Micro 1054 || Fuzzy Friends Coalition || Game Over!

[Save The Dragons]

whoa

[Save The Dragons]

HEAL: fireisredsir

[Save The Dragons]

i dunno if i can but i'll try

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: datisi

HEAL: Save the Dragons
HEAL: fireisreadsir
HEAL: skitter30

[Save The Dragons]

i think my vote and my heals sum it up just nicely

[Save The Dragons]

it just feels like you're overexplainy in a way that looks bad, i dunno. i also didn't like 37 it feels robotic almost like "beep boop i am town. i form a coalition. join me or die beep boop" i dunno i just didn't buy it

fire seems genuine so far and skitter seems to be actually solving even though there's still little to go on

[Save The Dragons]

it just feels like you're overexplainy in a way that looks bad, i dunno. i also didn't like 37 it feels robotic almost like "beep boop i am town. i form a coalition. join me or die beep boop" i dunno i just didn't buy it

fire seems genuine so far and skitter seems to be actually solving even though there's still little to go on

"join me or die" feels really uncharitable compared to what i actually said but okay

that's fair

[Save The Dragons]

HEAL: save the dragons
HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: skitter30
HEAL: irrelephant11

[Save The Dragons]

one more baby

[Save The Dragons]

nah i need more

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why malakittens

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no

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VOTE: menalque

[Save The Dragons]

145 146 feel performative and i think datisi is right there's not really a reason to town read you based on your entrance, i don't think even you believe there is

[Save The Dragons]

almost but not quite

[Save The Dragons]

point out where in 146 you said you didn't believe you should be townread for your actions so far

[Save The Dragons]

i mean maybe i'm misunderstanding something here

[Save The Dragons]

there might be a hole in my head where this all makes sense to someone else but not to me because there's a hole in my head

[Save The Dragons]

HEAL: save the dragons
HEAL: aristeia
HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: irrelephant11
HEAL: skitter30

my work here is done

[Save The Dragons]

ill convince you

i'll convince skitter

[Save The Dragons]

i meant it jovially

why are you suspecting fire?

[Save The Dragons]

i have a gut feeling he's town

did i convince you

[Save The Dragons]

i see what you mean i do agree it's kind of weird fire didn't just do the idea

but i like the tone of their posts

i think they have been putting forth some effort but yeah i wouldn't mind seeing where their head is at more

[Save The Dragons]

you've convinced me maybe i need to wait for more but i'm not sure that you're not being a little hard on him

HEAL: Save the dragons
HEAL: aristeia
HEAL: irrelephant11
HEAL: skitter30
HURT: fireisredsir

[Save The Dragons]

i feel it in my soul

try an antacid

[Save The Dragons]

why nk15 why mala

[Save The Dragons]

did you try an antacid

[Save The Dragons]

songs only come to me when the muse strikes

[Save The Dragons]

UNVOTE:

i'd probably add menalque to my coalition at this point. i don't agree with the point about skitter/ari being dangerous to add to a coalition but i like what they've said otherwise

[Save The Dragons]

incidentally, my strategic principle going into this is that skitter/ari probably shouldn't be in the coalition unless there's a real dearth of towniness from other slots as they're the players I think it's hardest to catch on D1 if scum

i don't agree with this post, if they're townie they'll be townie. i believe in my ability to tr people and am not worried if they're scum because i believe in my ability to scum read them.

i just don't hold people to higher/lower standard. anyone can surprise you

[Save The Dragons]

menalque gth who would you coalition?

[Save The Dragons]

do you think that some people are stronger scum players than others?

some people might have better records but i don't really care about other people's i care more about how i'm doing

[Save The Dragons]

HEAL: save the dragons
HEAL: skitter30
HEAL: aristeia
HEAL: menalque
HEAL: irrelephant

my work here is done*

*second try

[Save The Dragons]

do you think that some people are stronger scum players than others?

some people might have better records but i don't really care about other people's i care more about how i'm doing

I'm just trying to get my head round your stance on not being warier of certain people

I'm not in favour of complacency, but let's say you have player X who is well-known for being very good as scum and as town

and player Y who is well-known for seeming towny when town but having a terrible scumgame

let's say both players had identical (towny) ISOs

would you feel equally confident calling them both town?

yeah probably if they were both townie according to me

[Save The Dragons]

i didn't like save the dragons's read on mena on pages 7/8, it felt more like trying to find something Weird to attack rather than actually having a read on something that makes someone scum

i think the "seeming performative" part got lost in favor of the "i don't get what 146 was trying to say" part

but i've changed my mind obv

[Save The Dragons]

std - backpedalling is a thing that exists but alright sure

[Save The Dragons]

ping

fire what's your tell on datisi if he says ping

[Save The Dragons]

Try an antacid

[Save The Dragons]

why

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at first i got pings from datisi in the scum direction but now i'm getting pings in the town direction

pedit: oh no, i'm townreading fire now???

so i'm left with me/mena/skitt/ari and one of std or irrel? bleh maybe they're both town and i'm not giving enough credit to The Vibes but also time is short

just having an openness seems to come from a town mindset of trying to solve, he's not being stubborn in his reads. i dunno. it's very pingy. my friend's brother had a penguin stuffed animal named ping-ping once. i'm trying to get fire to tr me correctly by saying ping a lot. is it working? ping.

i also liked his posts on me, ari, and irrelephant, i think they're well thought out. I'd probably be okay with datisi in my coalition.

i'm just vibing with irrelephant here, content seems very stream of conciousnessy in a way that scum would avoid for fear of revealing too much.

Sorry i'm in the office today so i'll respond later / be around sporadically

my boss is in the office today...are you my boss?

Which kinda makes me think i have to include one of ari/dats

i dunno why but i really like this

NK15 - I liked his thought about me being off balance because I am mafia with Datisi, I liked the singleminded focus on pushing that worldview - it feels like something he genuinely believes.

nk15 - so i guess on surface i kinda agree with you, but then when i think about it more, i wonder: wow, there really isn't a ton of nuance here, and he's very dogged abt this opinion, and doesn't really seem to be revisiting it much, so now i'm less ure

especially considering skitter doesn't quite buy into the theory that they're scum v scum (i'm guessing from this post) but is still a little suspicious? she's willing to challenge nk15's static read despite having a similar theory. i dunno i just like it. ping

[Save The Dragons]

literally just copying irrelephant's tags here

HURT: all
HEAL: menalque
save the dragons
datisi
aristeia
irrelephant

i could do skitter in place of someone tho i might prefer that but this seems fine for now

[Save The Dragons]

ping

[Save The Dragons]

Aristeia is still scum with Datisi. I have nothing to add.

you said no std no mala can you clarify why if you're so sure it's ari/datisi

[Save The Dragons]

I would love to know why StD is town

do you think i'm not town

[Save The Dragons]

if nk15 is town i'd love a re-eval of the one read made all game

[Save The Dragons]

Or I guess more accurately— I’ve seen nothing from you that makes you town, and I have concerns, but there’s been so little from mala and NK (plus fire needs sorting) that I’m not sure you’re actually scum

i feel like i've been actively sorting people do you disagree

like what are you looking for that you're not seeing

[Save The Dragons]

i dunno if you should be town reading me but i don't know if you should have concerns

i mean

i am town

[Save The Dragons]

okay let's talk about it

what were you trying to say in post 146

And I thought your position of not worrying about people’s scumgames and just being able to read them regardless was plausible, but not reasonable

this is really a playstyle gripe and is nai as far as i'm concerned

[Save The Dragons]

this is really a playstyle gripe and is nai as far as i'm concerned

I mean I’m writing it off as mostly NAI but I think you’re wrong to take that position and I find it odd that you don’t find the reasons for why I think you’re wrong compelling

