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In post 617, Save The Dragons wrote:i feel like norwee gets a little sharper while scum and is a lot more looseygoosey when town and i'm just not believing what he's trying to sell
i feel like town rean would be more solvey by now and i feel like his push on yeet and bugspray just feels lazy and manufactured.
Did you just call meta trash and then proceed to use meta reads to justify these two ppl?
That hammer was just alright. Yeet had decent chances to be scum. And very slim chances of being a powerful PR.
And yes, massclaim. In case you overlooked it - this day is the day before EXLO. Massclaiming now means that, in case of contradictions, we can definitely get one scum yeeted, and then follow the associatives.
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Post #761 (isolation #7) » Sun May 01, 2022 10:32 pm
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 748, Aristeia wrote:Do you have an example of NK15 as mafia quickhammering a town player in a completed game?
You will find both.
Because I do it as town, occasionally... I obviously did it as scum as well.
I had my reasons to yeet yeet, yet I am more comfortable telling you why after the massclaim.
Now, a massclaim needs to happen right now. If we are trying to yeet scum then scum will likely fakeclaim PR at this point anyways(to rat out the real PR's, or to survive). If scum doesn't claim PR then there's still a chance for PR dying at night. The chances to hit scum who claims VT and then scum to hit a VT are pretty slim.
In post 715, Instructor Rean wrote:A mass claim today is for people who don’t want to think or analyze the game and I for one am not lazy.
Yee. Dayplay -> mechanics.
It's not that simple.
What you are saying isn't Dayplay -> mechanics at all.
You are saying Dayplay,
mechanics
. And that's lazy. Mechanics is just another tool. Yes, mechanics without dayplay is bad. But dayplay without mechanics isn't good either. Mechanics + dayplay is the way to go.
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Post #779 (isolation #10) » Mon May 02, 2022 12:10 am
Postby Not Known 15 »
7.Not Known 15
5/6.Gamma Emerald/Aristeia
4.NorwegianboyEE
3.Dwlee99
2.Save The Dragons
1.Instructor Rean
This is the order of massclaim I'd support, starting with 1.
What's your order?
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Post #791 (isolation #13) » Mon May 02, 2022 2:04 am
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 788, Aristeia wrote:It makes very little sense to think STD is scum and then 10 minutes later decide to sheep him and quickhammer someone he is voting.
It may look like that. However, that's actually wrong. More about this after the massclaim.
How is putting the game at 2v3 ELO AND potentially losing a result in any way, shape or form PRO-TOWN? Because that's what will happen if you are town.
In post 811, Instructor Rean wrote:If you don’t and Gamma claims their result then we limit damage to the game.
This assumes Gamma is scum.
No? It doesn’t.
If Gamma is town then
If I am VT then other PR (if it exists remains hidden)
If I am PR then Gamma should have outed and Gamma has to explain themselves
If Gamma is scum then
If I am VT sus gets rightly put on him
If I am PR then Gamma is rolefishing
In post 811, Instructor Rean wrote:If you don’t and Gamma claims their result then we limit damage to the game.
This assumes Gamma is scum.
No? It doesn’t.
If Gamma is town then
If I am VT then other PR (if it exists remains hidden)
If I am PR then Gamma should have outed and Gamma has to explain themselves
If Gamma is scum then
If I am VT sus gets rightly put on him
If I am PR then Gamma is rolefishing
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Post #821 (isolation #24) » Mon May 02, 2022 4:13 am
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 820, Dwlee99 wrote:I just want to actually get to playing the game
We are currently playing the game. I want to finish with the massclaim so that we can actually examine the situation. But the massclaim needs to be finished. Properly.
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Post #823 (isolation #25) » Mon May 02, 2022 4:16 am
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 822, Dwlee99 wrote:We aren't playing the game. We're mass claiming. And you're not even supposed to interrupt the mass claim unless there's a hard conflict in claims
The mass claim has been interrupted. By Rean. How about you just vote Rean so that we can move on(by E-1 and threat of hammer)?
