Micro 1071: MafiaInFreezer v2023 (Game Over)

[Kilgamayan]

i am above such petty early wagons

YEET ALL LIARS VOTE: Ydrasse

[Kilgamayan]

VOTE: syry

Be town by page ten or die

Threatening Syr with a good time! That's a bold move, Cotton.

[Kilgamayan]

You're all cowards for not putting cakez at E-1 on page 1

I considered doing it but was too worried someone else would have the same idea as me and whoever posted second would somehow miss that the first person posted.

[Kilgamayan]

UNVOTE: Ydrasse

Of all the presences in the thread so far, VOTE: Wavelength sticks in my mind the least by a fair amount.

Feels like !science is trying to push continued beginning-of-day-1 jokiness a little harder and a little longer than everyone else. Would be willing to vote there too.

[Kilgamayan]

The lacking substance felt more viscerally bad than continued ED1 silliness. To be clear, it wasn't a matter of "find the person with the fewest posts and vote for that person", it was a matter of going through the player list in my head and doing a mental exercise of "X is playing, and this is what I remember feeling from their posts" for each player. Wavelength was the only player where the result was "I don't remember anything this person did and I don't remember feeling any sort of thing about this person", and those types of slots tend to be red, in my experience playing the Mafiers.

[Kilgamayan]

It may surprise you that I also subscribe to not being a huge fan of Day 1 lurker votes! If my vote is still there for the same reasons when we're a lot closer to the end of the day, I'll be at least as worried about it as you appear to be. But, to me, that's a concern for then; right now, I'm willing to give !science a little bit of slack to see if the behavior changes, I actively feel varying degrees of good about everyone else, and it's still early on Day 1, so my vote is where it is.

Also, you were going through a mental exercise of the player list in your head on Page 3?

Yes, actually. With the way my personal schedule works, I am able to briefly peruse the game thread from time to time during the daytime, but actual posting windows come later, once work is over for the day and there's a lull in domestic responsibilities. The exercise in question was me checking up on my memories once I hit a posting window. I reached the conclusion I did, found that nothing had meaningfully changed since my last brief perusal session, and so I voted accordingly.

[Kilgamayan]

It may surprise you that I also subscribe to not being a huge fan of Day 1 lurker votes! If my vote is still there for the same reasons when we're a lot closer to the end of the day, I'll be at least as worried about it as you appear to be. But, to me, that's a concern for then; right now, I'm willing to give !science a little bit of slack to see if the behavior changes, I actively feel varying degrees of good about everyone else, and it's still early on Day 1, so my vote is where it is.

Also, you were going through a mental exercise of the player list in your head on Page 3?

Yes, actually. With the way my personal schedule works, I am able to briefly peruse the game thread from time to time during the daytime, but actual posting windows come later, once work is over for the day and there's a lull in domestic responsibilities. The exercise in question was me checking up on my memories once I hit a posting window. I reached the conclusion I did, found that nothing had meaningfully changed since my last brief perusal session, and so I voted accordingly.

If we voted Wavelength to e-1 right now, would you unvote them?

No. I have sufficient faith that a hypothetical town-on-town quickhammer would not come to pass, and all of the other results are beneficial long term.

[Kilgamayan]

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you asking me why voting for someone Early Day 1 for Early Day 1 reasons is different from voting for someone Late Day 1 for Early Day 1 reasons? If that's not what you're asking, can you clarify what you are asking so I can answer you better?

[Kilgamayan]

Oh, a distinction should probably be made between "player that doesn't post very much" and "player who lacks meaningful presence". I had the former in mind with my Day 1 Lurker Votes comment. My vote for Wavelength is for the latter reason.

[Kilgamayan]

Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, are you asking me why voting for someone Early Day 1 for Early Day 1 reasons is different from voting for someone Late Day 1 for Early Day 1 reasons? If that's not what you're asking, can you clarify what you are asking so I can answer you better?

You are willing to vote them out now, I am wondering why it is different if they are run up now or if nothing happens and you vote for somebody else later.

I'm still not entirely sure I understand what you're asking here, but I think your line of questioning can be generally answered by me saying that I believe any vote is better than no vote. A vote is a tangible committal to an opinion.

