Micro 913: Radja's Story - Episode 2 - GAME OVER

[Kmd4390]

Vote wimpy

[Kmd4390]

Im not here to be nice

[Kmd4390]

Also I agree that [p]27[/p] feels really weird and doesn't make much sense.

Yup my one question was gonna be a why on that post until i saw it was already asked.

[Kmd4390]

Note to self: look up some of wimpys past games.

[Kmd4390]

By the way, here is a summary of the characters.

Chuck Porter is a member of a crime organisation that Brett Wilkins leads.

Victor Garner and Lewis Robson are partners as cops
so are Ashley Williams and Asuka Tagawa
and Jack Turner and Trevor Price
Luke Jameson has no partner.

Courtney Turner and Danny Turner are wife and son of Jack.

Chet Gray is an alchoholic former cop and partner of Victor Garner.

Boston Rob had just moved into town.

Ok my role makes sense knowing this. I should look up the first game too.

[Kmd4390]

Spoiler:

I replace out of every single one of them

Not sure why you even play then but it's not my place to have that conversation with you

[Kmd4390]

Are we doing a full claim day 1?

No

[Kmd4390]

Ugh. Wimpy has no completed scum games. That being said, anything I see here that was worth leaving my vote there is also present in his town games.

Invite

Wimpy I do want to know what you think of the Miller claim?

Vote gobble

[Kmd4390]

Unvote, vote gobble

Dang auto correct.

[Kmd4390]

Ive never been big on outguessing the mod, especially an experienced mod. I also would prefer not to claim my character after already hinting towards it making sense with my role.

[Kmd4390]

I am curious, is it a lock that Chuck Porter and Brett Wilkins are the mafia flavor and everyone else is locktown? If so, then we might be able to use flavor to our advantage.

Scums have safeclaims.
There are 9 pro-town flavours.

So if there's anything to be gained from a mass flavor claim, it's only for scum to gain. Power role speculation.

I suspect we're on something *close to* the same wavelength but since your vote didn't count anyway, perhaps you would be interesting joining me here instead?

UNVOTE: woats
VOTE: Asriel

My gobble vote wasn't for focusing more on setup spec than scumhunting. Although it's interesting to note.

[Kmd4390]

Interesting. But is wimpy scum or just doesn't like confrontation?

[Kmd4390]

The replace puts seem to back that up. Any interest in voting gobble with me?

[Kmd4390]

Not yet. He said he replaced out of every game.

[Kmd4390]

The replace puts seem to back that up. Any interest in voting gobble with me?

That's an auto correct. Was supposed to say replace outs

[Kmd4390]

tbh playing anon alts feels like saying "I don't give that much of a fuck for this game", hence why anon things are detestable

I couldn't disagree with you more. Sometimes I dont like having to deal with other people's expectations for me.

Plus you're implying that the decision to play anonymously is AI when it's decided before roles are received. If you're not trying to imply that then your wording is simply reckless because it kinda feels like you just slipped knowing my alignment.

-eth0s

What part of that sounded like creature was talking about your alignment?

[Kmd4390]

tbh playing anon alts feels like saying "I don't give that much of a fuck for this game", hence why anon things are detestable

I couldn't disagree with you more. Sometimes I dont like having to deal with other people's expectations for me.

Plus you're implying that the decision to play anonymously is AI when it's decided before roles are received. If you're not trying to imply that then your wording is simply reckless because it kinda feels like you just slipped knowing my alignment.

-eth0s

What part of that sounded like creature was talking about your alignment?

Why does he care if I "don't give a fuck about this game" (horribly untrue generalization btw) if I'm not town, aka the alignment is or is pretending to be?

If he's got a problem with my slot that means he should think I'm not town right? In which case what problem should he have with me not giving a fuck? In other words it seems like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.

-eth0s

That's a weird leap in logic. Let's say someone in the queue said /in to troll next game. Don't give a fuck about it. I'd have a problem with that. Doesn't mean I'd think they're scum. Like you said yourself, what happens in the queue happens before role distribution. I don't understand how you can see that distinction and still believe he was calling you scum for it.

Don't like the Creature vote on gobble. At least give some reasoning.

VOTE: Creature

By this logic why didn't you vote me first? I didn't give my reason for voting gobble yet either.

[Kmd4390]

Ill catch up later. Need to sleep now

[Kmd4390]

KMD, why did you attempt to vote me earlier?

You opened with an empty wagoning vote and that caught my eye so it's what I fell back on when I unvoted wimpy. Safron then made that comment about being on the same wavelength as me so I looked at his post and back at your ISO and noticed how you pressured the Miller claim without ever voting there. It had a feel of scum trying to latch onto something more than town trying to get the game rolling or week any answers.

