Micro 956 | 2of4 | Dinosaur Comics™ - GAME OVER!

[Hiraki]

ego

[Hiraki]

MAFIA ARE ABOUT TO BE CANCELED BABY

VOTE: CLARKBAR

[Hiraki]

Better question - why did you take it semi-seriously?

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: Umlaut

[Hiraki]

Better question - why did you take it semi-seriously?

Ignored question.

Because last game you were obvtown, and this game you're not obvtown, and it makes me wonder if you're town at all.

That's probably unfair but I'm thinking it anyway.

Weird question.

I really have no idea why I was so town-read last game. I'll tell you this: I am a little unsure of myself here. Way more so than last game where I figured I'd ask questions and try to suss things out. I don't know how to proceed in a game like this where everyone knows each other and seem to have a more fun/relaxed approach. I do feel I'm out of my depth here a little.

But, if you're asking if I'm town, the answer is yes. Unequivocally. By that token, our last game together I had no good read on you and you were scum. This game isn't too different. Are you going to ask irrelevant questions or are you going to scum-hunt this time?

I definitely don't know everyone in this game. I have a few completed games with Hiraki, one each with you and Alisae, Nexus I know who he is, don't recognize anyone else. I think you are maybe reading more into the demeanor of the players here then there actually is. Every game has a different feel.

I guess I can put you at L−1 if you say pretty-please but I don't see a reason to do so now, so asking irrelevant questions sounds good. What's your favorite vegetable?

Even weirder response. There's like a half-attempt to try and actually formulate a read here and then it goes into a random question. I have no problem with this "method" but I have a problem with the almost "threatening" attitude with it.

Why does the demeanor of the players stop you from proceeding?

Weird question part 17.

I suppose in a way I kinda get town vibes from Umlaut because they're trying to put out reads and stuff (even if I don't understand where the reads are coming from)

What reads?

ok so i'm reading page 2 and why tf are people voting clark bar

I didn't actually look at the VC there. It was random.

for now VOTE: hiraki is it just me or does he seem to be jumping on wagons with no reason

If this were the case, which it is not, what is so wrong with that?

[Hiraki]

Are you and town two separate entities?

[Hiraki]

Good answer.

[Hiraki]

You may have your opinion and I'll have my reads.

[Hiraki]

Wait, was that question for me? I thought it was for Nexus.

Nope, it is for you.

Yeah, it was, but there was basically nothing to go on and I wanted to do something instead of just waiting for someone else to do something. This game is a lurkfest.

The game has been going on for less than 24 hours at that point.

[Hiraki]

Also Cult put Umlaut at L-1 and then Alisae voted Umlaut? so urm 1) shouldn't we stop talking, like isn't that a lynch?

Ali was already voting Umlaut, it's a fake vote. There's no need to stop talking until you do not need to talk.

Can't decide if CM1 really missed that or not. Fakehammers happen every damn game now and I just habitually check the VC when I see them before posting any kind of reaction.

I don't understand the rationale of caring if he missed it or not. If he did, then it's just a rookie move. If he didn't, no one is giving him town points.

CM1 is Umlaut ur buddy?

I disagree with this but I have a better answer. Would like to see things play out a bit more before I speak.

[Hiraki]

I reread the opening of the game, and I get the impression that Nexus is a little over-eager to lynch. His responses to people questioning his early pressure do not give me townie vibes.

Also, Umlaut was ever so slightly scummy with his 'vengeful' RVS vote, but the strength of the wagon that formed on him so quickly seems a bit iffy to me.

So far Nexus seems to be the scummiest person in the game. Athena, Hiraki, zKS and Alisae seem townie.

VOTE: Nexus

Why is 90% of this post not about Nexus? Who is supposed to agree with you here?

Anyways, so now that Umlaut is at C-1, now what? like are those who are voting on him really think he's scummy?

Correct. There are also only 3 days left (if not a hair more) and no other wagons. If you think he's not good, then why not do something rather than complain about it?

Also to the person who said that maybe me and Umlaut are buddies, like surely it'd be very risky for me to be buddying up so hard on day 1?

Not answering for him but risk should not be a giant factor in scumminess.

Unless someone gives me good reason as to why we should vote Umlaut, I personally won't be voting there

But you've done nothing to address what people have said about him either and your vote is on Z3.

You can't just come in here say that something is bad and then leave without doing anything more. That is the problem that Umlaut rightfully (yes, I take it back - this game is stagnating) said. If everyone does nothing, then scum will walk over everyone.

@Mod: Any chance you'd consider cutting down the prod times? I thought about this and someone could technically post twice in one day phase and get away without a prod. Since we're splitting the "normal" day times to 6 days. Can we compromise on a 36 hour prod limit rather than the standard 48?

I don't know if the above will help but it's a little telling when the mod currently has the second highest amount of posts in the game (22 - Ali currently leads with 29) with the whole page-top obsession. I'd think that this game basically has 2-3 pages of content rather than 6. I also think that this game started at a bad time (4th of July) which isn't helping anyone either but it's starting to worry me.

[Hiraki]

Furthermore, doing a quick rundown -

Umlaut - I see a scumflip here
SleeperSoul - No read here.
Nexus - No read here - weird to see that other people drop reads here and then don't say much more. Both on the town and mafia side.
Alisae - Scum lean but barely at that
CreativeMod1 - Only real TR this game atm
ClarkBar - No read
z3KIDNYSTONE - No read, promised content

2 days ago for a game that is only 6 pages long as if that would really change everything and hasn't delivered

CultOfAthena - I actually really enjoy the content coming from this slot. TR but nothing solid for me to grasp on, yet.

Gotta move folks.

[Hiraki]

Why is 90% of this post not about Nexus? Who is supposed to agree with you here?

The first question is a mischaracterization of my post. Nobody is 'supposed' to agree with me, I'm just providing my thoughts on the game and everyone is free to come to their own conclusions.

No - it's not characterizing your post at all. It's trying to figure out what the point of it is. Your thoughts are bleak at best. Furthermore, telling me that I can come up to my own conclusion on it and then also saying that my conclusion is a mischaracterization of the post is contradictory.

My entire point is that you're voting someone yet you have said nothing about them. Does the vote matter? Are you actually trying to get people to join your wagon? My answer to both of these is no but you are welcome to solidify your points whenever you like. If someone quotes that post and says that they'll vote Nexus on it, then perhaps I'm wrong. I do not believe I am wrong in this scenario though and I do not have evidence otherwise.

[Hiraki]

Umlaut - Townlean (based on others not themselves)

Why?

[Hiraki]

looking at their posts now I'm more 50/50

no, in fact you said the opposite in your post

[Hiraki]

Calling CM1 your only real townread this game doesn't exactly seem in line with your directly previous post. What is 134 supposed to be if CM1 is your only real townread?

Hope for improvement.

Why spend time and all those words on him rather than someone you don't have a read on?

Most people who I don't have a read on also haven't said anything of substance for me to read them on.

Those aren't contradictory. You can come to whatever conclusion you like – what that conclusion is and whether or not it makes any sense is another story.

That's not what he was saying though.

This post in general is pretty weird. I don't understand the accusation that Sleeper is voting someone who he hasn't talked about when 132, the post where he made that vote, is basically exclusively about Nexus.

Okay - and here is what he said -

I reread the opening of the game, and I get the impression that Nexus is a little over-eager to lynch. His responses to people questioning his early pressure do not give me townie vibes.

Great - I don't agree with this. It would be nice to know where this happened and how it's scummy. Saying something is scummy and showing it are two different things.

[Hiraki]

Okay, this is something I can work with. I suggest as an alternative to your first 2 stilted questions, that something like "You did not provide enough evidence to back up your read on Nexus" would be a more beneficial form of communication for everyone.

Duly noted.

