Micro 1011 | mafiascum rpg | gg

[Dunnstral]

We should skip the tracker and level up, it's actually pretty hard (impossible?) to get everything, haven't done the math. Tracker is 4 levels (3 to finish the dungeon, 1 to actually use the tracker) that we don't have to use for watcher/cop/night 4 power which are much more influental. Tracker can find scum but it's not as good as the other things.

[Dunnstral]

Hello Morning Tweet

[Dunnstral]

Why did you vote for infinity Tweetie?

[Dunnstral]

Why did you vote for infinity Tweetie?

[Dunnstral]

If we go for tracker and the guillo prepper is town:

2,2,2,1,1,1,1

If we don't:

2,2,2,2,2,2,1

10 levels total vs 13 levels total and the tracker usage will block a level

[Dunnstral]

Unwnd don't look ^

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Level 1 Dunnstral

Spoiler: Level 2 Dunnstral

Spoiler: Level 3 Dunnstral

[Dunnstral]

Wait we can't kill people in this setup right

Why you playing dumb?

[Dunnstral]

Maybe my expectations are misaligned but I expected Isis to seem less, idk, clueless

Or is that scum Isis that I'm so used to

[Dunnstral]

i think if you’re town and you get put in the dungeon pool with two other strong scumreads you just don’t go to the dungeon and kill them

we don’t need power roles if we just do that right

This is a terrible idea

[Dunnstral]

Infinity
Dunns
Anya
Ydrasse
_______
Emily
_______
Morning Tweet
Isis
srckz

is my current running list i have mentally.


alisae hasn't read anything yet and all e knows is the mech plan i explained to them pregame when I read the setup during confirmation, which they also thought was good and just said e would trust me on mechs lol.

people in the top area, how do you feel about this grouping

people in the bottom area, tell me why I should swap you out from here.

I don't see how you can have anya as town

[Dunnstral]

Why is it too early?

[Dunnstral]

i think if you’re town and you get put in the dungeon pool with two other strong scumreads you just don’t go to the dungeon and kill them

we don’t need power roles if we just do that right

Well if they're scum they don't actually get killed

What does this mean?

[Dunnstral]

I wonder if this is the game me and Ydra are the same alignment

But town this time

Much thoughts to be had

What about me?

[Dunnstral]

??

[Dunnstral]

??

Thought your opening was a bit too preemptive for my liking, you usually let things stew before declaring how something should be done

Lame reasoning imo

[Dunnstral]

I think we actually have to do the dungeon N1

If we don't do the dungeon N1 we only have on person with an odd level. That makes us unable to investigate players for whether their level is odd the next night if that player is NKed.

Or at minimum we need two players to prepare the guillotine.

But that removes investigate effects from guillotine preparation.

I think 1 quest 1 guillotine is optimal.
If I do some crazy hard math maybe funky numbers could make just one quest optimal.

How do we investigate players levels?

[Dunnstral]

Have I ever been north of null to unwnd in a game?

[Dunnstral]

Why would you prep the guillotine?

[Dunnstral]

HEAL: Isis
HEAL: Chromium
HEAL: Ydrasse
HURT: Anya
HURT: srckz

[Dunnstral]

They came out of the gate soft-pushing me and that has continued through the rest of their posting

Getting mad when Chromium listed out a mechanical plan and then making a big deal out of it was scummy

It feels like they're positioning themselves to be read favorable rather than figure out what we should be doing with the setup at this point

Speaking of, I'm fine with the dungeon plan

[Dunnstral]

Do you have experience with unwnd? I feel like some people just aren't really mechanically minded

I kind of agree with the trying to be read favorably part

You were in the last game, why ask me this. Also it's been talked about a bit already either here or last game or both

[Dunnstral]

The answer to that is yes, as in I've played in games with unwnd

[Dunnstral]

@dunn Ok I'm just sort of confused and would like you to elaborate about how much you'd expect town!unwnd to focus on mechanics

I'm not sure if you've really grasped what I was saying

I'm thinking back to last game where they did this same thing and got mad when mechanics were being discussed because it would be bad for them, so they had to shut it down. This is in their scum playbook.

[Dunnstral]

I expect them to be aware of what is going on with the mechanics and while they don't have to dig too deep at least focus on the task at hand

Which is: who goes to the dungeon (if anyone) and who preps the guillotine

But instead it feels like they're doing the same thing they did last game as scum, which is, instead of looking at the bigger picture, they're positioning around themself looking good

[Dunnstral]

Subject: Open 812 Guardians of the Fortress Mafia PT

S_S is trying to win over Absin and Lukewarm was getting all irritable about the fact I'm fake whining about being scumread

I worry that I'm focusing too hard on emotional appealing, but I'm not sure how to contest mechanical logic that keeps being put out. My reason to dislike it is true, but I don't know how to dismantle it.

Here is what I saw from them in the scum pt and why I'm not assuming town

[Dunnstral]

Why is your idea of 'i scumread you' especially when it comes to me

Mean we have to commence battle? Even when I was scum in Fortress I was very agitated by this

That's not what happened in fortress, I talked with the other guy and he seemed genuine in a way that you did not

[Dunnstral]

I don't know what you're referring to, if you're implying I scumread you for rping, you're wrong

[Dunnstral]

Dunn do you even know my stances on mechanics because I'm pretty sure I've talked about it before

Why is your idea of 'i scumread you' especially when it comes to me

Mean we have to commence battle? Even when I was scum in Fortress I was very agitated by this

Also stop faking scumreads on me if you don't want me to attack you back?