Sorry, I'm not sure why I said creature. Your avatar is fine. I think maybe somehow Kmd4390's avatar made me think of creature or something which cause the mixup. Your name seems like it would pair well with Kmd4390's avatar, but yea that's the one I find a little creepy. Imagine that creature staring at you through your bedroom window..

Um. That's not a creature. That's an actual picture of my face.

I didn’t necessarily see it either but this level of tryharding is scum!Creature, more often than not. His whole weird flex on Wimpy being online pings tf out of me. It hadn’t been remotely long enough for that imo.

Has creatures meta changed? Mathdino told me he tryhards as town and lurks as scum but this was during the last team mafia so some time has passed.

I think Woats is bussing Creature. I am more sure that Woats is scum though.

Why do you think deathtunnel unvoted after creature provided meta?

________________

Creature where was safron opportunistic?

________________

I am scumreading Saffron Ghost for these comments

Can you elaborate on what bothered you about those posts, especially the first one?

Also, if you could investigate someone tonight, who would it be and why?
@Anyone who wants to answer.

Asriel. I have a gut scum read that I know I'd never be able to put substance to. So if asriel is scum, I'd need the guilty result. If asriel is town, I no longer have that distraction. But then again, if I just told scum what I was about to do id probably pull a switch on map wolf or something.

[Kmd4390]

If they were bussing creature they'd have no need to get him off their back. And I'm not sure unvoting would accomplish that in most cases.

I asked about safron because I townread that comment. I feel like scum would be more likely to make something up than admit they can't remember. What gives you the idea the opinions in the third quote are fake?

[Kmd4390]

Maybe I'm wrong but I thought I saw hard reads on creature, deathtunnel, and myself in that post.

I think wimpy is townish. I'm still deciding on deathtunnel but I think a few things have come off as trying to look town. Specifically the comment about Hydra chat and the Unvote of creature.

[Kmd4390]

Id look in asriel/you/map I think. Gobble seems better now.

Preview edit: not sure

[Kmd4390]

Id look in asriel/you/map I think. Gobble seems better now.

Preview edit: not sure

(Because Saffron is scum )

I think the vote not matching up with the reads is another example of Saffron being scum.

Safron should respond to this

[Kmd4390]

KMD I wish I had a Pt with you

The game thread can be our PT

[Kmd4390]

I want Saffron to post :/

I think that's mostly what the game is waiting on right now.

[Kmd4390]

I'm not yet satisfied with Nancy's performance

gobble looks alright

I'm not seeing the Map townreads

Kmd I feel was trying to pocket me

Wimpy like disappeared and for some reason I thought he was in prod range too

Nah. You mentioned suspicion on where I was voting and second guessing where you were voting so I asked you to join me.

TIL that explaining that your partner accidentally posted in the game thread instead of the hydra thread (even when the post made obviously feels less directed at a whole playerlist) is LAMIST

I think you've played more than enough mafia to know that if you are genuinely talking reads in a Hydra pt it means you're town. So either your slot genuinely posted in the wrong thread and are definitely town OR your slot faked it and must be scum as a result. I don't like you pretending not to understand this.

[Kmd4390]

It's kind of bold for kmd to assume that I should know the implications of that whole thing when he doesnt know me at all as far as I'm aware. But I'm not sure that that's AI in the way he handled it.
-e

I thought I'd played with you before. Maybe I'm wrong? But yeah it seems like everyone who has commented on this so far understands it now. And whoever said it was wifom, and s, I is. It's loaded with wifom. Especially when you consider both players in the Hydra claim not to understand it.

[Kmd4390]

Oh cool, pisskop.

[Kmd4390]

I'll try to catch up in the morning. Did a double at my radio station tonight and need to sleep.

[Kmd4390]

Creature, you were asked twice where safron was opportunistic. Did I miss an answer to it?

______________

I don't want to lynch you. That was sloppy writing on my part in that post.

What was that supposed to mean then? Because it sounded like you wanted to lynch him

KMD softed PR

1) Can we not do this?
2) This is my final response to anything along those lines.

I think everything to say on this topic has been said and that everyone should just move on already. For the purpose of improving the health of this game, can we please just drop it and act like it didn't happen?

Yes. I don't care who broke rules or said mean things. I'm not the mod. If someone did something because of their alignment, I'm interested. But I don't see it in any of that mess which is why my opinions are being kept to myself.

Anyways, point being that I didn't know what a miller was until I read my role. Feel free to be skeptical if I ever claim miller again, but i think anyone familiar with me can pretty much consider me almost conf town

Is it bad if i think this is genuine?

__________

Can someone tell me what a woat actually is? Im guessing it's new because I've never heard it before.

_____________

We need a vote count.

