ultimately, there's not much discussion to be had because at the end of the day, it was a 'guilty.'

now when there's 4 days left and it's absolutely clear that another town lynch sends the game into mylo (assuming scum had managed to kill last night) AND when another player is probing in another direction, ending the day with a "lolbored" is scummy as fuck.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Mac]

Im struggling to see how town-Wisdom doesn't understand where I'm coming from here.

[Mac]

are you even listening to your own argument? he threw it all away because you stormed into the thread and claimed OMG NO WAY SOMEONE COULD TOWNREAD MCMENNO

I don't understand what this means.

Are you saying that he wouldn't do that because he would anticipate people would find it scummy?

Because if so, clearly that isn't the case. I am the only one who found it scummy.

well there's at least one other person scum reading muffin based on your post I assume (mainly because there is no other reason too) and even then that's not a risk worth taking as scum

[Mac]

because McMenno's hammer did not potentially put us into mylo.

that.is.not.difficult.to.grasp

you seem to be ignoring the hammering claimed guilty part but w/e, it obviously doesn't fit your argument. lolhammering a claimed guilty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hammering claimed whatever the fuck menno was whilst discussion was going on

hey! Tere gets it!!!!

[Mac]

I dont think flames was being universally townread?

[Mac]

Hey Mac, where did your MS scumread go today? You didn't even comment on his claim, did you?

It's still here. I also thought I mentioned it but evidently I didn't - safe to say, I don't believe it.

[Mac]

I don't remember why I said that to dram. I probably typed the wrong name

interesting.

[Mac]

So you're scumreading N_M more than MS? Or why aren't you pushing MS today?

pedit: @MS

I think there is the very slightest of chance MS really is a cop. I think there is no chance NM is town

[Mac]

NM is quite obviously town

Talk to me more about MS?

he's not town.

what did MS claim again?

[Mac]

ms you said you didn't cop n1, what did you do instead?

[Mac]

I am infact town

it's weird how, as town, you forgot who you targetted

[Mac]

because it could be a fake claim and you can't keep track of it?

[Mac]

why kill shits like vilewhirl and bbt over #1 scumhunter muffina?


if i were scum u would die immediately

haha.

the classic argument

[Mac]

I'll probably claim after everyone checks in. maybe tomorrow

[Mac]

"I can't be scum because X hasn't happened and X always happens when I'm scum!!!!! plz believe me!!!!"

[Mac]

everything. everything is wrong with that argument

[Mac]

actually, one last thing for wisdom before i just ignore him for the rest of the day:

what do you think the reason for the lack of kill last night is?

I don't think, I know what the reason was, and I'm not telling you

If you know, why wouldn't you reveal?

[Mac]

Because I want to see how many people will sheep muffin using the roleblock as an excuse

Well since you just nullified this with that statement, care to share now?

[Mac]

Wtf is going on here

Tere im not sure how your claim is going to be antitown but if its a negative utility then you should have claimed it long ago, and it's suspect as fuck that you havent in that case

[Mac]

well that doesnt make sense tere.

I'll claim in my own time when everyone has checked in

[Mac]

also you think scum targetted you last night? ha ha ha.

Why on earth would that happen

[Mac]

what tm did you get?

[Mac]

VOTE: Wisdom

Sleepykrews roleblock would have blocked your bulletproof

[Mac]

Mehmeh okay I got confused.

Because i dont need to bow to scum demands

[Mac]

And im waiting for everyone to check in

[Mac]

Ok fine I'm claiming.

My moves are:

Ancientpower - grants plurality lynches, same as Seiko's

Recover - 1-shot Bulletproof. I am informed when it activates.

Safeguard - 1-shot self-rolestopper. When I activate this all night actions used on me fail. I asked the mod and this includes nightkills.

What stopped the kill yesterday night is my Recover. The mod sent me a PM at the end of the night telling me I have 0 remaining shots of Recover, meaning it was used up.

I obviously have not used Safeguard yet as I was waiting for Recover to run out first.

Is this word for word accurate?

[Mac]

That is definitely weird. I'll explain and claim once I'm home

[Mac]

ok so I'm a little confused right now.

my claims are water gun (useless) and psychic which might as well be useless since it's really inconclusive.

my third move is swagger, a amnesiac two shot tm giver. two times in the game during the day, I pick a move from a selection of tms and it is delivered to someone randomly the following night (so d1 pick arrives night two) so long as both the recipient and myself stay alive until then. during day one, I picked hidden power because I thought move cop was a pretty good role to have if it landed in capable hands. unfortunately, lufans hands proved not so capable because he used on bbt (whyyyy.) the reason thought he was scum was the psychic result showing me plus one othr visiting bbt on night three - I thought lufan was using the guise of hidden power knowing it came from town to hide the fact he killed bbt, but SK's result proved this wasn't the case.

during day three, I chose sweet scent as the final move I'd send away because it's pretty good and a bit of a win-win wherever it lands. I won't reveal what it does, whoever has it can choose whether or not to do that. I *think* someone definitely has it, because at the start of each day the mod sends me my bag of tms and sweet scent isn't there. I thought this was a pretty useless feature but when tere claimed attract, that tm had disappeared from my bag too and I think scum either a) stole it knowing what the tms were or b) were randomly given one from my bag without my knowledge? there is no suggestion is my role pm of this.

