Micro 1060: Radiology Mafia [Game Over]
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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I was sort of gushing about the theme of this game because radiology is cool and it spiralled into having a little Google for bunny-and-radiology images and I found this extremely cute - hmm,thing, I don't want to spoil it:
Spoiler: image
Public service announcement: everyone is by law required to agree with me about the cuteness content of this image or face elimination.-
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My oh my, what a wholesome smiley face, Juice.
Had to Google lhf and the first result was Latvian Hockey Federation, lol.In post 19, Herta wrote:
Why would you think I'm lhf instead of scum?In post 17, Aisa wrote:Fishing for a reaction.
What did you think I was going to say? I mean this as a genuine question, not in a passive-aggressive way.
I didn't particularly think you were low-hanging fruit in the sense of a good elimination. Nor did I think you were scum, it was just one of those posts you make in RVS.
Hey Juice, do you think I'm town?-
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That I am yet to determine. I do, however, believe Juice and Johnny to be the constituent members of the Beige Hat Duo.In post 24, Radical Rat wrote:
Stop dodging the question, do you or do you not believe Herta to be a member of the Latvian Hockey Federation?In post 22, Aisa wrote:[...]
Ooh ok I reread it and I suppose the rat in "never trust a rat" is not the animal.In post 27, Ausuka wrote:I don't know why but when I read this post I got a strong feeling that you were scum like some sort of supernatural entity was trying to send me a message
(yes i'm being overdramatic allow it)
VOTE: Juice
I kind of liked it better when I thought it did refer to the animal, though. VOTE: Juice
P-edit: if I ask the fae nicely do you think I can get a beige hat too?-
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What's weird about it?In post 30, Hiraki wrote:
Weird post.In post 27, Ausuka wrote:I don't know why but when I read this post I got a strong feeling that you were scum like some sort of supernatural entity was trying to send me a message
(yes i'm being overdramatic allow it)
VOTE: Juice
Suppose this wagon on you never went away. Suppose two more people came along, voted you, and you got eliminated really quickly.In post 47, Juice wrote:Two more people can hammer me right now - I don't care about dying Day 1 in a mafia game. Everyone on the wagon - would look DAF though afterwards for pushing a RVS wagon
I feel like you would have to make a distinction between the people who were on the wagon first and the people who came along later? Like surely the person who cast the final hammer would be more at fault that those who came earlier. Would you agree?-
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Yes and no. I guess I think it's more complex than someone's positioning on a wagon and depends on what their motivation is. What do you think my motivation is?In post 59, Juice wrote:
By your own logic - doesn't that technically make you the scummiest on the wagon currently? Freudian?In post 53, Aisa wrote:
What's weird about it?In post 30, Hiraki wrote:
Weird post.In post 27, Ausuka wrote:I don't know why but when I read this post I got a strong feeling that you were scum like some sort of supernatural entity was trying to send me a message
(yes i'm being overdramatic allow it)
VOTE: Juice
Suppose this wagon on you never went away. Suppose two more people came along, voted you, and you got eliminated really quickly.In post 47, Juice wrote:Two more people can hammer me right now - I don't care about dying Day 1 in a mafia game. Everyone on the wagon - would look DAF though afterwards for pushing a RVS wagon
I feel like you would have to make a distinction between the people who were on the wagon first and the people who came along later? Like surely the person who cast the final hammer would be more at fault that those who came earlier. Would you agree?
VOTE: Aisa
I felt like your original argument boiled down to "putting me at E-2 is dangerous because I could get hammered quickly". It felt like that was ignoring the fact, as RR said, that if two people just came along and quickhammered you they would face a lot of scrutiny the next day.
If your argument is more along the lines of "putting me at E-2 is opportunistic, turns my wagon into a Real Wagon and sets the stage for me to be possibly eliminated later on" I think that's fairer.
Is there anything you wanna know about my thinking that would help you read me here?-
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In post 51, Ausuka wrote:
ok but what do u mean by clownish I want to knowIn post 44, marcistar wrote:
i don't have a read on juice im just saying they seem self absorbedIn post 43, marcistar wrote:In post 38, Ausuka wrote:What do you mean by clownish? Also could u elaborate on the juice thought because I don't see it and am also not sure if you're townreading them for it
r u saying ur not town bbIn post 57, marcistar wrote:I think you've done it in a townie, not worried about anything, sorta way.
Is there a reason you haven't replied to Ausuka, marci?In post 58, marcistar wrote:wheres asuska i miss fighting with someone-
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In post 46, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
This doesn't hold up. Are you scared of quick hammers?In post 34, Juice wrote:Putting me at L-2 is pretty strange behaviour - certainly not very town orientated.
Any new thoughts on Juice now you've had a little time to think about it? Anyone else catch your eye for town or scum?In post 49, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I'm acknowledging that I read your post, though I don't know what they mean.-
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Ehh I'm struggling to discriminate between this being a valid read and marci's sorta-early-tr-on-me feeling me with serotonin.
BUT I've tried my best and I'm feeling kinda good about marci!
I like the angle she's chosen here. "Ausuka is just playing dumb". It feels a bit too speculative and unserious. In a way that suggests towniness to me.In post 64, marcistar wrote:
yes, ausuka already knows what i mean shes just playing dumb.In post 62, Aisa wrote:Is there a reason you haven't replied to Ausuka, marci?
like literally "same clowness as last game" is so hard to understand apparently
Imagine being this married to "what I'm saying is very clear" as scumIn post 69, marcistar wrote:literally what im saying is ur acting the same as last game whats so hard to understand about that?!?!?
