Nomic: Wiki Edition --- Finished (More or Less)
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Let me look at the current proposals.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 307STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Abstain 303
VOTE: Yeah 306STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Proposal 308: Whenever a player makes a proposal, that player automatically votes Yea thereon by default.
VOTE: Yea 308STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Treat 308 as void. I'm on my phone and didn't notice it was basically already there as a rule.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Proposal 310: Players may withdraw proposals they have made that they no longer support. A withdrawn proposal automatically fails. If this proposal passes while Proposal 308 is still pending, that proposal shall automatically be withdrawn and fail.
VOTE: Yea 309STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Amended Proposal 310: Players may withdraw proposals they have made that they no longer support by bolding "Withdraw ###", where ### is the number of the proposal that the player wishes to withdraw. A withdrawn proposal automatically fails. If this proposal passes while Proposal 308 is still pending, that proposal shall automatically be withdrawn and fail.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Nay 311, at least until the points thing is sorted out.
I like the idea in #68. A one-point penalty for rule violations seems the most reasonable with the existing system—less than that and you're dealing with fractional points, which are more difficult to work with; more than that seems extreme with the current point system in place.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Very well, then.In post 83, Ircher wrote:StrangerCoug, you can just vote nay to proposal 308 and kill it that way.
VOTE: Nay 308STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Wiki updated to reflect #308 voted down now.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 312
Proposal 313: A player may vote "[Yea/Nay] with reservations" on any proposal made after this rule, which shall henceforth be known as a vote with reservations. A player who does so should, but is not required to, explain the reservations the player holds that prevent an unqualified vote. A vote with reservations is indistinct from a normal vote for the purposes of calculating the number of votes needed to pass a proposal.
I liked this rule from last time, and I think it'll encourage discussion on the merits of proposals.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I have a draft proposal for another currency idea, but even though there's room for one more proposal, I already have two active and I don't want to be seen as keeping other people from making proposals.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 314
I'd like to think more about 315 when I don't have to get ready for work, but for now VOTE: Yea 315.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I think Deimos27's vote passes 312, by the way.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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The currency proposal that I have drafted gives everyone a starting amount. I may make it into a formal proposal after work if there's an open proposal slot then.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I count four active proposals, so:
Proposal 316: There is hereby created a currency called Nomic dollars, whose symbol shall be N$. Upon passage of this proposal, every current player, regardless of activity, shall earn N$1,000. Every new player who joins after the passage of this proposal shall thereby earn N$1,000. Every day at 00:00 UTC, every active player shall earn N$100. How many Nomic dollars each player has shall be noted in the Player Statuses section of the wiki.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I mean, I'm open to playing around with the numbers a bit. I didn't want the math involved to be too difficult for us who will have to keep track of it.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 318STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Well, it's been passed already, but it's still a good rule.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Proposal 319: There is hereby created an items shop, from which players may use Nomic dollars to buy items. Players may make motions to add items to the shop. Such motions must include a price for each item in Nomic dollars (although the same price can apply to multiple items) as well as a use effect for each item. Items so added for sale are removed therefrom when the motion adding them expires unless otherwise stated in the motion adding the item.
Modified a bit from the proposal adding weapons and armor shops in the last game, but the basic idea is the same.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 320
VOTE: Yea 321STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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So far I don't have any objections to it.In post 149, Deimos27 wrote:Any opinion on the central bank Coug?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I would have to think about whether it could use some improvement. I'm phoneposting on lunch break right now.In post 151, StrangerCoug wrote:
So far I don't have any objections to it.In post 149, Deimos27 wrote:Any opinion on the central bank Coug?
VOTE: Yea M001
VOTE: Yea 322
VOTE: Yes 323STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 324STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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That would be a good idea now that you bring it up. Since the way Nomic dollars are introduced is effectively inflationary in nature, it might be necessary to allow changing item prices to account for it.In post 190, Deimos27 wrote:It would be useful if the central bank were to publish updates also on stats such as the daily or weekly percentage increase of the money supply, to inform pricing decisions on shop items. I would certainly volunteer to do so if I were elected to the board regardless of whether it is an officially required duty.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Oh, and don't forget to give all the active players N$100 after (expired on 2021-11-02 00:00:00).STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Aye 325
VOTE: Aye M002 as amended.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Why are inactive players getting money? Shouldn't tris still be at N$1,000 and Charles510 at N$1,100?STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I went and fixed it in the wiki.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Proposal 326: There is hereby added a fourth page to the Nomic: Wiki Edition article on the MafiaScum Wiki, which is hereby titled "Shops", and which shall contain all the shops currently in operation in the game. Each shop shall have its own section. Each shop's section shall list the items it currently has for sale, each item's current price in at least one currency accepted by the shop, and any other information relevant to each item's availability (e.g. the quantity remaining of Limited Supply items and the date and time of the removal of sale of Limited Time items).STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Buy 2 vote couponsSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I'd like to come up with some more ideas for shop items. As it is, I'm having a hard time coming up with stuff on my own that wouldn't require rule amendments.