[Kmd4390]

Eth0s you're right. It doesn't look like we've played together. You played in a game I missed but I think I may have confused you with someone else. Not sure who, even. Maybe Erg0. I don't know. For some reason I thought you had a lot more experience than you do but I see you have a 2017 join date.

[Kmd4390]

Oh ok I can see that now.

Preview edit: thanks

[Kmd4390]

Yeah i dont see it either. I need more words to understand.

[Kmd4390]

Asriel maybe?

I like you, pisskop, and zenith for town. Wimy and creature to a lesser extent. Everyone else is my PoE pool.

[Kmd4390]

Ok

[Kmd4390]

makes me think my creature/wolf team is actually right

Nah he's probably in the top 3 of the most scummy in my view.

Now im wondering if the rule of three applies if other players don't get listed

[Kmd4390]

What was asriels alignment in the first game? Im guessing town? What was map wolf's alignment in the mine game?

[Kmd4390]

I think we're lynching town here.

Vote Asriel

[Kmd4390]

Took me a while to figure out but I think he means you.

[Kmd4390]

It's Day 1. We don't know any of that for sure. I'm townreading zenith and gobble though so your points are worth considering.

[Kmd4390]

K

[Kmd4390]

I think we're lynching town here.

Vote Asriel

What makes you think Pisskop is town?

I got the opposite impression that most people did on safrons wavelength comment. It made sense to me why he voted where he did and why he thought I voted elsewhere under the same reason. To me it looked like an attempt to solve. And then his post about not remembering his own reasoning I thought as scum he'd have made something up. I just don't see the surefire scum case everyone else sees.

[Kmd4390]

I once saw a game called powerball where everyone was a power role but none of the roles turned out to actually do anything. Like there was a nurse (backup doc) with no doc.

[Kmd4390]

> Alive
Beyond_Birthday replaces Tekkactus, Naive Cop.
Kmd4390, Nurse.

> Dead
BlakAdder, Godfather, Democrat Mafia, lynched Day 1.
darkdude, Retired Cop, Shot Night 1
Mana_Ku, Psychiatrist, Shot Night 1
StrangerCoug Framer, Democrat Mafia, lynched Day 2
afatchic, Naive Doctor, Shot Night 2
caf19 Framer, Red Mafia, lynched Day 3
Pads, Firefighter, Shot Night 3
RossWilliam, Miller, Lynched Day 4.
Tampons, Mason, Shot Night 4.
UnofficialRulerOfEveryone Godfather, Red Mafia, lynched Day 5

[Kmd4390]

Lynching asriel instead is a good reason

[Kmd4390]

Lynching asriel instead is a good reason

You're welcome to try to make that case to shift the wagon if you want. Just under a 2 day max time limit.

Theres always the fact that if town pisskop will be a bigger asset going forward. Otherwise it's hard because:

Lynching asriel instead is a good reason

Lynching asriel instead is a good reason

You're welcome to try to make that case to shift the wagon if you want. Just under a 2 day max time limit.

Astriel not posting makes it tough to read him. Is he up for a prodge yet?

[Kmd4390]

Lynching asriel instead is a good reason

You're welcome to try to make that case to shift the wagon if you want. Just under a 2 day max time limit.

Theres always the fact that if town pisskop will be a bigger asset going forward. Otherwise it's hard because:

Lynching asriel instead is a good reason

Lynching asriel instead is a good reason

You're welcome to try to make that case to shift the wagon if you want. Just under a 2 day max time limit.

Astriel not posting makes it tough to read him. Is he up for a prodge yet?

If Asriel needs to be replaced, the mod would probably grant us an extension.

If that's what happens fine, but I prefer to operate under the assumption that we are dealing with the players who are currently in the game.

[Kmd4390]

I bet that would change if they were really close to being lynched.

[Kmd4390]

I'm really not that convinced but:

[Quote=Kmd"]
Asriel. I have a gut scum read that I know I'd never be able to put substance to.[/quote]

[Kmd4390]

Oops. Had a feeling I'd screw that tag up too.

[Kmd4390]

That's good timing. I was coming here to announce V/LA for work today and tomorrow and going out drinking Saturday

[Kmd4390]

Hmm.

So pisskop was bussed. And whoever killed asriel is probably town because creature looks more like scum's kill.

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: Saffron Ghost

That's L-1

Its possible this is a buddy either wanting their buddy to claim and the wagon to go away or thinking they were already going down. Wimpy also wasn't on this particular wagon but ended up hammering, reluctantly from the sounds of it:

I sort of feel like if piss was legit he’d be putting up more of a fight. I still don’t understand this wagon but based on his play I guess I can see why people find it scummy.

Looks like he’s going to be the lynch

I think my best guess right now is map or wimpy.

[Kmd4390]

He didn't tell you who he targeted?

I don't see that in his role pm the mod posted.

