Cultafia: Game over
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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That is why the vig should kill them again.Norinel wrote:
Cult LeaderYou are the [cultname] Cult Leader. Every night, you may attempt to recruit one player into your cult or kill one player. Once you have fellow cultists, you may discuss with them at night, but the ultimate decision and responsibility to PM is yours. If you die, the cult may neither kill nor recruit; however,you are immune to the first attempt to kill you at night.
You win when your cult cannot be eradicated, or such a situation is inevitable.
(In my games, I prefer to be kept in the loop on Night discussion; if you get the chance to communicate, please keep me in touch somehow: give me a link to a forum, or CC me on PMs, or whatever)Serial KillerYou are a Serial Killer. Each night, you may kill someone. You are completely immune to investigations and cult recruitment, andthe first attempt to kill you at night will fail.
You win when you are the last person standing.
Actually, could I get some mod clarification on this? Does this mean
A) The first night kill attempt on them that game or
B) The first NK attempt each night.
I'm assuming A.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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BTW, CKD, I notice you have yet to use your Nibbler avatar.
http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... e:1034.jpgAway Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Flawed logic. Every lynch you want to aim for the recruiter or SK, not a recruit. Hitting a recruit is only a bit better than a mislynch.Blazerunner wrote: -He is telling the truth, and is probably going to be recruited, and should be lynched so it doesnt happenAway Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Except theres no doctor to block actual kills, just recruits.Yosarian2 wrote:Good thinking, Armlx. The only other reason I can see why a vig kill is likely to fail is if the person is doc-protected, but hopefully the vig's targeting suspicious people and the doc's targeting pro-town-looking people, so that's probably not all that likely.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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I like how TSS is calling 2 random votes a band wagon.
I'd be more inclined to look at the mnowax wagon, as theres some half logic there people can latch on to (no random vote).
However, while TSS's case is baseless, Runner has acted fairly scummy since the case was presented.
Thinking time.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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This is the quote that worries me the most, as Blazes subsequent posts, especially the one regarding TSS's allegations, seem much more informed about basic mafia strategy.Blazerunner wrote: But perhaps lynching is really not a good idea, we might just remember "that guy claimed and probably was already recruited" and lynch him after the recruiter.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Vikingfan: Edit By Way of Double Post.
BTW, we aren't saying lynching recruits is bad, its just that lynching recruit after recruit gets you nowhere fast.
Yos:
Unvote
Sorry, actually mixed up the overreacting thread with the OMGUS thread.
Blaze:
You pick up on things like TSS saying you need to die, yet suggest bad lynch plans. Thats the contradiction that gets me the most.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Vikingfan: Read the roles again. Cult can choose to kill or recruit each night, but only if the Leader is still alive. If the Leader is dead, they can't do anything.
Mnowax: My definition of good there is +EV compared to lynching a town role.
FOS Mnowaxfor suggesting the best strategy is to lurk. It's a prisoners dilemma, and you just suggested the best strategy is for one party to turn on the other (Cult presumably wins with townie who back stabbed), where the actual highest expected value for everyone is if everyone works (whole town wins).Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Blaze:
"Claimed townie should die" is bad as you are lynching A) a townie or B) a recruit. Both are not good ways to win.
The point about TSS saying you need to die is valid.
About my statement: The two things I pointed out show contradictory levels of pro-town thought. Catching the "must die" is good town play, the bad lynch plans are bad. This suggests you know what you are doing and are purposefully trying to lead us into bad plans.
Edit mid-train of thought: I'm an idiot.
Unvote, Vote Blazerunner.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Norinel wrote:WatcherYou are a Watcher. Each night, you may watch one other player; I will inform you of who, if anyone, targets them with any night actions.
You win when any threats to the town are eliminated, or if you join a cult before its takeover is inevitable.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Voll, the example you cite was after I made the argument, and I commented on it as it occurred.. The real one I cited in first making the argument was his attack on TSS, especially how he points out minutia like "Blaze must die" as odd things.vollkan wrote: After reading the armlx-blaze exchange, I dislike armlx's suggestion that blaze shows he has some knowledge about the game (at least more than his ideas would suggest) based on...the fact that Blaze knows what wifom is. That's the only evidence he gives to suggest knowledge of the game when, in fact, newbies can very easily be exposed to the concept of wifom (it isn't exactly a complex idea). It looks like armlx is trying to paint blaze as less of a newb.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Even if it is true, its not like we are going to take his word over Mno's without a massively drastic reason.Yosarian2 wrote:
Unless it's true...armlx wrote:BR: You saying "Mno is lying if he claims to have investigative results on me" is dumb.
Anyway, I think we need to here from Mnowax now.