Otherwise deal with it because I'm moderately omgusy even if I try not to be and I end up being more sensitive when other people throw reads on me that I feel are for bad reasons

[Dunnstral]

Why is your idea of 'i scumread you' especially when it comes to me

Mean we have to commence battle? Even when I was scum in Fortress I was very agitated by this

That's not what happened in fortress, I talked with the other guy and he seemed genuine in a way that you did not

I was pretty much begging for any sort of reasoning to latch onto and you remained steadfast at any attempt lol

What makes this different?

I'm not sure what you're asking me

[Dunnstral]

What are some things you want to ask me?

Let me know what brand of polish you use to sharpen that guillo

[Dunnstral]

If by 'what makes this similar' means your read on me: I don't think it's based on good reasons and it feels forced

[Dunnstral]

And you kept bringing it up like you were fixated on it

[Dunnstral]

I don't actually enjoy continually just trying to one-up someone in an argument. I would even say that I hate it.

Are you saying that this is what I'm doing here?

[Dunnstral]

Starting from the beginning: I was moderately excited for this game, personally I feel the setup is a little rough around the edges but I like the theme and the unique mechanic. I spent some time thinking about optimal play and what I argued for was what I had come up with while people were confirming.

I did not excessively discuss mechanics, only really talking about them again in 108 in response to a suggestion for self-destructive town behavior. Most of my content around this point is me asking questions, though that wasn't intentional:

-138 is trying to get a response from you as to why talking about reads is too early since I don't agree with that
-141 is me wondering if Infinity misunderstands the setup or if they assume would ditch the dungeon (I think this was answered before I asked)
-144 was a remark about how you said we were usually opposite alignments but you mistook it as me asking you for your read on me
-333 is a mechanical question since I assumed it would be 3 people for the dungeon either way, I'm not convinced that investigating player levels is a good plan over simply having people in the dungeon normally
-338 is me being snappy
-364 is me getting more out of morning tweet because the stance they held in the previous post did not feel towny

[Dunnstral]

And me asking why MT voted Infinity was me trying to understand whether she understood that there was no voting this phase (or was at least pretending to think that) or what other motives that had

[Dunnstral]

Regardless of mechanics being 'easy to fake' we still have to talk about them

My initial thought was that nobody goes into the dungeon in which case me outting a bunch of reads on day 1 when we can't elim anyone, right before the mafia kill, would be counter-productive. It was at least something I wasn't focused on. 1 agreed on scumread at the guillotine would have been fine.

[Dunnstral]

so how many wolves do we think are in this game

i would guess 3 since town get the powers from the adventuring

7x Level 1 Townies
2x Level 1 Mafiosos

241 doesn't even make sense, how does 'town get the powers from the adventuring' lead to mafia getting an extra member?

[Dunnstral]

What happens if we pick one person to be town and everyone else does the dungeon

It doesn't win the game cause the dungeon gets cleared right

Hmm

Also: this doesn't make any sense to me

[Dunnstral]

HURT: Infinity324

[Dunnstral]

Also @Unwnd

I said I'm omgusy but in reality I feel like I'm getting pushed by mafia more than the average person and I'm actually correctly identifying fake pushes, while sometimes getting caught up on town

[Dunnstral]

Infinity, did you not read 499?

[Dunnstral]

The problem is that you are assuming I have unwnd hydra at 100% scum and that is not true, and not how I'd play on day 1. You're also ignoring 499 which holds some pretty key context in why I softened my approach in 504

[Dunnstral]

Starting from the beginning: I was moderately excited for this game, personally I feel the setup is a little rough around the edges but I like the theme and the unique mechanic. I spent some time thinking about optimal play and what I argued for was what I had come up with while people were confirming.

I did not excessively discuss mechanics, only really talking about them again in 108 in response to a suggestion for self-destructive town behavior. Most of my content around this point is me asking questions, though that wasn't intentional:

-138 is trying to get a response from you as to why talking about reads is too early since I don't agree with that
-141 is me wondering if Infinity misunderstands the setup or if they assume would ditch the dungeon (I think this was answered before I asked)
-144 was a remark about how you said we were usually opposite alignments but you mistook it as me asking you for your read on me
-333 is a mechanical question since I assumed it would be 3 people for the dungeon either way, I'm not convinced that investigating player levels is a good plan over simply having people in the dungeon normally
-338 is me being snappy
-364 is me getting more out of morning tweet because the stance they held in the previous post did not feel towny

what is the point of this post?

That is my response to you in 499
Also, this is a pretty bad reaction

[Dunnstral]

-138 is trying to get a response from you as to why talking about reads is too early since I don't agree with that

I've been going back and forth with cakez about the dreaded D1 reads. I don't like giving them out unless it becomes like a bookmark, something I can look back on or others can. There are leanings and gut feelings I had, but I like to leave scum guessing. Scum's job is basically to interact with the town not the other way around, so being more vague puts them in a situation where they have to approach me with a risk as they don't know what I'm (mostly) thinking.

I was more explaining my own actions rather than hoping for an explanation from you here, since this is something I've already asked in the past

-333 is a mechanical question since I assumed it would be 3 people for the dungeon either way, I'm not convinced that investigating player levels is a good plan over simply having people in the dungeon normally

I don't think it's a great plan either. I have been thinking myself on how to use the setup to our advantage, but usually my thoughts conclude with a more simple approach. Getting PRs is good for town and will make the game easier. I'll have more to talk about the next day as I want to assume the person who gets the tracker will claim it?

Well this is why I originally proposed skipping tracker and going for the rest of the stuff instead, I was focusing on power roles and levels

If the person who gets the tracker is town and claims it, there's a good chance that they just die; I don't see why they'd claim before using it

-364 is me getting more out of morning tweet because the stance they held in the previous post did not feel towny

So you agree with consensus then?