I don't think we should talk about how many shots the vig has, if vig is even the role that killed asriel.

[Kmd4390]

I didn't notice the redacted part. Maybe that was the bodyguard stuff. Although other neighbor is probably more likely.

[Kmd4390]

Guys slow down I'm trying to catch up lol

[Kmd4390]

Kmd, what is your opinion of Woats?

I think I am right about my hypothesis from yesterday.

I'm thinking town now. It's possible they bussed but I think it was map or wimpy. I also have a guess at something that would make them town.

why do you say this?

If I'm not mistaken the remaining player list is the lynch wagon and myself .

Okay actually I think this is a scumslip.

Yes, kmd did provide a sliver of reasoning in the first post that creature was likely "scum's kill", for reasons that I could only assume since none are given. But it's just that, no reasoning given makes it a somewhat weak point but fine on it's own.

Then you see the bold underlined bit from the second post, there is no second thought given to who the "non-scum kill" would even be targeted towards. He just flat out TMIs that it's asriel who is killed by not-scum.

I'm probably not articulating this well but surely others see what I mean? Why not just leave it at "I don't think we should talk about how many shots a potential vig has"?

"if vig is even the role that killed asriel" is a perspective slip in which kmd shows that he knows why creature died, but does not know for sure why asriel died. Pretty clever to bring up a desire to keep quiet about a vig, as it makes him look better, but he totally blew it with the bold underlined bit.

I mean it seems straightforward to me that a vocal player like creature and a lurker like asriel get killed, scum probably killed the vocal player unless they for some reason thought asriel slipped power role or something. And all I meant with that last line is there are other roles that can kill that aren't scum and vig.

Watch it be wolf this entire time. He’s chuck porter who invaded my neighborhood

That's where I'm leaning. I don't think wimpy is scum here from his Day 2 posts.

___________

Claim incoming. Youre all gonna laugh or be pissed lol

[Kmd4390]

By the way, here is a summary of the characters.

Chuck Porter is a member of a crime organisation that Brett Wilkins leads.

Victor Garner and Lewis Robson are partners as cops
so are Ashley Williams and Asuka Tagawa
and Jack Turner and Trevor Price
Luke Jameson has no partner.

Courtney Turner and Danny Turner are wife and son of Jack.

Chet Gray is an alchoholic former cop and partner of Victor Garner.

Boston Rob had just moved into town.

Ok my role makes sense knowing this. I should look up the first game too.

The bolded makes sense as a VT, does It not? As soon as you say "my role", scum start to think you are a power role and the best thing a VT can do for their team is get night killed. Scum kills active players and my real life prevents me from being as active as everyone else. So this was my way of trying to draw the NK.

Are we doing a full claim day 1?

No

One comment isnt enough. I intentionally played to not wanting my role exposed. Which in a way was true. If we massclaimed day 1 and I was outted as VT, I never get NK'd.

ve never been big on outguessing the mod, especially an experienced mod. I also would prefer not to claim my character after already hinting towards it making sense with my role.

Too obviously a VT.

KMD softed PR

1) Can we not do this?
2) This is my final response to anything along those lines.

Neither confirmed now denied. I didn't want to lie and never once did but I also wanted to manipulate scum into thinking I was a power role. I shut down any more discussion on it from myself because anything more would have been overkill and I didn't want it to be obvious what I was doing.

[Kmd4390]

That should say neither confirmed nor denied. My phone auto corrected to now.

[Kmd4390]

I can't think of a single reason scum kills asriel. The only way that's scum's kill is if he really had a bodyguard ability and was successful in using it.

[Kmd4390]

If I was scum I'd claim something that makes people Unvote and not target me at night. PGO would have been a good one. Maybe gunsmith or vanilla cop because they'd be weak enough in this kind of game to make sense. But VT? No. Especially not with people thinking I'm a power role already. It should be painfully obvious what I was trying to do in hindsight .

[Kmd4390]

Eth0s there's no slip. That's just me acknowledging that roles other than a big have the ability to kill. I agree with your town reads on gobble and zenith though so I think we're in good shape to win this without me in a potential LYLO.

Wimpy I think it's best to treat the vig claim as confirmed town unless another scum flips and the game hasn't ended. I don't see that happening.

Vote map wolf

[Kmd4390]

Id like to see someone say with a straight face they thought asriel was killed by scum when they saw those flips.

[Kmd4390]

But asriel claimed to be a bodyguard and had redacted parts in the pm. It wasn't likely but was the closest thing I could come up with to a reason asriel could be scum's shot. But you're really just saying the same thing I have been with that post. It was obvious which kill came from scum and which one didnt.

Preview edit: *shrug*. I'm not good with setup stuff.

[Kmd4390]

Asriel hadn't stood out to me there. And that wasn't a defense. That was a guess at what safron was getting at.

