A Brief Treatise On Magickal Theory And Practice

[jeep]

Overall I like it... it will be interesting to see how the details flesh out.

-JEEP

[jeep]

I think that the ethical stuff should be stated pretty clearly with some room for error. If someone breaks the rules, then things can be handled by role playing. I think that is a good start. I'll repeat some of it below.

So basic areas of Taboo:
Mind Control / Slavery (love potions anyone?)
Necromancy
Sentient sacrifice
Stealing

Some more specifics and less well defined:
Using more than your fair share of the local resources -- if you draw all the fire in a region it can negatively affect some people.

Divination seems sufficiently weak in terms of direct results, that I'm not sure how much we need to worry about abuse except as marked above.

Can conjuration really get out of hand? This one seems to have some safeguards already built in. The description doesn't mention anything about being held to a standard of ethics.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Will there be "never transform others" in the code of ethics?

-JEEP

[jeep]

I'm keeping this for posterity, but skip down two, since I think we decided to make this an extra.

Here are some thoughts... I have a lot of "story" and other thoughts written down, but instead of posting a complete system, I thought I'd run this part by everyone.

Magic in the world of Amstaad is broken into five parts.

Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Spirit

The first four can be accessed only by people with a Sorcery Aspect. (shoudl we have four sorcery aspects instead of skills and have a set of skills for the types of spells?) This opens up the Sorcery Column. Spirit can be accessed by anyone, but each in their own way. With the Alchemy, Divination, or Conjuration Aspects you get another relevant pyramid. Sorcerers can only use spirit in the way that "everyone" can use spirit.

[col]Fire[col]Hot, Dry[col]Energy, assertiveness, passion, light, heat, "life" [col]Air[col]Hot, Wet[col]Mind, intellect, consciousness, communication, weather, "breath" [col]Water[col]Cool, Wet[col]Emotion, intuition, sea, "blood" [col]Earth[col]Cool, Dry[col]Body, practicality, restraint, materialism, sex, protection, "form" [col]Spirit[col]None[col]Exists in all places and cannot be moved, but naturally circulates through all things. See spirit magic, below. Spirit is the realm of life.

I'm considering if we should allow for making your own elements in a pinch… but it's got to be difficult.
As air becomes warm and rarefied, air becomes fire;
as it cools and condenses, it becomes water and then earth.

Elemental Magic:

Sorcery will open up the Skills Column. You automatically get:
• Need to determine the actual default

[col]Fire Magic[col]Mediocre [col]Air Magic[col]Mediocre [col]Water Magic[col]Mediocre [col]Earth Magic[col]Mediocre [col]Spirit Magic[col]None [col]Ritual Magic[col]Average

You do not need to follow the Pyramid, but a column instead. This means that you must have as many skills in the rank below to support the skill advancement. That is: To get Great Fire Magic, you must have Good in one of the other magics (which means you must have a fair in another, etc). This only applies to skills that are above "average". That is, you can advance to average in everything without keeping a mediocre. But to go to FAIR Fire Magic, you must have an Average level in another skill.

To make the skill pyramid more interesting, we might try:
If you want to learn a particular spell very well, you can add it as a skill. However, THAT skill will be used instead of the generic skill level. Notice that learning specific spells will help you increase your skills column, but you will be forced into using that skill level for that spell. The mods will decide the difficulty of the specific spell and you will start between abysmal to poor for that spell, depending on their decision.

As you can see it take significant study to become a great sorcerer, this will require that the main skills pyramid be a little lighter than other folks.

You make a challenge roll on the lowest skill level for the elements involved. You will need to make a case for why each element is included and why any are not considered. Remember you may need to "move" elements at the target for some effects and that element counts.


For simple spells the following modifiers will be considered.

• Have related non-magic skill: +1 for every level above average in that skill.
  
• Time to cast: +1 if you take your time, -1 if you rush
  
• Abundance of Elements: -1 is rare
  
• Significant compression of element: -1
  
• Only one element: +2
  
• Each element beyond 2: -1
  
• All (at least 2) Elements in equal amounts: +1
  
• Elements in differing amounts: -1
  
• Requires Finesse: -1
  
• Duration: +1 if instant, -1 if medium, -2 if long duration… OR can reroll the spell for long

For complex spells, spell casting is a Dynamic Challenge.