He just repeats that I'm newbscum with no explanation. And then also concedes that he might be wrong. That to me directly contradicts his seeming confidence, that he displayed in his post directly before this one.

Lack of confidence is a scumtell? Throwing a read out is a scumtell?

[Hiraki]

And before you make the obvious next move here, as you don't seem to enjoy conversation, Nexus isn't dumb. He's clearly pushing on you with no reasoning. If scum were always so obvious, this game would not be a challenge.

[Hiraki]

The scumtell is the seeming contradiction made in two posts that directly follow eachother. At first he seems confident for no reason. Then he seems not so confident for no reason. THAT contradiction, with nothing stated in between, is what gives me a slight scumping. More familiarity with his meta would certainly help solidify my read.

Correct, so the change in confidence is your scumtell. That is the contradiction that you are seeing. You can phrase it any way you like, it is what it is.

Meta is bollocks anyway smileyface

Correct!

Does it not affect your read on me at all, when you initially suspect me for something I say I did mostly to get the game moving because it was stagnating, and then it turns out the game really is stagnating?

Not really.

And before you make the obvious next move here, as you don't seem to enjoy conversation, Nexus isn't dumb. He's clearly pushing on you with no reasoning. If scum were always so obvious, this game would not be a challenge.

I can't understand what you're trying to say here. It looks almost like arguing Nexus is TStbS but I don't really believe you would make an argument like that, so what

are

you trying to say about Nexus?

Nothing actually - I wanted to solidify my read on Sleeper. Get an idea where his thoughts are coming from.

I also did not recognize that acronym.

(as in, that's what Hiraki's argument superficially resembles which is why I'm asking him to clarify)

No - that's not my argument. He's just pushing with no reasoning. Pushing with no reasoning is null. It is the reason behind having no reason of which is important.

[Hiraki]

Really? I enjoyed that post.

[Hiraki]

You don't see the rationale? I'm becoming more and more obsessed with 118. I'm not really keen at looking at old games because I'm dubious about using a player's meta, but I might make an exception in this case. Less to look at CM1's meta and more to ascertain if it's plausible that he would not recognize a double-vote and if he really believed that if that were an actual hammer that town should not talk. Alisae even eludes to the nature of her double-post in 110.

Okay - play this game for a second. Let's say you're right about all of this. Is your reason for voting someone now due to lying about experience in other games? Someone who already admitted that they don't play a lot of games of mafia but play a lot of LSG? Not really something I think I'd want to follow through with. It's a dumbtell that I wouldn't vote for.

I need my hand held a little here. Why would Nexus ask that question of CM1 in the first place, why do you disagree with it, and what needs to play out? Or will I just have to be patient?

No, patience is not necessary here. CM1 seems to mimic a lot of Umlaut's opinions. Umlaut even mentioned this in his above post. I will admit that I'm not certain of this but I would find it more reasonable that CM1 is copying rather than sheeping. The former identifies that CM1 doesn't really know what to do in this case (which is fine) rather than sheeping is knowingly doing that. I can go more into detail about this, if you want. I don't

know

if that makes him scum but I am definitely passing on a D1 lynch on that slot.

his first real comment on the game was 118 going "oh gee Umlaut got lynched" and oh-so-tentatively suggesting that might be scummy of Alisae.

yuck

[Hiraki]

No, patience is not necessary here. CM1 seems to mimic a lot of Umlaut's opinions. Umlaut even mentioned this in his above post. I will admit that I'm not certain of this but I would find it more reasonable that CM1 is copying rather than sheeping. The former identifies that CM1 doesn't really know what to do in this case (which is fine) rather than sheeping is knowingly doing that. I can go more into detail about this, if you want. I don't know if that makes him scum but I am definitely passing on a D1 lynch on that slot.

Huh? Where did I say that CM1 is mimicking my opinions? The only place I even see CM1 offering real opinions is 140, and looking at that the only place you could see him mimicking me is on ClarkBar

maybe

.

You never did. Not sure why you had to say that. I was responding to tehe question there.

Definitely passing on the execution/cancelling (there needs to be an official replacement for the term "Lynch") on a player who, according to you, is mimicking the player you find scummy and have your vote on? Yeah, I need more detail.

Yeah that was a slip up by me. Gonna take time to get used to the new vocab. You can continue to say you need more data but once you get it, you will agree with me. If not, you will just be wrong.

[Hiraki]

Yeah, I'm not seeing any of this. Sorry.

[Hiraki]

That’s a bad old unvote there fella.

I agree more with this than anything up there.

I need to reread and generate some questions (which will undoubtedly thrill Alisae) and those questions will likely come with a vote.

I'm watching this mostly.

At this point there's enough traction on the Umlaut wagon that you can distance yourself from it and make yourself look townie.

I appreciate the thinking here but the amount of assumptions in this post is setting off some alarms.

[Hiraki]

C-1

ugh

does this mean im old now that i scoff at new things?

no

in spirit i'm voting for umlat or sleeperslot.

why don't you do it then

Neither of you have solid reads. Ali I've seen you play like complete shit with the same overconfident attitude, like in your invitational with pine. Your reads were hot fucking garbage that game but you were so sure of your reads that you made that game impossible to play.

Maybe you should be better?

wow, so brave

sooo, you think theyre town tho?

very good, we may disagree on the above but this is very good

It's cool though. Y'all Muppets can't handle me, and therefore must push to get me out, or I'll spend to much time thinking about the game and will solve it with a showable proof unlike Nexus and their p1 d1 shit solve.

wow, super brave, so noble

Damn there are a lot of oldbies in this newbie setup

i think these setups are harder than ones with PRs, tbh. and i think PRs are hard / usually mess them up

please stop comparing e-peen sizes. we all know hiraki is our god player in this game

ill take the slight jab with GRACE thank YOU

[Hiraki]

Oh, well THANK YOU no JAB

i am town this game, im just not smelling what u and nexus are sniffing all of the time

dude if someone else throws these WWE-esque jabs, i'm just going to go full vince mcmahon

[Hiraki]

That's fair. I actually thought replacements were in by that part and I didn't really want to post-edit that post. I think that is C-1 if formerfish's vote is still on there

[Hiraki]

If you really have no idea of what might be happening here do you at least have a modicum of trust in me to let me see this through?

i haven't seen this amount of giant e-cock in awhile WOW

I'm not just trying to flame you Ali, I'm just having bad flashbacks to you being 100% wrong but being unable to get out of your own way.

no - it doesn't matter if you didn't try, you did flame and you were 100% a dick

Hiraki is voting me for some early-game stuff that seems weak (ignoring a question that wasn't obviously meant for me, thinking the game was slow when it actually was slow) and hasn't seemed to reconsider that at all

yeah i have

CultOfAthena hasn't even mentioned me at all, except in passing to talk about other players

Hiraki's 89 is alright. The analysis of Umlaut's one post is probably the most poignant part. Also, I never thought I'd see the day where I'm the one recommending against being snarky and antisocial, but it feels like people are being pretty short with the newbies in the playerlist.

fair that it hasn't been awhile but his last post was in the 150's and he just got prodded

I don't know what's supposed to be yuck about this.

very poor characterization

[Hiraki]

Looking at the CM1 post again maybe "tentative" is the wrong word (he does say "that's kinda scummy of you" which may not be a strong statement but is at least a definite one) but it strikes me as absurd and phony-sounding. The town reaction I'd be looking for from someone who believed the hammer is more along the lines of "Alisae wtf???" than an explanation of why hammering with zero warning halfway into the day is "kinda scummy."

From the newbie? Why does everyone ignore that CM1 is clearly not experienced?

[Hiraki]

Maybe my expectations of newbies are just higher than yours. When I joined MS I hadn't played a game of Mafia of any sort for at least ten years, and that was on a forum with wildly different standards of play, and I picked up things like "quickhammering is massively scummy" pretty much immediately and if I had questions that the wiki could answer I asked the wiki instead of other players. Most other newbs I've seen have managed to jump right in in exactly the same way.