To be clear, I came up with my reads on my own
If the consensus is the same thing that I'm thinking, then yes, but I'm rethinking infinity after last night, not sure why they're going back and forth on me

[Dunnstral]

-141 is me wondering if Infinity misunderstands the setup or if they assume would ditch the dungeon (I think this was answered before I asked)

Do you think Infinity's misunderstanding was intentional? Or if said misunderstanding was townie, because scum would be more cognizant of how the setup works?

Based on early posts I wouldn't know and I left this behind

[Dunnstral]

I still feel like we're talking past each other because we end up having different expectations.

I interpreted 499 and posts before that as you getting both being upset that we 'always go after each other' and that you needed more to go off of rather than just mechanics

My next post in 504 is me pointing to things I've done that aren't strictly mechanical (even if it's me questioning someone else about mechanics, it has other motivations). And I explained the motivations. 504 is mainly for you, as I don't otherwise go over everything I'm doing/thinking in a game.

My problem is that you came back and responded to it like it was an ongoing list of questions I had, which wasn't my intent, and the last line feels like a setup to me. Also, I do think the way cakez responded to this was scummy for two reasons: It shows they have no idea what is going on there, and it looks like he's trying to 1-up me

[Dunnstral]

The factional nightkill will take place last after everything is calculated. Obviously tracker/watcher will catch them, but they happen after level up/fighting dungeon/getting a drop etc.

Presumably this includes prepping the guillotine

[Dunnstral]

Why not just let people compulsory decide if they're going to the dungeon? Or set up a plan that we could somehow reach the cop incentive before scum kill us off. You're the one with numbers.

The plan for us to get the cop is the plan where we abandon the tracker and level up instead in hopes of getting the other rewards

The other plan is that we instead use the dungeon to take advantage of the 'no multitasking' rule to try to get two scum in the dungeon/guillotine, but even if only one scum is in the dungeon/guillotine there's still an unspoken second phase to this plan

I don't see how letting people decide where they want to go is a better idea than assigning people locations, it seems worse because then there's no chance of both scum being in the same area, and sure, we can read into that, but it's more reliable to have mechanical data that says two people can't be scum together

[Dunnstral]

But why is unwnd talking mechanics he didn't do in Fortress I thought he hated them

It's because it's necessary especially when I disagree in how they're being used.

@Mod

Is the guillotine holder announced as well?

What gets announced is whether the guillotine is prepped or not.

The only way the guillotine fails is if the person assigned to prep it just doesn't do so, and then everybody will know

[Dunnstral]

Why not just let people compulsory decide if they're going to the dungeon? Or set up a plan that we could somehow reach the cop incentive before scum kill us off. You're the one with numbers.

The plan for us to get the cop is the plan where we abandon the tracker and level up instead in hopes of getting the other rewards

The other plan is that we instead use the dungeon to take advantage of the 'no multitasking' rule to try to get two scum in the dungeon/guillotine, but even if only one scum is in the dungeon/guillotine there's still an unspoken second phase to this plan

I don't see how letting people decide where they want to go is a better idea than assigning people locations, it seems worse because then there's no chance of both scum being in the same area, and sure, we can read into that, but it's more reliable to have mechanical data that says two people can't be scum together

Let's do that then? Everyone just keep leveling up until cop comes around and then we all throw ourselves at the dungeon. Anyone who doesn't agree is scum-claiming. Hell, even force scum to do it as long as we still have numbers.

Alternatively, initial thought was that we could all dungeon tonight and make sure scum

can't

level up. I think the first solution is probably apt though and agree with Isis that Tracker is kinda shit

You know I just thought about it

Why not force the two scummiest players to go the dungeon

They literally cannot multitask, meaning they can't kill and do dungeon stuff right?

The only reason for scum to level up is to match with the town and if they don't want to fail a dungeon

If the town all forsakes leveling, we're throwing away a big part of the setup.

Having 2 people die in the dungeon is an interesting idea. My initial thought is that because there are better power roles later on, rushing deaths fast is probably unoptimal

@Mod Can scum go to a dungeon and factional kill at the same time?

Huge brain unwnd breaks the setup and forces scum to either die or give up NKs

Same thing for the guillotine, which is why letting people pick whatever they want is also unoptimal

[Dunnstral]

I thought of the send 2 people to dungeon thing before but the other scum could surprise help with the dungeon so I was like oh that doesn't work.
But I guess you would learn that one of the original two people who were assigned dungeon duty are scum so it would be worth it.

2 in dungeon one on guillotine seems optimal to me now.

I think it likely keeps is from getting to cop ever because the most likely outcome is that three townies die night one but I think the large number of incremental advantages would be way better than a single cop shot.

We trade away both the later dungeons items as well as the ability to use the dungeon to sort people for raw killing power, effectively making this setup mountainous but with extra town elims in between the scum elim

I don't really think it's a good idea

[Dunnstral]

If we are wrong about exactly one scum in the five we trust, that scum can nightkill instead of level up - but this will make sure power roles in the future do not fall into scum hands

If scum night kill and we manage to elim someone inside of the dungeon at a later date, we generate clears

[Dunnstral]

If I had to guess most people want this

Dungeon duty
Anya
Morning Tweet
(Dunn?)


Guillotine holderz
Infinity

Grind gang
Isis
Koba
Ydra
Emily
Me?

Can you name a player who scumreads me right now aside from your hydra?

[Dunnstral]

If we are wrong about exactly one scum in the five we trust, that scum can nightkill instead of level up - but this will make sure power roles in the future do not fall into scum hands

The power roles are useless in scum hands, they would only want it to keep it out of town hands.