However, I believe such a reason may be arising given Mno refuses to claim his role in a game with open roles.....Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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If the rules didn't insinuate multiple cults I would agree. However, a cult sacrificing one of its members for 2 "wasted" (read: not cult leader or SK) lynches automatically loses the race with the other cult especially since their best weapon against the other is what is getting wasted. The cult recruit's team isn't gaining the most value out of the play, the (presumed) other cult and (presumed) SK are gaining the most.Yosarian2 wrote:
In a normal game, I would agree with you. But in a game like this, I could see a random cult recruit intentionally sacrificing himself in order to cause one random mislynch; it might not be a bad trade for the cult in this game.armlx wrote: Even if it is true, its not like we are going to take his word over Mno's without a massively drastic reason.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Agree.the silent speaker wrote: I ... am content to hear out mnowax before doing anything drastic.
Another good thing about this scenario is it rules out mno as a good lynch target. Either he is town A) telling the truth or B) running a gigantic gambit or a recruit. None of those is an optimal lynch candidate, correct?Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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I do not like this post, especially since I explained why Mno is not a good lynch earlier (recap: either he is town or recruit, not SK or Recruiter).vikingfan wrote:I like believing mnowax at the moment...if he's wrong, he's immediately on the chopping block tomorrow and rightfully so. and if he's right, we lynch a scum.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Fair enough Yosarian. I've never actually been in a game where the cult lived past D3. Though in retrospect only 1 has been because the cult leader wasn't night killed, so I should have figured that out.
Unvote
So, people to not lynch today:
Blazerunner: (Vig/SK)
Mno (Recruit/Watcher/ Townie with massive balls)
Have to think from there.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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armlx Most JDTay-like
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Meh, irrel for the purposes of that list. Not like either of you is a recruiter.Blazerunner wrote:
Funny how you dont even consider mno might be lying and guilty, and I might not be a killing class.armlx wrote: So, people to not lynch today:
Blazerunner: (Vig/SK)
Mno (Recruit/Watcher/ Townie with massive balls)Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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You said it yourself: He could be a cultist on a gambit. Last I checked, we wanted to lynch cultrecruitersnot cultists (akarecruits). We've been over this. The odds a cult leader would have balls that big to just out and fake claim on the hope we don't lynch either of you for this reason are between 0 and -infi.
The scenario I didn't write up is if Mno is a recruit you are technically a mystery box, but mystery box is still low odds of being the non-Mno recruiting recruiter.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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TSS: I can't even explain how bad that play would be. Its terrible on so many levels such as A) if its a cult leader hes going to have to explain why they would kill and why there was no SK kill, B) there's most likely more than 2 (SK+ other cult leader) steadfasts, so its losing odds on hitting the SK and C) he is claiming it so poorly people wanted to lynch him.
I'm actually with Occult here. Also of note: You still vote Blaze despite all the evidence of why he's not a good lynch. This looks too much like the old you setting the ball for Mno to claim and rush a lynch if people pile on Blaze.
Vote TSSAway Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Wow, good catch there Nab.
TSS's last post seems a lot like he's trying to buddying up to the people attacking him, especially as he cites me as someone he agree with on Mno being incorrect when I didn't even care about that possibility until Yos2 brought up that even if Mno isn't lying Blaze isn't a good lynch.
I never argue with D1 role based lynch reasons unless there's a VERY good reason, and Mno definitely implied he had that.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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That last post is so insane, I don't know what to think.
Cult recruit narrowing down the possibilities for who their cult leader is?
Directing 2 town roles and a scum group? The real reason vigging you might be bad is the vig probably wants to hunt down cult leaders/sk's, not recruits, not that the watcher should be watching you.
I guess this probably makes Mno the other recruit then, or a lying steadfast who is trying to pull a rediculous gambit. First seems most likely IMO.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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The vig is really just a every other night cop that if they miss has bad consquences for us. I'm thinking that rather than a miss, the auto take down of a single recruit might help slow the cults down a bit, though it might just weaken one cult on accident while the other runs rampant.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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To be 100% honest, I'm not sure. Looking back I assumed the cult leaders could talk to new recruits as they were recruited at night, but its technically not night by that point.vollkan wrote:
Maybe I missed something...How does it work that recruitMno would know to pull something like this on blaze?armlx wrote: I guess this probably makes Mno the other recruit then, or a lying steadfast who is trying to pull a rediculous gambit. First seems most likely IMO.
I guess Mno could have just tried to run it on his own, but I'm doubting that.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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I trust mno's info less than Blaze, mainly because mno hasn't said anything real yet and has based his accusation on information he "can't tell us". Also, based on another ongoing game, I believe Mno has a tendency to lie. Not sure if its a scum or null tell yet, but it seems like this is common for him.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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K, now that I just reread a 60 pg game to replace into, I got to look back at this one, and I'm confident this is the right call.
Unvote, Vote Vikingfan.
While TSS's statements probably lead mno to his actions and were a little too assertive, upon reread I think vikingfan statements have
A) felt temporally awkward aka just often enough to not be lurking.