the second question is did they give it out, or use it themselves and does this therefore make tere scum? I don't think so. lufan didn't appear to be claiming the move had went through; if tere is scum, she had no reason to state she had used attracted and was possibly an unrequited lover until lufan said otherwise since she wasn't notified if it failed. also, stealing from me and claiming it when we were mass claiming today is absolute suicide IMO

for what it's worth, I can use my other moves during nights where the tm is being given out. the mod message today in 2270 is regarding my use of psychic last night. I originally chose to watch xayzeck (to clarify if lufan was going to check out xay or not) but changed it to muffin, whom I expected to die. the mod accepted this change but accidentally sent me results for xay's visitors which I've had to accept. lufan did visit xay.

My lynchpool today is {N_M, Wisdom, M_S} probably in that order but they're interchangeable really. I think all three have a good chance of flipping scum.

[Mac]

You're in my lynchpool because I don't believe that you believe muffin is scum because he correctly read mcmenno. I think the attack straight out of the gates on muffin was to cover up the block on you and lack of kill < I feel town-Wisdom would be more likely to take a step back and evaluate the game.

[Mac]

I have some reasons to think you're town but meeeeeh, it depends on a couple of variables

[Mac]

can you explain how it looks like a towny mindset

[Mac]

you're logic surrounding sleepykrew is totally dumb ms because youve now left the possible avenue open for sleepykrew town to be left alive so we mislynch him later

[Mac]

you're?????

come on mac

you're better than that

[Mac]

I don't know about terescum muffin. i don't see tere claiming attract, especially if they've stolen it from me, if she was scum

[Mac]

um

if the target is aware of it, they necessarily have to claim it

the alternative is someone going "oh wtf, i die if tere dies" and tere going "nope, wasn't me"?

i mean, an argument could be made that she'd choose a better target as scum, i suppose?

fair enough, but I read back the conversation between her and lufan and it didn't look like lufan was exclusively going to claim it unless tere did. as scum, she'd surely be targetting a more townier player in the hope of saving herself from a lynch?

it's difficult to speculate on what happened wrt attract coming from my bag though

what do you think the scum team is, mac?

N_M, Wisdom, MS and {Lucian/Xayzeck/Tere}

Lucian and Xayzeck have really done fuck all today. My top pick for fourth scum based on setup spec is xayzeck because I think town having two roleblockers (sk + two biters) and scum having one and a half (so one reflexive I think xay's role is? and ms who can interfere with town bites)

I'm fairly confident on the first three I listed being scum; not so much on the fourth slot however. Tere wouldn't have been there if her posting hadn't descended into a shambles before she went v/la

[Mac]

Dude. I don't believe in scumtells but wking what to everyone else looks like obvscum is one of the only things that I believe in, because it has never failed me. Furthermore, the gamestate just makes tons of sense if muffin is scum.

How does my attack on muffin cover up the block? Why didn't I attack MS or someone else? Why didn't I attack skrew, if I wanted to put doubt on the block?

Also please don't talk about "town-Wisdom". There exists no such thing.

@lufan Vote MS. There is no fucking way you can think I am scum.

You have seen my towngame, you should be fucking able to see this is it

. Fuck vanillas and strawberries.

how interesting

[Mac]

My town game here has been literal crap. I've been too distracted, and the scum are probably play fairly well.

how fucking bad is this, by the way.

[Mac]

doesn't look out of context to me. lets see that game.

also, i'm sick of repeating myself about the differences between mcmenno/mafia hammers. I know I won that argument because you didn't respond to my final points, so leave it out yeah?

[Mac]

why didn't you claim recover right out of the gate today, wisdom?

[Mac]

umm no, you are still wrong about that. The two hammers are the exact same thing, they both ended the day when we didn't need the day to end. Not_Mafia is town.

Can you answer to me what you meant by 2570 and why you're not voting MS if that's the case?

no I'm not wrong, why are you shutting your eyes and covering your ears when it comes to this?

on day two we had:

- a town that, in hindsight, it's fair to say was in complete disarray
- a claimed guilty on town
- the claimed cop was also town.
- did I mention it was day two?

on day four we had:

- one more mislynch before going into mylo
- a more vocal, more thinking town
- muffin getting his ass in gear and probing everyone
- ONE MORE FUCKING MISLYNCH AND PEOPLE WERE STILL QUESTIONING

in the wonderful thing that is hindsight, mcmenno did us a favour. what did not_mafia do?

[Mac]

you do realise the more you call yourself obvtown, the more I want to lynch you?

[Mac]

that's a pretty bold maneuver to pull. and doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering today would have been MYLO

[Mac]

maybe they hate hydras

quick! of those alive, who hates hydras????

[Mac]

Why do scum have both a half roleblocker and a full one?

Or are you saying he's lying about being a roleblocker?

I speculated earlier this could be 1 proper rb for scum and 1 half rb to mess with the two town biters we probably have.

if xay is town, that makes it just about 2v2 for roleblockers

[Mac]

ugh

suddenly, I'm at square one again with oversoul's new theory.

but what if oversoul is scum and just filling our thread with shit about SK?