Okay - then play this game. Let's say he's not new but somewhat new. Is his next step to act new or is it to actually be newish? I'd like to think it is the later than the former.

but which one would be less offensive as a ringtone? this is getting reduced to 5% volume at meetings, so hearing it at all is a mild concern.

i don't even use ringtones anymore, it's all vibrations for me

I'm not just trying to flame you Ali, I'm just having bad flashbacks to you being 100% wrong but being unable to get out of your own way.

Its fine, my early game isn't anything amazing and I play worse in large themes compared to micros.

So this is you playing well?

What is the point of this?

Thought about trying and push a last-minute wagon on COA based on my master scumhunting technique, "sort by post count," but I have a feeling she's flaked which, if so, makes the low activity NAI

Even if I thought you were town, this would be a hard veto.

[Hiraki]

i am deathly serious, about killing the animes

what if i told you that mine isn't an anime

[Hiraki]

NieR Automata is in fact a weeb game

yeah but it's not ANIME

last i saw clarkbar's vote on my slot is because..sleepersoul sheeped hiraki? and formerfish entered in a hostile way? that's not a town thought process

i feel this, i really do - especially with other interactions

but at the same time, i feel he is a cocky newbie with the emphasis on newbie. but im glad you brought this up as i want to see who takes this bait, i'm pretty confident in my clarkbar TR

p-edit: you are definitely right that it is a snap townread that doesn't feel like it's earned and it's a common thin for scum to handout townreads for bad reasons

last i saw clarkbar's vote on my slot is because..sleepersoul sheeped hiraki? and formerfish entered in a hostile way? that's not a town thought process

Is it weird that reading things I already knew, but with question marks after them, is actually a fairly effective persuasion tactic?

VOTE: ClarkBar

like that

it was clearly an attempt to pocket you

bad joke

I admit I don't have the same zeal in this game that I might have demonstrated in my last one. It's tough for me to get my hooks into this one. The pace is slow, posting feels irreverent, wagons don't make a bunch of sense to me. The discourse is strange. You're not wrong though, I need to put in more of an effort here.

yeah im feeling good about my reads

had a think to myself and realized nexus fading from the game is probably due to rust and is therefore null but he needs to start having some real content

yuck

pisskop standing his ground and refusing to actually provide content is kinda townish? or are they just always like this

this is how you let an N_M rise

also, creativemod1 needs to get off his alisae vote, i don't agree with the case and it's not going to happen

agreed

also, creativemod1 needs to get off his alisae vote, i don't agree with the case and it's not going to happen

Coaching much?

sweet child, fear not, i will lead you to victory

This isn't your first newbie game so you're aware that scum have daytalk. This can't be something you actually believe is happening.

Why not? I didn't take day-talk into account, but throwing signals in-thread happens, I'm sure.

if u vote clarkbar after reading this post 5 times, you've got to apologize to me at the end of the game when he's town

[Hiraki]

i agree with nexus

Unvote

need to re-re-re-read the last few pages, lot of weird things happening

[Hiraki]

@Mod: I know the deadline is paused but is there a chance we could get an extension due to how many new people are now in the game once COA is replaced? Like a day max?

[Hiraki]

I guess Hiraki liked it too but I really don't get what's so good an answer about 93, this whole exchange looks NAI to me and I can't see anything in it that would affect my read on either slot.

It shows he doesn't care about his slot and cares about finding scum (i.e. the post before that honed in on a very small technicality in language - too lazy to quote it/relook it/sorry if i'm thinking about it wrong) rather than caring about himself. It is a townping for me.

perhaps it's just me but i'm worried that i'm thinking clarkbar is scum due to tone which never ever has very good results and that is the reason why i hesitate to fully SR him because otherwise, it's just "looks" that are bad rather than anything that's actually bad

you're just flinging mud at the people voting you and trying to take down their reasons (b/c u feel u didn't deserve to be caught like this). not indicative of a town mindset here.

yeah, see - this i agree with but i don't know if this is a good enough basis to vote, i am conflicted

UNVOTE:

feels staged

[Hiraki]

Hiraki's feels of being conflicted look super fake here in light of the Clark flip

Originally, I was super lax in handling this (i.e. this is post-edit hiraki here) but I want to be extremely here that this is just a flat out lie. There is no place in my ISO (I checked!) where I call Clarkbar scum in the entire game. I've been very consistent with a TR on him and my post above this one only sympathizes why I believe people voting him are wrong and I even did that earlier in the day here -

This isn't your first newbie game so you're aware that scum have daytalk. This can't be something you actually believe is happening.

Why not? I didn't take day-talk into account, but throwing signals in-thread happens, I'm sure.

if u vote clarkbar after reading this post 5 times, you've got to apologize to me at the end of the game when he's town

The fact that this post is

completely

ignored from the buttchug of "Hiraki looks town but actually he's not! See more below (nothing is below)" is the most annoying part about reading through the slog of Ali posts.

Porkens gets it here but also there is something that I wanted to expand on if the day wasn't over -

The whole exchange between Clark and petapan felt like performance to me. I anticipated the unvote.

Let me be clear, I do not think the Clark part was staged, I have a ton more issues with the Peta unvote. it is ironic that

I

am conflicted yet Peta gets a pass from Alisae because Alisae won't drop this weird read on me.

I agree about Peta, it kinda looks like he knew it would be a town flip and is trying to distance himself from being a Clark voter knowing that we'll be looking into Clark voters today

Ah, you are learning. Good.

he is literally town
imagine me having a cop inno on him

Wow, what a stupid fish.

scum has no reason to randomly hop off there
hello??????

To gain clearly super easy town points? How is it Townie to almost cause a NL hours before the deadline?

and "but mwah towncred" is only a reason if he knows that its going to end up in a lynch, which he has no way of knowing

Yeah, it's

pretty

unreasonable to leave a cancel at C-1 or C-2, hours before the deadline, and not expect people to flop to cancel,

totally

it looks like a town perspective its not actually a town perspective

Hold on, let me find my eyes off the floor

Why are you bending so far back to defend petapan, Alisae?

I am so glad you replaced COA

The point in which Peta unvoted there were 4 votes on Clark with a clear view from the town that Clark was the best lynch and the deadline was very low. The other votes were 2 on Umlaut and 1 on Pisskop and 1 on Peta, very little chance of the vote flipping to one of them instead unless someone did something.

Oh my god, I could kiss this post

if he really thought that Clark was town he should've done something to try and save them. His unvote looks much more like he's trying to save himself from scrutiny.

B-R-I-L-L-I-A-N-T

he literally had no time to save him hello?

That's the entire fucking point Ali. How can you give someone town credit for unvoting (i.e. showing that they don't think they're scum and trying to do something about it) and then saying that scum wouldn't unvote because they had no reason to? You cannot play both sides of this argument here.

you are right that i failed to communicate my feelings effectively, that was a mistake. i feel fucking terrible about it! that said i'm not sure why you believe this was an attempt to garner towncred after driving the wagon hard myself. what is unvoting without saying anything supposed to earn me? you are wrong but it's okay.

i feel fucking terrible about it!

y/i/k/e/s

its a terrible take that shows your lack of understanding of the game

You're being just as bad as formerfish here, FYI.

When someone is about to be cancelled, an unvote can easily just mean "I don't want a hammer right this second" and not "I actually think this person is town," and it's on the unvoter to explain which it is.

I don't agree with this but perhaps D1 me was wrong about your slot.

its a terrible take that shows your lack of understanding of the game

Struggling to see which bit is my lack of understanding? I apologise for scum hunting, next time someone does something suspicious I'll leave it be.

Please, let me be the first to ever say that if anyone dwindles, tries to shut you up, or does anything of that sort (even me because it could be me one day), the

last

thing you do is shut up or go away if you have pings.

