Micro 1041: Geriatric F11 [Postgame]

[Three]

VOTE: Andante

Serious vote.

[Three]

VOTE: mc esther

Umlaut is very likely town. Roadkill is probably town, I mainly just like that he helped push us out of RVS so quickly.

[Three]

I can see lolhammers happening, but I don't think a page 1 lolhammer was going to happen here. Andante slightly +town for her reaction though, I think scum would try to be more calm and controlled in their response to a page 1 E-1. Scum are more likely to think panic will be seen as a scum tell, and instead try to give a townie-sounding response to diffuse the situation.

[Three]

This on the other hand is bad

no it's not

UNVOTE:
VOTE: three

fourth on the andante wagon, third on me

actually he was just third on both wagons, that's not anywhere near as bad.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: dwlee

burning through my postcount with trivial errors gogogo

This is a weird justification, but the vote hopping kind of pings me as town. Though personally I'd likely scum read whoever's third on a wagon in a micro set up, I feel like the middle of a wagon is the best place for scum to hide.

VOTE: Dwlee

E-1. I don't think their heart's in this game.

[Three]

VOTE: mc esther

Umlaut is very likely town

Why and why?

Unvote, Vote Dwelee

Esther vote was because the Andante wagon was useless and I wanted a new wagon, plus early competing wagons are a good thing.

Umlaut is an early town read to me because I like 18, and any serious attempts to push us out of RVS ASAP are +town for me.

[Three]

@Roadkill:

Do you think you could put your vote somewhere else for now? Voting Andante is pointless while she's on VLA and has minimal content for us to work with.

[Three]

In a limited post set up, I think everyone should be expected to make their posts count. You've done it before as town when there wasn't a post restriction anyway, so there isn't any reason to believe you couldn't do it now.

[Three]

I am typically still memeing this early idk what games you're looking at

I don't really see any memeing either. : /

Do you have any takes, preferably hot?

[Three]

I am typically still memeing this early idk what games you're looking at

I don't really see any memeing either. : /

Do you have any takes, preferably hot?

Three I'm starting to think you're not thinking when you say things like this

My takes are umlaut town, mc esther scum. I don't have enough experience with her to know if the vote hopping is normal from her but I think it's slightly scum-indicative.

I am thinking, though I don't really have a normal thought process I guess. Could you explain what you believe I said wrong/thoughtlessly here? I don't see it.

I agree with Umlaut town, Esther scum is more of a hot take though. She's null town for me, I just want to see her engage with the game a bit more. Is everyone else null for you?

[Three]

This on the other hand is bad

no it's not

Oh well if you say so.

Everyone, Esther has clarified that her post isn't bad, nothing to see here.

"Bad" is a loose term, anyway. What did you even mean when you called her post bad? Did you mean it was a post a wolf was more likely to make? Did you mean it was anti-town or illogical? Did you simply disagree with what it was saying? Those are all valid interpretations and even though I assume it's the first I can't actually be sure.

You could be calling her post bad and she could be denying it and you might even both agree with each other but you have different definitions.

I've used "bad" as casual shorthand myself so I'm not trying to act superior. I've just given it some thought and maybe instead of calling things "bad" (or, on that subject, using the impossibly vague and somewhat offensive "gross") we could make it a habit to explain what we mean in precise terms.

Bad post. Bad vote.

SA, Three, mcE, roadkill town.

Phone posting so unlikely to do words proper until a bit later in the day assuming noone gets limmed prior to then.

I like these early wagons and have a bit to digest.

UNVOTE:

i want to have more to say about wh4t but the flippant response at the start of this post short-circuits me into a loop of "rebellious scum? aloof town?" over and over.

Do you think the flippant response + four early unexplained town reads, weighs more toward town or scum? I'm mixed on them; I personally don't see a scum agenda in it, it feels like it's going against the grain a bit since they aren't consensus reads. But the "bad post bad vote" response feels very much like they're trying to get a reaction out of Joqiza. I'm also not sure why they unvoted instead of moving their vote, I'd like an explanation from them about that and their reads.

[Three]

i should really start pausing and thinking a little before ending these posts.

I just want to see her engage with the game a bit more.

is there any, uh, "thing" (post? iso? event? idk lol) specifically that you'd like me to weigh in on? i'll give it a shot, but there's a good chance that i havent weighed in on it because i dont have thoughts.

Not anything in particular. I'd just like to see a bit more initiative in general, but this isn't particular to you in hindsight since I feel the same about wh4t and Dwlee. I assume it's wariness about hitting the daily post limit, which is fair, but no one's really gotten close to that yet.

I am typically still memeing this early idk what games you're looking at

I don't really see any memeing either. : /

Do you have any takes, preferably hot?

Three I'm starting to think you're not thinking when you say things like this

My takes are umlaut town, mc esther scum. I don't have enough experience with her to know if the vote hopping is normal from her but I think it's slightly scum-indicative.

I am thinking, though I don't really have a normal thought process I guess. Could you explain what you believe I said wrong/thoughtlessly here? I don't see it.

