Gistou (Over!)
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Tim Goon
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Tim
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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In post 32, BBmolla wrote:In post 3, mastin2 wrote:Each faction, if possessing a non-human race, has a one-shot ability to recruit ato their faction.human. This ability will fail if more than one faction attempts this on the same target. This ability does not work on all humans. Regardless of success or failure, this ability is used up once activated. (The recruiter will be informed if they fail, but not the reason why.) In short, only the unluckiest of humans will get culled. It can happen, though, so be cautious!Emphasis "human"-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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I do. Well I did.In post 54, BBmolla wrote:LMFAO wHo cAREAS HAHA Xd
There's at least 3 factions that have a 1-shot recruiting ability, and the cult probably is multiple shot but I can't imagine them not being able to recruit humans.
Do Bulletproofs claim so their role becomes worthless? No, because that's stupid.
But by all means, continue to troll. Maybe more sods like Expedience will buy that-
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Tim Goon
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Do you have any experience playing with BBmolla? He's not bad town. you can say maybe he's performed badly as town sometimes, but he isn't bad town. 2ndly, he has a carefree attitude as all alignments really. And he's done speculative plays before as scum before as well.In post 68, Expedience wrote: Okay, but how does that make BBMolla scum rather than just bad town?
@Bbmolla: Perhaps you don't have the same kind of "how to play a role" sense as I do, but that kind of play really stretches my limits of credulity. In any case my metric for scumminess won't be defined as just that, so if your day play is satisfactory it will do a lot to help your claim-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Butting in to say this seems cut and dry. And after reading previous interactions, it's like a mountain was made out of a molehill and that's squarely on you House.In post 273, Titus wrote:
Frozen cannot fake that type of emotion as scum. Never seen it. People thought she did in NY 191 but nope.In post 270, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote: Titus your a weird player.I appreciate your town read though we need to talk about how you did this if its ok with you. I'm really interested to know.
~Ice
p-edit: If it reads like a justification, that your misinterpretation. Getting up in Titus' grill for "form" can't even be classified as nit picking; it's just not even worth mentioning at all. Unless for some reason you think that's scummy-
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Tim Goon
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skimming the rest, but can Luna brain? Is it ok if I just not take the time to argue with her over something she's clearly in the wrong with and can hardly articulate? If anyone knows how to read her, I'm happily defer to you, whoever you are.
But I'll leave her with the exercise of finding where I directly talked about probabilities or "percentages", to a level of distraction that wasn't accompanied by a significant opinion or rational discourse-
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Tim Goon
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How are those, Post 53 and Post 66, immediate visceral reactions? My actual immediate visceral reaction was the following:In post 564, Heartless wrote:
On Tim, the scum read is mostly tonal based. Nothing they're saying istechnicallyuntrue, Molla likely did make a suboptimal play, but I think the aggression in Post 53 and Post 66 is slightly overwrought and they don't really feel appropriate as an immediate visceral reaction to Molla's claim. The fact that Antihero had the same feeling independently in his read-through gives me a little more confidence in my own intuition. (I'm also not a fan of the tone of Post 449, though I can't yet put my finger on exactly why.
I would call the couple of posts that transpired between "context"In post 42, Tim wrote:/confirm
BB any particular reason you felt the need to voluntarily take yourself out of the can't-be-converted pool of people.
As for 449 I'm pretty sure my absolute disdain for luna which I was going to post crept in there, so maybe more invective is present than intended. But my priority at the time was to make that dialogue stop.
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In that case against Expedience (which I ought to look over a couple more times) that first quote of me was indeed talking about Wayward Thinker and not BBm. Storm, despite being drunk when you wrote that, were you also drunk when you thought it up? (Asking to asses your state of mind at the time, not slighting the validity of the case).
I need to look over wayward thinker later posts.
I'm probably the nth caller at this point for Titus to explain why she thinks TTH is tryharding
Molla could you flesh out your reads a bit or are the scum reads of C+A and rb not more involved than "bad posts" gut reaction-
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Tim Goon
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Again, it's not like those posts (or my last) took place in a vacuum. Perceiving BBm to be willfully ignorant and then dismissive frustrated me. The posts that came before that that were part of the same conversation weren't particularly overaggressive, were they? It just doesn't seem like you took into account BBm's own tone and manner of his posts or thought of an alternative answer for "hmm, why would Tim escalate his tone here?" besides "scummy!". For the sake of completion if I perceive you to be misrepresenting me, the tone of my next post will be prone to be heightened above neutral (and honestly, I restrained myself last post)In post 715, Heartless wrote:Spoiler:
"Immediate" was bad word choice, but my point was that it feels overaggressive for the conversation taking place.