[Kmd4390]

I can argue theory on scum claims all day but VT is the worst thing you can claim as scum who could be lynched. I don't think I've ever done it in 12 years of mafia. It's a belief I've held since I was a newbie.

[Kmd4390]

Map i voted wimpy and gobble day 1

[Kmd4390]

Yeah I remembered asriel as soon as my phone died and I went to bed. Wasn't gonna get back up just to correct myself.

[Kmd4390]

I'll be back to normal posting when I wake up. Just finished my work week.

[Kmd4390]

Like I said, lynch map and we shoot kmd. If the game isn't somehow over, I'm sure you and gobble would probably end up lynching wimpy anyway.

-e

Ok that's what I was wondering but didn't want to say. Since you have another shot this is a town win if everyone trusts that gobble and zenith are town. It doesn't matter who we lynch.

[Kmd4390]

Still map wolf

[Kmd4390]

If you aren't sure about the claim...

Lynch me.

Shoot map.

Map protects deathtunnel.

If map if town, that means deathtunnel is still alive with wimpy gobble and zenith and I don't see how we lose that. If map is scum we win with deathtunnels shot. Even if map survives woth some kind of NK immunity or something he can be lynched tomorrow.

Any holes in that?

[Kmd4390]

Redacted could easily be who was in the neighborhood. Not that it matters much.

[Kmd4390]

I'm already voting map

[Kmd4390]

I fear we might lose if Zenith is town and hammers me.

Wouldn't that mean you think gobble is scum? Lol. We lynch you, i get shot, deathtunnel dies at night. That leaves wimpy gobble and zenith. You said if zenith is town we lose so you expect either wimpy to be scum and not get lynched which you shouldn't be worried about if you just voted zenith and claimed to have solved the game OR you think gobble is scum. I dont see a real thought process leading to that post.

[Kmd4390]

Vote map wolf

[Kmd4390]

I don't see it. That didn't exist when I played regularly...

[Kmd4390]

you can just copy paste this

VOTE: map wolf

or this
VOTE: map wolf

or this

CODE: SELECT ALL
VOTE: map wolf


-e

Did it work?

[Kmd4390]

Is there any benefit in no lynching? We shouldn't discuss reads if so.

The only reason not to is if we have one person who stands above everyone else as obvtown and is never getting lynched and clearly the NK anyway. I'm not 100% sure we have that and am kind of thinking no Lynch to increase our odds of hitting scum and need a smaller number of town players to actually agree.

Preview edit: or we can throw votes around to open LYLO but I don't know when that's ever been a good idea.

[Kmd4390]

Oh wow hadn't noticed that

[Kmd4390]

I think you should Unvote at least until gobble checks in

[Kmd4390]

Well so much for no lynching and not giving scum info for their kill.

Wimpy why does that vote make zenith scum? If you're town why can't zenith simply be town who is wrong?

[Kmd4390]

Creature wanted you to die, and had correctly called out both you and your partner. That's plenty of motive for you to NK creature..

By that logic I’d have killed you too. I’d leave woats alive who was declaring I’m town

This would actually be a good point if not for the fact that you brought it up on your own so early in the day . Now I'm worried its just a WIFOM play and my mind is saying you've thought too much about scum-you's NK process to be town.

I'd forgotten how paranoid LYLO makes me.

[Kmd4390]

Well so much for no lynching and not giving scum info for their kill.

Wimpy why does that vote make zenith scum? If you're town why can't zenith simply be town who is wrong?

He didn’t reconsider reads in mylo. His reasons were debunked and he’s still refusing to consider anyone else. That’s scum who got greedy. Not town trying to solve

I actually hope youre right because if he's town who has decided before the game is over that he's ok with losing as long as its not to you, that is the not playing to win mentality that ive always hated.

[Kmd4390]

If defending myself is wifom play I’m ok with that. I have to defend myself from scum.

True but I don't know your alignment so the possibilities are:
1) you are town who made a good point why youre town
2) you are scum who killed deathtunnel just to set that point up.

I need to consider both and neither stands out as much more likely than the other. I also kind of think killing the one player who is never getting lynched outweighs any gain from keeping them alive anyway. Especially when they're a strong enough player to realize confirmed town only gets brought to LYLO when their reads are wrong so there's a good chance they'd reconsider anr vote you anyway.

[Kmd4390]

Him lying about me isn’t ok either. I did debunk his reasons. Just cause he doesn’t like it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen

He could just disagree. You made a defense. Doesn't mean the points he made were definitely wrong. And even if they were it doesn't make you confirmed town either. Town makes inaccurate points against scum all the time. Although if it is debunked youre absolutely right that town-him should reconsider at the very least.

My head hurts.

