Katsuki's Madness Prequel II - Game Over

[iraonavp]

/confirm

[iraonavp]

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[iraonavp]

I Muffinz speedballing

he sounds maniacal

What?

[iraonavp]

Me too, kanye I was so mad that I missed the pre in.
And KMD- you are off the list! I promise! THough.. if you had been scum in Fates game you would be back on

BUT down to biz:

VOTE: IRONAVP

When is DGB ever the right answer D1?
And besides, I have been stalking her ever since my return, and we keep drawing opposite teams. It has to change some time!

I voted DrippingGoofball because she made a very definitive statement, I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion to draw from the replacing out at all.

I'm not sure what that question even means...

[iraonavp]

Me too, kanye I was so mad that I missed the pre in.
And KMD- you are off the list! I promise! THough.. if you had been scum in Fates game you would be back on

BUT down to biz:

VOTE: IRONAVP

When is DGB ever the right answer D1?
And besides, I have been stalking her ever since my return, and we keep drawing opposite teams. It has to change some time!

You're town!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

woooo hoooooooooooo

How could you know that from this post alone? It doesn't seem like indicative either way.

[iraonavp]

/confirm!

Hi kanye! Hi spyrex! hi kmd!
Hi everyone!
This is exciting.

Hi. Don't kill me lol

Hmm. Very similar reaction to when I brought that up in that game. (For everyone else, camn was town there)

VOTE: Kmd4930

I think this exchange is suspicious. I don't think he really cared about the reaction to his post, and he's just bringing it up to make himself town-aligned. It looks really plastic to me.

[iraonavp]

I know someone will find it suspicious, so I will say now that I unvoted DrippingGoofball because the reason I voted her initially is no longer compelling, and there is a better reason to vote Kmd4930.

[iraonavp]

VOTE: iraonavp

Why are you voting me? I'm town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Ira, didn't you just play with DGB? Or were you already dead when she replaced in and didn't keep following? Also, you're kind of right. That was never meant to be a reaction "test" or anything. It just felt so similar I had to go back and check and I realized it's almost exactly the same.

That's actually why I unvoted, because I remembered that she just tunneled a lurker the whole time, and I couldn't understand it and thought she was scum-aligned for it.

I'm right that you're scum-aligned? Saying that I'm partially right is basically just conceding, which makes me think more that you're scum-aligned.

Did you have the intention in mind of comparing camn's response to the other game you played with him when you made the first post, 47?

[iraonavp]

spiff/iraonavp scum

You have to explain, I can't tell your alignment like this.

[iraonavp]

spyrex wanna be my lover

You gotta get with my friends.

Tell me is iron legit or is this just scum flubber

How is asking other people going to help you work out my alignment better than just talking to me yourself?

[iraonavp]

What?

[iraonavp]

Not everyone can embrace the classics.

So what with the core theme being vote count shenanigans what does that mean to you

Obviously I'm not going to just say my role...

It probably means that Katsuki tried to design a game around him being lazy.

[iraonavp]

Omg it was a random vote, but Iron actually is squirming like a middle school girl!

Do you actually think I'm scum-aligned? I'm not squirming...

[iraonavp]

spiffys town btw

Why? He did almost nothing...

[iraonavp]

Okay, maybe the excitement is fake and over-the-top.

VOTE: DrippingGoofball

[iraonavp]

What's bnest?

VOTE: Iraon

Why are you voting DGB?

I just said, because the excitement looks over-the-top, and kanyeknowsbest is trying to form a wagon...

Why are you voting me?

[iraonavp]

Nobody so far has explained even in the slightest why they voted me...

[iraonavp]

maybe it's because of your avatar. it doesn't look very town

I only changed it recently, and Fate said it was town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Also it's obvious you are scum.

No, I'm town-aligned!

[iraonavp]

Then you are either wrong, or scum-aligned, because I am definitely town-aligned. I can prove this to you so long as you keep an open mind.

[iraonavp]

My mind is open. Prove away.

Also...where is Fate? I need to talk to you. Real talk.

I'm not going to claim my role, I feel like that would just make me look worse and it actually can be used properly if I don't claim it.

You can tell that I am not "obviously scum" like you say, because this usually happens in over 50% of the games that I played, I get wagoned early and sometimes lynched. It did happen when I was scum-aligned too, but there is strong evidence to suggest that I am naturally suspicious and you would think I am scum-aligned regardless of my alignment.

Yes, I am just mislynch bait and you are on the wrong road...

I don't have any strong reads at this point, but I think DrippingGoofball and Kmd4390 are slightly suspicious.

[iraonavp]

Appeal to Mediocrity.
This is a new one.

I don't like this post because you are being snarky and overconfident, when you saw me get mislynched before. I'm also town-aligned here and you should be able to see that if you are really as competent as you imply.

[iraonavp]

I mean he could be scum, but my impression of him is that he'd post the same inane shit as town or scum so

That is most likely correct.
I only have experience with him as town and he was this bad.

The last time dramonic played with me and I was town-aligned, he didn't try to lynch me under the pretense of policy. He defended me from being lynched and only voted me when he had no other choice, even though he made fun of me for being bad. I think he is just using it as an excuse for the overconfident and poorly thought out read that he pushed on me before (in posts like 109, where he implied that he was sure I was scum-aligned), and he's probably scum-aligned here.

Essentially I think he wouldn't try to lynch me on policy if he was town-aligned, he probably thinks that this is WIFOM and it's an easy excuse, but he didn't do that last time.

VOTE: dramonic

[iraonavp]

Ira, didn't you just play with DGB? Or were you already dead when she replaced in and didn't keep following? Also, you're kind of right. That was never meant to be a reaction "test" or anything. It just felt so similar I had to go back and check and I realized it's almost exactly the same.

That's actually why I unvoted, because I remembered that she just tunneled a lurker the whole time, and I couldn't understand it and thought she was scum-aligned for it.

I'm right that you're scum-aligned? Saying that I'm partially right is basically just conceding, which makes me think more that you're scum-aligned.

Did you have the intention in mind of comparing camn's response to the other game you played with him when you made the first post, 47?

