Katsuki's Madness Prequel II - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

oh... right, apparently "is that the cupcake game?" counted as a pre-in

go figure

[zMuffinMan]

I love cupcakes and mylittleequinoxcakes!

anyway, i figure i'll go against the spirit of this game and keep track of votecounts myself

inb4 mod kill

notEquinox's VC 1.1. ruining cupcake's game is... the name of the game... or something

DrippingGooball (1)

: iraonavp

Not voting:

camn, SpyreX, Godly One, DrippingGoofball, Spiffeh, kanyeknowsbest, Lady Lambdadelta, Kmd4390, Fate, hiplop, dramonic, farside22, SpringLullaby

ps: cupcake can't even spell my pokemon

^ scum

you're not trying hard enough, spiffeh, it wasn't this easy last game

[zMuffinMan]

Discuss

what is there to even discuss? it's clearly got to happen

anyone who tries that "I'll be the vote count helper person!" shit is scum

*shrug* it's something i literally do in every game with pseudo votes or missing votecounts

[zMuffinMan]

uh im heading to work in like <5 mins but off the top of my head

kuribo in wonderland (as g[o]dz) i suggested an idea that would involve me keeping track of pseudo votes (it never took off but still)
pieguy's corpse party game had a different special mechanic and i did it there (as zel1nk)
nati's serum and steel when she went missing for pages at a time i kept track of votecounts in her place. this and i think one other game just before it (dont remember what it was) that i did it in were actually a large part of the reason vezok asked me to backup mod for him in an open game he ran (despite me having no actual modding experience, we'll ignore how it was even allowed to happen...)

[zMuffinMan]

actually i dont think ive done it as scum, ironically

at least i cant remember a game i did it as scum

[zMuffinMan]

maybe it's because of your avatar. it doesn't look very town

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: hiplop

[zMuffinMan]

i don't really have a town read on iraonavp but i also don't have a scum read on him

there's minor things he's written here and there that i'm ok with

and while it's super obvious why he's being voted (he's like the offspring of titus and zakk), i don't really think the shit he's posting is shit he's posting coz he's scum

i mean he could be scum, but my impression of him is that he'd post the same inane shit as town or scum so

[zMuffinMan]

If he is mislynch bait now, then he is mislynch bait in LYLO

eh, not necessarily and this is a dumb argument to make tbh

[zMuffinMan]

im not really saying he should get a free pass, just that i dont think the people voting him are voting him for something he wouldn't do as town

[zMuffinMan]

do you have a read on hiplop

[zMuffinMan]

i don't have a read on him

[zMuffinMan]

my reads are pretty boring atm

i have like three reads that aren't exactly ground-breaking and the rest i'm varying degrees of meh about

[zMuffinMan]

oh, also, pagetop

NOTEQUINOX'S VC 1.2

iraonavp (5):

camn, hiplop, springlullaby, dramonic, Lady Lambdadelta

DrippingGoofball (2):

kanyeknowsbest, iraonavp

Spiffeh (1):

Kmd4390

SpyreX (1):

Spiffeh

hiplop (1):

[post=Godly One]Godly One[/post]

Not Voting (4):

SpyreX, DrippingGoofball, Fate, farside22

14 alive, 8 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-14 13:00:00)

pedit: or not

[zMuffinMan]

well that failed as well, that's what i get for not p-editing it. imagine that the post= posttag didn't fail, yeah

Why hiplop?

he's being less talkative than i expected he'd be at this point in the game and another reason i might talk about at a later stage in the day (if i remember / it's still relevant)

[zMuffinMan]

why is dgb your strongest town read?

[zMuffinMan]

o well if says no order but whatever

why is she one of your solid town reads

[zMuffinMan]

why are you voting him?

[zMuffinMan]

if i voted everyone i thought was "scum or deadweight" in games, if be policy lynching until i got endgamed most of the time

not interested unless he does something that's

actually

scummy

[zMuffinMan]

id be*

[zMuffinMan]

Do you think DGB is scum?

no, but i don't have a town read on her

i felt ok about her camn interaction (it did feel loose) but it's early enough and sparse enough that it's not something i couldn't see scum doing

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: hiplop

Come at me

i giggled like a schoolgirl reading this next to your avatar

That is a shitty reason

*shrug* it is what it is

i expected an explosion of posts from you like your recent posts earlier in the game and now that it actually has happened i'm underwhelmed. meh

what don't you like about spiffeh

[zMuffinMan]

if

iraon is town (and i'm currently thinking that's not so big an if), i would not be at all surprised if there's 2 scum in { hiplop, springlullaby, dram, lld }

[zMuffinMan]

Hey Muffinz

Join me and vote Fate

He'll magically appear

VOTE: Fate

what's the point of this vote?

do you have any scum reads?

[zMuffinMan]

hey hiplop

why is spiffeh scum

[zMuffinMan]

the thing with spiffeh is i never really thought he was town in pyp (i didn't think he was scum, either, early on, but i never thought he was town)

i think he's more likely town than scum here, though, and i'm not seeing hiplop's push on him as anything other than for show

which describes how i feel about pretty much the entire stream of posts from 145 to the next page by him and i agree with what spiffeh said about the interaction with dram feeling off - he looks more like he's trying to look busy than like he's actually trying to find scum

[zMuffinMan]

woot

script works (as far as i can tell)

AUTO GENERATED VOTECOUNT 1.02

iraonavp (3):

springlullaby, dramonic, Lady Lambdadelta

Spiffeh (2):

Kmd4390, hiplop

dramonic (2):

Spiffeh, iraonavp

Fate (2):

DrippingGoofball, camn

DrippingGoofball (1):

kanyeknowsbest

hiplop (1):

zMuffinMan

Kmd4390 (1):

farside22

Not Voting (2):

SpyreX, Fate

14 alive, 8 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-14 13:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, so what don't you like about spiffeh?

[zMuffinMan]

if

iraon is town (and i'm currently thinking that's not so big an if), i would not be at all surprised if there's 2 scum in { hiplop, springlullaby, dram, lld }

can you pls explain what changed you for you to think hes scum nowty

that's not what that post says

[zMuffinMan]

one issue i have with the idea dram is scum is why dram-scum would think it's a good idea to continue pushing this "i h8 iron" line of posting when it's clearly not going to make people think better of him for it

i mean, you could argue he's just doing it to make people think he's stubborn town i suppose, but that seems a lot riskier than just doing something people are more likely to receive well (and think is town)

AUTO GENERATED VOTECOUNT 1.03

dramonic (6):

Spiffeh, iraonavp, DrippingGoofball, hiplop, SpyreX, camn

iraonavp (3):

springlullaby, dramonic, Lady Lambdadelta

Kmd4390 (3):

farside22, Fate, kanyeknowsbest

Spiffeh (1):

Kmd4390

hiplop (1):

zMuffinMan

14 alive, 8 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-14 13:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

im not a fan of spyrex's posting

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, if he flips town, lynch me for not being fucking stupid

maybe dram is right

[zMuffinMan]

lld and springlullaby both need prods

[zMuffinMan]

yeah just went over dram's iso again

don't really think he's scum but i'm not particularly confident about his read. the one-dimensional push on iron still doesn't look like something scum thinks is a good idea and little stuff like 236 and 251 feel townish

[zMuffinMan]

outside of giving a few town reads that aren't really controversial, spyrex has done shit all this game

in the earlier pages, i felt like he was trying really hard not to give an opinion on iraon and it felt a lot like he was waiting to see whether or not the wagon was going to lose momentum before he committed to anything there

and 277 isn't something i think town actually says if they really want to "lynch the shit out of someone" and i don't believe that 270 and 273 were something that would tip the scales if he didn't think the rest of dram's posts looked like scum

[zMuffinMan]

dramonic is (currently) saying that I am town-aligned, and trying to policy lynch me

that's not what he's saying, though

[zMuffinMan]

Why does it make any more sense for him to do that as town-aligned, especially when he has historically tried to defend me instead of doing this as town-aligned?

it's not like that has never happened (where someone decides "fuck it i'm going to policy lynch the shit out of X if i ever play with them again")

but let's reverse this: why does he try to push a policy lynch on you this hard instead of doing the same thing as last game?

because the only answers i can think of if he's scum are that he *thinks* it's something he would do as town or that this is just some really shitty plan designed only to work on players who think like i do

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: Kanye

why kanye?