[Kmd4390]

It kinda sucks how you both sound too sure of yourselves to be town.

Preview edit: im gonna go read that again

[Kmd4390]

Being unsure, having bad reads, and paranoid doesn’t make me scum though. None of those reasons means I’m scum. It just means I suck which is true cause I can’t seem to finish a game and haven’t played mafia in like 3 years.

I avoided the saffron lynch because I didn’t see reasons for it. I said that many times. Nobody had a good reason for voting. Even after the flip, I still contend creature was the better lynch. Saying I haven’t defended anyone else’s is a lie cause I have opposed a kmd lynch and was vocal about that.

As for why I didn’t go after asriel, if you look in my iso I forgot Asriel was even the game. That’s why. Plus wolf was making posts, he just wasn’t scum hunting in them. Lurking was never the reason for wolf. Lack of effort/scum hunting was and to imply it was lurking is disingenuous.

So two things. I actually agree with the above post. Zenith's wimpy case looks more like pointing out poor play and being wrong about the one flipped scum we've got. And two, most of zenith's case could apply to me as well so I don't understand why he's so sure it's wimpy and not me.

[Kmd4390]

Zenith can you point me to a lie in 1207?

[Kmd4390]

As scum I have no motive to kill creature

Why not? You seemed eager to have him Removed from the game because you didn't like the way he spoke to you or something and he was a pretty vocal player which can be intimidating for scum.

[Kmd4390]

Wimpy, Why are you voting him if you aren't completely sure yet?

[Kmd4390]

And how are the rest of us supposed to know your meta well enough for that to be the common sense you're passing it off as?

Preview edit: thats to wimpy about the creature kill.

Zenith, my interactions with safron/pisskop don't look good either. How'd you pick out wimpy over me with such confidence?

[Kmd4390]

Fyi ill be stepping away shortly. Almost to the mall. Spending the evening with family. I'll be thinking about this and will catch up when I get back.

[Kmd4390]

Does that mean the lack of notice to kill creature point is debunked then? Lol

[Kmd4390]

Motive. Damn auto correct

[Kmd4390]

Zenith have you ever bussed as scum before? What is your opinion on bussing?

[Kmd4390]

Ugh

[Kmd4390]

One thing i just thought of is what scum-wimpys reaction to zenith's vote has to be. Zenith has stated an almost zero chance of voting gobble or myself. So wimpys only win as scum is no Lynch or get zenith lynched.

[Kmd4390]

One thing i just thought of is what scum-wimpys reaction to zenith's vote has to be. Zenith has stated an almost zero chance of voting gobble or myself. So wimpys only win as scum is no Lynch or get zenith lynched.

No lynching and killing zenith over gobble could look bad on him too. Would be riskier than pushing zenith.

[Kmd4390]

One thing i just thought of is what scum-wimpys reaction to zenith's vote has to be. Zenith has stated an almost zero chance of voting gobble or myself. So wimpys only win as scum is no Lynch or get zenith lynched.

No lynching and killing zenith over gobble could look bad on him too. Would be riskier than pushing zenith.

Although I've called zenith town enough throughout the game that he probably could have still been able to get gobble to lynch me in 3p had he chosen that path.

[Kmd4390]

He wouldn't have known Miller was a good fakeclaim at the time he claimed it though. It would be a good educated guess based on the first game but he wouldn't have known for sure. And it really does for into the setup pretty well I think. Not that I'm a setup expert or anything. But it feels right. So I don't think the Miller claim works against him here.

[Kmd4390]

With godfather it’s safe to assume there’s is a cop so why wouldn’t miller be a good scum claim?

Oh yeah. Good point.

[Kmd4390]

Zenith you didn't answer my bussing question. Also why'd you choose to claim Miller right away?

[Kmd4390]

Zenith you didn't answer my bussing question. Also why'd you choose to claim Miller right away?

I'm not sure how I feel about bussing. My first game on site i was mafia and bussed which made my partner pissed and it was a mess ive tried to forget. I haven't been mafia since then.

As for why I claimed miller, i just read my role pm and it seemed like the right thing to do, specially since last game i was way more lynch baity, I thought if i didn't claim then chances are high someone from last game would investigate me if they could and that would result in a mess. I didn't know what a miller was until I read my role pm.

I want to look over that game first and maybe day 1 here again but what I'm getting at is for zenith to be scum he'd have to have bussed safron/pisskop and I'm not sure I get the impression zenith is the kind of player to do that. This answer supports that. Yes, he's done it before but if he walked away feeling like it was a big mistake maybe he'd have cold feet towards trying it again.

[Kmd4390]

I may need to add a full day 1 reread to my to do list.

Preview edit: i don't like to decide too quickly in LYLO. There's a lot to look over and sort out first. My last LYLO (5p), scum secured the mislynch vote before I had a chance to vote and that actually got dragged out a while.

