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The Hobbit Mafia - GAME OVER
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Yaw Yawesome
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Well, four killing groups at any rate. The thing is that the trolls didn't go about snapping necks -- their killing methods all had something to do with cooking and eating. On the other hand, Gollum's more a neck-snapper. But we know there are trolls out there, and the scimitars do seem more like goblin kills.
Lightning doesn't seem to fit with anyone other than Gandalf, who is well-known for pyrotechnics. But Gandalf evil? Killing jeep night one isnotsomething I'd expect a vig to do -- even in a game like this with an expectation of multiple killing groups, were he scum, we'd want him alive to track down the scum groups he isn't in. Whoever killed jeep was scum, from the circumstances.Success breeds suspicion-
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You're right, a combined cop/vig would be another possibility for Gandalf. That one should become clear as the game proceeds. If on future nights we end up with some zapped dwarves, we'll know it's a SK. On the other hand, if the lightning kills disappear, it would make the combo role more likely. (Although even here, we'd have to account for possible doc protection or another roleblocker.)Success breeds suspicion-
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Ooo...good article. Thanks Tigris, I hadn't seen that before.
I do think Antrax went a bit farther than just a cop/vig in his "don'ts", though -- he had a combo character that couldn't be lynched or killed. I'll agree that a cop/vig combo is likely too overpowering in this game, as with (if that were true) three scum groups out there that role is bound to hit somthing at a pretty high rate. I don't think Murk's suggestion is possible, as it isn't a good idea to complicate matters more than necessary.
One-shot SK would be silly as a role. If Gollum were an anti-town role that had to find Bilbo, as Argoti suggested, that would be more likely. At any rate, there's only so far this kind of speculation is likely to get us.
IS, I thought you were volunteering for a bandwagon back there. I'd be happy to comply with that request...Success breeds suspicion-
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Yaw Yawesome
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Yaw Yawesome
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Agreed. Now, I did start the jediknight-wagon, and unlike what IS claimed, it wasnotclutching at straws. We need a wagon of some sort to start this day going, and I'll take any semi-reasonable excuse I can find to start the first one off. Now we can start to actually analyze voting patterns.
Check out IS's last two posts, though.
Internet Stranger wrote:Your evil people are either Coolbot or Korais.
So, you're sure enough Korais is scum that you put it in such blatant terms, yet you have a problem with being the third vote on him of 13 to lynch?! Looks to me like you're not particularly eager to actually lynch scum here, IS.Internet Stranger wrote:I didnt realize Korais already had votes on him. I will go with Coolbot instead.FOS: Internet StrangerSuccess breeds suspicion-
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Far more likely that our mod used the book itself.
In addition, we already know from the deaths last night that Elrond was aroleblocker(I'm assuming people arrived in Rivendell for the night and didn't want to leave) and Nori was atownie. At the very least those who are spouting off wild theories about rhyming masons could make them correspond with the few facts we have.
Also, there we have the Gollum thing again. If Gollum is in this game, the mod admittedly could have used him in a number of ways. His nature suggests a serial killer to me -- in "The Hobbit", Gollum ate anything that came down to his lake, and the only thing that saved Bilbo from being eaten right off the bat was the fact that Bilbo was carrying a sword. Gollum didn't have much information about anything until he came out from the mountains, which happened post-Hobbit.Success breeds suspicion-
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Actually, TSS, I suggested Gollum as a neck-snapper before Korais did. Also, Korais has only had one post since the game started, and that was random voting. There certainly isn't even close to enough there to state unequivocably (as IS did) that Korais is scum.
Now Korais may very well be scum. But either way IS is full of crap.Success breeds suspicion-
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Oh, I agree completely about IS's playing style. That's why I'm not voting for him at the moment -- what's scummy for every other person in the world is normal for IS. But that doesn't preclude him from being full of crap, and I have no problems with pointing that out when he is.Success breeds suspicion-
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This is becoming quite ridiculous. The way these large games get started is to find some half-baked excuse, and bandwagon. Most of the time, it's a bandwagon to a claim. That's the way this works. Then we can sit back and analyze who bandwagoned, who didn't, how the bandwagon's target reacted, and why. All of that is relevant information that can catch us scum. What we have now is a conversation starter, it is not necessarily a lynch-wagon.
