Food Fight Mafia - WHO OWNS THE SCHOOL???

[mneme]

Konichiwa, Fonz-san, and the rest of the town. I am very happy to be here.

I'm afraid I have not yet finished my read-through, but I am confident that I will be able to do so soon. I did receive an alignment (students/town), but it's possible that this was a correction that previous holder of my role did not recieve.

I am afraid that I cannot comment on the BM/Scruffs fight right now; I need to catch up first. But until then, I'll fling some

fake

food around, just to get in the spirit of the game.

tosses Natto at Scruffs
spreads Ume on some bread and beams it at BM
strawgun's a piece of Pocky at Fonz

[mneme]

Sir T wasn't scummy. Just

baka

. This means that BM wasn't distancing from anyone.

I suspect Scruffs is scum (the lunch lady is -always- scum! See the Buffy telepath ep!), but that doesn't seem to be the play today, and the details of how he claimed don't feel scummy qua scummy.

BM: are you saying your BB notes do not refresh at the beginning of the day? Have you double-checked this?

Instead, I'll

smush a

ikura sushi roll

into gorrad's hair

(ikura-maki! But it probably wouldn't be real if I called it that, despite being the same thing!)

[mneme]

I'm aparently ne-baka myself, as I failed to notice BB confirming his belief that he had a fixed number of bb notes for the whole game. But it appears to be confirmed that Skruffs (scum or not) has BB notes, as we got told that 4 had been used (presumably, Skruffs hsa 3/day, and BB has however many he has).

[mneme]

Ikura are salmon eggs, gorrad. Not all sushi are fish; the only constant is rice and nori.

I don't need to "give a reason" -- you've given us enough of them. Your OMGUS included.

sends a grape-jelly and cabbage sushi roll spinning into Gorrad's face

[mneme]

I don't need to "give a reason" -- you've given us enough of them. Your OMGUS included.

Yes, you do. If no one gave reasons, the scum could run wild and there'd be nothing to stop them. It's a game of logic, so use it![/quote]

Yay! Craplogic/reductio ad absurdium!

Note the connection between you acting scummy and my throwing food at you... Here, have another temaki!

stuffs a lutefisk and natto sushi roll down Gorrad's shirt

[mneme]

Eh. I'm happy to lynch Albert every time he pulls this crap. LAL is a useful meta for a reason. I'm willing to lose games not to deal with this crap from anyone. Though, seriously, nobody's -ever- seen Albert make a fakeclaim as scum?

All this kamikaze alpha strike nonsense is getting on my nerves. (of course, so are those saying we shouldn't "waste food" in a food fight game).

[mneme]

Komban-wa!

Hmm.

Spotlight: cicero:

(SL)
"let's vote normally and use food after we "lynch" someone" (interesting, but impractical)
"noos, don't waste limited food".
"blah, blah, immaturity"
"noos! Limited foods!"
decent reaction post
"ew, abr"
"ew, abr"
++(aimee, erg0) --(one of vitr, jdodge, jordan)
Chess with Jdodge (role related?)
{defense against abr for pairing with jdodge}
{votes abr}
{abr+waar pairing (had forgotten abr -was- waar)}
{arguing with abr}
{arguing with abr}
{arguing with abr}
{oops, noticed abr was waar}
{--ckillor}

decent reaction post
{doesn't like: jordan, skitz, pickem, PWS, bamboo}

CICERO:

{not much}
{not much}
{meta: yama, not much}
{not much; apologizes for meta}
{not much}
{attack re skruffs/sk}
{attack on fonz, doesn't like roleclaim}
{defends abr (ish)}
{lukewarm defense of abr}
{attackes lowell}
{wish, wash}

You know, I want to attack cicero -- I really do. But despite this poor showing (particularly from him, post replacement), this is seeming like more of a town profile to me.

That said the fact that under neither identity has he ever thrown food is fascinating -- and indicative. This isn't hording food; I doubt cicero has food to throw, frankly. Could such a secret be pro-town?


Still, that points toward lowellness (should probably do gorrad, but too lazy):

{tosses at nightfall}
{votes for gorrad, throws at gorrad}
{throws at skitzer}
{defense me/SirT}
{throws at skitzer}
{throws at gorrad}
{throws at gorrad}
"plenty of food left"
"what's with bm and skruffs?"
{throws two more things at skitzer}
"bm and skruffs are prob innocent"
{throws two onions at gorrad}
"bm and skruffs know each other?"
dito
dito

not a lot of content (though there were attacks along with food-throwing; nothing that -really- pops out aside from him really not liking gorrad, like cicero having never thrown food.

[mneme]

Jordan: saying a player has done something that should get them killed (when it's quite possibly true) without throwing food at them is opprotunistic? The only thing that has prevented me from alpha-striking abr is the possiblity that he might be town.

cicero: whatever. We have enough food to lynch.

[mneme]

Konichi-wa!

