Micro 1053: DmangwGBiaf [game over]

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Koopa

[Aristeia]

I am just sad Dats doesn't flirt with me anymore.

He has serious moderator duties :<

[Aristeia]

but she’s so breathtaking in the moonlight

I am going to suppress my paranoia and take this compliment at face value

thank you ydra this made my day <3

you look lovely as well.

[Aristeia]

Dwlee I am curious why you decided to open more proactively than usual.

Are you worried I will murder you instantly?

[Aristeia]

do you want to talk about what you noticed?

[Aristeia]

I'm confused how this makes me more likely to be mafia.

[Aristeia]

I'm not going to flirt with Dats or express jealousy in a game that he's moderating in because forum rules prohibit him from responding to me due to Moderator Interference rules.

I would actually feel somewhat bad about not being responded to because I am not rational.

I do like reading his flavor and vote counts.

I guess I can sort of see why you would think me not flirting with him is scum indicative in some weird kind of way.

[Aristeia]

Why would I be jealous of George Bailey?

He is a nice person and he makes Dats laugh and contributes to his happiness.

I am indebted to him.

[Aristeia]

if I expressed jealousy of every person who brings joy into Datisi's life I would be somewhat of a psycho no?

I'm confused why you think this of me.

[Aristeia]

I guess it isn't entirely outside the realm of possibility that you actually believe this about my personality,

somewhat disappointing if you do.

[Aristeia]

my choices currently are:

(a) Dwlee thinks I'm a psychopath who is jealous of everyone who makes Datisi happy

(b) Dwlee is trying to make a joke about me loving Datisi.

(c) Dwlee!scum is trying to fake thoughts to get me to townread them for a believable progression/attack on me very early in the game.


I'm going with choice (b) because I don't particularly like (a) or (c) in terms of how unpleasant it will be for me to play either of those out.

[Aristeia]

ok I guess I'm just not very good at following along with internet humor.

Sorry for taking this too seriously Dwlee.

[Aristeia]

the drama...

I am such a neurotic mess :<

[Aristeia]

just dance with me it’ll all be okay....

<3

you are the best ydra

[Aristeia]

There was one post i felt was townie from Aristeia so far, but i know their scum game is pretty decent from our last game together.

my pronouns are she/her

thanks for saying nice things about my scum game.

[Aristeia]

vibing > reading

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Jack

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

Hi Gamma!

Hi Koba!

[Aristeia]

You will be missed Ydra <3

[Aristeia]

I have a secret scumread that I am just going to sit on for now.

[Aristeia]

what are your feelings about Dwlee?

[Aristeia]

I have a secret scumread that I am just going to sit on for now.

Why would you sit on that read? I am assuming it’s not who you’re voting on, else it wouldn’t be secret. Do you believe this player and Jack to be aligned?

to let it marinate

[Aristeia]

Can you be more specific please?

Do you think Dwlee should've been able to townread you or is their push on you simply in bad faith? I'm confused what you mean.

[Aristeia]

I am not a fan of secret reads and it lets people hide and say whatever they want later. I’d rather you not let it marinate too long so I can get a read on you.

that's cute

[Aristeia]

I am not a fan of secret reads and it lets people hide and say whatever they want later. I’d rather you not let it marinate too long so I can get a read on you.

that's cute

How so?

[Aristeia]

no they mean they are going to chill and take it "easy" compared to their normal 5000 mile per hour play as town and they are asking us not to scumread them for it. [Koba has a tendency to blaze past the speed limit like gasoline is free when they roll town]

[Aristeia]

Do agree on Rean being scum if a certain person is Rean but don't think that person is Rean.[Though I might be thinking of a different person than you and I don't feel like alt-guessing or outting the slot]

[Aristeia]

can we pls not end day before I am ready

my pet scumread might get away

[Aristeia]

can we pls not end day before I am ready

my pet scumread might get away

Ya u can call me scum already

it would be incredibly rude for me to tell you to change your playstyle and then scumread you for changing your playstyle

[Aristeia]

maybe it's me <3

you are funny <3

[Aristeia]

Hi MB! : )

I am surprised you are not trying to murder me <3

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Yeet

[Aristeia]

Hi MB! : )

I am surprised you are not trying to murder me <3

i think this is a lie

Do you think it’s a scum lie?

what do you think?

[Aristeia]

Hi MB! : )

I am surprised you are not trying to murder me <3

Considering I think you’re town, no I wouldn’t try to murder you.

Mildly curious how you figured it out this time ;]

[Aristeia]

What would you rather do Fen?

[Aristeia]

mmm could you explain the Fen townread?