Jediknight, could you give us some explanation for the "pro-town by accident" comment? If you can do it without claiming, that would be better.
IS's definition of nobility comes from the same source as Mao Tse-Tung's definition of freedom.
I'm willing to listen to anyone who claims to have found scum, but they have to at least give some reasoning for it. You got any to back up your claims on Korais and Coolbot, IS?Success breeds suspicion-
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No, what I said is that it was a conversation-starting-wagon, rather than a lynch-wagon. I never denied it was a bandwagon.jediknight wrote:Since a good portion of the group seems to be hiding...and Yaw seems to be backpedaling saying this isn't a bandwagon... it's a "conversation starter"...like h-e double hockey sticks (LL for the undeducated!) That makes you more scummy to me. And Yaw also seems to be the one that has the most issues with my continued discussion of Gollum.
Didn't Galion pushallthe dwarves into the river? Also, he had nothing to do with the keys to the dungeon. Plus "never to be targetted again" is a rather disturbing turn of phrase.
Although I'll admit Galion does fit the "not really considered good" criteria...Success breeds suspicion-
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It is a weak claim...
We're at 10 votes with 13 to lynch. I would much prefer if we don't end this day before everyone has the chance to comment. I didn't expect this bandwagon to be so fast or decisive. Ideally, by the time we go into night, every role should have at least one post. Otherwise, we're just going to run into problems in coming days.Success breeds suspicion-
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Looks like people are just a little too eager to finish this off.
Unvote: Jediknight
I don't believe him, but we shouldn't go to night without hearing from everyone, and this takes off a bit of the pressure. Chaotic_diablo, Ibanez, indentureddjinn, Kommandant, NanookTheWolf, Shivan_Dragon, and Uraj need to get their asses in here. (Although it should be noted that Shivan_Dragon is on vacation at the moment until early next week.)Success breeds suspicion-
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Still waiting. I missed dragonmaster on my original list -- he hasn't posted yet either.
It's IS. There's really no other explanation. HeMr. Flay wrote:I still don't see why IS gets a pass. Granted, I've never played with him before, but he's essentially fingered 3 different people (dragonmaker, coolbot, and korais) for no visible reasons, votes for jediknight "just to end the day" when we haven't even heard from everyone, and seems to have some sort of feud with Yaw. He's even got people asking him who they should vote for, but not why (except Yaw). I'd vote for him, but he's bulletproof today, and then there's this...alwaysacts this way, no matter what role he's in. This means we need to look for more subtle stuff if we want to figure out if he's scum. My personal plan is to ignore him for the most part, point out where he's wrong, and wait for a cop to figure out if he's scum or not. I figure somebody's got to investigate him sooner or later, and even Jeep admits that when he's a cop he'll waste an investigation on IS. The guy's just that good at disguising his role.
On the other hand, if he's not scum, he is worth listening to. He has rather innovative ways of catching scum, and is one of the better players at it. He's also great at poisoning the well when catching scum, as you can imagine -- he'll point out someone as scum correctly, without giving any reason to believe him.
Thus is the saga of IS.Success breeds suspicion-
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Alright, I'll compromise to avoid this dragging out. My vote will go back on when both Uraj and indentureddjinn have posted actual content, or 24 hours after this post. I don't expect to hear from the other people on my list, and expect most of them will be replaced shortly.Success breeds suspicion-
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Well, I confirmed by PM too, but that's personal choice.
SATH = Smack Across The Head. I needed something while in Paced Mafia (now finished) to indicate that I was annoyed with someone who at the time was pretty much a confirmed townie, so I invented that. It doesn't indicate scumminess, it indicates that the recipient of the smack should get their head out of their ass.