(This post does too, by the way.)-
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Tim Goon
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Ok Heartless I think I'm going to have to address you separately. Not least of all because one of you called me a shitlord and well don't expect me to just be ok with that after I did nothing to warrant it. Atm I assume it was TTH.
Anti at what point did you think the conversation should have ended. Which Molla post?
I'm still awaiting a proper reply to my gripes with TTH's tonal read.-
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Tim Goon
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to add upon this, I have at least some confidence that this will be sorted by tomorrow one way or another. As you can see, this hasn't gone unnoticedIn post 1318, Heartless wrote:
i have a couple ideas from a game-design standpoint but i dont rly want to go into them right nowIn post 1314, Toogeloo wrote:This is where confusion starts to set in. If there is more than one town faction, then for what reason would they be a threat to each other, and why not just be one town all together, or can they only win when the other town factions are eliminated as well since there seems to be a "war" element to the game too?-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Vote: Wayward Thinker
After reading over that iso fully, I think my vote is best placed here. (well maybe not when A50 is right there)
After the early game posts from LQ which I think were scummy, there are even more gripes I have with the push on Rb and the way the nosferatu read was handled.
Post 492 develops it (along with less than reasonable town reads imo) while post 500 expands on it with a reason that wouldn't be considered scummy (it's town's job to push their opinions, how else are they going to convince people to lynch someone they think is scum?). But that's as far as it gets. Already in post 501 it slowly dissolves, and I don't see why it should at that point. Nosferatu's post theredoeslook pretty gross at first blush. The exchange that can be read in full in post 538 between C+A and WT is bizarre to say the least, and to say more, it looks like a series of dodges on questions about the Nosferatu read that make absolutely 0 sense (Especially, "Unsure. I think it will be more telling with a few flips." ) but the Nosferatu read which is still supposedly being reevaluated doesn't resurface until post 928, in which there's no indication any additional thought was put into it.
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As for the Rb push, firstly, the original reasons mentioned in post 629 for the vote are not intrinsically scummy. Those percentages are plenty obnoxious but not scummy. Sheeping people is par for the course of both alignments. But those reasons cease to hold value after TW retcons them into a pressure vote due to a behavior not exhibited by the known meta of either town!rb or scum!rb. I can just barely see that the natural pressure of being scum could make someone act out (but then again, rb didn't in his scum game with WT), but that's in a vacuum. As was pointed out, Rb was antagonizing Luna (so maybe the better question to ask was, "does rb fuck around with a specific player as scum?") but that's entirely lost on WT. That's pretty clear from post 918, which also happens to contain both "We scum read you" and "we voted for pressure" (and a misrep involving skepticism). That's not how it works, that's not how any of this works!
Meanwhile one of the reads in 928 amounts to an OMGUS against Salt Squad when their pushback was clearly justified
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@Cephir: I'm going at my own pace, and I think a reasonable one for the course of 2 days time, but its impossible for me to tackle everything at once and I did leave what amounted to post-it notes to other issues that (one of which I am addressing in this post) I wanted to get to . I chose to focus on Heartless because at the time their only agreed scum read was me, and as far as scum reads go it was both weak and yet most of their focus up until then. I'm not convinced it came from an honest town perspective, and still want to continue the dialogue.
Speaking of, I'm still interested in TTH's response.
@pedit: It's not even necessarily a PGO claim, but yes, the claim was strictly null-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Your faction is synonymous with your wincon. To clarify, did you mean that either everyone in your hood has the same exact wincon (part of the same faction) which is clearly not an individual humans one, or else members will have a different wincon that is necessarily a scum one?In post 1709, Luna Fox wrote:Everyone in the neighborhood knows that we're all either the same faction, but there might be scum in it (i read this part late), what i slipped in was my ROLE.-
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Tim Goon
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In post 629, Wayward Thinker wrote:We think we will go with a vote on rb for now.
VOTE: RB
This vote is placed for a twofold reason. The first is the constant on the percentages. Planning ahead and running the numbers pings me as scummy
The second is the general sheeping of opinions.
~Suz
p-edit, goodness gracious everyone is posting so fast.
Uh-Huh.In post 1434, Wayward Thinker wrote:
It clearly is a bad vote cuz your reason sucks.In post 1198, KuroiXHF wrote:You can read me however you like, but don't call it a bad vote when it's not, considering the early stage of day one.