[Aristeia]

I skimmed his iso

I don't see a read on you much less a re-eval

can you please quote where you think he's um, expressing a read on you and thinking about it?

[Aristeia]

We're basically waiting to see if Yeet decides to play atp

[Aristeia]

I'm not really sure why she isn't playing the normal towngame I expect her to play. It's not aggressive

?

I don't really get this take.


We've played two games together afaiw;

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89172

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987

in both games you are much more involved in game flow, solvy, display excessive confidence in your own reads etc and here you're just kind of not that.

I didn't like that and I voted you - you're now at E-1. I didn't aggressively push for you to be voted out before you played because;

(a) you might just have real life circumstances and it'd be a shame to mislim off that.

and

(b) it'd be interesting to see what content you produce in case we do elim you and you flip mafia.

I don't really like your catchup wall not just because you're voting for me but your takes feel somewhat vapid - like you're just making very surface level observations and not really saying much about people's alignments etc - it feels somewhat close to resigned scum anti-spew.

[Aristeia]

It's weird to me why you feel so "confused" as you put it because imo Panic Room had a much stronger PL and harder to read players than this one and you were extremely confident in your reads in that game so it just feels kind of off to me that here you are acting like you are confused and don't really know what to do.

[Aristeia]

when you say you are scumreading me for lack of aggression - can you be more specific about what type of aggression you think is missing from the thread from me?

for example what exactly do you think Town!me would've done so far this game that in your opinion scum!me hasn't done?

[Aristeia]

Why are Aristeia and Norwee town? Me not townreading them rn seems to be an unpopular take

I don't quite understand this take from you since me/norwe are literally the only people with votes on them other than you so it feels more like a take stated because you can maybe get somewhere with voting us rather than an actual statement that you suspect us for ??? reasons.

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure I want the day to end here.

the more I think about it the more this vote from yeet feels so bad that maybe he doesn't even do it as mafia

[Aristeia]

it isn't townie but if he's going to make the effort I'd like to hear him out.

[Aristeia]

are you going to explain your scumread of me in more depth now?

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

I'm not sure I want the day to end here.

the more I think about it the more this vote from yeet feels so bad that maybe he doesn't even do it as mafia

Actually I mean you say that but you also say this here. It feels a little inconsistent - did you unvote me because of this reason right here or are you unvoting me because you don’t think I’m townie but I’m making effort? I doubt I’m “catching you for being inconsistent” here as scum but like idk I still want a more clear explanation on your process

I unvoted you because I thought your vote feels like a bad move for you to make as mafia in the position you are in.

I don't actually know how you play scum so it's not something to townread you for - I'd rather talk out why you think I am scum.

[Aristeia]

when you say you are scumreading me for lack of aggression - can you be more specific about what type of aggression you think is missing from the thread from me?

for example what exactly do you think Town!me would've done so far this game that in your opinion scum!me hasn't done?

Uh again my answer is gonna be pretty general here, I don't really have anything specific for you at this moment. I play very much in-the moment. But I expect you to be pushing people and lines of questioning and getting intense which I don't see much of. Perhaps it is simply too early, but I definitely don't see why people are townreading you, at the very least.

In isolation I don't really "scumread you" persay. You have a solid town and scumgame which makes reading you in general difficult. I'm very much a PoE player and no one this game exactly sticks out as scum.

Well I am pushing you because of the play divergence from the previous two times I've played with you.

I don't really understand how you expect me to be "aggressive" in questioning you when you're not really here or taking very many stances.

I think people are townreading me because I'm town : )

[Aristeia]

Like every time you've actually dropped game relevant stuff in thread I've been fairly quick to follow up with you on things I don't like about it.

I'm not really sure what you expected me to do prior to you SRing me when you were basically ghosting the thread ? - I can't really questions someone who is not here.

[Aristeia]

In isolation I don't really "scumread you" persay. You have a solid town and scumgame which makes reading you in general difficult. I'm very much a PoE player and no one this game exactly sticks out as scum.

This isn't how PoE works though.

You can scumread me if you townread everyone else by PoE.

If you don't have solid reads anywhere else how are you PoEing me?

[Aristeia]

What is not organic about it? Can you explain what you think a catchup wall needs to be more organic to your standards?

And I apologize for no spacing, I do realize it makes it a bit difficult to read.

It feels like something you are obligated to do and performative in that regard.

Like you decided hey I'm going to sit down and write thoughts on each slot and you pressed ISO one by one and wrote down whatever you thought of the ISO.

It implies you haven't been forming reads in real time but kind of just slacking and catching up at the end.