Did you actually read my post? You're right that it wasn't a reaction test. Like I said already, no, I didn't intend to compare. I noticed similarities after camn posted.

Yes, I read your post...

Okay, I believe you. That only bothered me because I thought you were trying to set up camn very early on for a bad reason and she just didn't get caught out.

I think camn and zMuffinMan are slightly town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

I mean he could be scum, but my impression of him is that he'd post the same inane shit as town or scum so

That is most likely correct.
I only have experience with him as town and he was this bad.

Very different kind of bad imo.

You should know that I will be very different if I just start playing a game during RVS, or I replace into a game and there is actual stuff that already happened. Now I'm not really sure what to do except for trying to lynch dramonic, but before I was just posting to try and keep involved with the thread. I don't like RVS...

[iraonavp]

Dram it could be that im scum, but i thought iraonavp was very transparently town in the other game. Was doing things that whule misguided, seemed to be really trying/kind of doing things

This is a very different iraoan

I know he was obvtown in the other game, but I'm not seeing the nuance so far.

I mean mayhe he just has less to work on but hes definitely different


Unsure of if that makes him scum, though

This interaction feels really off to me

from both parties

Same, kind of. It is worse to me dramonic's post 149, which is asking him to explain a read on someone he is voting.

It feels like dramonic has, after being questioned about his read on me, switched it in stages from a scum-aligned read to entirely policy, and he is only asking that question to hiplop to make his stance clear to other people!

Hiplop's involvement in the conversation is not by choice, dramonic was the one who started it.

[iraonavp]

Dram it could be that im scum, but i thought iraonavp was very transparently town in the other game. Was doing things that whule misguided, seemed to be really trying/kind of doing things

This is a very different iraoan

I know he was obvtown in the other game, but I'm not seeing the nuance so far.

I mean mayhe he just has less to work on but hes definitely different


Unsure of if that makes him scum, though

This interaction feels really off to me

from both parties

Same, kind of. It is worse to me dramonic's post 149, which is asking him to explain a read on someone he is voting.

It feels like dramonic has, after being questioned about his read on me, switched it in stages from a scum-aligned read to entirely policy, and he is only asking that question to hiplop to make his stance clear to other people!

Hiplop's involvement in the conversation is not by choice, dramonic was the one who started it.

Tell me more about where I gave a scumread on you

Okay, dramonic is scum-aligned for sure now.

This is a scum-aligned post because dramonic is just giving a vague and snarky answer rather than explicitly saying that he was reading me as town-aligned and trying to policy lynch me.

Look at this post:

Appeal to Mediocrity.
This is a new one.

This implies that dramonic is saying that I'm scum-aligned, but technically dramonic never explicitly said that, and he thinks that if he makes this evasive and sarcastic comments he can just discredit this when I bring it up.

It's like saying that he has seen many scum-aligned excuses to defend themselves, and this is something new. Furthermore, it also doesn't make sense from the perspective of him trying to policy lynch me, because he is claiming to think here that I am mediocre, and how is it possible to appeal to mediocrity in order to not get policy lynched for being mediocre?

It is obvious here that dramonic was originally trying to accuse me of being scum-aligned and then he backed out of it later while lying about it vaguely.

I have seen this happen before other games, too.

[iraonavp]

hey dram can you tell me whos scum yet? besides iran, tho correct me if im wrong abt you sayin hes scum. TY

totes missed this post, sorry.
I'm not saying Irao is scum. I don't know what he looks like as scum, but his town game is a special level of garbo so it's win-win
Besides that, I'm sus of camn/spring/farside.

Why are you still voting me instead of any of those players then?

[iraonavp]

Okay... What about voting dramonic? He is probably scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

What? I was town-aligned in the other game you played with me.

You are just coming up with nonsense because it would make you look bad if you unvoted me.

[iraonavp]

Oh you

Ok, sell me. Make me buy your timeshare

I think I already explained as best I can in 209, there is not much to go off.

Basically, he said that I was scum-aligned and backtracked to a policy vote because he never explicitly said that he thought I was scum-aligned. He is still voting me entirely as policy when he has other scum-aligned reads, as if to help answer any questions anyone might have about his dubious stance.

Then, he tries to shrug off anything anyone says with and being sarcastic.

[iraonavp]

Oh you

Ok, sell me. Make me buy your timeshare

You didn't think that last time. You tried to get people to stop lynching me last time, even thought you thought I was "100% scum utility" then. I don't think you really believe what you are saying.

[iraonavp]

So?

Also, I know if you were town-aligned you wouldn't even be arguing with me right now.

[iraonavp]

Okay, there are six votes... Only two more!

[iraonavp]

Okay, we should lynch dramonic and then if he flips town-aligned we lynch zMuffinMan... I find that post really scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

yeah just went over dram's iso again

don't really think he's scum but i'm not particularly confident about his read. the one-dimensional push on iron still doesn't look like something scum thinks is a good idea and little stuff like 236 and 251 feel townish

Why does it make any more sense for him to do that as town-aligned, especially when he has historically tried to defend me instead of doing this as town-aligned?

[iraonavp]

I'm about to swing this entire wagon back over to Iroan. Stringing together lynches now?

Seriously, it's like...every single thing I would do as newbie scum, he is doing.
Maybe dram IS town and was hanging onto an iron lynch because Iron is actually scum.

What? I'm not newbie, or scum-aligned...

dramonic is (currently) saying that I am town-aligned, and trying to policy lynch me.

[iraonavp]

And why you you keep saying "-aligned" ????

That's just how I talk... Nobody has had a problem with it before.

[iraonavp]

dramonic is (currently) saying that I am town-aligned, and trying to policy lynch me

that's not what he's saying, though

Yes it is!

[iraonavp]

Why does it make any more sense for him to do that as town-aligned, especially when he has historically tried to defend me instead of doing this as town-aligned?

it's not like that has never happened (where someone decides "fuck it i'm going to policy lynch the shit out of X if i ever play with them again")

but let's reverse this: why does he try to push a policy lynch on you this hard instead of doing the same thing as last game?

because the only answers i can think of if he's scum are that he *thinks* it's something he would do as town or that this is just some really shitty plan designed only to work on players who think like i do

Because he got questioned on his stance and that was the only reason he could think of to justify a vote on me considering how easily I am mislynched usually... He forgot how obviously inconsistent this was with his last game.