Generic Spell Challenge Components

Gather elements
Mix and Shape elements
Project effect
Take effect

The measure of success from each component will roll over to the next step.

Gather Elements Test

To cast spells, you will need to gather the appropriate resources. In general, the more dramatic the effect the more resources you need. If the resources are in great abundance relative to your need, the mod may automatically pass the test. But if not, you will need to pass a skill test for each element.

Roll against "Average"

The following modifiers should be used:
[col]Relative Quantity[col]Modifier [col]Great Abundance[col]Auto Pass [col]Very abundant[col]+2 [col]Abundant[col]+1 [col]Enough/Average[col]0 [col]Rare[col]-1 [col]Extremely rare[col]-2 [col]Non-existant[col]Auto fail

[col]time to gather[col]Modifier [col]Take extra time[col]+1 [col]Rush[col]-1

Mix and Shape Elements Test

Some spells are tricky. The more elements involved, the more difficult the spell (in general).
The mod will determine the complexity of the spell and add the following modifiers

• Significant compression of element: -1
  
• Only one element: +2
  
• Each element beyond 2: -1
  
• All (at least 2) Elements in equal amounts: +1
  
• Elements in differing amounts: -1
  
• Requires Finesse: -1

The MoS from this will apply to next step. -2 or less and you fail to make the elements mix.

Project Effect Test:

Holding the elements together correctly is difficult.

Roll with the following modifiers:

Your MoS from Mix Elements (The better the mixing, the better they stay together)

[col]Duration[col]Modifier[col]Example [col]Instant[col]+1[col]Spark (note that even with tinder, a spark is not guaranteed to start the fire) [col]Short[col]0[col]Light fire (you have to hold the fire together until the fire lights) [col]Medium[col]-1[col]Fireball (you have to hold it together until it hits your opponent) [col]Long[col]-2[col] Wall of fire- the mod may have you re-roll occasionally

[col]Range[col]Modifier[col]Description [col]Touch[col]+1[col]Within arms reach [col]Short [col]0[col]A couple steps [col]Medium[col]-1[col]An easy toss of a baseball by an average Joe [col]Long [col]-2[col]Within line of site [col]Out of site[col]-3 or impossible[col]You can't see it

Your MoS from this roll, will be a bonus/penalty for the Take Effect step.

Take Effect Test

You make a challenge roll against your target. Some targets have no resistance and in these cases, success is automatic. If you are casting on a sentient being, they always have some resistance.
[col]Bonus[col]Modifier [col]Willing recipient[col]+1


Your MoS may affect the strength or duration of the spell.

[jeep]

Okay, if we move to a single sorcery extra, then here are the parts left to discuss. My spirit magic will work the same way, so that is another bonus to doing that.

Magic in the world of Amstaad is broken into five parts:
Air, Water, Fire, Earth, Spirit

The first four can be accessed only by people with a Sorcery Aspect. This opens up the Sorcery Extra. Spirit can be accessed by anyone, but each in their own way. With the Alchemy, Divination, or Conjuration Aspects you get another relevant extra. Sorcerers can only use spirit in the way that "everyone" can use spirit.

[col]Fire[col]Hot, Dry[col]Energy, assertiveness, passion, light, heat, "life" [col]Air[col]Hot, Wet[col]Mind, intellect, consciousness, communication, weather, "breath" [col]Water[col]Cool, Wet[col]Emotion, intuition, sea, "blood" [col]Earth[col]Cool, Dry[col]Body, practicality, restraint, materialism, sex, protection, "form" [col]Spirit[col]None[col]Exists in all places and cannot be moved, but naturally circulates through all things. See spirit magic, below. Spirit is the realm of life.

I'm considering if we should allow for making your own elements in a pinch… but it's got to be difficult.
As air becomes warm and rarefied, air becomes fire;
as air cools and condenses, it becomes water and then earth.

Elemental Magic:

Sorcery Aspect will open up the extra skill of Sorcery that is not in the pyramid. It cannot every exceed your maximum pyramid skill by more than one rank.

For simple spells the following modifiers will be considered.