Anyone disagree with me?-
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Idk I'm not sure it really makes sense that you hadn't really given any thoughts at that point. You're hanging onto the fact that marci's reasoning doesn't make sense but I'm not really sure it's the kind of read that is supposed to be, you know, deeply thought out. I'm not sure this line of questioning is likely to shed much light.-
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I kind of got a similar SvS vibe and I think it's because both you and marci essentially brought up the same point repeatedly and neither of you seemed willing to relent. As far as arguments go I think that's one of the easier ways to fake them.In post 122, Ausuka wrote:
I'd be interested to hear more about this - what about the interaction seems SvS?In post 116, Juice wrote:Yeah this whole exchange does seem scum vs. scum on surface level - but if its just one scum in the interaction I wold suspect its marcistar. The whole last few posts just feels very forced.
UNVOTE: VOTE: Marcistar
I strongly disagree that what I was saying about marci isn't game related btw - although it is true a lot of the argument ended up being clutter because we kind of went around in circles, she was making a meta point and I think talking about the game she was referring to helps explain my perspective her read might have been TMI.
I think Juice warrants looking into more if nothing else. I'm not confident at all xe is scum but I think the way xe seems slightly selective with what xe responds to, and xyr tone would benefit from further investigation, so consider my vote there a serious one now.
Kind of a token contribution to ensure I don't get caught by the prod timer, but RL willing I will probably be around again in a couple hours.-
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I mean, it's easier said than done, but the theoretical answer is to disengage. In the same way you wouldn't push Enchant for only making one-liner posts. I feel like your reasoning here is just the tiniest bit reachy and it's slightly +scum.In post 131, Ausuka wrote:
I mean, I was asking a question and she repeatedly dodged it and started being hostile, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do in that situation.In post 125, Aisa wrote:I kind of got a similar SvS vibe and I think it's because both you and marci essentially brought up the same point repeatedly and neither of you seemed willing to relent. As far as arguments go I think that's one of the easier ways to fake them
It was all part of the same stream of consciousness. As in "ooh the SvS thought kinda makes sense but there are these other things I dislike". The part of my mind that resolves contradictions in my writing just went on annual leave for a while because it's been working overtime and really deserves a spa retreat :3In any case, I specifically asked Juice about this rather than, like Hikari or something because I wanted to hear it from xem and I'm a bit curious to why you would answer this question for xem when xe is your main suspect?
Spoiler: meme-
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I am also keen to see Juice answer the questions xe has been asked.
I'm not sure how productive it is to write a detailed answer to the other points in your post so far, but I can cover them if it's something you would like. But it seems worth quickly pointing out that that sentence is supposed to mean "the fact xe answers questions selectively + [the fact] xyr tone [is a bit snappy] [means] xe warrants further investigation" if that makes sense?In post 209, Ausuka wrote:I said I was going to look into Aisa's past games. I did, but so many of them were from years ago that I don't think it's particularly useful.
I think this is the scummiest thing in the game so far. What does "xyr tone would benefit from further investigation" really even mean? [...]In post 125, Aisa wrote:I think Juice warrants looking into more if nothing else. I'm not confident at all xe is scum but I think the way xe seems slightly selective with what xe responds to, and xyr tone would benefit from further investigation, so consider my vote there a serious one now.-
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Actually -
In that post I specifically said this:In post 209, Ausuka wrote:[...]
I think this is the scummiest thing in the game so far. What does "xyr tone would benefit from further investigation" really even mean? It also feels like unnaturally hedgey. Instead of just like, pressuring Juice, or really make the case that ye is scum here, she's really emphasising the weakness of the read. It feels like she's trying to appear super reasonable and stay under the radar more than solve the game. I guess a good way to put it is that she's more focused on looking like she's sorting Juice than actually sorting Juice here.In post 125, Aisa wrote:I think Juice warrants looking into more if nothing else. I'm not confident at all xe is scum but I think the way xe seems slightly selective with what xe responds to, and xyr tone would benefit from further investigation, so consider my vote there a serious one now.
[...]
and that was specifically meant to explain why it was a less meaty/focused/pushing post. Is that something you're factoring into your read?Kind of a token contribution to ensure I don't get caught by the prod timer, but RL willing I will probably be around again in a couple hours.-
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Hmm, I'm thinking it might make sense to townlean you here.
I was conflicted because your push on me had kinda pinged me:
- "Does not feel particularly genuine" is just kind of random shading I can't say much about,In post 138, Ausuka wrote:I think I want to vote for either Aisa or Herta but I am not sure which right now. Aisa I think feels the scummiest based on play; she does not feel particularly genuine, there's the thing I pointed out, I feel that the juice push is really easy and her approach towards xem feels unnecessarily passive I guess? Like, it feels like she's holding back and trying to appear super reasonable. I will have to check her past games to see how alignment indicative this actually is.