Oh, a distinction should probably be made between "player that doesn't post very much" and "player who lacks meaningful presence". I had the former in mind with my Day 1 Lurker Votes comment. My vote for Wavelength is for the latter reason.

As Wavelength points out; what is up with the first half of your post 106 then? You don't seem to be making that distinction there.

Because I already made it in 103. Why would I make it again three posts later?

[Kilgamayan]

Like, if you disagree with the logic of 103, that's one thing. That can be discussed to a degree, even though I suspect that would eventually boil down to playstyle differences. But acting like 103 didn't happen at all is another matter entirely. Don't just buy into wordless reaction images because they're clever or something.

[Kilgamayan]

See even Syr agrees with-

...

hey wait

[Kilgamayan]

Okay, I see where the disconnect is coming from now. Looks like it was a combination of thinking something was clearly implied when it actually wasn't and/or at least one good-ol'-fashioned ADHD Jump. I guess the best I can do is try to explain the overall thought process.

The stuff peta talks about in in the second paragraph of 105 is something that rings true for me as well empirically. I've been red in games where I've employed exactly that strategy near the end of the day, highlighting someone that isn't terribly relevant and hasn't done a whole lot and pushing them as the better bet ahead of whatever more-informative competing wagons are present at the time. I've been green in games where I saw other players employ exactly that strategy and called them Mafia for it and eventually turned out to be correct by the time all was said and done. It's something I always watch for because of the frequency with which it happens. (I don't know for sure if I need to state here that, in most cases, the main/arguably only worth in Day 1 wagons is looking at them on Day 2 with flip info in hand and analyzing who moved where and when, but just to be safe, there it is, and that's why distracting away from those wagons with a mad dash to a low volume/low presence slot at the very end is Red Behavior.)

But that's a lot of personal backstory and play philosophy that just got assumed and not vocalized, so.

Ultimately, that's where a lot of the top of 106 is coming from. The rest is coming from the idea that having a Late Day 1 vote for Early Day 1 reasons would be particularly worrying (to the point of being suspicious) because it implies the voter has seen nothing since Early Day 1 that's voteworthy by the end of Day 1. (This is part of the reason for my question in 117.)

So:

- Late Day 1 votes cast for people with low Day 1 post volume specifically because they have low Day 1 post volume (and independent of meaningful presence) = bad due to (a) denying wagon analysis info and (b) implying the voter can't make a meaningful case from the culmination of Day 1's content, toss it off the island
- Late Day 1 votes cast for people with low meaningful Day 1 presence specifically because they have low meaningful Day 1 presence = bad due to (a) and (b), toss it off the island
- Early Day 1 votes cast for people with low meaningful Day 1 presence specifically because they have low meaningful Day 1 presences = not ideal, but missing major problems (a) and (b) present in casting those same votes Late Day 1, plus Early Day 1 votes/cases suck by default anyway, plus any vote is better than no vote, ergo acceptable behavior (IMO) when lacking better options

I imagine even this is insufficient explanation but I needed to be in bed already so unfortunately I'm stopping here from now and picking up again tomorrow when able.

It’s almost like when you’re searching for a recipe online and they have this whole spiel about how they learned to make it that’s wholly unnecessary to the recipe to try and embellish and make it better than it is

Because you specifically will appreciate this: This is a direct result of playing a text adventure starring Iku Nagae back in 2010/2011. I made an active effort to make my serious writing/speech extra formal and verbose for RP purposes and then found after that game that it had just sort of stuck without my intending it to. I've had an exceedingly difficult time shaking it in the decade-plus since. So, apologies, but it's Touhou's fault.

[Kilgamayan]

Uh oh it's bedpost (lol get it) time

UNVOTE: Wavelength

Don't feel remotely comfortable leaving that there. The actual verbal posting comes across very much like a townie that feels they're on to something.

VOTE: Ydrasse

Looking back on it now, post 134's content and timing doesn't square at all with what appears to be a serious vote for me in 35. There was more to talk about regarding me by the time 134 rolled around - why not spend any time chiming in on it when you're already voting me?

[Kilgamayan]

Uh oh it's bedpost (lol get it) time

UNVOTE: Wavelength

Don't feel remotely comfortable leaving that there. The actual verbal posting comes across very much like a townie that feels they're on to something.