It’s the not seeing why the reasons are compelling (or perhaps me not understanding why you don’t find them compelling) that makes me suspect they may be false reasons to justify putting ari/skitt into the coalition more easily, which I would want to do if scum because it would be good cover for me

i mean i think you're wrong for putting people on a pedestal and having that affect your reads on them in this game so i'm not sure why i would find your reasons compelling

like i intellectually understand why you're doing that

but i don't think it's right

[Save The Dragons]

In 146 I was trying to make it clear that I was aware that 145 was not actually a compelling argument at all

But once I’d had the idea of the argument, I decided to post it anyway, because it would be funny to make a post that was trash arguing for why I’m town, only to immediately give a wink wink nudge nudge acknowledgement that it wasn’t that at all

ok how is this not performative

[Save The Dragons]

like i really feel like people are ignoring that part of the argument to be like "oh STD acted funny because he said the same thing as 146"

granted i don't think you're scum but i think it could be seen as performative, hence why i saw it as performative.

ping

[Save The Dragons]

Scummiest thing std has done is put himself in his coalitions

i will not vote for a coalition without me in it, i'm more comfortable picking out 4 townies than 5 townies

[Save The Dragons]

oh

cool beans then

[Save The Dragons]

i tend to scum read performative entrances

i think people have trouble getting into the thread as scum and overcompensate by being zealous or bombastic or performative

[Save The Dragons]

has anything i've posted affected your read in anyway, fire

[Save The Dragons]

you guys move fast i don't think i'm trying to fade into the background or anything but i'm not always on when you guys are talking to each other

[Save The Dragons]

trying to wrap my head around new fire posts

[Save The Dragons]

i mean maybe i don't like that the read on me hasn't evolved into a tr

but i am a little bothered it was just scum right out of the gate and it hasn't changed at all despite me trying my best

[Save The Dragons]

std:

ok i haven't really played much with std but i did meta read a bunch of games when i was trying to sort him in large 238 d1. i felt like i got a decent feel for how he approaches games differently as town vs scum, and thought that he was likely scum that game, so that's why i TA checked him n1. unfortunately he was traitor so i got a false inno

i feel somewhat hesitant to even try to justify this read bc i don't think im going to explain it very well but whatever

basically i feel like there is a certain energy that he has when town, like he is generally excited to solve the game and also just... wants to be there. he usually has reads that it feels like he really cares about, or even if he doesn't exactly, he still is trying to work with people and help move the game forward

as scum he has fine read progressions and etc and still can joke around and whatnot but he lacks that town energy. he seems content to be a background character and pop up occasionally with a Good Post, and yet not really drive things. when i read posts that he makes as scum i picture him making a face and being like "ugh do i have to do this".

here is a recent scumgame that i feel is illustrative:
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=88804&user_select[]=629
and a towngame:
viewtopic.php?p=13237692&user_select%5B ... #p13237692

these were just the first ones i saw but i think p much any of them would fit imo

i think his iso this game looks way closer to his usual scumgame. ive thought that since like his first 3 posts so maybe im confbiased idk, and maybe he's just lacking energy due to non-alignment-related reasons, but idk its still the read i have

if anyone who has played with him more than me thinks that this take is way off then im willing to reconsider

i dunno if i'd pick that town game because mech was a pretty big part of it and coalition you have to look at day play but i guess i can see the jokiness

i don't know what "town energy" i'm not displaying

i can't really refute this. i mean i dunno what to say other than it's incorrect

i also said the word testicle in my scum game but haven't said it here. not really relevant just thought i'd share

[Save The Dragons]

i'd ideally probably want some more time to ruminate but given that we're running low on time given everything we need to do i'm leaning towards me/dats/irrel/std/mena

what do you feel about this coalition skitter has proposed?

i could do that

[Save The Dragons]

gth solve is fire/mala with fire trying to get in and mala trying (or at least willing) to stay out

im nervous because i feel like i could be wrong about that but i would probably take any coalition without them at this point (probably not nk15 tho)

[Save The Dragons]

I mean like do you townread everyone in that coalition?

yeaas?

would you be excited to get it passed?

i'd be okay with it yeah i dunno if excited is the right word

would you be ok getting yeeted off the face of the earth if it didn't pass?

i'm never okay getting yeeted

also you can sheep her if you would like to get things moving

i kinda want to see where irrel is at because it sounds potentially viable for him

[Save The Dragons]

or maybe i was secretly waiting for a vc to copy paste
HURT: all
HEAL: Menalque, Save the Dragons, Irrelephant11, skitter30, Datisi

[Save The Dragons]

fire has a good read (that either I or std is scum)

i guess my problem with this is that the read was mostly "vibe" based against me and it was enough to bolster his confidence to post things like:

irrel and std i want out

ive been sus of std like all game

std i feel like my gut read is comparably strong to my feelings on irrel

granted i kind of play that way but it just feels a little off to me coming from fire

[Save The Dragons]

idk i didn't like the way std came around to a townread on me when i was starting to become a more popular townread while not engaging much with my points against him and bleh.

i don't think i needed to interact with you to develop this tr

i think my initial scumread on you was pretty weak and you've towntold since then imo

[Save The Dragons]

Honestly irrel ig my biggest issue with the scum-fire theory is: well, why?

i get that he's not pushing to be in the coalition but wouldn't carving a bloody swatch through a town coalition put him into the POE of people to be put into the coalition?

Besides, would you expect a scum!fire to try and replace us in the coalition so overtly?

[Save The Dragons]

otoh i am a little paranoid scum!Ari decided to take a bite out of town!fire at the beginning of the game to look like she was hunting

maybe i'm wrong about fire i dunno but i guess i think fire is scum at this point

[Save The Dragons]

got bad news today not sure if i'll be around

[Save The Dragons]

I'm ok I just need a moment

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mala why am i in your poe to not be in a coalition

[Save The Dragons]

gth solve is fire/mala with fire trying to get in and mala trying (or at least willing) to stay out

at first i was like



but now i'm like why would the scum team both push so hard to get me out maybe i just look scummy i dunno and i should try to reasses the people who are pushing me because maybe it is me and that's frustrating but i dunno

[Save The Dragons]

kittens why meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Save The Dragons]

i don't think that's a good reason but ok

i believe in you i believe you can read me

[Save The Dragons]

because i'm town here and i think you're capable of reading that and i have to assess whether you're legit having trouble reading me or just using this as an excuse to try and keep me out

[Save The Dragons]

why do you think im partnered with nk15

why do you think nk15 is scum

[Save The Dragons]

i wish there was a case i could argue against

i feel like fire is like vibes but i think my vibes are townie
i feel like mala is like i can't read you but i don't know why that's the case
i feel like menalque is...actually i dunno :< why are you scumreading me?

but all three can't be scum so i guess i'm doing something wrong and i'm afraid it's affecting the people who read me correctly initially and i guess it's affecting me more than it should

[Save The Dragons]

i guess my problem is i don't think i'm doing what i'm being accused of in 565. I don't think i'm "coming in with a "good post"TM whenever i feel like it, i feel like i've tried to take charge and guide town but i'm getting drowned out because people keep putting me as scum and not really explaining why

as scum i do tend to stick to the background and let the town make mistakes but as town i try to have presence. i think my scum game and town game are actually night and day and i think it should be easy to tell. i know, self meta take it with a grain of salt

which makes it hard for me to trust that read because it seems so static and not reassessed based on anything i've posted in response which worries me but maybe if everyone's scum reading i'm doing something wrong but it's hard to believe i'm getting null/scumread by people without scum's influence in the thread specifically gunning to keep me out.

