Micro 1070 | a micro normal | Endgame

[Alisae]

VOTE: Myko
Holy what a Fossil!
Hello! I never thought I would play a game with ya!

[Alisae]

VOTE: Myko
Holy what a Fossil!
Hello! I never thought I would play a game with ya!

Hiya Lisa, long time no see.

There's a mafiascum meet in ~2 months and I thought I'd see if I remembered how this game was played.

TBH I'm joining games again in prep for Team Mafia. Trying to get back into the swing of things before then.
Looking forward to playing with you!

[Alisae]

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

[Alisae]

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

FACTS

Why is that? Not this game seems to imply that you were recently mafia.

[Alisae]

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

FACTS

Why is that? Not this game seems to imply that you were recently mafia.

lmao yeah I was and had 2 original partners rep out, and that game was stressful, cause what do you really do in that situation? then green pm here? LETS FREAKING GOOOOOO

I used to get a lot of wolf teammates that were basically NPCs that's super relatable. It's super stressful cause in that situation one feels like Atlas carrying the earth. I don't even know how I won one of those games but those games are usually really hard to win as a wolf.

Do you like playing villager more than wolf?

[Alisae]

npc is a non-playable character. I use to to describe players who have no desire to play wolf or the game and are just going to do whatever it is they want to do. I def prefer town > wolf but I think it's easy to get excited about playing wolf if I have exciting teammates. I've gotten some pretty exciting rands back in the day.

Anyway this was productive.

[Alisae]

I have no desire to lead, but did try to skip the silly stages of the game

Ahh good attempt, probably should've picked literally anyone else cause picking me will get us no where lol

It got me post 26 from you, which was nice and

serious

.

SERIOUS? oh no!!!! I've failed, I'm not a serious person!!!

You sound like a toon from Who Framed Rodger Rabbit.

[Alisae]

I never seen it as a kid. I watched it recently and it was fairly mediocre. I mean it is a kids movie

[Alisae]

Also, iirc Dat would love to get away with a post like that as scum.

Have you played with Datisi? Me personally I don't know what a wolf!Datisi looks like. Never played against it.

[Alisae]

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

FACTS

Why is that? Not this game seems to imply that you were recently mafia.

Does having recently been Mafia have any bearing on the likelihood of someone being Mafia here?

Answer: no, it does not.

VOTE: Alisae, defend the honor of Roger Rabbit!

That's not really why I went through that line of questioning?
Like yes, having been mafia recently does not have any bearing on the likelihood if them being mafia here. I'm trying to get a read on what alignment this excitement comes from and if it seems fake or not.

[Alisae]

I will say Roger Rabbit has a hot wife though like GOD DAMN.
I wish someone saw value in me like that just because they think I'm funny.

[Alisae]

I like Wavelength so far. I like his read on Aureal and I like he was the first one to mention it, I kind of thought that the post from Aureal seemed pretty disingenuous.

[Alisae]

It seems pretty normal to be excited for the start of a game, so I'm not sure why it drew such scrutiny. I didn't really see the connection to the later posts without your explanation but I guess this is a thing you could do, in which case what did it tell you?

It's not so much as it drawing scrutiny as much as it is trying to find out why it happens. I find that players who don't like randing wolf probably aren't going to show any excitement about that. I think it would just be easier to show you what I was doing?

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

I think this observation is fine. It's hard to attempt to get an alignment from said posting so far so I thought let's post this observation and see if they bite

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

FACTS

They bite but this response doesn't really give me much to go off. In fact I feel like they were trying to answer me with as little as possible so I post this

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

FACTS

Why is that? Not this game seems to imply that you were recently mafia.

I was hoping for a bit more so I wanted to poke and dig into it a bit more. Maybe they're excited because they're a villager or they're trying a wolf trying to be excited as like a cover.

Andante you seem really excited to play mafia!

FACTS

Why is that? Not this game seems to imply that you were recently mafia.

lmao yeah I was and had 2 original partners rep out, and that game was stressful, cause what do you really do in that situation? then green pm here? LETS FREAKING GOOOOOO

I empathize with this but I understand this likely isn't super alignment indicative. The excitement I want to say feels real. Either way I definitely empathize with this as I too find playing villager to be super relaxing, especially after a stressful wolf game, so I want to believe they're a villager but tbh I don't exactly have any good reason to have any read on them atm.

I think if they're a wolf they're likely partnered with someone who they think is likely to play the game?

[Alisae]

If what I was doing is similar to your play how come you couldn't identify it? I don't think it should be that hard to pick up on.

I watched it recently and while I think there are things that are good about it, I think it's end was pretty bad and was a complete miss. It's probably isn't for me.

[Alisae]

also I'm pretty sure that movie is a kids movie

[Alisae]

but I also think Aureal is town.

Why? I'm skeptical so far

[Alisae]

I'm going to attempt to play D1 slowly. I suspect I'll fail at that.

I feel like if I just lurked and did nothing nothing would get done so I feel like I have agency to post

[Alisae]

I imagine this game is going to be most active during the times I'm asleep

[Alisae]

I did not consider that perspective. I saw their vote on me and I wanted to poke it. My first initial impression of it being disingenuous is because I saw the first 2 lines, saw the vote, and thought they must be related. Didn't seem like they were trying to figure out my motivation.

[Alisae]

I think klick is very unlikely to be mafia.

Only real town read so far.

why?

[Alisae]

I don't think that 61 comes from his as scum, for either possible alignment for Aureal.

There is also an attention to detail in his reading of Aureal's posts that reveals intent to sort.

Can you paint me a better picture here. I'm missing how you got this conclusion.

I feel like if Klick is a wolf that could be pretty easy to fake, I imagine the process is just him pointing out what he sees.

[Alisae]

This isn't me saying Klick is a wolf, I think Klick is a read best read when they've developed a body of work and comparing that body of work to the context that is the game.
It's pretty easy for them to be townie pretty early on and I imagine if they're wolf they're able to fake that.

[Alisae]

You'll have to get it from my insistence that Aureal is the one we'd want to vote. Aureal would be playing more or less the same way regardless of what else had happened this game, they are going through the motions of their normal game without actually "playing" their normal game.

That describes scum to me.

What is this based off of? Experience?

[Alisae]

You'll have to get it from my insistence that Aureal is the one we'd want to vote. Aureal would be playing more or less the same way regardless of what else had happened this game, they are going through the motions of their normal game without actually "playing" their normal game.

That describes scum to me.

What is this based off of? Experience?

I'm not sure I understand your question.

I'm reading that she's going through the motions. That she's just playing how it always goes. That's in her posts.

I think if you are town you don't have to do that, you just read the posts and play. As scum you have to play as you always do.

So she's scum. I'm not quite sure where experience comes into this.

Its 7am I'm slightly tired but I read your post and it read like you were expressing a meta read because you referred to their "normal" game without playing their "normal" game which gave the impression you knew what their "normal game" looked like. I could probably communicate this better but I plan on going to bedge soon

[Alisae]

I like Wavelength so far. I like his read on Aureal and I like he was the first one to mention it, I kind of thought that the post from Aureal seemed pretty disingenuous.

So where's that Aureal vote, Lisa?

Didn't place it there, wanted to wait for a response. We're still mid dialogue, 54 I would like a response to before I place a vote. Is there a reason why I would want to put it in hammer range right now? I don't think I need to use my vote to add to the pressure at the moment.

[Alisae]

huh, I hadn't thought about that.

Datisi can be my page one town read.

what

why

Also, iirc Dat would love to get away with a post like that as scum.

with a post like what. 9? in what universe is that a post that is exciting or cheeky for scumtisi to make?

Is there some reason u didn’t poke Ari here?