Cancel: petapan

[Hiraki]

That's the entire fucking point Ali. How can you give someone town credit for unvoting (i.e. showing that they don't think they're scum and trying to do something about it) and then saying that scum wouldn't unvote because they had no reason to? You cannot play both sides of this argument here.

they have no reason to because scum just stay on the wagon and push it through. Things are already going his way if he's scum so no reason to hop off.

except if someone was going to say that he's townie for unvoting, how do you not see the circular here?

also it looks fake because the feelings of being conflicted feel too overdone.

?????????????????????????????????

[Hiraki]

hey wagon were you on yesterday?

[Hiraki]

u also treated him like shit the whole game so....................

[Hiraki]

they're better than your takes!

lmk if u want me to go on

[Hiraki]

so if peta unvotes, he is solving the puzzle (by not getting people canceled) rather than trying to control the narrative by getting people to think he is town by doing an unvote that is practically useless but looks townie

got it

[Hiraki]

yeah i just don't get that FEELING, it's all the VIBES man

[Hiraki]

you actually said everything but that

[Hiraki]

yeah, this isn't fun when you just badger people like that

[Hiraki]

there was over a day before deadline, but how are you going to simultaneously accuse of unvoting for towncred and nearly causing a no lynch? It can't be both. That's incoherent.

yeah, do you want to reference the vote counts too where there's only one major wagon at that time?

[Hiraki]

what is literally the next post

[Hiraki]

can we not count votes because there's no votecount now?

[Hiraki]

you can't possibly be telling me that was THE ONLY POSSIBLE WAGON when no one treated it that way (not to mention: look where you are in that VC)

yeah i'm fine with a hammer

oops!

[Hiraki]

that is correct, you did not. that's also why we're talking about this

[Hiraki]

that is correct, you did not. that's also why we're talking about this

i don't understand what the hell your problem is, then. are you trying to claim there was too little time left to possibly change targets for the day?

I'm not trying to claim it, you even saw it. You only unvoted, didn't do anything, and then he got canceled. There was already intent to hammer the wagon. If you unvoted and said "nope, this isn't it chief" and went somewhere else that would have been fine. Instead, you just unvoted on a wagon that was clearly getting to an execution and moved a little to the left out of the way.

[Hiraki]

What matter are you referring to CM?

[Hiraki]

I think Ali flips town here but for rather illogical reasons.

[Hiraki]

and made a mistake in not clearly communicating my intentions because i was waiting for responses from other players and did not anticipate a hammer occurring so soon.

yeah i'm fine with a hammer

[Hiraki]

Commenting on the current exchange, I was going to say petapan's unvote is a lot 'safer' for scum if the secondary wagon was town as well, and try to form a read on someone that way. But it turns out I was the secondary wagon so this is useless to me; maybe it's useful to someone else but I don't necessarily expect you to see me say "look I'm town" and believe me. It does at least tell me there's no reason to think petapan's unvote was in any way risky if he was scum.

I have thought about this too.

[Hiraki]

For having his own opinion?

[Hiraki]

Hmm.

[Hiraki]

i had a post here but none of it mattered afterwards

i also 100% do not shoot nexus here, i shoot the PK slot

Unvote, Vote: Nexus

[Hiraki]

i had a larger post but then a lot of that became invalidated here too. the optimal play here for nexus would be to CC but nexus didn't do that so im willing to take this risk still

[Hiraki]

go ahead and @ me

[Hiraki]

Why do you describe this as a risk?

do i know if ali is right here? do i know if someone actually tried to kill nexus? do i know if ali is scum? i would consider these to be risks

My point is this: your post seems to assume nexus will flip town.

no it doesn't, that's your bias. optimal play doesn't mean it has to happen, it means that's the optimal play to make me doubt that nexus flips scum here. also no one mentioned the optimal play so by nexus not doing it doesn't mean that nexus is town, it means nexus did not do the optimal scumplay here

Also, if claiming VT is suboptimal for scum, how does that make you think she’s scum? Is she scum playing suboptimally or is she more likely town?

i have had literally zero nexus town pings

[Hiraki]

are you implying my larger post was going to go into how i was going to unvote nexus? i have literally no idea what you're saying

if nexus CC'd, i would have thought a little bit more about this. since he did not, i think he probably flips scum here

[Hiraki]

like how is that hard to understand??

[Hiraki]

there is literally nothing alignment based in that post. why can he not be scum and push with no reasoning?

[Hiraki]

This is what I was talking about in terms of not getting townie vibe's from his response to questioning his pressure. He just repeats that I'm newbscum with no explanation. And then also concedes that he might be wrong. That to me directly contradicts his seeming confidence, that he displayed in his post directly before this one.

yeah, try something better than control F, please

[Hiraki]

BECAUSE IT WAS RESPONDING TO IT? HELLO?

[Hiraki]

this is why i adore when i don't quote posts because it makes it so fucking simple that you're just trying to put pieces together in a puzzle when they don't fit

"If scum (i.e. what Sleeper thinks of Nexus) were always so obvious (i.e. since Sleeper stated that Nexus is throwing on reads without ever saying anything which is such a phenomenal scum tactic), this game would not be a challenge (i.e. that is null because it is the beginning of the game, Nexus might have a reason behind it [i.e. reactions], or literally anything else"

i didn't need to do that but you've annoyed me by flagrantly misinterpreting my posts

[Hiraki]

i honestly hope you are scum here because i don't know how i'd ever feel looking back at myself in post-game after saying all of this shit

[Hiraki]

big brain, dictator used twice, nice

[Hiraki]

ok solve the age old question
who wanted to kill nexus

unfortunately, this is where i think we're at odds - i still see peta making this kill but hopefully you're right about pk. i still think that if everything goes right, gamesolve is in {peta, pisskop, umlaut}

not sure where you get your CM1 wants from tbh

[Hiraki]

oh wow, i am shot - the above is a really stupid post, please ignore it

[Hiraki]

i just protected you because i thought you were the most valuable townie to keep alive

why would you assume you wouldn't be the one shot

what are you trying to get at here? he can't self-jailkeep?

Why would you out yourself now

Because Alisae was going to try and get me lunched by reporting a jk on me, just like e did to nexus yesterday.

there is a difference between you and nexus and the fact that you don't understand that is mindblowing

Alisae no killed.

Do you think the wifom benefit of no-killing outweighs the obvious mechanical benefit of being in c-lo? Because I don’t.

agreed

VOTE: peta
i think this person shoots porkens

agreed

i mean, there is a marginal scenario here where alisae and porkens are both town and scum, having a rolecop result on porkens, try to shoot him under that assumption. and i can't clear myssef because of that. but i don't think it is the world we are living in.

?

Listen friends, things are a bit tense and don’t want anyone to feel too stressed. I hope everyone can feel good no matter what side they are on. Here, I brought some anime cookies:

agreed

like honestly
cm1/pk or cm1/umlaut

part of my head wants to revert to the game with no claims and vote with my ears, not with my eyes

im not convinced cm1 is scumhunting anymore
they're just reacting to the events that are unfolding around them and they're probably scum in this whole mess tbh

i dont buy this too hard but i could be fooled

umlaut also seems kinda townie but he's been saying that some porken posts were good when they were definitely not good so i'm not sure

im almost certain umlaut flips scum here still rather than anyone else

doc save on you or hiraki doesn't change the solve, and those are the only doc saves that make sense.
i'm not going to entertain me not being the JK because its an absolute. Don't bother responding to this point its not worth ur time.

The only thing I have to ask you is who shoots Nexus?
I went down this rabbit hole and I came out with no one except Hiraki.