[Aristeia]

Well just aggressive in general, not just towards me at the time necessarily. As town you can't only care about me at that point when I wasn't in the game, you should be sorting others as well.

And did you even reading my response about my meta? You are just saying the same thing as before so what are your thoughts on that?

I don't see why I would change aggression towards someone else if you are a decent lead for me and haven't towntold/done townie things.

I didn't find it convincing because

(1) I'm comparing early game to early game.

(2) your period of inactivity in that large normal had more to do with the game state being dominated by a few exceptionally loud players and a game thread moving very quickly - neither of which is happening currently.

[Aristeia]

What is not organic about it? Can you explain what you think a catchup wall needs to be more organic to your standards?

And I apologize for no spacing, I do realize it makes it a bit difficult to read.

It feels like something you are obligated to do and performative in that regard.

Like you decided hey I'm going to sit down and write thoughts on each slot and you pressed ISO one by one and wrote down whatever you thought of the ISO.

It implies you haven't been forming reads in real time but kind of just slacking and catching up at the end.

I told you how I formed the readslist

And yes you are correct except I didn't ISO everyone individually, I just reskimmed the whole game. I mentioned that I didn't have time the past few days and that's why I was more or less out. I am here now.

What is scummy about any of this?

It feels like you were not very interested in sorting/solving as the thread was actually happening and you needed to re-read everything because you were going to be killed otherwise.

That's scummy because some people do not like playing scum and have to be made to fake a town mindset.

[Aristeia]

to put it more simply:

I'm scumreading the gap in your enthusiasm between the games we played together[where you were town] and this game.

Faking a townmindset/solving as scum is not

fun

for a lot of people so they tend to not do it.

When I played previously with you - both times you were very enthusiastic in solving during the early game and I felt quite good about slotting you as town.

Here you just feel like you didn't really show up to play and then when put to e-1 you did a "Catchup" that felt more like someone who had to produce some homework they procrastinated on for too long than someone actually trying to communicate their mindset.

[Aristeia]

ok I guess I will take it at face value that the reason for your absence was rl related and not alignment related and I hope you will make up the difference now that you have time to play.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats

(*˘︶˘*).｡.:*♡ Have a Good Night (´♡‿♡`)

[Aristeia]

kinda true

[Aristeia]

flashwagoning a slot without a player is kind of ick

[Aristeia]

what if they are a TPR?

[Aristeia]

you also don't get to see the reaction

[Aristeia]

town power role

[Aristeia]

to put it more simply:

I'm scumreading the gap in your enthusiasm between the games we played together[where you were town] and this game.

Faking a townmindset/solving as scum is not

fun

for a lot of people so they tend to not do it.

When I played previously with you - both times you were very enthusiastic in solving during the early game and I felt quite good about slotting you as town.

Here you just feel like you didn't really show up to play and then when put to e-1 you did a "Catchup" that felt more like someone who had to produce some homework they procrastinated on for too long than someone actually trying to communicate their mindset.

I take it you know who their main is? What gave it away for you?
(Btw, i don’t really know)

I have no idea what yeet's main is, I'm just going off the two games I played with them

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Save the Dragons

I don't understand the townreads on this slot

[Aristeia]

he just feels very coasty which is more in line with his scum!meta rather than his town!meta

there's very little solviness going on here.

[Aristeia]

like on this page:

viewtopic.php?p=13347170#p13347170

yeet gets to e-1 and he's just kind of standing there going "I don't want this" but he doesn't really explain why or what he wants instead.

it just feels so wallflowery.

[Aristeia]

I don't think it was clear from your posting on that page or the next pages if you TRed Yeet, why you TRed yeet, or what you wanted as an alternative.

it just felt like you didn't feel any urgency to defend him given he was at e-1 at the time and you were just kind of shrugging in terms of what would happen?

[Aristeia]

It's a matter of how invested he seems in the outcome of the day [the flip]

He doesn't seem to care who gets flipped and I find that more typical of his scum games than his town games:


Recently Completed Scum Games:
Large Normal
8-Ball
2267


Recently Completed Town Games:
1042
843


In 2 of the 3 scum games - he doesn't really seem to invest much into the day outcome, in 8-ball he kind of does I guess?

In both town games he is active in pushing for the outcome he wants.

Here he does not seem to care and I find that scum!indicative for him.[As in he thinks you're going down but he doesn't want to get his hands dirty because you're dying anyway]

[Aristeia]

Fen why do you want to flip Norwee or Rean today?

[Aristeia]

can you use more words and try to convince me of your thought process and conclusion please?