Herta's vote on Marci is the worst and while I don't think his play is like *that* scummy I think the jump on her is ?probably? More likely to come from scum than Hiraki and Juice and if I'm looking for scum on the Marci wagon I would start there
- The thing you pointed out I'll give you probably looks bad from your pov, but in my mind it made complete sense so my immediate, knee-jerk reaction was that you were trying to force something,
- You said the Juice push was really easy and then proceeded to vote xem yourself. In fact now that I reread it you had already sussed Juice at the time:
Spoiler:
Niche theory, but it is even possible that you were worried about Juice being an easy wagon yourself and sort of ended up projecting that onto me. I'll vaguely mention that there are a couple more small details but I'll contain myself and stop here =P
However,on further consideration I think there is stuff in your ISO that's actually quite promising. I like some of your explanation about your interaction with marci, but I'll try to talk about something else for the sake of not making too big a deal out of that.
This seems to show a solvey mindset. I also think it's sort of a difficult line of reasoning to come up with as scum.Spoiler:
Also, post 190 is just really... comprehensive. One detail I like is this:because I think there is some probability that if Hiraki is town here, scum gets a bit "spooked" and doesn't say that they didn't think lots of detail was necessary.Spoiler:
To conclude, I think some of the towny stuff you've posted probably outweighs the parts I dislike about your push on me. I just think faking e.g. 190 would require a certain level of skill as scum. I haven't ruled out the possibility you are capable of this as scum and this is sort of a note to self to think about this more.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the simple, easy, plain interpretation leans towards you!town.-
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Where to now?
I am still interested in Juice answering the questions asked of them. I think enough questions have been asked so I'm not going to add any to the pile.
I understand I need to take a wider look at other players in this game, I'll try to do that tomorrow.
I think I'd like you to touch a little on whether you still think Ausuka is genuine? And maybe like a brief comment on what seems genuine about her reaction if that seems appropriate.In post 181, Radical Rat wrote:
In the abstract sense, yes, clogging up a thread with nonsense that also separates the two partners is a potential scumstrat. In this particular case though I believe that Ausuka is just as frustrated as she presents herself to be, and that marci is feeding and encouraging that frustration on purpose. It could be for nefarious ends, it could just be that they enjoy it. But because Ausuka's reactions appear genuine, it rules out SvS in my mind. Either or neither could feasibly be scum, but probably not both. If I were told one of them MUST be I'd pick marci first, but for now I'd rather just move on and let other things play out.In post 176, Hiraki wrote:
Correct - this is the perceived motion. To me, town normally does not act in a behavior to cause so much disruption. Acting that way, then getting run up, only for someone (generally town) to then say "hey, this is kind of dumb" is a textbook scumplay to me. It gives them both independent town points while actually being on the same dependent team. It is not supposed to be SvS on first thought but behind the surface layer I think it becomes more probable than TvT. TvS is also probable but really dumb in the long run.In post 120, Radical Rat wrote:Ausuka's frustration seems genuine to me, and Marci is blatantly trolling and egging them on.
[...]-
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I wonder what would happen if I asked you why. Shall we conduct this test?In post 219, marcistar wrote:
vote meg its a good vote i promiseIn post 218, Aisa wrote:Where to now?
..."Why?"
Spoiler: quote
Did you see this@RR?-
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I mean, you got around to answering it eventually and that's what matters. Thanks!
Just realising I kinda messed up because I told myself I would not talk too much about the interaction yesterday, but I feel weird without at least quickly acknowledging what you've said. I'll try to wrap-up this up quickly: re-reading the interaction keeping in mind what you said doesn't really make it "click" for me that Ausuka is town, but I guess it's not a crucial debate right now because the other bits I found towny yesterday are still a thing.
In post 223, Hiraki wrote:[...]
In this fashion, I've seen it done more as town than as scum. It's not anything I'd like to bet on but it's something I'd use if I had to bet on it.In post 222, MegAzumarill wrote:
Your gut says being disengenuous is towny?In post 210, Hiraki wrote:
Correct. I agree with you that this whole 'test' is not genuine. My point is that I'm not sure if it comes from town or scum. Gut says town but I really don't trust my gut here.In post 208, MegAzumarill wrote:I don't think they approach the wagon in the way they did if it was actually a reaction test. Especially since they ignored a lot of questions, at least a few of which were more general and not about the push they now say is a test.@Meg, did you take anything from Hiraki's response? Is there anyone you're suspicious of aside from Juice?
@marci, are you sussing Meg or defending Juice or both?-
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To explain what's going on in my head, my thing is Juice keeps just randomly calling people scum and there doesn't seem to be any attempt to actually explain why. ik this is something people have said before. I understand they have said that they play like this to generate reactions. And they did.
What Ispecificallydislike is that any push can be justified under the guise of "just reaction testing hehe " and they are not giving much else to back it up.
Their OMGUSsy reaction is also frankly not helping things though I probably can't see things clearly there atm.-
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It's funny I keep getting in this situation, but there is a very natural question to ask here...In post 284, marcistar wrote:juice is clearly town
Why?-
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In post 322, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Radiologist is a bad thing to lose I bet
VOTE: JohnnyFarrarIn post 330, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I also read that incorrectly
It would really help if you could state one read with some motivation behind it. I know you posted this catch-up post, I'm looking for one consolidated stance.
Were you trying to say that marci is town here? What were you specifically trying to accomplish with this post?In post 147, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I literally won last game as scum in part because people don't trust Marci for playing like this.
Aussie you were there.-
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Hi I'm Aisa and I'm here to talk about why I'm not feeling Ausuka's posts in the Ausuka-RR interaction.