B) pushed bad/easy wagons (kat and blaze)
My TSS vote was also based on a partial rules misunderstanding.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Because those that claim pro-town recruitable roles, especially power roles that don't harm the SK such as the cop, create massive WIFOMs as instead of dying and being death confirmed, they can become scum. Non-recruitable roles claiming simply lowers the target pool for the cult(s) to hit recruitables.springlullaby wrote:Yosarian, I'm not getting why claiming is bad, please re-explain it for me.
I'm pretty sure death via lynch is still < potential cult recruitment, but claiming outside of that scenario is not helping the town.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Or you are lying and alive, and he is just a recruit. Just saying "If he lives the night, he is scum" has so many levels of WIFOM associated with it that its impossible to trust.mnowax wrote: secondly, if he is still alive tomorrow, you have your lynch target.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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Most of it is based on conjecture from the fact the rules have so many rulings for multiple cults ie. Cult Leader role pm having you are the [cultname] cult, rulings on multiple recruit attempts on 1 person a night, etc.vollkan wrote:
Did I miss somewhere in my readup where it was concluded that there are definitely two cults?Skruffs wrote: Secondarily, I think 2 cults AND an sk seems like a bit much; if they were successful, then we just started the game with 33% scum and if we lynch wrong today, we wind up going to day 2 with 7/14(or 1 or 12) which is 50% scum which means an almost guaranteed scum win. I don't think a sane mod would use a setup which even, theoretically, COULD put the town in lylo day 1.
Skruffs: Lynching recruits is definitely poor. The recruit's cult ends even on members the next morning, other cults end +1 member, and SK's kill someone. End result is just town -2/3 people, equivalent to a mislynch in a non cult game. I'm sure this has been discussed before in this game, but you may not have gotten to it given your blaze sentiments atm.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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I'm pretty sure it breaks the pretty golden rule of "Play to win" as well.NabakovNabakov wrote:
Why would he do that? Claimed or not, he's still cult.Stark wrote: Blown away by Blazeriders big confession post. What is odd to me is why blaze didn't out his cult leader. Is this forbidden?Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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He my second choice. He's acting a lot more like how I would expect a cult leader to act, as well as lurking more here than other games I'm in with him.
On second thoughts, if I have doubts about vikingfan's behavior being leaderish, why the hell am I not voting spring.
Unvote, Vote springAway Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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The second is just scum like in general, but the first is cult leader like as typically their game plan is to just live for a few nights, at which point everything resolves itself well for them.vollkan wrote:
I don't see what is particularly "cult leader-like" about attacking the list. I don't even think it is necessarily scummy - I can think it reasonable for town to react with suspicion of something so odd as what I did. I can also fathom scum trying to look busy by attacking it. Anyway, it doesn't strictly suggest CL, does it?Armlx wrote: The case against spring is he has really been holding back all game until this last post, and he attacked vollkan for his list. Both very cult leader-like behaviors.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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I was actually using Darkstalkers as a comparison. I didn't even remember you were in R1000 until you posted there earlier today.
Also, the ideal scum looks as townie as possible, but that is hard to do while still playing to win, especially without other people to back you up. It's much easier to not look scummy by not doing anything that could implicate you.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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I believe the only thing I can say about this post is DING!Yosarian2 wrote:
I explained why I think mnowax is probably telling the truth. Yeah, it was a dumb claim to make, but it'd be an even dumber lie to make.springlullaby wrote:Unvote, Vote: Yosarian2
I didn't like his reaction to mnowax' claim, I'm liking his casual dismissal to my comment even less.
Then again, it looks like you just don't like it that one pro-town person is trusting another, because that messes with your plans, since after this post on your part I'm much more certain that you're scum.
Nice attempt at a WIFOM defense there. You're basically doing the "if I was scum I would want to act more pro-town" defense here, and that's just pointless.Your reasoning about how cult leader would play is also full of BS and WIFOM.
If I were a cult leader, I would want to play in the most town-like manner possible, so as to leave no possible angle of attack for as long as possible.
No, that's just wrong. It's not just "scummy in general", it's scummy like a scum who dosn't want to be at all noticed, with is more cult leader like then cult recruit like.Both are plausible, so you see, my behavior can be only be said to be scummy in general.
Besides, if even you're admitting that you've acted "scummy in general", then I think it's time for avote:springlullaby.
Especally after this post, it's becoming quite clear that you're the scum./
Oh? Annoyed we figured it out, are you? Or are you trying to say you're actually some other kind of scum?The fact that want to imply that I'm a cult leader when my play can't possibly tell you that makes me find you very scummy indeed.
...I'd like wagon on Yosarian2 and armlx, they have voiced both crap theories about not claiming and stuff.
Crap theories? What? Claiming is bad this game most of the time, unless you're about to get lynched. It was a bad move when monowax did it, and it'd be an even worse move for anyone else to do it unless they were under threat of lynch, and even then only if their claim was likely to prevent the lynch.
I'm sure that a cult leader like you would like it if all the recruitable pro-town roles would just stand up and claim now, but it's not going to happen.Away Wednesday the 24th through the 31st-
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