[zMuffinMan]

camn kanye spiffeh
farside iraon
dgb dram
fate lld spring kmd
spyrex hiplop

this is roughly where im at, no real ordering within tiers

[zMuffinMan]

He forgot how obviously inconsistent this was with his last game

...

[zMuffinMan]

You are supposing that everything dramonic did was planned

no i'm assuming scum aren't just fucking idiots that go "derp derp i'm going to do x because why the fuck not?" with no thought about how it makes them look to others

because even REALLY bad scum have a pretty basic idea of what things are likely to make them look like town and what things are likely to make them look like scum

so unless he's so completely unaware of his own attitude towards others that he didn't realise it was a "contradictory" stance to take, the more likely explanation is that even if he IS scum, he's doing it entirely because he would do this (or something similar to this) as town. i do believe that regardless of his alignment, he would try to policy lynch you - the only question in my mind is whether he'd be this stubborn about it as town or whether he's just pretending to be this stubborn about it

[zMuffinMan]

by the way if he does flip scum, i still think i'm right about the fact he'd do this as either town or scum, and i'd bet good money on the fact that he'd do something similar in the next game you play with him where he's town

[zMuffinMan]

The only reason I am not voting you

if i had boots on, id be shaking in them about now

please dont try to get me lynched, i don't know if i'll be able to defend myself if someone as terrifying as you comes after me

i can tell you're going to be a high priority night kill in this game

[zMuffinMan]

That is like saying "why would a scum-aligned player scumslip"...

no it isn't. slips are an unconscious thing, scum have to actively choose who they're going to attack and why

that's why the argument that dram just "forgot" or that dram is scum and doing something without thinking about it is dumb

Oh you

Ok, sell me. Make me buy your timeshare

Like who the fuck puts someone who made this fucking post on their scum list right now

like for real

there's nothing town about that post, even if he is town

[zMuffinMan]

do go on, hiplop

[zMuffinMan]

I do like after chuckles posts chain lynches on town flips muffin actually paints shock on my inability to come to grips on what that slot is doing.

i mean, i don't think he's a good player but i also think it's more likely he's town than scum and i don't believe you still haven't formed some opinion on that

[zMuffinMan]

you've been not-so-subtly implying you think im scum since i first called you scum... let me guess, it's because im tacky like spiffeh?

so we're clear, your current scum reads are me, dram and spiffeh? if not, give me three names for scum, hiplop

[zMuffinMan]

i think scum can go pants on head, but that stuff isn't forming any part of my town read on him so i don't really care about it that much

im mobile now so not going to be able to quote it all properly but there's a decent amount of stuff he's written in between the titus-logic that gave me a town read on him (and even the titus-logic isn't so bad; i didn't mind his recent interaction with lld for example)

[zMuffinMan]

spyrex, what do your reads currently look like? in particular, who do you think is scum?

[zMuffinMan]

AUTO GENERATED VOTECOUNT 1.04

dramonic (4):

Spiffeh, hiplop, SpyreX, camn

SpyreX (3):

Fate, iraonavp, farside22

iraonavp (2):

springlullaby, dramonic

kanyeknowsbest (2):

Lady Lambdadelta, DrippingGoofball

Spiffeh (1):

Kmd4390

hiplop (1):

zMuffinMan

Kmd4390 (1):

kanyeknowsbest

14 alive, 8 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-14 13:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

I think I've been pretty clear that I think LLD is bus'ing... which means they'd both be scum.

i don't really think lld is the sort of player who would bus a heavily town-read buddy d1. no amount of town cred earned would make that be a sensible move. like, even if she were like some immune-to-everything-ever scum role that was hoping no one would bat an eyelid when scum haven't killed her at lylo, still no

where does this read even come from?

[zMuffinMan]

vote: kanye

why are you voting kanye?

[zMuffinMan]

although i think it's pretty likely hiplop is scum anyway, i want dgb to both flavour claim and state in unambiguous writing that she is 100% clear on what her sanity is before a lynch goes through today

anyway, what i didn't get a chance to talk about yesterday because

someone

(not naming names) decided to execute someone else, is that i think spyrex is either scum or at least fully aware of a number of voting shenanigans going on in this game. the first thing i wanted to do if i lived past the night was ask cupcake for a votecount (which spring seems to have done in my place) because i do NOT think it was any coincidence that spyrex wrote this:

mod: give us a real votecount please

Let's see if there's any shenanigans now

... and magically cupcake, out of the kindness of his own heart, decided it was time to post a votecount in a game where it was explicitly stated that there won't be any. the very wording of that last sentence makes it seem like he both knows a votecount is actually coming and that he knows about certain oddities that were going to appear in the votecount. and lo and behold, we have a ??? on spyrex and it seems like kmd is voteless

nope. no fucking way does spyrex not have more information about this shit than he's letting on and if he DOES have more information about this, i cannot think of a single reason why he would withhold that information as town. like, yeah, he's not-so-subtly hinted at it a couple times, but that's not what town does when they know certain things about a game's mechanic that are better off made public

i think his play itself has been rather dull and boring. i talked about this in 295 and pretty much nothing about his play has changed since then. he hasn't answered my question in 397 yet and i don't actually know what he thinks of anyone at the moment. his play looks like pretty standard trying-to-stay-under-the-radar stuff and i don't remember anything he's written that's made me think, "yeah, that's a town thought process"

add to all this the fact that in his first post today he acted oblivious about it and tried to spin it in his favour makes me all the more sure of this, which is why i wanna see whether cupcake actually posts a votecount on request and if he doesn't then i think spyrex should die immediately after hiplop.

if cupcake does post votecounts on request, then whatever, it's not the silver bullet i want it to be but i still don't like his play and while i don't have any sort of proof of it, i do think spyrex knows more than he's letting on

[zMuffinMan]

I think I've been pretty clear that I think LLD is bus'ing... which means they'd both be scum.

i don't really think lld is the sort of player who would bus a heavily town-read buddy d1. no amount of town cred earned would make that be a sensible move. like, even if she were like some immune-to-everything-ever scum role that was hoping no one would bat an eyelid when scum haven't killed her at lylo, still no

where does this read even come from?

vote: kanye

why are you voting kanye?

i still want both these questions answered

[zMuffinMan]

#99, ZMuffin, noise post. Scummy. Reads so far ?
#114, 115, ZMuffin, I don’t read Ira as inane but his voting history is bad. So the point here is Ira can’t be read? Disagreed, scummy if Ira flips town, and also disagreed about camn.
#219, Muffin, why 2 scums? Not 1 or 3 or whatever? Why is everyone thinking ZmUffin town again? This just makes no sense to me. Scummy. Why are you asking DGB and not Camn?
#224, Muffin, So who are you voting again? How can anyone write a letter about hiplop and spiffeh’s interaction? I don’t read hiplop’s vote on spiffeh as ‘for show’. It’s more like either wtf or omgus. Both are nullish. Meh on that vote scummy.
#287 Muffin, do not like this post at all. It’s just feel like threat. I totally get what Ira is feeling.
>Muffin 305/306. Errrgh. Really dislike those posts a lot. Basically Dram is too scummy to be scum. Which is top scumtell for me. Don’t like the tone either, using angry language to defend a stupid explanation. And betting money on what dram would do in the next game? WTF? SCUM. Also the condescension is very bad in my books.

this is all i can actually find about where your read on me comes from

it looks like you're suggesting i'm scum because i pointed out that the wagons on iraon/dram were for shitty reasons, that i said i wouldn't be surprised if there were two scum voting iraon in the early pile-on and that i made fun of iraon for being stupid...

ok

normally i might dismantle your reasoning bit by bit, but there's not even anything to break down here. none of these things even come close to being good reasons to think i'm scum so i don't see how this led to a vote on me at the end of yesterday

[zMuffinMan]

SOLID TOWN: Kanye, Farside, Iraon
>>>>> SCUMZ: MUFFIN, LLD, KMD
Can be scumz: spiffeh, dram
Varying degree of null for everyone else.

i want to know how these reads change on a hiplop scum flip

[zMuffinMan]

I don't believe dgb's claim, her read this game show no indication she was scum reading hippy. Her investigation claim is the equivalent of me pulling a rabbi out of my ass.
Hippy's reaction is worse. My initial thoughts was this reads like a bus.

this is funny, because my first thought when reading it was something along these lines happening in the scum qt last night

dgb: "trololol i said lld was bussing kanye and no one made a fuss about how bullshit that was"
hiplop: "yea i noe right. also im scum"
dgb: "you know what would actually be funny? if we did something like that with a fake cop guilty. no one would believe it"
hiplop: "omg awesome. also im scum"
spyrex: "me too"

but i don't actually think it's likely for pretty much the same reason as you said. outside of having to explain living deep into the game, there's a lot of potential ways she could be fucked over even before then

the hiplop/spyrex parts of that conversation still probably happened though

[zMuffinMan]

I also think that zMuffinMan is slightly scum-aligned.

uh-huh

why? does this change if hiplop flips scum or have i been trying to bus him since d1?