[Aristeia]

looseygoosey

this made my night

ty

[Aristeia]

hmm

I am feeling less certain than I did two days ago and it's not a good feeling.

@Dats will we get a deadline extension for the replacement?


Kinda want to see more Dwlee/Gamma. I dunno why this game feels super dead >_> you guys should be a chatty group

[Aristeia]

I don't think it was clear from your posting on that page or the next pages if you TRed Yeet, why you TRed yeet, or what you wanted as an alternative.

it just felt like you didn't feel any urgency to defend him given he was at e-1 at the time and you were just kind of shrugging in terms of what would happen?

Also are you townreading me now? this is only scummy behavior for std if I am Town right

it's scummy if you're scum too

[Aristeia]

Aristeia can you explain what exactly you are feeling bad about more?

I'm used to koba/mathblade/norwee/dwlee/you posting more.

I'm not sure if the game state feels dead because we're wrong or because we're right - it just feels off.

[Aristeia]

I hope you get better soon mb !

[Aristeia]

I am a lot more comfortable reading fast game states with interactions and things going on

when games stall and nothing happens I just feel kind of lost ~__~

[Aristeia]

I think mass claiming makes a lot of sense

[Aristeia]

i am fairly sure the only reason i am alive is because scum want me to tunnel std

[Aristeia]

koba is a very strange kill to me

[Aristeia]

we should not be voting until after mass claim imo

[Aristeia]

Can any of the people against Mass Claim explain why they are against Mass Claim btw?

I think it makes sense to do it now because if we miss here we will be at Elo tomm and claims are not nearly as good when we have no room for error

having 2 dead VTs should reduce scum claim space

[Aristeia]

Well it depends.

If we have 2 claimed TPRs - they are probably both town and we are playing 2 scum in 5 VT claims. We lose a TPR at night but finding 2 scum in 5 is significantly easier imo. [2 in 4 if we have a TPR with an inno]

If there's a scum fake claim - we'd be at 1 in 3 and 1 in 4 - in that case scum can't really afford to shoot TPR at night without narrowing their own POE.

[Aristeia]

And if we have only one? Or a player lies? You’re assuming everyone is telling the truth.

we should not have only one TPR

town players should not lie.

[Aristeia]

what is the POE you want btw?

[Aristeia]

what is your POE?

[Aristeia]

I don't expect anyone at the table to fakeclaim as a townside player because that would be silly

[Aristeia]

what is your POE?

Everyone right now. The game is being ridiculous right now.

if your POE is everyone then clearly mass claim would help narrow down your POE

[Aristeia]

I don't think mass claim is tantamount to game throw

I believe it is pro town to mass claim and I don't understand your argument for why mass claiming is bad for the town.

[Aristeia]

claims are elo are much less useful because scum can fakeclaim guilties etc.

the day before elo is much better and we don't really have a good lead for someone who is very likely to flip as scum atp.

[Aristeia]

claims at elo are much less useful because scum can fakeclaim guilties etc.

the day before elo is much better and we don't really have a good lead for someone who is very likely to flip as scum atp.

fix'd "are" to "at" in first sentence typo

[Aristeia]

I don't understand what you mean

I believe mass claiming day b4 elo is almost always correct.

[Aristeia]

I don't see what the connection is between that and mass claiming the day b4 elo

[Aristeia]

why do you think I'm mafia?

[Aristeia]

how am I not following town me?

[Aristeia]

Assume we have 2 PRs (likely set up)

Then TPR 1 claims guilty on scum A
Then TPR 2 claims guilty on scum A or B

Scum then either bus A or guilty in TPR 1/2

Then elim is set and the people outside the conflict become conf

I don't understand this.

Are you talking about today or tommorrow?

[Aristeia]

how am I not following town me?

Because you’re not displaying emotion and are trying to be all “look at the shiny math”
You’re too robotic

I'm not always emotional.

in my only completed scum game I am very emotional so it's not actually alignment indicative for me.

[Aristeia]

Assume we have 2 PRs (likely set up)

Then TPR 1 claims guilty on scum A
Then TPR 2 claims guilty on scum A or B

Scum then either bus A or guilty in TPR 1/2

Then elim is set and the people outside the conflict become conf

I don't understand this.

Are you talking about today or tommorrow?

I am talking tomorrow.

Claiming today nets us no confs and just a group of PRs a scum can kill in.

It narrows the elim pool to VT claimants. But that doesn’t actually give us confs.

Mass claim doesn’t work unless everyone does it so it naturally does more harm than good.

if we only have 2 TPRs claimed that gives us 2 confs


if a TPR has an inno result that gives us 3 confs.