You fished doc a couple times but this is the one that made me decide I needed to start distancing from hikari

if this is true, then umlaut is the partner and i feel much better about my life

and the thing about umlaut is, i'm still not really sure i understand it, but i doubt he unvotes me the way he did as scum

disagree

i want to see a vote count, probably not voting ali

[Hiraki]

what are you trying to get at here? he can't self-jailkeep?

AFAIK self-targeting is never allowed

that's my point - not sure what you're trying to get at

that was at hiraki

I feel regret knowing that every time he posts now-a-days that I get scumpings and I've "ignored" them for other people

i think hiraki TMI'd that nexus was flipping town and him thinking jailkeeper could self-jail is an indicator of why you'd be shot instead of alisae. (this is to say nothing of the possibility that mafia simply had a rolecop result on you)

Umlaut doesn’t know whether to shit or go blind this game (no offense umlaut)

why can't scum do this?

But the night 1 nokill.............

yeah, totally

Vote: Umlaut

[Hiraki]

you are literally entertaining the 1% scenario as the most plausible scenario

[Hiraki]

He has fewer posts than the mod

all great arguments start with post counts

apologies for not spamming the thread and using longer posts than almost everyone in this game

he pounced on me for easy reasons d1 (now that I'm thinking of it this is really weird because I know that Hiraki knows and fears my scum game so he shouldn't expect to catch me on such crappy tells)

1) pouncing on you for "easy reasons" does not make them "bad reasons"
2) if they were "easy reasons", then you'd be dead already
3) the parentheses doesn't make much sense and actually points to me being town here and you slipping - what is the scenario where I am scum and I push on you for "weak tells"? paranoia for your

town

game? i'd like to submit this part as evidence for a potential slip but i understand that you have to twist it a little so i'm not gonna push it hard

and then contradicted himself in 179 and 338 as to whether seeing that the reasons were crappy mattered to his read

and his takes on both petapan and Nexus were weird d1

it would be weird if you just brought this up today and voted peta and also agreed that nexus was scummy haha ha

his hard defense of CM1 has been disproportional to how towny CM1 could ever have been said to be and seems to be basically "he's a newb so I expect him to be a total dumbass" which is even lazier than my reads

i think CM1 is a very intelligent player - please don't ever fucking try and make me look like i'm belittling someone's intelligence. i think i've said that in multiple places this game, thanks

and in general I've never looked at anything he's said or done and said "oh, that's towny."

no and it took you until D3 to say that i'm scummy yet half of the ideas you have in this post come from...D1, got it

cm1 ur allowed to mislynch me on the condition that you unconditionally sheep hiraki for the rest of the game

let's not do this game

If you're town then there's nothing that clears Hiraki and thus he could be playing a very smart scum

I don't see why maf would no kill night 1

?????????????????????????????

ali chill

If its umlaut I would lynch peta then you figure out the rest in lylo

hard agree

I feel like you attacking me is to try and make you control me.

there is scum and town motivation for attacks, do not make this a one-way street

Finally, I want to make a point to everyone who is playing because I can see quite a few people in high emotions....

THIS IS A GAME! You're not always gonna win but with some hope you are always gonna have fun. Just because you have different reads to someone else doesn't mean that they are right/wrong and blowing up about someone having different reads to you is pointless and even worse if it turns out that you are wrong.

Please don't ruin the game by imploding because other players have different reads to you. Keep in mind that they might be right whilst you are wrong, or there's a chance that they themselves are scum and their reads are fake.

This is all I'm saying about the game for now, gonna have some family time and then come back to this later tonight

this is correct

Where is Hiraki T_T

i don't understand your insistence on him being town his posts suck ass

git gud

I really don't see why Nexus is any more implausible a nightkill than Hiraki. And the other day didn't someone explicitly say "no one would shoot Nexus, except maybe Hiraki"

(oh, but then Hiraki said he

wouldn't

have shot Nexus so I guess that's settled)

are you mad that your theory doesn't make a lot of sense here?

[Hiraki]

oh there was another page, hold on

[Hiraki]

I really don't see why Nexus is any more implausible a nightkill than Hiraki. And the other day didn't someone explicitly say "no one would shoot Nexus, except maybe Hiraki"

(oh, but then Hiraki said he

wouldn't

have shot Nexus so I guess that's settled)

i more or less agree, people make kills for all kinds of stupid reasons (except me, because i'm a basic bitch)

there is literally zero % reason for me to shoot nexus, it is zero to the power of infinity man. look at any scum game (my last game of scum) and it should be pretty obvious that i am calculated as scum as much as i try to go very laissie faire. nexus is telling me that i'm 100% town, my scum motivation to kill nexus is now to say "we'll nexus thought i was town?" if i get wagoned on in D2? wouldn't it be much better to have a body that might oppose me be dead?

but yes, continue to push a theory with a load of WIFOM behind it, i hope it convinces someone to push me down a peg, i guess?

HELLOOOOO???????? Not everything is about you, this post wasn't about you it was actually mainly about Peta

really?

hiraki doing the snide dismissive mockery of arguments against him is the exact shit i did as scum when someone was making valid points against me lol

yes yes, 2012, year of the scum god - i definitely do not do this in every game either, blah blah blah

The point is you as town don't expect me as scum to be lynchbait, so the things you're pushing me on are not actually things you really expect to find in my scum game.

that is not what i fear, i never fear that i can't win or get what i want to happen, i fear that i can do that and be wrong. i do not have that fear here

his hard defense of CM1 has been disproportional to how towny CM1 could ever have been said to be and seems to be basically "he's a newb so I expect him to be a total dumbass" which is even lazier than my reads

i think CM1 is a very intelligent player - please don't ever fucking try and make me look like i'm belittling someone's intelligence. i think i've said that in multiple places this game, thanks

Explain again why CM1 is town?

again implies you already know the answer but sure

CM1 has been actively scumhunting even if the methods have been wrong. When faced with a problem with his reads, he does not ignore it - he takes his reads into account and changes them (see literally every exchange that CM1 and I have had regarding the logic in his reads). Scum would rather not change from the base plan - especially new scum.

[Hiraki]

can you give me a reason to shoot nexus? still waiting

[Hiraki]

can you give me a reason to shoot nexus? still waiting

you know this is a meaningless argument and wholly irrelevant to how the game should be evaluated

hiraki doing the snide dismissive mockery of arguments against him is the exact shit i did as scum when someone was making valid points against me lol

[Hiraki]

ah, you wanted to answer for him now too?

[Hiraki]

pfffffffttttttt hahahahahahahhahahhaha

[Hiraki]

I really don't see why Nexus is any more implausible a nightkill than Hiraki. And the other day didn't someone explicitly say "no one would shoot Nexus, except maybe Hiraki"

(oh, but then Hiraki said he

wouldn't

have shot Nexus so I guess that's settled)

i more or less agree, people make kills for all kinds of stupid reasons (except me, because i'm a basic bitch)

so this is not important to the gamestate

got it, okay okay - dismissive of your own postings, got it

[Hiraki]

harping on

your

argument? i don't need to rehash D2 arguments, do you want to?

[Hiraki]

okay - do you wanna try casing me better than the guy who wrote four sentences thinking that it would be a trump card when half of them didn't make sense?

[Hiraki]

hopefully someone other than umlaut, sure

[Hiraki]

this is someone who is very, very comfortable with the current gamestate.

i will remember this, being confident is now a scumtell, okay okay

his townread is tunneling the shit out of the jailkeeper claim which he apparently believes to be legitimate, driving them to the point of selfvoting, and he has said not a fucking word to CM1 about this.

i don't need to say anything to anyone until things get bad but okay, glad to know that the "townie" move is to start harassing everyone to agree with you???

he's just keeping him at arm's reach, just diminishing him with "methods have been wrong" but never actually talking to or persuading him at all. surely, you would want to try to de-escalate this?

did i de-escalate it with porkens yesterday either?

but he just seems like he's okay letting him go off and if the tunnel kills the JK claim, so be it.

again - where is the scumtell here? i'm confident in my reads and i'm confident that i will prevail so i now need to tell the person who is on a one-vote wagon that has no traction at the moment to switch his methods? there's 2.5 days left, we're getting close to a rush point but we're not there yet

and woah, he did unvote?! wooooaaaaaaaaaahhhhhh, who could have seen that one coming?! is using my crystal ball considered cheating?!?