VOTE: Ydrasse

Looking back on it now, post 134's content and timing doesn't square at all with what appears to be a serious vote for me in 35. There was more to talk about regarding me by the time 134 rolled around - why not spend any time chiming in on it when you're already voting me?

i barely paid attention to this game so far and the cakez thing was the most recent posting

This implies that you didn't care about the state of your vote, which is Townless Behavior

Like I can understand and appreciate not having much time to play but I feel like a town player in your slot would be prioritizing "hey, that person I placed a serious (or at least semi-serious) vote on has been tussling with some other peeps, what's up with that" over responding to someone completely unrelated to your serious (or at least semi-serious) vote

[Kilgamayan]

Cakez if you are town you should probably focus on casing !science like you said you were going to because the longer you spend responding to new posts instead of casing !science the more it looks like you're struggling to case !science

Normally I wouldn't post something as explicit as this but it's been long enough that even now producing a case against !science is not going to make me discount that it took at least this long to get there

[Kilgamayan]

Small post windows are small! I can only get so much Mafiers out while on the clock, and usually that's zero Mafiers. I'll at least say that my kneejerk reaction to your post about me was "bruh" but I have the time to do a little more than that right now, so.

[Kilgamayan]

Please don't hammer me without letting me claim ty

Why on Earth was this a concern with seven reality days still left to go in the game day ?_? I realize my game is eternally stuck in 2009 but between Dunn's question earlier and now this I'm beginning to feel like I missed a major meta update where people are now routinely voted off the island early in a game day when not much of consequence has happened to that point

I have no real way to respond to most of 223 because most of it is just flat out "I don't believe this is true". I can say that 34 was honest and 167 was a genuine explanation of my thought process. But that's it, and that doesn't mean anything to anyone else unless there's some sort of Lie Detector variant out there that can verify it, and that seems unlikely to the point of not being worth considering.

Uh oh it's bedpost (lol get it) time

UNVOTE: Wavelength

Don't feel remotely comfortable leaving that there. The actual verbal posting comes across very much like a townie that feels they're on to something.

VOTE: Ydrasse

Looking back on it now, post 134's content and timing doesn't square at all with what appears to be a serious vote for me in 35. There was more to talk about regarding me by the time 134 rolled around - why not spend any time chiming in on it when you're already voting me?

And then they bail out on it and go for this Ydra vote which to me sounds like they had to dig back through the thread and find something else to scumread to keep up appearances and give them a reason to bail on Wavelength

Do you have concerns with the actual stated merits of my Wavelength unvote and/or my Ydrasse vote? Because those we can at least discuss. Otherwise, this is simply ascribing motives to me that aren't true but I can't definitively prove aren't true until I flip green or the game ends. :shrug:

[Kilgamayan]

I really am a fossil, crimony

[Kilgamayan]

i read
wolves are in cakez/syr/kilga

feel as if syr is trying to walk a fine line between the two and kind of walk people through the game holding hands
while being like well this could come from x town right (said abt cakez)
cakez is just not posting well which is lazy exposition but 133 doesn’t feel like townie mentality
kilga is getting lost in the weeds and at times i feel confused by his posts but i think some of that is on my comprehension so

i’d probably vote there last of the three

(nothing about syr or kilga)

(nothing about syr or kilga)

(nothing about syr or kilga)

(nothing about syr or kilga)

(nothing about syr or kilga)

(nothing about syr)

still inclined to vote kilga

VOTE: Ydrasse

[Kilgamayan]

so do u think im partnered with syr : ?

i feel as if ive expressed more of a wolfread on u/through my actions this game than syr so this should not be a surprise but youre leaving the implication vague.
i also dont really know what about my lack of posting abt you two does to undermine my previously given reads
youve done nothing to change it nor warrant avoiding a vote

Basically, between the stuff I mentioned yesterday and what I quoted there, I don't think you're paying attention to your own stated suspicions. Like, yes, you've been Unpleased with me for most of the game, but you went from a statement of "i’d probably vote (kilga) last of (cakez, syr, kilga)" to restating a desire to vote for me without any mention of what happened to your Syr read in the meantime.

I do think you and Syr is certainly possible as the solution given the above and a general feeling from how I think the Mafia team would have approached the Cakez situation post-claim, but I'm not yet as sold on Syr as I am on you.