Note that I don't mean to imply here that indentureddjinn is a confirmed anything. I'm merely saying that he has to participate more and stop procrastinating, because the lurking is annoying. He may have legitimate reasons for it, I don't know. Just expressing my displeasure.
Feel free to use and proliferate SATHs.Success breeds suspicion-
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Oh. I was about to ask. Now I realize IS is still on yesterday.
Reread coming up. With a dead goblin and dead troll tonight, we should be able to figure out who the other members of those groups are...if they're here. Any news on the lurkers, mod?
And now we have spiders. There are alotof scum in this game...Success breeds suspicion-
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I'm willing to join this after a re-read. It's not because of Korais not voting for jediknight, though. The interaction between Korais and Mr. Flay strikes me as odd, so with Mr. Flay being a troll, that's my logic.Vote: korais666
I will also note that I wasn't finding as much as I expected in the reread. I strongly suspect some of our lurkers are scum, and will be looking there next.
On thinking about it, "dead without marks" is probably the troll kill. Sitting on someone stuffed in a sack would do that.Success breeds suspicion-
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To be honest, I generally don't look much for who votes for who. (Well, I do, but it's not that high on my list of things to look for.) I look for how people interact with one another, especially how people interact with known scum while they're alive. There's some fishy interaction between Korais and Mr. Flay away from the main focus of the day that leads to to believe they might be working together. Looked like a fake argument designed to separate them from one another. At least it's enough for me to want to check it out. (Here's where I differ from IS -- I think Korais is a troll if scum, IS thinks he's a goblin.)Corsato wrote:Yaw, what do you mean with "the interaction between Korais and Mr. Flay"??
There were 13 people voting for jediknight yesterday, 11 were not. Why is Korais more suspicious then any of those 11 players?
Jediknight attacked a number of people yesterday, though. Even so, I don't think your logic holds up well -- I was the first on the jediknight-wagon, insisted on it being a good bandwagon, and carried it through. Were I his partner, I would not be shining a big lynching spotlight on jediknight like that. You're also really misinterpreting my actions, CoolBot. I tried to slow the lynch down to allow people to say something before the day ended. I never tried toCoolBot wrote:I'm wondering about Yaw. Jedi attacked him late, after it was pretty apparant Jedi was going to be lynched. At the about the same time, Yaw jumped off the wagon, and after that was pretty reluctant about casting the lynching vote.stopthe lynch from occurring, and was quite sure that lynching jediknight was the right thing to do day 1.
Which reminds me, mod, what is going on with dragonmaster and Kommandant? Are they in this game, or are they getting replaced?Success breeds suspicion-
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Actually, it's more the other way around -- Mr. Flay creating deliberate distance between himself and Korais. But since you wanted examples...
Let's go through this. First of all, Korais actuallyMr. Flay wrote:And then there's this from Korais666:
*bzzzt* Sorry, did you forget completely about cops? We've already had a Night 1, there could be somebody out there (several somebodies, maybe) with what they believe to beyou have to figure that when ANYONE says somebody is "evil" day 1, they usually mean "evilmaybenotreallysurejustguessing"prima facieevidence of someone's guilt. Paranoid/insane cops, maybe, but strong in their convictions.
Since Jediknight is leaving for a week, the merciful thing to do would be to run the bandwagon out and kill him now. His partial role-claim really stinks; a one-shot doc, only if he targets the right player? Only likely if every person gets an ability, and we already saw that Nori got 'townie'...
Howecver I don't want to push it over the edge until lurkers like Uraj45 and indentureddjinn have a chance to 'say' something. My vote for Korias666 is confirmed.iscorrect in his assessment quoted here. With the way IS was going on day 1, if he were a cop he'd be going on two investigations to be that sure, which is impossible. Why argue with Korais, then? Worse, you can see from the context here that this post came after Jediknight claimed, at which point it should have been pretty clear that the given roleclaim stunk. Yet, Mr. Flay simply acknowledges this is the case, advocates something pretty close to lynching for the sake of lynching, and thenconfirms his vote on Korais. Why on earth would he do that? Certainly there's nothing in what Mr. Flay has said to justify that kind of step, especially since he's already acknowledged that Jediknight's claim stinks. This entire thing looks quite forced. With the bandwagon going pretty hard in Jediknight's direction, the only reason I can think of for this is to work in a plausible "we're not working together" defense for later.