• Have related non-magic skill: +1 for every level above average in that skill.
  
• Time to cast: +1 if you take your time, -1 if you rush
  
• Relative Abundance of Elements: -1 is rare
  
• Only one element: +2
  
• Each element beyond 2: -1
  
• Requires Finesse: -1
  
• Duration: +1 if instant, -1 if medium, -2 if long duration… OR can reroll the spell for long

For complex spells, spell casting is a Dynamic Challenge.

Generic Spell Challenge Components

Gather elements
Mix and Shape elements
Project effect
Take effect

The measure of success from each component will roll over to the next step.

Gather Elements Test

To cast spells, you will need to gather the appropriate resources. In general, the more dramatic the effect the more resources you need. If the resources are in great abundance relative to your need, the mod may automatically pass the test. But if not, you will need to pass a skill test for each element.

Roll against "Average"

The following modifiers should be used:
[col]Relative Quantity[col]Modifier [col]Great Abundance[col]Auto Pass [col]Very abundant[col]+2 [col]Abundant[col]+1 [col]Enough/Average[col]0 [col]Rare[col]-1 [col]Extremely rare[col]-2 [col]Non-existant[col]Auto fail

[col]time to gather[col]Modifier [col]Take extra time[col]+1 [col]Rush[col]-1

Mix and Shape Elements Test

Some spells are tricky. The more elements involved, the more difficult the spell (in general).
The mod will determine the complexity of the spell and add the following modifiers

• Only one element: +2
  
• Each element beyond 2: -1
  
• All (at least 2) Elements in equal amounts: +1
  
• Elements in differing amounts: -1
  
• Requires Finesse: -1

The MoS from this will apply to next step. -2 or less and you fail to make the elements mix.

Project Effect Test:

Holding the elements together correctly is difficult.

Roll with the following modifiers:

Your MoS from Mix Elements (The better the mixing, the better they stay together)

[col]Duration[col]Modifier[col]Example [col]Instant[col]+1[col]Spark (note that even with tinder, a spark is not guaranteed to start the fire) [col]Short[col]0[col]Light fire (you have to hold the fire together until the fire lights) [col]Medium[col]-1[col]Fireball (you have to hold it together until it hits your opponent) [col]Long[col]-2[col] Wall of fire- the mod may have you re-roll occasionally

[col]Range[col]Modifier[col]Description [col]Touch[col]+1[col]Within arms reach [col]Short [col]0[col]A couple steps [col]Medium[col]-1[col]An easy toss of a baseball by an average Joe [col]Long [col]-2[col]Within line of sight [col]Out of sight[col]-3 or impossible[col]You can't see it

Your MoS from this roll, will be a bonus/penalty for the Take Effect step.

Take Effect Test

You make a challenge roll against your target. Some targets have no resistance and in these cases, success is automatic. If you are casting on a sentient being, they always have some resistance.
[col]Bonus[col]Modifier [col]Willing recipient[col]+1


Your MoS may affect the strength or duration of the spell.

[jeep]

Here are some thoughts for discussion. I'm still working through the nuts and bolts, but if anything here seems out of place, let me know. If you have any ideas, let me know.

Spirit Magic

Spirit magic is a quite a bit different. It can be accessed by ANYONE, but to varying degrees and most people don't even realize when it's being used. Spirit magic is split in three parts, the physical part- aether symbolized by Salt, the spiritual part- symbolized by sulfur and the conduit connecting the two- symbolized by mercury.

Aether is flowing through everything. (Think of the Force). However, it generally cannot be moved because of the link to the spirit side.

The alchemist is able to manipulate this link to make very small, subtle changes- however by doing so, he affects the nature of the universe. This is why you do not see big fancy shows like the Sorcerers have. Alchemists can see and manipulate the conduit between spirit and aether.

The diviner is able to use some method to see the aether. It cannot be seen by the naked eye, so generally some ritual is involved and the results are interpreted. The diviner works with Aether. Dourgrim has some examples of how various cultures have been able to see the course of Aether. It cannot be changed (except, indirectly, by alchemists).

The conjurer works with spirit. No one knows how al-Istari discovered the methods, but through his methods one is able to make out of body trips to the Astral Realms. The conjurer cannot manipulate spirit, instead he uses it to travel to other dimensions to deal with beings of various types.