What are scum going to do with a tracker, watcher, cop in this setup? Nothing

[Dunnstral]

Mech discussion is moot since DkKoba is boycotting all plans besides theirs.

So just vote on the four people to clear the dungeon and set guillotine

My stance is also "I'm willing to follow the plan that everybody agrees on" while also arguing against plans I don't agree with

[Dunnstral]

The people outside of the guillotine/dungeon?

Chromium, Ydrasse, Emily, Isis, Myself

Is what I'm thinking right now

[Dunnstral]

To be clear, I was under the impression that the hurt/heal would be something updated at the very end of the day. I don't know if I wanted to hurt infinity after the walk back of their read (still not sure how to feel about that)

[Dunnstral]

Town koba is a fireball of aggression and their posts are crafted to try to keep scum on their toes. Scum!koba feels more akin to a swamp because they're so difficult to argue against, but if the aggression is there it's usually only directed in one place. For koba's first couple posts I saw the fireball-ness but it dropped off. I figured it was because of taking a different approach/possibly as a result of the hydra, but their posts since have been awful. I really don't think koba believed the push on isis, and resorting to language like "you're intentionally pushing anti-town mech" is much more swamp-like language than fireball-like language. There's no effort to make scum!isis scared, which is odd for town!koba when they haven't made up their mind yet. The walkback of the push is also awful, and I don't think town!koba ever townreads that post from isis especially when she has been making similarly nuanced posts all game.

This is where I explained my chromium SR best. Lmk if something needs to be explained better

Their plan makes sense to me, though I don't like how the game has devolved into self-destructive behavior in the ensuing arguments
I don't know what this fireball/pond/swamp difference is

[Dunnstral]

Anya don't townpost I can't townread the whole town

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral you're really towny this game but like a lot of people are towny and some of them have higher post counts

It's stressful

Every game is a battle recently

[Dunnstral]

okay i hate making choices

can you guys while youre around give 1 person you would absolutely make guillo, and absolutely keep away from guillo/dungeon?

(guillo is where the naughtiest of scum members go)

I think it makes more sense to put the 'naughtiest of scum' in the dungeon rather than the guillo

[Dunnstral]

is it?

i dont want to give them a chance to take the reward

I guess that's a fair interpretation

[Dunnstral]

Or rather, it is, I was still thinking the dungeon people were dying/had a chance to die. What plan are we doing?

[Dunnstral]

Heal votecount

Isis 4 (Chromium, Infinity, srckz, Anya, Dunn)
Emily 3 (Chromium, Infinity, srckz)
Ydrasse 3 (Chromium, Infinity, Isis
Dunn 2 (Chromium, Anya
Chromium 3 (srckz [cakez side vote], Anya, Dunn)
srckz 1 (Anya)

Hurt votecount

Anya 2 (Chromium, Isis)
Infinity 2 (Chromium, Isis)
Tweetie 2 (Chromium, Infinity)
srckz 1 (Chromium)
Chromium 1 (Infinity)

If this is correct then we should do something like this with the hurt players going in

Notably srckz did not include their own hurt votes in here (?)

[Dunnstral]

I think a lot of it is poe from people who are townreading everybody else

[Dunnstral]

Reeeeee

[Dunnstral]

Slice it up

Slip??

[Dunnstral]

I liked Johnny's posts, except for implying the game should be over

[Dunnstral]

johnny and mt should go in for sure. i want johnny to be on the guillo.

i don’t want isis or you in.

infinity/chrom/dunn/srckz

do you have a preference of these going in? i know isis voiced hers

okay.

we should leash johnny / mt / infinity / srckz.

Is 1460 what we are doing? Who is at the guillo and who is at the dungeon?

[Dunnstral]

Dungeon:

Morning Tweet, Infinity, Srckz

Guillotine:

JohnnyFarrar

[Dunnstral]

Dunn (I really did like his suggestions that much lol)

I was just formatting what Ydrasse said

[Dunnstral]

My townread on unwnd is based entirely on him like marathonning a kind of emotional range that should be out of reach for most scumgames

That's how he gets you

[Dunnstral]

Dunn (I really did like his suggestions that much lol)

I was just formatting what Ydrasse said

I liked some of your other posts too, is your PoE the same even if you formatted it?

I don't feel you have a compelling range as scum (no offense), and think that you have an earnest mentality that wins out. As scum you tend to flatline and be in the range of obstructively null

I'm getting whiplash from how fast your opinion changed from pretty much nothing, if you believe this what was the deal earlier?

I'm generally pretty happy with the dungeon/guillo stuff right now, I'd probably put you in there if it were fully up to me, maybe over johnny

[Dunnstral]

Isis needs the adrenaline rush that only killing somebody can provide

[Dunnstral]

I really wanted the day to end. I don't get Koba's insistence upon 19 more hours of this. Overthinking can be cumbersome and I find the words on my monitor starting to blur. All I'm at right now is 'I'm going to the dungeon' I am more than fine with this and I won't combat it.

Ydra
Isis
Infinity
--
Dunn (I really did like his suggestions that much lol)
Chrom
Emily
--
Tweetie
Anya/Johnny

For my top half of reads

:
This is my pile I think wins us the game if they're just all town. I'm really running on the faith that Ydra/Infinity/Isis is not just a team or cannot possibly contain a team. I think Ydra has strongly towntold and I will hold to that read even in my death. Cross her out of the potential deeply-embedded villain tier. Infinity/Isis in my head are sitting in stasis. I have no

reason

to change my mind, but the game is still young. So why am I bringing this up? Or what's the point. I just think right now scum is just leveraging at best or just actually outpaced at this rate. The perfect game here is they're all town and we go home. I would say that I want to believe that but think Isis/Infinity would be great cop checks if we ever get them. So I would really like to see them in the dungeon at some point in this game.