[Save The Dragons]

fire can you show me you've actually re-assessed your read of me at any point

[Save The Dragons]

i think only one of fire/mala is scum at this point

[Save The Dragons]

i'm not sure.

could be nk15, but i'm also thinking mala just capitalized on an incorrect read to try and increase paranoia in the thread and increase her chance of getting into a coalition

maybe i'm wrong and it's fire still
it could be ari but i still think she's town

i don't really think it's you, irrelephant, or skitter and probably not menalque

[Save The Dragons]

my reads are probably bad and maybe my coalition shouldn't go through :S

i should clarify i think ari is town by play but i'm just most paranoid of that slot but then i go back to maybe that's what scum want me to think so i'm kind of spinning in circles

[Save The Dragons]

i like 932

[Save The Dragons]

why do you think we're partners

[Save The Dragons]

@fire

i dunno if i agree because i've been pretty vocal about including both of us in the coalition and even if he's said it i don't think he's taken me out

[Save The Dragons]

ari how has your read on fire evolved

[Save The Dragons]

maybe i should flirt with datisi and see what happens

hi dats <3 happy birthday

[Save The Dragons]

i scared him away

[Save The Dragons]

HURT: all
HEAL: datisi
aristeia
skitter
save the dragons
irrelephant

[Save The Dragons]

maybe fire

[Save The Dragons]

did nk15 heal anyone i'm too lazy to check

[Save The Dragons]

what does that mean

[Save The Dragons]

im around, just catching up for a sec

[Save The Dragons]

i'm starting to think maybe i need to be okay with a coalition without me in it which makes me sad

Menalque - i wish he posted more, i wish he was around now, we'll see but i've felt good about the slot but i'm also nervous because i feel like it's the slot i might mostly likely be wrong about but i'm willing to trust people if they say menalque is good

Not Known 15 - more like not in a coalition 15. but probably town so maybe it's okay to have them in a coalition?

Skitter30 - skitter seems pure i really want them in the coalition. i've liked their emotion, their solviness, i think this is town

fireisredsir - i dunno!!!! i'm waffling so hard on this, is it town is it scum, i think i'd probably choose to leave him off just because i'm so unsure. i really like some of their recent posting, it seems town, and i liked their energy in the beginning, but i hated the way he scumread me, and i didn't really agree with his read on irrel either. i think ari had some good points about his early play.

Datisi - i'm not really afraid of the flirting and i hear ari's argument that datisi tr her so early if he always scum reads her that's a little concerning for a pocket attempt. but he seems engaged and is not trying to take control of the thread in a way that seems like he's trying to solve and justify his reads. i don't think he was trying to get into the coalition in a way that seems town, not in a way that seems like scum hiding to let their partner get in

Aristeia - again i'm not afraid of the flirting, maybe afraid isn't the right word. anyway she seems genuine and i'm sure she could fool me but i trust my read and i think she is town here.

Irrelephant11 - i really don't get any suspicion here i feel like he's trying to lead the game and i've mindmelded so much with his thought process. i want him in the coalition.

Save the Dragons - that's me!

Malakittens - i'm actually worried the increased posting comes from a scummy desperate hail mary to try and get into a coalition but maybe i'm reading it wrong, either way i'm too concerned to let her in. maybe it's a little omgusy but i'm also not convinced of her scumread of me

my preferred pool is me and 4 of {skitter, irrelephant, aristeia, datisi} which is 4 so i guess that's a coalition. i could do menalque if people really believe but i don't think i could do a coalition that strays too far from what i've said.

[Save The Dragons]

i dunno

[Save The Dragons]

i feel like you weren't trying to force your way into the coalition, which seems town

[Save The Dragons]

probably the latter i was rushing before a phone call i had to take

[Save The Dragons]

what i do

[Save The Dragons]

have a good holiday

[Save The Dragons]

i dunno what to do with shallow or "i think you're scum"

i think my stance on putting people on a pedestal or not is NAI and i don't understand how you could be sring me for it

i dunno what else you're reading into but i guess i can't really ask if you're gone

[Save The Dragons]

i can't do it sorry

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me not being in it

[Save The Dragons]

how would i know

[Save The Dragons]

it's not over

[Save The Dragons]

fuck

[Save The Dragons]

fuck

[Save The Dragons]

fuck

[Save The Dragons]

i feel like i failed for not towntelling enough :<

[Save The Dragons]

The coalition has

failed.

Members: Aristeia, Datisi, Irrelephant11, Menalque, skitter30

went for a drive with my fiance which helped with my headspace

ari
dats
irrelephant
menalque
skitter

i dunno the only person i think it could be is menalque but i admit i haven't fully processed datisi's town case

but what if it's datisi and menalque does scum!datisi try to get scum!menalque into the coalition if he's already in it? probably not so maybe it's not both

im scared that there's two scum in the coalition i didn't really think about that i thought one on one off but what if it's not simple i mean it could just be nk15 or malakittens but since it's not both i dunno what to think. some people scumreading me are town and i don't like that but i need to get over it

this post sucks

ari - i don't know. i mean i think it's genuine i think there's something about her posts that i just *believe* you know. i get the paranoia though.

datisi started off as a scumread for me but maybe i was wrong about it but maybe my gut was onto something there. i don't know, i need to read datisi again, but i remember really liking a lot of his posts

irrelephant i just don't think is scum. there's a small tiny teensy weensy part of me that is like "what if they're scum trying to pocket you" but i guess i don't really see the point so i'm not really indulging this theory

menalque suspects me for reasons that in my opinion are weird or NAI so i don't know it's hard for me to ignore that but i should probably get over it like i said and see what else this slot contains. i still think the entrance was potential performative scum entrance but i dunno about other stuff

i don't really see skitter as scum but i don't know this seems kind of different from the go game skitter seems to have more energy and thread presence but maybe that's because the go game was a large and it's easier to get lost. also i knew she was scum because i was traitor so i probably didn't analyze her posting as much as i could have. arg i don't have a good reason to sr skitter though; i've really liked her posts.

last time i did this game mode the coalition succeeded and had me on it, just sayin'

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: menalque i don't think i'm convinced by datisi's case

i don't think the meta argument that this is not his scum game is a very good one, the game linked doesn't have a ton of posts from him and i don't think it's outside the play other than he lurked i guess but he kinda lurked a little here too

the post count argument sucks sorry

someone tell me i'm crazy paranoid for thinking datisi and menalque are the team and they took a concerted effort to force me out of the coalition by sandbagging me at the last minute and datisi bringing menalque's star upward

there's no way. they both had each other in their coalition somewhat early too.

ok i'm up to date

HURT: all
HEAL: datisi
HEAL: aristeia
HEAL: skitter
HEAL: menalque

this is people i currently feel the best about. yes i know this coalition is kind of unlikely to go through. next order of business will be reviewing irrel and std because i feel like they are both people that most others think are town, but that i did not get any definitive townpings from but did get some scumpings from, so i will have to review. that will be done sometime before i go to sleep today because i gotta go at least pretend i'm working on uni stuff.