[Alisae]

From what I remember you like to poke @ people who have a read on your slot and Ari also got a tr from ur post apparently. I cant help but notice u left her out

[Alisae]

hello

VOTE: alisae

good night

dats did you roll town finally ?

I thought this was a tr

[Alisae]

I need sleep I think but I want to stick around for a couple minutes to see if myko continues their exchange w/ Datisi

[Alisae]

I feel like the first post Ari made I feel like there’s an expectation for some kind of response but I don’t know the relationship between u 2 aside from probably besties.

[Alisae]

I feel like the first post Ari made I feel like there’s an expectation for some kind of response but I don’t know the relationship between u 2 aside from probably besties.

Like i know some players who do something similar actually expect responses and can form reads based off of those responses

[Alisae]

If what I was doing is similar to your play how come you couldn't identify it? I don't think it should be that hard to pick up on.

This seems to miss the point. Having a similarity in style doesn't give me insight into your thoughts on what to question. I'll try to be more aware of it now but the followup talk about Mafia teammates hadn't registered as an attempt to sort linked to the question about having been Mafia recently, just early game chitchat. Why do you think it should be that clear, when you don't present your thought process until I said something? You didn't even come to any conclusion.

Ig? Maybe I just see what I’m doing and because I know what’s going on it’s just obv to me.

[Alisae]

Andante can you try being transparent?
Why do you like 128
Why do you dislike Klick
What is your read on Myko

Your reaction doesn’t really make any sense and I can’t really parse through it but I don’t think you’re an elim right now so why is it all suddenly doomed? If ur town shouldn’t u be able to show us that?

[Alisae]

I really don’t get the tantrum and I don’t really see how these votes are the end of the world if you’re a villager. Like I feel like you should still be able to play and try to generate something that’s useful or helpful even after death?

[Alisae]

Lisa. 30+ posts, you have a page of your own by now. And it's just questions, why are you still sticking to the vote you made in your first post?

Where's my Aureal vote?

- I play D1s slowly. Let me play my game.
- Their responses to me I think are fine.
- you feel like a wolf pushing a villager so I’m proceeding with caution. Your posting I feel like is mostly wolf agenda and I don’t feel like it comes from a place of you wanting to be right.

Do you have other reads?

[Alisae]

Andante can you try being transparent?
Why do you like 128
Why do you dislike Klick
What is your read on Myko

Your reaction doesn’t really make any sense and I can’t really parse through it but I don’t think you’re an elim right now so why is it all suddenly doomed? If ur town shouldn’t u be able to show us that?

[Alisae]

Transparent means showing your thought processes not just "I TOWNLEAN SOMEONE"
Why do you have said reads.

What's your datisi read?
why does myko seem cool? What does cool even mean?

[Alisae]

ah yes that definition of transparent. Well we're only 150 posts into the game, I don't have anything really strong guiding my thoughts, thus no essays yet. If people want to stop voting me, and ignore me for a bit, yall will naturally get my essays

Okay but like the reason you have reads have to had come from somewhere right? Like, there had to been SOME thought process behind it even if it's just "gut" or "I got this read from this post I thought this post was townie"

datisi hasn't done anything, no read

i don't think you're actually trying to read me

How do we go from Datisi not feeling like they want to solve you to Datisi having no read.

myko is chilling, seems to have town's best interest in mind right now, thus he's cool

What makes you think Myko has the town's best interest in mind? Aren't they pushing town if you townread Aureal?

I really don't see how you think I'd have strong reads at this point in the game, like, you're the main person I have talked to lol also my reads are very likely gonna be shit when I do have them, maybe I just flip them upside down and call it a day... anyways, I'll stop distracting yall, just pretend I'm not here. k bye

I'm not asking for strong reads. My early d1 reads are shit too but we gotta start from SOMEWHERE. We don't just arrive to having amazing killer reads.

[Alisae]

Like I empathize with "ignore me so I can do my thing." I'm literally known for hardlurking parts of the game while I just do my own thing until I'm ready to step into the game. But at least show me that you're thinking about the game with at least some nuisance/depth.

[Alisae]

- I play D1s slowly. Let me play my game.

Not how this game works. You don't like how I play mine either.

And I think I'm not the only one who dislike you being slow. There's nothing to go off if mosts posts of you end in a question mark. We don't even have your vote to see where you stand. One day you might say Aureal seems disingenuous but you need more questions.

Or we could have someone seeming "disingenuous" sitting at E-1 while Herta, who's second post is a promise that he's going to participate, is going to have to navigate the situation where he ends up on the E-1 wagon. I'd like to see lurkerscum deal with that. Answers without there even being questions, because actions speak louder than words.

So I'd like to see some action from you as well.

That does sound like it would make Herta quite readable. Okay I like this more than your arguments for Aureal actually being a wolf. I read your arguments and I just think "Myko would probably be making this arguments if he was a wolf."

And look I empathize with you here. You want some content, ok, I'll throw you a bone. First let me complain about how if you just read into what alignment my playstyle comes from instead of what wolves actually do and determining if I am doing that, you are probably going to struggle. So much so that whatever read you have on me, it's likely that the opposite is likely to be what you're actually dealing with!

My early d1 reads are shit too but we gotta start from SOMEWHERE.

Do share.

Yes yes the content

I think Aureal's posts are getting better. 115 I'm super happy with and in light of that I feel like their responses to me have been likely what a villager would do? I thinks the post is fine and I buy it.
I don't mind breaking down what I see w/ 128

So on page three you repeatedly urge people to vote me without giving any reasoning, then finally you bring this out. This was actually in response to you being asked about Andante, so firstly it's ducking a question because it doesn't follow that my being scum would make Andante town.

I like them holding you accountable here. In fact a question I want to ask you is why are you giving Ari this response?

Not sure I'm helping anyone if I answer this. For one, it's 3 pages in and Andante is probably the person I feel most confident I can read anyway, so I might as well wait till I'm not leaning one way or another from a handful of posts. There's no pressing need to answer, Andante isn't even being voted so I imagine you all agree she's pretty town. I also don't have to tell the scum who's the obvious town.

That's a lot of words to say that I don't like you and Klick asking about a townread 3 pages in. Go find some baddies. May I suggest Aureal?

Why do you feel like your Andante read wouldn't be helpful? I get everything else but I imagine these processes also make it easier for others to work with you so why not post them?
I've never encountered someone saying "I don't want to tell wolves who obvtown is" why are you saying that?

anyway back to the post in question

Secondly, you're just making an assertion about my play based on your own opinion and making a fallacious appeal to authority. Are you really surprised people thought you were meta reading me after that post? That's exactly what that post looks like to me, except I know it isn't because I know we've never played together before.

This I don't care for, could come from any alignment. Could be a villager whom wants to hold you accountable for faking confidence or could be a wolf who is using it against you.

What is in my posts is a caution against blindly scumreading me because you don't like the way I dealt with something in early game. And the criticism here seems especially bad faith because you, so far as I can tell, are scumreading me for failing to draw a connection between a sequence of posts. In other words, for reading posts and playing based off what I saw. You're basically just saying "git gud or else scum" to me here.

I think this is fine because if they're a villager they see you and they are probably thinking that you don't care to understand them or see eye to eye. reading it more now it's probs likely to come from either alignment.

This seems a bit shallow. I thought town would obviously not quickhammer except possibly by accident when I first came back to playing. 1068 proved me wrong, not only was Enchant's hammer town but Menalque as the fourth vote egging Enchant on to hammer was also town. Do you feel you know enough about everyone here to know they wouldn't do that as town?