[Aristeia]

how am I not following town me?

Because you’re not displaying emotion and are trying to be all “look at the shiny math”
You’re too robotic

I'm not always emotional.

in my only completed scum game I am very emotional so it's not actually alignment indicative for me.

I haven’t seen you as anything other than loud and domineering and emotional.

Right now you’re being logical and patient which rings scummy to me.

I am trying to be nicer to you

[Aristeia]

If we have 2 TPRs with 2 innos they’d all instantly drop and it wouldn’t matter.

There wouldn’t be a push for a mass claim it’d be just done.

3 innos with 7 alive is a win.

I don't think it makes sense for the game to have 2 investigative TPRs

[Aristeia]

And I find it weird

People are usually not here

I don't enjoy being loud and domineering. I prefer being nicer. I just got out of a game that I was extremely loud and it was unpleasant for everyone involved.

[Aristeia]

so you are for mass claim if a TPR has an inno?

[Aristeia]

I am against mass claim fwiw

can you make a case why?

[Aristeia]

I have seen towns fail to mass claim and lose because of it.

I would rather not elim in the dark and be dealing with fake claims at elo

[Aristeia]

I don't share your confidence in NK15 being scum

[Aristeia]

that doesn't make him mafia

[Aristeia]

are you just mafia with mathblade : )

[Aristeia]

their confidence feels very off

[Aristeia]

that's irrelevant for reading NK15

[Aristeia]

Do you have an example of NK15 as mafia quickhammering a town player in a completed game?

[Aristeia]

you're the one who's trying to make the case he is doing it as mafia.

[Aristeia]

because you're trying to push an elim through on him

[Aristeia]

I will do the meta research since you are not interested

[Aristeia]

I found this game where NK15 quickhammers as town on D1 2 minutes after someone puts the player at E-1

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=82695&start=1200

I think it is a similar consensus type elim but Ginngie wanted to hammer for some reason that probably has to do with mech but I didn't read much into it.

[Aristeia]

rereading page 1

it would be really special if Ydra/Dwlee decided to play good cop bad cop with me for fun

<3

[Aristeia]

I think Rean feels like fairly scummy with how his explanation for not massclaiming here feels incredibly off - there's a lot of conviction but not a lot of logic and the logic simply doesn't make any sense to me.

[Aristeia]

but we don't actually know what the mech is so it's somewhat hard to make that determination to rely on dayplay.

also we haven't actually caught any scum on dayplay either.

[Aristeia]

i am fairly sure the only reason i am alive is because scum want me to tunnel std

What makes you think this?

because if STD was mafia I would be dead

[Aristeia]

it is the only scenario where the koba kill makes sense to me

[Aristeia]

the last game we played together

[Aristeia]

They are saying they were right about Cephrir last game we played together

[Aristeia]

I don't think it is relevant to this game.

[Aristeia]

I think start with Rean and popcorn is fine

[Aristeia]

that would be useful yes

but we should mass claim first starting with rean

[Aristeia]

or I guess if you are claiming TPR you can decide who goes first

[Aristeia]

The relevance of the Cephrir thing was that my confidence isn't weird because it's the same way I approached limming Cephrir. Nothing about me being right or not

Have you read many NK15 Scum!games? Which one do you think his play here is similar to?

[Aristeia]

I guess the principal reason I don't think quickhammering at the spot he did is incredibly scum!indicative is because the game state was somewhat exhausted at that point with Yeet being the leading wagon and multiple people calling for Yeet to be hammered;

for example:

Rean in 605

and

Koba in 620


Koba is particularly interesting to me because Koba was also nightkilled - I suspect because scum believe Koba to be loud, controlling and have generally good reads and a threat to them.

Now if the scum team believes Koba to be loud and thread dominant - I don't think the scum team would particularly worry that Koba would have trouble driving their preferred elimination(yeet) through.

It seems silly to need to rush the elim when Koba is hardpushing it for you.

The sequence where NK15 goes from voting for scum!STD in 642 to sheeping STD and hammering yeet in 646 is pretty disgusting.

It makes very little sense to think STD is scum and then 10 minutes later decide to sheep him and quickhammer someone he is voting.

It is an extremely bad look and it is difficult for anyone to believe that a town!player can play in such a fashion - which makes him a very convenient target if he is indeed town here.

However NK15 is notorious for being an intentional game thrower. I would much more expect such play from him when he is holding a town role PM - he fake claimed mason with a mafia player in a newbie game, he put a readlist with 3 scum teammates as his three scumreads for no reason on day 1 and told his teammates to "get gud".