Proposal 327: Rule 214 is hereby amended to read as follows: The first player to reach 100 points wins the game unless there cease to be any remaining active players except for the moderator prior to that point, in which case the player with the most points wins the game. In the event of a tie, the first player to reach the winning total wins the game.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea M003STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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It might be addressable by a rule that says proposals and motions cannot be clearly designed to give one player an unfair advantage, but the problem with that is that we'd have to define and agree upon what "an unfair advantage" is.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I think a cap would prevent that scenario. We'd have to address what happens when a player has too many vote coupons because of changes in how many constitutes a simple majority (or even with the passage of the proposal, since I have two vote coupons and would currently have one too many).In post 252, Deimos27 wrote:Or rather simple majority - 2 cause your own vote counts for oneSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Let me sleep on 329. I do like recruitment bonuses in principle; it's the implementation I'd like more time to think about.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Nay 329
VOTE: Aye 331
VOTE: Aye 332
VOTE: Aye 333
VOTE: Nay M004STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 334
VOTE: Yea 335
VOTE: Yea 336
And that should pass them all.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Sorry; kinda forgot about this game.
VOTE: Yea 338
VOTE: Yea 339
VOTE: Abstain M005STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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For a moment I thought it was a draft for a rule proposal and was going to say that we would need to agree on a definition of "well-thought out" to be a good, objective rule, but then I realized that knowledge points were your currency, so I don't think it's as important to formalize that definition. Right now I'm about ready to fall asleep, which is probably why I misinterpreted as a rule draft.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I am in favor of changing the electoral rules some, and I do see Deimos27's argument as to how I could have benefited by not submitting a vote. I do like Jake's idea of ranked-choice voting and would like to see how he plans to implement it before I chime in with my idea.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I don't think there's an issue with dispensing with formalities here and doing voting in thread unless there's a compelling need for secrecy.In post 382, Ircher wrote:In post 341, Deimos27 wrote:Intuitively I'd like making decisions elsewhere to keep this thread streamlined on legislation but I also appreciate that it decreases transparency and might be less convenient than having everything related to the game in the same place.
Thoughts on this StrangerCoug? I'm in favor of not really doing formal voting simply because that can needlessly slow things down. As to hosting it elsewhere, I don't think it is too much of a distraction to just do it in the thread. Ideally, we aren't going to be ruling on too much anyway.In post 342, Deimos27 wrote:I'd say formal voting is unnecessary if we get verbal consensus from everyone, and in general we should aim for such consensus first and use formal majority voting as a last resort.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Maybe, or perhaps N$1 = 25 kr as an alternative if we think that 20 crowns to the Nomic dollar overvalues the crown a bit. I'd like to know what's on Deimos's mind as regards a fair exchange rate.In post 386, Ircher wrote:Also, the board should decide on an exchange rate for Crowns and Knowledge Points. I am currently thinking maybe N$1 = 50 KP for now would be reasonable. For crowns, since there are less of them, perhaps N$1 = 20 kr would be a good initial exchange rate. I expect these exchange rates to improve over time as the owner's supply of the currency decreases with time.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I agree.In post 390, Jake The Wolfie wrote:In addition, it should be impossible for a player to have more than X voting power through any methods.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Well, last game, we transmuted the rule about joining to ensure that anybody could join. While I don't think anybody would feel left out by the current rule being mutable since we haven't contemplated, oh, outright closing signups to everybody, it might help with reassurance.In post 396, Ircher wrote:We need more proposals. Anyone have some?