[zMuffinMan]

i am a psyduck alpaca

so your flavour name is "psyduck alpaca"?

[zMuffinMan]

why did you ask for a votecount? did you expect he'd do one?

[zMuffinMan]

i don't know what you are but i don't believe you know nothing about what's going on with the votecounts and if you do i don't see why you're being secretive about it if you're town

[zMuffinMan]

yeah that would make sense except for the fact that both before the game even started and in the ruleset of this game, the special mechanic explicitly states there will be no votecounts... but the line after you asked makes it look like you not only expected one but knew there would be shenanigans in it

and yes i think you know something about the ??? and your first post today makes me think you did it in hopes of people looking at the mystery vote and thinking it was done by scum

i don't believe the scenario where you're town and keeping it super secret is at all likely but whatever

tbh it's not the even the biggest part of why i think you're scum, it's just something i noticed that would make perfect sense if you are...

i still want to know what your current scum reads outside of hilltop look like

[zMuffinMan]

hiplop*

/autocorrect

[zMuffinMan]

dram why did you vote kanye

[zMuffinMan]

'too scummy to be scum' is really bad in my books

ok, great, but that's not at all what i was saying about anyone d1 anyway, so i don't see why you're bringing it up

Iraon was pointing out what looked like a straight lie from dramonic

no, not really... there was no "lie" or anything

iraon's argument was: "dram didn't want to policy lynch me last game and he was town, now he does so he must be scum"

what i did was point out how silly that argument is and i argued that it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for scum to do that anyway, unless they're angling for "scum wouldn't ever do something like that because it's dumb..." (i doubt this is what happened) or they genuinely think it regardless of their alignment (probably the case)

you could argue that the

way in which he did it

was scummy for one reason or another, but that wasn't what was being argued

[zMuffinMan]

AUTO GENERATED VOTECOUNT 2.01

hiplop (3):

DrippingGoofball, Kmd4390, dramonic

dramonic (2):

hiplop, iraonavp

Not Voting (7):

zMuffinMan, Spiffeh, Lady Lambdadelta, Fate, springlullaby, SpyreX, farside22

12 alive, 7 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-20 13:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

To see what would happen IRT LLD's thing.

... what did you think was going to happen?

[zMuffinMan]

iraon could be scum with hiplop

on iraon's end, the only interaction he had with hiplop prior to today was questioning the vote hiplop did very early on in the game and outside of that... nothing. no read, no commentary, that's it. the interaction with regards to the hiplop wagon today ("i'm not going to vote because there's no votecounts") makes zero sense whatsoever

and on hiplop's end, there's been basically no read progression on iraon at all since his early vote/unvote - he hasn't called iraon town, he just unvoted and went after spiffeh with no real mention about what happened to his read on iraon. hiplop hasn't shied away from at least stating a read on the majority of the game at this point (outside of some low content players, but iraon is not a low content player)

i could easily see the early voting as distancing and the weak reaction from iraon to that. the fact that there's practically no interaction between them after that point is pretty typical of scum who think "hey i need to interact with my homeboys" so do something early on with their buddy and then just either forget or don't bother doing it again throughout most of the game

nothing rock solid here, but i definitely think more attention should be paid to iraon after hiplop is lynched

[zMuffinMan]

i got the opposite impression reading those posts

hiplop's early stance on iraon followed by a drought of opinions on him is what bothers me

[zMuffinMan]

It seemed really obvious to me that SPYREX was crumbing role which can affect votes on day 1.

except that's not what he's saying. he explicitly denied that, actually

[zMuffinMan]

how does showing understanding knowledge of the setup make him scum-aligned?

it doesn't. that wasn't the point i was making, though

the point i was making is that IF he knows more about the setup, i cannot think of a good reason he'd not share it publicly as town and that his first post today (where he tries to spin it in his favour) is something that i could very easily see scum doing in his position if he was responsible for the vote shenanigans

[zMuffinMan]

by the way, when he does eventually talk about whatever he knows, if there isn't a very good reason he kept it hidden, he should probably be lynched

[zMuffinMan]

... you're not "claiming your role" by saying "i know x y z about what's happening with votes in this game" any more than, say, a neighbour claiming they're in a neighbourhood is "claiming their role"

and if you know something about it and you take it to the grave then that's even worse if it could actually make a difference in the game

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, again, spyrex claimed he had nothing to do with the oddities in the votecount so what point are you trying to make there exactly?

also there's a fucking claimed cop with a guilty on hiplop. that whole paragraph about hiplop is just bad

[zMuffinMan]

why

haven't

you even once addressed the claim cop today?

[zMuffinMan]

did you follow pyp at all after you replaced out, iraon?

[zMuffinMan]

i want to know what dgb did last night and i want to know exactly how her role pm is worded

[zMuffinMan]

hey spiffeh, is iraon scum or town?

[zMuffinMan]

because i think you're likely scum and i want to know whether he still thinks you're town and why

[zMuffinMan]

i also find it hard to believe that scum just decided "fuck it let's leave a claimed cop unblocked tonight and kill farside instead"

[zMuffinMan]

those night kills could easily have been made by a dgb scum team, too. camn spent a lot of d1 talking about how she wanted to sort dgb and iirc farside had dgb as scum d2

and im struggling to remember anything she's done this game outside of claim cop and "lol lld is bussing kanye" which still makes absolutely no sense to me and i think she still hasn't answered my question about why she even thought that

[zMuffinMan]

And please tone down the rhetoric with iraonavp - give the guy a chance. Insults are counter-productive.

LLD if you want to convince people that kanye is scum you'll have to do more than just say-so. As it is it looks like bus'ing to me.

You think I'm bussing?

Fantastic, hop aboard DGB. Let's lynch scum together.

I still have no idea why kanye is scum but if he's your buddy and you want to give him up for towncred I'm on board - though you'll get

scum

cred if he actually flips scum.

VOTE: kanye

going back over dgb's iso

this post is really, really bad in hindsight

[zMuffinMan]

the whole way she handled the Kanye thing is pretty meh actually

the only misgivings i have are a. why she bothered claiming a guilty on hiplop d2 unprompted under basically no pressure, and b. why she wouldn't just claim blocked for the rest of the game if she's scum (because that's literally the only sensible explanation for why she'd be left alive and if i were scum planning to do some lol fake guilty gambit, this is what id do)

though i suppose both of these could theoretically be explained with "dumb scum team"

[zMuffinMan]

actually, fuck it. i don't want dgb anywhere near a lylo/mylo situation and i think there's a decent chance she's just scum

Vote: DGB

[zMuffinMan]

who do you think is scum, then?

