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Post #48 (isolation #6) » Sat Aug 13, 2022 3:53 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 47, Juice wrote:Two more people can hammer me right now - I don't care about dying Day 1 in a mafia game. Everyone on the wagon - would look DAF though afterwards for pushing a RVS wagon
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Post #61 (isolation #7) » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:56 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 54, Hiraki wrote:This game is already to a very confusing start when half of the player base has already pinged me in a bad way. I feel like it's me and Meg against the world here.
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Post #172 (isolation #16) » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:15 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
I'm giving you every lifeline I can here.
Mafia is very much a team sport. It is about persuasion, deception, deduction, but most importantly cooperation. If you are town, your goal isn't just to figure out scum. It is to figure out and persuade others that scum is scum.
In that same vein saying 2 players are the scumteam while not supplying evidence and dying for it would not be helpful to the town, regardless of whether that solve is correct or not.
Really dislike Juice's backpedal here. I agree with herta it feels very handwavy and I get 'soft' coaching vibes from it. Please elaborate Juice about what you were hoping to find and what your conclusions are from this "test"
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Post #208 (isolation #20) » Tue Aug 16, 2022 1:31 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
I don't think they approach the wagon in the way they did if it was actually a reaction test. Especially since they ignored a lot of questions, at least a few of which were more general and not about the push they now say is a test.
In post 208, MegAzumarill wrote:I don't think they approach the wagon in the way they did if it was actually a reaction test. Especially since they ignored a lot of questions, at least a few of which were more general and not about the push they now say is a test.
Correct. I agree with you that this whole 'test' is not genuine. My point is that I'm not sure if it comes from town or scum. Gut says town but I really don't trust my gut here.
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Post #242 (isolation #25) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:51 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
You refuse to participate in discussion directly adressed at you.
Even if you aren't being actively Anti-town, you are refusing to engage in pro-town behavior, at all.
If you aren't going to help town play the game then I see no reason not to eliminate you. At worst we lose a non-player.
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Post #243 (isolation #26) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:52 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 241, Juice wrote:Also what interesting Meg - is you've made me one of your main target in this game in the very off. Random Stage - During my rxn test - And after it. This make me think - that you've perhaps decided with your partner - I might be an easy push on Day 1. And when I flip town - you can just be like ' Oh xe was pretty erratic'. 21 - a majority of your post have been about me, but you've really not engaged with any of the more active players. What are you hiding?
I'm hiding extreme frustration with you.
You're welcome.
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Post #244 (isolation #27) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 3:54 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 241, Juice wrote:Also what interesting Meg - is you've made me one of your main target in this game in the very off. Random Stage - During my rxn test - And after it. This make me think - that you've perhaps decided with your partner - I might be an easy push on Day 1. And when I flip town - you can just be like ' Oh xe was pretty erratic'. 21 - a majority of your post have been about me, but you've really not engaged with any of the more active players. What are you hiding?
I'm not accepting slayer's gambit at this time, or any time.
In post 242, MegAzumarill wrote:You refuse to participate in discussion directly adressed at you.
Even if you aren't being actively Anti-town, you are refusing to engage in pro-town behavior, at all.
If you aren't going to help town play the game then I see no reason not to eliminate you. At worst we lose a non-player.
What is hilarious about this - is that even if you don't understand my style of play. I have actually been attempting to scum hunt and see scum potential in other player. You've only tunnelled one player, but not actually looked at anyone else or been involved in lookign for potential sign of scum.
Using your own logic - If you aren't going to help town play the game then I see no reason why we shouldn't eliminate you. At worst we lose a non-player.
You refuse to communicate in a game where the only input you have is communication.
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Post #257 (isolation #29) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:16 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 247, marcistar wrote:why are you engaging with them if theyre clearly not trying to help town? if you think that just move on and try to sort others..?
For the players that are active I don't have the neccessity for it mostly. I can sort them based on play and be done with it for a moment. The problem is I don't feel confident with their being such huge question marks with Johnny and Juice. Herta and Hiraki have some content to analyze, but it's conflicting and recurs to juice anyway. Ausuka, and Aisa are already sorted as +town, and I believe I've clarified on you/qusuka, with aisa being primarily tone/ more subjective reasons. I suppose that would leave you, whom I have prompted for content, and was met with no response.
Speaking of, do you want to clarify your reasons for scumreading me?
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Post #259 (isolation #31) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:19 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 253, Juice wrote:there is a massive irony in meg targetng me - cause they just drawn attention to themselves. You dun played yourself
This also doesn't make sense. By sharing a read I'm making myself scummier by non engagement?
Your argument is self defeating and I will address it no longer.
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Post #264 (isolation #33) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:25 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 260, marcistar wrote:megs just doing this thing where they're roleplaying a teacher. it appears super helpful but it isn't. about iso #11 down is where it gives those vibes. its alot of agreeing / asking questions / explaining shit.
I get what you're saying but why do you think I wouldn't do this as town?
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Post #265 (isolation #34) » Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:40 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
Do you think town!me sees play that doesn't make any sense from either alignment and not try to divine its purpose from the player? Wouldn't their points have been meaningful if not ignored to show if the play was genuine?
I suspected it wasn't so I probed for my answer.
And I was right. The play was disingenuous, by their own account. That much is settled.
That isn't to say I couldn't (or even wouldn't) have done that as scum but I feel like it should be pretty clear there are motives and values for town!me to play as I have. What part of my play do you not see coming from town!me?