[Kilgamayan]

do you think me not paying attention is a wolfy trait
like do you think im just being careless with my play

I think that townies, by virtue of being genuine in their wolfhunting, will actually have the opinions that they claim to have and believe the things they say and be consistent about it as a result, where wolves, by virtue of not being genuine in their wolfhunting, will be far more prone to either forgetting the things they said previously or simply not caring about being consistent as long as they can say whatever they need to in order to survive.

my reasons to wolfread you were the ones i remembered more because i voted you most of yesterday, syr is still there and also on the wagon so like points there but me wanting to kill you is just falling back on where i voted all d1

You apparently felt unconfident enough in your vote to remove it in 187, though, which makes sense in the context of the immediate followup where you put me behind Cakez and Syr but

doesn't

make sense now in that you're "still inclined to vote" me but have nothing to say about Syr (or even me, beyond the statement that you're still inclined to vote for me). Under the assumption that your wolfhunting is genuine, either Syr is equal to or ahead of me on your list and you're pursuing your tied-for-first/second target while not doing anything to pursue your tied-for-first/outright first, or I'm ahead of Syr and the ordering in 188 is a lie, making the unvote in 187 extra strange. Neither of these seem likely at all, which means the only conclusion I can reach is that the assumption that your wolfhunting is genuine must be faulty, at which point we go back to my previous paragraph.

[Kilgamayan]

At the risk of seeming cold and uncaring, I'm taking the last page and a half as NAI for everyone involved. The claim is noted, but that's it. Any further commentary seems beyond the scope of the game and better suited for postgame, where everyone can trust that everyone else is coming from an honest, well-wishing place.

Ydra: I can ask a few questions, then, if it'll help you sort out where I'm coming from.

- Can you explain the evolution of your stance on Syr? He went from a Top 2 suspicion in 188 to not being mentioned at all in 307 to being a proposed wolf buddy with me in 325. Why did these changes happen?
- Can you explain your current desire to vote for me? Is it still only Early Day 1 stuff? If not, how has it evolved?
- Can you explain where you stand on !science and Dunnstral at the moment? You seemed interested in pursuing one or both of them in 307 but either of them being a wolf is logically incongruous with the idea of a Kilga/Syr wolf team unless the roles are so madness that we're in 4T/3W today

and

a misyeet is somehow not the end of the game.

[Kilgamayan]

At the risk of seeming cold and uncaring, I'm taking the last page and a half as NAI for everyone involved. The claim is noted, but that's it. Any further commentary seems beyond the scope of the game and better suited for postgame, where everyone can trust that everyone else is coming from an honest, well-wishing place.

That is correct as far as I go but I still had stance I took and you can evaluate me on those

Of course. I actually don't disagree with the core point about the switch to Wavelength; it is, in fact, something I myself have dabbled with in the past as a wolf. I also agree with the loose playstyle assessment - there's very little in LLD's iso that I would qualify as explained justifications for statements made and actions taken. The main thing staying my hand is that I don't know if this is indicative of Wolf LLD ahead of Town LLD that wanted to kick back and have some casual Mafia fun with friends.

[Kilgamayan]

Well.

On non-Ydrasse matters:

- I would be willing to vote for LLD due to generally lacking discussable explanations for stances throughout the game. Beyond that, I'd actually be willing to catboi as well, who my brain has sort of filed as LLD Lite. There's more meaningful content there but nothing about it stands out as clearly coming from town.
- I'm going to need the on Dunnstral explained to me, because I don't see it at present. The presentation of 276 looks basically the same as the presentation of 115, and generally Dunn has come across as being actively investigative and efforted in an honest way.
- Syr and !science I'm comfortable dunking into the Town Bin barring something cataclysmic coming to light.

[Kilgamayan]

Apologies that I wasn't able to get to this today. I'll do my best to get something out in roughly 6-8 hours.

[Kilgamayan]

Ydra 420 (nice): Okay, but you do realize that all of that it is a simple way for Wolf Ydra to wave off accountability for anything, right?

catboi 425: Townies should not

need

to be asked to state why they do things, they should be stating why they do things proactively, to help (a) make clear to others that thay're town, and (b) convince others their ideas are correct. What's the point of solving correctly if no one listens to you and you end up getting tossed overboard? Postgame pride once your faction loses? That's not the goal of the game, the goal of the game is to be on the winning team.