[zMuffinMan]

(apart from dram)

admittedly dram's play has been pretty shit but i don't think ive seen dram play a game where i didn't think that

as for why dgb might do that as scum, i can think of plausible possibilities. maybe she was counting on going "lol insane" on his flip, maybe scum *actually* have a fake claim of cop and that's what they chose to do with it, maybe some other plethora of reasons im not thinking of

[zMuffinMan]

ill read over dram when i get home

[zMuffinMan]

eh, dram's iso is pretty garbage and i actually dont have a clue who he thinks is scum right now

im gonna sleep on it, but i still think dgb isn't a bad lynch

[zMuffinMan]

and you sound like scum impatient for said powerlynch to occur

you have a "guilty" result on me. in order for me to be scum, either you'd have to be paranoid (not a threat to scum, so they wouldn't need to "power lynch" you) or i'd need to be a godfather (and decided not to do anything about you on the off-chance you'd investigate me over anyone else in the game)

[zMuffinMan]

I agree I shouldn't be allowed anywhere near LYLO.

The scum definitely should NK me because if I am insane... my results are meaningful. If I am paranoid, they are rubbish, so they shouldn't take a chance, they need to kill me.

and this doesn't make any sense in conjunction with #650

[zMuffinMan]

interesting

either i don't exist in the votecount or i'm ???

[zMuffinMan]

someone on the spiffeh wagon is also voteless

dearest cupcake, please confirm that votecount is correct

[zMuffinMan]

There is an insane cop because the only useful abilities are vote related...

what does this mean?

[zMuffinMan]

yeah he also noted he fucked up one of the three votecounts he's actually done 5 posts later

that's both sad and funny at the same time

[zMuffinMan]

when kmd next posts (some time around christmas perhaps), it'd be cool if he could clarify whether or not he was voteless d1

[zMuffinMan]

kmd voted spiffeh d1 and never unvoted

[zMuffinMan]

DGB is not scum

why?

all you've really said about this is that you don't see her claiming cop d2 as scum

but really, apart from the things about her play i've pointed out that i think are more likely to come from scum than town (her recent actions don't really change anything and she looks like scum who isn't doing much to rock the boat right now), i've been thinking about this...

there is no damn reason for an off-sanity cop to exist in this setup

i don't really agree there's "no reason" to include an off-sanity cop in this setup (yeah, it doesn't make sense thematically if the setup is designed around votes and stuff but i don't think that necessarily means anything), but i do think it doesn't make much sense from a balance point of view... in the majority of cases where she's paranoid or insane, her power is pretty much going to result in at least one mislynch and quite possibly two (her own) and i don't think this is something a mod (even cupcake...) would overlook and unless there's some insanely strong roles in the unclaimed players, i don't really see how town makes up a deficit like that in this setup. i also don't really see cupcake not telling her that her sanity is questionable if she's a cop (i know someone brought up fakegod and his off-sanity cops but no cop in any fakegod game has been unaware that they might not be sane). and i don't really see scum leaving her alone n2 and letting her get another result if she could be an insane cop. actually, a whole lot of things have to have happened for her role to make any sense in this setup that i just don't think happened

and if the counter-argument is just that she wouldn't claim it as scum then meh, i think that's a pretty subpar defense that ignores basically everything else that's happened/is happening in the game

[zMuffinMan]

@spiffeh

dram could be scum

but

there's nothing about dgb's play that's town

[zMuffinMan]

yes, your play has clearly been town-motivated, i don't know how i missed that

Unvote

everything from your "i think lld is bussing kanye but no matter how many times you ask me why i think that, im just going to ignore you" to your "i have a guilty result on you but you're scum trying to push a mislynch on me but i could be insane so scum need to kill me" to your "im sheeping spiffeh and doing nothing else today"

i feel silly for thinking otherwise

[zMuffinMan]

wait no, hold on a sec... none of that is town

Vote: DGB

[zMuffinMan]

that seems like a really pointless exercise and even if lld is scum i don't think cupcake is a bad enough mod to allow an ability like that anywhere near a lylo situation

[zMuffinMan]

you're aware that 4 isn't half of 14 right?

[zMuffinMan]

you're aware that 4 isn't half of 14 right?

wait nm your theory is literally that she could be scum that can repeatedly execute at half the required number to lynch

you're aware that if she's scum, then unless it's a 2-man scum team, they could end the game now if she could do that, right?

[zMuffinMan]

And there's anything about dramonic's play that's town-aligned? I don't think DGB is scum-aligned...

no, not really. there's nothing town about dram's play, but i think there's far more reason to think dgb is scum

from a play perspective these are things she's done in this game

d1 she spent the majority of her time doing not a lot of anything (minor interactions with a few people here and there and a push on fate before he'd even posted in the game). her first major move was calling lld and kanye scum (or rather, suggesting that lld was bussing kanye). i've asked her multiple times why she thought this. farside asked her why she thought this. she's yet to give a single reason as to why she thought this. i don't think it was a town thought process. i think was she was doing was fanning the flames and coming up with a bullshit excuse to do so

d2 there's not a whole lot to talk about, except for the fact that she didn't do a lot outside of the guilty thing. but then there aren't a lot of people who did, so whatever

d3, what has she done? she parked her vote on dramonic because she was "sheeping spiffeh" and... what else? suggest scum need to kill her because she could be insane, even though her first reaction to me pushing her (the person she supposedly has a result on) is that i'm scum? and other than that, all she's done is indulge spring in her backwards "let's check whether cupcake decided to include an unlimited-shot executioner that can kill with half the required votes" thing?

and yes, i am fully aware that dram has done basically jack shit the entire game and that it's very easy to pick apart his iso and point to bad things he's done that are awful and whatnot. but like, that's it... he just hasn't done anything town and that's basically it. he could very well be scum who hasn't done jack shit but i'm not looking at his posts and going "i don't think that's a stance town would take". even the whole "policy lynch" thing isn't something i couldn't see a town player doing if they just didn't like another player that much

so, why do you think dgb is town?

[zMuffinMan]

What are your reads beside DGB scum again?

the pool of players i'm looking at is { iraon, kmd, dram, spiffeh }

most of my dislike of iraon stems from his play around the hiplop situation yesterday. e.g.

Hiplop, can you claim? I am not going to vote because there is no vote count...

this was his first reaction to the dgb-hiplop situation, which (1) was not a good reason to not vote him, and (2) fails to actually address what was going on in the game in any signficant way

i don't think it's impossible for town to think something might be amiss. i don't even think it's impossible for town to explore other options. but that's not what iraon did... he stayed as far away from the hiplop situation as he could

when he eventually did address the hiplop thing, it was just a "welp, has to happen" (post 558) followed by sheeping farside onto dram then sheeping farside back on to hiplop again in 592

i don't really think this is a town thought progression. and outside of this, i really can't remember what he's done aside from push dram and express dislike for the dgb wagon more recently

kmd/dram i'm really only looking at because i don't remember either of them doing anything town

and spiffeh i'm mostly looking at as a potential partner to dgb/iraon. it's why i asked him about iraon at the start of the day and why i've asked him about dgb as well. i don't think he likes bussing a lot. his play itself i don't actually have much issue with (tbh i think it's more likely town than scum), i just can't point to anything definitively town in his iso and his interactions with other people i think could be scum (apart from dram) aren't great. that said, if dram is scum, then spiffeh (and iraon) probably aren't scum with him so whatever

i have town reads to varying degrees on the rest of the game

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin the bottom line is that I sincerely doubt that DGB fakes a guilty as scum

With like every fiber of my being

ok, but why?

like there's a plethora of reasons she might have done it as scum. i don't see how you can so vehemently believe it's impossible to come from scum

Like does anyone have any idea as to what his reads are or his thoughts on anything about the gamestate at all?

ok. i see dram's posts and agree they're shit. i agree he's done basically no scum hunting whatsoever this game and he's capable of at least trying to find scum as town

i could even see dram and dgb being scum together (on dgb's end, all she's really done with regards to dram is claim she's sheeping you today when the dram wagon had already taken off, only to jump ship when she realised it wasn't going anywhere and i didn't like dram's wishy-washy stance on her today)

but dgb's play isn't town play

[zMuffinMan]

This feels so god damn much like PYP Spiffeh to me. Thoughts, Muffin?

not really. i didn't follow all the posts as closely after i died, but i don't remember him ever taking as hard a stance on magua/rando in that game as he's taken on dram in this game. the only real issue i have with him here is how he's interacting with the people i think are scum (which does remind me of pyp)

[zMuffinMan]

If there's anyone that looks like their PYP incarnation it's you

also not really

what do you think is actually similar?