You are supposing that everything dramonic did was planned, in order to call him town-aligned, and I find this scum-aligned. The only reason I am not voting you now is because I still think dramonic is scum-aligned. But you need to explain here.

[iraonavp]

LLD, you have to give a reason or you're scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

No, I'm town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

The only reason I am not voting you

if i had boots on, id be shaking in them about now

please dont try to get me lynched, i don't know if i'll be able to defend myself if someone as terrifying as you comes after me

i can tell you're going to be a high priority night kill in this game

This is really unnecessary and hurtful that you read into my posts, because I clearly didn't mean it like that...

[iraonavp]

You are supposing that everything dramonic did was planned

no i'm assuming scum aren't just fucking idiots that go "derp derp i'm going to do x because why the fuck not?" with no thought about how it makes them look to others

because even REALLY bad scum have a pretty basic idea of what things are likely to make them look like town and what things are likely to make them look like scum

so unless he's so completely unaware of his own attitude towards others that he didn't realise it was a "contradictory" stance to take, the more likely explanation is that even if he IS scum, he's doing it entirely because he would do this (or something similar to this) as town. i do believe that regardless of his alignment, he would try to policy lynch you - the only question in my mind is whether he'd be this stubborn about it as town or whether he's just pretending to be this stubborn about it

That is like saying "why would a scum-aligned player scumslip"...

It doesn't make sense.

[iraonavp]

He forgot how obviously inconsistent this was with his last game

...

I don't think this is really a stretch, he obviously changed something about how he plays if he's town-aligned so how to anticipate that.

[iraonavp]

LLD, you have to give a reason or you're scum-aligned...

Make me. Cases are scummy, if you don't like it find someone who cares.

Okay, you're scum-aligned then.

[iraonavp]

Oh you

Ok, sell me. Make me buy your timeshare

Like who the fuck puts someone who made this fucking post on their scum list right now

like for real

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=65890
^That's the only time I've seen Ira. He was town. Didn't stand out to me early in the game, but I feel like I remember him getting wagoned even before scum faked a guilty on him. Problem here is I see what the people voting him see. He's weirdly overreactive and stretching like crazy which I don't remember from that game. He's said a couple of things that make me think town though and I don't think we've had enough of a Day 1 to develop reads though so unless he becomes over the top obvscum, I won't be placing him at L-1 soon.

kmd are you scum?

No.

Some people seem like they've never played with DGB. She's pretty much herself so far.

Or these posts

All of those posts seem null-aligned to me...

I think you are just trying to be contrary.

[iraonavp]

Well, it could have that motivation or they are faking it. I do think SpyreX is town-aligned but not for the post you said.

I asked you for reasoning because I thought your kanyeknowsbest vote was just hot air, and if you had that strong a read there would be at least something to back it up...

[iraonavp]

Okay, I changed my mind and I think you are town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

As an aside i still think it's worth keeping in the back of the skull this isn't gonna just simply play out as lazy lols no vote counts. There's more to the mechanic than that

You already said that...

Anyway dramonic is probably just lurking because he hopes the wagon will die down, so I'm not moving my vote away.

[iraonavp]

Okay, it looks like dramonic is still going to remain on this comfortable policy lynch wagon, even when he supposedly has scum-aligned reads.

[iraonavp]

Yes, so we should lynch him for lying probably...

[iraonavp]

I think SPYREX' word salad posting and overly deliberate softclaiming is slightly scum-aligned, but I would still rather vote dramonic...

[iraonavp]

Okay.

VOTE: SPYREX

[iraonavp]

No, I don't want kanyeknowsbest to die!

[iraonavp]

Yes, but I want to be safe because it sounds like LLD is going to do something stupid.

[iraonavp]

Hiplop, can you claim? I am not going to vote because there is no vote count...

[iraonavp]

LLD says that the only reason was "GUT >=D!".

I think that LLD just lynched kanyeknowsbest for no reason at all, didn't even think he was scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Also, there is no vote count and that's kind of the point of the game!

[iraonavp]

I decided that I think that SPYREX is slightly town-aligned and I would rather vote dramonic instead...

[iraonavp]

I also think that zMuffinMan is slightly scum-aligned.

VOTE: dramonic

[iraonavp]

Do you have examples of previous games he has moderated to prove that?

[iraonavp]

insane cop is pre much a guarantee

I think this is extreme hyperbole then.

Do you still think Spiffeh is scum-aligned?

[iraonavp]

although i think it's pretty likely hiplop is scum anyway, i want dgb to both flavour claim and state in unambiguous writing that she is 100% clear on what her sanity is before a lynch goes through today

anyway, what i didn't get a chance to talk about yesterday because

someone

(not naming names) decided to execute someone else, is that i think spyrex is either scum or at least fully aware of a number of voting shenanigans going on in this game. the first thing i wanted to do if i lived past the night was ask cupcake for a votecount (which spring seems to have done in my place) because i do NOT think it was any coincidence that spyrex wrote this:

mod: give us a real votecount please

Let's see if there's any shenanigans now

... and magically cupcake, out of the kindness of his own heart, decided it was time to post a votecount in a game where it was explicitly stated that there won't be any. the very wording of that last sentence makes it seem like he both knows a votecount is actually coming and that he knows about certain oddities that were going to appear in the votecount. and lo and behold, we have a ??? on spyrex and it seems like kmd is voteless

nope. no fucking way does spyrex not have more information about this shit than he's letting on and if he DOES have more information about this, i cannot think of a single reason why he would withhold that information as town. like, yeah, he's not-so-subtly hinted at it a couple times, but that's not what town does when they know certain things about a game's mechanic that are better off made public

i think his play itself has been rather dull and boring. i talked about this in 295 and pretty much nothing about his play has changed since then. he hasn't answered my question in 397 yet and i don't actually know what he thinks of anyone at the moment. his play looks like pretty standard trying-to-stay-under-the-radar stuff and i don't remember anything he's written that's made me think, "yeah, that's a town thought process"

add to all this the fact that in his first post today he acted oblivious about it and tried to spin it in his favour makes me all the more sure of this, which is why i wanna see whether cupcake actually posts a votecount on request and if he doesn't then i think spyrex should die immediately after hiplop.

if cupcake does post votecounts on request, then whatever, it's not the silver bullet i want it to be but i still don't like his play and while i don't have any sort of proof of it, i do think spyrex knows more than he's letting on

Okay, this makes no sense.