First, spotlight: Gorrad:

mechanics speculation, throws food
mechanics speculation
are you sure you should throw food so early?
"I don't have to start scumhunting until anybody else does"
mechanics speculation
complains about vote(food)
OMGUS against battlemage
"I dislike bandwagoning"
Mod request
weak defense of Yamahako
"bandwagoning = BAD" (craplogic)
throws food at pickem for disagreeing with him. ?
no bandwagons!
"state a reason when you throw!"
"I want logic!"
"give reasons!"
{bandwagons (throwing a bananna) sir tornado for votes}
{didn't see the food thrown at me, I think}
oops
bbl
speculation, defends scruffs
selfvotes, more mechanics speculation
complains about a vote
more speculation chitter
finishes his habit of THROWING FOOD AT PEOPLE FOR NO REASON! by throwing almost the last of his food
"fake food = scummy!"
chitter
"did scruff throw fake food?"
alphas BM (with remaining food)
believes scruff "didn't believe there would be adults in the game" ?? (I don't believe this. Students know they are allied with "the students"; apparently, non-scum non-students also know they are allied with the students)
defends scruffs
continues defending scruffs
ditto
ditto
attacks bm
complains about another food item
"trust me"
votes tss
"I don't have a post restriction"
defense
mechanics
Yeah, my PM has nothing but a name and that I'm a student (and one more thing I'm not saying yet). No win conditions, no alignment (other than student), no nothing. (goodposting. His -only- good posting)
banana at BM
speculation (probably correct) about aministration mafia
adult != mafia
castigates tar for being cadgy
claims alergy
''
claims ignorance
!connection to aimee
scruffs==town
scruffs/bm/tar speculation
chatter
breaking the setup in half?
chatter
5 bears on BM
omgus on me, sandwitch at BM
attack post on BM
more stupid reason chatter
decent attack on ABR
chatter
chatter
attacks abr
attacks abr
bb attack justifcation


In summary, he picks people he likes or dislikes, and then attacks them more or less mindlessly. Gorrad does no scumhunting, and is largley completely useless.

The only thing in his favor is him claiming "name, allergy, student, no win condition" in post 697, as was apparently true about my first PM (this was not true about my PM, but dgb presumably corrected it before I replaced in).

Was this before or after the initial goof with student win conditions was public?

[mneme]

After looking over my three player analyses, I think the most expendable of the three is lowell. Gorrad's play has been dreadful, but, unless I misread the ordering, he's shown the same town tells Sir Tornado (ie, yours truly) did. But Lowell? hasn't done anything useful at all, and there's no reason to think he's scum.

I think we have enough food left to kill lowell. And the alternative -- ABR dying by default? Not actually that bad.

throws tamago sushi roll at lowell
throws strawberry & tomato sushi roll at lowell
throws hamburger and artichoke sushi roll at lowell
(that should be all of them, but just in case) throws all remaining sushi rolls at lowell
splashes tea in lowell's eyes
stuffs wasabi up lowell's nostrills.

Jordan, I do want to win this game, regardless of metas. And while I do think LAL is an important meta that trancends individual games, ABR hasn't been shown to be lying -yet-. If I wanted to get him killed off, I'd be doing nothing, or voting for him -- not pushing yet another candidate.

[mneme]

Arigato, Goofball-kyou -- thanks for the quick update. see what one person's food can do? That was, like, 25 points from only -most- of my food.

[mneme]

Neh? It seems like Jessica's role confirm's Tar's.

Is anyone up to making a list of those involved in the quick Lowell bandwagon toward end-of-day? Given the speed of the bandwagon and the result, it seems like a very protown (or least anti-Adminafia) bw. Arigato!

[mneme]

cicero: Watashi wa baka, I'd remembered that Lowell was mafia, but forgotten the revelation that we have -two- mafias, not just one (presumably, Fonz shaded the truth or misread his role or that his role was broader than it was described to him, since as described, I think he was actually hunting the whole Soup Scum gang, not an SK).

The existence of the Soup Scum gang does make me more suspicious of BM -- if there's a mafia, there's a good chance of a GF, and one thing investigation-immune GFs love to do is get themselves investigated early. Letting us force a role claim day 1, thus getting Fonz on his side day 2, is a very sane mafia tactic (or he could be pro-town. But it's worth considering).

Still, having a list of the members of that bandwagon would be useful, particularly in this game where the mods don't do that work for us (or rather, don't show us the results).

[mneme]

Just call me "mneme-baka". Yeah, skruffs=soup scum GF, BM = Administration GF. I'm rather hoping tar didn't investigate Skruffs, as he's either the GF (= no investigation results) or he's innocent.

I don't think Tar fake claimed; I think we were cop-rich before we lost all but one of our cops. With two mafia, not at all unlikely.

Tar, assuming you have living mason buddies, please do -not- give us results unless we're about to lynch an innocent -- you can give them when they matter, or your partner can give them out if you're killed.

Oban desu

[mneme]

4-5 cops and a possibly broken player-order? If so, the game should be broken fairly shortly. While it's risky to reveal all this early, tar, I can see why you did so; it may very well break the game.

I'll note that Skruffs and Battle Mage appear next to one another in the player list. If they're both GFs, this is not a coincidence -- but I could also see Skruffs being scum and BM not (or neither being scum, but let's not go crazy here).

The obvious test of this theory is ckillor, since he sits next to Lowell and I very much doubt the Soup Mafia is just 2 people.

throws a pine-cone sushi roll at ckillor
throws a lamia sushi roll at ckillor

[mneme]

I do agree about mneme, and i think people who are ignoring the other 22 players in thegame to focus on the two players who have both been investigatd at least once AND have (apparently) pro-town actions (bb notes) are being arrogant and obnoxious.

Hai. Or do you think I'm doing this? I'm not; I'm just keeping the issue live because we've got a strong indication that being an adult is correlated with anti-town (while we have one dead pro-town adult and one dead anti-town adult, both mafia groups appear to be all or mostly adults).

Re BM -- avoiding a potential breaking strategy that matches the existing unusual evidence just because it's on-the-face-of-it unlikely appears to be very bad play. Obvously, we have to avoid epicycles and other false tests, but if we have someone scummy (ckillor) who is also sitting in a position where if positon is correlated with scumminess, he's likely to be scum (ckillor), it's worth taking that chance.