[zMuffinMan]

this is current minus voting shenanigans (fate's vote counts as 2 i assume so add one to the spiffeh count and i'm going to take a wild stab in the dark and say lld didn't just execute herself but don't ask me how i managed to guess this):

Spiffeh (3):

Lady Lambdadelta, Fate, dramonic

Lady Lambdadelta (3):

springlullaby, DrippingGoofball, Spiffeh

DrippingGoofball (2):

SpyreX, zMuffinMan

dramonic (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (1):

Kmd4390

10 alive, 6 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-28 11:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

What the assumption here? That scum is trying to set up a mislynch by...voting another scum?

firstly that being the pool of players i think could be scum doesn't mean i think they're all scum together (i even explicitly mentioned that i think certain players don't make much sense as scum together). secondly, it looks like you're suggesting scum don't vote each other while simultaneously suggesting you think im scum bussing

[zMuffinMan]

have you never had (or seen someone have) two people as scum reads that you (or they) don't think make sense as scum together?

[zMuffinMan]

you're not even reading my posts, because if you were, everything you asked there would have already been answered and you'd know that the things you're saying i didn't do are things i actually did

[zMuffinMan]

Even if you take out iraon and Dram, which are the only people he expressly mentioned as mutually exclusive

stopped reading here, because this shows you didn't actually read what i wrote

to be clear, i've expressly said spiffeh makes sense as a partner to dgb and iraon, but not to dram

the rest of your post is drivel since you didn't even take the time to read what i've said about spiffeh

[zMuffinMan]

Dismissal from zMuffin, that's a scumtactic I've never seen before. Especially since I address the dgb/iraon/spiffeh nonsense in the part you conveniently didn't read.

i went back to check what part of your post "addresses" that, and the only part you mention what i said is the last line (an off-hand comment about how i'm trying to set something up by doing it) after writing a whole bunch of inane shit about how the people i think are scum shouldn't make sense together (which ignores the whole part about me saying i don't think iraon/spiffeh are scum with dram but i do think they could be scum together)

so yeah, i'm gonna dismiss what you're saying because you're so far off the mark that i could jump up and down on my keyboard and produce something more sensible

tbh, i don't really care if you think i'm bussing dgb. i actually find your posts about it amusing and if it ends up with me getting who i want lynched then i could care less

but let's examine your criticisms of my stances

as far as i can tell, you think i'm bussing dgb because... magical reasons that haven't actually been given unless i missed them. all you've actually said about it is that i wasn't trying to put together a plausible scum team, which, apart from the fact that isn't actually true, is just nonsense. why are scum less likely to put together a "plausible scumteam"? do you think if i were scum, i wouldn't be able to do that? do you think that's a

hard

thing to actually do?

ZMuffin's compelling case on Iraon is that Iraon switched vote between hiplop and Dramonic D2. The exact terms used in #829 is that Iraon was "sheeping" farside with his Dramonic vote, whilst Iraon has been calling Dramonic scum D1, a fact that ZMuffin cannot possibly ignore since he commented on it at lenght D1 with his "dram=too scummy to be scum" explanation of why he thought Ira's case wasn't good.

iraon *was* sheeping farside d2. i don't mean that he didn't think dram was scum before it, i mean his vote shifts came as a direct result of where the momentum was shifting as a result of farside's votes

the chain of posts i'm referring to are 558 (iraon) -> 566 (farside) -> 568 (iraon) -> 588 (farside) -> 592 (iraon)

that all happened within the span of a day by the way. iraon was moving his vote with the momentum changes that farside was bringing about. if that's not sheeping, what would you call it? the shifts in votes don't look like someone who's thinking about the game in the way a town player would. but that's not even the biggest part of what i was saying about iraon d2. his entire position (or lack thereof) on the hiplop thing looked like he knew hiplop was going to flip town. everything he said about hiplop d2 (even when voting him) made it look like he knew hiplop was flipping town. he

claims

this is because hiplop wasn't acting scummy but if he were town and thinking that, you'd think he'd, oh, i dunno, put up some resistance to what was happening d2, be a bit more vocal about his opinion on this, or something like that

also, the idea that i called dram "too scummy to be scum" is just blatantly wrong. what i actually did was point out that i didn't see the scum motivation in doing something that causes so much friction with other players. iraon's entire point about dram d1 boiled down to "he's pushing a policy lynch on me and he didn't do that in his first game with me". like, even if dram is scum, that's just a pile of shit case (even when compared to what you're pushing now)

As for Spiffeh, his case is... well, a lot of nothing.

indeed. i have said as much... my issue with spiffeh largely comes down to the fact that i don't like his interactions with the people i think are most likely to be scum. you know, this supposed interaction analysis that i haven't been doing, but i see you're glossing over that because it would kind of ruin your point

the funny thing is, i'm pretty sure you're town. your tinfoil theory about me is pretty bad, but i'm not sensing that you're trying to make up bullshit. it looks like you just genuinely believe you're on to something here

[zMuffinMan]

Spring I'm not done with Day 2

ill give someone 10:1 odds that kmd never catches up on the game

any takers

[zMuffinMan]

DrippingGoofball (4)

L-2!

:

SpyreX, zMuffinMan, Fate, springlullaby

Spiffeh (3):

Lady Lambdadelta, dramonic, Kmd4390

Lady Lambdadelta (2):

DrippingGoofball, Spiffeh

dramonic (1):

iraonavp

10 alive, 6 to lynch, (expired on 2016-08-28 11:00:00)

note: DGB technically L-1 with the fate vote

[zMuffinMan]

my spyrex theory relied a bit on him being the one that caused the "???" and him knowing that was going to be the case in the votecount (which is apparently wrong), as well as the fact that i found it odd that he was being coy about what he knew and i couldn't see a reason he'd keep it hidden as town (not so big a deal but in conjunction with the "???" thing i thought i was onto something)

[zMuffinMan]

fate literally claimed responsibility for the ??? so i don't know what you're talking about with believing it

and yes, if i had information that was better made public i would share it. do you claim miller when your roll miller? would you claim the number of scum in the game if the mod told you? this isn't a difficult concept

[zMuffinMan]

SPYREX obviously isn't a miller...

yes, i am aware. miller was just an example of another role that should be claiming information. another example was if you know the amount of scum in a game. another example would be claiming information you know about voting shenanigans in a game with no votecounts...

but as i originally said about it, the way he did it ("let's see what shenanigans there are") made me think he knew all about the ??? on him d1 before it happened (or rather, that he was expecting that in particular) and i thought he was using it as a way to make himself seem town (e.g. "oh, i can't possibly be scum, look at that mysterious ??? that nobody is going to claim because it's a scum role and scum are doing something to town-me!") but given fate claimed responsibility for it, i threw that theory out the window

anyway, if dram's vote was actually blocked, then dgb is still l-1

[zMuffinMan]

Also fyi in a game with no vote counts when a mysterious vote shows up on my wagon and no one wants to fess up maybe, just mane you can take the omg not same I'll spyrex town and choke on it.

this is what i'm referring to when i say i thought he was using it to make himself look town

[zMuffinMan]

but again, doesn't matter, since this was reliant on a theory that's just blatantly wrong anyway

[zMuffinMan]

if dgb's town, then a fair few things about this game don't make much sense

too tired to care right now, though

[zMuffinMan]

is anyone opposed to a mass claim today? we should probably mass claim today

[zMuffinMan]

Not vig. I'm confirmable though (role, not alignment) and definitely a traditional role that has nothing to do with votes.

by the way, if we aren't mass-claiming, i want to talk about this

because this claim of something that's both "confirmable" and a traditional role was brought up as a reason to think dgb was telling the truth yesterday

because a large part of at least spyrex's reason for thinking dgb was scum was that her role didn't fit in the setup

[zMuffinMan]

oh and i'd rather not have a quick day today if it can be helped. i want to go back and actually look at how d2 played out when i have some time

can everyone (or at least the people who haven't claimed) say whether or not they're fine with a mass claim? obviously i am

[zMuffinMan]

i doubt lld is scum

[zMuffinMan]

i doubt the interactions between lld and dgb d1 re kanye were scum theatre and i don't put much stock in fate's analysis of dgb's play at the end of yesterday, given her goal was most likely to create as much wifom as possible before she went down

i think the people who look worst from overall interactions with dgb are kmd and iraon