I like this line of questioning.

ya lmao except for like the first point this post seems null.
Let's see if my opinion changes with 151

I'm sorry, are you seriously trying to argue that town should not scumhunt among people who are voting for them??? I think that's often the most natural thing to do- who else is going to have a better perspective on what's accurate about arguments about me than me?

I agree I think it's easier to try to understand if the people who have fos' on your slot are coming in good faith or not.

You're trying to discredit my reasoning by waving omgus around. That's not a great sign. And thanks for confirming that you're appealing to your own authority on how I should play, that's exactly what I'm taking issue with. You don't have that authority.

I like the 2nd bit but the first bit can probs come from any alignment and honestly so does this.

This is kind of word salady but I'm trying to parse. You're right that a townread on Andante has nothing to do with my vote so I'm not sure why you're throwing that line out there like it's some shady thing you saw me doing.

I do see now that you explained earlier that you didn't want to explain yet, but the segue into that post is still weird because it's trying to draw a link between the read on Andante which you didn't want to discuss and your read on me. Is your read on Andante related to me?

Also, Andante has a wagon going now, so are you starting to feel more inclined to share your reasoning?

I want to say I see signs of villager thinking here. I like the line of questioning and bringing it back to Andante.

Anyway I want to say Aureal is a villager. Posts still aren't as good as I thought they were but like I see fine I wanna let em cook.

I think your push on them could easily be wolf!agenda, I like Aureal more than I like you but I like this concept of seeing what Herta does in this position, I think that is something that is likely to come from town.

Andante I would like to try to understand. I don't get why they're reacting the way they are, I don't get why they have the stances they have. I don't see how her current stances come from a wolf they seem fucking weird but I don't understand anything that's going on and I don't understand how we get from excitement to "SLOTS DOOMED VOTE ME OUT BEFORE I CARE"

Wavelength and Klick seem fine so far.

Myko I think if you address some of my concerns. I think if you can address some of the things I see with them as well as some of my concerns with you then I'll vote Aureal.

[Alisae]

It's completely different from here where she goes into a vote on me without talking about me at all till the vote, then coming up with logical reasons from the posts where I accuse her without actually calling out why I'm stupid to even think those reasons could apply to her here. She's not calling out the evidence, but calls out that I don't talk about andante when asked and instead talk about her.

VOTE: aureal

[Alisae]

nah

[Alisae]

Ur a villager.
If that's what you want then I won't stop you unless I feel like you do something that's super weird.
You'll figure it out

[Alisae]

Mykonian seems productive and I'm fine seeing where it goes. Let him cook
I think I am doing the best thing I can do in the current gamestate so you do you.

[Alisae]

I'll figure it out faster if you can convince me you believe Aureal has any chance of being scum here, much less enough of one to vote right now

I think my motion creates for a more readable gamestate

[Alisae]

I don't want you to vote Aureal

[Alisae]

I want more content

[Alisae]

I think this gamestate is pretty well readable already

I know but I want more developments

[Alisae]

Meh this doesn't go anywhere immediately and I should really sleep

I'm obviously not as confident about you as I'm projecting but I'm really not feeling anywhere near as comfortable about you as I'd like to feel atm and I have several other townreads

where are you at

[Alisae]

I don't have any read on Datisi or Ari

[Alisae]

No read on Herta either, can't wait to see what they do next

[Alisae]

I'll be pretty annoyed if day ends because some schmuck forgot how to claim intent.
After a bit of critical thinking I have plans. Truth is I have no idea what if what I am thinking is a good idea but I think it's fine? It might be better to keep things ambiguous but I'm sure someone informed on the matter might also be able to reach similar conclusions?

[Alisae]

do I even have the right to be annoyed when I'm putting someone in hammer range

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

Alisae: did you actually vote me because you think myko made a decent point, or did you just decide to go along with the idea that it's going to give you info on Herta?

Both.
combine me liking myko's point and combine that w/ attempting to get info on Herta and the idea of sheeping seems appealing

[Alisae]

Much turmoil over if to hold off or to just shoot
I'm just going to shoot.

Curious as to who is informed of having my exact rolecard. I've done

A LOT

of thinking about this as well as what I think the setup could look like and I feel like it could be productive to massclaim who has this information. I am very curious to see who is willing to come out with it and I think I can find wolves based on the number of people who claim to have this information

[Alisae]

I suspect there are more than 3 people with my exact rolecard

[Alisae]

No I thought "wow he did the meta for it wow it looks like he's scumhunting and trying to solve your slot. Sounds like they believe this read they have."
It's pretty shallow.

I don't think comparing Andante to your wagon is fair. Herta is pure RVS while Wavelength and Myko came to that conclusion on their own. My impression of the Andante wagon was it was just 3 people who mutually agreed to vote there. Klick is town, I think Datisi is pushing a read, and I don't really know what Ari is doing.

[Alisae]

I'm unclear what the last sentence is referencing.

my own read

[Alisae]

What makes you certain Herta's vote was RVS?

ok ig pure rvs is kinda wrong. it was during that phase of the game and a lot has happened so it's more so they have to catch up so they have a lot of agency to add something new to the game

[Alisae]

Much turmoil over if to hold off or to just shoot
I'm just going to shoot.

Curious as to who is informed of having my exact rolecard. I've done

A LOT

of thinking about this as well as what I think the setup could look like and I feel like it could be productive to massclaim who has this information. I am very curious to see who is willing to come out with it and I think I can find wolves based on the number of people who claim to have this information

Prior to you making this post, the people who were informed of your role card - were they informed that your role card existed in the game, or were they informed that you, in particular, had the role that you have?

(I am not informed)

anyone who can perform the type of action I can perform has my exact role card.

[Alisae]

Oh. I misunderstood your post then.

So you have a role, and you were informed that there are multiple people with your role?

If that is the case, then from where I am sitting it now makes much less sense to confirm/deny, and I regret having done so

I think it’s +ev

[Alisae]

Especially because the game is a micro, both wolves are likely to have my role even if it is implied that they are/aren’t the same alignment (just makes sense as a designer perspective), and setup was advertised as complex

[Alisae]

I probably would not consider this play if the game is a mini?
The game being a micro genuinely makes me think this is a good idea. Put a lot of thought into how many villagers I think have my role and I want to see what I think compared to what happens

[Alisae]

I think due to the game being a micro, it is a lot more predictable in setup design in a way that a mini can’t be

[Alisae]

Like I think I can put the whole pl into 2 separate groups based off of what happens

[Alisae]

If you don’t believe me, someone smarter in ev calculation can do the math. I would do it under the assumption at least 4-5 players in the game have my role.

[Alisae]

I’ll claim in full just to make things easier
Informed JOAT w/ w messenger shots and 2 fruit vendor shots.
I’m informed that if someone can perform a misc action, they have my role. So not only is this the JOAT shots but ALSO they are informed.
It’s the kind of role one looks at in this context and can easily go “yep, both wolves have this role” and I think writing said conclusion off entirely because my pm states that just because many exist with my role but it’s not necessary the same alignment is naive. Just considering the pov of a designer here and I can see someone wanting to design a game of this nature and call it complex.

[Alisae]

this feels like outguessing the mod, and considering you spelled out what you are looking for wrt wolves in the massclaim - a complete waste of time.

You’ve designed so many normals so I’m just going to vote you for this
VOTE: Datisi

Doesn’t matter if I spelled out what I’m looking for, they can’t hide.

[Alisae]

That is a completely just shit take Datisi

[Alisae]

Does not come from u if ur a villager

[Alisae]

Glad to see Datisi is a wolf lmfao

[Alisae]

That is the most completely brain off let’s discredit Ali take I can think off and u should know better

[Alisae]

Like actually a response like that actually just lacks critical thinking

[Alisae]

It’s a micro, a role like this exists.
Why?

