The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER

[tautology]

I'm gonna go with...

Vote: Battle Mage

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unvote
vote: K-Scope

An item claim seems to be in the town's interest. At the very least, you should try to justify why you won't participate in the mass claim that's already begun.

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What, we're not doing a popcorn claim anymore? I have no problem claiming my inventory, but even the nature of the claim is unclear to me. What are we claiming here?

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I'll claim now, I don't have any items. I'm a bit confused as to whether we're claiming shops or not, so after we get a consensus I'll be happy to tell more or keep it to myself, as the case may be.

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But not what those items are? It seems like the difference between this and a shop claim isn't much. At first it was just an inventory claim.

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I don't really like the looks of the Fritzler - Ibby collusion. I don't really feel like we got a good explanation there. It seems random at best, but very scummy otherwise. Can someone explain why giving an item to someone night one isn't suspicious?

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Good response. I'll answer your questions and ask some more of my own.

Do you think it is suspicious for a player to keep track of where their items go by giving them to someone specific?

I think it's suspicious precisely because there's no way for you to keep track of it once it leaves your hands. It's not as if you will have a reliable way to know the effects of your decision.

Do you think it is optimal pro-town play to just drop items for anyone (town or scum) to pick up?

The answer depends on the game balance of the item goals, but assuming item goals help scum and town equally once one is satisfied, I do think it's better to drop items.

Dropped items are more likely to be picked up by the person who needs it. Since there are (hopefully) more town players than scum players, more items will be in the hands of the townies who need them than the scum.

And I'd also like you to explain what you see as scummy or random in the explanation I've linked you to, please.

Doing something that helps out a friend in a Mafia game without knowing if their scum or town is what I was referring to as random. Your justification seems reasonable, but I don't think it's a particularly sound strategy, so it could be fake.

Giving items night one is a smart move for scum, but a random move for town, in my opinion.

Oh, and I forgot. While I'm on the topic of you. You claimed to have no items. Did you drop or give away any items?

I dropped one item.

Now, for my questions:

You said you didn't forsee an item claim, how would it have changed your action if you did see it coming?

How do you think Fritzler would have been able to incriminate or exonerate himself with the item? What signs would you look for?

What do you think of my statement that giving an item at night helps scum more than town?

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unvote
vote: Kinetic

I think we have the most information to gain by this lynch right now.

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I think I've been reasonable with my claim, considering that it was an inventory claim that snowballed. I think there's little to no difference between claiming what item we've received in the night and a full on shop claim, and when I brought that up people said, "we don't want a shop claim." I think the expanding claim hurts the town more because I think townies are more likely to let slip something that could help the scum.

theopor_COD: Maybe you could explain how people throwing items around in the first night isn't scummy? I think I made a good case for my suspicions which you ignored in your player analysis. I've since backed off because of the explanation given and the resulting discussion, but I don't think I was wrong in the inquiry.

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What? That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that with the ambiguous claim it's really easy for scum to slip in and ask for information they'll find useful. The town came to a reasonable consensus about an item inventory claim, but by the end of it everyone was claiming different things and no longer following any order.

I'm fine with not waiting for lurkers to get off their asses, but if we say a claim is for one thing, I think we should stick to it.

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Asking for more information is one thing, but misrepresenting the claim is another. I didn't have a problem explaining that I dropped an item when questioned about my empty inventory claim, as someone not receiving any items in the night would look pretty suspicious.

What I didn't like were the people saying the claim should be all encompassing after it began, which to me is the same as a shop claim.

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I think everyone accepted the deadline being tonight, so at least I'd prefer for the game to move on.

As far as my personal scum radar, I'm not liking Roland, but I'm still satisfied with my vote on Kinetic. Nothing he's said recently has convinced me of his innocence.

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Whoops, I totally meant Kilroy there, not Roland. I got it backwards which was the lurker and which was the liar while reskimming the thread.

Theo, I feel like I haven't had anything to contribute for many pages, but I've been trying to keep up with the game. Yes, I am hoping for the deadline to hit because the game has been spinning its wheels for a while and just getting the claim to finish was an ordeal. How many more replacements will we need before next Sunday?

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Andy: I agree, it's really weird that you said you don't understand the wagon behind Kilroy and then voted him anyways, with no further explanation. What was your train of thought there?

BM: Maybe you could elaborate what you mean by Kinetic and Mariyta "buddying up"? Maybe this is just Kinetic's style, but between this and his presenting of a false dilemma there may be something there.

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Way to post the exact same thing an hour after yagami. Anything original to add?

The point of the post was that Theo challenged BM, and BM replied with some pretty reasonable justifications for his finger-pointing, so I was trying to follow up with that. Either BM makes good points and helps the town, is full of crap and turns out to be scum or just off-base.