In post 285, Aisa wrote:To explain what's going on in my head, my thing is Juice keeps just randomly calling people scum and there doesn't seem to be any attempt to actually explain why. ik this is something people have said before. I understand they have said that they play like this to generate reactions. And they did.
What I
specifically
dislike is that any push can be justified under the guise of "just reaction testing hehe " and they are not giving much else to back it up.
Their OMGUSsy reaction is also frankly not helping things though I probably can't see things clearly there atm.
if you actually think this - you would have just kept your vote on me. But because you are mafia - you know I will flip town
This logic doesn't track.
They have stated not voting you yet to prolong the dayphase. That doesn't hinge on your alignment.
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Post #292 (isolation #38) » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:12 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
Frankly these "gotcha moments" Juice is using here doesn't add to the reasons of wanting to townread xem. They feel desperate almost, like instead of trying to formulate an argument they want to latch on to some kind of inconsistant logic that doesn't hold up to a basic readthrough of the events.
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Post #295 (isolation #40) » Thu Aug 18, 2022 12:15 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
I think from a basic tone perspective even juice doesn't try to address the town as a whole, rather preferring to address the accused with their scumread which feels odd if they were actually are town. In a vacuum it's fine but the way they are doing it doesn't feel reasoned.
In post 406, Radical Rat wrote:Yes, I was wrong about Juice. So was half the game, and Juice was an anomaly by actively playing against the game, up to and including xyr self hammer. It's why I haven't put any effort into wagon analysis, Juice undermined whatever could have been learned by that by refusing to elaborate on anything when asked, and hammering xyrself instead of making someone else pull the trigger. I don't regret voting there, nor do I think there are any useful lessons to be learned. Had Juice played Mafia instead, xe probably would have lived for one, but if they hadn't and if it were my fault, yeah I probably would have stepped back to reevaluate things after.
Juice was an easy push for scum to make because xe acted in such a silly way. I think there were definitely scum pushing that wagon
Or they saw what was happening and knowing xe would likely go down without them pushing it stayed off of it. Actually now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps I should be going back and looking for unnatural defenses of Juice... I'll follow up on this later
I mean, I just disagree. There were definitely people who acknowledged bad play does not mean scum
And there's people who acknowledged that and also acknowledge that the way juice was playing is more likely to come from scum than town.
The only person who really defended Juice at all was Marci and I
think
Hiraki somewhat. I do think that the way marci defended juice was probably +town, but that's pretty much the only thing going for town!marci atp fmpov.
In post 406, Radical Rat wrote:Yes, I was wrong about Juice. So was half the game, and Juice was an anomaly by actively playing against the game, up to and including xyr self hammer. It's why I haven't put any effort into wagon analysis, Juice undermined whatever could have been learned by that by refusing to elaborate on anything when asked, and hammering xyrself instead of making someone else pull the trigger. I don't regret voting there, nor do I think there are any useful lessons to be learned. Had Juice played Mafia instead, xe probably would have lived for one, but if they hadn't and if it were my fault, yeah I probably would have stepped back to reevaluate things after.
Juice was an easy push for scum to make because xe acted in such a silly way. I think there were definitely scum pushing that wagon
Or they saw what was happening and knowing xe would likely go down without them pushing it stayed off of it. Actually now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps I should be going back and looking for unnatural defenses of Juice... I'll follow up on this later
I mean, I just disagree. There were definitely people who acknowledged bad play does not mean scum
And there's people who acknowledged that and also acknowledge that the way juice was playing is more likely to come from scum than town.
The only person who really defended Juice at all was Marci and I
think
Hiraki somewhat. I do think that the way marci defended juice was probably +town, but that's pretty much the only thing going for town!marci atp fmpov.
How do you feel towards marci's wall? Admittedly I haven't looked super hard into their meta as different alignments, but do you think marci would produce something like that as scum?
Overall its alright I guess. I could see scum!marci making that in defense but I do also think it can be town.
In post 422, MegAzumarill wrote:Overall its alright I guess. I could see scum!marci making that in defense but I do also think it can be town.
This is an awfully wishy washy answer. Or noncommittal I guess. I was waiting for Aisa to post to see if it was brought up.
Maybe I'm missing something and that's why it wasn't pointed out?
I don’t really mind the response per se, like sometimes you don’t feel strongly about how AI a post is and that seems fine?
I’ll give you they seem a bit passive now that I look at the ISO again. Either they think we need more from marci, in which case the post above is a bit non-committal, or they have an opinion on marci but haven’t really stated it. Which one is it Meg?
It's that we need more. I don't feel particularly strongly on scum on any player, so it's maybe 2 parts sheeping RR 1 part scumread on my vote here.
In hindsight I should probably do another readthrough of day 1 now that some time has passed.
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Post #435 (isolation #55) » Sun Aug 28, 2022 3:32 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 433, Radical Rat wrote:Which is interesting since Meg was on the wagon, while continuing to engage with Juice as though xe were just misguided Town. However, this is also a problem I have sometimes, and have been wrongly called scum for it before, so I'm hesitant to jump on it outright.
Imagine calling this a problem.
Full disclosure here, I did want someone to put Juice at E-1 when I unvoted, so that I could give intent and watch the resulting fireworks. Didn't work out that way though.
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Post #452 (isolation #56) » Mon Aug 29, 2022 6:17 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 450, Ausuka wrote:I would say the Marco push and the Herta read aren't really scummy independently but play into a worrying trend. I think the part where he says Meg is the most likely player to be scum but spends his time pushing other people is just bad.
I mean is someone being directionless a scumtell considering just about everyone is directionless here?
Although I suppose scum doesn't need to try direction since the game is so stagnant.