By taking the aspect Spirit Magic, you can gain one of the following extras:
Alchemy, Divination, or Conjuration

This skill can be advanced by spending skill points on it, but cannot exceed your highest pyramid skill by more than one.

Conjuration is left solely up to the mod because I'm temporarily stumped. The conjurer can only have one item per aspect (and it doesn't refresh until the item is returned) plus one item per step above average. Basically I suggest the following modifiers:
Skip plot -1
Advance plot +1
Offering is less valuable to the "general" public: -1 or more depending on the value difference
Offering is more valuable to the "general" public: +1
+1 per "level" of the being… I don't know what beings will be available

Divination:
Many thoughts, but some conflict so I'm not sure yet.

Alchemy:
Like Sorcery, alchemy is a complicated skill. While the average alchemist can sense the spiritual nature of something, it's more difficult to determine how slight changes can affect things. Magical healing can only be performed by an alchemist. With their basic understanding of the nature of things, they will often know which herbs are better at healing, etc. As such, much of their more common magic is really just mundane application of knowledge gained by magic.

The difficulty of a spell depends on the amount of change that is being made to the item. Alchemy deals with the following 4 areas: Decomposition, Modification, Separation, and Union.

I see alchemists doing the following:
Making potions
"Setting" Magic (That is enchanting items… I see this as a ritual usually requiring a sorcerer. The sorcerer will apply elements in some way, and the alchemist will alter the properties of the item to match that)
Healing

All of alchemy seems more difficult than sorcery. I'll make a general template for each of these challenges. Simple potions and healing can probably be done in a single test, but complicated stuff might take more. For example, a potion of "cure cold" will be easier to create than a generic "potion of cure disease" since there are so many diseases that it would be more difficult to cure any of them.

Healing would involve seeing the nature of a person and then altering it to be the way it SHOULD be. The bigger the change, the more difficult.

[jeep]

I don't understand the comment about breaking this into three... it is split into three. I understand that there is no flavor in there to explain why they are exclusive. But they deal with spirit in different ways.

Ritual is the one that all magic users have and it's how they can work together. I don't see that being difficult to define, just so situational that the mods will be on the spot.

The key word for Alchemy in the original idea I had is "Nature". So I'm not sure going completely spirit quite works here. It's more like sorcery is fire/water/air/earth, conjuration is spirit, and alchemy is somewhere between the two (spirit in matter).

Isn't that how I had alchemy? It's the conduit between the physical and the spiritual that they affect.

So with conjuration you CAN bring it back? Interesting... so it's just if you bring something too powerful, you can't necessarily keep it here. Okay, I can work with that.

Doesn't the existing description indicate that there is a power struggle?

I'll talk about more when I return. Just my first thoughts.

-JEEP

-JEEP

[jeep]

Okay, so three aspects. That's not really a big deal. I like the flavor of them being the ways of accessing spirit for magic, though.

I think the "how long does stuff take" can be discussed. I think that healing wounds should take time relative to how bad the wound is. Actually, the amount of change that needs to be made is the key to determining how long it should take. The more it needs to change, the more time it should take.

-JEEP

[jeep]

More advanced conjurers learn how to direct the actions of Astral beings. It is possible for lesser conjurers to summon Astral beings -- and if the beings are sufficiently weak, to keep them around for a while -- but it is in many cases unwise as the beings will behave according to their own natural wills.

Doesn't this answer how we were thinking about it, at least?

-JEEP

[jeep]

Divination:

I think it's best to leave this simple.

Roll and compare the result to average. If the method is not the method they are used to give a -1. If it's related to something they are already fairly familiar with then give a +1.

Legendary - Give as much information as the story can bear without breaking
Epic - Give a LOT of information
Superb - Give a bit of information
Great - Give a little information
Good - Give a clue-by-four hint
Fair - Give a strong hint
Average - Hint at some information
Mediocre - Give a weak hint
Poor - Give a couple possible hints... some of the information false
Terrible - The information cannot be interpreted
Abysmal - Nothing happens

-JEEP

[jeep]

Conjuration

The conjurer can only have one item per aspect level.