Almost as if they think that there's a guilty on them and they are afraid of claiming in the dark, without much info... potentially dooming their slot by fakeclaim... which is
exactly
what I envisioned when coming up with this multiple - round massclaim.
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Post #859 (isolation #29) » Mon May 02, 2022 8:16 am
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 856, Aristeia wrote:if he refuses to claim i am fine with yeeting him with no mass claim but we should 100% start mass claim on him given his resistance which makes very little sense to me.
We need Gamma to claim, though, IF Gamma has info on someone else. Gamma might not survive tonight after all.
Do not put Ryan to E-1 before Gamma has responded.
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Post #950 (isolation #37) » Mon May 02, 2022 12:30 pm
Postby Not Known 15 »
Yes. With this framework the claims are very obviously town.
BTW: I did think that STD was a PR, or scum.
Ok. We have 5 confirmed town. Koopa(dead), Yeet(dead), myself, Gamma, STD.
We have 4 unconfirmed people. 2 of them are scum.
We have one misyeet.
Which means we need to find one town in these four(Aristeia, NorwegianboyEE, Rean, Dwlee).
In post 1115, Gamma Emerald wrote:there were only 2 innos
plus there was a potential to put shade on me that wasn't taken
There were three
TA, NK15, FN
Can’t shade NK15 because have to shade TA saying lying or traitor. Traitor in a micro isn’t possible in a normal unless elo which wasn’t possible
TA can’t shade because unprompted claim
FN is mechanically confirmed due to role
3 innos unassaible
3 innos Day 2 (7 players) with 2 scum is 50% EV though. Not impossible. Difficult because you need both town to get yeeted. And getting aristeia conftowned... that was you fighting against massclaim.
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Post #1132 (isolation #50) » Fri May 06, 2022 9:59 am
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 1128, MathBlade wrote:Don’t get me wrong, I made mistakes but three innos in a micro is too much.
No.
There were not three innos. There were two. Gamma was only an inno because none of you claimed anything but VT. THAT turned gamma into an inno.
And even then - 7p with 3 innos and 2 scum has 50% EV. One of you needed to be townier than all the town that were left though. A task that was failed when you fought against the massclaim.
You made the following errors:
1.You didn't kill an obvious PR in a micro. That's almost always a mistake in a micro when a VT goes down Day 1.
2.You killed a townie whose reads were great - for scum.
3.You misjudged the will of the town and the strength of your arguments when you decided to fight against a massclaim.
Making all of these errors in one game was fatal.
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Post #1138 (isolation #51) » Fri May 06, 2022 10:36 am
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 1136, MathBlade wrote:Admittedly yes I made mistakes but if you’re forced to kill a PR on N1 and the Pr only posts “I am Swiss cheese and there’s likely two scum”
Then scum not killing that player results in scum losing is bad.
In micros, you have to treat every PR as an IC until proven otherwise.
Micros are just not big games. PR's matter. In minis and Larges you can afford to let PR's live. In a Micro, you can not.
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Post #1150 (isolation #54) » Fri May 06, 2022 12:41 pm
Postby Not Known 15 »
In post 1148, MathBlade wrote:If you “help” scum by killing a random player ( > likely VT) on no elim it becomes worse.
Greater than rand VT kill
D2 becomes 2 scum 2 PR (ICs) versus 3 VTs.
Elim a VT
Then 2 scum 1 PR 2 VTs elo
PR/IC exists so you don’t miselim. So PR decides who dies and whether town wins or loses.
With 2 PRs there’s 0 incentive to collaborate and every incentive to just no elim, mass claim D2
You overlook something.
1. PR dies Night 1. You lost one lim, are in the evens, and have no info from day 1. Ouch! The chance to find a PR amongst 6 townies is 33% if you kill randomly!
2. You lim a PR. Also, see above. Ouch!
3. You lim a VT, but you have no dayplay info Day 2. If you have just two Masons, for example, then town needs two other obvtown to win. Without much info Day 1.
4. If you no elim or lim a VT you (unless kills get blocked) have only ONE mislim. And 3 VT's. That's still decent.