Spoiler:
It starts off ok. I also read this and thought that RR's push was kind of an odd angle, given that Hiraki's most memorable stance to me was the really strong scumread on RR.
Spoiler:
I kind of liked RR's response and I think that the human mind works in mysterious ways and I'm not sure why they find it so hard to believe that RR could have just come up with the thought.
Spoiler:
Bit dodgy they're pushing the rodent (sorry, I just like that nickname too much, I hope you like it too RR) for "not doing much evaluation" on their first post of the day.
Spoiler:
This seems pretty NAI, included for completeness.
Spoiler:
I agree RR's logic here is not airtight, but it doesn't have to be airtight for it to be a genuine read. It feels like Ausuka is being deliberately tunnelly. Like they seem more interested in poking holes in RR's logic here than in actually trying to assess if RR is coming from a towny mindset.
Spoiler:
Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.-
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1. Happy scumday!In post 350, Herta wrote:I think carrot face may be town
2. Who... who is carrot face?!
By the way, I will unironically write a haiku for anyone who can understands how to read marci and can explain it to me. If a haiku is not attractive enough I could be persuaded to do a whole sonnet or even an MS paint doodle xx-
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The reason I haven't asked you questions directly is that I got the impression you weren't very likely to answer them, but sure. Did you consider at all that that was why I wasn't asking you questions?In post 354, marcistar wrote:
i can read marci i think....In post 352, Aisa wrote:By the way, I will unironically write a haiku for anyone who can understands how to read marci and can explain it to me. If a haiku is not attractive enough I could be persuaded to do a whole sonnet or even an MS paint doodle xx
just ask me questions bb
You're voting RR now, but you haven't done much to push them. Why not? Like I have ideas and I know this kind of seems like a dumb question if you're town because *your playstyle*, it would still be useful to hear it in your own words I guess.
Aside: I originally wrote a version of this reply trying to imitate marci's tone but I couldn't figure out a way of wording it and posting it without seeming like I was making fun of her which is not my intention at all. I still kinda want to show the world my marci impression though, so there you go:
Spoiler:
In post 356, Radical Rat wrote:[...]
1. Why is marci carrot face and not the rabbit?
2. Why is marci Town?
You didn't answer the right question and I do kinda want to know :puppy-eyes:In post 357, Herta wrote:1. I don't think the rabbit is town right now.
2. Just a feeling I get from her being so talkative and combative.
Also I saw you calling me the rabbit, rodent-
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I agree you are not tunnelling according to the correct definition of the word. My bad. I guess the expression of "she seems more interested in poking holes in RR's logic than in actually trying to assess [...] RR [...]" is closer to the best version of my argument.In post 364, Ausuka wrote:
I don't think this applies here. First of all, I'm really not tunneling - I townleaned RR d1 and only just started scumreading them. Secondly, I think the holes in the logic are *exactly why* RR comes off as not having a towny mindset. I don't believe that after Hiraki is nightkilled, someone who had been pushing RR, RR assumes Hiraki was killed for his reads, when they know Hiraki was vocally wrong about at least one thing. It comes off as too convenient, allowing them to pivot into scumreading Marci at the start of today - after pushing Juice Marci is the logical next easy target for scum because neither of them have any self preservation and both say things that make no sense.In post 351, Aisa wrote:I agree RR's logic here is not airtight, but it doesn't have to be airtight for it to be a genuine read. It feels like Ausuka is being deliberately tunnelly. Like they seem more interested in poking holes in RR's logic here than in actually trying to assess if RR is coming from a towny mindset.
Your explanation now does clarify what you meant by "a convenient push", so that's nice.
I think I understand that you are claiming RR is scum because you find the holes in their logic scummy, I don't think that's a convincing rebuttal to my point that you seem interested in poking holes in RR's logic.
I do agree with you there are holes in the logic, it's not a super convincing push. I found your reaction disproportionate to the hole in the logic, if that makes sense.In post 365, Ausuka wrote:Like, I think the holes in the logic are not particularly difficult to understand. You also found this an odd angle. RR is not a new player. Why should I believe that their thought process is genuine? The simplest explanation is that RR was looking for a pivot into Marci and planned to use the Hiraki kill as an excuse to do so while also eliminating their biggest critic from the game.
I think claiming to townread that post is pretty null. The emphasis you're putting on assessing logic just feels like it could be a pretty nice way to create red tape, so to speak. If we're gonna poke holes in people's logic we could be here for many weeks.In post 366, Ausuka wrote:
And yeah, obviously I've heard of a tone read. That doesn't mean I'm just going to accept any read and not question it. It's absolutely possible that RR is town here and I just don't understand their angle. But given how simple Herta's post is, I think claiming to townread it is scum indicative. It makes it seem more likely they are tailoring the evidence to fit the reads rather than the other way around.In post 351, Aisa wrote:Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.
I guess that in terms of making me think you're town your reply just doesn't do anything for me, unfortunately. I think you've explained what your position is and I believe I understand it, but the fact it seems like a restatement of the points you've already made leaves me a bit tepid. Let's change the topic a bit maybe, feel free to talk to me about anything other than that interaction. This is probably my last post today because *gestures vaguely at her life rn* but I'll be around tomorrow.-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
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Here is my best attempt to explain what my point was.In post 375, Ausuka wrote:
I really don't understand this point. I've explained why I am "poking holes" RR's logic; I don't think the position they showed at the start of the day is genuine and I think it meets a scum agenda. You can make the point I'm doing this as much as you like but you don't really explain why this means I'm not assessing RR.In post 374, Aisa wrote:I think I understand that you are claiming RR is scum because you find the holes in their logic scummy, I don't think that's a convincing rebuttal to my point that you seem interested in poking holes in RR's logic.