For my bottom half

:
This is the pile where if I'm lucky both scum are there, or at least one. I'm not going to think about none right now. I've been sitting here thinking about how the whole day has gone so far. Reflecting on my own readlist and thinking how it's formed. I wanted to talk about this dyanmic in a more nuanced fashion. Right now I think everything else that isn't revolving around (Ydra/Isis/Infinity) content is more obfuscated than it should be. I feel like right now Anya/Tweetie are at the bottom because of that, or at least for me personally. I'm not seeing a beating town heart that gets exicted at the opprounity of potential synchnorization. Their approach to the game felt very isolated and so with that I've been going with the idea this is because what we're talking about is either 1) Unapproachble by the means of 'it would be bad to dismantle' or 2) Don't know how to break the dynamic and instead sit and say nothing. In a nutshell- They don't seem into the game. Tweetie has outright admitted this. I can't remember their goals or what they're trying to get out of anything. There's some emotionally good stuff from people like Tweetie but the game might as well be advertised as an emotion communal at this point. I'm seeing their scumminess in the lack of progression and how they stifle.

For my middle half]:
I acutually have more to talk about here because I am the type of player who thinks about their nulls a lot. It is the pile I want to sort as soon as possible almost always.It might seem out of order but my middle is where faith is.. more dependent. For Dunn, I think his attempt to reach me was in a word good. I stand by what I said about Dunn being an earnest town player and I felt that earnestness. He's not in the top though because he's not in the range of (If town then we win). That isn't a reflection of what I think of his competence either, it's just not Dunn's game. I think in some regard Dunn recognizes this, so while he is a typically more muted player, he isn't pushing the issue. I would really like to see Dunn get a PR and then use it somewhere because I think he would make a wise decision and I've been operating on the idea of getting a PR is claimed information and claimed information means a way to read someone. Dunn is not an easy read to me, but when the game is early I don't feel like being all paranoid about him. I gave him a half-ass remark as to why I changed my mind so I deserved to provide further context. Emily is someone who (as ydra said, or close to it) playing a good mediator. She gets in the middle of rabble and tries to defuse it. That is a necessary thing to do and I appreciate that. I think I can't entirely townread it however because it is much easier to observe a conflict than be apart of it. That alone gives me very slight hesistance because I think she believes if she were to take hold of the situation it could turn out bad for her. Her reads right now do not simply follow consensus which is fine but not something I can think 'well her reads are different so must be town.' Scum enjoys the controversy I think. Chrom I have more I wish to say but I'm not trying to start another shitfight. I think they're null or town and if they're scum it won't be my job to figure it out and if anyone asked me to I would shrug my shoulders at this rate.

So to summarize everything

- Infinity/Ydra/Isis hopefully all town. Ydra locktown she can egoquote me if she's not. Cop check Infinity/Isis for good things to happen.
- Anya(Johnny)/Tweeite scum. Hopefully both but I would think at the very least one. They cannot keep up with the demand of this game and have soulless reads.
- Dunn/Chrom/Emily null. I have liked some things about these players and have said 'ok I townread it' but I'm going to decide to keep them here. Please put some of these people into a dungeon as I've suggested.

I like this kind of post but I know you go in hard as scum and are capable of making this type of post as either alignment

I don't get your method where your reads don't seem to be what you actually think but instead what you think can solve the game

[Dunnstral]

I'm seeing their scumminess in the lack of progression and how they stifle.

I think not into the game is a fair characterization

Lack of progression seems a little harsh although id have to pose that question to others

Also I could really see Johnny being town cause im missing why ppl are scumreading there so that kinda feels bad

Out of curiosity, does scum lose (more or less) if two of them get sent into the dungeon? Because either one abandons and the other dies or both abandon and both get shown as escapees -- interesting

This is a tough game i still see every player as possibly scum, although if i rate my levels of hypothetical surprise and shock in my mind...

Ydrasse
Isis
Chrom // Emily
srckz // Johnny
Infinity // Dunny

This is like purely from lingering stuff that seemed towny to me probably by basically tone. And because I have read basically nothing of Dunn. And Chrom/srckz are kinda hedged downwards since i believe every member of those hydras could get townread on a d0 and maybe even would more likely be to be honest. Although I like Chrome more

Agree with Chrome's rationality to drag the day out further i agree thats +town but admittedly it's not as bad for scum if they're already townread. I still like the approach miles more than srckz and whoever voting to end the day

Ydra is playing way different than board games but they were doing some scummy award winning deep fake shit in that game so we'll call it a light townread

Kobas plan is good so kobas good

Tweet seems like they'll be easier to sort with content

Inf is sort of stating more than intuiting most of their content, which hits me all wrong

Dunn is a null but doesn't seem worried about a mech solve despite following along with the mech stuff so lean town

Who am I missing?

using this as a jumping board (springboard?)