HEAL: mena
HEAL: Relly
HEAL: dats

i think this was mena's first heal, so if they are the team i guess they would have had to decide to both be in the coalition or to try for it

looking back i'm not sure why irrelephant got pushed up and i got pushed down despite having similar takes on the game that sounds like a playstyle thing not a scum thing that bothers me a bit

i dunno if you want a reason for the vote maybe his iso is shallow. no but seriously i think the tone is off it feels fake to me at times

i want to look at ari a bit next

[Save The Dragons]

ugh i think my biggest problem with ari is that really early fireisred read

i mean i thought fire's tone was great coming in but i got convinced by ari he could be scum and probably too affected by his read on me

if fire is town, it's not a good look to just sandbag him so quickly. i know that ari wasn't exactly trying to be in the coalition but sometimes that's what you want if you're scum acting townie enough to be put in the coalition anyway. but that's not concrete that's just a random paranoid scenario that could be the case but could not be the case

but looking over the iso i guess there's not much there, there's nothing meaty to sink your teeth into

even the datisi read is like well of course you have a read on datisi you've been flirting with him all game and that's kind of your iso i mean there are also some good questions there so maybe i'm just crazy but where's the analysis or where's the thought process of 'this person is town because of X'

i think the "my brain is mush" is exactly the kind of posting i'd expect scum to make over town because scum are trying to have presence and are trying to emulate town though process. my brain is mush too though but i'm not just putting it in a post

then again even the little things like 1050 just FEEL genuine i dunno maybe i should be scared of ari but maybe she's just telling the truth

[Save The Dragons]

145 and 146 are very reminiscent of the ways mena used to joke with me and prob others in some of our older games. i started off this game thinking he's scum because he was feeling flat and 142 felt like he was dying inside and yeah. idk if scum!him ever got to being able to joke with me in a way that doesn't make Something feel off. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84455 the first posts of this page are like an example of what i mean ig

i just don't see 146 as a jokey vibe

142 sucks unless it was a joke

i dunno man i'm not sure what this is trying to say

also, in retrospect, 150 is *weird* to make if he's scum because like, it's decently possible he would have to play hard at some point, and he would have an ample opportunity to be townread because me and skitt and whoever else would go "wow mena is playing differently than he did in that other game where i last saw him as scum" and instead he calls attention to it why. idk.

i don't think 150 says at all what you are saying it says and i think you are trying hard to make it fit this narrative that he is town

ok i actually went to reread his iso from his last scumgame and viewtopic.php?t=88427&f=51&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

i feel like it's different than here. first order of business is his posts towards me. it's like. THIS is the extend of joking around he does with me:

Spoiler:

Also bc you’re so obvscum I felt it didn’t need saying really

this game is a circus

VOTE: mena

and that's throughout the whole game. maybe a month or so he was subbed in. like his vibes were way off.

i read this iso and i get that the case is not "he lurks as scum and he's not lurking here!" but then you bring up the post count argument so i guess it kind of is? but i just don't think there's enough to really tell, i don't think the vibes feel that different

also his "i don't wanna heal skitt/ari" business and not voting to form a coalition until he's not ready for one reminds me of him like. wanting the best for the gamestate and have things develop organically. hold on i remember a game where he said that (he was in a hydra with skitt but this was him posting):

Spoiler:

Subject: Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

infinity/scipio/datisi/pp/bridgeburners can be the townblock for today (ourselves included)

-seCret

STOP

-QB

Subject: Open 806: JK9++ (Game Over!)

i'd still like to know what this was/is about.

I thought it was fairly well known that I am against explicit discussion of townblocs/forming townblocs in almost a direct inverse proportion to how much I like actually having them

I guess apparently not so let me be clear: I am against explicit discussion of townblocs/forming townblocs in direct inverse proportion to how much I like having townblocs

-QB

not wanting to heal ari/skitter on the basis of clout is just as NAI as me not believing in that shit. in fact i think it's more likely to come from scum to try and pocket.

i think just because he's playing to his town meta here doesn't make him town, i think "not wanting to form townblocs until he's ready" once doesn't equate to him being town here.

like town!mena wants to solve the game and he wants a solveable game. there's like, you can feel the cogs turning in his head when he's making posts like these because he's thinking of the future and what's gonna make the game readable. compare that to the scum iso i posted, there is nothing that makes him see the bigger picture. it's just empty air going from post to post (edited to add later on: 651 also fits that picture. scum!mena would benefit from there being paranoia about the coalition bc there's a chance town is derpy enough to completely fail to make one and because it gives him easier avenues to attack later on and and i also remember him saying spewing chaos is sometimes good as scum in micro 892 when we were scumbuddies and like idk. 651 feels townie in the same vein the others here do)

you use the phrase empty air i dunno what i'm supposed to take from this other than he was kinda lurking. i just don't know what mena's done to accomplish a solvable game. i will state i noticed he asked a lot of questions as scum and hasn't done that exactly here so maybe there's something there but i'm not seeing it. i don't even like meta arguments anyway i'm just indulging it for the sake of argument but i just don't see it, sorry.

and here it's like, his arguing about skitt/ari not only provides the game being more sortable to him (or like, at least he believes it will be more sortable to him) but there's also the fact that he probably won't look great off of it to anyone other than maybe me and skitter and i'm not sure if that's worth the effort

maybe

maybe he's being extremely bigbrain by having me townread him for it and defend him but again, looking at that prior scum!iso i don't feel it chief

also compare the towncase he did in 414 to a towncase he did in the scumgame: viewtopic.php?p=13206702#p13206702
it just feels like in the first example he's using like actual progressions to show where someone is town while in the other it's like... "well you didn't attack me and also you're attacking this loud person so you're town lol"

the two town cases look a little different i'll give you that but i don't think it's outside the realm of possibility they come from the same alignment.

also if we're comparing postcounts there he posted ~60 times in 20 days while here it's been ~80 in 6 - i know postcount isn't much and that scum!mena can sometimes spam but i feel like it's A Point

still yuck, you're trying to throw everything against the wall to see what sticks

also the thing on ari/fire around 674 - nowhere in his scum iso do i see any "if x then y" posts even remotely similar to this which even more makes me think that that's like, and actual thought he has

674 looks performative to me like "look i can't be scum i'm hunting but i'm not going to tell you how hehe"

[Save The Dragons]

i need to wrap my head around the ari/skitter thing soon

[Save The Dragons]

I mean 1195 is pretty convincing but i'd like to hear from skitter again when she gets back

[Save The Dragons]

i mean maybe i'm biased by knowing i'm town here but i still don't believe you could come to a townread on irrelephant and a scumread on me when we've had similar thoughts in the game similar stances on people and i think a similar progression of thought

but not talking about me, i just don't see what's so townie. like yes there's talk about ari/skitter and there's talk about irrelephant being town but what else is there? some questions? that's in his scumrange according to the game you linked which i still think is a poor example of meta that you're trying to pigeonhole into a good argument.