Not to mention you are doing exactly the same thing you are accusing me of doing! You are trying to poke holes in my argument to the end of arguing that my position isn't genuine! I don't think that's inherently a problem - it's a common tactic used in mafia games - but doing it while arguing it's somehow fundamentally flawed and scummy is really strange to me.
Initially I thought the following:
- Let's assume that the NK is a bad reason to scumread marci.
- You saw RR use the one-line post as a reason to sr marci and went "Aha! That's a bad reason to scumread marci, therefore you must be scum".
- However, both town and scum can have bad justification for their reads, so bad justification is actually approximately NAI.
- You pointed out the bad justification and seemed uninterested in contemplating a world in which this bad justification came from town.
You said this in response:
Spoiler:
I give you that you did explain why you don't think RR's position is genuine. However, this reads to me like you are doubling down - am I correct that you are essentially saying "I don't believe this justification comes from town"?
I think it's completely fine for you to think so if you are town, but FMPOV that just felt like a restatement of what you had already said:
Spoiler:
And given that this ^ post felt kinda like motivated reasoning, the fact you've mostly restated your original position didn't really help your position in my eyes.-
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In hindsight though this reply (I wrote it! *waves*) was kinda bad, I now think that independently of Ausuka's alignment they weren't really trying to create "red tape" so I think I get why my posting would have confused themIn post 374, Aisa wrote:[...]
I think claiming to townread that post is pretty null. The emphasis you're putting on assessing logic just feels like it could be a pretty nice way to create red tape, so to speak. If we're gonna poke holes in people's logic we could be here for many weeks.In post 366, Ausuka wrote:
And yeah, obviously I've heard of a tone read. That doesn't mean I'm just going to accept any read and not question it. It's absolutely possible that RR is town here and I just don't understand their angle. But given how simple Herta's post is, I think claiming to townread it is scum indicative. It makes it seem more likely they are tailoring the evidence to fit the reads rather than the other way around.In post 351, Aisa wrote:Have you ever heard of a tone read or a vibe read (<3)? I think this is the worst post of the bunch and seems pretty forced. Ausuka Feels Deliberately Tunnelly: The Sequel.
[...]
But I believe that my point that claiming to townread Herta's post is pretty null still stands? Like I think I probably just disagree with how alignment-indicative it is.
Also probably worth stating out loud that this kinda reads motivated, especially the "why should I believe...?"In post 365, Ausuka wrote:Like, I think the holes in the logic are not particularly difficult to understand. You also found this an odd angle. RR is not a new player. Why should I believe that their thought process is genuine? The simplest explanation is that RR was looking for a pivot into Marci and planned to use the Hiraki kill as an excuse to do so while also eliminating their biggest critic from the game.
I also disagree that the simplest explanation is RR looking for a pivot into marci? The simplest explanation in my eyes is Townie being town.
VOTE: ausuka
Given all the above-
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Is it just me or does the above post not make much sense?
That is a pretty fair summary, yes.In post 408, Ausuka wrote:
So you think my scumread is bad and that because I'm pushing a read which is NAI I am scum?In post 398, Aisa wrote:scumread marci, therefore you must be scum".
- However, both town and scum can have bad justification for their reads, so bad justification is actually approximately NAI.
- You pointed out the bad justification and seemed uninterested in contemplating a world in which this bad justification came from town.
Like I'd never say that pushing a read which is NAI means someone is scum in itself, but the way you are pushing it seems scummy, yes.-
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How do you feel towards marci's wall? Admittedly I haven't looked super hard into their meta as different alignments, but do you think marci would produce something like that as scum?In post 411, MegAzumarill wrote:
And there's people who acknowledged that and also acknowledge that the way juice was playing is more likely to come from scum than town.In post 410, Ausuka wrote:
I mean, I just disagree. There were definitely people who acknowledged bad play does not mean scumIn post 409, Radical Rat wrote:
Or they saw what was happening and knowing xe would likely go down without them pushing it stayed off of it. Actually now that I'm thinking about it, perhaps I should be going back and looking for unnatural defenses of Juice... I'll follow up on this laterIn post 407, Ausuka wrote:
Juice was an easy push for scum to make because xe acted in such a silly way. I think there were definitely scum pushing that wagonIn post 406, Radical Rat wrote:Yes, I was wrong about Juice. So was half the game, and Juice was an anomaly by actively playing against the game, up to and including xyr self hammer. It's why I haven't put any effort into wagon analysis, Juice undermined whatever could have been learned by that by refusing to elaborate on anything when asked, and hammering xyrself instead of making someone else pull the trigger. I don't regret voting there, nor do I think there are any useful lessons to be learned. Had Juice played Mafia instead, xe probably would have lived for one, but if they hadn't and if it were my fault, yeah I probably would have stepped back to reevaluate things after.
The only person who really defended Juice at all was Marci and IthinkHiraki somewhat. I do think that the way marci defended juice was probably +town, but that's pretty much the only thing going for town!marci atp fmpov.-
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UNVOTE: Ausuka
I'm doing this to show I'm aware I need to broaden my horizons and properly think through everyone in the game. That's something I've always been aware that I need to do. As we get closer to deadline it seems more important to be more open about what I'm thinking.