I dont see why scum would oppose the optimal mech plan ever and i think "solving" this setup is in both alignments' interest since i think the best conclusion was going to be found so it may as well be you who presents it (if that makes sense). Like it's got an objective best answer more or less i think

Emily is good for reasons

i like that read

I kinda want infinity to be scum for the solveee cause then Isis/Johnny probably are less likely scum and then probably PoE broadens a bit quickly enough for us to address the partner before losing. Course going off vibes i'd just guess infinity w/ srcks but realistically could b anyone

I see mainly Dunn talking mechanical (and as Johnny said, supporting the existing plan). Although i mean i dont see why he wouldnt especially considering i dont think Dunn has gotten any heat this phase. If both partners arent in the dungeon i dont think scum sweats it

Regardless of mechanics being 'easy to fake' we still have to talk about them

hehe why yes my dear i suppose thats true but i still find them more or less helpful for any alignment to participate in if you've got the mind for it. The core idea that "townread ppl are better off so scum need to be townread" thing still applies regardless of mech, the positive reads you get for this discussion outweigh the negatives by far since i believe someone would have revealed the correct strategy anyway. May as well be you

I hate that it seems like im mostly talking about Chrome who i dont really think is all that likely to be scum but if they are i think the mechanical stuff played into ppls reads too much. To ease my soul on the subject...

i reread. who is MT's partner is the solution here.

infinity+MT im locking that in. =

ydrasse, isis or MT, who am i meta diving next?

i really got nothing. most of MT is NAI

the best i got is that infinity/MT don't seem aligned if 1 is scum

Reevaluating me from bottom barrel scum to just scumlean via my meta seems sort of pointless for scum!Chrome but obviously easily town motivated.

Call me biased but i find it a lot more charitable than srckz who is more or less content having me at the bottom for being souless (Which granted i can't exactly blame them, but I find that to be a more believable scum minded read)

Anyway still scrolling thru Dunn's ISO i dont find myself super motivated one way or the other, should see what other ppl say cause I suppose im not exactly great at reading Dunn. It is overwhelmingly mechanics based thru here

There is so much wrong with this

You start by saying you haven't read any of my posts but then it looks like I'm in your bottom tier instead of null, so do you townread everyone or do you think I'm scum without reading my posts? But you also say you see everyone as scum, so you're contradicting yourself here in some way.

Then, I don't like your response to 508, mechanical talk is something that needed to happen, the context for 508 was me talking with unwnd about how he sees me only talking about mechanical stuff. If you're saying it's something that both alignments would do, that's still not a reason to scumread me anyway, that's just null.

[Dunnstral]

At this point I disagree that my iso is primarily mechanics based, I think you saw unwnd say that so started saying that yourself

[Dunnstral]

My best metric for reading you is that dance game. Although I didn't know who you were, I could feel the towniness in your posts. I remember you were in the stump game but don't remember how I read you there, I know I townread your claim in that game

[Dunnstral]

I dont see why scum would oppose the optimal mech plan ever and i think "solving" this setup is in both alignments' interest since i think the best conclusion was going to be found so it may as well be you who presents it (if that makes sense). Like it's got an objective best answer more or less i think

I'm not looking for opposition as much as... like reticence? What's the opposite of excitement?

Discouragement.

[Dunnstral]

your options are:

1) Both of you go to the Dungeon with Johnny to do the quest. Don't nightkill.

2) One of you go to the Dungeon with Johnny, the other one nightkills.

3) Both of you don't go to the Dungeon with Johnny, you go nightkill.

2/3 are suicidal game-throwing.

1. probably results in a scum defeat.

I don't see why the theory that you call tinfoil crap is not plausible for you/infinity to do if you've been correctly pegged as scum together and forced to go to the dungeon.

Also Tweet was the first one that brought this up if I remember correctly, so why do you feel good about her but when I talk about it I am an evil scumbag?

To answer tweetie, the above makes sense to me and I think if srckz/infinity are scum together then they either do this or they don't kill at all and argue that that was somebody elses gambit

If it's not them together then somebody in the 5 outside is scum, and MT can't be scum with either infinity or srckz, and vice-versa, so a scum flip on any would be clearing

[Dunnstral]

Emily is a QT but she might be scum

I liked her last page bottom but it's the kind of analysis town could do.. I think?

Maybe I like it for town indicative reasons I don't know how to articulate to myself.

Does the pairwise clears or the levels of the living players counsel in favor of sorting certain slots earlier and certain slots later?

There could be 0-2 scum outside and there could be 0-2 scum inside

The only info we have is that mt cannot be with infinity, and mt cannot be with srckz, and vice-versa

I think it's worth taking a closer look at mt today and deciding 'what are the odds of this being scum?'

[Dunnstral]

If I think you're mafia I will make it very clear

Two minutes later:

I think Emily is scum because

[Dunnstral]

T -> S at the training camp: Ydrasse, chrom, dunn, emily, isis

VOTE: srckz I feel like my reasons for townreading this slot mostly involve me liking unwnd and/or being pocketed. And the idea of 2 scum being at the camp seems tough to swallow.

Nightkill confirms there's 1 scum in...

Isis/Emily/Dunn/Chrome/Ydrasse

This post shows a lack of awareness of the srckz/infinity thing

[Dunnstral]

i saw one argument for him that was like, "he's complacent with the mech solve" -- like no that's not a good reason to TR imo

I don't remember this ever being a reason somebody has used to tr me this game

[Dunnstral]

If both scum got placed in the dungeon, they lose, but they could kill Johnny and pretend to have gone to the dungeon in order to last a bit longer

This post is the first to bring up the srckz/infinity thing, 16 minutes after post 2007

[Dunnstral]

emily + dunn??
unwnd thinks Dunn is town but I never quite tapped into the same vibes w/Dunn that he did

-cake

emily + dunn??
unwnd thinks Dunn is town but I never quite tapped into the same vibes w/Dunn that he did

-cake

I don't think this

This is weird, am I supposed to buy that cakez doesn't know how unwnd is reading me when that's been a large part of their iso

I didn't get anything

Why would you out this right away instead of sitting on this info?

[Dunnstral]

Ya what emily said with regards to the 2 scum in dungeon though. That was the idea

Dunno if claiming reward is a good idea though

This is a good post with the context that MT can't be scum with either srckz or Infinity

[Dunnstral]

Oka, I hate that you don't get confirmation of who went to the dungeon with you. That makes using it to scum hunt fucking pointless


I'm annoyed, scum knew this didn't they

Why does this matter?