Look through Mr. Flay's posts for yourself. He harps on Korais far too much when Korais was under little actual pressure. I think this indicates something scummy going on between the two of them.Success breeds suspicion-
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Mike's already doing so -- check the Queue. I think the second replacement is for dragonmaster (who hasn't posted either in this game), but I'm not as sure about that one.the silent speaker wrote:Has The_Kommandant posted in this game? At all? I can't find him on the Display Posts From feature. Mikehart, please replace him.Success breeds suspicion-
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AndI'dlike to hear more from the people who have yet to post today, of which there are far too many. (Fortunately, there are now replacements for Kommandant and dragonmaster, at least in theory, so that little problem should be resolved shortly.)
The real problem is that the legitimate reason for the bandwagon on Korais is based on what Mr. Flay did in referring to him yesterday, rather than anything Korais himself did. It's rather difficult to defend against something you didn't do. Nevertheless, there's enough evidence there to point at Korais being scum, and his willingness to lynch jediknight isn't even remotely a part of it.Success breeds suspicion-
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Welcome, PeaceBringer!
What do you mean by a vote proxy?
Otherwise, just look back through the game and the past few pages in depth. This day's only been going for about 2 pages or so. The rest is summarized on the front page. Of course, if you want to trawl day 1 for evidence, you'll have to read.
Kommandant has posted nothing this entire game, by the way, so you won't have to worry about what your predecessor did.Success breeds suspicion-
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No, no active proxies. There are some roles that may be able to vote twice or "buy" another player's vote that have been used in games on this site, but those kinds of actions would be specified in the role itself.
Also, you need to actually bold the voting part to have your vote count, not just the name. So it'sVote: So-and-SoandUnvote: So-and-So. If you just bold the name, the mod might not pick up which you're doing.
(Note, this in no way is intended to change my vote for Korais.Vote: korais666, in case my examples had unintended voting consequences.)Success breeds suspicion-
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Haven't seen anything from Murk today either, and I think Gaspode's still on vacation. If any of them show up on AIM, I'll prod. We just call them lurkers, by the way.
Or because they can. Experienced scum tend to kill randomly, or as close as possible. It means they're harder to track down by people looking for reasons behind night kills. Incidentally, that's why I almost never use night kills as scum "tells". At any rate, RickPeaceBringer wrote:In general 4 reasons for a kill by a bad guy. Get rid of a dangerous player, hunting for cop, person had right suspects, or to throw suspiscion on the players suspects.isa good player.
Also, ISalwaysposts like this. No matter what the role, he's always the scummiest-looking person around. It's his playing style, and he makes it work for him. (I think I have a good clue as to why.) As others have mentioned, nobody's quite sure how to tell when he's scum, and he's a good enough mafia hunter when town that it isn't worth lynching him as an object lesson (not that any such lesson would take). Best bet is to let him be, ride his scum-hunting prowess as far as we can (even if he is scum, he'll be trying to take out the scum groups he isn't a part of), and have a cop check him out. If there's an experienced cop in this game, I expect that's already been done, and if there's an inexperienced cop in this game, I except that will be done tonight at the latest.
I agree it's getting close to claiming time for Korais. If the claim is inadequate, I'd prefer to see our second replacement show up, at least, before we lynch.Success breeds suspicion-
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There was a large battle with giant spiders in Mirkwood in "The Hobbit". Spiders set upon the dwarves in the night, webbed them all up, but Bilbo woke up before the spiders had finished cocooning him. Putting on the ring, he was able to fight off the spiders and rescue the dwarves. So yes, there is sufficient backing for a group of spiders in this game, and that group would have no connection to Gollum whatsoever.PeaceBringer wrote:if this was LOR would think A gollum tie to spider-- but since hobbit not sure why we are getting spider type kill- I would say we cannot rule out a tie to gollum with spider-- just based on LOR--Success breeds suspicion-
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Oh, this is ridiculous. I never said anything about liking or not liking Jeff Foxworthy. I stated quite clearly that Jeff Foxworthydoes not belong in this game. It's page 12 and day 2. This iswaytoo late to be throwing around random votes.
