Micro 1053: DmangwGBiaf [game over]

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: SaveThe Dragons
Sheeping aristeia+ this:

this is an example of why meta is trash

i feel like norwee gets a little sharper while scum and is a lot more looseygoosey when town and i'm just not believing what he's trying to sell

i feel like town rean would be more solvey by now and i feel like his push on yeet and bugspray just feels lazy and manufactured.

Did you just call meta trash and then proceed to use meta reads to justify these two ppl?

Why is Aristeia’s meta on you wrong?

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: Yeet
Hammer.

[Not Known 15]

It's a micro, and two VT's have died till day 2. You all know what this means...

Massclaim time!

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK15

Wtf was that hammer?

And what do you mean StD?

And let’s just go with nope on mass claim.

That hammer was just alright. Yeet had decent chances to be scum. And very slim chances of being a powerful PR.
And yes, massclaim. In case you overlooked it - this day is the day before EXLO. Massclaiming now means that, in case of contradictions, we can definitely get one scum yeeted, and then follow the associatives.

[Not Known 15]

VOTE: NK 15

E-2.

Put the brakes on until everyone has posted... and I have posted once more. Do you want to miss night results or what?

[Not Known 15]

I don’t really think mass claim is a good idea.

Explain.

[Not Known 15]

mass claim seems weird now

Wrong. It is the day before EXLO. Two VT's have died. That's exactly why a massclaim needs to happen.

[Not Known 15]

Do you have an example of NK15 as mafia quickhammering a town player in a completed game?

You will find both.

Because I do it as town, occasionally... I obviously did it as scum as well.
I had my reasons to yeet yeet, yet I am more comfortable telling you why after the massclaim.
Now, a massclaim needs to happen right now. If we are trying to yeet scum then scum will likely fakeclaim PR at this point anyways(to rat out the real PR's, or to survive). If scum doesn't claim PR then there's still a chance for PR dying at night. The chances to hit scum who claims VT and then scum to hit a VT are pretty slim.

[Not Known 15]

A mass claim today is for people who don’t want to think or analyze the game and I for one am not lazy.

Yee. Dayplay -> mechanics.

It's not that simple.
What you are saying isn't Dayplay -> mechanics at all.
You are saying Dayplay,

mechanics

. And that's lazy. Mechanics is just another tool. Yes, mechanics without dayplay is bad. But dayplay without mechanics isn't good either. Mechanics + dayplay is the way to go.

[Not Known 15]

That said i'm not sure i want STD today.
I'm kinda sus on Dwlee.

Why?

[Not Known 15]

7.Not Known 15
5/6.Gamma Emerald/Aristeia
4.NorwegianboyEE
3.Dwlee99
2.Save The Dragons
1.Instructor Rean
This is the order of massclaim I'd support, starting with 1.
What's your order?

[Not Known 15]

I think start with Rean and popcorn is fine

We probably should do two rounds. One round for claiming PR/VT, a second round for all PR's.

[Not Known 15]

Massclaim, round 1

Not Known 15

Aristeia

NorwegianboyEE

Save The Dragons

Dwlee99

Instructor Rean

Gamma Emerald - PR with a result

Round 1:Please claim PR/VT.
Round 2:Normal PR's fullclaim.
Round 3:PR's with a result fullclaim.

Gamma, who do you popcorn to?

[Not Known 15]

It makes very little sense to think STD is scum and then 10 minutes later decide to sheep him and quickhammer someone he is voting.

It may look like that. However, that's actually wrong. More about this after the massclaim.

[Not Known 15]

You're not supposed to imply anything before you claim especially since you're trying to be last so bad

I am not.
I simply stated my preference. Who wouldn't want to go last?

[Not Known 15]

Massclaim, round 1

Not Known 15

Aristeia

NorwegianboyEE

Save The Dragons

Dwlee99

Instructor Rean

Gamma Emerald - PR with a result

Round 1:Please claim PR/VT.
Round 2:Normal PR's fullclaim.
Round 3:PR's with a result fullclaim.

Next claim - Instructor Rean

[Not Known 15]

Massclaim, round 1

Not Known 15

Aristeia

NorwegianboyEE

Save The Dragons

Dwlee99

Instructor Rean

Gamma Emerald - PR with a result

Round 1:Please claim PR/VT.
Round 2:Normal PR's fullclaim.
Round 3:PR's with a result fullclaim.

Gamma, who do you popcorn to?

I popcorn to rean

Lmao that’s not how that works at all.

VOTE: Inspector Rean
Yes that's how it works.
Claim VT/PR,

now

.

[Not Known 15]

If he claims a guilty then worst case we go one for one

[Not Known 15]

That's also exactly

why

we claim now.

[Not Known 15]

If you miselim me then we win by not having mass claim improperly.

How is putting the game at 2v3 ELO AND potentially losing a result in any way, shape or form PRO-TOWN? Because that's what will happen if you are town.