[Dunnstral]

Next dungeon is really strong so we need to go for it

[Dunnstral]

And should indeed talk about it before voting

[Dunnstral]

This kind of tinfoily crap is why I think Emily is scum.
The idea where Infinity and we teamed up to screw Johnny over is just fucking ridiculous. Because as soon as one of us flipped it would have been obvious. We were the top suspects coming out of day 1. Not exactly the way to get to endgame.

-cake

So what would you have done instead as scum?

[Dunnstral]

I heavily dont think we get the scumteam perfectly D0

I'm about positive this qualifies as a variant of Gambler's Fallacy in its context.

Mm, maybe. I really don't see srckz/Infinity being the case, though.

Interestingly enough Emily is doubling down on this possibility and Dunn finds that it makes sense. that is more or less what i was expecting

It makes sense if they're together, the only other real choice is to kill nobody

Individually on reads, I think it's likely that there's scum in there

I think it could easily be a case where 1 of them is scum, and johnny was killed because their flip would otherwise clear the dungeon-goers + guillo prepper (because someone died at night), or/and as MT said keep the pool of 5 wide if there's 1 outside who is looking to play the deep wolf

[Dunnstral]

Like, say, if there were votes for srckz/Infinity team versus another team, who you'd side with.

Right now I think it's a bit more likely for it to be 'another team' that also consists of one of srckz/infinity

With that said, I'm biased enough to where if one flips scum I'd probably end up voting out the other, as a sort of monty hall variant where it becomes more likely that the other is scum

I'd like to vote within Infinity/srckz today, and have the other man the guillotine, I think

[Dunnstral]

I got my second covid shot and am tired but I'm wondering if there's a reason to shoot johnny that's not to frame me/cakez

Yes, there is:

If one of you/srckz/mt are scum with somebody in the group of 5, you can be preemptively killing people who would be cleared with your flip while keeping the 'deep wolf' safer

[Dunnstral]

Chrom
Dunn
Emily
Ydra
Tweet
Isis
Srkz
Inf

Town to scum

I don't believe that a srckz-infinity team chooses to no kill over killing johnny as long as they could reasonably come up with the plan, based on johnny's own reads here

[Dunnstral]

If the team is like srckz + a camp player, isn't shooting Johnny just terrible? I guess id have to think more about that though

If you're gonna frame srckz/Infinity, i think srckz falls first probably so you're basically bussing

Dunno

No, because:

Say ydrasse dies and we kill srckz, and srckz flips scum

That makes MT, Infinity, Johnny all cleared, and one dies at night but then there's still 2 clears left

[Dunnstral]

And the players in the dungeon are there because they were suspected, more or less, so it makes sense to play around the person who isn't suspected

This makes sense to me, I think if the scum were, say, MT, they'd maybe think MT had more of a chance of living and so would have killed someone outside anyway

[Dunnstral]

@Mod

if a person dies in the dungeon, can they still receive the PR?

As previously established, yes

[Dunnstral]

@Mod

If someone in the dungeon were to be nightkilled, would their death make it so the dungeon could be failed? Or does death resolve after.

The death (and kill) resolves after.

[Dunnstral]

The watcher is very important.

Double check the rules: the watcher can watch a location.

[Dunnstral]

A combination of 2240-2242, what srckz pointed out about isis not pushing infinity recently, the talk about a mechanics minded player, and johnny's reads list all have me pondering isis-infinity as a team

[Dunnstral]

Why would we send 5 whole people to quest?

[Dunnstral]

I still think Cop is way more important

Yeah?

Well, then we should have skipped the tracker day 1 like I said

[Dunnstral]

OK so I took a closer look at 2260

Don't scum get a kill on night 4?

[Dunnstral]

I took a closer look at 2260

Doesn't the game become 5-2 mountainous, except for the info we already know from the first dungeon? It doesn't strike me as a very strong tactic

[Dunnstral]

^ I realize now that with watcher in play scum aren't likely to shoot on nights 3 or nights 4 and there's wifom a bout when the watcher will use their ability

[Dunnstral]

I told unwnd this but I didn't see the Johnny frame job play at all myself until it was pointed out
the way Dunn and Emily are going all in on this makes it feel like at least one of them saw it in their scum PT or whatever and wants to capitalize on it now

-cake

How am I going all in? I responded saying the logic made sense if it were you two but ultimately said it was more likely to be 1-1

[Dunnstral]

I still don't think it's fair to point to me and say I'm framing you

To be clear, I've thought that eliminating within the pool of 4 who went into the dungeon/prepped the guillotine was the optimal play from day 1, which I referenced here:

Why not just let people compulsory decide if they're going to the dungeon? Or set up a plan that we could somehow reach the cop incentive before scum kill us off. You're the one with numbers.