I'm guessing, btw, that the seating order is deliberate, with order based on in-school social groups seating in the lunch room. So the gossiping masons sit together, the foreign students at least partially sit together (I think. Aside from YT, I'm not sure who else is an exchange student), and it's likely that the kitchen staff are all in the same general area and the administration/teachers also sit together. For mafia groups that are mostly out of one social stratum, this may help us identify likely members, but it's likely that -some- of the scum have non-obvious seating. It's one piece of evidence, rather like role information, but it's entirely possible to balance it reasonably. And, of course, this is merely a guess, or perhaps a hypothesis.

Re Skruffs vs BM: yes, I agree with you, Skruffs-san, that there's a higher chance that he's scum than that you are. You're both unreliably been pronounced innocent, but he's actively acted scummy, and I don't really trust the innocent investigation on him. OTOH, if seating order is a useful clue, he -is- sitting next to you.

That said, I'm interested in speculation on scruffs/BM only in guidance for night actions/future days. They're clearly not good lynches for today.

ckillor, say something worthwhile or I'll throw some more food at you.

Oh, and we really shouldn't forget to list the soup-killing lynch mob yesterday. I haven't had time to track it down, sorry.

[mneme]

Sumimasen.

I thought ckillor's useless, lurking scumminess was pretty obvious. Quite simply, he's never done anything interesting. That he's also in a good position to test the player-order theory is a nice bonus.

Focus: ckillor:

throws food at SL
correction
asks about mechanics.
throws a sandwich at erg0 for no reason
talks about post restrictions, thinks my predecessor making "votes" (not throwing food) without giving reasons was "incredibly scummy". What, pointless FOSes are more scummy than pointless votes, now?
asks about jesters
complains about his food not doing damage
asks the same mechanics question he asked before. (?)
argues about a jester
talks about alergies
throws food at TSS for a crap reason (TSS throwing fake food)
talks about BM/Scruffs, thinks BM is scum.
gets the feeling that BM is town, throws food at skruffs. (?)
"oops" (more or less)
throws carrots at skitzer
talks about a running game.
talks about BM/skruffs, and thinks they're both townies.
throws food at gorrad
whines about fonz targetting him.
asks for clarification on "firing" as unemployment vs roasting.
winges about the player ordering, apparently hasn't read the thread aside from the food being tossed at him.

And...that's it. Blatant lurking scum, pulled out of the thread -- all of 30 posts over the entire game, with none being of substance, none being more than a line or two; he's stayed active, but has contributed as little to the game as possible.

throws empire sushi roll at ckillor

BM, did your lactose intolerance kick in yesterday?

[mneme]

Merii Kurisumasu!

I don't believe Ckillor's claim, at least, not as town. If any student is scum, I'd expect it to be the class president (as adminiscum, getting teachers fired and students expelled).

Skruffs: I don't believe you to be affiliated with BM (what an idea!), and do think he's very scummy. But he's been the subject of a reliable innocent investigation, so he's either a GF or "not Soup Scum" (or Fonz was blocked night 1, of course), and this is so not the point of the game where we want to be hunting for GFs.

Korlash: oh, no, not another one. That said, I can't judge anything about Korlash from his inability to read the thread or make a coherent argument, so barring other data, I'm much more interested in ignoring him for now.

Oh, right. Nobody else did, so:

The Anti-Soup Scum Lynch Mob

(in order of throwing food at Lowellscum)

Skruffs
mneme
volkan
cicero
Nightfall

These people (excluding Yours Truly, of course, since I know better) might be scum, but IMO, they're pretty unlikely to be Soup).

[mneme]

When did fonz say he investigated BM?

Surimasen -- He didn't, of course. Tar did. But then, we were talking about your role, not his, and I've been remembering parts of this game by role, not player.

I am really curious why so many people are making such incredibly bad mistakes, esp regarding me and bm's claims. Are we that identical that it's hard to distinguish us?

Hai. They're not really that bad (well, not as bad as actually acting scummy or giving the game to the scum). But yeah, kinda:

Skruffs: Has claimed an adult role (Lunch Lady), with loose thematic ties to a known scumgroup. A cop (Fonz) has claimed an innocent on him.

BM: Has claimed an adult role (Librarian) with loose thematic ties to a known scumgroup (whoever is firing/expelling players -- admin mafia or some such). A claimed cop (Tar) has claimed an innocent on him.

Now, the differences are in your day behavior -- BM has made numerous "mistakes" about his own role, and exagerated differences to try to get your lynched, only to backtrack on later days. Moreover, you're been a key player in at least one protown lynch, while he hasn't. So I, at least, am much more likely to confuse your flavors/cop protectors than your actual differences in behavior.

And no, you haven't been pushing for his lynch today, but my statement was more general -- I'd like to push the focus to players who haven't done much rather than those who have either done significant pro-town things or have been under the lens recently. If Tar is scum and has really gotten both his scumbuddies out themselves to protect him, this will come out -- a gossiping mason will presumably have -actual- buddies. (of course, it's possible that the "gossip group" has one town, and one of each major scumgroup among its membership -- that would be funny, at least). Not going to speculate overmuch on this, but I'm usually happy to let early linkers stick around -- they're much easier to test later, and in multiple scumgroup games, can frequently end up being tested without wasting a lynch.

[mneme]

Ake-mashite-omedetou-gozaimasu, everyone! (That's "Happy New Year" in Japanese!)

BM is clearly lying scum at this point. Does anyone have anything even vaguely resembling his described PM? Mine is certainly nothing like.

I'd also like to know ckillor's picks. Given his general scummishness, I'm much more interested in getting insight from potential rb picks and judgement on whether he's a likely rber than in concealing info on his pick logic -- easy enough to change that on a following night.

[mneme]

Man, I wasn't kidding about ignoring Korlash. /ignore /ignore/ /ignore. Flameaxe, I'm sure you can find better things to do than bait the troll. (though oddly, his responses to FA's baiting and cicero's oopsness have been marginally more cogent than the prior "complete and utter garbage" of 1300, 1314, 1316, 1277, 1280, 1291, 1296, 1298, etc.