It seemed really obvious to me that SPYREX was crumbing role which can affect votes on day 1.

And even if you didn't take that interpretation, how does showing understanding knowledge of the setup make him scum-aligned? The scum-aligned players are not just going to say all their knowledge in the thread obviously.

I am confused if SPYREX actually requested a votecount, but regardless of that I don't understand how you could reach the conclusion that he is scum-aligned for it.

[iraonavp]

Because why would he randomly claim his role?

That is the simplest and most immediately clear reason...

[iraonavp]

fyi I fully expect there to be vote count / vote related shenanigans this game

What could this mean other than he has a role which can manipulate votes?

I don't get where you're coming from and I think it's because you are scum-aligned trying to link hiplop to people, and then when hiplop flips town-aligned because it is a bastard game, you will look like you didn't know he was town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

mod: give us a real votecount please

Let's see if there's any shenanigans now

This is probably why there was a votecount in the post where kanyeknowsbest was slaughtered...

[iraonavp]

why

haven't

you even once addressed the claim cop today?

Okay, well I'm not sure if hiplop is scum-aligned or not.

I am confused about SPYREX then, but I still see only town-aligned motivation.

[iraonavp]

did you follow pyp at all after you replaced out, iraon?

No, I didn't really look at it except when the game was over.

[iraonavp]

iroan is probably scum because hes even considering town me

dram is scum

Well, you don't seem very scum-aligned to me...

I think if hiplop is scum-aligned, then dramonic is town-aligned. Otherwise, I think dramonic is scum-aligned.

zMuffinMan is probably scum-aligned either way.

[iraonavp]

I think if hiplop is scum-aligned, then dramonic is town-aligned. Otherwise, I think dramonic is scum-aligned.

how does that work?

Because of how hiplop was voting dramonic earlier on day 1 I don't think they are scum-aligned together.

[iraonavp]

Okay, there is no other way for the day to end and I am not sure about this...

VOTE: hiplop

[iraonavp]

There are currently 5/7 votes on hiplop.

I'm sorry if you are town-aligned, hiplop...

[iraonavp]

VOTE: dramonic

[iraonavp]

Because the cop can be insane...

[iraonavp]

Yes.

[iraonavp]

What?

[iraonavp]

Okay, good point...

VOTE: hiplop

[iraonavp]

VOTE: dramonic

[iraonavp]

hey spiffeh, is iraon scum or town?

Why did you ask Spiffeh specifically?

[iraonavp]

Vote: DGB

Why are you voting DGB?

[iraonavp]

Spiffeh should probably stop pretending he's scumreading me.
It got old on D1.

Pondering if DGB is insane or scum.

This is a scum.

[iraonavp]

Just think there are universes where iron got shot d1 over kkb.
Those universes also probably have replicatiors and teleporters

What?

[iraonavp]

There were two "???" before, it probably only appears if Fate votes someone.

dramonic is probably scum-aligned and they have an ability to make themselves harder to lynch, that's why there is only "(2)" by his name.

The other "???" is just scum-aligned opportunistic vote to immediately stop the day if DGB gets lynched, to save dramonic.

There is an insane cop because the only useful abilities are vote related...

[iraonavp]

someone on the spiffeh wagon is also voteless

dearest cupcake, please confirm that votecount is correct

I think you missed 663.

[iraonavp]

interesting

either i don't exist in the votecount or i'm ???

Okay, I worked it out. Basically there is a role to obscure your vote as "???", and it's purely cosmetic. It was used on SPYREX night one, and you on night two.

[iraonavp]

There is an insane cop because the only useful abilities are vote related...

what does this mean?

It means that it looks like a normal game if you get a cop rolecard, look there are actually non-useless voting abilities... Nope, it's just insane cop.

[iraonavp]

Spiffeh should probably stop pretending he's scumreading me.
It got old on D1.

Anyway, we should lynch dramonic because this is extremely fake and scum-aligned, he just came up with this out of nowhere and it's trying to sound snarky...

He is still not even doing anything and he's afraid to vote me or even Spiffeh, because that will make him look worse.

[iraonavp]

I don't think so, it happened starting night 1. He is just effectively voteless because he never wants to vote...

I think that dramonic's "(2)" is the result of an action performed on dramonic, not someone is voteless.

[iraonavp]

There were two "???" before, it probably only appears if Fate votes someone.

dramonic is probably scum-aligned and they have an ability to make themselves harder to lynch, that's why there is only "(2)" by his name.

The other "???" is just scum-aligned opportunistic vote to immediately stop the day if DGB gets lynched, to save dramonic.

There is an insane cop because the only useful abilities are vote related...

That paint job tho.

What?

[iraonavp]

Okay, so dramonic is not even pushing anyone at this point, you see.

iroan is probably scum because hes even considering town me

dram is scum

So your theory is that I decided to policy lynch my buddy right out of the gate?
right

Basically this is saying that he knows I'm town-aligned...

This is very scum-aligned because he objects to the notion of me being his partner more than he does the suggestion of him being scum-aligned, because that's the part that is actually wrong!

[iraonavp]

I'm one shot, lol.

I wonder if maybe Spring is scum who is scared of me randomly executing someone on her team.

Do you actually think that? It seems like a very unnatural conclusion to me, springlullaby is more likely just town-aligned who is afraid of you randomly executing someone on her team (like you already did...).

[iraonavp]

@spiffeh

dram could be scum

but

there's nothing about dgb's play that's town

And there's anything about dramonic's play that's town-aligned? I don't think DGB is scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

iraonavp is town, DGB is town, Muffin is probably town

Fate and SpyreX I'm not entirely confident in but they haven't really done anything that stands out to me

Muffin I will continue to tunnel dram to the death so please just let
me have him today

This feels so god damn much like PYP Spiffeh to me. Thoughts, Muffin?