[Not Known 15]

If you don’t and Gamma claims their result then we limit damage to the game.

This assumes Gamma is scum.

[Not Known 15]

If you don’t and Gamma claims their result then we limit damage to the game.

This assumes Gamma is scum.

No? It doesn’t.

If Gamma is town then
If I am VT then other PR (if it exists remains hidden)
If I am PR then Gamma should have outed and Gamma has to explain themselves

If Gamma is scum then
If I am VT sus gets rightly put on him
If I am PR then Gamma is rolefishing

I gotta go but Gamma finishes his claim

Gamma has NOT claimed a result on YOU.

[Not Known 15]

If you don’t and Gamma claims their result then we limit damage to the game.

This assumes Gamma is scum.

No? It doesn’t.

If Gamma is town then
If I am VT then other PR (if it exists remains hidden)
If I am PR then Gamma should have outed and Gamma has to explain themselves

If Gamma is scum then
If I am VT sus gets rightly put on him
If I am PR then Gamma is rolefishing

I gotta go but Gamma finishes his claim

What exactly do you mean with

rolefishing

?

[Not Known 15]

I think rean is town (?) so can we just have rean pick someone else and continue this

I think rean could be scum afraid of claiming. So no. Unless you townread rean so much that you want to sub in for Rean as a claimant.

[Not Known 15]

I just want to actually get to playing the game

We are currently playing the game. I want to finish with the massclaim so that we can actually examine the situation. But the massclaim needs to be finished. Properly.

Why do you think that Rean's reaction is towny?

[Not Known 15]

We aren't playing the game. We're mass claiming. And you're not even supposed to interrupt the mass claim unless there's a hard conflict in claims

The mass claim has been interrupted. By Rean. How about you just vote Rean so that we can move on(by E-1 and threat of hammer)?

[Not Known 15]

Cause I don't want them limmed lmao what

That's how a massclaim works.
Everyone has to claim, whoever refuses gets to E-1 and has to claim under threat of hammer.

[Not Known 15]

Ryan is at E-2

[Not Known 15]

They seem a bit panicky tbh.

Almost as if they think that there's a guilty on them and they are afraid of claiming in the dark, without much info... potentially dooming their slot by fakeclaim... which is

exactly

what I envisioned when coming up with this multiple - round massclaim.

[Not Known 15]

if he refuses to claim i am fine with yeeting him with no mass claim but we should 100% start mass claim on him given his resistance which makes very little sense to me.

We need Gamma to claim, though, IF Gamma has info on someone else. Gamma might not survive tonight after all.

Do not put Ryan to E-1 before Gamma has responded.

UNVOTE:
Ryan is at E-3.

[Not Known 15]

Aristeia, Norwee, and StD claim in any order. Then NK 15, then Rean/Dwlee.

STD, Norwee, aristeia, myself, Dwlee?

[Not Known 15]

Massclaim, round 1

Not Known 15

Aristeia - VT

NorwegianboyEE

Save The Dragons - PR

Dwlee99

Instructor Rean - Refuses to claim

Gamma Emerald - PR with a result

Round 1:Please claim PR/VT.
Round 2:Normal PR's fullclaim.
Round 3:PR's with a result fullclaim.

Next claim - NorwegianboyEE

[Not Known 15]

The only reason I haven’t been as hyper as usual is I have been working a shit ton of OT and IRL.

You disagree with how I play, fine.

I get that, but we just did the wrong play after two mis flips maybe the ones who have been not in charge are town.

One misflip. On day 1. For scum, though, it is two misflips in a sense... that none of them were PR's.

[Not Known 15]

Massclaim, round 1

Not Known 15

Aristeia - VT

NorwegianboyEE

Save The Dragons - PR

Dwlee99

Instructor Rean - VT

Gamma Emerald - PR with a result

Round 1:Please claim PR/VT.
Round 2:Normal PR's fullclaim.
Round 3:PR's with a result fullclaim.

Next claim - NorwegianboyEE

[/quote]

[Not Known 15]

I’m not inclined to believe StD if my idea regarding Rean is correct btw

How about we finish the massclaim,

then

deliberate about what means what?

[Not Known 15]

Ari - VT
Rean - VT
Norw - VT

Dwlee - ??
NK15 - ??

STD - PR
Gamma - PR with an inno on myself

I know that I was supposed to be next, but with the inno it should be Dwlee next instead.

[Not Known 15]

Ari - VT
Rean - VT
Norw - VT
Dwlee - VT
NK15 - VT
STD - PR
Gamma - PR with an inno on myself

[Not Known 15]

Yes. With this framework the claims are very obviously town.
BTW: I did think that STD was a PR, or scum.

Ok. We have 5 confirmed town. Koopa(dead), Yeet(dead), myself, Gamma, STD.
We have 4 unconfirmed people. 2 of them are scum.
We have one misyeet.
Which means we need to find one town in these four(Aristeia, NorwegianboyEE, Rean, Dwlee).