But instead of thinking about they why let’s not think about why things are and not even bother

Fucking lol

[Alisae]

I’m pretty hung up on this I genuinely think this is +ev

[Alisae]

One of the most intricate setup designs who understands that generally speaking roles have purposes in setups is telling me not to out guess the mod when I have a pm like this?

Ya no hang it w/ fire

[Alisae]

I don't know about DkKoba, I think T-bone did NRG stuff way back when. There were a couple in that group which were old enough that they remembered people doing shenanigans with day 1 massclaims to see where it went. It tended to be at least a theme that was thought about. Other breaking mechanics with combo's are a bit easier to spot and MS tends to avoid them. I'd trust them to not pass a game that can be broken day 1 already with a massclaim. But in a small game, you are right, that moment comes a lot sooner. This is not a helpful topic today.

Most situations I would agree. Most normals it's generally a bad idea to go through a d1 massclaim.

I do not think a d1 massclaim of informed/not informed breaks the game but just makes it simpler and I also think given my expectations I can reasonably predict what is going on based off of what happens. I want to align who decides to also come out with as well with my reads and expectations.

I don't expect there to be broken combos, but I expect this to help us find scum based off of what ends up happening as well as what has already happened dayplay wise.

I genuinely believe this helps us narrow down who could possibly be wolves based on how they react to the play.

[Alisae]

alright, let's dance

VOTE: alisae

i have designed many normals, and i am notorious for "please don't setup spec, this is a datisi game, god knows what he put in it" - i know mods throw curveballs that you cannot reasonably expect. which is exactly the mindset from which i'm approaching this.

nothing about your role seems "both wolves need to have this role". it's a nothingburger role. and IF, EVEN IF you are correct that all wolves have that role (which you don't necessarily have to be correct about, but for the sake of argument) - what sense does it make that wolves are just gonna claim that role?? "they can't hide" they can just not claim it???

like. if you had gone "btw guys does anyone else have role xyz" and then once people claimed or not claimed, you went "ackchually, i think scum is within people that have this role", i could buy it as a thought process.

but you're telling me that i'm supposed to look at you saying "i have a mystery role, which like i'm totally sure all wolves also have, and also can we claim who all has this role now that i've said it because i think wolves are gonna be honest about their roles" and NOT think it's bullshit?

Okay but I like to think even you do things make sense and have intent behind them, even if that intent is just wine but this is a normal where things ought to be reasonably balanced.

If they don't claim they will be found.
If they do claim, they will be found.
There is no hiding and all one needs to do is ponder how many villagers one expects to share my role.

If I am a designer of a normal and I had a VILLAGER my specific rolecard, I am going to think that the whole setup was designed around it and that wolves have it.

I genuinely don't believe you are arguing the things you're arguing

[Alisae]

roles have purposes in setups

the person who sometimes uses roles whose sole purpose is to fuck with the players is telling you to not outguess the mod? amazing. incredible. who would've thought.

Not everyone is going to design games with this intent. I genuinely don't see how you think this is not productive.

[Alisae]

If they don't claim they will be found.
If they do claim, they will be found.

then what the fuck is the point of claiming if they can either true claim or fake claim and be found

I'm trying to split the pl into 2 seperate groups of informed and uninformed. I believe I can figure out which group contains exactly how many wolves based on how many claim to be in the informed group. I expect exactly 2-3 villagers to have my role and I think this would make sense. I tried to look at this from the designers pov on how many townies I would give this role to and I expect 2-3 town has it. I think if the mod is designing the game around both wolves having said role, the designer is going to want to play to this wine by giving this role to a good amount of townies but not all of them.

[Alisae]

roles have purposes in setups

the person who sometimes uses roles whose sole purpose is to fuck with the players is telling you to not outguess the mod? amazing. incredible. who would've thought.

Not everyone is going to design games with this intent. I genuinely don't see how you think this is not productive.

1) some will, and we don't know what kind of designer our mod is
2) do you still wanna accuse me of faking my own mindset?

I'm just saying what I would do and I am acting upon it. I've thought about and made predictions on what the setup looks like and I want to compare that to what actually happens,

what even is the point of this 2nd part btw? Why the fuck would I convince you you're a wolf. Game is about convincing the other people that you're a wolf. Convincing you you're a wolf does nothing. I think you're shitting on me because it makes sense for a wolf to want to do so in this situation and I feel like you're not trying to critically think about things.

[Alisae]

okay

i'm not informed

there, i can't be a wolf, i'm conftown now

What kind of fucking egregious impression do you have of me to think that I think wolves won't claim informed and they're automatically cleared if they don't???
You're labelling me in bad faith here

[Alisae]

I would 100% expect a wolf who knows my role to try to shut me down here. I'm not looking for who doesn't claim, I am looking for who DOES claim as well as HOW MANY people claim. You're painting me in a bad light here and this push is completely in bad faith here.

I actually would prefer it if wolves did not claim to be informed because I think I will be able to spot that based off of what actually happens

[Alisae]

i am trying to critically think about things. but unless you explain to me why scum would or wouldn't have the role you claimed, without it being the vague ~oooh mod wouldn't put this in game~ i'm gonna think you're making it up

ANOTHER PLAYER IN THE GAME CAN LITERALLY CONFIRM THAT I'M TELLING THE TRUTH

[Alisae]

What the FUCK DATISI

[Alisae]

i mean, unless you can accurately guess how many townies have the role AND how many wolves have that role, there is no fucking point

I can and you should be able too as well

[Alisae]

It's not that hard if you think about it!

[Alisae]

That's literally my entire point.
I have given LOTS of thought as to how many townies AND WOLVES have this role.
So I want to push through massclaim of informed y/n and see what happens

[Alisae]

I feel like you're don't want to think about it!

[Alisae]

i think the "x number of townies and y number of scum are gonna have this role because i can read the mod's mind" is the part that's made up

If there are 2 wolves, then how many town can we expect to share the role?
1? Nah, I think that's too little.
2? I think 2 would be the bare minimum.
3? Sounds about right
4? A little bit too much
5? Way too much but possible if both are wolves
6? you're crazy

[Alisae]

This isn't me saying "I can read the mod's mind"
this is an

EDUCATED GUESS

[Alisae]

There are other reasons why I think both wolves have my role but I think mentioning these are SUPER anti-town so I'm going to not but I think one can use their head and deduce what this is without me saying it!

[Alisae]

This isn't me saying "I can read the mod's mind"
this is an

EDUCATED GUESS

I would say the key thing to remember here is that this game is normal and there must be VTs and I would think that the # of VTs balances out the # of players who have my role

[Alisae]

like a lot of my educated guess comes from me trying to think "ok, so how many players are not informed vs how many are out of 7 villager roles"

Remember, this is a game that was advertised as COMPLEX

[Alisae]

COMPLEX BTW

[Alisae]

Like I actually cannot see how both wolves don't have my role.
If I'm designing this game and I tell a player "hey, many players in your game have 2 fruit vendor shots and 2 messenger shots" in a GOD FORSAKEN MICRO, I'm putting 2 wolves into the setup with that role.

[Alisae]

Any point HONESTLY
it should be self-evident if we do massclaim informed y/n

[Alisae]

I think you are both town and we should just flip herta and if he is mafia we should flip mykonian

How is Datisi town?

[Alisae]

also i have no idea what the mech thing you are saying means because um mech hurt brain

If you haven't tried to think of cool ideas for normals you wouldn't get it. I've played around in the past with a normal that was built around informed roles. Datisi has also designed pretty intricate micros normals.
I think a role like mine existing in the game is more evident of "giving this role to wolves and some townies sounds like it would make for a fun micro idea" then "I'm going to give this role to a small # of townies just to fuck with their head" cause if anything the ladder sounds less balanced and also easier to identify than the former and as such it would be exposed during massclaim

[Alisae]

If nothing happens in 5 days we are likely going to lynch Herta, so you are happily following the flow of the game, but I'm not sure which of his two posts you got your read from.