I kind of agreed until 799 and 804, then I disagree, and I think you should stop spamming to lynch for no reason...

Spiffeh, do you have any part of your read on LLD independent of your read on dramonic?

I still definitely agree about dramonic being scum-aligned, though...

[iraonavp]

Don't /in for games if your reaction to the game not going the way you want it is "I'll replace out"
Seriously, that's really fucking bullshit.

I know, Kmd4390, this is basically frustration at Spiffeh using out of game influence to show himself as town-aligned...

Note that dramonic is voting Spiffeh, I actually didn't know at first because of how he was treating him...

[iraonavp]

I think it means nothing and LLD is just one-shot executioner even if she is scum-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Okay, probably she just forgot...

I think she will do that upon return to just make sure.

[iraonavp]

Day 2:
I reeeeeallllly don't like Spiff's immediate reaction to DGB's guilty result being "assuming it's real...". Like why question it right away? It feels like he knew hiplop was town. He also didn't vote hiplop in that stretch of posts.

I'm okay with that. The guilty didn't really feel right to me either, and hiplop did turn out to be town-aligned...

If you look at the posts around there he is making reads with it being likely that hiplop is scum-aligned, it's clear he has a more thought-out stance than that. For example, he puts both dramonic and hiplop at scum-aligned and then says that they don't really make sense as a team together, and he puts springlullaby at slightly scum-aligned after saying that she makes sense as a partner to hiplop. I don't think this is alignment indicative unless you mean purely in the sense of not immediately considering hiplop confirmed as scum-aligned which is quite diminished.

[iraonavp]

What are your reads beside DGB scum again?

the pool of players i'm looking at is { iraon, kmd, dram, spiffeh }

most of my dislike of iraon stems from his play around the hiplop situation yesterday. e.g.

Hiplop, can you claim? I am not going to vote because there is no vote count...

this was his first reaction to the dgb-hiplop situation, which (1) was not a good reason to not vote him, and (2) fails to actually address what was going on in the game in any signficant way

i don't think it's impossible for town to think something might be amiss. i don't even think it's impossible for town to explore other options. but that's not what iraon did... he stayed as far away from the hiplop situation as he could

when he eventually did address the hiplop thing, it was just a "welp, has to happen" (post 558) followed by sheeping farside onto dram then sheeping farside back on to hiplop again in 592

i don't really think this is a town thought progression. and outside of this, i really can't remember what he's done aside from push dram and express dislike for the dgb wagon more recently

kmd/dram i'm really only looking at because i don't remember either of them doing anything town

and spiffeh i'm mostly looking at as a potential partner to dgb/iraon. it's why i asked him about iraon at the start of the day and why i've asked him about dgb as well. i don't think he likes bussing a lot. his play itself i don't actually have much issue with (tbh i think it's more likely town than scum), i just can't point to anything definitively town in his iso and his interactions with other people i think could be scum (apart from dram) aren't great. that said, if dram is scum, then spiffeh (and iraon) probably aren't scum with him so whatever

i have town reads to varying degrees on the rest of the game

No, it didn't feel right. I thought hiplop was not very suspicious and I was asking him questions to try and get an idea, the conclusion I reached was inconclusive, but I had to vote him anyway...

There's no way that we won't lynch the cop guilty, that was the only choice and would've proceeded without me.

[iraonavp]

So Ira didn't understand my point. Not surprised.

Vote Spiff

What?

Maybe you just phrased it wrong... I think I understand.

[iraonavp]

Fate and SPYREX, what does chuckle mean in the way you use it?

[iraonavp]

Honestly I'd rather lynch DGB D4. Gives an extra day for a result in case she's insane and once she's lynched if she flips cop we can work around her results.

urgh maybe he's town after all

Can you explain why? You turned suddenly, this seems like the only reason and it's not really a reason...

[iraonavp]

Okay, dramonic is scum-aligned because DGB is probably town-aligned...

[iraonavp]

I don't think springlullaby is saying that, just that LLD should claim to make sure.

[iraonavp]

At least your read is consistent, even if you refresh your reason with each post I make

[iraonavp]

my spyrex theory relied a bit on him being the one that caused the "???" and him knowing that was going to be the case in the votecount (which is apparently wrong), as well as the fact that i found it odd that he was being coy about what he knew and i couldn't see a reason he'd keep it hidden as town (not so big a deal but in conjunction with the "???" thing i thought i was onto something)

I still struggle to see you believing this.

And even if you did believe it, him saying that he didn't cause "???" shouldn't be worth anything to you.

If you're town-aligned, is there a reason you're keeping your role hidden?

[iraonavp]

Oh, I didn't realize you meant

that

"???"... I thought you meant the other "???".

SPYREX obviously isn't a miller...

[iraonavp]

Actually now that you mentioned that, I should probably claim because my role is suspicious to be honest...

I'm tentacruel, which is town-aligned vote blocker using tentacles. I blocked LLD on night 1, and dramonic on night 2.

[iraonavp]

What?

[iraonavp]

Is that 100% what your role name is?

No, it's "Tentecruelapaca". All the roles in the game are Pokemon Alpacas.

[iraonavp]

Is that 100% what your role name is?

No, it's "Tentecruelapaca". All the roles in the game are Pokemon Alpacas.

*Tentacruelapaca

Yes, there is no "l" of the "alpaca.

[iraonavp]

This game
Fyi this should all make insane cop very clearly not make sense ps vote dgb

That's why it makes more sense to be insane, since it's useless...

[iraonavp]

SPYREX obviously isn't a miller...

yes, i am aware. miller was just an example of another role that should be claiming information. another example was if you know the amount of scum in a game. another example would be claiming information you know about voting shenanigans in a game with no votecounts...

but as i originally said about it, the way he did it ("let's see what shenanigans there are") made me think he knew all about the ??? on him d1 before it happened (or rather, that he was expecting that in particular) and i thought he was using it as a way to make himself seem town (e.g. "oh, i can't possibly be scum, look at that mysterious ??? that nobody is going to claim because it's a scum role and scum are doing something to town-me!") but given fate claimed responsibility for it, i threw that theory out the window

anyway, if dram's vote was actually blocked, then dgb is still l-1

Well, it's just that using it to make himself seem town-aligned is kind of an unreasonable interpretation to me and more likely to come from a scum-aligned player.