[Hiraki]

his townread is tunneling the shit out of the jailkeeper claim which he apparently believes to be legitimate, driving them to the point of selfvoting, and he has said not a fucking word to CM1 about this.

i don't need to say anything to anyone until things get bad but okay, glad to know that the "townie" move is to start harassing everyone to agree with you???

like lmfao how do you take what i said and get "harassing everyone" everyone out of that, this is the least charitable reading possible. just flagrant bullshit. i am asking why you would not attempt to persuade your townread to rethink things rather than allowing a continued tunnel on a claimed PR

this is the least charitable reading possible.

HELLOOOOO???????? Not everything is about you, this post wasn't about you it was actually mainly about Peta

oops

[Hiraki]

nor is "waaaaahhhhhhh you read my question wrong and i don't understand your methods because they're not mine" but hey, who's counting

[Hiraki]

do you think my post count will go up for umlaut to start thinking im town if i keep posting like this too? i just got over the mod's post count but don't tell him

[Hiraki]

no seriously what the fuck - i say you're mischaracterizing my post using language that is not reflective of what i am saying, and your response is...to quote an unrelated CM1 post?

yikes, is it going to take you three times that i was trying to figure out what your definition of being townie was by using your actions and trying to put them in a place where i would copy them? maybe 4?

get better at distancing mr. 2012

[Hiraki]

jesus it's been a page and you still can't figure out why i'm not voting you?

[Hiraki]

i'm voting you because i know ali would prefer an umlaut flip before you. it is much easier to make a case to everyone else on umlaut into peta rather than peta into umlaut although you are pushing the edge of that lately

that being said, i don't really care where we go from here, i already have my lynchpool, whoever has more votes gets my vote. is that what you think i'm scared of admitting? that i'm pretty confident in solving the game? i used the c word again - better get after it!

[Hiraki]

i am advocating for my own cancellation lmao, you should be perfectly happy with that, i flip red, you get umlaut the next day, ez pz

it will be, a corner is still a corner

Hiraki, can I ask why you have a town-read on Ali?

this is town Ali from the beginning - untrustworthy of everyone until things happened. keep in mind that the only reason to derail the peta wagon is to stop peta from being lynched - ali is now hesitant to get peta lynch but that would happen tomorrow. if i need to rethink anything, it's after an umlaut & peta flip and one of the two flip town. i do not believe that this is a very common or logical scenario

ali also clearly showed her way of thinking through D1 and D2 which is why ali thought i was scum because ali thought i was trying to get someone who softed a PR role lynched. notice that after that, ali is pretty okay with me rather than suspicious of me because we have finally hit the same page

a) Whilst Ali's approach to me has been rather aggressively trying to get me to change reads, I feel like you're doing a much nicer side of trying to control me. Idk kinda like you're over-praising me, although I haven't actively seen you try to use this to your advantage so it'd be kinda like a long game and to get me to trust you

and at the same time, i have also told you where you have gone wrong. i admire your ability at such an "early" phase to think critically about the situation. before with ali was at least you thinking about the situation, i would rather you stumble to the answer than for me to give it to you outright. i am 100% certain that ali does not get lynched today

b) Peta made a really good point of: If you town-read Ali, why do you egg me on so much? Why not try to help me see other views?

above - if i need you to see something, i will make sure you see it. much like how my post count is going up

Also I've just had a realisation...It's impossible for Hiraki and Ali to be a scum team together (assuming that scum didn't No-kill N1)
IF Hiraki is scum then Hiraki wasn't saved on Night 1 and thus Ali must be JK
IF Ali is scum then Hiraki was saved on Night 1 and thus Hiraki must be town

i am completely thrown off by this - can you explain this? i wish not to say anything more until then

I haven’t read a single one that defends his play

well, i have

[Hiraki]

vote: petapan

[Hiraki]

Unvote, Vote: Umlaut

[Hiraki]

(3 posts up! i'm getting townier!)

[Hiraki]

so your big plan is to prove everyone wrong about your own slot and then hope, after you have no ability to speak anymore, that they will hold people accountable for finding your scummy actions to be scummy? ALSO then those same people that just canceled you will also not lynch your town reads because you made no compelling arguments for why they should be canceled but you were town after all? sounds foolproof to me, good thing you don't need majorities to lynch or anything hahaha ha

[Hiraki]

i dont really care as long as pk/peta/umlaut are dead, the game is over to me

[Hiraki]

so your big plan is to prove everyone wrong about your own slot and then hope, after you have no ability to speak anymore, that they will hold people accountable for finding your scummy actions to be scummy? ALSO then those same people that just canceled you will also not lynch your town reads because you made no compelling arguments for why they should be canceled but you were town after all? sounds foolproof to me, good thing you don't need majorities to lynch or anything hahaha ha

your derision makes you obvious scum. if you're confident, vote me, don't ridicule me.

im not ridiculing you, i'm ridiculing your argument because it clearly has flaws. if you can't see that, then there's no use in further discussions

you've called me "snarky" for this entire time, have you ever once entertained the idea that i'm this way, regardless of alignment (take a peek since you can't take my word here, apparently), because it exposes things faster?

P.S. i have more posts than umlaut now!

[Hiraki]

why attack it in that way if you think i'm scum, though?

i like having fun

[Hiraki]

Hikari is also not acting like town in my opinion at all, and I’m coming around on that.

we have to play the 1% game again?

[Hiraki]

yeah I guess that's a possibility again but that's like 5% but sure

the change in tone is a last push of effort from me from a game that is practically solved and i now have to carry it to the end

[Hiraki]

I just don’t see how you can be so confident.

I'm always a little too confident. Never a terrible thing to trust in yaself!

Do you agree that hanging alisae would confirm you town?

Disagree, CM1 has it right on the money.

So let’s say we cancel umlaut here. Does Ali block me or do I protect Ali and she blocks elsewhere?

I wrote a lot here but deleted it. Let's just say that tomorrow

can

change things but I really do not expect it to do so. I'm not sure if it's smart talking about it other than you should be on Ali. Ali does Ali.

[Hiraki]

Ali, is there any potential for Porkens scum?

I don't see why he's alive other than for the sole purpose of me to question myself on why he's alive.

I also think NK is much more possible here than yesterday. (D1 was still NOT a NK).

[Hiraki]

Do you think I was shot or that I stopped pk from killing?

I'd like to hope that you stopped PK from killing. However, there are two scumboys out here. I'd like to assume that they were smart enough to know that you were going to target PK since you were pretty clear on that yesterday. So I don't really see the scenario where PK submits the kill here. I've been going through the scenarios and I'm very fearful that PK flips town (even my confidence is a little down after yesterday) and everything is staged by scum. There's a few reasons why I don't believe this (mainly because the number of people who are currently alive and would want me alive is small) but I am also still alive which doesn't help me either.

I spent the last 3 hours writing that case and gathering the quotes for it.

There's no rush. I also thought about it and it becomes much easier to guarantee a win with Porkens alive rather than with him dead today. It's a debatable move on the scumteam's part but I think they're in a gambling phase. Not sure overall though.

Why would I kill Hiraki Night 1? Hiraki was the player who town-readed me the most on Day 1, surely something like an Umlaut kill would make more sense, especially as I wasn't on the Umlaut wagon and thus I could make a push towards players on that wagon
Likewise, why would I kill Nexus Night 1? Nexus would've been an easy cancel

Yeah, this is pretty fair. I also did read your case Ali but it's just not sticking with me too hard. I could just be wrong here. PK's silence is not helpful.