The plan for us to get the cop is the plan where we abandon the tracker and level up instead in hopes of getting the other rewards

The other plan is that we instead use the dungeon to take advantage of the 'no multitasking' rule to try to get two scum in the dungeon/guillotine,

but even if only one scum is in the dungeon/guillotine there's still an unspoken second phase to this plan

I don't see how letting people decide where they want to go is a better idea than assigning people locations, it seems worse because then there's no chance of both scum being in the same area, and sure, we can read into that, but it's more reliable to have mechanical data that says two people can't be scum together

What I'm talking about here is that if there's 1 scum in, 1 scum out, eliminating the scum inside of the dungeon clears everybody else inside of the dungeon

I still think it is optimal play to eliminate inside of the dungeon/guillotine if we believe there is at least 1 scum inside of it, which I do believe

[Dunnstral]

When I started talking about johnny dying, it was after it had already been pointed out. Rather, that's when I first had a chance to post, and it had been talked about. I responded to, I believe, Emily, saying that if you were both scum together, yes that would make sense. I did not say that you were scum together or reference this as a reason to eliminate you today (or at least, I don't remember doing that)

Somebody was talking about unwnd making kills on day play alone. I pointed to Johnny's reads list as I did not believe that type of thinking is clearing

The monty-hall thing is: If we eliminate Infinity and they flip scum, you'd be more likely to be scum because other possibilities would close and it becomes a situation where either it was 1-1, or it was 0-2; 2-0 would no longer be an option, mechanically

Right now it feels like you are performing omgus, but not really looking into what I'm saying, even though you have so many converns about me (supposedly), and that is concerning to me, it doesn't feel like you guys are approaching my slot in good faith

[Dunnstral]

Reads-wise, I think Tweetie has towned up today and the rest have not

[Dunnstral]

I did understand the mechanics! If you're gonna call me scum call me scum

But to think I drool on myself at night is another thing

So what was this series of posts:

if you and inf are scum you can't really shoot ydra without giving yourself away?

Why not? I really don't see how that. Could you explain it?

Moreso, explain it why scum couldn't shoot Ydra here. Or if (not shooting Ydra) only makes sense where me/Inf are scum

[Dunnstral]

Knowing Emily's identity makes me less confident she is town. I'm not sure I can put her at the front of the marathon pack for towntelling the most. I increasingly want to buy a world where she is town and Cakez is scum with infinity. The main other ways to make space for her to be town is Dunnstral or Ydrasse being scum, neither of which feel right.

I maybe should be worried I am townreading scumstral here. It's never happened before but probalistically the opportunity to make the mistake shouldn't come up often. My reasons for townreading him aren't voluminous at all but after 10 games with somebody where I've scumread him by now in like 6 of them it seems he should be town by default

Why does knowing their identity make them less likely to be town though

Also, you've never townread me when I was scum?

[Dunnstral]

Like the Johnny kill was just optimal

You might portray it like it'd take a scum mastermind which i think is debatable but regardless it's still optimal play IMO

Leaving all the campers alive and making the dungeoneers look really sus (when they were already being sussed) and possibly getting back to back elims on the dungeoneers is huge. Not killing the campers is also huge because thats more paranoia suspects left alive making it harder to discern the scum inside there when we get to that point

Dunnstral demonstated he understood the ramifications of how the nightkills work pretty well. Isis is capable. Emily/Ydrasse im not familar with their mechanical ability. I might be capable -- you have to remember when you're scum you're more likely to look at every kill possibility and analyze them each, obviously as town thats not really at the front of your mind.

I somewhat believe Chrome not understanding the mechanics, and I certainly do srckz

A better way to go about this is to think about which combination of two players wouldn't do this (not something I know the answer to)

[Dunnstral]

it actually slightly harms town since it wastes the dungeon cycle from being used

We should figure out whether we're using the dungeon tonight or not

If we do I believe we can't go for cop but watcher can camp the training field

[Dunnstral]

I also don't think Emily is with infinity/srckz

I could see Isis/Infinity

Why am I with isis?

---

I'm ready to vote except that I don't know what the plan for the night is

[Dunnstral]

I also don't think Emily is with infinity/srckz

*and I believe Emily is townier than either

[Dunnstral]

The exact assignments for these literally don't matter so I'll just make some.

If srckz is town we can't earn PRs in the future so we could just have everyone guillotine as well, morning and ydrasse camping is kinda pointless

And again if srckz is scum not a single person can abandon post as scum without losing. A party wipe + NK leaves the game at 3v1. This plan allows us to get the Watcher shot and the Cop shot next night as well

////////////////////////////////////////////////

If srckz is town:

Morning and Ydrasse camp (or guillotine)

Isis, Dunn, and Chrome guillotine

Emily dungeon

Infinity tracks or camps

Result: Nightkill cannot be stopped, 3v2 Xylo if emily!town, 4v2 Mylo with guilty on Emily if Emily!scum

////////////////////////////////////////////////

If srckz is scum:

Emily + Morning camp

Ydrasse guillotine

Isis, Dunn, and Chrome dungeon

Infinity tracks or camps

Result: No nightkills are possible, Watcher and Cop are achievable

////////////////////////////////////////////////

I'm mostly fine with this with the following caveats

Why 3 guillo preppers if srckz is town?
I think you've been implying for a while that I can easily be scum with srckz and I don't know how you can think this

[Dunnstral]

I'm fine with 2618 then

I want confirmation from Isis/Chrome that they'd enter the dungeon on a scum flip before we move on

[Dunnstral]

I'm fine with 2618 then

I want confirmation from Isis/Chrome that they'd enter the dungeon on a scum flip before we move on

Is it a suicide thing or successful quest thing

I don't think chrom should be limmed this game but if my slot is sussed I'm fine with suicide questing

Naturally fine with successful questing.

Haven't read the whole thread

It would be me/you/chrom, I just want to make sure we're all on the same page on what we're doing before ending the day

[Dunnstral]

I desire blood

[Dunnstral]

You haven't voted a single time

Was waiting for an agreed-upon plan

VOTE: srckz

[Dunnstral]

I feel like I've articulated the reasons for townreading Dunnstral better than anyone else has articulated reasons which seems like somebody is a partner and then he hasn't done very much at all day 2 which could be scum!Dunnstral with less endurance to keep going into midgame

I don't think it's true to say I haven't done much day 2

[Dunnstral]

Sorry ydra would have been easy if I hadn't died