Why is sheeping such a bad thing? Do you think Almost is Town?
VOTE: KuroiXHF-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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That reason was coupled with a meta reason. Scum can fake confidence easily enough, especially when voting for someone like Kuroi. It's also expected scum "do something". "doing something" isn't a good reason to townread anyone. Is that the extent of your townread? Is there nothing more specific about what they did that you found town?-
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Tim Goon
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Ok Expedience, I can certainly respect your reasoning (thought I completely disagree that it should be strong at all) but I do think at the very least your page 3 read means you are capable of judging WT by their content in them (although for that case, I believe incorrectly). I would challenge you to read and judge the content of WT by its implications within this game, unless you truly think WT's confidence level will always outweigh what WT actually says-
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Tim Goon
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It's nice to see Dram be less snarky and more game-y. My strongest town read now.
Your reservations on either of those wagons are unfounded. We've had 90 pages already; it's a given that people will wagon and swap votes more easily than not at this stage (yes, it's been like the 3rd real life day, but 90 pages is daunting). Secondly, it doesn't matter who is wagoned, because of multiball, even if the wagon is on scum, you'll still get plenty of the other scum that will jump on (and I estimate there's at least 10 in this game). These are basically the only reasons that anything "easy" would be distasteful. I know you supplement this with the quality and content of their play, but if it's that bad, who's to say that they just aren't the weakest of the scum team deservedly being wagoned (especially considering there's bound to be tons of scum)?In post 2251, RAM wrote:Meh, the wagons kinda feel like shit. Kuroi and WT both seem too fucking easy. Lemme see whose not really playing so I can see if they actually have some content to poke them about.
-Cerb
Is this post the only reason you're town reading WT? Besides what value you are assigning to starting the wagon on Kuroi (which if I remember correctly he'd already been in people's sights), this post of theirs is objectively trashy, with many of the quips being fluff and those that aren't feel twisted. A naked vote would have been more convincing.
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Tim Goon
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My only caveat to add is that I think Kuroi is a scum-lean, and have no qualms seeing him go.
While I also think copper is a fine vote, why not just vote WT? There's already a wagon on them and it seems to me you have an appreciable scum read on them. Is copper a stronger one, or did you just want to call more attention to him?-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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So... are you going to vote them? Or are you still contemplating other options?In post 2563, davesaz wrote:The reason I did that ISO was to find out why WT are being scumread, since the divide between those townreading and scumreading the slot is quite deep. I looked at 1434 (which was cited as a major reason for the scumread) and the positions taken there are pretty reasonable. If the argument about that post was that it's too narrowly focused, that might be valid, but I don't buy into the notion that this post falls short of making points. I'm not too fond of the lack of followup on the points made there, but this game is already an excellent example of why lack of followup isn't AI by itself.
The more telling thing IMO is that the slot's overall focus is quite narrow and they seem to be actively avoiding the main controversies in the thread. This suggests trying to fly under the radar. So while the often-referenced 1434 isn't bad in its own right, the overall pattern is scummy.
I actually think the opposite though. A narrow focus isn't of itself bad. It's difficult to make broad assessments in a 100 page game in 3 days. I certainly can't, but 1434 is just point-quote-point vomit, if you can stomach calling those "points"-
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Tim Goon
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I'm just going to steal this.In post 2862, RAM wrote:Copper, since you're here...thoughts on KC? Specifically regarding what I asked MathBlade about on this page?
It's actually really concerning. I checked myself to see if there was ever a time Kuroi was mentioned by Celt and in what context. And there was never a single one. I suppose it could be possible that Kuroi being a scum read was one of those internal reads that you sort of hold to yourself, but even if so, Celt did not correct what looks like an inconsistency when it was directly pointed out. So yeah, it seems to me she muddled her (fake) reads-
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Tim Goon
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Also I know this is from a while back, but no retreats list keeps popping up and I've realized that these two together here is sus to me if he was following the game so far.In post 2349, No Retreat wrote:scum
Stormblade (Albert B. Rampage + Errantparabola + Nahdia)
Luna Fox
and everyone else is null or I don't remember anything they've done-
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Tim Goon
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I'd like to get off Kuroi's wild ride. (none of his posts have done anything to dissuade me from putting him as a scum-lean. None of them have accentuated it either)
I don't remember anything of worth happening in the last 15 pages besides the fact that certain people are applying town reads to Celt based off of 100% meta. I can only pray that people who vouch for others in this manner eat their hats when they get egg on face, which I suspect happens constantly. That kind of meta is cancerous, I really hope it hasn't metastasized on this site. [/minor rant]
So yeah where I'm at now is that I'd happily vote either Celt/WT. scum is scum after all-
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Tim Goon
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I liked you better when your vote was on WT. The only support you'd see for Titus today is BBm and maybe Wake? I don't really even understand why Titus has garnered your ire.In post 3431, MathBlade wrote:Don't have time to read all this before I go but we have more than 10 days. Vote Titus please while I am away. I hope to come back to a Titus lynch
I mean it does irk me that Titus is going to bat for WT off of a shitty post, but whatever.-
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Tim Goon
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Resignation and frustration are symptoms of being wagoned. They both are NAI to use the new lingo.