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, you spent all of d1 pushing a policy lynch and i actually don't remember much else you've done this game so yeah... i think i can justifiably say your posts have been pretty shit, regardless of whether or not your thoughts align with my own right now

[zMuffinMan]

this was the height of the spiffeh wagon, btw

Spiffeh (4):

Lady Lambdadelta, Fate, dramonic, Kmd4390

this was technically L-1 before fate unvoted 3 hours later (no posts between the point kmd voted and fate unvoted). dgb didn't post at all during the time between the first vote and the last so it's hard to really gauge what it means about spiffeh, but if spiffeh is town then scum were trying to push that lynch through over dgb's

i've kinda been lazy this day phase but i will prob do some reading tomorrow when i get home from work. i want to shore up the reads i'm less certain about but i am probably going to end up voting kmd today

[zMuffinMan]

Refer to my last concerning him

what? you never actually had a concern, you've just made assertions that don't take anything going on in the game into account

why do you want a massclaim muffin?

there's no town power i could conceivably see fitting in this game that would be better off being hidden at this point, and having the setup locked down makes it easier to figure out what does or doesn't make sense. there's still at least one (possibly two, if they're unrelated) voting shenanigans that haven't been accounted for

[zMuffinMan]

mass claim doesn't *really* matter btw, i just don't think it's going to help scum any more than it's going to help town

by the bye, if you're so willing to vote me

or

kmd then why not kmd, who multiple people have expressed suspicion of?

[zMuffinMan]

yes, strong powers that have achieved nothing in four days and three nights

that seems likely

[zMuffinMan]

I mean we could have like an investigative with just one living innoncent result or even like a tracker or watcher who just hasn't gotten useful info. Just a couple of examples. And I'm not in any way softing that that's me or denying it. Just throwing it out there as an example.

tbh, i'd lynch anyone who claimed anything like that with no useful results after this many nights - especially if they claim cop after the dgb stuff. but hey, i'm also of the opinion that some slot-that's-never-going-to-die-claiming-a-super-awesome-PR-that-makes-scum-want-to-kill-them dying is GOOD for the game - i want scum to get rid of lynch-bait and i don't really care that it's possible they could be of some use at some point if they keep their role hidden - they've had more than enough time to be useful already

but again, i'm not so concerned with a mass claim happening that i really care. it was a suggestion because i think it would do more good than potential harm and locking down claims makes the game easier overall; there's no last-minute "but wait guys, look at this super-awesome-totally-not-a-fake-claim role i'm claiming!" shit that so often let's scum get away with murder (literally). if it doesn't happen, then so be it, it's not so big a deal that i'm going to whine about it

atm i'm more concerned with how little fucking content is being produced in this game

spiffeh's been absent since basically the end of yesterday and i don't know if i should be at all surprised that he made promises to do reading and hasn't followed up

spring hadn't posted in about 11 RL days (yes, 11, i'm not even exaggerating, and even taking into account the night phase, that's a ridiculous length of time) and rocks up to drop an awful vote then probably disappear for another few days

dram is doing the same thing he's done for 4 game days now (starts with n, ends with g and rhymes with... i actually can't think of anything that rhymes with "nothing" now so get back to me on this). iraon's posting even LESS than dram and seems to have decided that rather than do anything useful he's going to let fate be his shepherd. and kmd is kmd is kmd

lld's absence is at least understandable but it isn't exactly moving the game forward either

fate looked like he was trying to drive the game forward but hasn't been around much since the beginning of the day

and i know i haven't exactly been the most active player this day phase, either, but i've at least been trying to bring up talking points and discuss things

the game is stagnating. and whoever's town here (especially among dram/iraon/spiffeh/kmd) should probably start giving more of a shit than they currently do. i'm going to be pretty fucking disappointed if scum win off the back of town being useless

[zMuffinMan]

actually i meant to delete my complaints about the gamestate because it's probably harsher than i meant it to be, but i hit submit instead so meh

[zMuffinMan]

realistically speaking, i think the odds of LLD being scum are low and the wagon on her feels lazy. i could be wrong, but i doubt it

like the entirety of page 15 would have to be some really well-done scum theatre for that to be the case (i do not, for example, believe that dgb knew what LLD's role did before the exchange between 360 and 363)

and i don't really think that LLD-scum decided she'd start yesterday bussing dgb, veer off onto spiffeh then end the day back on dgb - at the very least, this doesn't fit my impression of how she plays as scum

[zMuffinMan]

Vote: KMD

DGB's only real mentions of KMD were very early on in the game (a vote followed by nothing) and then last-minute mentions when she was throwing out reads at the end of yesterday

on KMD's end, early on the only real mention of dgb is in 237 and outside of that his interactions with her mostly involve his defense of her yesterday

i don't think scum wanted to bus yesterday; at the very least, i think they were planning on letting dgb live at least another day and kmd's play pretty much fits that mold. and i didn't really like how a couple times he brought up other people looking bad for how they reacted to dgb's claim (it looked like his primary reason for voting spiffeh, for instance) as well as subtle nudges about how dgb's role was likely town (as opposed to some of the people who were taking rather hard stances on the issue)

[zMuffinMan]

actually, i wanna break down my feelings about 894. this post is a whole lot of words but it's saying very little and i don't think what little it does say is good

the line about DGB's flavour is one i don't think town feels the need to mention. it looks more like scum trying to hint that this is something we should remember when we're accusing dgb rather than something town thinks is a good point to bring up

the line to fate about voting spiffeh looks like a last-ditch effort at getting the person with the most sway (in terms of voting power) to get off his buddy

and ultimately i came out of this post not knowing anything about more about what his reads were, so while he mentions a lot of players and the post is a relatively long one, that's... basically it. lots of words, but not much in the way of content

[zMuffinMan]

tbh even if everyone agreed to it, there's probably not even enough time left in this day phase for a mass claim to actually happen anyway, given the posting rate of certain players

[zMuffinMan]

current (LLD technically L-1, though)

Lady Lambdadelta (3)

L-2!

:

Fate, Spiffeh, iraonavp

zMuffinMan (1):

springlullaby

Kmd4390 (1):

zMuffinMan

Not Voting (3):

Lady Lambdadelta, Kmd4390, dramonic

8 alive, 5 to lynch, (expired on 2016-09-10 17:00:00)

[zMuffinMan]

there's no investigative claim in the game id trust that both has no useful results to speak of and didn't chime in on the validity of dgb's claim but that doesn't equate to "i want to lynch the strongest claims"

[zMuffinMan]

I'm torn between voting Fate or KMD...

What you at Muffin?

i don't really think fate is scum

why do you think he is?

[zMuffinMan]

why do you think me asking for a mass claim should be "ringing alarm bells"? outside of the fact that i prefer earlier mass claims than most people (see, for example, literally any game of mine where i'm town and live past day three, or hey, sometimes even earlier than that), what exactly do you think my grand plan here would be as scum?

"hey let's mass claim"
"no"
"oh, drats, didn't take that into account. plan foiled"
?

[zMuffinMan]

why do you think kmd is town

[zMuffinMan]

Does anyone care to actually interact with me? I am right here...

why do you need people to interact with you to do stuff? i mean, you could talk about your reads or what you think of your wagon or what your favourite colour is or how your day was or pretty much anything without people asking you for it

i mean, your primary scum read seems to be spiffeh but the only stuff you've really said about him is with regards to his d2 posts about dgb's claim

The last time I had roleblocker as a role as town, I targeted a VT claim N1 and stuck with that strategy. That was basically my logic here. Stay out of the way until late in the game.

i could see a town roleblocker thinking they didn't want to get in the way of power roles. but there's a number of people who'd already claimed their roles before the end of yesterday and you apparently still chose not to use it last night. why?