I'm still waiting on ckillor -- ATM, I much prefer his lynch to gorgon's -- his behavior's been more scummy ("I'm a crappy player, and pull this shit in every game" isn't a good response to "you're a useless lurker", IMO; if you're not helping town, you're helping scum) and the role claim doesn't make me feel much better about him, particularly with him lapsing into lurkdom after claiming.

[mneme]

Ack. Forgot to use Nipponese last post!

Mneme: Why are you accusing Korlash of being the troll?

Because I wanted to avoid using a more insulting word.

Flameaxe is trolling Korlash a bit, but isn't a troll in general, IMEX.

Korlash: the fact that you have claimed to be a cop (without, you know, giving any results or otherwise giving us any reason to belive you might be a cop, and ignoring the fact that your mason group is both unconfirmed and somewhat unlikely to be composed entirely of sane, pro-town cops) doesn't excuse the fact that you present as a complete moron prone to craplogic and throwing random food whenever questioned. The only reason I haven't thrown food at you is that set of mitigating factors, but, in fact, I've no reason to believe you're pro-town, and several to believe you aren't. You aren't helping the school right now, regardless of your alignment/powers.

Please stop playing like a three year old child and at least attempt to contribute to the game meaningfully. Domo Arigato.

[mneme]

skruffs: I just didn't think cicero's name swap was all that interesting -- we've had a -lot- of name goofs this game, from nearly every active player. And his last few messages have definitely been ++goodposting.

I'm not interested in focusing attention on Korlash, because I'm neither ready to lynch him today nor interested in anything he has to say (unless he wants to give us investigation results, maybe). I'm interested in him playing the game rather than doing what he says he usually does (ie, act like scummy scummy scum regardless of his actual alignment).

I am interested in getting back to the current day's business -- which is either getting more info from ckillor and deciding to leave him alone or giving up and just lynching him (moving in that direction, myself).

Oyasumi!

[mneme]

replace: ckillor

Taikutsushiteru.

[mneme]

Flameaxe: so he did! LAL! Die, Scum!!!!!! Banzai!!!

Ok, maybe not. Despite the tripple post, I agree that all evidence is that ckillor's just stalling.

throws unagi sushi roll at ckillor
crushes norinori sushi roll on ckillor's nose
tosses tea at ckillor

[mneme]

Yes, my pick of ckillor/Hasgdfas was partially because his position, if he turned out to be down, would disprove the player order theory (as shown, we cannot prove it -- only disprove it).

Liking what I'm hearing from that quarter as a good target, and we're nearing deadline, so...

stuffs wasabi up hasgdfas's nose
throws all remaining sushi rolls at hasgdfas

[mneme]

Me! Prod me! Hai!

Ok, maybe not. I'll post a more substantive post later.

[mneme]

Konichiwa.

I don't think it's beyond possibility that all the foreign-language students are town. Since regardless, we're not confirmed (because we can't be sure that all foreign-lang students are town), it's not by any means a particularly strong role. (also, FL characters don't fit all that well into Admin or Soup -- one could shoehorn them in, but it's not a great fit).

I agree that Gorgon's certainty of the gossips being naive points to the possiblitiy of him and probably one of those "cleared" being naive.

We've got a tight-ish deadline, so...

throw one perl line sushi roll at Gorgon

[mneme]

I agree that Gorgon's certainty of the gossips being naive points to the possiblitiy of him and probably one of those "cleared" being naive.

What do you mean? Is the second 'naive' supposed to read 'scum', perhaps?

Hai. 2nd "naive" was supposed to be scum. Oops.

I suspect the gossips are not perfect cops in some fashion myself, but that's because 3 cops with full cop powers and a mason role are COMPLETELY BROKEN -- they'd be able to make investigations secretly, while sharing them with their mason partners and making sure they don't overlap until they have the whole town scoped out; even without confirmation, they'd have pretty good odds not revealing investigations since they were unlikely to lose all three members in one night, or even two at once (it's hard for the mafias to coordinate their kills...), and even without public reveals, their invesitagions would be "safe".

The fact that our masons haven't played that way (and, in fact, seem to have played exactly the opposite way, concealing their abilities and targets from one another as well as the town) points to a combination of bad play (what, nobody suggested this. Of three townie masons?) or more likely, one or more of the "masons" being scum. That said, if one assumes none of the masons are scum, then it's most likely that their investigatory power isn't complete -- 3 townie cop-masons, even without confirmation, woudl be too likely to break the game as above. So I'd guess either their sanity is in question or there's some reliability hack as mentioned earlier (ie, %naive, where % is masons targetting a player/masons left), simply for game balance reasons.

This is why I have been quiet in this game - I don't really know what's going on in it ... and of course the minute I say anything game relevant, it's blown out of proportion like it's a huge tell, just because it's not well thought out. I f*cking hate tells.

Tells are tells; they're important, but not that important.

But the biggest tell is lurkish, passive behavior.

[mneme]

Well, the crosskill almost made up for our missing our lynch yesterday. so desu.

Time to look over cicero's interactions.

[mneme]

1. Please, please, mod. Put the missing replacements in the first post. We NEED an accurate first post to interpret the game without too much work. (noted: ghulof/ABR, hasdgfas/ckillor; I'm probably missing some. Which is my point). Arigato Gozimasu.

Went through cicero's posts. Not a lot of great clues that I saw to his buddies; maybe his "nobody throw food at any of: Battlemage, Tarhalindur, Skruffs, Fonzie", but even with two of those dead, it feels more like an accurate statement based on play rather than buddy defense. He'd have said it even if a buddy -were- in there, though, of course.