I do really think it's worth reconsidering the quality of Ausuka's push on RR. To be clear, though, part of the reason my vote/attention has been sitting on Ausuka is that no-one else is pushing them and I don't think putting some extra attention there would hurt town at all. I'm not so certain they're scum that I'd hammer right this very second.
Sorry, I did see this yesterday but didn't get around to it.In post 423, MegAzumarill wrote:In post 401, MegAzumarill wrote:So aisa you think this push on RR is disengeuous here? Could you elaborate on that more@aisa
I don't think there is actually a massive amount to comment on that I haven't commented on, I still think this shows what pinged me fairly well. Additionally I'd note that:
- Ausuka hasn't really shown much sign that they're re-evaluating their read on RR after my comments. It could be that they are engaging with the game just not explicitly talking about this in their posts, it could be that they're just busy etc. but on the whole this seems +scum, they seem pretty comfortable there.
- Some of their posts just strike me as suspicious tonally, like this one here kiiind of reads as "why should I bother trying to read RR when I can just "expect" them to post better?"
(I am aware that is not the point Ausuka is trying to make in the actual post, they're trying to say "I believe RR would post better". I think.)In post 365, Ausuka wrote:[...] RR is not a new player. Why should I believe that their thought process is genuine? [...]
However I have to confess that I'm like
...I think you're right you can, yes and maybe that's all you're doing, this is all probably a sign I need to drop this for a day or so.In post 424, Ausuka wrote:
So why can't I believe that the way RR pushed marci coming into the day, pinning the Hiraki kill on her right away, is scummyIn post 417, Aisa wrote:Is it just me or does the above post not make much sense?
That is a pretty fair summary, yes.In post 408, Ausuka wrote:
So you think my scumread is bad and that because I'm pushing a read which is NAI I am scum?In post 398, Aisa wrote:scumread marci, therefore you must be scum".
- However, both town and scum can have bad justification for their reads, so bad justification is actually approximately NAI.
- You pointed out the bad justification and seemed uninterested in contemplating a world in which this bad justification came from town.
Like I'd never say that pushing a read which is NAI means someone is scum in itself, but the way you are pushing it seems scummy, yes.-
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General thoughts on the game atm are that I'd sooner elim marci than RR. "Gut feeling" sums this up best at the moment but basically there isn't much in RR's posts that pings me negatively, they read like they're kind of clean and unforced. I think the way they've been defending themselves is roughly what I would expect of town!RR.
marci I'm like, the recent wall could be town-indicative. I'm a big believer in trying to read how motivated someone is / activity levels and I think the wall is +town in terms of the motivation it shows. However the rest of their posting is just kinda *shrug* scum could do this.
Meg, Herta and Johnny all need a bit more attention I think. I guess Herta has received some attention, maybe it's just me who hasn't put in the work of actually making my mind on the slot. Anyway - I'm aware I don't police you all, everyone ultimately should do what they feel like doing, but I would recommend not forgetting these slots exist and not just auto-eliminating one of the current wagons come deadline.-
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't understand this.In post 420, JohnnyFarrar wrote:I also don't super like the idea of pushing Marci for that reason, the more I think about it the less.... idk the less sportsman like it is? If Marci's town here I don't wanna punish them for putting forth effort.
Ain't it never happened that Serena Williams shows up to the tennis court and goes "y'know what, I don't really want to play this game because my opponent has put forth effort in training for this match. Gee, that would be really unsportmanlike."
Do you agree with me here and if so does that change your assessment of marci?-
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I don’t really mind the response per se, like sometimes you don’t feel strongly about how AI a post is and that seems fine?In post 430, Herta wrote:
This is an awfully wishy washy answer. Or noncommittal I guess. I was waiting for Aisa to post to see if it was brought up.In post 422, MegAzumarill wrote:Overall its alright I guess. I could see scum!marci making that in defense but I do also think it can be town.
Maybe I'm missing something and that's why it wasn't pointed out?
I’ll give you they seem a bit passive now that I look at the ISO again. Either they think we need more from marci, in which case the post above is a bit non-committal, or they have an opinion on marci but haven’t really stated it. Which one is it Meg?-
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In post 187, Herta wrote:Hiraki likely town. I only felt it before. After that thorough analysis I'm fairly convinced. It's hard to fake that many thoughts on a chunk like that.
why no townread for me?In post 412, Herta wrote:Sorry I'm not feeling this game. Or mafia in general really right now.
I'm not getting the nuances that are being pointed out regarding ausuka by aisa and radical rat. I'm also not getting ausuka's positions on aisa and radical rat fwiw. My eyes are just glazing over at some of these posts. It does appear that aisa and radical rat are not necessarily tied but in the same ballpark? It feels that way anyway and makes me lean toward voting one of them.
I like townreads
Give me townread-
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I didn't peg you for such a heavy NKA user! For what it's worth I agree Hiraki was pushable, I'm not sure why he was the kill and I have just decided I'm not going to let that influence me too much. If you're confused as to why Hiraki was the kill, maybe just let that go?In post 433, Radical Rat wrote:On a reread of D1, I'm mostly just more confused. I don't actually think it would have been that hard for scum to push him today if they'd wanted to. His argument with me was pedantic and just generally bad, and the comment on expecting Juice to flip Town could probably have been spun as a TMI thing were they so inclined.