[zMuffinMan]

note that Muffinz' justification for him wanting massclaim is "I like massclaim early" which is like the dumbest reason ever.

no, that wasn't my "justification" for it - that was me commenting on your whole "this should be ringing alarm bells" thing. i *have* actually justified it, but you seem to have either not read those parts or you're pretending you haven't. in either case, my question still stands: what exactly do you think my grand plan as scum here was? because it's not like i can force a mass claim and it's not like i've tried to, so what? i'm scum who's looking for a "road map" and i just didn't think that maybe people would be against the idea? or am i scum for even thinking a mass claim would be beneficial? because if the latter, then you're wrong on every level you could possibly be wrong on, but since this is mostly a theory point, i don't really care to go into it at this stage of the game

[zMuffinMan]

yeah like every claim in this game has been that (fate, spyrex, lld and iraon for starters)

[zMuffinMan]

iraon claimed some vote-blocking role that isn't strictly negative utility i guess but id probably have thrown a block on him anyway

lld claimed 1-shot, essentially vt

spyrex claimed his role yesterday

fate claimed his role, too

[zMuffinMan]

I actually think that's a really strong point. Do you disagree?

yeah, and i think i already talked about why

the only thing that actually bothers me about spiffeh is how little effort he's been putting into the game, and i know he's been on site and posting elsewhere consistently for the entire day phase

[zMuffinMan]

actually i dont think fate fully claimed i suppose but he's a double voter apparently

[zMuffinMan]

what actually are your reads?

[zMuffinMan]

why is iraon town?

[zMuffinMan]

Kmd4390 (3)

L-2!

:

zMuffinMan, dramonic, springlullaby

Lady Lambdadelta (3)

L-2!

:

Fate x 2, Spiffeh

Spiffeh (1):

Kmd4390

dramonic (1):

iraonavp

Not Voting (1):

Lady Lambdadelta

8 alive, 5 to lynch, (expired on 2016-09-10 17:00:00)

this is what the current wagons look like, btw

and the deadline is 8 hours from now

[zMuffinMan]

what does iraon's scum meta look like?

Let me ask this. Why would scum me sit on my Spiff vote rather than give some "you guys suck but this close to deadline it's all I can do" post and vote LLD? Unless you think LLD and I are both scum but I don't think most people are really pushing that at all.

im going to ignore the obvious "because it allows you to make that argument" angle and say you don't really have much choice in the matter. you can contradict your previous read i guess and perhaps no one would bat an eyelid, but if she's town that buys you at most another day IF she gets hammered before anyone gets cold feet (which you saw happen yesterday with the spiffeh wagon after you voted spiffeh)

let's reverse that argument: if you're town and you really believe spiffeh is scum, why aren't you doing anything to get that lynch happening? because voting him and saying nothing about him until i prompted you about it doesn't generally make a wagon happen

[zMuffinMan]

listen to what? you haven't even said anything about him bar that one thing you said about him yesterday

[zMuffinMan]

deadline's in 7 hours, i'm gonna sleep but i'll probably be awake in 6 hours to do stuff if game is still open

[zMuffinMan]

tbh i could see spiffeh being scum who's avoiding the thread, i guess

but i don't really think kmd is town

id probably be fine if it came down to kmd/spiffeh as competing wagons

[zMuffinMan]

with every coming day, i regret ever calling dram dumb for wanting to policy lynch you d1 - it should have happened in this game and it should probably happen in every game

in related news, why the fuck is fate still alive and why is dram dead? dram wasn't even doing anything this game

that marks the second night in a row that scum have made a relatively dumb kill and left alive a claimed double-voter and a claimed vote-blocker

[zMuffinMan]

{ iraon, spiffeh, spring }

this is where im thinking the scum team most likely is atm, but i want to go back and do some reading

im debating whether a no lynch today is even worthwhile

[zMuffinMan]

though if fate is actually scum a no lynch gives him an autowin here

but i think the game is pretty fucked if fate's scum and cupcake gave him a double-vote that persists in xylo situations so meh

[zMuffinMan]

wat

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin, why Fate scum makes this game fucked? If there 2 scums left, it's lylo right now. Mislynch today = 4 alive, 2 scum tomorrow. So yeah, what does it change that Fate is scum or not?

... 2:2 is a scum win (at least in a normal game, it's possible that cupcake has some non-standard scum win-con but "50% of the players alive" is pretty standard and i'm just going to assume that's the case here as well)

[zMuffinMan]

because he has two votes and other people don't...

am i the one that's confused here or are you the one that's confused here

[zMuffinMan]

do you not understand how the game of mafia works?

[zMuffinMan]

let's break it down with simple maths

how many votes does it take to lynch someone with 5 alive? how many with 6 alive? how many votes does a scum team with a double voter have?

[zMuffinMan]

Explain it step by step for me why Fate being scum make it worse for town right now.

... are you serious? are you saying you don't understand how a double-vote works or you don't understand how a scum-controlled double-vote would make things worse for town?

Are you trying to say that Fate can't be scum because he is a double voter?
Or that Fate is scum because he is a double voter?

it should be fairly obvious from the scum pool i gave that i don't think fate is scum. it has very little to do with his role

LLD's fierce tunnel on me two days ago was classic scum!LLD

She knows she has to come in on something swinging (just like she did with kanye) and continues to get overlooked because of her "strong stance"

@MUFFIN SHE DID THAT SAME SHIT TO TOWN!YOU IN PYP SO YOU NOT BEING SKETCHED OUT BY HER IS A HUGE FUCKING RED FLAG

that's not how i'd describe what she did in pyp (and that's a really vague blanket statement anyway). what specifically is "classic scum!LLD" here?

[zMuffinMan]

crabbypaca (sic), VT

[zMuffinMan]

It's safer to have me dead then make a WIFOM kill to "throw me off my scent"

pretty much this

dram looks like a kill designed to not upset the status quo

[zMuffinMan]

In PYP she basically painted everything you did in a scummy light and refused to consider anything you did to possibly come from town

Because she was scum pushing for a mislynch

She did the exact same thing in this game with her absurd push on me

Because she was scum pushing for a mislynch

no, what actually happened in PYP was that she sat on me complaining that i'm scum and then briefly tried to interact with me, asking me to convince her that greyice was scum, then went back into lurk-and-complain-that-muffin-is-scummy mode. there was no "absurd push" - she never pushed me for anything i actually did (outside of maybe the fact that i called her early posting empty?) and even that wasn't a strong push so much as a pleading-with-others-to-vote-me thing

the similarities you're drawing are surface level

[zMuffinMan]

your face is

[zMuffinMan]

i might tbh

but then if i were scum with dgb, that fake-claim shit is something i would have shouted down and not allowed to happen (it pretty much violates all my philosophies about playing scum), so

[zMuffinMan]

Muffin please explain why you are townreading LLD

i talked about this a bit yesterday

what do you think of her interactions with dgb? including d1 around the kanye stuff

[zMuffinMan]

yeah, doesn't seem to have worked though, since it looks like it caught your attention

plan foiled

[zMuffinMan]

briefly skimmed recent pages

fyi, spiffeh, iraon is likely voteless today due to dram (and he knows this) so it's not like he could hammer anyone if he wanted to

[zMuffinMan]

right. well that goes to show how much im reading

ill be around in a few hours after i do my morning work stuff

[zMuffinMan]

btw technically the only possible scum teams right now involve me + spiffeh or lld + someone unless im looking at it wrong

which screws my view of the gamestate but whatever

[zMuffinMan]

Who are your scumreads.

it's not really about reads at this point

LLD was L-1 and neither you or iraon hammered
spiffeh's currently L-2 and fate hasn't hammered

it quite literally has to be LLD + one of you/iraon/spiffeh

and i doubt spiffeh + LLD is a thing

anyway,

Vote: LLD

[zMuffinMan]

i mean, i don't need to put in effort to get reads... lld is practically confirmed scum by poe

[zMuffinMan]

same goes for spiffeh actually since fate didn't hammer him

so the idea that there's some ulterior motive behind wanting to lynch someone who's confirmed scum from your pov is moronic

[zMuffinMan]

IF I'M SCUM WHY DO I HAMMER DGB INSTEAD OF LETTING THE INACTIVITY MEAN SHE LIVES?