He did, however, make some great points about Yamahako and Gorgon, ones that stand up even with him known Admin scum.

Mod: Is the 25th a real deadline? It's presented as a Night DL, not a day DL.

[mneme]

tosses a plutonium sushi roll at Yamahako
tosses a cream cheese and spagetti sushi roll at Yamahako

Not really impressed with the dualism there, no, not me.

[mneme]

Yamahako: Mochiron. Laziness is a sign of scum, as is constantly focusing energy back onto the same old players.

We have 10 remaining players. Of those, there are presumably four scum.

I'm guessing that two are you and gorgon. It's possible that the other two are BM and Tar -- him coming out to save his buddy isn't an unreasonable possiblity. But given that linkage, I'm much more interested in the Soup clues we already have than attempts to throw -more- mud back onto a remaining mason. Cicero's arguments against you hold, as do your attempts to point the game at "out" players rather than looking at any of the other 7 players.

[mneme]

Ohayou!

A very good night!

I can see how Tar's innocence quasi clears Korlash (symetry), but
I'm not sure how it clears Yama.

Korlash, are you ready to give us results yet? It seems like we could use them.

[mneme]

Re mass claim: Hai. I agree, now's the time.

If battlemage, Korlash, and Yama are all town, it's clear to me that Jordan, TheHermit, and Gorgon are our three scum.

But we need claim-based info to make an informed judgement on this (and lose nothing at this point by having claims).

[mneme]

Korlash: what am I suggesting? Maybe that the time has past for hiding results? Your results, Kudasai.

That said -- I'm happy to roll a bunch of dice to determine full claim order. Re Korlash's results, I think the town would benefit most from those being part of his claim, rather than first -or- last, given whenever the dice say he claims, no?

[mneme]

I claimed a while ago... <.< Ok someone claimed for me and ruined the fun... But still... :P

Mochiron desu -- but you'd been holding back your results. I remember your claiming them, though; fair enough.

And several other people are mostly claimed -- but one of the balancing factors of this game is that "claimed" doesn't mean you're fully claimed unless you say it does.

I'd rather have dice be generated on the site -- which are more or less unfakable. Ie (doesn't count for anything):

Original Roll String: 2d6

2 6-Sided Dice: (2, 6) = 8

Just generate d7, d6, d5, etc, ignoring picks of already claimed people (and reducing the pool each time someone's taken out). Dunno why people don't want me doing this, but I'll happily let someone else generate 6 random numbers.

[mneme]

Ah. It's been a feature here for a few years; since I came back, certainly.

Ok, here goes nothing. This post I'll roll dice, next I'll translate them. I'm just going to generate an ordered list of all players left in the game; I know some are claimed, but this is nice and unambiguous. Method: pull the Nth person from the current slate of players and remove that player from the slate; starting order is the order in the first post. I'll leave in the last die roll for silly completeness.


So here are our numbers:

d7 = 685041231
d6 = 1260239291
d5 = 1545869770
d4 = 618301139
d3 = 107630269
d2 = 1105318798
d1 = 64594874

[mneme]

So for those too lazy to do their own homework, our claim order is:

7. Yamahako
3. TheHermit (repl. YosiP (repl. Bamboomancer))
4. BattleMage
2. mneme (repl. Sir Tornado (repl. pulsewidth))
5. Korlash (repl. VitaminR)
1. Holy(repl. JordanA24)
6. Gorgon (repl. pickemgenius)

(numbers at the beginning represent the starting order, as per the top post).

[mneme]

edbp:

1725: Baka na sensei
1726: watashi wa totemo baka baka baka desu, ne

Gomenasai, for the trip-post.

[mneme]

My turn. Watashi wa Akira Hiroshige, exchange student from Tokyo.

I'm aligned with the students (town). (I believe the "alignment" question was omitted from Tornado's initial PM, though I received it when I replaced in -- this curious "lack of alignment" was stated in the thread and IIRC confirmed by other townies and, effectively, by the mod).

Post Restriction: One japanese word per post. (also, though I haven't either broken or paid attention to it, I can only throw Japanese food; I only noticed this as a post restriction on the re-read). There's no listed punishment associated with the post restriction.

Lunch box contains: 6 sushi rolls, 1 spoonful of wasabi, one cup of tea. (the adjetives I've added to sushi rolls were flavor, but allowed because the throw still included "sushi roll").

No powers, no alergies.

=====================================

Re the post restriction thing...wow, Sir Tornado's japanese was awful, wasn't it?

To a degree, well, he didn't get away with it -- he was replaced! But I think a lot of this is that it's a "flavor" restriction, so while it's encouraged, it's not strictly enforced; accidents aren't punished mechanically, so the occasional lapse simply isn't a problem.

[mneme]

So for those too lazy to do their own homework, our claim order is:
...
2. mneme (repl. Sir Tornado (repl. pulsewidth))
5. Korlash (repl. VitaminR)
1. Holy(repl. JordanA24)
6. Gorgon (repl. pickemgenius)

So yes to Korlash, then Holy, then you (Gorgon).

[mneme]

EDBOP: Arigato gozaimasu.

[mneme]

Arigato, Korlash.
But please make a real claim post when you're sober?

Domo.

[mneme]

2. What happens if you break your PR?

There is no punishment explained or even hinted at within the role PM itself.

Can anyone else with a PR confirm or deny this?

Hai. I did so in my claim.

Hermit's play is very bad. At least today.

That said, I don't buy the idea of safe claims in this game. Doesn't fit the flavor, and PRs are easy enough to fake that a "safe claim" is unnecessary.

Also, the claim about "I don't know why DGB would warn on some posts" seems unfounded -- DGB has -never- warned on a PR post AFAIK.