That's all, I don't have anything to argue about.

[iraonavp]

I didn't steal, I blocked it. Stealing is immoral.

I refuse to hammer DGB.

[iraonavp]

Not vig. I'm confirmable though (role, not alignment) and definitely a traditional role that has nothing to do with votes.

SPYREX, your entire reason to vote DGB is gone...

You should vote dramonic instead.

[iraonavp]

Honestly I'd rather lynch DGB D4. Gives an extra day for a result in case she's insane and once she's lynched if she flips cop we can work around her results.

:/

vote: DGB

There.

[iraonavp]

I'm town-aligned vote blocker, though.

[iraonavp]

I know you are town-aligned, but I would rather no lynch than mislynch.

[iraonavp]

No, I'm town-aligned and I'm not voting someone who will flip town-aligned!

[iraonavp]

Spoiler: PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT

dramonic still has not pushed a single read for the entire game.

[iraonavp]

Okay, let's hope miraculously that it's a no lynch...

[iraonavp]

VOTE: dramonic

Actually I blocked SPYREX's vote, but he died...

[iraonavp]

the DGB and LLD interactions are sketchy as fuck. DGB couldn't decide what to call LLD for the longest time up to and including voting her and calling her "town" for the shit Kanye read.

The Kanye execution was pure scum. Now that we see the scum strategy this game was to go for a ballsy "2scumz4scumz" play, we have them completely manipulating D1 and D2 with the execution and fake guilty.

LLD is scum

No amount of caps will move my vote

Spiffeh shut the fuck up I've inherited SpyreX's throne and I will be driving this chariot to victory now

mmhmm

well I honestly just don't care anymore, so whatever. We're probably in mylo or something right? sounds good, lynch me and end this game.

Why aren't you voting yourself then?

[iraonavp]

Sure, mass claim is a good idea.

I don't think Kmd4390 is scum-aligned with DGB because of that, it's even more likely to be town-aligned because otherwise he would know the setup doesn't work like that!

[iraonavp]

Look spif, we get that you're butthurt, but this is fucking stupid.

See, this is knowledge that Spiffeh is town-aligned, also very fake...

[iraonavp]

That's such a scum-aligned response.

You don't think he is, though. You're accusing him of being scum-aligned, then talking to him like he's town-aligned and wrong!

[iraonavp]

Eeeeeeeeeeh I'd lynch KMD before LLD?

(I'd not lynch LLD, to be clear)

i doubt lld is scum

i think the people who look worst from overall interactions with dgb are kmd and iraon

I mean...
:p

What dramonic is trying to squeak here is that he thinks he should be read as town-aligned for not accusing LLD.

[iraonavp]

That is good to hear.

[iraonavp]

Okay, I'm just going to vote same person as Fate now, since I read DGB's posts maybe dramonic is town-aligned....

VOTE: LLD

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Kmd4390

[iraonavp]

I refuse to vote LLD because DGB was scum-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Just like kanyeknowsbest was?

VOTE: dramonic

[iraonavp]

vote: kmd

Okay, lynch dramonic next after Kmd4390 flips town-aligned...

[iraonavp]

Yay, I was not prodded again.

Iraon, I'm confused here. If you refuse to vote LLD because DGB was scum aligned then why did you vote her start of the day. Also, I'm pretty sure I asked you a question in my last post.

LLD scum is like the Kanye thing would have been a collaborative effort. I think it's way risky though. Starting the Spiffeh wagon in the middle of the DGB wagon is kinda scummy but then she had a RL excuse all ready to not show up in thread to hammer DGB. She could have gotten away with it I think.

I dunno, I'm meh on that.

I'm Muffinz/KMD --> Dram --> LLD

I dunno why Muffinz asking for massclaim is not ringing alarm bells all around and I really don't have the energy to spare right now.

Anyway.

VOTE: KMD

Well, just because Fate did really... I wasn't sure what to do in that situation.

I'll go check!

[iraonavp]

Also Spring guess I wasn't scum in that other game, thoughts

Yeah, I saw that and was thinking about it.
You were still dark though so I dunno. Were you or weren't you trying to hint that you light aligned D1? Because I totally read you that way and thought you simultaneously scummy and wanted to keep you for later for it.

Right now I'm thinking you're problably still town just from the look of the spiffeh wagon.

@Iraon, why do you think dramonic isn't scum from dgb's play?

Also LLD, any reads?

VOTE: Muffinz

Refer to my last concerning him. I'll address his another time when I'm not wiped out. Also, why do you want a massclaim muffin?

Right now I'm still good on Muffinz or KMD today.

Oh. Well, it looked like DGB was pushing dramonic very hard from the start of the game...

But I concluded that it's just WIFOM from DGB's general focus on bussing, and elasticity increases in the long term.

[iraonavp]

Just doesn't seem that suspicious to me...

[iraonavp]

VOTE: zMuffinMan

Okay, we should lynch him as retaliation for lynching Kmd3940...

[iraonavp]

Are you sure?

Well, he probably stole my vote anyway so it doesn't matter...

UNVOTE: zMuffinMan

[iraonavp]

VOTE: Spiffeh

Very strained and fake...

[iraonavp]

Sorry, I forgot...

UNVOTE: Spiffeh

[iraonavp]

"Let me think of two buzzwords so I can somehow justify voting for someone on a whim in MYLO I have never previously expressed a scum read on."

I applaud you for trying to keep your mislynch options open

Okay, you're scum-aligned then.

[iraonavp]

Iron voting so casually is really scum as fuck

What?

If I vote someone who is scum-aligned, there's no threat of quickhammering.

[iraonavp]

Except LLD is town-aligned and Spiffeh is still coasting on a hard and senseless push while never evaluating...

[iraonavp]

Stop posting and let the adults figure things out

Okay, 48 hours.