[Hiraki]

I'm not scum and I'd rather not let scum hammer Ali.

Vote: Porkens

[Hiraki]

I'm starting to suspect it.

[Hiraki]

I have not been pocketed this game. There are many times that I've tried to see Aliscum but I just don't. Pocketed assumes I haven't thought about that.

[Hiraki]

Who’s my partner in your world hikari?

I would love to say PK but the longer I stay alive, the longer it could actually be CM1 and that's where I've been pocketed, indirectly.

I don't like the case in 2015 but I don't think it's scummy either. Just don't agree with it.

but i think the turn against me is revealing

? yesterday?

i was just having a bit of fun, you towntold yesterday lol

CM1 you are definitely repeating arguments.

I’d really like to take it slow. I feel like this is solvable if we take the time to think about it like you guys are already doing. I know the feeling is like “I’m over this game let’s just vote and get it over with” and I feel that way too but this is possible, I can feel it.

So, everyone ready to vote?

Regardless, well played everyone. I really got into this game and it was enjoyable.

Something is off here.

You've got to at least admit that the points I'm making about your game are valid

no, none of what you have said is remotely valid, you arguments are some of the worst i have ever seen.

Ouch, despite the fact that Hiraki and Porkens were making the same points on Day 2, oh but because the noob made them too then they're the worst arguments you've ever seen, ah okay, thanks

So why do you need to make them again? That's his point. He's already answered these questions and he doesn't want to answer them for a potentially third time once you start to get into circles. It's not even a town vs scum thing here - just a contrivance of being 'annoying' by asking the same thing over and over again and hoping to get a different answer because one word might be different but the question is clearly the same.

[Hiraki]

my only issue is that i feel like the end of day yesterday strongly anti-aligns cm1 with pisskop and porkens so i don't know what to do there, at all, but i'm sort of about to throw in the towel because i'm sick of him

I'm not 100% sure there. CM1 has been having weird takes that don't really make sense in the scheme of things. I'd like to think his towniness earlier will make everything "okay" but I'm not 100% sure, especially in this game.

[Hiraki]

holy shit N_M

[Hiraki]

i need the kain tepes power please

[Hiraki]

yeah i was on your side until yesterday, i know you won't read it tho

[Hiraki]

he's been having a lot of emotions for a long period

not that i blame him

this game has been draining

pre-edit: i am in agreement ali, i still don't get how the doctor is alive either. might be bait but i'm willing to eat on these odds

[Hiraki]

N_M

[Hiraki]

he's been having a lot of emotions for a long period

not that i blame him

this game has been draining

pre-edit: i am in agreement ali, i still don't get how the doctor is alive either. might be bait but i'm willing to eat on these odds

Doctors don’t give clears in this game state and scum can’t afford anymore clears or pseudo-clears, plus wifom, this is a very particular and delicate gamestate

What do you mean here?

[Hiraki]

Hiraki what are your reads?

I'm pretty sure gamesolve is in Porkens/PK/Peta. Peta is there moreso as a third option just so it looks more complete and I don't trust myself this game as much as I did before.

CM1's arguments are not very convincing. Just a general note.

your avatar is rly scummy btw

Wow you just can't stop with the personal attacks can you?

do you really think he was attacking your avatar?

If you're saying that me asking about my night kills is an irrelevant question then I really don't see how it's irrelevant

Like hasn't that been the basis of a lot of arguments? Saying certain people must be town or scum because they would/wouldn't make certain kills

he's saying it's hypothetical and it doesn't really matter and you will never get to agree on a certain argument and even if you do, there is still a high possibility it is not correct

[Hiraki]

Hiraki what are your reads?

I'm pretty sure gamesolve is in Porkens/PK/Peta. Peta is there moreso as a third option just so it looks more complete and I don't trust myself this game as much as I did before.

CM1's arguments are not very convincing. Just a general note.

your avatar is rly scummy btw

Wow you just can't stop with the personal attacks can you?

do you really think he was attacking your avatar?

If you're saying that me asking about my night kills is an irrelevant question then I really don't see how it's irrelevant

Like hasn't that been the basis of a lot of arguments? Saying certain people must be town or scum because they would/wouldn't make certain kills

he's saying it's hypothetical and it doesn't really matter and you will never get to agree on a certain argument and even if you do, there is still a high possibility it is not correct

Hikari, this scumread you have on me is a problem. Can you please explain it and give me the chance to reapond?

no response necessary

Im done trying to puzzle it out for tonight.think we just lose this one.

conga line on the give up train

[Hiraki]

@Alisae, Peta, CM1

Why do you townread Hikari? I’m not asking you to scumread him, I want to understand your reasons to help me sort him.

he mechanically can't be scum with alisae and no other pairing makes sense? it's not even terribly based on dayplay (where i've just accepted he's inscrutable), just that he needs a a partner and there is none there for him.

i appreciate this

i always try hard to keep on the mask

(or facepaint if we're still clowning around)

[Hiraki]

I was mostly expecting Hikari to get killed to put heat on me.

this is fake

Wait, wtf!
Ali, don't play in a game with me again, if as a town you actually think it's acceptable to say some of the things you've said this game to me then no, I don't want to see you again.

Fuck, I'm so lost, I was so sure of Ali and its completely thrown off my whole game, I'm going to back to sleep, don't wanna live in a reality where Ali is town.

THIS
looks
fake.

just sayin.

this is forced

Wait, wtf!
Ali, don't play in a game with me again, if as a town you actually think it's acceptable to say some of the things you've said this game to me then no, I don't want to see you again.

Fuck, I'm so lost, I was so sure of Ali and its completely thrown off my whole game, I'm going to back to sleep, don't wanna live in a reality where Ali is town.

THIS
looks
fake.

just sayin.

i'm banking on it

VOTE: creativemod1

if you're town, don't do this ya ding

Heck yesterday I could've easily joined in the Porkens vote, killed off porkens and then made a night kill and win the game.

explain this further, for the jury so that everyone can hear it

This game is a soap opera

agreed, i'm going to make sure it's a town win though

2290 is correct and is why I try to avoid toxic players. There's a difference between what I do and outright calling someone shit and if you don't see that very fine line, I'm not sure what to say.

the next person who says "why would i kill ali?!?!?" as if it is the saving grace needs to relook at ali's day 3. ali was asking for death

im not 100% sure again who is last scum between N_M and peta but porkens is def scum here

I start by talking about you as if you are 100% town. I defend you against the suspicion you get from peta and Ali. I take heat for that but I do not back down. This continues all the way to the JK claim. Then ali and others start speculating about a doc save and who it would be on and your name comes up in that. The claimed JK, who supposedly thought they had jailed, was preemptively predicting and dismissing a doc claim that was the actual situation.

1) calling me town and sniffing my butthole does not make me think you are town, if anything it makes me look away for a moment when im dealing with what i want to deal with in that very moment
2) i don't need you to defend me? peta didn't really suspect me as much as he wasn't sure what i was saying? ali had a reason to suspect me, which was 100% valid based on e's knowledge, which is why i TR ali hard. i was willing to take an L if it was a very sophisticated ali move but due to her tunneling, i knew it wasn't her. day 3 is when i was writing more about this but decided not to (i think i reference that i deleted it - i also don't need to go into it again)

with that in mind, i went into today with CM1, myself, and Ali as the three town amigos and you three are the three scumboys

i then needed to tier -

ali is 100% on the money about peta, peta is probably not scum here even though the D2 wagon feels and smells like a scum wagon. Umlaut's wagon? Also had that smell. This game doesn't really work like that though, apparently. So I'm going against my head there because everyone wanted peta dead but peta is not dead (which should indicate scum more than town) but literally everyone was okay with a dead peta at one point. it's something that i'm not 100% sure is correct but i am willing to gamble, hopefully for the entire pie this time. NB that this is true with PK but he has had literally no votes which screams scum to me more than anything.

this leaves N_M and porkens. i'd rather a dead porkens yesterday than a dead N_M since we have to discuss more. but i can go either way, i'm gamesolved again.