IF I'M SCUM WHY DON'T I HIDE MY ABILITY TO USE IT ON A DAY LIkE THIS, FATE?

you hammering dgb doesn't mean a lot. best case scenario where you don't hammer her, she lives another day and the game goes to odd numbers. she dies the next day anyway and you look worse for not being on her. on the other hand, hammering her allows you to argue this as though it's a point for why you're town

as far as why you used your ability day one, i doubt cupcake would have given you an all-game ability that powerful - it likely has a day one modifier (or is limited in some other way that wouldn't allow you to use it later - e.g. "can't be used with less than X players alive")

[zMuffinMan]

THIS IS AN ACTUAL SCUM SLIP.

HE KNOWS HE'S GOING TO wIN WHEN I DIE.

LOOK AT THIS CHEEKY FUCKER,, FATE. COME ON.

LOOK AT THIS CHEEKY SCUM FUCK FATE.

SERIOUSLY LOOK WHAT HE JUST SAID.

THAT IS NOT HOW A TOWNIE RESPONDS TO THAT STATEMENT.

IT'S HOW AN INDIGNANT SCUM RESPoNDS.

eh, probably shouldn't have let this live as long as i did and i'm disappointed with myself for ignoring it all game

this kind of stretching for any sort of leverage she can find isn't a town trait - it's literally just verbal vomit in hopes of obfuscating things

[zMuffinMan]

why do you think lld is town?

[zMuffinMan]

the fact that lld wasn't hammered

[zMuffinMan]

is that directed at me?

i actually wrote something last night about it but i guess i never posted it here (it's probably still open in a tab on my computer at home)

the short answer is that i haven't looked at lld interactions but it's probably iraon from dgb interactions

[zMuffinMan]

like at this point, the only real possible combinations on the table are spiffeh-me, lld-spiffeh, lld-iraon, lld-spring, lld-me

any other combination and the game would be over now

i doubt lld-spiffeh is a thing

of the two most likely pairings (lld-iraon, lld-spring), there's a lot more stuff that points to the former than the latter

i haven't actually gone back to check but i can't remember any major interactions between iraon and lld and iraon's interactions with dgb are garbage

[zMuffinMan]

IF I'M SCUM WHY DO I HAMMER DGB INSTEAD OF LETTING THE INACTIVITY MEAN SHE LIVES?

IF I'M SCUM WHY DON'T I HIDE MY ABILITY TO USE IT ON A DAY LIkE THIS, FATE?

you hammering dgb doesn't mean a lot. best case scenario where you don't hammer her, she lives another day and the game goes to odd numbers. she dies the next day anyway and you look worse for not being on her. on the other hand, hammering her allows you to argue this as though it's a point for why you're town

as far as why you used your ability day one, i doubt cupcake would have given you an all-game ability that powerful - it likely has a day one modifier (or is limited in some other way that wouldn't allow you to use it later - e.g. "can't be used with less than X players alive")

[zMuffinMan]

when was dramonic "shaky" about me? last he said about his reads, he agreed with my own (that the most likely scum were kmd and iraon) and the fact is, he clearly used his a ability on iraon every day so

[zMuffinMan]

iraone literally needed to take out dram to win

[zMuffinMan]

why do you think lld is town?

Because of executing kayneknowsbest, and because Spiffeh is scum-aligned.

also loling at lld trying to call stuff like this town posting

[zMuffinMan]

You think I, LLD, Alexis Rice, would let IRAO CONTrOL WHO THE FUCK I KILL?

i dont think you let him control the kill; i do think it played a factor in the decision, though

[zMuffinMan]

Who kills Dramonic? The person who Dramonic was 100% confident was town, or the people with whom Dramonic has been shaky with.

this line is way over-selling dram's perspective on you, btw. nowhere did he state anywhere NEAR 100% confidence you were town and nowhere was he shaky on me or spiffeh, really. he voted spiffeh once and the reason for it suggested he was pretty certain spiffeh was town (literally, "you will find out i'm town one way or another", which does not suggest a scum read at all) and he never really mentioned me at all outside of agreeing with my reads and mocking me for not wanting to policy lynch iraon d1

otoh he was screwing with iraon's ability to contribute to the game in pretty much any meaningful way; what scum team that doesn't involve iraon has any real reason to kill dram?

i suppose the flipside of this is that fate (and spiffeh) could have been conceived as bigger threats to a lld-iraon scum team? but that's arguable given you'd have to hope that killing fate over dram wouldn't make dram reconsider his read on you and screw over any plan you might have had of bussing iraon. which, by the way, i don't think you had any intention of doing. i don't think you like bussing in general and i think you try to avoid it as much as you possibly can. distancing? sure. but flat-out bussing, nah. and before you say something along the lines of "explain dgb then", i really don't think you had a choice at that point. your options were to lurk til the deadline; ok, dgb survives another day, town loses literally nothing (the game would just go to odd numbers) and you look even worse after a dgb lynch... i dont think you set out to bus her and i think when she started looking like she was about to be lynched, you switched gears and tried to flip it on spiffeh instead

[zMuffinMan]

Does scum really use one of the most powerful abilities in the game, the ability to half someone's lynch threshold for a day on day 1 to lynch someone that no one else wanted to lynch? and draw attention to themselves as a result? It doesn't make SENSE. DGB wasn't in danger of being lynched. I wasn't in danger of being lynched. If you think I'm scum, who was I protecting? What was my motivation?

i do not for one second believe that cupcake would have allowed an ability like that to persist in lylo. the fact that you're even questioning whether fate has a double-vote still is evidence of this - if cupcake were going to let you use an ability like that in lylo, why would you even for one second believe fate wouldn't let a double-vote persist to lylo? so this whole "why would i use it d1?" spiel seems like a load of horseshit - you clearly would not have been able to use it in lylo, so you clearly had some sort of limitation on it

but ignoring that, kanye was one of the most obviously town people in the game at the point you were executing him... if you were going to execute anyone at the point in the game you did to further scum's wincon, he was the obvious choice if you thought you could get away with it. and i think you did think you could get away with it, which is why you did it. likely you had a d1 modifier, or some limitation on when you could use it relative to the numbers of the game anyway

i suppose it also helps that kanye WAS suspicious of dgb, even if she wasn't in any immediate danger of being lynched

[zMuffinMan]

meh, pretty much just waiting on fate to decide what to do

fate, it pretty much comes down to, do you think it's spiffeh and me? i wouldn't hold your breathe waiting for lld, iraon or spring to produce something that's going to sway you if you've already read our ISOs

so if you do think it's spiffeh and me, why?

if you don't, vote lld

[zMuffinMan]

do you know what "false dichotomy" means?

[zMuffinMan]

the ??? doesn't clear you-LLD of being a team, rofl

there's a plethora of possible explanations that involve you-LLD - there could be a role double-up, it could be factional, it might be a result of a mechanic we don't know about, it might even just be a red herring cupcake threw into the game for shits and giggles

[zMuffinMan]

those aren't "edge possibilities" either. like, you were literally just in a game where you saw a bunch of role double-ups, so you're bullshitting if you're trying to suggest that's an "edge possibility"

[zMuffinMan]

no i mean role double-ups as in cop-double-voter, neighbouriser-vig, bodyguard-flavour-cop, etc

there's literally no reason, for example, LLD couldn't have a role double-up if it's as useless an ability as you're suggesting it is

[zMuffinMan]

like, realistically, if all it did was cover up names, then what even is the point of revealing its existence? why would scum even use it at all if it's just a standard ability that a lone scum player has without any other abilities?

this is a rhetorical question, by the way, because i know you don't have a good answer for this

[zMuffinMan]

it is somewhat ironic that you are trying to obscure things by bringing up the ???

[zMuffinMan]

you know if i were scum and you were obscuring my lies, that would mean you're helping me, right?

i'm sure that was meant to be some witty comeback in your head but it really isn't

[zMuffinMan]

Because it makes people worry and confused about the votecounts, and allows you to claim it as a negative utility compulsive town-aligned role.

oh, yes, everyone in this game was so very confused about the effects of it. of that role we supposedly have, but didn't claim for some reason... gee, what were we thinking?

There is a reason, that's stupid and I have never seen it before except for in that strange setup.

role double-ups literally happen all the time and while i know you have to try and throw whatever bullshit out you can, you're fighting an uphill battle if you're going to try continue peddling this shit