LISA: I keep pressing submit and I can't post.

don't say l word. Say Eliminate or Lim.
Sorry for drowning you Datisi got me riled up.

[Alisae]

ali my read on your mech is that i dont think you are likely to fake it as scum and i dont think dats is likely to argue with it as scum. i also am not great at mech.

Why do you struggle with mech?

[Alisae]

A lot of player's struggle with mech so I get it, idunno, maybe I could give a pointer or two about mech if I try to understand it?
I also get u said you were sick a bit ago. I hope your recovery is going well.

[Alisae]

and 1 sec, alisae? why did you claim? it's day 1, game just started

I softed a bunch and thought might as well claim in full to make it easier for those who don't understand to be able to understand.
I feel like the only reason why my role exists is because wolves both have my role and I feel like now that the game has developed a little bit, let's maybe introduce this part of the puzzle and see what happens next.

[Alisae]

ali my read on your mech is that i dont think you are likely to fake it as scum and i dont think dats is likely to argue with it as scum. i also am not great at mech.

The only reason why I disagree is I think if Datisi is a wolf they want to keep things as ambiguous as possible. Like, the very specific read I have here is that Datisi knows what I am suggesting is pro-town and as such they feel the need to make a move.

A lot of the arguments are just trying to discredit me while not mention the actual arguments for why this is anti-town.
Like they claimed not informed so they're going along with it but they're also trying to push me because I'm calling them out on it.

[Alisae]

making town get lost in meaningless mechanical discussion that goes nowhere is one of scumtisi's favourite past times and i would probably entertain your ideas if i were scum here

no
not vs me
and not with what you've posted so far

also this isn't meaningless and this doesn't get us nowhere

[Alisae]

I would not be suggesting this play if I thought it was meaningless and got us nowhere

[Alisae]

I think at worst scum!Datisi is calling this meaningless and gets it nowhere to play to an audience.
At best, town!Datisi does not want to practice critical thinking.

[Alisae]

okay

i'm not informed

there, i can't be a wolf, i'm conftown now

this with all of the context that surrounds it I think comes from a wolf btw I think if they're a wolf they're lying
If I was a wolf in Datisi's position I would probably lie too so I'm just saying it because it's what they're do and it lines up with what they're trying to do

WHILE ALSO GOING ALONG WITH IT

[Alisae]

whatever

i still don't think you're town but let's see what the rest of the players think first

VOTE: herta

LOL

[Alisae]

SDIPKHGTYF;LSHDJYG'Zas
]LO
'
OL
'S;

]

LOL

[Alisae]

I am never wrong on this read can we just kill Datisi?

[Alisae]

If Datisi is a wolf Herta is a villager

[Alisae]

making town get lost in meaningless mechanical discussion that goes nowhere is one of scumtisi's favourite past times and i would probably entertain your ideas if i were scum here

no
not vs me
and not with what you've posted so far

also this isn't meaningless and this doesn't get us nowhere

no, i think it is

which is exactly why it would be very fun to pretend like i cared about it if i were scum

I think at worst scum!Datisi is calling this meaningless and gets it nowhere to play to an audience.
At best, town!Datisi does not want to practice critical thinking.

[Alisae]

please tell me you aren't in this camp:

yes i am

Please just call him a lurker and don't tell me that him not posting is a reaction.

Just for my sanity, please.

THEY'RE A WOLF

[Alisae]

alisae, i gave you opportunities to explain to me how this solves the game past you transcending us mortals and having perfect insight into mod's brain

i don't appreciate being insulted like that for not agreeing with your worldview

I'm not giving more than I already have for you to tell your wolf buddy how to navigate this

[Alisae]

I don't see how I insulted you, I just think you're a wolf in this game.

[Alisae]

you insulted him because you said if he's town then he is not practicing critical thought.

Is saying that they're not thinking an insult?
I'm attacking the play. The play looks closedminded.

[Alisae]

not trying to attack the person

[Alisae]

I think my point with the post was that I really don't see that angle. I believe Datisi does critically think so when I just see what is essentially "no you're stupid, this is meaningless and goes nowhere" I just see that without how we got there. It feels like they're just shutting me down and refusing to show any consideration into opening that box and trying to see at my level.

I don't really know what else to think cause if they are thinking critically, I don't see it right now, and I think they could do a better job at showing that.

If I'm wrong and Datisi can show me how they can think this is meaningless and goes nowhere by bringing themselves down to my level and arguing on that front WHILE ALSO being able to prove that they're a villager I'll apologize.

[Alisae]

but otherwise this just looks like Datisi is just using his view to shit down on me which I think is more likely to come from a wolf than a villager

[Alisae]

shutting me down and refusing to show any consideration into opening that box

i literally went along your plan and claimed whether i'm informed, AND i asked you MULTIPLE TIMES to explain to me how the fuck do you plan to do this, in a way that doesn't involve mod guessing

but yeah sure

I have expectations on what I think the game looks like and I want to see if that lines up with what I think is reality.
I don't want to comment on this anymore until it's done.

like i literally didn't even tell anyone else to not claim! i am doing nothing to stop you from asking other people to claim! i'm just saying this plan is not going to work and i feel like you're using my thoughts for pushing me in bad faith!

Okay ya...I think I get your angle here if you're a villager. I think if you're a villager you probably just don't know where I'm going with this? Maybe you haven't thought it through. I would encourage you to ponder this a bit and like try to create setups in your mind of what a game like this could possibly look like.

I think it is pretty unfair of me to say you aren't critically thinking you are a villager given this post because you are cooperating to a degree. Sorry, I think I could do a better job at trying to listen to you.

I don't see you as a villager in this game, I think you're a wolf. I think what you've posted in this game is pretty convenient to come from you as a wolf.

[Alisae]

I’ll claim in full just to make things easier
Informed JOAT w/ w messenger shots and 2 fruit vendor shots.
I’m informed that if someone can perform a misc action, they have my role. So not only is this the JOAT shots but ALSO they are informed.
It’s the kind of role one looks at in this context and can easily go “yep, both wolves have this role” and I think writing said conclusion off entirely because my pm states that just because many exist with my role but it’s not necessary the same alignment is naive. Just considering the pov of a designer here and I can see someone wanting to design a game of this nature and call it complex.

so I had to look up what a messenger is.

So apparently Lisa got a PR that tells them something about the setup. I'm going out on a limb there and say that that's likely something a mod gives to scum. They are supposed to be informed and if the setup is a bit weird, might as well tell them. I don't quite understand how and what and honestly I don't care, but this is something I do not expect on a town role.

So a messenger gets to send a message to a player via the mod! I've had some of my most fun games as scum with that role. It's brilliant. Don't care much about the fruit vendors, they are w/e.

But this is such a scum role to claim. The hell?

okay so like
i'm town

and also there are more players that are informed joats (2-shot fruit vendor, 2-shot messenger)
my role tells me this...

[Alisae]

I WILL SAY I AGREE WITH YOU
This role can definitely be given to a wolf! Which is why I think there are wolves that have this role pm!

The informed point as well, I imagine 1 wolf can be told that a player is informed of what I know.
I can also imagine the other wolf role is the exact same thing but instead of being told that they're given some information about the setup. This is the only anti-town reason I can think of for suggesting said massclaim and I feel like the pros outweigh the cons.

Like idunno I just think the potential for 2 wolves to have my exact rolecard is very high. Give it a bunch of villagers as well as wolves and you have yourself an idea for a mafia game!