I can very easily see NK15 deciding to troll us intentionally.

[Aristeia]

I know meta is generally trash but in extreme edge cases I don't think it makes sense to apply commonly expected play to people.

[Aristeia]

The relevance of the Cephrir thing was that my confidence isn't weird because it's the same way I approached limming Cephrir. Nothing about me being right or not

Have you read many NK15 Scum!games? Which one do you think his play here is similar to?

The one that is in my mind he got caught extremely early but I think it'd be silly to assume he is town just because he isn't playing as scummily.

But I kinda get your point + there's more etc.

I'm not assuming he is town.

I am just not confident he is scum and we can slam dunk him for an easy scum lim because he does not play rationally.

Like people like Cephrir I can be fairly sure of their alignment after engaging them over a few days - but NK15 is more like flipping a coin because his motivations feel random.

[Aristeia]

i am fine with eliminating rean if he refused to claim.


dwlee should know from achromatic game that this is exactly why you make rean claim first

[Aristeia]

scum in closed games are very scared of claiming

if rean is a vt he can just claim vt

the fact he is this upset heavily implies some kind of caught scum.

[Aristeia]

Shouldn't people without results claim first so people with results can call them out on their lies?

Nope

Once someone has claimed to have a result they claim what it is first.

Otherwise then Gamma can be lying and waiting for everyone to claim something then conveniently have a guilty or an inno.

this is a ridiculous take

[Aristeia]

I think rean is town (?) so can we just have rean pick someone else and continue this

why do you think rean is town

Based on my experience with mathblade, plus koba agreed I think? Lemme check

this is actually exactly how mathblade plays when he can't use actual logic to back up his claims and he's scum

[Aristeia]

here is mathblade iso from the game I played with him where he is trying to argue mech as scum:

viewtopic.php?t=87284&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

imo it is incredibly similar in terms of being unable to actually justify his stances

[Aristeia]

it is roughly starting around page 3 of his iso

[Aristeia]

logically speaking it make absolutely no sense for mathblade in this game to be worried about scum faking a guilty AND also want to delay mass claim to elo.

[Aristeia]

if we get fake guilty claimed here

either we bounce the scum and get a conftown

or worse case we go 1 for 1


at elo we r betting the game on a 50:50

[Aristeia]

it takes roughly 3 seconds for a town player to claim vt

it takes a lot of time for a scum player to figure out what lie they should make up because they dont know what kind of setup this is, what kind of guilty is on them and they dont know who they will end up in a 1v1 with.

mathblade is currently very heavily in part [2] for me.

[Aristeia]

if he refuses to claim i am fine with yeeting him with no mass claim but we should 100% start mass claim on him given his resistance which makes very little sense to me.

[Aristeia]

it is one thing for someone to say i am a pr with info i want to claim last

but mathblade has no excuse atp for stalling.

[Aristeia]

My result is not on Rean, no. I think we should massclaim anyway. Does anyone object to the order I suggested?

you weren't supposed to say this

[Aristeia]

if you are a tpr with an investigative result

you out the result after the mass claim and not before

letting people know you dont have a result on them allows people to get away with lies they wouldn't know they can make

[Aristeia]

im a VT

[Aristeia]

I have no idea if any of the “I am a PR” claims are valid because I can’t hold back anymore.

well if we only have 2 claimed TPRs then we get 2 free ICs and I'm not much bothered about that

[Aristeia]

There could be no PRs and it’s StD and Gamma (unlikely imho but possible)

yea I don't think we're playing 2-7 mountainous

[Aristeia]

gamma the whole point of mathblade being a dick to you is to get you to out your result

[Aristeia]

it is extremely anti-town

[Aristeia]

i think NK15 should claim next and Gamma should not out any more details about his "inno"

[Aristeia]

sorry I meant it in terms of being mean

[Aristeia]

I think massclaims should be done with the investigative tpr holding their results to reveal at the end because if the scum dont know who the result is on and what the result is about they are much more uncomfortable making things up.

I am extremely upset that Gamma revealed early and I do somewhat blame you for it.

if you don't like massclaiming, but we are still massclaiming anyway and you are VT, just claim VT.

We can discuss whether this was tactically a smart thing to do in the post game.

[Aristeia]

I’m not inclined to believe StD if my idea regarding Rean is correct btw

every post you make is giving away information so please just wait until after the mass claim is over before outting any more details about your investigation and what your result is.

[Aristeia]

You’re not even reading are you?

I am a VT and said so earlier.