regarding ari and skitter i just don't see it dude 1) he could easily back out of it if needed 2) it's NAI to have reads on certain players for being "good" or "better" 3) i don't see how he's planning for the future see point 1 4) there's a slight chance that ari/skitter are a partner that they're trying to downplay and distance from 5) not doing something last game as scum isn't really a precursor to not doing it as scum in the future if he thinks ari will "play around" his tell of her so he's not telling us what it is certainly he knows how to change his own damn meta

i dunno maybe i'm just wrong and i'm looking in the wrong place??? but i don't think your case is as ironclad as you want to believe

[Save The Dragons]

well that's frustrating because i though i was pushing the game forward and taking charge and trying to lead the thread but it feels like because i wasn't online at certain times when people were talking to each other it just looks like i was behind and playing catch up

i don't know how to argue against my reads not being nuanced or "real" because they are real and i don't do a lot of nuance i don't think so that's kind of a playstyle thing i think

i think that it's menalque for reasons i've already outlined and i think you are a possible partner so it could be both of you. i need to go back to your posts and see if there's something there, i guess i owe you that but i don't know if i'll do that soon or not

i'm waiting for skitter to respond but i think ari's points are more accurate of what happened and i think skitter is not recognizing ari's contribution of trying to cede control to push a narrative that you and ari are scum. i don't know if that's true or not. i think i need to hear from skitter to see what she says. i see a world where both ari and skitter are correct in which they both tried to cede control to the other and fell because scum outside of them took advantage of that but i need to see more.

irrelephant i don't think is scum, if they are they tried to pocket me and considering no one is seeing the influence i've had on this thread i guess the question i have is why

[Save The Dragons]

maybe it's my playstyle but i feel like i've been pushing my trs to be known all game which may not look like leadership and thread control but i've tried to be vocal about it and any scum reads i've had too

[Save The Dragons]

i dunno. maybe that's not reality

[Save The Dragons]

maybe it's irrelephant or skitter or ari and i'm just lost UNVOTE: gonna think about it a sec

[Save The Dragons]

i mean i've argued against your town points i don't think the meta argument is a good one and i don't think he's done much in the game and what he has done seems wrong somehow

i outlined that it was a concerted effort to get menalque into the coalition and keep me out like there's no guarentee that you would stay in the coalition so to get both of you in covers your bases and if one flips scum it opens the door for us to mislim outside the coalition no it's not a great reason but it's something i could see happening.

i think menalque could easily be partnered with malakittens/nk 15 even maybe fire maybe that's more likely than you but i don't want to count out the possibility

[Save The Dragons]

am i absolutely crazy for thinking it could be menalque

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: menalque

[Save The Dragons]

i can't do irrelephant without a really good case

[Save The Dragons]

what are your thoughts on menalque

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who is your first choice in the coalition, dats

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i feel adrift and lost now

[Save The Dragons]

i feel adrift and lost now

Why?

i feel it's hard to get my voice heard in this pl but i dunno if what i've said is worth anything

[Save The Dragons]

can you like make a case for mena being town skitter

[Save The Dragons]

STD is semi-conftown and being entirely ignored!

i felt this in my soul because i feel like i took effort to be less vibey and more analytically for the gamestate and i got mostly shot down and it made me feel small ngl so i appreciate you seeing me i know i'm being a little too emotional and need to step back but i did appreciate this so thank you

the fact you have the same scum read as i still means you're either pocketing me hard for no reason because i have no influence in this gamestate or we're kindred town and we may be onto something here so i'm thinking it's the latter

[Save The Dragons]

i dunno about nk15 but i'm feeling a little better about them now that they're not tunneled but i still don't know how i feel. i think they're wrong about ari and datisi and it's hard to reconcile that feeling but i've liked recent posting so i'm not so sure they're scum

i think i just need to take a breath

i'm not confident in menalque but i'm not really confident in any other person being scum inside the coalition and i'm not convinced by arguments

- i don't think he's so out of tune with the viable coalitions as scum
- i don't think he's so picky about who gets in/out as scum
- he tries to buddy me more as scum / get on my good side / defer to my reads/pushes to try to win some points
- he tries to have more of an ~impact~ as scum, as town i don't think he cares (see: his last scumgame, where he faked a guilty on his partner. he's way more out of tune with what's going on rn)
- i think he'd try to keep up more and exert more influence as scum, here he's more laid back and less trying to control/direct things

in short i don't think how he's played this game is how he would have as scum

i don't know that he was out of tune with viable coalitions i think he had mostly a viable coalition

i don't know that he was picky other than not me, see below

If I need to change because we don’t have numbers tell me literally right now who I need to change it to

I’m not voting StD tho

as for the rest like maybe i can't argue how he'd behave i don't really know him but they're not super impactful arguments to me. i feel like some of it is nai he's been busy like have you asked yourself if scum!menalque just doesn't have enough thread presence here because he's been busy? i mean maybe you're right and he's been too laid back to be scum i dunno i don't really know what to do here

[Save The Dragons]

like look at the first para -- it's not addressing the substantive points of what dats is saying but instead trying to simplify it down to "empty ISO"

i did that earlier in 1210 you literally show that next

look at the second -- the only points actually relevant to me being scum are "1) he could easily back out of it if needed" and "4) there's a slight chance that ari/skitter are a partner that they're trying to downplay and distance from" -- 2, 3, and 5 are all just negative points trying to critique Datisi's reasons for me being town instead of saying why I'm scum

that's not correct. you're treating something that's NAI as not NAI and that's part of my problem with you. i don't see these as points critiquing datisi these are actual points against you so i'm not sure what you're trying to say

look at these on their own. is any single one really a believable reason for a read? like, they're all about trying to argue for why Datisi's reasons are bad but they're not advancing why I'm actually scum

it's supposed to be that it's a critique of datisi's read on you. this feels disingenuous. especially because i say things like "i think it's more likely to come from scum trying to pocket." you're choosing to ignore actual reads i have to make me look worse

so again, there's a shitload of qualification as he makes the vote "maybe" his iso is shallow "feels fake to me at times". it's "the vibes" that are off. so far the only actual reason that StD has given is that I've been performative at one point

the entirety of his game and "read" on me have been based around that since post 146

patently false, i said you could be scum pocketing ari/skitter. I said your post 674 looks performative too. i said your ISO is empty, which is a point you kinda made against me so I don't see how that's something you can just handwave away.

so what about StD's other reads? what are the reasons behind them?

ari "there's something about her posts that I just *believe*"
datisi "maybe my gut was on to something there" "remember really liking a lot of his posts"
irrelephant "just don't think is scum"
skitter closer to actual reasons but still incredibly weak and unconvincing "skitter has more energy and thread presence". "I don't have a good reason to sr skitter" "I've really liked her posts"

mena "suspects me for weird or NAI reasons" "performative entrance"

you quote one post where i summarize my reads but ignore every other post i've made where i've substantiated some of those reads.

because, as I've said before, if you can't give the reasons why your gut feels a certain way, then you don't have a reason for it and you're just guessing. unless you're right A LOT, in which case it should be easy to provide lots of evidence if you don't happen to already be a player known to be insanely accurate (e.g. Thor, Cabd etc)

hey, if you're town and i'm wrong on you...you don't know me, but my reads are right a lot. stop sleeping on me just because you don't know me. i'm not saying i'm the greatest mafia player ever, but quit this hero worship bullshit and open your mind to the possibility that someone you don't know could be actually good at this game.