I agree with Umlaut town, Esther scum is more of a hot take though. She's null town for me, I just want to see her engage with the game a bit more. Is everyone else null for you?

I feel like it's kind of an unspoken rule when signing up for this game that you won't just meme around / you'll try to be serious about it. That's kinda the point of this rule set.

Andante is sorta townie.

@Roadkill

I'm not going wild because serious + post restriction + page 3. I think that should be pretty obvious. I don't think the content so far is super enlightening on a cursory glance which is pretty much the response you predicted but yea

That's fair, and I do agree with that and commented similarly earlier.

[Three]

I'm not even sure who I want to vote here tbh

When in doubt, vote to set up competing wagons.

Not a fan at all of Joqiza's random vote on me. The vote on me to see what would happen makes no sense if you're not going to make an actual push.

[Three]

I haven't had much to say because the majority of the conversation has revolved around Andante vs Joqiza, and I just don't have much to say about it. I was watching mainly to look for alignment indicative stuff, but honestly I think it's just devolved into a long-winded slap fight. Just walls upon walls of essays thrown at each other to the point my eyes glaze over trying to read it. I think it would be better for the game state and everyone's WIM if both of them let it go for now and interact with other people more for a bit.

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

[Three]

I haven't had much to say because the majority of the conversation has revolved around Andante vs Joqiza, and I just don't have much to say about it. I was watching mainly to look for alignment indicative stuff, but honestly I think it's just devolved into a long-winded slap fight. Just walls upon walls of essays thrown at each other to the point my eyes glaze over trying to read it. I think it would be better for the game state and everyone's WIM if both of them let it go for now and interact with other people more for a bit.

So talk about something other than "the majority of the conversation"? If you don't like what people are talking about, talk about something else. This is not a good excuse.

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Assuming this is true, it would mean Looker was able to determine that Wh4t is scum based on their two (2) posts. So unless you think Looker is a god-tier reader who can correctly determine alignment in ways other players cannot hope to fathom, you should be able to point out what is scummy about those posts themselves. Otherwise this basis for a policy lim is complete nonsense.

I'd really like Andante to try and explain for herself what makes her say Looker's slot is scum.

No idea why you're getting bent out of shape over stopping a 1v1 that several people admitted they were not even reading. So little was going on outside of it that half the player list was basically not playing. And I did get everyone to start talking about other things, so that complaint was really shortsighted.

Looker doesn't need to be a god tier reader...? I said "tries", not "always". And I said Looker is a decent fallback choice to lim if we can't decide on anyone else, not that he's a 100% lockscum slot that needs to be booted ASAP. You didn't really need to take what I said to such a wild extreme, it's just unnecessary shade.

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus.

i dont get the policy elimination angle. assuming he scumread the slot before replacing in: why would we at deadline go "okay better sheep pre-replacement looker's hypothetical scumread" over sheeping any other player's actual stated in-thread read? and if you do believe there's a compelling reason to take his hypothetical pre-replacement read seriously over everyone else, why would you wait until end-of-day to act on that belief?

p-edit: i dont think this is the same question that looker asked, but yeah we're approaching this from a similar angle and i intuitively like that even if i shouldnt.

Not really sure what you're asking here. If you're saying "why would we settle for a policy lim instead of our scum reads," the answer is that we shouldn't. I'm saying if we're near EoD and we can't agree on a vote, Looker is a good choice since I'm pretty sure the slot isn't being town read.

To respond to 136, I would say, yeah, some of me vs. Andante could be characterized as a slapfight, but not all of it? Andante extended me a bit of an olive branch with 121, and I responded with 124, which is my theorizing on other slots keeping in mind the possibility of a TvT... so to say I need to focus on other slots is sort of... well, it just doesn't seem quite right to me. I'm sorry if you think I'm long-winded but, on the other hand, it's a 6 page game. I really don't think it's that bad... (I've played in a 17,000 post game before, so.)

However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Are you able to explain what makes you so confident on this? In my view, he's sort of the conundrum of, lowposting wolf vs. LHF bait.

Not sure if the discussion about a Looker policy lim is serious or a joke but would add that I am down for said policy lim for the sole reason that his avatar is HORRIFYING.

I wouldn't characterize it all as a slap fight, I think some of it gave us some alignment-indicative content to analyze, but after a certain point your argument stopped being productive. Like I said earlier, several people just stopped paying attention, and the closer we get to EoD the less helpful it is to keep a 1v1 going that not everyone is invested in. I don't want to vote either of you today and I don't want scum to have cover that let's them coast by.

I'm confident on Dwlee because they aren't a LHF player and their current posting is out of character for their town game. They aren't scum hunting, they don't seem to have any strong opinions, reads are minimal with little explanation, and there's just this general feeling of trepidation and caution that they've had in their posts. I'm not saying that there is a burden of proficiency here, I'm not expecting Dwlee to solve the game and claiming that I'll scum read them if they don't, but their play here doesn't really match with what I've seen in the past.