I know you said you are VT

I just mean I would like you to stop provoking Gamma atp

we can talk about the mass claim after the cards are down.

[Aristeia]

would you have preferred we elim NK15 instead with Gamma not claiming his inno

[Aristeia]

who did you want again?

[Aristeia]

Ari - VT
Rean - VT
Norw - VT

Dwlee - ??
NK15 - ??

STD - PR
Gamma - PR

[Aristeia]

let's finish up

[Aristeia]

well everyone has claimed so let's hear what Gamma has to say about NK15 claiming VT

[Aristeia]

btw I have a mailman message to myself and we don't have a claimed mailman so I'm thinking the mailman is mafia.

[Aristeia]

you're adorable norweeb

[Aristeia]

awww

I was hoping you tracked NK15 to me and that would be a guilty instead >_>

disappointing

[Aristeia]

that is pretty funny

[Aristeia]

Datisi is probably laughing maniacally at me atp

[Aristeia]

I do confirm that STD is a FN

[Aristeia]

so 2 mafia in [Norwee, Rean, Dwlee]

I'm thinking just rean/dwlee

[Aristeia]

hitting not the FN with the TA is pretty lucky along with only 2 VTs dying

[Aristeia]

this is probably perfect storm in terms of how badly the night actions could've played out for the scum team

[Aristeia]

im a FN / mailman

i may have misread that my mailman message was anonymous

but i'm also a FN

I do like how you decided to say absolutely nothing useful in your mailman message to me and I thought it was someone trying to frame NK15 as a scum mailman by making the message intentionally useless and trolly but now I realize you were just doing some badly written rap music.

you are adorable fen

[Aristeia]

I'm so town I'm glowing

[Aristeia]

so why aren't you voting for and pushing Norwee?

[Aristeia]

logically if you think me/rean contains 1 scum that would mean Norwee is confscum to you no?

It feels like you are not actually following through on your thoughts.

[Aristeia]

weird excuse

[Aristeia]

I want to see what other people say before I really get going. I need things to click. I need to eventually review things like Ari/Rean interactions. We have time. I'm not going to immediately call for Norwee's head without being more sure of it. I literally said this and the way you're painting this as an excuse and not just y'know a reasonable thing to do makes me think you're scum

I mean you were fine with voting NK15 when we had much less info.

Now you seem to be more hesitant.

[Aristeia]

I would be so mad if that was the setup but I highly doubt the NRG would pass a single mafia + traitor against a TA because that's pretty close to bastard modding.

[Aristeia]

Yea I felt pretty confident in my answer despite it being wrong and now you're mad I'm less confident immediately reacting to this new info...

I am not mad. I said I found your reaction suspicious.

[Aristeia]

yes

[Aristeia]

~ this is a normal game.

[Aristeia]

As in like your posts imply I'm doing something bad as town idk

no my implication is that you're mafia because if you were town you would've been voting for Norwee.

[Aristeia]

also I have a hard time believing you actually think Norwee/Ari is a viable solution given that my scum game is based mostly on naked aggression and it would've been trivial for me to get Norwee onboard with yeeting NK15 immediately at daystart when you/rean piled onto him and tommorrow we just crush you at elo.

[Aristeia]

Yea I felt pretty confident in my answer despite it being wrong and now you're mad I'm less confident immediately reacting to this new info...

I am not mad. I said I found your reaction suspicious.

It makes sense Dwlee would change his tune tho?

at day start Dwlee didn't know anything about the setup or have a concrete poe yet they were fine with putting the 2nd vote on NK15 because NK15 quickhammered the day before.

Now we do know there is a POE4 with 3 confirmed townies so they are dealing with looking for 2 scum in a group of three.

Their logic is that me/rean are unaligned because we clashed fairly heavily over whether to mass claim etc. the conclusion of that logic would be that Norwee is scum because if there's 1 scum in me/rean then the partner is norwee which they stated.

but they don't put a vote on Norwee - they instead hedge it back by saying it could be that Ari is bussing Rean. Basically they say almost nothing at all.

I don't think there's really a need to hesitate because it's not like Norwee is really in danger of being yeeted as noone is voting for him.

[Aristeia]

also I have a hard time believing you actually think Norwee/Ari is a viable solution given that my scum game is based mostly on naked aggression and it would've been trivial for me to get Norwee onboard with yeeting NK15 immediately at daystart when you/rean piled onto him and tommorrow we just crush you at elo.

I think the remainder of me/StD see through that ploy

I can shoot STD at night and you aren't conftown at Elo.

The only reason you are conftown now is because we forced massclaim through on D2.

If we just blitz the vote there are not conftowns.