the sorts of things above are exactly the type of thing scum do and say -- pick who your target is,

if you're actually town you seem to think you're supposed to be tr when you've done scummy things. once you admit that maybe you can see why i picked you
if you're scum i caught you get over it

don't re-evaluate

hey here's me re-evaluating

maybe it's irrelephant or skitter or ari and i'm just lost UNVOTE: gonna think about it a sec

lack of actual reasons for suspicion, lack of beyond surface level thinking about that, focus on attacking reasons against why they're town instead of making your case for why they're scum

all of these are uncharitable and untrue

I don't think it's believable that StD's reads are real. I don't think that it makes sense that StD is suddenly okay with my posts and alright with my being on the coalition only to then immediately switch back to me being scummy for fundamentally a reason that has been consistent from the start of the game.

it's called re-evaluation

I don't think it's believable that StD's reads are real. I don't think that it makes sense that StD is suddenly okay with my posts and alright with my being on the coalition only to then immediately switch back to me being scummy for fundamentally a reason that has been consistent from the start of the game.

okay let's take a look at what actually happened

149 152 i suspect you.

292 i change my mind on you. i specifically say i'm okay with you on a coalition.

508 i explain the scumtell that caused me to scumread you, i no longer believe it applies because i want you in my coalition

913 is important to note you are claiming to scumread me with no reasons given, i also say "but all 3 can't be scum" hinting i am starting to suspect the people who are scumreading me without giving me reasons which was mala, fire, and you.

976 i take you out of my coalition

1097 clearly states i'm uncomfortable with you but i'm just willing to trust people

1152 coalition with you on it fails

1193 i go back to my previous suspicions of you and change my mind here. because: your read on irellephant and me shouldn't be so disparate if you're town. you call my iso shallow but provide no reasons why you're scumreading me, it reads as fake. you're reading my playstyle and judging me for it. your tone reads as fake.

you're bananas if you seriously think there's no progression, no re-evaluation, no reasons

i've given reasons for voting you throughout the game, you given reasons for voting me once just now. i've had a progression on you that makes sense where i've changed my mind over and over. it's nuanced with different factors like you scumreading me for no reason, you not being around, me worrying about not being able to read you

your case against me is full of twisting the narrative to make it look like how you want it. you're bluffing. you're just scum here.

[Save The Dragons]

and where you not just picked a target, not re-evaluated reads, made surface level logical leaps, and everything you're accusing me of doing? Show some receipts.

[Save The Dragons]

This is good tho, you’re actually providing reasons now!

(1) my read on you and relly should be similar

i mean maybe i'm biased by knowing i'm town here but i still don't believe you could come to a townread on irrelephant and a scumread on me when we've had similar thoughts in the game similar stances on people and i think a similar progression of thought

(2) I called your iso shallow but didn’t say why

i dunno what to do with shallow or "i think you're scum"

(3) I’m reading you based on play style

looking back i'm not sure why irrelephant got pushed up and i got pushed down despite having similar takes on the game that sounds like a playstyle thing not a scum thing that bothers me a bit

(4) fake tone — blah, unless you want to expand

i dunno if you want a reason for the vote maybe his iso is shallow. no but seriously i think the tone is off it feels fake to me at times

you'll notice none of those posts i quoted are 1513 so it's extremely uncharitable to be like "oh you're providing reasons NOW"

[Save The Dragons]

why the hell would irrel and i tr each other so early and mindmeld and put each other in the coalition if we were partners

[Save The Dragons]

I've not looked into these interactions in detail, but that's definitely the scumteam. These interactions are extremely partner-y.

I've not looked into these interactions in detail

definitely

uh

okay

[Save The Dragons]

HEAL: save the dragons
HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: skitter30
HEAL: irrelephant11

i'm just vibing with irrelephant here, content seems very stream of conciousnessy in a way that scum would avoid for fear of revealing too much.

just a couple more for your collection

where i first tr irrelephant in post 121. Post 121.

and another reason i tr irrelephant

[Save The Dragons]

it's all about tiger theme

[Save The Dragons]

tiger theme is amazing i just changed it to tiger theme and i'm living holy crap this hurts my eyes but i'm living for it

[Save The Dragons]

proof i'm using tiger theme



orange is my favorite color so it's orange but this is like ORANGE and i'm not sure anyone even someone who loves orange like me can handle just how orange this is

ok i'll stop talking about themes and get my head back into the game

[Save The Dragons]

I don't want skitter to be scum, @aristeia @std @fire please determine if this is tvt or tvs so I can proceed accordingly

I can't blame skitter for finding posts manipulative (i don't know that they are but i can't blame her for being wary).

i dunno. i'm turned off by skitter wking mena but i'm trying to give it its due diligence in case i'm wrong here

[Save The Dragons]

skitter me saying "why don't you want to vote scum" isn't me trying to pivot to you, and if mena flips green I'm the one that looks bad.
I said it because I'm dumbfounded that you don't want to vote menalque after the way he's played this game day

@fire? @std? Am I missing something here? Is skitter just a stubborn towny?

i think so.

i could see scum kind of locked into this position but i don't think skitter was all for town!mena before this phase. it would probably be easy for scum!skitter to go "maybe i'm wrong" and toss some shade onto mena but the fact that she's sticking to her guns seems somewhat townie.

[Save The Dragons]

im still not caught up but what frustrates me is the obvious mischaracterizations and sliminess and people are just ignoring that.

mena has clearly decided i'm scum but has no nuance to it no re-evaluation no thought process behind it. it's not like a townie finding a scumread at all, it's like scum picking someone because they have to. and people are just ignoring that.

mena has lied about what i've said to make me look worse and people are ignoring that. 1522

mena posted a monstrous wall and then acts like my monstrous wall in response is disgusting. subtle manipulation. 1669

mena's being performative again by voting for me showing off that they can't be scum because scum would be crazy to try to flip STD but i don't think he was trying to flip me i think he was showing off that he wants to in order to look townie

[Save The Dragons]

you are right, i think that some of the mena defenders are ignoring these things tho

[Save The Dragons]

why am i townreading mena for the way he's acting right now

even when i think it's more likely objectively that irrel gets flipped rather than mena

i feel like on some logic level, that should make me see mena's "flip me lol" as scummy but i just don't think it does

im really confused how you got here

[Save The Dragons]

why did you answer for datisi

[Save The Dragons]

:<

[Save The Dragons]

okay like here's the thing

if someone wants me to get off of menalque they have to point out why as town he would mischaracterize my sr of him specifically to make me look bad

like i'm beyond my sr at this point and locked onto him for that alone

[Save The Dragons]

i don't get it i don't see the need to put extra effort to make a case that's not accurate even if he's confirm biased. that took a conscious effort that i believe comes from scum and it's hard for me to see it any other way

it's frustrating because i've had this happen to me before and i was right and no one listened to me

[Save The Dragons]

i think irrel is town

i think i'm sticking to my guns on this one

[Save The Dragons]

:<

[Save The Dragons]

i'm looking back at some of the language i used and i think my emotions are seeping through so i apologize if i made the game heated or uncomfortable for people i think this game is pretty intense which is a good thing but it's easy to get lost in emotions and not take a step back and say it's just a game so i apologize for that