[Kmd4390]

I think it's obvious where im leaning though. I think zenith is town. I just want to see if everything else supports that.

[Kmd4390]

My wife is laughing at me pulling my hair out in middle of the mall over a mafia game.

[Kmd4390]

Gobble I'm not a fan of hammer tests. If we're wrong we are handing the game over to potential scum-you or scum-zenith.

Anyway I was looking over Zenith's ISO to see his push against saffron/pisskop and.... well it's not nearly as much as I thought I'd remembered. He placed the L-1 vote near deadline. So my point that he's probably town because I didn't think he'd bus is kinda...gone.

[Kmd4390]

I originally considered zenith town for not knowing what a miller was when he claimed it but it's entirely possible saffron gave him the claim.

[Kmd4390]

Rereading Day 1:
I think wimpy's comment about regretting the saffron vote might be a bit too... out there. I don't think he makes that post as scum. When you vote your buddy on Day 2, if your reason for regretting it is he's your scum buddy, I don't see why you say that right in the thread. Saffron is also the one who asked him why and I'm not sure I see the scum buddy poking at this if it's really the situation of "oh I shouldn't have voted my scum buddy there".

I feel super out of the loop here and wish I'd read the previous game

Unvote, vote gobble

I suspect we're on something *close to* the same wavelength but since your vote didn't count anyway, perhaps you would be interesting joining me here instead?

UNVOTE: woats
VOTE: Asriel

I find it kind of interesting that Saffron tried to sway me off of gobble and never followed up and asked me about gobble when I didn't switch with him here.

__________________

Noteworthy Creature posts:
-Believed Zenith's miller claim
-Voted Wimpy
-Makes his reads list. Stands firm on Zenith town. Upgrades Wimpy to annoying town. Gobble is his only scum lean. No read on Saffron.
-Called out Wimpy for not posting but says he could see Wimpy being intimidated as town.
-Votes Gobble at my prompt.

__________________

I'm trying to figure out what to make of the saffron/gobble interaction on page 5. Something about it feels forced. Where gobbles asks saffron to try to remember what he was talking about with the wavelength comment and Saffron asks Gobble about Creature. Something about it feels like talking for the sake of talking. Saffron coming away from this conversation with a gut town read on gobble for his avatar is weird too.

__________________

Sorry, I'm not sure why I said creature. Your avatar is fine. I think maybe somehow Kmd4390's avatar made me think of creature or something which cause the mixup. Your name seems like it would pair well with Kmd4390's avatar, but yea that's the one I find a little creepy. Imagine that creature staring at you through your bedroom window..

I still find it funny that for the first time in my 12 year history my avatar is my actual face and I get this reaction to it.

__________________

I do agree with this vote. If I am wrong about you, this was my third choice.

Didn't someone mention the rule of three earlier?

__________________

My biggest thought right now is that we may have been too quick to rule out Gobble scum. If anyone really had motive to kill Creature, it's him. If Gobble is scum, Creature's early reads were pretty much perfect which fits the profile of a N1 kill, especially when there was enough suspicion on him that he wasn't clear of the lynch pool yet. And I think if we no lynch, the night gets interesting because Gobble-scum has to either no kill which makes no sense because any of the rest of us would have killed him OR he has to kill Wimpy or myself because Zenith would be bulletproof in that scenario. So I'm not ruling out no lynching yet. I think there's more information to be gained from having another night whether a kill occurs or not.
EDIT: Creature reversed that gobble scum read but I've been in the position of scum playing well before and I know you remember these things and worry it will pop back up. Any voice speaking against you is one you don't want in the game.

Creature was also back and forth on Wimpy though and Zenith isn't someone I can clear. See my daystart today. I wanted no lynch unless we had one obvtown clear about everyone else. I don't think Gobble fits that. I think it was Nancy who mentioned yesterday that he could just be scum playing well. I'm kind of seeing that.

I'm not really sure Gobble's trajectory on Saffron makes sense either. Light questioning and joking with Saffron somehow leads to an empty vote after Creature votes the and deathtunnel expresses interest in doing so. This after gobble said Creature and deathtunnel were scum together. Why as town would he follow them if he thought they were the scum team?
Edit: Ok, I looked again and it's technically not an empty vote because in the previous post he said "I am scumreading Saffron Ghost for these comments". And that reminded me that that felt off to me the first time I read it. I don't really feel that gobble did a good job of backing this up when he called the posts easy and fake. When I pressed for a more specific answer, it turned into saffron not having hard stances which I disagreed with noting three of saffron's hard reads and it's weird how I had to kind of pull gobble's scum read out of him when he felt like one of the leader's of the wagon. And then confidence that Saffron is scum. I dunno. It doesn't line up in a natural way.