An analysis of when the PRs appeared (in which order) is in order.

Also, note that my PR is proven by my food...is anyone going to claim that I've faked being Nipponese?

Hmm. Pulsewidth was first.
Bamboo (Hermit) was second.

Bamboo's food matches his role (croissant, a tartine au Nutella, and a drink: apricot nectar). Though it's odd that he has 3 pieces of food and I have 8.

Now re Blackberry...

Blackberry replaced Foolinc. He never bothered faking a post restriction. (presumably, with a safe claim, he would have).

Now, re Foolinc:

Hmm. Post 13, he's making with the PR/Mexican food, before "I" and before Bamboo posted.

That said...one interesting aspect: his food was fake. The pepper didnt' do any damage.

He then...didn't throw any food at all.

So as it is, we have evidence that Foolinc managed an early fake PR, but none that his food matched his PR (and, in fact, some that it didn't -- with no real food thrown...).

In conclusion? I'm not planning on throwing any food at Hermit today. His play is far more like mine than like Blackberry's, so as far as I'm concerned, he's likely town.

I think Holy's scum, though -- her claim just doesn't make much sense.

[mneme]

Kore wa ikura desu ka? The players who have claimed PRs are:

Me/Sir T/pulsewidth
Foolinc/Blackberry
TheHermit (repl. YosiP (repl. Bamboomancer)

AFAIK, that's it.

Foolinc was scum, and nothing he says has value.

I and Hermit have been consistent in saying that there's no stated punishment for breaking/bending a PR, we've never been warned or whatnot, etc.

Since I've eliinated Hermit from likely scum, that leaves four scum among:

Holy(repl. JordanA24)
BattleMage
Korlash (repl. VitaminR)
Gorgon (repl. pickemgenius)
Yamahako

I don't think Korlash is scum. I don't -think- Battlemage is scum.

So therefore, the other three are probably scum. But I might be wrong about Korlash, about Battlemage, or about Hermit, so food-covering order matters.

[mneme]

edbp (Gomennasi!): -3- scum left.

[mneme]

Also, note that my PR is proven by my food...is anyone going to claim that I've faked being Nipponese?

Your PR is supported with your food as true, not proven true because of your food, IMO.

[/quote]
Gomennasi -- I meant "proven=tested", not "proven=proven true", but was sloppy.

Yes, my PR claim is supported by my food selection, not proven objectively true by same. However, my Japanese theme is, if not proven, certainly indicated by my food.

I can't get off the fact that BM's food are so German, but he didn't claim any PR about German.

Hmm. Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it.

At least one of Korlash, Yama, and BM are scum if Hermit and I are town (and the similarities between Hermit and I seem greater than the differences). This...is interesting.

[mneme]

Well, I'm not going to miss -another- deadline due to them all apparenlty occuring DURING WEEKENDS.

I think Yama's a good lynch. Probably one of the remaining soup scum.

Banzai!

beams three lobster sushi rolls and three artichoke sushi rolls at Yamahako
stuffs wasabi up Yamahako's nose
pours tea over Yamahako's schoolwork
throws all remaining food at Yamahako

[mneme]

Ohayo gozaimasu!

Well, not really good...

My first assumption is that you're all scum...but if that were true (2 soup scum & 1 admin scum left), we'd not have a morning...except.

Hmm. Ok, I think I know what is going on.

[mneme]

Sumimasen deshita, but since you're all scum, I have no interest in giving up my ideas on why the game isn't over yet. They don't really matter, anyway -- the point is that we have 3 scum left, so you're all scum, and it's very important that we lynch one of the two Admin scum. I've got a 50% shot at this, and the two players most closely linked are Korlash/BM due to Korlash's investigation "clearing" BM.

Of the two, BM's more likely to be scum in the unlikely case that I'm wrong and we magically have two scum left. Of course, if there are only two remaining scum lynching scum dooms the town (probably), but I think the odds are with the "three scum" possiblity...

Anyone wanna claim "soup scum" and make things easier?

[mneme]

Sumiatsenn, Korlash, and BM, but unlike you guys, I'm not scum, and can't actually tell the difference between the factions. You're all scum to me. Also, the mysterious klller was almost certainly blackberry -- we've never had two deaths after his killing, and he was unaffiliated scum. Yes, 2 soup alive, 1 admin alive. 1 soup dead, 2 admin. Assuming the game setup is the most obvious 3/3/1 one.

The problem with a no lynch is twofold:

1. Since this game has no votes, it means having to time out, thus taking too long. (yeah, we could just tell the mod "we're not throwing any more food", I suppose)

2. In the expected case, no lynch just makes scum win. I'm sure this is good for the soup scummies (korlash and BM, I'd bet), but not so much for me. I'd rather lynch a Soup and hope you guys kill each other off, frankly.

This said, we -must- lynch one of me or Korlash. In the unlikely case that we have two opposed scum left, they're most likely to be Gorgon and BM, due to the setup discontinutiy we've seen. If we lynch one of two scum, there's a good chance the other scum just wins by massacre. So the "town"'s best bet is to lynch the one of Korlash and myself that the non-Soup scum believe most likely to be Soup (I know this is Korlash, since I'm town. But since whichever of Gorgon and BM don't, I'm trying to appeal to scummy self-interest).

Basically, if my assumptions are correct:

If we no-lynch, the soup scum win.
If we lynch admin-scum, the soup scum win.
If we actually only have two scum left, and lynch -any- scum, the remaining scum wins.

Therefore, we must lynch someone who is soup, and if not soup, is a townie.