@datisi,skitter 1522 i finally got ari to answer this but i just don't see a town!mena doing this to me. yes/no please tell me if i'm wrong for suspecting mena for accusing me of not having a case on him when i can cite evidence where i did

[Save The Dragons]

why is mena obvtown

[Save The Dragons]

ok i guess i'm just here then i dunno what to do

[Save The Dragons]

ok i guess i'm just here then i dunno what to do

just ftr i dont wanna seem like im shitting on you, i can try to address your case against menalque later after im caught up and see if we can claer things up that way

i mean it's not just you

maybe i'm tunneled so hard but it was nice to have irrelephant in here being like "listen to me AND std when we tell you this" it was easier when someone was on my side but now i'm just doubting everything and frustrated because why would mena mischaracterize my case on him as town i don't really get it but i guess other people are just okay with it

like i'm not even trying to get them to look at my case anymore i'm like look at this scummy thing he did post case and ari said "nah" and i can't get the two people tring him based on meta and familiarity to even comment on it

[Save The Dragons]

ok i guess i'm just here then i dunno what to do

just ftr i dont wanna seem like im shitting on you, i can try to address your case against menalque later after im caught up and see if we can claer things up that way

i mean it's not just you

maybe i'm tunneled so hard but it was nice to have irrelephant in here being like "listen to me AND std when we tell you this" it was easier when someone was on my side but now i'm just doubting everything and frustrated because why would mena mischaracterize my case on him as town i don't really get it but i guess other people are just okay with it

like i'm not even trying to get them to look at my case anymore i'm like look at this scummy thing he did post case and ari said "nah" and i can't get the two people tring him based on meta and familiarity to even comment on it

i hate getting ignored in games and feel like i constantly have a problem with people doing it to me so

i promise, promise, promise i will return to what you are saying here and give you a thorough response

but if you could link me posts you've made pointing to your case on him so i don't have to dig for it, that would be much appreciated


deal?

1522 outlines my current point against him and features pieces of my case from other posts
1513 is a rebuttal to his case against me which was in post 1484

[Save The Dragons]

sorry I just don't think those things are alignment indicative for him

ii just can't see it that i way. i understand what you're saying but i don't think it's as bad for him as you say it is

but again you actually took the time to talk to me about it so i appreciate it it's datisi and skitter who have just ignored all attempts irrel and i had to make cases against mena and who the hell knows where NK15 is at

the fact that mena is being townread by both replacements is devastating because maybe i'm just wrong and i don't really know what to do from there

[Save The Dragons]

but again you actually took the time to talk to me about it so i appreciate it it's datisi and skitter who have just ignored all attempts irrel and i had to make cases against mena and who the hell knows where NK15 is at

i responded last night

apologies for missing this

[Save The Dragons]

I'm with friends functionally vla but I'm around and trying to stay abreast of what's going on

[Save The Dragons]

UNVOTE:

[Save The Dragons]

I'm willing to do Mena still if that's an option but I dunno if theres enough desire there and I just don't know if I'm just wrong even though I agree with your points

[Save The Dragons]

What's the count

[Save The Dragons]

I dunno I dunno I dunno

[Save The Dragons]

I like all of you guys I'm having fun let's keep having fun

VOTE: datisi I dunno what to do but I think this makes the most sense if we are not doing mena

[Save The Dragons]

My reads suck

[Save The Dragons]

i think the kill is weird and i too have a dumb theory about it but it's probably just there to throw us off

i dunno i think gth it's just roden at this point? but i dunno what to think anymore i just townread everyone else more

[Save The Dragons]

more than roden. i dunno maybe it is just ari/datisi and nk15 is a god i really don't know what to think

[Save The Dragons]

i think the kill is weird and i too have a dumb theory about it but it's probably just there to throw us off

i dunno i think gth it's just roden at this point? but i dunno what to think anymore i just townread everyone else more

more than roden. i dunno maybe it is just ari/datisi and nk15 is a god i really don't know what to think

You literally haven't interacted with me

What makes you think I'm scum

mala

[Save The Dragons]

How should I be reading you

[Save The Dragons]

i think the kill is weird and i too have a dumb theory about it but it's probably just there to throw us off

i dunno i think gth it's just roden at this point? but i dunno what to think anymore i just townread everyone else more

more than roden. i dunno maybe it is just ari/datisi and nk15 is a god i really don't know what to think

You literally haven't interacted with me

What makes you think I'm scum

mala

Go on.

good morning friends!!

v/la tuesdays and wednesdays

- uni is hell on these days. i see the *extremely* short deadline for the coalition however so i will do my best to at least check in on my phone during these days if need be

HEAL: datisi
HEAL: fireisredsir
HEAL: malakittens
HEAL: aristeia

fire reads kinda tonally the same as he did last game. yes i did misread him that game shut up. i have a probably very horrible reason for a townping on malakittens. and i was always gonna heal ari anyway but i do genuinely like the callout in 26 to keep an eye on the deadline.

VOTE: aristeia <3

ari, why do you think fire is mafia?

datis is prob town
ari feels town as well.

HEAL: datis
HEAL: ari

idk about skitter,
i'm very bad about reading std
i dont have much exp with fire

why do they townread each other so early that bothers me.

there's also literally no progression on her read of me it doesn't seem real. her other scumreads are kind of meh. she says things like "scum is in {std, ari, datisi} and also things like "ari/datisi aren't s/s" so why not go all in on me? she just...doesn't for no reason. and it's just kind of a garbled mess that looks like datisi kicked her in the pants to post

but i don't really know how to make it clearer to you that i have no idea what to do i feel like you're trying to jump on me for a weak read and i'm like i know it's a weak read but it's all i got.

[Save The Dragons]

Mala not going all in on you should be clearing after Mena's flip. Mena was tunneled on you and Mala could've easily followed, instead she voted Mena

This condenses the events into 2 sentences when it occurred over several days of real life so you'll have to do way better if you want to call something mala did clearing.

Mala town read Datisi because Datisi's specialty is getting town read and guilting people into backing off their scum reads on him. I can only guess why Datisi "town read" Mala, but seeing as he also town read me while shading Blood, it was likely to build a fake association and pocket her.

I don't know if this is true I mean why pocket a low impact slot she posted like 4 times and has a tendency to not post much this just doesn't seem likely

[Save The Dragons]

I'm not going to just tunnel you roden for things mala did

I wanna talk about it

[Save The Dragons]

i like the points in 2757

as time goes on i've been getting more paranoid it's ari. i think she's really convincing though, and i feel i have more reason to tr her than sr her. i'll try to take a closer look.

i don't know if i like the "scum me would do this" argument but it also seems believable.

roden just giving up seems a little dramatic. i don't know if it's a ploy to get tr or if it's genuine, especially since it seems to be me who's somehow singlehandedly going to off him somehow

fire i'm not sure about just now because ari's going for him and he's not going for her, i could see a scum!fire wanting to follow a bh onto ari but i could also see a scum!fire wanting to try and convince ari to tr him by wking her. but maybe he's town and just doesn't believe in the case against her, i dunno.

i'll try to be less hedgy in the future. i don't think it's bh, i really didn't think it was irrel ever so i think that's the only place i'm not willing to consider.