Other than him, the only people who seemed to think Juice might be Town were Meg and marci. Which is interesting since Meg was on the wagon, while continuing to engage with Juice as though xe were just misguided Town. However, this is also a problem I have sometimes, and have been wrongly called scum for it before, so I'm hesitant to jump on it outright.
I still keep coming back to marci though. Most of their posting is like. Putting on an appearance of content without actually doing much, it's supported by the Hiraki kill, and I just can't find anyone looking worse.
Talk to me about why marci looks worse that everyone else to you?
Aus I can see you townreading. I'm lowkey thinking Meg is town. I'm confused as to why you seem so certain that Herta and Johnny look better.-
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Oww =(In post 439, marcistar wrote:i am uninterested in this game and i wont hide that
being sused for 0 reason is just so tiring
I don't know how much compensation this is for the fact I'm willing to elim you if it comes down to it today, but here's a virtual hug for you: O-
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Maybee let's try and actually coordinate an elimination everyone might be ok with and avoid a last-minute scramble. You might think that's a tall order since people's reads are pretty varied, but it's ok, I have a solution for you!
It's called "listen to me and stop voting or sussing people I townread" xx
On a serious note, sheeping me is usually a bad idea, but also like I'd prefer neither Meg nor RR to go down today.
I can do marci or Johnny. I've just had a look at Herta and I think they do seem a bit townier than Johnny because their tone this game seems different from a scumgame I've seen on their main. Ausuka the mafia gods have sort of got me in a townreading mood again, and also I doubt it really matters because no-one seemed very impressed by my arguments against them earlier this game day, or at least that's what I've been telling myself to avoid having to sort the slot today-
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Wonder in what sense?In post 471, Herta wrote:I guess marci isn't. That makes me wonder about ausuka's marci vote now.-
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FWIW I will be around at least up to ~1 hours before deadline and will hammer whoever. Tis true that Johnny is lacking votes at the moment, but like, we can change that, a few of us have expressed willingness to vote him.
VOTE: JohnnyFarrar
There you go. Let's see what he says. I will go distract myself for a couple hours now but I will have analysis tonight I promise, elim me if I don't!!-
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Things That Strike Me About Herta
a short story
Do they try to sus me in this particular way if they're mafia?In post 361, Herta wrote:I'm not getting town pings from anyone really except maybe marci, maybe ausuka. Maybe not ausuka. I don't know. It's lame but aisa's initial post day 1 still grates on me as does her answer to my question abt why she assumed I'm scum seemed over wrought and deflective or something. I can't recall for sure and can't be arsed to go look rn.
They have to do something like this:
I want to sus Aisa -> but not too much -> let's pretend I hated her very first post
What makes me hesitate a bit on this is
Their read on me is a bit static. It feels like every ~5 days they inevitably surface with some sort of take on me and it is always "this post is not the vibes" and I think that if it a genuine read there should be some probability it became an actual push a bit earlier than they did. They're clearly capable of giving actual reasons for reads e.g. this post.
I'm not sure that Herta scum would feel good about surrendering control in this way.In post 456, Herta wrote:Just a pop in. I'm not feeling the two wagons.
Marci who should I vote other than rad rat?
Don't think I really agree with the reasoning here, but at least they have Takes.In post 468, Herta wrote:Marci and Rad Rat were at e-2 for days. With no movement there I think scum must be other than {marci, Rad Rat, herta}. So that leaves Meg, Johnny, Ausuka, Aisa.
I don't think Ausuka and Aisa are paired, same with meg & ausuka. The Ausuka unvote of Johnny seems bad to put marci on e-1.
I can't seem to get my head around something.
As has been said I do think their posting is a bit easy and like I wouldn't be shocked if they were still scum, but hopefully this gives a flavour of why I think marci/Johnny > Herta atp.-
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Given Meg's post:
UNVOTE: JohnnyFarrar
VOTE: marcistar
They are in my PoE and I think they just shake out the worst after considering Herta. I'm also thinking that if we eliminate someone else I'm not sure who that will be. This seems like a good time to say that marci is a good vote imo.
Sorry marci.
This is E-1.-
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I'm also a Patient/Vanilla.
Can you full claim, Meg?
What does the bolded mean exactly?In post 522, MegAzumarill wrote:Mine isn't the easiest to explain so feel free to ask questions
I am a Technologist.
I am essentially a multitasking JOAT with only investigative abilities flavored as various medical tests (i.e X-rays, etc.) I have 4 in total.
I do not get my results, instead each result is sent to a radiologist in the game, who then has to decipher it (I assume as a night action but it isn't specified to me)
In the interest of there possibly being a backup for Hiraki (especially since scum was double likely to interfere with my results) of some kind I won't out targets at the moment so I can confirm the role at least of them.
Ausuka you're up next.-
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I agree with this assessment.In post 529, Ausuka wrote:ok well meg is probably town I guess
Theoretically this could just be cop Vs 2 goons or something but I don't think Ircher would put effort into that and I'm not convinced meg would do this as scum either
So fmpov it's aisa/Herta, Johnny/Herta or aisa/Johnny, in reverse order of probability
I guess the amount of town power that has been claimed so far seems roughly balanced. Meg + Hiraki's abilities combined sound like a nerfed investigative, but I guess that if Meg can submit more than one action a night that might balance this. Or it could be Hiraki had some additional ability we're not aware of.