This person is Korlash.

throws 6 head-cheese sushi rolls at Korlash
throws tea at korlash
smells wasabi then throws wasabi at Korlash
throws all remaining food at Korlash

(of course, if we -are- in a two soup, 1 admin, one mneme/townie situation, that doesn't answer the question of why the game isn't over. but I have my guesses).

[mneme]

Korlash-san: I left an entire round of posts between my initial analysis (which concluded that you or BM had to die) and my alpha. (that said, yes, 2 deaths. 2 scumgroups = 2 deaths. We haven't had -three- deaths since out lone "scum" died).

Of -course- BM is scum. Of -course- holy is scum. But I don't think they're scum together. (actually, the lack of a hammer starts to prove my judgement there).

Now, re your analysis: It's completely baka.

1. We don't have 1 or 3 scum. We have 2 or 3 scum, and 2 scumgroups.
2. If we have 2 scum, we must No Lynch or lynch a townie.
3 If we have 3 scum we must lynch soup.

The conclusion, therefore, is that we must lynch someone who is either soup or a townie, but definately not Admin. That's kinda you (actually, it's exactly you).

If I'd jumped wrong, and you were the last Admin, I'd have expected BM to hammer -- but he didn't. So I'm figuring I guessed right.

Now re endgame: under normal circumstances, in a normal game, the game might be over once it reached 2 scumA, 1 scumB, 1 town, due to normal endgame rules -- 50% of the town = scum win--scumA cannnot lose in this case. But yes, some games have a vig or opposing scum delay the win to possibly have a dead tie. This game has non-standard voting rules, so it's possible the town can win even against a scum equality -- which is kinda what I'm counting on.

In any case, aside from "hammer Korlash and then kill eachother, scumz!" I don't have much to say to the scum, which are, you know, all or most of the rest of the game.

[mneme]

youkoso, "The Cake!" Are you actually Gorgon's alt, ie, replacing yourself?

Domo, but your analysis is flawed.

It's fairly clear from #1865 that Korlash and Gorgon (and now Cake!) are likely scumbuddies, 1868 only confirms it.

Doesn't matter much, of course, except for how you guys take the night.

I take it that since you're 80% sure that Korlash is town, you'll be launching food at (or by my lights, bussing) him? Since if I'm scum, and BM is scum, and you and Korlash are town (I know this isn't the case, but it's a useful reducto), the only way for the town to win today is to lynch town or no-lynch (and no-lynch is, I believe, much worse (for town) than lynching town even in the 2-town, 2-scum model--1/9 chance of a town win, compared to 1/4 chance if you successfully lynch town and leave two opposing scum alive).

[mneme]

BM-baka, I am not, nor have I ever been a woman. Please, mind your pronouns.

At least one of you is scum opposed to the others, and should therefore realize exactly how bad a plan it is to kill off the last remaining townie. But if that person is korlash, I'm boned anyway.

[mneme]

Re BM being scum: Obviously. I can do subraction, so it's obvious you're scum to -me-. If you're not, I've doomed the town by voting korlash-scum, but so be it.

This engame is so full of baka that I'm sitting in it. The only reason for Cake to throw his food at me is if he's part of a remaining 2-person scumgroup, or if he thinks I'm town. Or if he somehow thinks that there's a scumgroup with a double-kill, maybe? Hmm. Or he could think I was opposing scum and be the last member of a scumgroup, I suppose.

The possiblities, again, for the slow: (yeah, I know -- you're all scum, so it's mostly meaningless, but I can try):

1. We have two opposing scum left. Impossible unless the scumgroups had uneven numbers, or we had two SKs (seems unlikely).
2. We have one scumgroup left. Unthinkable -- two scumkills.
3. We have two scumgroups left, one with 2, one with 1. This is by far the most likely hypothesis, given our evidence. If so, it's important to remember that this is a very wierd game re votes (ie, food) -- not only do some people have more food than others, but you don't need anything close to a majority of the total # of votes to "lynch" -- a submajority can pull off a lynch. This was why I was willing to throw food early -- because it's entirely possible that two people can "lynch" in this game, giving an advantage to whomever throws food first. Also, why I wasn't willing to talk about it; it's possible that the scum could just force a conclusion by speed-voting (since it hasn't happened, I'm guessing that they don't have the food).

Now, why we're still playing if there are two scum left...normally,with scum parity, the scum have a de facto win even if the rules don't give it to them; they can't lose a lynching vote, and can just kill until they win. In this case, the votes are wierd, and it's possible (probable, I think) that townies have more votes than many scum. So it's possible the scum can lose from a parity position, particularly with other killers in the game, thus we (by which I mean me and the remaining soup) haven't been endgamed yet.

[mneme]

mattaku, korlash, I already said I don't care about admin vs soup. It's not like I can tell the difference; you're all scum from here.

What I care about is the two-scum group (which is, yes, Admin) vs the one-scum group (ie, soup).

My analysis (which, since I seem, as the lone townie, to have more food than anyone else, with a total food count of barely 100%, was flawed; I should have waited until everyone had thrown food or drawn sides before throwing, so I had a better chance of IDing the scumpair) is based not on "who is soup" vs "who is admin", but "who is scum that seems likely to be teamed with other scum". That's the only thing I care about; if one of the scumpair isn't lynched today, both I and the remaining lone scum is doomed. If they are, it's anyone's game (1/4 chance mine, 1/4 for each of the scum, 1/4 for a scum tie, assuming random nightkills). But I don't care about flavor; I'm much more intersted in IDing the "lone scum" and not throwing food at him or her. If I've failed at this, that's my bad, but that's not a logic failure, just a terminology.

IOW, scum=scum.

[mneme]

BM-baka: please stop using "her" or "she" to refer to me.

[mneme]

Also, I'm the only PROVEN TOWN left.