Now, read over the thread and start postingcontent.
There's no reason for the mod to do anything. If the replacement wants to commit suicide, that's his prerogative.Success breeds suspicion-
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I guess we're just waiting for enough people to figure out this game's going on so we can get the lynch. Can we have a vote count in the meantime?
If what Korais is saying is correct, even though we eliminated a scum group, it doesn't do us too much good. At least this means that the neck-snapper from day 1isGollum, since no troll is claiming it.
Can we have a vote count?Success breeds suspicion-
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I guess we're just waiting for enough people to figure out this game's going on so we can get the lynch. Can we have a vote count in the meantime?
If what Korais is saying is correct, even though we eliminated a scum group, it doesn't do us too much good. At least this means that the neck-snapper from day 1isGollum, since no troll is claiming it.
Can we have a vote count?Success breeds suspicion-
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PeaceBringer, part of the rationale here is to force prods and replacements. Although, I had thought the same thing as Yggdrasil too. In addition to the fact that I hadn't been able to tie people together with Jediknight as goblins, it's probable that at least one group missed a kill because of inactivity, rather than doc protection or role-blocking. So there is enough evidence that some of our lurkers are scum, and this is a good strategy to get a full complement of people here as well. Even if we need to get a replacement, we won't be lynching without claims.Success breeds suspicion-
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Except that about half the game is inactive. Look at how long it took us to lynch Korais, despite the fact that he claimed scum, and was the last remaining member of a scum group, and so had no partners left. I'd say probability's pretty even right now.PeaceBringer wrote:IN fact it is more probable a GG role player would be a non submitter. Unless a SK role the BGs usually have an opportunity to have someone around to submit.Success breeds suspicion-
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If they're scum, no.
Seriously, though, this is in part an attempt to get everyone back into this game. There is sufficient reason to believe we have scum among the inactives, so that's worth probing. We're definitely not going to lynch anyone who isn't here.
Also, normally I'd actually count for a lurker list, but I don't have time today and it wouldn't really help much (replacements and vacations provide enough mitigating circumstances that the list won't be truly objective). Jaylen's been here, but not a frequent posted. I'd tend to add Yggdrasil to that list, then note that he, along with Gaspode and Shivan_Dragon, have been on vacation at some point during this game. (I think Uraj and Djinn have been too, but Djinn's been gone since getting back and never did get around to actually participating despite a promise to contribute, which is why my vote's there.)Success breeds suspicion-
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Dude. Here's some Official J.R.R. Tolkein pipeweed. Have some and take it down a notch.
I'm not thrilled with the two replacements either in terms of scumminess, but I'd rather go after the lurkers on my previous logic and wait to see if either of them makes a mistake.
Very true. Which is whyInternet Stranger wrote:Feeding the masses scum doesnt make them any smarter.I, at least, try to explain why I think people are scum when I feed them to the masses.Success breeds suspicion-
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That isn't down enough notches.
Masses. Of people. Just feeding them scum and saying, "Vote for him," doesn't help them figure out how to pick out scum. Which was my point -- I explain why I think people are scum, both because I don't expect people to take my analyses on faith, and because it might help people become better scum hunters.
And why wouldn't you feed scum to the masses? If you've caught one, it's pretty much what you're supposed to do.Success breeds suspicion-
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- Location: Nairobi, Kenya
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Yaw Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: February 9, 2004
- Location: Nairobi, Kenya
Ask and ye shall receive.