The skill level will determine how easy it is for them to maintain the item

Basically I suggest the following modifiers:
Skip plot -1
Advance plot +1
Offering is less valuable to the "general" public: -1 or more depending on the value difference
Offering is more valuable to the "general" public: +1
Blood offering: +1
+1 per "level" of the being… I don't know what beings will be available

Does size have any bearing? If it's a being, then you need to roll for control...

I would suggest that the time taken be dictated by the MoS. Average could maybe take 30 seconds (time doesn't pass the same in the Astral Realms) and adjust from there?

I would also suggest that each night, the roll has to be made again to see if the item can be held overnight.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Alchemy:

Magical Healing:
I'd say depending on the severity of the wounds... I think the Alchemist should determine how much he wants to heal and then roll his skill.

Average: Takes 60 seconds per "injured" healed Adjust from there? On a poor or less, then the healing fails completely.

Mixing potions:
We will need to define the complexity of the potions. I think this needs to be done on a case by case basis. If it's pretty specific, then it should be easier. A potion to cure the flu will be easier than a potion to cure whatever disease the person has.

Enchanting stuff:
Pshew... again, depends on how much he is changing things. I think that using Ritual magic to "set" a spell that is being held by another would be the "easy way" and actually hardening the steel yourself (or whatever) would be harder than that.

If it's a subtle change, like making wood more dense, then it might be easier.

-JEEP

[jeep]

I don't like the "you have this many spell points" method. It seems like it will hinder the story in favor of mechanics. I was hoping it could be more along the lines of:
If your aspect remains unchecked, you can attempt to cast something. If you fail dramatically the aspect will become checked or if you use it to increase a roll, then you will have used up your magic for the day. I think it's nicely balanced that way since it allows magic users to do a lot of easy stuff, but not so much hard stuff.

One of the requirements for the magic system we're putting together is to have it free form. So we just need to figure out how to rate the difficult of a spell.

As to restricting opposing spell arenas, the older proposal of having a skill for each type of magic would do that. But I'm starting to lean away from that. The players can handle aptitude in one element or another in the story if they want. But I like the simplicity of just figuring out the difficulty and going from there. No need to add in the complexity of a characters aptitudes. If we want this, then I propose going back to a skill column with each elemental magic having it's own skill.

As to having a low MoF, you can attempt again, I think that's fine. But I lean towards "something happens, but it's not quite what you wanted."

-JEEP

[jeep]

So would this be acceptable for the final word on how divination works?

Divination:

Roll the skill.

If the method is not the method they are used to give a peanalty of

-2

, if the mod thinks it's WAY off, then it can be more off.
If it's related to something they are already fairly familiar with then give a +1 (it's easier to interpret).

If the result is:
Legendary - Give as much information as the story can bear without breaking
Epic - Give a LOT of information
Superb - Give a bit of information
Great - Give a little information
Good - Give a clue-by-four hint (sometimes people need to be hit with a clue-by-four)
Fair - Give a strong hint
Average - Hint at some information
Mediocre - Give a weak hint
Poor - Give a couple possible hints... some of the information false
Terrible - The information cannot be interpreted
Abysmal - Nothing happens

I'm wondering if this isn't a little too good, even. Might consider shifting the scale up one. At what level will the aspect become checked?

Also, I envision these taking 30-60 minutes.

-JEEP

[jeep]

Conjuration Updated (again)

The conjurer can only have one item per aspect level.

The skill level will determine how easy it is for them to get and maintain the item

If there are no distractions, then the attaining the item should auto pass if they have the offering.

If the offering is not correct, then roll skill. If you get better than good, you get the item. You get -1 for an unfamiliar offering, -1 more if the offering is of lesser value

If there are distractions, then I think:
An injury box being checked should bring you out of the trance.
less than that and you roll skill to see if you can maintain the trance.

Once you enter the trance, you will be "out" for 10 minutes or so? It takes 5 minutes to enter the trance if not distracted... longer if you are distracted.

You then roll for duration:
-1 if the item is living.