Proposal 340: Rule 212 is hereby transmuted to immutable.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I confirm being OK with it.In post 408, Deimos27 wrote:
Coug confirm this still?In post 399, Deimos27 wrote:Let's do N$1 = 50KP for now I'm ok with that
VOTE: Yea 341STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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1 is talking about Euthypro's dilemma (sorry if I butchered the spelling of his name), so Euthypro for the ancient author.In post 411, Deimos27 wrote:Exchange N$10 for 500KP
Ok my questions have the same ruleset as Ircher's. The theme is ancient Greek and Roman literature.
1. "Divine command theory" grounds morals in the word of a deity (i.e. it answers the question "what is good?" with "that which [deity] commands"). A famous dilemma for divine command theory can be paraphrased roughly as follows: is x good because the gods judge that it is good, or do the gods judge that x is good because it is good?
10KP for the name of the author of the ancient work in which this dilemma first appeared. 10KP for the title of the work. 10KP if you can explain why this might be considered a dilemma for divine command theory.
2. "Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres..." is how one famous ancient work begins in its original language.
10KP for the name of the author. 10KP for the title of the work (you may give it in English). 10KP for an approximate translation of the quoted phrase.
I believe 2 is by Cicero and means "All Gaul is divided into three parts".
Shoot me if I know either work title off the top of my head, but I swear I've heard of them both.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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Exchange N$10 for 500KP as well
In the process of coming up with questions, expect me to take awhile to think of good ones.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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I agree.
VOTE: Yea 342STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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VOTE: Yea 343STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Let's try these questions for size. Same rules apply as with Ircher's and Deimos27's question, and these are all math and science questions. For questions with math involved, you must show your work to receive any credit.
- A 1,600 kg car is traveling due north at 60 km/h when it collides perfectly inelastically with an 1,800 kg car traveling due east at 50 km/h. For 10 KP each:
- What is the total momentum of both cars?
- What is the velocity of both cars immediately following the collision?
- What is the total kinetic energy lost by both cars in the collision?
- What is the total momentum of both cars?
- Take the chemical equation Na2CO3 + HCl → NaCl + H2O + CO2. For 10 KP each:
- Balance the above equation.
- Give the names of both reactants and of all three products.
- This is a two-stage reaction. What type of reaction is each stage?
- Balance the above equation.
- I want to purchase a car that costs $25,000. The sales tax is 7.5% added to the price of the car. The title, registration, and other fees cost me $500. I make a down payment of 10% of the price of the car (before taxes and fees) and take out auto loan with a term of 60 months at 5% simple interest for the balance, with the tax and fees bundled into the loan. Loan payments are due monthly. For 10 KP each, to the nearest cent:
- How much will the auto loan be for?
- How much is each monthly payment?
- What is the total interest I will pay on the loan?
- How much would I save over the life of the loan if, instead of the taxes and fees being bundled into the loan, I were required to pay the taxes and fees upfront with my 10% down payment (all else being equal)?
- How much will the auto loan be for?
STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I'll give full credit.In post 431, Ircher wrote:a. We want the same number of each molecule on both sides, and ideally, we want integer numbers here. So with that in mind,
we have 2 hydrogens on the right but only one on the left, so we will want at least 2 HCl for every H2O we have. We also need twice as many NaCl as we have Na2CO3 so the quantities of Na are equal. With those constraints and some guessing-and-checking, I come to the following equation:
2 Na2CO3 + 4 HCl yields 4 NaCl + 2 H2O + 2 CO2Give 10 KP to Ircher. If you wanted to simplify the balanced equation, you could write Na2CO3 + 2 HCl → 2 NaCl + H2O + CO2.
That is incorrect.In post 431, Ircher wrote:b. Disodium carbon trioxide + Hydrocloride yields Sodium Chloride + Dihydrogen Monoxide + Carbon DioxideSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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You forgot the division sign when calculating the northbound component of the velocity of part b, but everything else is a good approximation of what I get.Give 49 KP to Deimos27.
The second two parts of the chemistry problem and the second two parts of the auto loan problem are still up for grabs.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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I realize 3b might have been a bit unclear whether the monthly payments were inclusive or exclusive of interest, so I'll givethe 1 KP I withheld from Deimos27actually, let's up it to a full 10 KP to whoever can tell me what the monthly payment is inclusive of interest.Last edited by StrangerCoug on Sun Nov 07, 2021 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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In post 429, StrangerCoug wrote:Let's try these questions for size. Same rules apply as with Ircher's and Deimos27's question, and these are all math and science questions. For questions with math involved, you must show your work to receive any credit.