Those not posting since day 3 dawned:
Corsato
drummer97531
Gaspode
indentureddjinn
Lord Gurgi
Murk
Narninian
Shivan_Dragon
Uraj45
Those not posting since day 2 dawned:
Gaspode
indentureddjinn
Murk
Uraj45
Those with excuses (posted here or V/LA thread):
Lord Gurgi in Ireland until August 24
Narninian on road trip for a week until August 19 (apx)
Corsato has access possibly limited until Sunday
Uraj45 away until August 16/17
Gaspode on vacation until August 14/15(?)Success breeds suspicion-
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Yaw Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: February 9, 2004
- Location: Nairobi, Kenya
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Yaw Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: February 9, 2004
- Location: Nairobi, Kenya
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Yaw Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Yawesome
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: February 9, 2004
- Location: Nairobi, Kenya
I'm not ignoring active scum. I'm still looking for evidence in players' posts. It's just that the evidence right now points to a significant number of scum being inactive. Would you prefer we let them go through another day without any pressure, CoolBot? When exactly is it acceptable to you to go after the scum that aren't active? What's the big difference in lynching active or inactive scum? In my opinion,anylynch of scum is good for the town.
I would much rather have activity and catch the scum similar to how I got Korais. But since we don't have activity, we need to get the lurkers here so they can generate posts and we can determine if they're scum or not.
Besides, Ihaveenough evidence against Djinn to justify a vote. He's lurking, and steadfastly refused to participate day 1 in any way. That's certainly enough to warrant suspicion.Success breeds suspicion-
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Yaw Yawesome
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Yaw Yawesome
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First, vote count please?
Second, in the interest of completeness, Quailman posted this in the Free Market Queue:
Of course he also hasn't posted since day 2, which wasQuailman wrote:indentureddjinn started band camp Monday the 16th, so don't expect to see him this week...wellbefore the 16th, and there's no explanation of that. I think there's enough information there for a mod decision, at least for this case.Success breeds suspicion-
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Yaw Yawesome
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- Location: Nairobi, Kenya
The problem, CoolBot, is that since there weren't any deaths last night, it's pretty clear that a lot of scumaren'tsending in their night choices (while I do think there are docs out there, and potentially other roleblocking roles, I don't think there are enough of them or that they're good enough to block 3 to 4 kills). That's corroborated by the mod claim that there were a depressing number of night choices. While you seem content to have this game get to a point where our ability to lynch scum is hampered by too many inactives, I am not.
In addition, I catch scum by what they've posted. If people aren't posting, I can't catch scum. So I see going after lurkers at this point as necessary. When exactly were you planning to get the lurker issue resolved, CoolBot? Were you content to just let them ride the game out? Perhaps you think we should be determining which of the lurkers are scum through psychic powers instead of lynch pressure?
I am starting to see IS's point.FOS: CoolBotSuccess breeds suspicion-
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Yaw Yawesome
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Yaw Yawesome
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Ooo, I like tearing down revisionist history.
Let's look back at day 1, shall we?
I was the first one on the jediknight-wagon, stayed on it up to 10 votes and a role claim. Then I posted this in post 133:
You'll note there's no unvote. There's no unvote until the next day. Now, at 10 votes, 11 when I unvoted, you certainly can't say I jumped off when the town decided to look hard at jediknight. I was contributing the entire time that bandwagon was gathering steam, and never once did I defend him. It was apparent jediknight was being lynched by the post I just quoted,Yaw wrote:We're at 10 votes with 13 to lynch. I would much prefer if we don't end this day before everyone has the chance to comment. I didn't expect this bandwagon to be so fast or decisive. Ideally, by the time we go into night, every role should have at least one post. Otherwise, we're just going to run into problems in coming days.beforeI unvoted. I think my actions point clearly to my unvoting being only a temporary measure to try to allow everyone in the game to contribute. Would you have preferred I advocate quick lynching? Those arenevergood for the town. Even if they result in a scum lynch (as this one did), lynching fast reduces the amount of information to analyze, which means less chance of catching scum in the long run.
Either you are misremembering, CoolBot, or lying. I'm leaning toward the latter.Success breeds suspicion-
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Yaw Yawesome
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Yaw Yawesome
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- Posts: 3171
- Joined: February 9, 2004
- Location: Nairobi, Kenya