[Aristeia]

I am talking about if Dwlee!town thinks Ari/Norwee are scum together

[Aristeia]

RCE didn't rep out of the potions game?

he just decided to stop playing.

[Aristeia]

This game makes more sense if NK15 is scum tbh

except he has an inno result on him

[Aristeia]

Especially when he was all "I had a reason to hammer!" which y'know heavily implies being a PR but then is VT? And his analysis of my ISO is "what's even townie in here" when he joined the game and immediately quickhammered someone

his play is surface level very anti-town but that doesn't mean his alignment is mafia.

[Aristeia]

There was that Datisi game where he put a Gunsmith with 3 Mafia Doctors and the Gunsmith could only get gun checks off on TPRs

but like that's a very sad timeline and I would be moderately upset if he decided to run that again

[Aristeia]

I have trouble seeing the NRG passing a game with Mafia Goon + Mafia Traitor versus TA + FN/Mailman

[Aristeia]

Yes but it's kind of absurd if you think about it

most of NK15's meta is absurdity so it is expected atp from him

[Aristeia]

it feels to me like you are scum who is frustrated you can't get an elim off on this blatantly scummy townie.

[Aristeia]

my vote is spiritually on Rean but I want to give STD the chance to say whatever is on his mind before we go to night

[Aristeia]

it feels to me like you are scum who is frustrated you can't get an elim off on this blatantly scummy townie.

I'd probably post about it in my scum PT instead of openly just talking about how weird NK has played

sometimes people like to vent in the thread

[Aristeia]

I do agree Rean appears to be anti-spewing but that still leaves who is his partner.

have you tried looking in the mirror

[Aristeia]

well ok

VOTE: Rean

[Aristeia]

I'm still giggling at the mail you sent me

You would find it really funny that I spent quite a bit of time trying to figure out who would send me that message hehe

[Aristeia]

how does Rean!Town clear you again?

[Aristeia]

like what has rean even done that is town indicative?

Day 1: parked on Yeet encouraged his elim

Day 2: tried to force through NK15!town elim

opposed mass claim with weird logic that doesn't really make sense.

after mass claim he gives up and says he's fine being elimmed.

I am not even sure what you are town reading.

[Aristeia]

how does Rean!Town clear you again?

If I'm scum I literally have to have town!Rean limmed to win but I'm opposing it right now

by that logic I should be town for opposing you on NK15 being limmed.


also if you're scum and Rean is town and everyone who is town thinks Rean is scum, your opposition doesn't really mean much? Whether you oppose it or not, Rean is getting eliminated.

[Aristeia]

like what has rean even done that is town indicative?

Day 1: parked on Yeet encouraged his elim

Day 2: tried to force through NK15!town elim

opposed mass claim with weird logic that doesn't really make sense.

after mass claim he gives up and says he's fine being elimmed.

I am not even sure what you are town reading.

I'm not townreading the play I'm townreading the associatives with the slot

can you explain the associatives?

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE: Rean

Dwlee's "I should be conftown when Rean flips town" feels kind of gross to me rn

[Aristeia]

But you didn't have to get NK limmed when you opposed it to win. That was before mass claim. And sure I could be letting town eat itself but then do you think Norwee is my partner?

It makes more sense for scum to be pushing the lim thru before mass claim because if you lim town at F7 you can counterclaim in mass claim and maybe win outright

now scum are forced to play in a narrow POE and town just has to pick one correct townie to win.

I don't know but it feels weird as fuck that you're trying to say if Rean is town then I am conftown like what? That's not how the game works?

If anything you look super weird for somehow knowing rean is town when nobody else thinks he is town?

[Aristeia]

Norwee: Gleefully wants me then Rean eliminated. He doesn't win a 1v1 against you so this makes no sense from norwee/rean partner.

What options does Norwee/Rean team have exactly.

If Rean gives up and thinks game is imbalanced and tells Norwee to bus him in the PT why wouldn't Norwee try to get as much bus cred as possible?

This analysis is very surface level.

Scum do not make decisions in game states based on what they think they can win - they make the decision based on which decision gives them the best odds of winning.

Let's say the scum!team is Norwee/Rean - what do you think that team does instead of what is happening now?

[Aristeia]

He plays off my defense of Rean and tries to pivot to you?

so you're saying that Norwee who can't win a 1v1 against me at 3p

would rather try to engage me here at 7p where winning the 1v1 doesn't even give him a game win and 3 conftowns are alive and 2 of them townread me?

[Aristeia]

it just feels like your beliefs are very made up on the spot rather than actually thought through.