[Alisae]

Alisae, do you think your joat role is the only non vanilla role in the game? I'm of the thought that massclaiming in general is bad, and your plan seems like it would nicely narrow the possibilities down for finding people who potentially have more useful roles.

It's possible it's not the only non-vanilla role in the game! This is the only con I can see to this but I feel like it's still +EV regardless.

[Alisae]

Even if you assume that both scum have the role, there is just enough ambiguity, that the scum could do a 1 claim it and 1 doesn't claim, and the final numbers are still falling in your realm of "possible"

You get it, and I feel like I can identify if they're doing this.
I don't see a reason why both wolves can't have the role tho. If anything, giving the role to both of them gives them the option of deciding which one claims it, which one doesn't claim it. It also gives them the option to not claim at all or claim both. So I think both wolves have the role because it just gives them more options.

I'm with you on your hunt to find bad guys. I think this helps us find bad guys. Seems +EV to me.

[Alisae]

I think that the mass claim on this feels like a day 2 activity personally

deal

[Alisae]

Wavelength do you have a read on Datisi?

[Alisae]

Alisae, do you think your joat role is the only non vanilla role in the game? I'm of the thought that massclaiming in general is bad, and your plan seems like it would nicely narrow the possibilities down for finding people who potentially have more useful roles.

It's possible it's not the only non-vanilla role in the game! This is the only con I can see to this but I feel like it's still +EV regardless.

I am no game designer but think it's more than just possible, I think it's almost certain. Your role has zero ability to confirm anything about anyone. You could send me a message saying "hi it's Alisae, I am town" but I have no more reason to believe it than from you saying it here. There's got to be something that actually helps with finding scum, game is way too scumsided otherwise.

Yes! All Normals have at least 1 Village Power Role that does something to help village! This is common knowledge

[Alisae]

There is one more thing I would like to point out about my Joat abilities.

Functionally, they do the same thing.
I can attach a piece of fruit to the message and send someone my reads over night like a will.
Or I can just send someone a piece of fruit.

The messenger is just so clearly transparently better than the Fruit Vendor here which really sells this idea that both wolves have this role to me. There's just a lot of opportunities and a lot more options are allowed to be explored that way if both wolves have my role.

[Alisae]

Ari what’s ur fav fruit

[Alisae]

I took a nap for 7 hours cuz before that i ended up going to sleep early and waking up around like my 5-6am
I am surprised and not surprised that we are still on the same page tbh

[Alisae]

My read on the game right now is Datisi wolf and I don't think Datisi votes Herta the way they do if they're w/w.
I empathize w/ people who want to use their vote to sort Herta but that's not me right now and even if it was me I don't mind waiting a couple of days before I have to inevitably go there due to how much easier it is just go there over trying to get someone active's head today. ig I can go there if I can see Datisi' innocence some time during the day.

I do think that they just skimmed this page, saw the informed stuff, and then decided to add to that. I think his post is pretty self-evident that he just skimmed this page > actually reading what's going on and keeping along I think.

[Alisae]

strawberries

strawberries are super good

[Alisae]

Do we speed lim the slot to avoid the mod having to find a replacement lmao

Do you care about it flipping town?
There's a chance it does but who knows

[Alisae]

If killing it right now is really what to do I will support you

[Alisae]

what you want to do*

[Alisae]

I'm not super thrilled about it ending day on Herta but I can understand why people would want to do that. I would say my questions to you are more so help you figure out what it is exactly you want to do.

Within the context of the game I see you as a generally villagery player so I'm basically treating your perspective as what village wants and using that to help me with my own reads.

I still stand by everything I said in 372 but I wouldn't call any of these like good reasons I think they're liable to be wrong.

[Alisae]

So am I the only villager with my role?

[Alisae]

i honestly did not think of that possibility...

[Alisae]

Welcome Gimli!

[Alisae]

can't wait to let Gimli cook!

[Alisae]

not posting anything is kind of scum indicative for him.

Is this based on anything?

[Alisae]

not posting anything is kind of scum indicative for him.

Is this based on anything?

When I read this post it makes me think ur trying to sell a meta read

[Alisae]

Ari and Ali, you both missed a perfect opportunity to tell gimli we were mass claiming if we were an informed role, and asking him to answer right as he repped in. smh.

But he has made it clear that he has read Herta's iso, so that ship has sailed.

I thought we were going to leave it for d2 so I just didn't LOL

I think that the mass claim on this feels like a day 2 activity personally

deal

[Alisae]

Mykonian do you have like, a worldview?

[Alisae]

I would really like to hear you talk about other slots that aren't Aureal

[Alisae]

I feel the most good about Datisi being a wolf ya

[Alisae]

Myko I am very curious on if you have a read on Andante

[Alisae]

Andante feels like a idunno if that's just me

[Alisae]

I feel the most good about Datisi being a wolf ya

can you give me a concise explanation for why i am a wolf this game, considering most of the things you accused me of got shown false

How did it get shown false again

[Alisae]

Myko I am very curious on if you have a read on Andante

Mostly ok, doesn't post as much as I feared.

So you might want more votes on datisi, yes? A one vote wagon is a bit lame. Who could join you?

I'm sorry I don't get the question or your point, are you trying to make me come to the conclusion that I'm vanity voting?
I think there are some slots that probably still need to react.

[Alisae]

you claimed i was not thinking critically and that i was a wolf trying to shut you down from doing this uber amazing strategy

i think ari explained that that's simply not how i view setups (and multiple people agreed with me!!) and i pointed out that i did literally nothing to stop you from the massclaim and even did my part

so what other arguments do you have

WELL
- Your positions could come from a wolf I think your vote on herta is likely to come from a wolf
- You seem like you're playing to an audience
- I don't think you ever addressed my point of that I feel like you were basically just trying to make me look as stupid as possible. This is how I interpret you telling me that you think what I am doing is meaningless and goes no where. I actually think you're killing 2 birds with one stone by going along with it while also saying that it's stupid and pointless. If you're a wolf you like going along with it and you can make me look bad by saying it's stupid and pointless and don't read into mod kekw

[Alisae]

If it lasts, yes.

So how do you avoid that. There's a bunch of people not really tied to their vote. Who are you getting on your wagon and how?

I haven't really consider who and how I just presented the read and I want to see how people react to it.
How is this a productive line of questioning?

[Alisae]

Datisi, how has anything that happened a waste of time btw?

[Alisae]

this feels like outguessing the mod, and considering you spelled out what you are looking for wrt wolves in the massclaim - a complete waste of time.

This is the post it all started from.
Game exploded. It will probably make D1 super readable when looking at it from D3 or D4.
So like how has any of what happened a waste of time?

Even if you think that my idea is bad, was what happened as a result of said discussion a waste of time?

[Alisae]

I think we can agree that Wavelength is pretty townie.
They hold a similar viewpoint to you.
Look how they address me.

2? I think 2 would be the bare minimum.
3? Sounds about right
4? A little bit too much
5? Way too much but possible if both are wolves

This makes me feel like the mass claim would not be as helpful as you think that it would be.

Even if you assume that both scum have the role, there is just enough ambiguity, that the scum could do a 1 claim it and 1 doesn't claim, and the final numbers are still falling in your realm of "possible"

I also am not sure that I agree with the premise, and think that if I were designing a game around that role I would only give it to one scum That role looks like Spicy Vanilla. A Villager/Goon, but with a fun provable name.

So unless you are operating under the assumption that this game is mountainous + Spicy Villagers/Goons, then my expectation would actually be 1 Spicy Goon, and 1 scum PM. And then a couple Spicy villagers +

redacted

And suddenly this mass claim helps the scum team find the redacted.