I haven't been shy about presenting my opinion when I have something original to add. I just feel like we've been chasing our tails for a long time. I still feel like the Kilroy thing was very strange and the way Kinetic has been coming out to defend several people has also been suspicious.

As far as the Andy thing, it makes sense now and seems like he's on the same page as everyone who doesn't really like Kilroy.

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Kinetic, even though you didn't vote me that's still pretty OMGUS. Tautscum, really? That's a new one. You've overreacted from a vote a couple times this game often enough that it seems like a pattern.

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I was talking about the Andy thing, not the BM thing. You put practically the same sentence as the guy before you.

And I was saying that while, yes, that sentence wasn't anything more than "I agree" the post wasn't devoid of meaning.

About the Kinetic thing: Upon a reread it wasn't as bad as I thought. Most of it was the way he was dismissive about Ibby giving her item away. After discussion it turned out to not be a big deal, but "that's the way she is" isn't an adequate justification for behavior which would benefit scum more than town.

I'm still getting a manipulative vibe from Kinetic though, like he's trying to stay in the good favor of enough players to avoid scrutiny. I don't really like the way he's making personal attacks on BM either, but maybe that's just a stylistic issue.

Post 574 still bugs me as well as the way Kinetic reacted to BM voting him way back in post 133. It's small, but it seems like a reaction from someone who's worried about even the slightest negative attention.

Speaking of Battle Mage, it is interesting to note how closely he's been copying MoS. Both pushed for the item claim, but more importantly both are hoarding items. Did they both get the same idea? Sounds like BM was more successful than MoS in actually acquiring items, but we don't have an inventory claim yet, do we?

I think there are a few things we should keep in mind regarding the items:

First, what items have hit the ground but are still unaccounted for in the claim?

Assuming everyone has a shop, how many items have never been seen?

On the first page there's a list of four destroyed drugs in the "Back Alley." What's the significance of that?

And how about:

Mafia seen in nearby stores giving each other objects.

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That makes sense. I guess "Painkillers" was the most innocent of the options then for his shop. That's pretty much what the "Night 1" post implies, I must have missed it the first time around.

Also, Pizza is on the destroyed list. What happened there?

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The whole point of those questions is finding scum. I think finding someone who lied about the claim gives us a strong lead. Also, if we don't have enough items accounted for that means that someone's lying about what they're holding.

Also, most of these questions are things I could probably figure out myself. The whole point of posing them to the whole town is to get more people thinking about these things. What's anti-town about that?

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I'm not really asking anyone to claim, it's just a matter of speculation. If the town can figure out what the scum are doing we can work to stop them.

I think you're reaching if you think that somehow asking about discrepancies is an open invitation for the pro-town power roles to claim away. If power roles did claim just because I asked about the Pizza it'd be their mistake, not mine for asking.

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It seems to me like the standard knee-jerk counter-vote when someone votes without explaining it.



As far as the BM wagon is concerned, I've been giving him a lot of slack because most of the attacks on him have been personal in nature. Given the newspaper report about the mafia hoarding items however, we might be on the right track.

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Wow, that's quite a wagon. Cool.

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So after the earthquake now I'm at 6 out of 9 to lynch, with most people voting me not saying anything. Could this be any clearer of a scumwagon?

For those of you who aren't scum but still on my wagon, what exactly are you looking for from me? I was dodgy in the item claim to keep it from being free info for scum, but now that I'm at lynch-3 I can give a full claim if that's what the town wants.

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Maryita: I think it would benefit the town if you'd identify which articles you wrote, especially if you wrote either of the articles during the day we were given two articles of unknown origin.

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Why exactly am I still getting flak for the day one inventory claim? I was pro-claim and when it came to my turn disclosed my inventory. When asked, I said that that I indeed pull an item out of a shop and dropped it.

I'm glad we're starting to get information out there, but there's not much in the way of suspicious behavior. I don't have any reason to distrust the claims that have been given, either.

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Well, I guess I might as well lay it all out. I'm Joey, a regular shop owner. I run Game Stop, and have been dropping the video game I've pulled out of my store every night on the ground as I've got nothing better to do with them. My victory condition is to eradicate all evil. The items I need are Coca-Cola, Pan, Pot and Corn, but I don't know what happens when I get them.

I can also confirm that I was spammed, but I didn't have any night actions anyways, due to the dice.

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Yeah, my point is the only thing I've been able to do is get the item from my shop. Since tonight was a duplicate, I couldn't.

Right now, the best scenario I can come up with is that YagamiLight passed Tulip to JDodge who was vigged by Tar. This is assuming that everything given is true. Kinetic, if you are really confident about Yagami, could you share your reasoning and give an alternative?

vote:YagamiLight

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Correct. I haven't seen any items for my item goal, and have been dropping the one item I got from my shop each night (save last one) so I haven't been doing much.

I'd appreciate someone else getting on Yagami if I seem like a bad lynch.