[Not Known 15]

Can someone tell me why Dwlee is supposed to be town?

[Not Known 15]

NorwegianboyEE
Save The Dragons
Gamma Emerald
Dwlee99
Aristeia
Instructor Rean
bugspray
Yeet

Their last list.

[Not Known 15]

If we exclude NorwegianboyEE+Dwlee99 and NorwegianboyEE+Aristeia...
then Rean is either scum or town with Ari and Dwlee scum.

[Not Known 15]

I think ari looks town here though.
Common link is very clearly Rean.

[Not Known 15]

Although koopa could also have been killed to preserve that top town spot on the list, hmm....

[Not Known 15]

My solve is Rean/Ari unaligned with Norwee being their second but I should probably consider the Ari bussing angle harder

Now please actually explain this solve in detail.

[Not Known 15]

My solve is Rean/Ari unaligned with Norwee being their second but I should probably consider the Ari bussing angle harder

Now please actually explain this solve in detail.

The same for everyone else in the POE... give us solves, in detail.

No need to rush this lim. We are still at 50% EV. That's not that great...

[Not Known 15]

I'm town

2 of Norwee/Ari/Rean have to be scum cause everyone else is town

Ari and Rean seem unaligned

In detail means reasoning. All of it. For your reads. Every single acceptable piece of reasons for Ari/rean being unaligned to you.

[Not Known 15]

Unless have a weird “groupscum” + traitor setup my result is a hard inno

That would mean 1 town PR with 1 false guilty and 2 false clears. Plus the false guilty, a mailman FN. And 5 VT's. Not Normal. Ever.

[Not Known 15]

Ok I reviewed Dwlee99....
Look at their ISO. Do you see anything towny?

[Not Known 15]

there were only 2 innos
plus there was a potential to put shade on me that wasn't taken

There were three

TA, NK15, FN

Can’t shade NK15 because have to shade TA saying lying or traitor. Traitor in a micro isn’t possible in a normal unless elo which wasn’t possible

TA can’t shade because unprompted claim
FN is mechanically confirmed due to role

3 innos unassaible

3 innos Day 2 (7 players) with 2 scum is 50% EV though. Not impossible. Difficult because you need both town to get yeeted. And getting aristeia conftowned... that was you fighting against massclaim.

[Not Known 15]

Maybe they feared the "why am I alive" from you.
Would you have supported the massclaim?

[Not Known 15]

Don’t get me wrong, I made mistakes but three innos in a micro is too much.

No.
There were not three innos. There were two. Gamma was only an inno because none of you claimed anything but VT. THAT turned gamma into an inno.
And even then - 7p with 3 innos and 2 scum has 50% EV. One of you needed to be townier than all the town that were left though. A task that was failed when you fought against the massclaim.

You made the following errors:
1.You didn't kill an obvious PR in a micro. That's almost always a mistake in a micro when a VT goes down Day 1.
2.You killed a townie whose reads were great - for scum.
3.You misjudged the will of the town and the strength of your arguments when you decided to fight against a massclaim.
Making all of these errors in one game was fatal.

[Not Known 15]

Admittedly yes I made mistakes but if you’re forced to kill a PR on N1 and the Pr only posts “I am Swiss cheese and there’s likely two scum”

Then scum not killing that player results in scum losing is bad.

In micros, you have to treat every PR as an IC until proven otherwise.
Micros are just not big games. PR's matter. In minis and Larges you can afford to let PR's live. In a Micro, you can not.

[Not Known 15]

And then town just doesn’t post until D2 and no elims and wins.

D2 was winnable until you pushed against massclaim the way you did.

[Not Known 15]

And that’s imho a fundamental flaw in the setup design.

A Normal micro works like this, Math. Powerful PR's in a micro are IC's or 1v1 or 2v1 material.

[Not Known 15]

If you “help” scum by killing a random player ( > likely VT) on no elim it becomes worse.
Greater than rand VT kill


D2 becomes 2 scum 2 PR (ICs) versus 3 VTs.
Elim a VT
Then 2 scum 1 PR 2 VTs elo

PR/IC exists so you don’t miselim. So PR decides who dies and whether town wins or loses.

With 2 PRs there’s 0 incentive to collaborate and every incentive to just no elim, mass claim D2

You overlook something.
1. PR dies Night 1. You lost one lim, are in the evens, and have no info from day 1. Ouch! The chance to find a PR amongst 6 townies is 33% if you kill randomly!
2. You lim a PR. Also, see above. Ouch!
3. You lim a VT, but you have no dayplay info Day 2. If you have just two Masons, for example, then town needs two other obvtown to win. Without much info Day 1.
4. If you no elim or lim a VT you (unless kills get blocked) have only ONE mislim. And 3 VT's. That's still decent.