I have more to say, but I'm at work and my posts are going to be spread out until I get home and unwind.

[Three]

VOTE: Looker Looker repped into a scum slot

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus. However I feel confident that I'm currently voting scum and would like to stay on Dwlee.

Spoiler:

Spoiler: Also

Dear Three,

It's not personal. You're really smart but you're also really town, so I have to disagree with/undermine/gaslight/ignore you to get you to cease existing in this inconsequential game. I'm sure we'd be real good friends IRL...at least until you got to know me

I've killed Three twice as scum - in Open 383 (which is what the above is referring to), and Mini 2246 - for context. I feel this is why he said what he said.

That was Jacket that antagonized you, though, not me, so let's just be friends

I have no personal problems with you, I think you're a good player and generally pleasant. But I have noticed a pattern that extends beyond just the games we've played together in, such as the Cop Killer game that was brought up.

joqiza, and im not accusing you of anything because ik ive fucked this up in other gamethreads, but: "them" for dwlee, not "him".

this is perhaps a strategically unwise use for my postcount lmao but it's not like ive been posting a ton anyway. im really just waiting for umlaut to get in so we can maybe get some consensus and avoid a compromise deadline elim, and for three to get in so i can actually sort him beyond "idk lol vaguely weird". im not expecting andante to come back i have a hunch her inactivity's going to continue all the way to replacement (and i dont think that's ever alignment-indicative).

If there's anything else you want to know from me to get a better read on me, just shoot me some questions. I'll reply when I have the time. Why is your current stance on me "idk lol vaguely weird"?

[Three]

I'm almost entirely certain Looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots, so I'm not against a policy lim here if we near EoD and can't reach a consensus.

i dont get the policy elimination angle. assuming he scumread the slot before replacing in: why would we at deadline go "okay better sheep pre-replacement looker's hypothetical scumread" over sheeping any other player's actual stated in-thread read? and if you do believe there's a compelling reason to take his hypothetical pre-replacement read seriously over everyone else, why would you wait until end-of-day to act on that belief?

Not really sure what you're asking here. If you're saying "why would we settle for a policy lim instead of our scum reads," the answer is that we shouldn't. I'm saying if we're near EoD and we can't agree on a vote, Looker is a good choice since I'm pretty sure the slot isn't being town read.

im very much struggling to get that latter statement out of what you initially said. i suppose the claim here is that "looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots" can hold true in this case because nobody townread wh4t (except me -- i earlier implied that other players shared my townread, this is actually incorrect, and weakens the case for lurking maf!looker), but that's just such an odd way of phrasing the sentiment imo.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: three

What exactly makes that scummy? What's your thought process that takes you to a place where you ignore you prior scum reads to vote me over my explanation behind potentially voting Looker? How are you struggling to understand yet repeating what I said so succinctly? Do you really believe the phrasing itself is enough to earn a scum read?

[Three]

im having a hard time believing that's what you meant, it looks like a retrofitted meaning for statement you hadnt fully thought through because youre not town. it "works" if you squint, like, you can totally claim that "looker intentionally tries to rep into scum slots" actually meant "nobody's townreading wh4t, which makes me believe looker's intentionally repped into a scumslot, which i also believe is something he attempts to do". but i think what you wouldve said if you meant that wouldve been more along the lines of "wh4t and now looker have been lurking hardcore, so im not against a policy lim here. strengthening this, i also think looker tries to replace into scum slots", like, i think that first sentence is how people usually call for policy eliminations on lurkers.

This doesn't make any logical sense to me. How can I accuse Looker of lurking if he had literally just repped in at the time and was actually posting? Also claiming I'm trying to retrofit the meaning of what I said is just silly.

You're genuinely trying to claim that, as scum, I made such an apparently bizarre statement without not only thinking it through, I also said it for literally no reason? Like what do I gain out of it as scum? To needlessly get suspicion thrown at me? It's like you saw a weird statement and just took it at face value as scummy, but didn't think through any of the logistics or reasoning for

why

scum would do that.

dont worry, i wont use post limit as an excuse to stop contributing so close to end of day, i'll dip into reserve if need be. you werent talking about lurking, you were talking about a lack of townreads, my bad; but my overall point remains the same, that i think youd emphasize the thing that actually made you want the policy elim (the lack of townreads on that slot, not lurking, my bad, though the two are related), rather than speculation on looker's replacement habits.

Why would I? This is again just a shallow/face value take on what I said.

[Three]

Also I wasn't fence sitting Andante vs Joqiza, I don't remember if I outright said you two were TvT but I felt it was at least implied I thought so by virtue of me saying your content had alignment indicative content, told you two it would be healthier for the game state to cut the argument short and interact with other people, then proceeded to push Dwlee as a scum read.

[Three]

I actually don't care. If you'd rather play word police and vote people because they said something you don't like instead of just playing Mafia, then be my guest. I don't have the mental energy or capacity to argue against "you said policy lim Looker so you're scum" and I don't know I'm supposed to react to that or towntell off of it.