It's also worth taking my opinions in the context of "there are six not-me people remaining and three of them I'm pretty solidly town on". On a personal level, I sympathize with being stuck in the POE crosshairs, but on the level of wanting to win, that's the reality.

Syr 432: I've generally felt your play today to be clearly Town play. You've taken agreeable stances with agreeable justifications, and, at the risk of picking at possibly-fresh wounds, 380 was a question I liked in particular.

[Kilgamayan]

kilga why didn’t you say anything about the bottom half of that post

My apologies, I read it in a half-asleep daze in bed on my phone and by the time I got to my computer to post I misremembered that the whole thing wasn't just the first half.

That being said, I'm having a hard time reconciling the rest of your post as a town response to 407. I will grant that you claim to think my questioning is weird, particularly the overexplanation of the third question; I will simply beg forgiveness for all overexplanations going forward, I'm a bit gunshy about underexplanations after Day 1. But the rest of your post

- Doesn't explain the evolution of your stance on Syr, which could have been done independent of your read on me, since I imagine other players would appreciate seeing your stances and their justifications
- Doesn't cite anything about my behavior before 407 that explains your suspicion of me prior to 407, which is really what I was looking for there, because I wanted to know if you were still hanging onto the Early Day 1 stuff or if you had seen more suspicious content from me in the time since
- Doesn't comment on !science or Dunnstral, which could have been done independent of your read on me, since I imagine other players would appreciate seeing your stances and their justifications

Like, I genuinely don't understand how someone that's been honest in their wolfhunting doesn't have answers for those, particularly this far into Day 2. Even gut feelings come from somewhere, whether they're a gradual buildup or a sudden jolt.* What do you think about...I don't know, anything in this game other than 407?

*Maybe catboi or LLD could square this with their better-than-Kilga (former)/town (latter) reads for me?

Aside something of an aside, I object to the claim that I am "townreading/fine with a lot of other people so you have an incredibly small pool you're actually interested in". I feel pretty good about 3 people and feel varying degrees of not pretty good about 3 people. I'll grant that others may think that not being interested in voting for half of the playerlist is "a lot" but it certainly doesn't feel weird to me. Not to mention that I plan on checking everyone for associatives anyway if/when there's a red flip.

You've taken agreeable stances with agreeable justifications

Such as?

338 (The catboi question specifically)
342 (The aggressive stance against blaming !science for the hammer when it would be pretty easy to be wishy-washy)
348 (Obviously I'm biased here but the note about the lack of reevaluation is a particularly good one)
363
364 & 365 (This is less AI since it's more gameplay philosophy but I still think it's a line of thinking more likely to come from a townie than a wolf)
380 as mentioned previously

As a second aside, I will note that I haven't really seen a satisfactory response to my request for someone to explain the Dunnstral case to me. Not holding this against anyone, just indicating that I haven't forgotten about it and am simply still not buying into it.

[Kilgamayan]

A !science push times of all times feels

really

bizarrely timed. If there's reason to vote for him now surely there was reason to vote for him on Tuesday?

[Kilgamayan]

times of all times

*now of all times

[Kilgamayan]

- still think kilga is scummy

Clearly a conclusion drawn from reading my posts carefully, which recently included a question directed at you that you ignored entirely :V

[Kilgamayan]

Still, it feels bizarre to me that on Day 2 of a micro your threshold for being willing to vote someone is "not clearly coming from town"? That doesn't feel like you're...actually trying to solve my alignment or investigate deeper meanings. Similarly, your reasoning for LLD is she "lacks discernible explanations for stances". That doesn't really strike me as a believable tell at all - just because someone isn't explaining their reads it doesn't mean they don't have any, I would sincerely doubt she wouldn't have reasons, regardless of her alignment. But you haven't bothered to actually try and investigate her at all, like possibly asking for explanations, just taken the stance you'd be okay with voting her. That doesn't sit right with me.

Going back to this for a moment. Okay, sure! (Note that my commentary in 435 still applies.)

Like, I genuinely don't understand how someone that's been honest in their wolfhunting doesn't have answers for those, particularly this far into Day 2. Even gut feelings come from somewhere, whether they're a gradual buildup or a sudden jolt.* What do you think about...I don't know, anything in this game other than 407?