The reason I am making a big deal out of people town reading him is that if we lynch Kuroi today (which is perfectly acceptable to me), the next day I can see Dram or me not making it past tonight, and then the pressure against WT will naturally be lessened.
Also everything besides one post that Iec signed has been by me (ActionDan)-
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Tim Goon
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He never referenced me in his catchups once and I had the most material that he could argue against (if he so chose)In post 3452, Luna Fox wrote:
Catching up is replying to things that happened pages ago, and trying to get reads out of those.In post 3449, A Song of Ice and Fire wrote:so you think WT didn't scumhunt at all so far? what were they doing then in your preview. what is a catching up?
He did say works better in real time interactions.-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Because a town player would give more of a shit that their completely ridiculous premise held up. Competency has nothing to do with it when you cherrypick evidenceIn post 3534, Stormblade wrote:
I don't see how competency is related to alignment in any way, shape, or form. You'll have to spell this one out for me. I'm stupid.In post 3520, Tim wrote:And my point is that probably makes him not town
-Nahdia-
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Tim Goon
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Frankly the last 30 pages have about ~0 new information.In post 3543, davesaz wrote:Ugh, I got interrupted on page 112 and have not been able to come back since.
TBH, I don't think I'll have time to do more than skim the intervening 30 pages. Which may be what some people are doing already...-
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Tim Goon
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Refuge in audacity? I dunno, but I actively try not guess scum motivations for strange behavior, only what town ones there could be.In post 3540, dramonic wrote:I don't think as scum you challenge people to counter your metadive and then double down on it when they succeed.-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Besides the myriad times I've communicated my read of Kuroi, if it's a question of why I chose to cast this vote now, it's because the day needs to progress in a meaningful way, multiple people have basically finalized their decisions for the day, and I feel there's not much merit to be gained from staying on WT in the hopes everyone will switch back again. Much of this is implicit from both the 146 pages already in D1, and the current VC-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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Do you have the ability to recruit?In post 3970, Salt Squad wrote:I am a part of the INDIVIDUAL VAMPIRE FACTION.-
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Tim Goon
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Tim Goon
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In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8143152#p8143152]post 4520[/url], ActionDan wrote:Hi guys I'm here and...
Oh dear lord so many posts. I'm skimming still but,
What I've got is LLD is wulden, Cephir is nosferatu, in addition to Luna getting a result of Isolationist faction (w/e that is) on SS who had claimed Vampire, a bunch of couple claimed to be from the northern tribes, there's a "destroyer of worlds" in the game, and lots of people still can't tell a town factional wincon from a scum one.
I picked a hell of a game to break back into the mafia world.
I honestly am just twiddling my thumbs here and believe that WT/Celt are scummy and deserve death via their play which with the shenanigans going on is more solid to me than any of these revelations. I don't particularly think SS, Cephrir, and to a lesser extent LLD are that scummy.-
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Also Dram's death strongly seems like a 100% scum kill and who was he pushing?In post 4536, rb wrote:Flavour/role bullshit aside, I want to lynch Wayward.
Let's assume Kuroi is Town, how fucking convenient that Kuroi was counter-wagoned and WT kept getting these, 'townreads' on Day 1.
Also Salt Squad is making sense to me, I don't wanna lynch them.
That's right! WT-
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Tim Goon
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I do a little. But like. It's beeboy.
I admit I have reservations. 1) isolationist could be cult-cult and Salt joked that he wanted to be recruited before, so maybe cult obliged. 2) a 2nd individual vampire with recruiting powers is strange to me. Maybe there are multiple individual non-human races that can do that though, 3) an alternative explanation for no one dying in Luna's PT is that the scum wants to remain as hidden as possible (if there is scum there)
But previous play was town enough to me that I just don't feel strongly about it
holy cuts: All the above was @cephrir-
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