Engages with my arguments, sees eye to eye with me. Touches on what I see with the 1 claim it 1 don't claim it. Maybe I did a poor job at communicating it, but if they did this I think it we would be able to identify it and I feel like we would have been able to use said information to help us refine reads especially once we get 1 wolf down the line. How I thought of it I thought it could only help us. I think there was like an open setup where there was like 1 wolf in a group of 4 and the other in a group of 5 and I thought we were in a similar situation.

OP says they disagree with the premise, I argue that giving the role to both wolves makes them more flexible in what it is they're allowed to do as it's basically just a glorified goon. Obviously I mentioned why I feel like the powers support this and also why the informed aspect of the role also supports this.

I feel like Datisi's response to reading your suggestion seemed fairly in line with my own: Your base assumption that both scum would JOATs seems overly presumptuous. And the information that you would get from it seems like it would leave a fair bit of ambiguity.

From where I was sitting your scum read on him seemed to stem mostly from a place of : Datisi and I are thinking about this differently, and I think that that difference is because of us having different alignments.

While I think that it is town indicative for you that you came to that conclusion, the argument is not particularly convincing to me, given my thought about the mass claim were actually closer to Datisi's thoughts then yours.

Tries to see eye to eye with me while also disagreeing. Bringing themselves down to my level.

[Alisae]

And then this is Datisi

this feels like outguessing the mod, and considering you spelled out what you are looking for wrt wolves in the massclaim - a complete waste of time.

alright, let's dance

VOTE: alisae

i have designed many normals, and i am notorious for "please don't setup spec, this is a datisi game, god knows what he put in it" - i know mods throw curveballs that you cannot reasonably expect. which is exactly the mindset from which i'm approaching this.

nothing about your role seems "both wolves need to have this role". it's a nothingburger role. and IF, EVEN IF you are correct that all wolves have that role (which you don't necessarily have to be correct about, but for the sake of argument) - what sense does it make that wolves are just gonna claim that role?? "they can't hide" they can just not claim it???

like. if you had gone "btw guys does anyone else have role xyz" and then once people claimed or not claimed, you went "ackchually, i think scum is within people that have this role", i could buy it as a thought process.

but you're telling me that i'm supposed to look at you saying "i have a mystery role, which like i'm totally sure all wolves also have, and also can we claim who all has this role now that i've said it because i think wolves are gonna be honest about their roles" and NOT think it's bullshit?

roles have purposes in setups

the person who sometimes uses roles whose sole purpose is to fuck with the players is telling you to not outguess the mod? amazing. incredible. who would've thought.

i am trying to critically think about things. but unless you explain to me why scum would or wouldn't have the role you claimed, without it being the vague ~oooh mod wouldn't put this in game~ i'm gonna think you're making it up

ANOTHER PLAYER IN THE GAME CAN LITERALLY CONFIRM THAT I'M TELLING THE TRUTH

i don't think you're lying about your role LMAO

i think the "x number of townies and y number of scum are gonna have this role because i can read the mod's mind" is the part that's made up

making town get lost in meaningless mechanical discussion that goes nowhere is one of scumtisi's favourite past times and i would probably entertain your ideas if i were scum here

making town get lost in meaningless mechanical discussion that goes nowhere is one of scumtisi's favourite past times and i would probably entertain your ideas if i were scum here

no
not vs me
and not with what you've posted so far

also this isn't meaningless and this doesn't get us nowhere

no, i think it is

which is exactly why it would be very fun to pretend like i cared about it if i were scum

"outguessing the mod"
"complete waste of time"
"don't setup spec"
"there could be curveballs!"
(btw I don't know how the fuck you got from this that you think I thought both wolves would claim it. I think my whole point was I was just interested in who did come out with it).
"this role could be made to fuck with you!"
Using Hyperbole to make me look worse
"meaningless mechanical discussion"
"gets us nowhere"
"I would go along with you if I was a wolf"

[Alisae]

Engages with my arguments, sees eye to eye with me.

cool. i'd be doing that as scum. enabling you and drowning the thread.

no, this is NOT me saying that wavelength is scum for doing it.

but your "look, this person is discussing with me about my mech ideas wowee and you're not!" is a bad point. this isn't a place where you teach me about manners, this is a place where you discern alignments. and frankly i find it very weird that you would be taking his posts to be so uber townie because he humoured you. you know better than that, surely.

Obviously first line is wine, doesn't really do much for me.

I think wavelength is pretty townie and I think his body of work speaks to that. I think they're been pretty townie this game. Those parts are a part of that but not really the reason why.
I don't get why you're tying my wavelength read into this. I'm just using him as an example because he's obvious town.

[Alisae]

Datisi, how has anything that happened a waste of time btw?

cool misrep.

your mechanical solving and outguessing the mod would've been a waste of time - that is what i claimed. OBVIOUSLY getting people to take stances on the shitfest we've created isn't a waste of time.

would it have been better to have spent that energy arguing actual reads of the game? probably. would it have happened? i don't know.

but quoting my post where i said "this mechanical discussion is a waste of time" and going "but look at the CONTENT that happened AFTER YOU CALLED IT A WASTE OF TIME, how can you think of it as a waste of time???" is disingenuous as fuck

ok ya that's not fair of me lmfao

[Alisae]

because you showed those posts to be a townie example

unless that was a "wavelength is townie, therefore this reaction is town" in which case why the fuck does his response matter if it was going to be townie no matter what he did

I'm just saying one of them engages in me that is way more likely to come from town there and the other is more likely to come from a wolf

[Alisae]

Well...
considering how convenient it is for you to have that stance?
ya no
I don't think I will

[Alisae]

I think gimli is a villager gnight

[Alisae]

I don’t wanna wake up

[Alisae]

Can I just stay in bed and sleep for a few more hours even tho it’s already 6pm

[Alisae]

@ Ali, you asked me earlier what I wanted, and the answer is now definitively a Gimli elimination.

Definitely?

[Alisae]

VOTE: andante
There lasts posts were ??????
They can claim

[Alisae]

Ari does not feel like she’s engaging w/ the thread as a wolf

[Alisae]

Prior to Gimli voting Ari I don't feel like I can put a finger on what exactly it is Ari has done that came from a wolf

If she's a wolf she's played a super reactionary game

[Alisae]

So I think I'm about to die, probably mean I should claim, so I'm a motion detector, I think it's a pretty cool role, and I would like to detect some motion tonight. por favor

huh

[Alisae]

how does a motion detector make these posts

why would I go back and read people voting me? fuck that. not worth my time. Thus I expect truthful information when I'm here in the moment, not to be lied to then "lol checking to see if you were reading the thread" like why would I? if I really want to dig into me being voted it's just going to annoy me, and the "haha andante e-1" from whoever?? yeah no thanks. vote me out before I care, then it can be "haha andante was town"

VOTE: Klick

AnDaNtE oNlY dOeS nOtHiNg As ScUm

I'm so sick of hearing yall's meta. Stop pretending you have a reason you SR me. You SR me for doing nothing? nice one. I TOLD YALL. I'll be active this weekend. Deadline 3 days? ok so what? by the start of d2 you'll see stuff

@ you people living by my meta, have fun
viewtopic.php?t=88545

anyways, whatever, if yall vote me out before I even have a chance to figure this out, so be it. if I'm scum don't I literally have to have a partner? So how does it make sense to lim me before I make it very clear who they are? you all know I talk a lot regardless of alignment.

I'm just so over reading the exact same thing everytime I look at this game

[Alisae]

"lol kill me im not going to be around"

-> e-1 vote

-> "actually im a PR"

in a 9p

is almost always scum

^^^^^^^^^

[Alisae]

Hello
VOTE: Enchant
lets win

[Alisae]

also I received a basket of fruit last night ty for whoever was so kind ^^

I hope you enjoy your strawberries!