*Maybe catboi or LLD could square this with their better-than-Kilga (former)/town (latter) reads for me?

(No indication my question was noticed)

(No indication my question was noticed)

(No indication my question was noticed)

(No indication my question was noticed, but there is at least a comment about continuing to reread stuff I guess?)

(No indication my question was noticed)

(No indication my question was noticed)

(No indication my question was noticed)

- still think kilga is scummy

(No indication my question was noticed (in before "this is a comment about explaining an Ydrasse townread", response is that this is directed at Syr and is also not exactly what I asked about))

Cool

cool cool cool.

[Kilgamayan]

The point of the post was mostly pointing out that catboi had previously gotten on my case about not actively engaging with you more - "But you haven't bothered to actually try and investigate her at all, like possibly asking for explanations, just taken the stance you'd be okay with voting her. That doesn't sit right with me" from 425 specifically - and then also pointing out that both you

and

catboi ignored me when I did exactly that, but catboi still suspects me. It was more about asking catboi what the heckerooni he expects from me and less about anything I'm specifically looking for from you (though I do still want an answer from you to my question - I'll attempt to clarify it in the next post).

Between that and me having to ask Ydrasse multiple times about the tracks her suspicions followed (and

still

not receiving an explanatory answer that shows me that actually, this is a townie's honest thought process and not just a wolf making stuff up) it's getting real frustrating trying to do anything. I will cop to missing part of an Ydrasse post but at least I apologized for doing so and then actually addressed it. All I'm really asking is for the same respect, and given no fewer than three people have gone out of their way to not actually answer at least one question I've asked of them, at least one of them most be town, which is supremely irritating because it implies that ignoring questions directed at you is acceptable town behavior.

[Kilgamayan]

i don't even know what you're asking me

Basically, you think Ydrasse is town. I think Ydrasse is a wolf for repeatedly refusing to explain why she has the suspicions/thought processes she has posted. My request to you was to square that behavior with your town read, e.g. give me a reason to think it's an honest town approach and not a wolf making shit up.

[Kilgamayan]

yes I'm fucking with you, i don't know what elements of her play you consider suspicious here. i know i'm making you do more work than i otherwise usually would but treat me like i'm barely holding on this game lol

Per 486, I think Ydrasse is a wolf for repeatedly refusing to explain why she has the suspicions/thought processes she has posted. Given 489 and 494 have since followed, I suppose this could be modified to "I think Ydrasse is a wolf for being exceedingly vague, to the point of total unhelpfulness, as to why she has the suspicions/thought processes she has posted." 407 is the primary post here from me, if you're looking for a starting point; the questions in that post either were answered with what boils down to "gut, sorry" or not answered at all. I can get into the weeds of why "being exceedingly vague, to the point of total unhelpfulness, as to why one has the suspicions/thought processes one has posted" is Wolf Behavior, but that's largely theorycraft that I don't really want to have to clog the thread with if I can avoid it.

Given there are less than 36 hours remaining before deadline, I suppose I should say that, while I would prefer Ydrasse get chucked off the island, I would be willing to compromise on catboi. I'm not really interested in booting !science - I feel the emotion shown throughout the day is genuine - and would only vote that way if necessary to avoid ending the day without an elimination.

[Kilgamayan]

Kilga what do you think of 524

- I think the bolded paragraph in the first spoiled post is an attempt to dodge my suspicion of her by flinging suspicion right back at me.
- I think the second spoiled post is using one of the themes of Day 1 to avoid having to actually address the meat of what I had to say in 330. The uncertainty surrounding whether or not to vote for me is far more "wolf uncertain how a vote on me will reflect on her"; an honest town would have just cast the vote knowing it (a) was a genuine honest vote, and (b) relatively inconsequential unless it was followed by the same vote from three other people. (Yes, I am aware how Day 1 ended.)
- I think the third spoiled paragraph is continued dodging of answering my questions meaningfully, but I've mentioned that before.

So I vehemently disagree with all of catboi's assessments, and am quite open to the idea that they're willful misreadings.