[iraonavp]

Unless it doesn't work in MYLO/LYLO situations

I still highly doubt town has that much vote power over scum without giving scum something to counteract it (which iirc we haven't seen some rogue vote shenanigans?)

I don't know if it is...

However, I am confirmed as town-aligned for targeting the person who died twice in a row.

[iraonavp]

yeah, doesn't seem to have worked though, since it looks like it caught your attention

plan foiled

I thought you left forever!

Can you vote Spiffeh? He is scum-aligned, I am certain of this.

[iraonavp]

Right off the bat, I forgot kanye actually voted himself --- because I assume he wasn't fearing a lynch - I think it makes DGB/LLD even less likely because scum couldn't have known his role, and I don't remember kanye being a popular suspect then. If the plan was gambit city, I'd see more something like all scum voting for him and just bait one vote but dramonic flipped town.

Second, closer look at the 2 ???'s.
The first set: Fate's wagons consistently have an extra ???, so safe to assume he's not lying and that's him.
Second set=missing person each day but vote seems to count. List: camn D1, Spyrex D2, Zmuffin D3, Fate D4.
--> the net effect of the second set seems to be messing up with vote order and keeping track votes slightly more tedious.
--> I dunno, if someone wanna claim it, I'm not writing it off as scum.

(Note: everyone alive now beside Fate is on no voting in VC2.00, which achieved the hiplop lynch.)

Err, something doesn't make sense here.

Iraon, your turn to claim and claim all your blocked votes.

Actually, I'm putting this off after massclaim.

LLD, dramonic, SPYREX, dramonic.

[iraonavp]

I already said, tentacruel...

[iraonavp]

Because he said if DGB flipped scum-aligned, he would vote park me for the rest of the game and never move.

[iraonavp]

^^You didn't claim your flavor.

And why the hell did you block spyrex D3 after the DGB lynch?

And now you're asking muffin to vote spiffeh when you were voting muffin first thing in the day?

MOD: IF dramonic stole someone's vote during last night phase, does his stolen vote carry through today even though he died?

And they are scum-aligned together so I want to encourage them to bus...

[iraonavp]

Because I thought he was scum-aligned...

I blocked LLD in case she tried to kill an innocent soul like that again.

[iraonavp]

@springlullaby

There is no reason LLD or iraonavp can't have two roles

Or some factional ability that gives them an extra secret vote

If this dumb role shit that can have MULTIPLE FUCKING EXPLANATIONS is the smoking gun after all the evidence presented in favor of an LLD-iraonavp scum team then let me know and I will stop posting so you can drive the game into the ground

Spiffeh doesn't really believe this...

[iraonavp]

Well, I think the game is already lost if Fate is double voter.

[iraonavp]

The flavor is that I block their vote using tentacles, the type is irrelevant.

[iraonavp]

Wait, there are six players...

Fate, you should unvote because something is clearly wrong here. LLD and I cannot be scum-aligned together because there is an unclaimed ??? source.

[iraonavp]

The flavor is that I block their vote using tentacles, the type is irrelevant.

whose vote did you block today?

I already said...

LLD, dramonic, SPYREX, dramonic.

[iraonavp]

My vote is stolen anyway most likely... dramonic stole it from me every day.

What, springlullaby?

[iraonavp]

dram doing God's work

I'm sorry your partner is too inactive to quickhammer LLD.

VOTE: Spiffeh

Just in case he stole from someone else.

[iraonavp]

Huh, I didn't see that. Not hammering LLD.

[iraonavp]

Meh right now I feel Iraon is most likely scum.

If you hold it to be true that neither LLD nor I are responsible for the unclaimed ???, I am confirmed as town-aligned for not hammering her.

[iraonavp]

Fate, you should unvote because Spiffeh is scum-aligned.

LLD and Spiffeh are not scum-aligned together because both are genuinely salty at one another...

[iraonavp]

Every minute you keep your vote on LLD is a minute that zMuffinMan could stop cutting himself and go look on mafiascum to quickhammer...

[iraonavp]

I thought every fiber of your being was screaming Muffin was scum Spring, not iraon

The only person I can be scum-aligned with is LLD, and I am town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Because Spiffeh is very upset that he won't be able to lynch LLD, and LLD is very upset that she will get beaten by a perceived inferior being...

LLD would appeal to emotion here as either alignment, but Spiffeh would not posture and continue to push his idea through in the face of strong evidence that LLD and I are not scum-aligned together, if he was town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

Because now I know that it isn't stolen...

[iraonavp]

I was already confirmed as town-aligned because I targeted the guy who died twice, and my role is confirmed because I alerted Katsuki to the mod error.

I have to go now though...

[iraonavp]

Either of you could be scum with Iraon.

No, it's literally impossible...

I would have quickhammered LLD earlier if that was the case!

When I realized that my vote wasn't stolen, she was still at L-1 for a period of time, and during that time I said that I would not hammer.

[iraonavp]

It's not surprising that the two people I think are scum-aligned are voting together on the person I think is town-aligned...

zMuffinMan just wants to leave the site and can't do an injustice to his partner Spiffeh. However, he doesn't have enough effort to even make proper reads, and it's very fake...

[iraonavp]

I thought every fiber of your being was screaming Muffin was scum Spring, not iraon

Is that directed at me?

It still does. But I think Iraon is really scummy today.

Btw, I'm not blind to the fact taht Muffin has magically dissapeared from the thread.

But from the claims, I'd rather have Iraon first.

I am mislynched in over 70% of games where I am town-aligned, so it's not like you can tell my alignment anyway...

Also, LLD is right. Technically, you should be voting LLD if you think I am scum-aligned.

This is because I can only be scum-aligned with LLD, while LLD can be scum-aligned with all other players.

Spiffeh only wants to lynch LLD now because he is afraid that he won't be able to pull it off later, since he will probably have to kill Fate.

[iraonavp]

Oh right, you are saying this from the assumption that you are town-aligned.

i = iraonavp
s = springlullaby
f = Fate
l = LLD
p = Spiffeh
z = zMuffinMan

i l
s l
f p
l p
l z
p z

i did not hammer l
s did not hammer l
f did not hammer p

So basically, that is the only possibility, which is why I am convinced Spiffeh and zMuffinMan are scum-aligned together.