[Hiraki]

its okay buddy, i think you are scum

you didn't bring the kain tepes vigor like i asked

[Hiraki]

Firstly, what's this mean?

it is an old joke - it has nothing to do with this game

It's interesting how quickly Porkens jumped off of the Peta wagon after Ali's claim, especially given how much suspicion he was throwing towards Ali before their claim.

correct - you're doing it CM1. it's something i didn't take into large account at the time but if Porkens

really

believes his bullshit from the other page about how he wanted to distance, then why would he do this? i started to get pings from this yesterday but didn't have the motivation to go into it, i can do that today if others need motivation there.

p.s. hiraki: this is a 0% chance i shoot alisae if i am scum with n_m or porkens. i take the cheap win every time and do not feel bad about it.

this has nothing to do with your alignment but go on?

Hikari, your reads are shit.

hue hue hue

anyway, one more time for the road: Hiraki, if I were mafia with porkens, I'd have nightkilled you

dude did you read my fucking post?

@N_M do you want to do the honors for a self-hammer? just curious, i know you love that sort of thing

[Hiraki]

Piss? I think piss is just hanging back hoping town eats itself. I just can find piss’ partner as everyone is fine killing him

I guess the only real problem I have is that how can he be so sure pisskop is town? I'm not sure at all. by the way what is a "failed" mischance anyway?

Pisskop townread seems to be coming from how people are reading pisskop and not based on what pisscop is actually doing.

Pisskop sucks because it’s unreadable. Im leaning town but I’ve lurked my way to scum wins just like that as well.

no, im good here my guy, you win if you're scum

[Hiraki]

ive been prodded

bonus

[Hiraki]

It's gotta be bad when your number 1 scum read and your number 3 scum read are trying to get you to do the same thing

?

[Hiraki]

actually i see what you mean, late night here.

[Hiraki]

N_M who said that second quote on your sig?

[Hiraki]

this is also why i'd rather go to bed

CM1 and I are practically confirmed townies, not that it helped much. even though he pinged me last page, i dont see why he doesn't take this opportunity as scum (unless he is truly cheeky), therefore giving me a little confidence boost

on the flip side, that would also confirm porkens scum by virtue of assuming CM1 is town, therefore proving me right, which is something I do like

[Hiraki]

and if porkens is scum, then that means that the other scum would technically be on the N_M wagon, if everything i've said so far makes sense and there is no one here playing to their least optimal abilities - which would also make me half wrong

[Hiraki]

which i don't like but it would eventually make me right which would be pretty okay

[Hiraki]

NM and CM cannot be scum unless they're trolling lol

[Hiraki]

im gonna be so mad at myself if i see N_M flip scum and it's just because he decided to do this N_M shit where he's playing to the least optimal ability just because he wins regardless

[Hiraki]

lmao you guys played yourself, i double checked the votes

[Hiraki]

you have CM1, who if he is scum, can now hammer N_M - this clears myself and CM1.

CM1 is also CLEAR so he is currently voting Porkens. Porkens could be quickhammered by scum at this point, which is sort of why I wanted to sleep on this but that would produce an L so let's not do that.

This means that Porkens MUST be scum in every situation unless someone is playing less optimally in their roles (which could be something of time but we've all been here for the last 20 or so minutes, there's definitely enough time to formulate a quickhammer and mafia has daytalk)

Unfortunately, this doesn't prove N_M but it would be very weird that this situation leads to N_M scum - unlike what I said before and like CM1 said that would be a weird outcome. It is possible but it's not very probable. Either way, Porkens is confirmed my guy.

[Hiraki]

yeah, i guess that is true

[Hiraki]

We could've won yesterday, there was a long period in which there was 2 votes on Porkens and neither of them were me or NM

It'd be simple, cancel Porkens and then kill Ali

???????????????????????

[Hiraki]

Vote: N_M

hopefully good night

umlaut wasn't townie this game, don't try that lol

[Hiraki]

is that you telling me that i was right

[Hiraki]

peta literally cannot be scum here lol

[Hiraki]

Piss? I think piss is just hanging back hoping town eats itself. I just can find piss’ partner as everyone is fine killing him

I guess the only real problem I have is that how can he be so sure pisskop is town? I'm not sure at all. by the way what is a "failed" mischance anyway?

Pisskop townread seems to be coming from how people are reading pisskop and not based on what pisscop is actually doing.

Pisskop sucks because it’s unreadable. Im leaning town but I’ve lurked my way to scum wins just like that as well.

no, im good here my guy, you win if you're scum

im still pretty big on this peta

even though CM1 legitimately pinged me yesterday, im starting to believe that his playstyle and not him being scummy

[Hiraki]

so is that just admission or are you just not going to answer the above that makes you look really bad

[Hiraki]

If it is as you say, wouldn't it be more in scum's favor to not kill anyone so then you look bad if it's not you?

[Hiraki]

why does peta vote N_M if he's bluffing?

[Hiraki]

the worst part is that i was ready to admit that i could've been wrong about CM1 - i am far from doing that now

[Hiraki]

i also do not understand why you keep assuming that scum nk'd here instead of your doc powers working

[Hiraki]

curious, that's the wrong answer and i'm pretty sure that's because you're still not doc. you've thought of every scenario except for the one where your role could have actual meaning here

[Hiraki]

I am slightly worried that I am being stupid here because Porkens is going insane.

[Hiraki]

I think I have one last question. Porkens - you made listings of people yesterday that were pretty solid. Peta is cleared by virtue of you being scum in those listings. Why did you originally think it could be him today? Just because he geared up to vote you, in your opinion?

[Hiraki]

im gonna sleep on this but im pretty sure this is game over porkens

you still haven't addressed PK even though you've had the opportunity to do it multiple times

[Hiraki]

Is being busy a towntell?

[Hiraki]

It looks like Porkens is just quoting my quotes. I don't think that was intentional.

[Hiraki]

I am slightly worried that I am being stupid here because Porkens is going insane.

he's smart enough to know a NL doesn't clear him as doctor in any way so him arguing for that is fairly bad. i think he saw i thought him being paranoid and flaily is town-indicative for him and played that up. we can take our time if you want, reread things, but i do think occam's razor on the night actions makes it pretty clear here.

Hold on hold on, do you not understand how I could mechanically price that I’m doctor? Please be straight with me on this.

i don't think you know what it all means

[Hiraki]

All of those posts were before he replaced out CM1 but misrepresent more.

this is a flatout misrep for what you actually did

His posts weren’t prticularily scuy.

this isn't what you've said and quite honestly, if you're going to call him a lurker, then his posts are town or scum, they're just filler. the fact that you're now trying to call PK scummy when the entire game was just using him as a last resort because his slot was full of lurkers is just weird and not helping your case

Peta wanted to vote for you.

peta also wanted to vote ali but okay

[Hiraki]

@Mod: Can you confirm that Porkens' plan would work? If we decide to no cancel today and scum did no kill yesterday, then would scum be forced to kill tomorrow night? What would happen if they still decided not to?

If this is the case, I'm willing to just do it in order to alleviate doubt under the condition that I am the protection and no one else.

[Hiraki]

Yeah, I was being a little greedy with my question

I don't think this ends with anything other than a dead Porkens but part of me wants to just go down the road and see what happens

[Hiraki]

well, i'd have to wait until saturday after that V/LA anyway

[Hiraki]

yeah, you know what, no ragrets

Vote: Porkens

[Hiraki]

All of my noob town-tells were 100% fake and planned

sad