[Kilgamayan]

yes I'm fucking with you, i don't know what elements of her play you consider suspicious here. i know i'm making you do more work than i otherwise usually would but treat me like i'm barely holding on this game lol

Per 486, I think Ydrasse is a wolf for repeatedly refusing to explain why she has the suspicions/thought processes she has posted. Given 489 and 494 have since followed, I suppose this could be modified to "I think Ydrasse is a wolf for being exceedingly vague, to the point of total unhelpfulness, as to why she has the suspicions/thought processes she has posted." 407 is the primary post here from me, if you're looking for a starting point; the questions in that post either were answered with what boils down to "gut, sorry" or not answered at all. I can get into the weeds of why "being exceedingly vague, to the point of total unhelpfulness, as to why one has the suspicions/thought processes one has posted" is Wolf Behavior, but that's largely theorycraft that I don't really want to have to clog the thread with if I can avoid it.

Given there are less than 36 hours remaining before deadline, I suppose I should say that, while I would prefer Ydrasse get chucked off the island, I would be willing to compromise on catboi. I'm not really interested in booting !science - I feel the emotion shown throughout the day is genuine - and would only vote that way if necessary to avoid ending the day without an elimination.

see i don't actually believe this is genuine whatsoever

"she is scum for not explaining reads" is something I expect scum to push on in, like, a newbie game it's a very

basic

notion of what scum do but isn't particularly grounded in reality

she's playing the game more intuitively rather than being strongly logical and I think it's possible to recognize that some people act that way. she's capable of making up logical sounding arguments as scum and if anything the lack of energy/struggle to articulate is more likelya towntell

but

also

she

has

ventured into explaining her views of the game and it makes sense to me when she has done it so acting like she has not done anything feels uncharitable


so I don't really buy that you're actually looking to sort people here. You're just coming in going "not explain = scum" and that is the behavior I would expect scum to take because it's a very unimaginative line of thought that is easy to push. I don't think you're trying to find scum over looking for things to push

"not explain = wolf" is an oversimplification of my stance on Ydrasse. It's a matter "repeatedly ask, repeatedly get nothing useful". I do recognize that some people play the game intuitively - when those people lay out their intuition in ways that are reasonable to follow, I have no problem unless the layouts don't make sense as coming from a town position.

[Kilgamayan]

ngl any outside attempt to float the narrative that myself vs. catboi can't be TvT when we only have one misyeet to spare makes me

massively

paranoid

[Kilgamayan]

UNVOTE: Ydrasse
VOTE: Syryana

For posterity.

I will not vote for myself for the sake of not playing against my win condition, but I would not hold it against anyone to cast the fourth vote at this point. If my death and flip is enough to show everyone that Syr has overplayed his hand here, that's about all I can ask. If anyone alive on Day 3 intends to vote for catboi using our spat today as justification, please reconsider.

[Kilgamayan]

Pretty sure that's E-1.

Thoughts about anyone else notty?

Catboi? LLD?

Also I'm apparently Syrians now. Thanks Gif.

it's E-2

Ydrasse also voted for me.

[Kilgamayan]

Haha Syr now I'm dead while you have to keep playing Mafia

HOIST BY YOUR OWN PETARD

[Kilgamayan]

I knew I should have properly thanked you for trying to get me out of the game ASAP when you voted for me in 43

Clearly you were looking out for me this whole time <3

[Kilgamayan]

Oh wait that's only three votes

Goddamnit

My post-elimination joke material has been ruined

[Kilgamayan]

Well, this is awkward.

[Kilgamayan]

Don't play this game when you have ADHD, kids. Your brain and memories are the real wolves.

[Kilgamayan]

Okay NOW pretend I said all that stuff in 584.

[Kilgamayan]

Sorry I suck, folks.

[Kilgamayan]

I don't believe that you really though you were hammered above

Serious talk here for a moment though. ADHD sucks, what can I say. I'll own up to the mistake, but I'd appreciate it if you to revisit this comment postgame.

[Kilgamayan]

I don't believe that you really though you were hammered above

Serious talk here for a moment though. ADHD sucks, what can I say. I'll own up to the mistake, but I'd appreciate it if you to revisit this comment postgame.

I apologize if that was insensitive

Don't worry about this, it was a result of a combination of frustration at my impotence and thinking you were town. It was and is my problem to deal with and no one else's.

[Kilgamayan]

Mafia in 2024: "bork is hiding specific posts with specific post numbers to send a coded message that's against site rules!!!"