[Save The Dragons]

Need some time will try to talk tomorrow morning

[Save The Dragons]

ari and datisi is a hard case to make as partners because they would have interacted together as any combination of t/t t/s s/s so it's hard to look at interactions and go "is this theater?" when it's all a little showy, there's a lot of tr of each other which could be trying to convince other people that they are town. the way that ari wants to keep off the coalition and datisi kind of is ambivalent maybe suggests that they planned on datisi being in the coalition from the start in a scum!ari world.

i *feel* like, if ari were scum, it doesn't make too much sense for her to see skitt attacking her and go "actually i will try to placate this fight by proposing a coalition of me skitt and dats, after skitt said she does not want neither me nor dats in the coalition"

like i know fighting with skitter is not Fun but this does not seem like a move scum makes because like, i don't feel like skitt would be very open to that idea

mmm this is wrong on every level.

(1) Scum!me would absolutely placate her at this point because it's much easier to 1v1 someone inside coalition after failure than someone outside coalition after failure because eliminations happen in the coalition.

(2) fighting with skitter is fun and I think I could pocket her as scum.

(3) <3 you Dats I still think you're town <3

it's interesting how ari discredits a town read that datisi has on her. that could be a way of distancing, or trying to look unaligned by disagreeing with him. but it could also be a truthful statement

you do understand if this coalition fails skitter is going to eat you right?

if the coalition fails and she wants to do that, she's gonna have to drag me to that yeetotine kicking and screaming so good luck with that i guess

i know this is a cute gif but looking back it almost pings me as TMI like they both know it's going to fail at this point, but then again why post this in public if they were scumbuddies

1056 she goes back into a tr of datisi to help cover it up if scum!ari

i can't get over posts like this though:

fen is it over?

this is what i mean by feeling genuine and it's hard to believe she's lying

Sorry last one and then i'm going!
Once i indicated dats was where i would flip first and it was obvious you/dats were a pair basically - it always behooves scum-you to have him in there no matter his alignment once you were in there (and basically everyone but me and like mala/nk15 wanted it iirc)

If he's town there's your first misflip
If he's scum you can always argue once he's flipped that the coalition is clean

I want to address this accusation here in this post;


Datisi is one of the hardest players to misflip on this site - he very rarely gets misflipped as town and only by truly stupid people because my god when this man radiates townieness it is blinding. He hasn't gotten there yet this game but if he was threatened I think he probably can get there.

I doubt I would ever think of trying to misflip him. Not only would I feel incredibly bad about it - but like it's just not something that's easy or strategically sound to do? There are many people I would find easier to misflip in this PL, I don't think there's actually a player more difficult to misflip than him.

The thought of trying to put him into the coalition to set him up as a misflip after townreading him is just not something I would do or even consider doing. It's just so bizarre that the thought would never even cross my mind - my scum game for all you rave about it is actually fairly simple - I mostly try to flip the people who are easy to flip. I don't really try to jump over a 50 foot fence when there is a nice open door somewhere else.

secondly I didn't even want to be on the coalition until Datisi talked me into it:



I was perfectly content to sit off coalition with my scumreads and play support for you. I didn't force my way into your coalition and drag Dats in to be some decoy, he was the one who convinced me to come.

the indignation could come from scum who's plan got derailed when they had to put both of them on the coalition. she blames datisi as a way of distancing, but also more treating datisi as town using words like "misflip" like there's no consideration about datisi being scum.

i dunno is this helpful? i feel like i'm talking myself into something that may not be true. but i don't want to be hedgy because it's when i'm confident in my reads they're more accurate.

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: skitter

hello scumbutts

IDK

i'm just voting a fellow kittykat

HEAL: skitterrrrr

mew

HEAL: malakittens

i can't get over this it's almost like the opposite, if datisi and ari are scum, they had a conscious plan, but if datisi and mala are scum, they probably were just winging it and datisi was trying to make mala seem more townie than she was, or didn't realize just how not townie she was in her opening posts.

maybe i shouldn't be so picky and Ari -> Roden or Roden -> Ari just wins us the game. it could be fire but i'm not as convinced as the other two, but maybe i should take a closer look.

[Save The Dragons]

thank you

[Save The Dragons]

thank you

[Save The Dragons]

i guess my problem is mala did scummy things and she's not here to defend herself.

and the answers you gave are reachy. but that's probably what i should just expect from you if i'm remembering why i scumread you in control which makes it NAI.

i know it's hard but it would help if you were engaged this day phase.

like what do you think of bh's case on ari? what do you think of ari's consistent scumread of fire? what am i missing that should make it obvious you are town?

[Save The Dragons]

VOTE: aristeia

i really think eliminating {ari,roden} wins us the game at this point

[Save The Dragons]

i worry the way you've had a fire!scum read all game seems to me like you've decided fire is scum and pushed everything into that narrative rather than having it organically come up.

i'm willing to re-evaluate that read if i'm wrong about you though. i really am. i just don't see it at the present.

[Save The Dragons]

you selected him to be scumread by you (scum) as opposed to having it come up organically as a read (town)

[Save The Dragons]

im not going to just vote roden but i think it's roden here gth

but i want to look at fire as well, it's possible ari was right

this has been a difficult game and i'm just not sure what to do here

[Save The Dragons]

what do you want me to do

[Save The Dragons]

i thought it was ari yesterday you seem to think that me voting ari means i really wanted to vote you for some reason i don't get

[Save The Dragons]

like i didn't come after you yesterday because i thought maybe i was wrong about you but you've done nothing to really show me that i'm wrong about my suspicion of you, you're just shitting on me

[Save The Dragons]

then why the fuck did i vote Ari instead of you

[Save The Dragons]

do you think that's telling, hmm?????

[Save The Dragons]

out of respect for ari, who turned out to be town, i want to look at fire some more before i vote anyone sorry to disappoint

[Save The Dragons]

that's not really what i said

[Save The Dragons]

that sure proves i didn't say "well you weren't here so you don't get it"

[Save The Dragons]

mala was scumreading me for a lot of the early game then changed her mind. you acting like she should have voted me doesn't apply because from what i remember she didn't go with mena until after she was done scumreading me so i don't get how that's clearing or a point in her favor.

did you answer why they would pocket a low impact slot?

[Save The Dragons]

have you ever played elo before

[Save The Dragons]

you're acting like you've never played elo before

[Save The Dragons]

Yeah I have no idea which one of us roden is pushing

[Save The Dragons]

You're not listening to us when we say we want to evaluate both options

[Save The Dragons]

It takes 5 seconds to be current it takes more time to reanalyze the entire game

[Save The Dragons]

I thought ari was scum I don't know why that's so hard to understand. Jesus christ I even cased her yesterday but you're obsessed with one comment I made a long time ago and don't even think that I could be renalyzing

[Save The Dragons]

It takes 5 seconds to be current it takes more time to reanalyze the entire game

Did you ask for a fast night? At least one person said no, so we had an entire night phase to look back over the game. Did you?

Do you always?

[Save The Dragons]

Why did you think Ari was scummier than me? You cased her at the last minute, I don't see much of a progression there.

I didn't case her at last minute but yeah I don't know if I explicitly said earlier I was worried about her. I wasn't really until Datisi flipped.

[Save The Dragons]

I don't reread games over night. I asked for a fast night.

[Save The Dragons]

There is no "obsession", you've scum read my slot the entire game. Are you claiming you didn't...?

I'm claiming I said things like "gun to head" and "maybe"

You're claiming I said things like "roden is 100% confirmed scum"