In post 332, MegAzumarill wrote:
you don't sayIn post 322, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Radiologist is a bad thing to lose I bet
My bet would be it was something reminiscent of a cop*Resists urge to do own interpretation of post*
Can you explain what you were thinking here briefly?-
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Herta:
What was this?In post 416, Herta wrote:I'm paying an intense grand of minesweeper. Thought I'd take a break and catch my breath.
In post 468, Herta wrote:Marci and Rad Rat were at e-2 for days. With no movement there I think scum must be other than {marci, Rad Rat, herta}. So that leaves Meg, Johnny, Ausuka, Aisa.
I don't think Ausuka and Aisa are paired, same with meg & ausuka.The Ausuka unvote of Johnny seems bad to put marci on e-1.
I can't seem to get my head around something.(Somewhere in between those two posts someone explained Ausuka had not put marci on e-1.) Can you explain why you went from "Ausuka putting marci on e-1 seems bad" to "Ausuka putting marci on e-2 makes me wonder?"
Johnny:
You didn't really answer the question and seeing you commit to a read even vaguely would be really helpful.In post 385, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
Hey man, if i'm here I'm motivated. If you mean you want me to lead a wagon or something that's prolly not gonna happen, I tend to play psychology more than mafia and people don't like cases based on vibes. I try to be clear with who I vote and why tho.In post 348, Aisa wrote:VOTE: JohnnyFarrar
It would really help if you could state one read with some motivation behind it. I know you posted this catch-up post, I'm looking for one consolidated stance.
Ausuka:
What was the motivation behind this post?In post 333, Ausuka wrote:confession; i'm stupid and don't know what a radiologist is so i have no idea what this means role wise
[...]
Who do you think was pushing that wagon?In post 407, Ausuka wrote:
Juice was an easy push for scum to make because xe acted in such a silly way. I think there were definitely scum pushing that wagonIn post 406, Radical Rat wrote:[...]-
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Johnny, I'm afraid you've committed a brutal offence. May the ire of the Great Rabbit rain upon you by making it so that rabbits burrow in your garden if you have one, or, uh... making you have a nightmare about rabbits burrowing in your garden if you don't?
In post 541, Aisa wrote: Johnny:
You didn't really answer the question and seeing you commit to a read even vaguely would be really helpful.In post 385, JohnnyFarrar wrote:
Hey man, if i'm here I'm motivated. If you mean you want me to lead a wagon or something that's prolly not gonna happen, I tend to play psychology more than mafia and people don't like cases based on vibes. I try to be clear with who I vote and why tho.In post 348, Aisa wrote:VOTE: JohnnyFarrar
It would really help if you could state one read with some motivation behind it. I know you posted this catch-up post, I'm looking for one consolidated stance.In post 545, JohnnyFarrar wrote:So if i'm reading this right Meg's power is nothing without someone else to interpret?-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2838
- Joined: December 19, 2013
- Pronoun: she/her, they/them
- Location: Europe
Eep, maybe I'm just dense, but I am still not sure if minesweeper is supposed to be a metaphor for something or if you were literally playing minesweeper the logic game?In post 542, Herta wrote:1. I got caught up in a game of minesweeper and needed ot rest from it.
Ok. My point was2. It looked like Ausuka waited until someone unvoted marci to vote marci. That led me to thinking marci and ausuka might be partnered, and ausuka was trying to distance a bit.
First you said "I dislike Ausuka putting marci at E-1"
then it was pointed out that marci was not at E-1, and you said "I dislike Ausuka waiting for marci not to be at E-1 to vote there".
That's not always a problem, but the change of opinion was what I was hoping you would comment on :3
...Being the only clear in 5p elo is the spice of life?In post 544, MegAzumarill wrote:Nightmare scenario for me, only clear
I'm leaning towards one of herta/johnny rather than ausuka/aisa
Spoiler: fun
Who would you vote between Herta and Johnny, Meg?-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2838
- Joined: December 19, 2013
- Pronoun: she/her, they/them
- Location: Europe
I actually have almost exactly the same take as Meg! I like Johnny's postingwhenhe is posting
I do think it's worrying that he keeps ignoring my question. My one past experience with town!him (which to be fair didn't last very long) was that he could sometimes miss a question but if nagged aggressively enough he'd eventually give you a reply. It's a bit dissatisfying this is all I have to go against him. Nothing in his play feelsincompatiblewith being town, so I feel like all I can gauge is if this activity pattern is more scum-like.
Actually writing that out makes me think that it probably is. I feel like the marci elimination yesterday is a very recent reminder that not answering questions is not an ironclad scumtell, but maybe taking the chance is the right thing to do here :'(-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2838
- Joined: December 19, 2013
- Pronoun: she/her, they/them
- Location: Europe
Ah, I actually want to mention this: maybe we should worry about Johnny going down a little too easily here? What do people think scum is likely to want in this gamestate? If scum are the right people they actually don't need to effort very hard here and have this in the bag.
Wait for it...
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Yes, I'm here to discuss Meg possibly being the mastermind behind it all xx-
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Aisa she/her, they/themMafia Scumshe/her, they/them
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 2838
- Joined: December 19, 2013
- Pronoun: she/her, they/them
- Location: Europe