If the size is:
Finger sized +2
Fist sized +1
Body sized no bonus/penalty
Horse sized -1
House sized -2
Castle sized -3
Bigger: mod discretion

Legendary - Until returned, re-roll weekly or monthly at mod discretion.
Epic - 2 days, then re-roll
Superb - 1 day, then re-roll
Great - 1 day
Good - 12 hours or so
Fair - 8 hours or so
Average - 4 hours or so
Mediocre - 1 hour or so
Poor - 15 minutes or so
Terrible - a minute or so
Abysmal - Imperceptable
Abysmal-1 - Imperceptable and the aspect is checked (you may aw well use it to re-roll )


It the thing brought over has a will:
The mod will assign a will rating to the being and you need to challenge it's will vs your skill.

Legendary - Controlled for 1 week, re-roll for control then (if it happens to be around )
Epic - Controlled for 1 day, re-roll for control at that time
Superb - Controlled for 8 hours
Great - Controlled for 4 hours
Good - Controlled for 1 hour
Fair - Controlled for 1 round
Average - Uncontrolled for 1 round (average conjurers can bring things over, but cannot maintain them.)
Mediocre - Uncontrolled controlled for 1 hour
Poor - Uncontrolled for 4 hours
Terrible - Uncontrolled for 8 hours
Abysmal - Uncontrolled for 1 day

So you could bring a creature over and have it stay for a day, then take 8 hours (if you are terrible ompared to it's will) to get it under control. The rest of the time, you would be in control of it.

[jeep]

Alchemy Update:

Alchemy seeks self perfection. To do that, an Alchemist must study the nature of things. It's all well and good, but there needs to be a practical side so that the alchemists can make a living. To that end, they have three main pursuits:

Panacea

: Making a potion so potent that it completely cures everything. While they haven't found it yet, they are making great strides in caring for people and can make a healthy living as a doctor.

Transmutation

: Some think that making their own money out of random other stuff would be useful. However, not only is it generally frowned upon as a distratction to the pursuit of perfection, it takes a heck of a lot of energy. Most alchemists simply cannot make major changes to things.

Philosopher's Stone

: Creation of an element that is easily formed into anything else.... the stem cells of the universe.

This leads to three general areas that Alchemists focus on:

Magical Healing

:
I think the Alchemist should determine how much he wants to heal and then roll his skill.

My new thoughts are:
Legendary - 5 seconds per "injured"
Epic - 30 seconds per "injured"
Superb - 1 minute per "injured"
Great - 2 minutes per injured
Good - 5 minute per injured
Fair - 10 minutes per injured
Average - 20 minute per "injured"
Mediocre - 30 minutes per "injured"
Poor - 1 hour per "injured" attempted and half of the injuries heal
Terrible - 1 hour per injured and healing doesn't happen
Abysmal - 2 hours per injured and healing doesnt' happen

For disease, the mod will need to decide how difficult it is. Those are likely to be strictly story, anyway.

Enchanting stuff/Transmutation

:
Changing something into something else. Some changes will be fairly minor- like I think hardening (tempering) steel should be relatively easy. Some things will be hard- like the classical lead into gold.

Can this be left to the mod to determine how much of a change it is? We could build up a list as time goes on. Some things I might want to do and how difficult I think it should be:

Purify Water : Poor or better succeeds as well as boiling would while good might kill the stuff that boiling can't

Harden/soften Steel : Average or better succeeds?

Mixing potions

:
We will need to define the complexity of the potions. I think this needs to be done on a case by case basis. If it's pretty specific, then it should be easier. A potion to cure the flu will be easier than a potion to cure whatever disease the person has.

I think we should have magic involved as a catalyst so that random person on the street cannot just copy exactly what the Alchemist does. I wonder if we should have "exomagic" and "endomagic" reactions (as well as exothermic and endothermic)

[jeep]

It depends on what it takes to keep something here... but I can see that. I'll edit in a comment that the mod can create a penalty for larger stuff.

-JEEP

[jeep]

I say feel free to edit in substance too.

I'll work on some of the wordings. I just wanted a single place to put the "current" way things work.

The easiest solution would be that fire is life energy, while spirit is actual "soul" or consciousness. That's consistent while giving a clean break.

That's basically what I was thinking when I made it. I just didn't know how to word it.

I'll work on it some more tomorrow evening (unless I can't sleep, then I'll do it tonight.)

-JEEP