See the day 1 arguments over initial goals, and the mod's proof of same.

Tsukareta desu.

[mneme]

lol you are so far from proven town, its hilarious. But, i'll humour you. Spill.

BM, your selective memory is...fascinating.

As you may recall, there was a big argument on (I think day 1) twix you and Sir Tornado (my predecessor). Sir Tornado ran into some trouble on day 1 (mostly, because he's -awful-). This came to a head in [url=
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... ht=#808427]330[/url], where he mentioned that he did not have a win condition mentioned in his PM.

Then, in 342, our everloving mod said:

Note: If your PM doesn't mention your alignment, your alignment is "town" - the scum knows who they are, don't worry.

Which pretty much confirmed Sir T (and by extension, myself) as town.

Watashi-wa TOWN.

Additional evidence that I'm town is that I have more than 25% of the available food (proven). If I were part of a two-man scumgroup, well, 1. we'd have already won, and 2. it would have to be either with Korlash (?), cake (?) or you (you know we're not, plus our fight that I link to above).

(and sorry about the gender thing, i just kind of naturally assume you're female. :o
The PR isnt exactly helping).

?! It's not like we haven't been in games before -- and what, all Nipponese are female suddenly?

Anyways, the way I see it, only BM is important (ie, can cause town to win, which is, after all, what I care about at this point). Korlash has no viable options, town or scum, than throwing food at me.

But BM?

If you're part of a two man scumgroup...you've won. Congrats. Finish it off already. There is no "BM is part of a two-man scumgroup" situation where he hasn't already won.

If you're solo scum, you should lynch korlash with me. I'm obviously not allied with korlash or cake, but that's not proven for them -- so while all lynches are equal, a few are (much) more equal than others.

If you're town? You should lynch me (unless you're a vig or something, which changes the equasion imeasurably). If there are two town and two opposing scum left, it's very important that we lynch town today -- it's better to go into endgame with 1 town, 1 scum A, and 1 scum B than with 2 town and two opposing scum, and lynching scum in that situation causes the other scum to win.

[mneme]

Note: If your PM doesn't mention your alignment, your alignment is "town" - the scum knows who they are, don't worry.

Which pretty much confirmed Sir T (and by extension, myself) as town.

Thats only evidence if you consider that Sir T is a terrible player who can't manage to read the OP. As i know him slightly better than that, i dont buy into this logic im afraid.

What, you think Sir T's play in this game -wasn't- terrible?

Christ on a pogo stick -- he obeyed his PR by adding not-very-Japanese non sequitors to the end of every post, rather than using google for replacement words like a normal person. He threw votes around and refused to explain them when asked, building up a nice bandwagon in the process.

But he also claimed (truthfully, AFAIK) not to have received an explicit alignment in his PM, and the Mod confirmed that this meant he was town in a later post.

Just the over-doing of the PR has a feminine edge to it.

? I slip one or two Nipponese words into each post. That's overdoing it?

Anyways, the way I see it, only BM is important (ie, can cause town to win, which is, after all, what I care about at this point). Korlash has no viable options, town or scum, than throwing food at me.

then what motive do you think he has for stalling?

Good question. Not a clue, here -- presumably, he's trying to obscure the question of him being town vs scum -- or if town, is seeing a "no win" situation and hoping for a way out.

Ok, thanks for the content. I've made my decision.

Will throw my food in a bit, unless Korlash has anything else to say.

Cool. I look foward to seeing how it turns out.

[mneme]

One: Win Condition and Allignment are not synonymous

Actually, they are.

Two: You forgot your 'PR' in that last post, Mneme

Oh? Nipponese is not a Japanese word this week?

baka.

[mneme]

I'm a little confused about that last night.

Shouldn't that be "Cake and BM kill mneme?" (korlash being A. Town and B. Dead?

I basically had the game pegged on the last night -- with BM and Cake town. Annoyingly, they didn't realize each other were, or my plan might have worked.

(if I'd realized what I did after the lynch -- that a 2/3 Admin/Soup split was -entirely- workable given that the Admin scum had Bad Behavior notes, which presumably gave them an edge -- I'd probably have pushed for a self-lynch, figuring Korlash was the townie most likely to come off as Town.

That said -- was BM immune to kills? If so, welll, the town was doomed the last night.

[mneme]

BM: yes, that was the point. But you both targetted me, despite it being more or less obvious that you were both scum.

[mneme]

s/with BM and Cake town/with BM and Cake scum/

[mneme]

Hmm. So BM got your nightkill immunity, cicero? It looks like he survived at least one nightkill based on the night reports.

cicero+BM+Jordan/Holy = Admin Scum? (I knew Holy was scum! Just screamed scum!)

3 on 3 would have made a lot more sense (and would likely have resulted, assuming lack of death millers, in korlash and I madly competing to be the last day lynch -- which would have failed in the face of BM's apparent nightkill immunity, but hey.

[mneme]

Fonz: well, I thought so -- which made BM's and Cake's reasons for killing me (rather than attepting the cross-kill) doubly wierd.

[mneme]

Hmm. Actually, knowing about the nightkill immunity, the only hope for the town -was- the no-lynch.

No Lynch, plus propper cross-kills: BM kills Cake. Cake fails to kill BM. Town lynches BM.

But the only way to predict that is to extrapolate Cicero's complaint after the nightkill with the last admin having a nightkill immunity.

[mneme]

*nod* that kept me safe (from lynching) pretty much the entire game -- but the scum didn't buy it when I mentioned it in the endgame.

[mneme]

Gorrad: I think I understand why the Admin mafia won ties.

They have BB notes. So they can get an extra-kill by BB-note papering you.

What I don't understand is why you killed me. Did you really think I was more likely to be Admin mafia than the player with BB notes?