[Mac]

well I had a safeguard tm which matches up with exactly what you are saying and it feels like more of a town role than scum. so you are telling the truth about that

but there's something in the back of my head that says you could still be scum with it. so I'm stuck there.

i think that was what I meant by variables

[Mac]

it's completely random who it goes too and I didn't fancy chancing that falling into scum hands

[Mac]

no. telling the truth about your role doesn't exclusively mean you are town yet

[Mac]

OH

the other variable was how scum got attract. but I think I'm writing that off as being a variable to be honest

[Mac]

What does that have to do with me?

And I don't get it. Can you explain what makes me a better lynch than MS?

well if scum had some kind of knowledge to what is in my bag, you'd be able to fakeclaim it.

but I don't see scum knowing and then picking attract since that was the 2nd weakest move in there

no, I can't actually. but I need to think a little more

[Mac]

Mac considering you know Safeguard is real what do you think is more likely, Wisdom was shot or Wisdom made the kill for scum in full knowledge Skrew was a full roleblocker?

I don't know what to think right now.

who do you think the scum team is right now?

[Mac]

how do you seriously think I'm scum

unless I'm completing fabricating the tm lufan has been given and confirmed

[Mac]

VOTE: MS

[Mac]

do you think anyone really believes your shit anymore

[Mac]

shes back tomorrow?

yes that is what I sent

[Mac]

because it doesn't matter whose hands it falls into, it's a negative effect on scum. this was in case there was some kind of watcher or tracker role somewhere that is better than mine but evidently not now that all the claims are in play.

[Mac]

There was nothing better than this to send?

not really no

[Mac]

Mac

, what are the other TMs that you could have sent out other than Sweet Scent?

hidden power (lufan got this) - move cop - this was before I'd really realised this could go to anyone rather than just town, hence why I flipped out a little when lufan claimed to visit BBT

safeguard - already mentioned, didn't send it as it's a really powerful role in scum hands

attract - didn't send it but somehow tere has it and it's gone from my bag. Not sure what went on but I didn't choose that because it felt like a negative utility for town

roar - limited self protect where you have to target a player and if that player uses a move that may kill you (say factional or vig) you will die. felt a bit pointless sending this since it's hard enough to predict when you're going to die, let alone who is doing it.

rest - a delayed self protect and a self roleblocker. use it one night and then protected for the next but can't use any moves. again, I felt like this would be a bit of a waste for two consecutive nights without an action

sunny day - fire neighbourhood is created and becomes active as long as whoever had this move was alive. with 6 water pokemon in a hood, I figured there wouldn't be alot of fire pokemon. I don't actually think we have any claimed, do we?

[Mac]

so is MS town? I don't even know what to think

[Mac]

sunny day - fire neighbourhood is created and becomes active as long as whoever had this move was alive. with 6 water pokemon in a hood, I figured there wouldn't be alot of fire pokemon. I don't actually think we have any claimed, do we?

Knowing that scum could potentially get the TM, why would you choose to send out the Ninja Disabler instead of this one?

Because whoever gets it, learns it. Giving ninja disabler was win-win with added gloating if scum learned it. The fire neighborhood was potentially useless if nobody was a fire pokemon.

Flames - why didnt you claim sweet scent?

[Mac]

claim, tere. Dont make me ask again

[Mac]

Corsola has to be the mod's favorite pokemon.

Thoughts on recent developements?

Or keep making irrelevant comments. Your choice

[Mac]

who do you think the scum are?

[Mac]

i dont think you can action and kill in the same night accoding to post 3

[Mac]

game is stalling, and I don't think I want to lynch sleepykrew

[Mac]

I think there's scum in the biters. flames is meh, not answering the questions on the previous page is terrible but I can't really see why scum would do that? lufan's jump to flames looks bad, he agreed with flames that there was nothing to say but votes him anyway...

[Mac]

Vote: Boon

[Mac]

lufan, I think you're lying

[Mac]

I did and got no result. Lufan is either bullshitting for some reason or is scum

[Mac]

Yeah it is. But I'm likr 99% lufan is scum here; waiting for the town to approve the lynch before going through with it though

[Mac]

Actually nah. Lufan is most certainly fake claiming here

vote: Lufan

this will be our first scum lynch.

Also when he flips scum we should probably look at oversoul because he was really quick to jump the gun with a vote. I'd expect town to be a bit more cautious IMO

[Mac]

also yeah lufan getting abilities back sounds like bullshit

wait, what does this mean?

also, tere is probably scum number three once lufan goes. that vote was terribad

lufan/tere/oversoul/???

although im less sure on oversoul

[Mac]

me too

thanks for the game guys!! i'm afraid to say the majority of the town sucked. days 1-3 were some of the easiest i've ever had as scum. props to muffin for actually making effort towards the end. had it come earlier, or had town not quicklynched two days in a row, we may have been in deeper shit than we were.

[Mac]

can we pre-in already?

[Mac]

would hardly say the d wagon was scum driven. first 6 votes were town