- A 1,600 kg car is traveling due north at 60 km/h when it collides perfectly inelastically with an 1,800 kg car traveling due east at 50 km/h. For 10 KP each:
- What is the total momentum of both cars?
- What is the velocity of both cars immediately following the collision?
- What is the total kinetic energy lost by both cars in the collision?
- What is the total momentum of both cars?
- Take the chemical equation Na2CO3 + HCl → NaCl + H2O + CO2. For 10 KP each:
- Balance the above equation.
- Give the names of both reactants and of all three products.
- This is a two-stage reaction. What type of reaction is each stage?
- Balance the above equation.
- I want to purchase a car that costs $25,000. The sales tax is 7.5% added to the price of the car. The title, registration, and other fees cost me $500. I make a down payment of 10% of the price of the car (before taxes and fees) and take out auto loan with a term of 60 months at 5% simple interest for the balance, with the tax and fees bundled into the loan. Loan payments are due monthly. For 10 KP each, to the nearest cent:
- How much will the auto loan be for?
- How much is each monthly payment?
- What is the total interest I will pay on the loan?
- How much would I save over the life of the loan if, instead of the taxes and fees being bundled into the loan, I were required to pay the taxes and fees upfront with my 10% down payment (all else being equal)?
- How much will the auto loan be for?
Any other takers for 2b, 2c, 3b inclusive of interest, 3c, and 3d? I'll allow until 9:00 PM CST (that's in (expired on 2021-11-08 21:00:00)) for any more tries.In post 440, StrangerCoug wrote:I realize 3b might have been a bit unclear whether the monthly payments were inclusive or exclusive of interest, so I'll givethe 1 KP I withheld from Deimos27actually, let's up it to a full 10 KP to whoever can tell me what the monthly payment is inclusive of interest.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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VOTE: Yea 344STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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What Were You Thinking XV! is in progress.-
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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OK, time is up for my questions. Here are the remaining answers:
For the reactants and products of Na2CO3 + 2HCl → 2NaCl + H2O + CO2, Na2CO3 is disodium carbonate, HCl is hydrochloric acid, NaCl is sodium chloride (you probably have it in your kitchen—table salt is mostly sodium chloride), H2O is water (even though Ircher's response of "dihydrogen monoxide" is technically correct as well), and CO2 is carbon dioxide. Since Ircher gave valid IUPAC names of all the products, I willgive 5 KP to Ircher.
What's happening is a double displacement reaction (also called a double replacement reaction or a salt metathesis reaction) followed by a decomposition reaction. The double displacement reaction that happens first is Na2CO3 + HCl → 2NaCl + H2CO3 (H2CO3 is carbonic acid). The decomposition reaction that follows it is H2CO3 → H2O + CO2.
For the car loan, we have simple interest here, so our formula is I = Prt, where I is the interest paid, P is the principal (here $24,375), r is the rate (here 5%), and t is the number of periods. r and t must be in the same time units, and t is typically in years, so from here on out my work assumes the 5% rate is an annual rate (I should have specified that). Since 60 months is 5 years, that works out to $24,375 * 0.05 * 5 = $6,093.75 in interest, the answer to part c. That gets added to the $24,375 principal to obtain $30,468.75; dividing that by 60 months gets you $507.81/month; the answer to part b.
Here I paid $32,968.75 for the car, but part d asks: How much would I save by paying the taxes and fees upfront with my down payment? 10% of $25,000 is obviously $2,500, and 7.5% of it is $1,875. Add those to the $500 fees and that's $4,875 paid toward the car already. My loan would only be for $22,500, for which I'd pay $5,625 interest on according to the formula. $22,500 + $5,625 + $4,875 = $33,000, so here I'd actually incur a $31.25 loss—though if anyone sees any mistakes in my math, I'll give 10 KP to anyone who points it out.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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Ahh... That's where I messed up, then.Give 10 KP to Ircher.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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VOTE: Yea M006STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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What Were You Thinking XV! is in progress.-
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StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
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VOTE: Nay 345
I get the point of expedience that Jake is making, but it's a solution in search of a problem. The existing rule that you must transmute an immutable rule to mutable first is by design. If someone proposes to transmute an immutable rule to mutable, that person is probably against the rule being immutable to begin with.STRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
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