[iraonavp]

Fate which of LLD or iraonavp are we voting for

Now, look at this guy.

Does he seem town-aligned?

No, he does not.

[iraonavp]

why do you think lld is town?

Because of executing kayneknowsbest, and because Spiffeh is scum-aligned.

My reads are that springlullaby, Fate, LLD are town-aligned in that order, Spiffeh and you are scum-aligned in that order. That order means that they are from most confident to least confident.

[iraonavp]

i mean, i don't need to put in effort to get reads... lld is practically confirmed scum by poe

Ok but there's still one more left???

But if LLD is lynched (which is what zMuffinMan wants), there will not be a day 6...

[iraonavp]

Yeah it basically has to be Muffinz and Spiffeh in LLD townland

I wouldn't be able to endure losing to chuckles

Why aren't you voting them, then?

[iraonavp]

iraon say goodbye to your scumbuddy

No, I will not. This is because I am town-aligned.

[iraonavp]

That's a terrible idea that will make us lose!

[iraonavp]

I guess you're right, we already lost because Fate wants to vote the wrong person... I hope he will rethink, though.

[iraonavp]

meh, pretty much just waiting on fate to decide what to do

fate, it pretty much comes down to, do you think it's spiffeh and me? i wouldn't hold your breathe waiting for lld, iraon or spring to produce something that's going to sway you if you've already read our ISOs

so if you do think it's spiffeh and me, why?

if you don't, vote lld

zMuffinMan is presenting this false dichotomy because he knows that Spiffeh and him are the team...

From his perspective as town-aligned, it doesn't work like that!

[iraonavp]

Okay, you're scum-aligned then.

[iraonavp]

Wait, there are six players...

Fate, you should unvote because something is clearly wrong here. LLD and I cannot be scum-aligned together because there is an unclaimed ??? source.

Fate, you have forgotten this.

I cannot be scum-aligned with LLD. The only possibility is springlullaby and LLD, or Spiffeh and zMuffinMan...

Spiffeh and zMuffinMan's retorts are very weak, they cannot fight being mechanically caught, only town-aligned people can ignore it for them...

They say "oh, it could be this" when they know it isn't, and it's very unlikely. They meekly suggest edge possibilities when that is the weakest link of their entire argument!

[iraonavp]

also, double "What crazy world are you living in?"

You think I, LLD, Alexis Rice, would let IRAO CONTrOL WHO THE FUCK I KILL?

EVER?

ARE YOU HIGH?

It depends. If you made a bad choice, I would just change it at the last minute...

[iraonavp]

It's not likely at all...

Way more likely that it's a weak and pointless scum-aligned role which covers people's names, just like scum-aligned doctor.

What could it actually be? There is no reason for such a fruit vendor to be factional.

And this explicitly must be the case for what you are saying... There is no doubt, just taking down everything in your stride.

[iraonavp]

those aren't "edge possibilities" either. like, you were literally just in a game where you saw a bunch of role double-ups, so you're bullshitting if you're trying to suggest that's an "edge possibility"

What game do you mean? Is it ongoing?

I don't know what you are referring to, doesn't seem at all relevant here.

[iraonavp]

Oh, you mean having several town-aligned bodyguards?

That's completely different. That was obviously the point of the setup, but here the point is vote-related roles, not random factional abilities and bastard game... In fact, it's not a bastard game.

[iraonavp]

it is somewhat ironic that you are trying to obscure things by bringing up the ???

I am only obscuring your

lies

.

[iraonavp]

like, realistically, if all it did was cover up names, then what even is the point of revealing its existence? why would scum even use it at all if it's just a standard ability that a lone scum player has without any other abilities?

this is a rhetorical question, by the way, because i know you don't have a good answer for this

Because it makes people worry and confused about the votecounts, and allows you to claim it as a negative utility compulsive town-aligned role.

[iraonavp]

no i mean role double-ups as in cop-double-voter, neighbouriser-vig, bodyguard-flavour-cop, etc

there's literally no reason, for example, LLD couldn't have a role double-up if it's as useless an ability as you're suggesting it is

There is a reason, that's stupid and I have never seen it before except for in that strange setup.

[iraonavp]

So you admit that you're lying?

Well, not like I didn't already know...

[iraonavp]

I don't know what you were thinking, probably just assumed it useless like you said earlier...

I have played over 100 mafia games and I never saw a role double-up until then! Even then, it was a theme of the setup with several existing...

[iraonavp]

literally takes me all of two seconds to open up the other recently finished large game and see a bunch more role double-ups: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=67071

gee, so rare, you guys must be cleared. can't see any way anyone could have more than one role in a game

Okay, well... This isn't Katsuki Fighter, just Katsuki Madness...

I don't think you can justify your level of confidence when there is unlikely to be a role in the setup of that kind, just because there are examples of it.

[iraonavp]

No other double-up role has flipped.

Most roles of this game have little utility, and DGB was not double-up role.

Think about how unbalanced it would be if LLD and I were both scum-aligned... It just wouldn't fit. Both the roles are ones that are stupid to play against as scum-aligned, too.

[iraonavp]

yeah, "unlikely", because you said so, right?

don't even know why i'm engaging with you

Yes, you are engaging me because without sarcasm brigading Fate could be receptive to my concise and factual argument.

[iraonavp]

the point isn't even about what is or isn't "likely", btw

it's that you're trying to clear yourself of being scum

and you're trying to use that as a crutch to suggest that it's spiffeh and me

but you're speaking out of your ass in a desperate attempt to deflect the suspicion coming towards you and LLD

and ignoring the facts to do this

there ARE plenty of possible explanations for why the ??? exists - i don't know what the actual explanation is. maybe you're right and i'm wrong about a role double-up. it could be something else. i don't care. the only people who care about discussing that sort of thing are scum who are trying to use it against people

Okay, you can take this W I guess... I don't think I am good at arguing to convince Fate, I have too much punctuation.

[iraonavp]

Well, pretty sure you made the wrong choice...

[iraonavp]

Oh no, we lost...

[iraonavp]

I agree, especially when DrippingGoofball claimed cop for no reason.