_________________

I'm gonna stop at the Wimpy vs Creature non-game stuff. I don't think there's anything else I can get from that.

[Kmd4390]

Wimpy and Zenith can I ask you both to take a step back and take seriously the possibility that you're wrong? Do an exercise. Pretend we no lynched. Zenith, imagine Wimpy was killed and flipped town. Wimpy, pretend Zenith was killed and flipped town (forget for a moment he claimed bulletproof). Look at the game from that point of view. Do you think Gobble (or myself for sake of completeness) makes sense as scum? If the answer is "no that's crazy", continue your 1 vs 1. If you come up with anything different, we should be talking about it.

[Kmd4390]

I don’t know what else to do. I stayed consistent. I stuck to my reads and provided reasons for them. Can you say the same about zenith? Can you point to any real attempts to scum hunt?

I did and was just wrong.

I'm also not ignoring this by the way. You're absolutely right here. You have been wrong this game just like I have. A closer look at Zenith showed me he was more of a back seat player than I'd realized previously.

Preview edit: That's my point though. If the reason for that comment HAD been that he was your scum buddy, I don't think you'd have made it. So it doesn't make sense as a point against you. What you're saying about it makes more sense than what Zenith is saying.

Preview edit: Yes, I see that. But your posts are still very focused on Zenith. I'm asking you to look at this game ignoring Zenith for a moment and see if anything else makes sense to you.

[Kmd4390]

Sounds good.

[Kmd4390]

Pretty sure I looked and they were all ongoing or town games so I wasn't able to get much from it.

[Kmd4390]

It's not power role hunting when the role being discussed was my own.

And where I didn't give reasons, usually if i do that I'm waiting to see who will ask. If no one asks I tend to forget I was waiting.

Asriel I did say was a gut thing that i didn't expect would convince anyone.

The rest of that is fair and actually reminds me how similar your play has been to my own. That's why I'm hesitant to think you're scum. I can understand and relate to most of your play. Mainly the saffron lynch. I think we got lucky there because I never understood that case but there wasn't a clear better option. Asriel was the best I had and that turned out to be a town slot.

Preview edit: I think I wanted to see what was making you replace out and if there was any correlation by alignment. The only thing I remember noticing though was that you opened similarly in this game to your past games. But with no scum game to match it to the only thing i could take from that is that your opening didn't mean you were scum.

[Kmd4390]

Bussing works best when people don't expect it to be scum's best play. And saffron was already the most likely lynch when gobble voted. Creature had voted there and deathtunnel was about to. It makes sense for gobble as scum to jump on to look better when the lynch happens.

Gobble I'm still willing to no Lynch. I value the information we'd get from the NK even if scum chooses not to kill.

[Kmd4390]

Yes

[Kmd4390]

Zenith has two votes

[Kmd4390]

I didn't vote

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: Vote kmd,. Unvote to prove I know how

[Kmd4390]

There's a weight lifted

[Kmd4390]

Guess that elimates no Lynch. Maybe I should have waited for someone to unvote before I came in

[Kmd4390]

Um no. That would ruin the game

[Kmd4390]

So if gobble is scum this game is unwinnable.

[Kmd4390]

Wimpy are you here?

[Kmd4390]

Why doesn't that fit

[Kmd4390]

Ohhhhhhh wimpy?

[Kmd4390]

Oh yeah. Weekend v/la. That's ok. We can wait til Monday.

[Kmd4390]

Wimpy can you humor me for a second if you're here?

[Kmd4390]

How would you feel about me voting gobble and seeing you post so we're both confirmed town? Id be leaving you in a spot where you could win as scum by voting gobble right after me. By not doing so we confirm half the remaining players as town. I know you say your mind is made up but I'm all for more information.

[Kmd4390]

You’re free to do whatever. I honestly think zenith is the right lynch so I’d prefer you just vote him.

See I think this is our of wimpys scum range.

VOTE: Wimpy

Let's confirm it.

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: UnvoteVOTE:

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: Unvote

[Kmd4390]

VOTE: Vote Gobble I meant

[Kmd4390]

I don't think as scum who was just presented a chance to win you'd try to get me to vote where youre voting instead. It sounded like town who is convinced zenith is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Can you please acknowledge that gobble is at L-1?

[Kmd4390]

So youre aware as scum you could have hammered and won the game thus ending it and not having to care about any backlash?

I'm confident this is the case. I just don't want anyone else to be able to say not all bases have been covered in confirming you as town.

[Kmd4390]

I wasnt comfortable enough in anyone being town when you suggested it.

[Kmd4390]

Can we hammer test me? So someone else vote Wimpy and then I dont hammer and my towniness. Can we also hammer test Zenith

This would have won scum the game.

[Kmd4390]

Ouch.