[Alisae]

I think like Datisi/Andante interactions don't look very paired - he begins pushing her at 84 and is the first person on her wagon.



and like this does not look like an s/s interaction:



when Dats does scum theatre it's usually better scripted and designed to distance effectively or make his partner look better - this interaction doesn't really move the needle either way.

with the wagons tied at 3-3;



If Aureal/Andante are not teamed I think it makes a lot of sense for the Aureal wagon to be pushed by Andante's teammate - which only really fits Mykonian in this game state.


Looking at mykonian's iso I think his comments saying that;



is pretty egregious because Andante did become a viable candidate according to the VC but he never really defended her with his read - he just hardpushed Aureal instead and I still don't really understand his reasoning for pushing Aureal.

Note: transcript of the images:

Spoiler:

All images are screenshots of posts in the game, in the desktop view, with the MafSepia theme.

1. post 84 by Datisi

   i don't like putting people in quickhammer ranges on page 4, so here's a vote for someone else that i find vaguely scummy / not towny:
   
   VOTE: andante

2. posts 133 by Datisi, 134 by Andante, 135 by Datisi

   it almost feels like yall were trying to vote me out before I showed back up. get off me

   i don't think you're town lole

   i don't think you're actually trying to read me

3. post 113 by Alianna

   Votecount

   
   

   VC 1-II

   
   
   

   Aureal (3 = E-2):

   Herta, Wavelength, mykonian
   

   Andante (3 = E-2):

   Datisi, Klick, Aristeia
   

   mykonian (1):

   Alisae
   

   Alisae (1):

   Aureal
   

   Wavelength (1):

   Andante
   
   

   With 9 alive, it takes 5 for an execution.

   
   
   

   Deadline:

   (expired on 2023-02-26 00:51:00)
   
   

   Co-mod notes:

   
   - I'm also counting by hand, let me know if there is anything wrong.
   - The combined mod ISO can be found here.
   

4. post 73 by mykonian

   What content of Andante's are you townleaning her for and why?

   Not sure I'm helping anyone if I answer this. For one, it's 3 pages in and Andante is probably the person I feel most confident I can read anyway, so I might as well wait till I'm not leaning one way or another from a handful of posts. There's no pressing need to answer, Andante isn't even being voted so I imagine you all agree she's pretty town. I also don't have to tell the scum who's the obvious town.
   
   That's a lot of words to say that I don't like you and Klick asking about a townread 3 pages in. Go find some baddies. May I suggest Aureal?

General reminder to please provide a transcript for multimedia with embedded text, so that in case some player was somehow only able to access the forum via text only they be still able to play.

Datisi didn't mention Andante after that exchange which makes me think it could be early distancing

[Alisae]

I think the game ends if all of {Myko, Datisi, Gimli die}

[Alisae]

Myko is the one I think could be town in those 3, I much prefer Datisi or Gimli actually.

I can't help but read Gimli going onto Andante and Andante voting them back as theater

[Alisae]

it is too simple to be distancing and Andante didnt look like she understood how to deal with it.

Simple doesn't disprove it though

[Alisae]

I wouldn't read Andante based off of her understanding it or not tbh I don't feel like that's accurate based on the play she showed.
She seemed kinda newbscum tbh?

[Alisae]

well ok but gimli was the one who moved his vote off me to andante first - if hes mafia with andante why doesnt he just keep pushing me with klick/myko's votes on me?

I think it makes super sense for Gimli, who just replaced in, to position and go for the bus on his partner.
Andante also I think reacted how I would have reacted if I was in her position which is to vote Gimli as soon as they got into the thread. Which I believe they did

[Alisae]

I wouldn't read Andante based off of her understanding it or not tbh I don't feel like that's accurate based on the play she showed.
She seemed kinda newbscum tbh?

Datisi is very good at coaching scumtheatre though.

Doesn't mean she'll listen

[Alisae]

My game-winning solve is {Enchant, myko, Alisae}

I think if you look at how Andante responded to my claim it's pretty unlikely that's a reaction that comes from a partner.
If they're my partner I think they just don't engage me on my claim or massclaim.
Idunno I feel like they responded to that like they didn't know what was going on

[Alisae]

I legitimately think the best play for a wolf!Gimli to make in his position would be to bus Andante

[Alisae]

I wouldn't read Andante based off of her understanding it or not tbh I don't feel like that's accurate based on the play she showed.
She seemed kinda newbscum tbh?

Datisi is very good at coaching scumtheatre though.

Idunno they legit went from Andante to me and then back to Herta and never brought up Andante again it just feels fucking weird

[Alisae]

I legitimately think the best play for a wolf!Gimli to make in his position would be to bus Andante

I genuinely think wolf!Gimli can't make endgame otherwise.
there's also another juicy read I posted that I think Gimli would definitely take note of and would try to abuse if he is a wolf which is!!!!!! (wait for it)

[Alisae]

actually nvm its junk

[Alisae]

I still believe that the best play for a wolf!Gimli to make in that situation is to bus

[Alisae]

Like I've studied lots and lots of strategical bussing in my days and Gimli going onto Andante just seems like a really good strategical bus from where I'm sitting.

[Alisae]

Explain this reaction then

and 1 sec, alisae? why did you claim? it's day 1, game just started

and 1 sec, alisae? why did you claim? it's day 1, game just started

I softed a bunch and thought might as well claim in full to make it easier for those who don't understand to be able to understand.
I feel like the only reason why my role exists is because wolves both have my role and I feel like now that the game has developed a little bit, let's maybe introduce this part of the puzzle and see what happens next.

hmmm interesting, I honestly keep forgetting this game is so small, so I guess it doesn't really matter, probably searching for 2 scum, I don't feel like scum does this so early, so you're probably town, hmm this might actually be an easy solve.

myko and aureal are like never partners with each other

klick seems very different this game and not in a good way (he was town last game)

dats/ari, idk how to ever read these 2, I don't think I've read like any posts from them this game that stood out

and I'm missing 2 that I just can't even recall are here

[Alisae]

I imagine if Andante is a wolf she just doesn't interact with me that way?

[Alisae]

I also feel like I specifically enabled the Andante wagon to happen with my vote.
I don't think Andante dies if not for my vote tbh but I could be wrong and you could easily just say I bussed regardless tbh

[Alisae]

I know that's what you're saying but I don't see the why

to me it seemed like she genuinely did not know what was happening in the game. It seemed confused.
Do you think my newb!wolf partner reacts confused to a plan I suggest? I'd probably expect them to nod their heads and be like "yep we should do this" immediately or something

[Alisae]

To clarify my position I don't think you're particularly likely scum but I don't have you cleared like I do a good chunk of the players left
Part of that is because I expect quite a lot from you as scum

tbh this is an irrelevant argument game is over

[Alisae]

I want to get Enchant today ya

[Alisae]

So I think I'm about to die, probably mean I should claim, so I'm a motion detector, I think it's a pretty cool role, and I would like to detect some motion tonight. por favor

I think i know why Andante claimed Motion Detector.

why

[Alisae]

Alisae if you help me with myko today I will help you with Enchant tommorrow if the game is not over

Consider me there

[Alisae]

I think both mafia members are JOATs and Andante CCing Ali would be inconvient.

I think by andante's play she was always lined up to claim vanilla and I think if she claimed anything else BUT vanilla she dies.

[Alisae]

Like I think with the posts she made, the ones I pointed out before Ari hammered, I don't think she can claim it.

[Alisae]

like if she CCs me I think Andante dies on the spot

[Alisae]

I'll go a step further and say Myko and Enchant can claim